 Moving forward, we are going towards our next session, our next session is a panel discussion. This is going to be an interesting discussion on reinventing marketing ROI, blending, branding and performance. Now I would like all of you to join me as I welcome and introduce our speakers on the panel to all of you. I'd like to invite our session chair, Ms. Rina Mishra, Senior Partner Microsoft Advertising. Our panelist, Ms. Rina Singh, CEO, I Prospect, Ms. Elizabeth Venkataraman, Joint President, Consumer, Commercial and Wealth Marketing, Putak Mahindra Bank, Mr. Praval Singh, Vice President Marketing, Zoho, Shreyaan Shmody, Head of Performance Marketing, Flipkart and last but not the least, Mr. Prasad Shrijwari, Founder and CEO, LogicServe. So very warm welcome to all our panelists on screen and thank you for joining us today. And I'd like Rina to please take over the proceedings for the panel discussion. Thank you, Khyati. Welcome all. I feel extremely delighted to host a panel of thought leaders of this industry today. And so welcome to all the panel members. Of course Rohit has already kind of given a little introduction on the search. I would highly suggest that you could go and refer it at some point of time. It's extremely insightful. And just starting the discussion. So we all know that leadership plays a very important role in today's time because we look at a leader because their role is to drive innovation. They kind of recognize and they create a lot of opportunities. But for a lot of us, leadership is like a North Star and we kind of look at them when we are kind of looking for some kind of a perspective on the world. We know that the dynamics of the market are ever changing. And this calls once in a while for us to evaluate our goals and see, are we still relevant. So with that thought, I will jump into the discussion, which is reinventing marketing, blending, branding and performance. And let's hear from this August panel. So my first question is to Rubina. Hi Rubina, I prospect is established itself as an expert digital first end to end agency, which is known in the market for their expertise in the financial sector. And my question to you is that do you think the line between branding and performance is blurring for brands from marketing perspective. Absolutely, I think, you know, we are at a stage today where, you know, both branding as well as performance are really coming together they're really intersecting. I think that ecosystem where branding and performance could be bought separately in siloed and work has gone long past, you know, because let's really look at it. We need to think of the consumer in the center and then plan our media and connect the media around that. And what we need to do is, you know, use all the capabilities that we have from understanding brand to be able to do strategic planning to be able to do marketing activation as well as, you know, performance optimization. And I think where the magic really happens is where you're able to, you know, understand the ever changing human behavior and human truths and find those pivotal intersects between culture content data and technology. And that's where you need to use your experience and bring it all together and bring it to life. And once you're able to do that, I think that's where you can truly, you know, help brands accelerate. So what I really think is that you've got to align yourself towards the, you know, business goals, marketing goals, keeping the consumer in the center and of course, get rid of these silos of branding and performance. Thanks. I do believe that, you know, like I said, think of the consumer first is totally relevant. I mean, you can never lose focus of that. And I like that whole thing about spoke about the magic, which is the amalgamation of your culture content data and that so thanks a lot for that. My question is to Elizabeth. What is building tools to enable villages and connecting them on the digital platform. So it means that there will be more customers that will be kind of coming on platform. So from the BFSA sector, I wanted to ask you how does it look for the brands in that sector is the line according to you beginning to blur in the branding and performance metrics. One of the big initiatives which are, you know, being announced now is National Agricultural Market in AM. So what that, it's a good example to, you know, discuss it with so what happens there is it's an online trading platform for to trade in agricultural commodities. And this will actually bring all stakeholders together, whether it's a farmer whether it's a trader and other organizations like the PMC the agree Mondays and all of it to digitize transactions. What really means is the farmer will be able to trade on the platform and you know sell his produce or her produce on the platform and get money into his or her bank account. And that's really the vision is really to digitize to, you know, to do real time price discovery to build a very transparent robust system where they all come into formal financial services. So it can be a significant these kind of initiatives can be significant to, you know, to connect with or to do, you know, some of these initiatives in tier three to tier five towns, and just coming back to those towns and challenges and marketing there, it would be one we'll have to go and see and we'll have to evaluate what are the changes that have happened in those towns in these in these times in the last 15 months, because the country overall is leapfrog digitally, but how these towns specifically been impacted. Now the first round of the pandemic didn't really impact these cities they held themselves well, but round two has impacted them. And we love to really understand I think for a market year and the challenge would be to understand these segments. And, you know, we have multiple products and offerings in these segments, we are committed to the vision. However, for a marketer to be challenged to understand what they have how they have changed how they have adapted during the pandemic, what are the new media which they've begun to use because there is increasing levels of internet penetration, etc. And then, you know, develop the campaign. So it will be a little more, it will be differentiated a different approach, based on what kind of media they're using. I think science do show this. I mean you see it with even more domestic help. It is the WhatsApp usage, or you know chat usage has gone up. It was earlier more SMS, you know, and calls but data proliferation etc has also changed some of the Thank you. In fact, you know, the wave and what what COVID has done to us it is not lost on any of us how much they have really suffered. I think the timing is just right. And I think it's great that we are cutting so many agents in between so I think it