 The joint admission and matriculation board jam has announced the introduction of computer studies and health education as part of its unified, tertiary, matriculation examinations, the UTME subjects. Recently that released the timetable for the UTME and direct entry registration examinations. Now what this means is that candidates sitting for the UTME could now pick computer studies or physical and held education as part of the four requirements of subjects if they're so desired or dictated by the program of preference. The two subjects in addition to the existing 23 UTME subjects brings a total number of subjects to 25 and expected to commence from the 2022 UTME exercise. Joining us this morning to make sense of all of this is an educational consultant. He is Dr. Peter Ogudoro. It's good to have you join us this morning. It's my pleasure to join you in the show. All right, Dr. Peter Ogudoro, let's share your thoughts on this. What's the implication of having two subjects addict to the curriculum for jam candidates? Well, this has been long overdue. This is a society that is in the 21st century and the base is upon which we live our lives now. I'm surprised that it took them this long to recognize that computer studies is a subject that young people should be examined on, especially for those who want to study computer science and computer engineering. So why haven't you been given the option to have that subject as one of the options you could use to get into university? Physical and health education is also critical because we need to be fit, especially now that we're talking about we are living the era of pandemic. So these are subjects that give young people the opportunity to learn how to eat well, to learn how to exercise their bodies, to learn how to keep fit. So it took too long for us to get to where we are. But thank God they have eventually arrived. Interestingly, having a little first subject is certainly not enough because we have been talking about giving young people the opportunity to acquire skills which they can use to set up their own businesses. We offer several other courses that are not in the UTME list in terms of subjects that young people can sit for. And that's not fair, which should introduce almost all the subjects that WIEC and NECO examine young people up so that they can exercise the discretion and freedom to make their own choices. You've highlighted the importance of these two new subjects of physical education, computer science. And you said it's taken too long to have had these subjects in the JAMC curriculum. What do you think this says about the state of education in Nigeria, that the APEX, tertiary, admission, examination organization of body does not have computer studies, computer studies in 2022 as part of the subjects of examination? I mean, that's, I never thought about that. Why, what does it say about the state of education in Nigeria from a curriculum perspective? Yeah, the problem they have had in the education industry is the burden of bureaucracy. For them to make a change, you have to convene meetings at different levels. The board has to meet as a board, and then hold meetings over several years to agree on that. And when they agree, they now have to make submission to the Federal Minister of Education, who will agree with them, probably send it to National Council of Education, who will and does it, and then they start climbing that again before it gets back to Jam. So that kind of bureaucracy doesn't augur well for the kind of society we want to build. We want to build a Nigel society that is globally competitive. Fortunately, politicians run the education sphere. Most of them didn't study education and do not understand that education is, you know, the beginning point for accelerated development. Fortunately, I find politicians who haven't gone to proper schools running the system and why the professors take instructions from them. And that's obviously not the kind of situation we need to maintain. So I think that the problem they have had is the bureaucracy, which has been very important for introducing reforms in the education system. And not to be able to recognize that this is where development should begin, who will continue to have this kind of challenge. So what becomes of the students or candidates who will be sitting for this examination? You also want to agree with me that, to some extent, you have several schools that don't have the facility, what it takes to educate or lecture the student on computer studies. We're talking about having a practical labs where you can have monitors, you can have the keyboards, you can have the mouse. I remember at a time where I was told to imagine in front of me that I had a monitor and just imagine a student who have not seen a monitor. So what becomes of the student who would have to sit for this examination without having the necessary facilities and what it takes to study this course? Well, this is a case of, you know, have bread being better than none. You have to recognize that before these young people, you know, go to this point where they have the option of computer science. Those who attended, for example, study computer science didn't even have it as one of the options at all. So those people would compare, for example, to go for physics or for chemistry or for biology, which are more difficult options compared to computer science, which they have already started for, and they're probably here one. And we must also put it on the table that the exam they are going to write doesn't require much of practical knowledge. And there is actually a school here that even insists on practical knowledge. And the examination bodies that have given them the WIEC and the NECO results don't do much of practical. So most of what we talk about in Nigeria is just theory. These children get into the hall for UTME and they respond to about 40 multiple-choice questions. No particle is involved of any kind. So it's not... So the practical questions don't come in as practical. They're coming in the questions as questions. I mean, you have to answer them. So they set them as an example in the questions. That's very correct. So they just, you know, maybe they ask you which of the following is an input device. And so they tell you a keyboard. They tell you a cable. They tell you, you know, they tell you a mouse. And I can also, you just select one. So you don't need to... So for a student, my question, my concern here is for a student who does not know what an input device looks like or who's never seen it. How do they now answer the question? You don't need to have seen it to answer the question correctly. You only need to have read it somewhere and then have a good memory to remember. To respond correctly to it. That's the one we have published in Nigeria. Even those who have decreased in engineering and in some sense in medicine, they will tell you, I mean, it's such an industry, they regularly complain to me. Even those who have had a young person who finished with the first class in electrical engineering and who was the best graduate from his department and faculty who confessed to me that most of the things that he knows about engineering are just theoretical knowledge. He's never seen the equipment. Because most of the time, even when National University's commission comes to his university to do accreditation, the university goes out to read the equipment. And once those people are done with the accreditation, they return the equipment to the places they rented them from. So we haven't got it right. We don't know what we're doing as a people. And that's why the algorithm engineer here doesn't do engineering of any kind. He teaches mathematics in university because he hasn't seen the equipment before. Dr. Guduru, for me, looking at and hearing that we're still talking about computer studies in this day and age, it sounds a bit like a cake. Because now we have information technology, we have coding, artificial intelligence, and so on and so forth. Is this the right exam to have in such a day and age? Or are they simply, in your opinion, just tailoring this exam called computer studies to what we have on the ground as far as the curriculum in a secondary system is concerned. So they don't want to do anything outside what we have in a secondary school, do you think? And if that is the case, don't we need to mix things up and upgrade the secondary school curriculum as far as computer science is concerned to reflect the current realities of our world today? You are a better teacher, better educationalist than most of the people running the system from the way we have spoken because listening to you, I can see you have the awareness about how important computer and different technology is in a modern society. Let me tell you this. If you really want to study computer science, you need to go to Nigeria University because it's waste of time, really. What they label for about four years to teach you you will learn from a local ad fit and you learn all of that in only two months. That's how the world works now. So parents who are very smart, they don't waste their children's time sending them to Nigeria University to go and learn computer science. You enroll them in one of the shops in your neighborhood and get people to work with them on one on one. In two months they become people who can create jobs. My son is learning computer programming and in only two months he does better programming than the average Nigerian who was a degree even with first class in computer science. That's the reality of our time and that's very unfortunate for us as a people because even those who have passed through the system gone to university and got a degree in it are actually not able to do anything and those who eventually want to become through experts in computer science after they have n degrees in Nigeria University they know what they do. What they do is to go and enroll in roadside shops and work with those people for only two months and they regret spending four years trying to get what those places couldn't give them. We are not ready as a people in universities wasting everybody's time. They teach in five years we can learn in only one month if for parents who know what to do. Alright, so Dr. Peter, in this case now where we have I mean because of this conversation we have emphasized the need for us to have computer studies in the curriculum and you have rightly also stated that I mean we're very late at this particular one but with this introduction it still seems that the students or candidates still have an option to choose I mean they would have to choose between computer studies or health education don't you think that we would probably just have it where computer studies would have been just a constant? Well this is certainly at this stage it's have bread which is better than none so instead of not coming in at this hour coming in at this hour even though we are not going to get it right because the children are just going to respond to multiple questions which will not prove who knows computer and who does not know it. So if you cram better than John who is able to use computer better than you you will get into university and John won't get in there even though he's the one who has the capacity to be able to use computer well. So that's the area where we need to get it right and I think that we also need to do this to several other subjects in the data processing texts down, they have all those subjects why are we not allowing children to go in you know straight into Jam, UTVE and respond to only the questions. No, no, the question here is why don't we rather make it compulsory that that is actually a constant subject if you have to choose four subjects then you have three plus computer science I mean just like you have English as compulsory mathematics as well computer science should also be constant that's what I'm saying because you would still have people if they have a choice of choosing then they would always have to maybe probably have to choose or go for the health education that's what I'm saying I mean juxtaposing that with the importance of having computer studies in our curriculum just like you've emphasized why don't we make it compulsory then? Yeah, I do not disagree with you on that I completely agree at least it could be a good starting point but let's put this on the table in proper societies in a place like the United Kingdom Germany and the United States of America what our children are learning in their second year as computer science students since children finished primary school already knowing so you don't need to examine them on that for them to get into the world because it's taken for granted children learn this at home at primary school level as a student in England as a graduate student I remember there was a time I did the research on this and I discovered that even when people get into the from their homes in England the journals and universities most of them had already mastered the things universities were teaching and they thought that universities were wasting their time so they were paid greater attention to things that universities were not teaching but again look at America for example America doesn't even expose you to an exam that will require you to respond to four subjects you respond to only two fundamental subjects evidence based reason and writing and then they examine you a month because it's taken for granted that everybody has the basic knowledge it takes to use computer to learn and benefit from higher education that is not where we are but until we are able to improve internet access improve income level so that parents can also buy laptop for their children to pretend that we are teaching children computer science when they are not learning anything interesting indeed we have a number of more questions for you because there's a lot to talk about as far as the joint admissions when circulation board is concerned especially whether it's even necessary in this day and age in Nigeria's education system but thank you very much for your time he's an educational consultant and his name is Peter Ogudoro he's been our guest analyst on the second major topic on the breakfast this morning Mr. Ogudoro, thank you very much for your time I apologize with my hands in the air Dr. Ogudoro our other PhD at the end as well I apologize sir, thank you very much for your expert analysis you have a great day thank you sir, thank you very much mercy, scrap jam or not that's what I wanted to ask you but no time, police doesn't allow us to deal with them later but is it even necessary, I tell you what I've had the opportunity to be in the Ghanaian system and Nigerian system you finish secondary school, you go to university if you are smart you should be able to pass your bike and if you pass your bike, voila I've written jam here and people are jumping over the fence to pass what do you call it, expo you know what I'm talking about mercy, come on why are you looking at me like you don't know what I'm talking about there is, you had even the invigilators allowing people to come in to ride for other people so the purpose is defeated and jam had become over the years a stumbling block to a lot of smart Nigerian students not being able to get in the way I totally agree with you and people have constantly found ways to manoeuvre the system and get into the system because we have made that very compulsive we are developing nation and let's just hope that way maybe it should be scrapped people remember it was a prayer point and once you write you can't go back again so why are we placing a stumbling block on the path of our students who spend years, especially in times when things are hard indigent students who may not be able to afford writing jam over and over again why do we place a stumbling block on their path to university so I'm thinking that that would be a conversation for another day but don't look at me like you don't know what people are doing I do but it took me some time to even understand that I mean if I tell you some of the stories and experiences that I have had no I was actually arrested when I was underage I wasn't even up to 18 because I found myself around the premise where exam was being written and I was taken away and then I was locked up for no reason I didn't even know what that meant they said you were around the premises I was like what's going on you know when you had like a ward who was writing and exams and then you needed to just wait by and then you guys can just get home together however that's enough we definitely come through with the conversation of course with the jam conversation some of the time where we talk about whether or not to scrap the system or all of the formalities and the process that we're experiencing currently but if you missed out on any part of the conversation it's okay to follow us on Twitter or Facebook and Instagram it's at Plus TV Africa please subscribe to our YouTube channel at Plus TV Africa Lifestyle and Plus TV Africa I am Messi Boko have a fantastic Tuesday and I'm Kofi Bartel so we're back tomorrow enjoy the rest of your day good morning