sounds like an absolutely aggressive and a very like a needed step that the Gotak-Mendhra Bank is taking. Thank you for that. So now we've heard from the both sides from the BFSS sector and let's move on to understand something from the e-commerce. So Suryansh, this question is for you. Flipkart is one of the biggest brands that we know in the e-commerce space. What is the differentiation between branding and performance campaign parameters in the e-commerce space? Sure. Hi everyone. Thanks for the question. This is like an evergreen question. I think wherever I go, I get this question for sure. So branding is an international, right? It is very, very important for anyone, any brand, right? And it depends on what life stage your brand is. Today, when we look at any of the larger brands, those brands are brands because they have spent huge amount of money on to branding, right? And it is not about right away starting with performance. So for us as well, we do understand that branding is critical and performance is also very critical. And we try and keep both separate because we don't want to really merge both of these together and kind of dissolve the overall output of this matrix, right? So for a performance campaign when I run, today a performance campaign would get measured on to what kind of ROI do I get, right? ROI could be defined into visits, visitors, customers, new acquisition, repeat acquisition, anything, right? Whereas when we run a branding campaign, you would want to really focus more towards how many customers are you able to reach out to? Are you able to create that kind of impact that a customer thinks of your brand when he needs a particular product, right? Your branding message would not typically say that, okay, we have this product come and purchase at this price, right? But to your performance product, performance ad would really look like this. So it's very important to measure the right metrics. So reach frequency, of course, is a right metric for your brand campaigns. And when you run performance campaigns, you can probably decide, like, do you want to really go deeper the funnel or you want to be on the mid of the funnel where you want to stop at, say, measuring only visits or you want to see add to cards or you want to finally go to a purchase and then attribute. Yeah, so what I'm hearing is that it's pretty much like kind of stays, it doesn't really come in a cross road. It's pretty much a differentiation is like there and it's kind of clear for you to measure. So, of course, it's reach and frequency for the brand campaign. Thanks, Riaans. My next question is to Praval. So with 60 million users worldwide and you being present 180 plus countries. So who has been a very strong player in the software, B2B software and technology space. The focus was over has always been as very strong product and user experience. How does product management and the marketing aligned together and defining the marketing roles within our organization. Thank you, Rina. And hi everyone else. That's a good question and often keeps coming up to us because where we are today with over 50 products and 10,000 employees and growing, you know, and primarily serving the B2B market with a very clear well defined objective of, you know, helping businesses of all sizes to do better at what they're doing across all functions HR sales marketing, front office, back office, all of that. So what happens is when you are running such a big ship, you know, one thing is that ski is alignment right at both at the product level, when you have 50 plus products, independent teams working on those products, competing in independent markets with some overlap here and there. So there is alignment between the product teams and at the brand level at the level I would say which is the key. And, and I think all of that starts with the purpose, which like I said is, in our case, helping businesses of all sizes grow and be more efficient and productive that's the premise, all the software that people is built on. Now, if you come back to how product marketing managers and product managers work together or product marketing as a function and product management as a function work together. Essentially, they're both striving towards delivering more value to customers and that is why you have a customer that is how you retain a customer. And sure, one is definitely more customer facing than the other multiple generally have more output facing roles than product managers. But again, they team tag together to sort of deliver the best value. And if I was to further segment into how their roles play together at Zoho and I would like to believe as well as well in this industry. You know, it's about product manager and team, you know, work on creating that value by all the way from defining the product roadmap, what was the product strategy, how would the life cycle look like, how would the releases look like all of that in terms of creating value. Marketing teams and product marketing managers, you know, they focus on how that value can be communicated in terms of how we position it, package it, price it, kind of content we create, how do we target, how do we segment an audience, how do we go to market with this thing that we are trying to sell. So that's how creation of value and communication of values is between PM and PMMs. And then there's of course delivery, you know, delivery is based on different channels. So, you know, could be branding business element, field marketing, social media. There's so many of these channels that, you know, eventually other teams plug into product marketing teams and deliver right so that sort of the rough structure of how we how we operate the whole machinery. And of course, this is replicated at product levels across different products, but it also sort of ties up the brand level in terms of how we position ourselves and that's that's sort of, again steps back to who we are and what we're trying to solve for it with a flavor of a lot of context in terms of our own values beat around privacy or beat around buildings, everything from ground up the whole tech stack and investing in R&D, those are some of the core principles that we live for and with. So that's sort of how the whole product and brand machinery ties in together with brand marketing, product marketing, field marketing, all that work together. Thanks for also, in fact, you know, I, you know, it's pretty much delivering, you're delivering value to the customer. And I think, you know, this is such an important thing that in today's time, you have to kind of really put so much of work in R&D and privacy because these are also relevant because these are actually kind of, you know, what eventually becomes a value to the customer. So thanks a lot for that. Moving on, my next question is to Prasad. Hi Prasad, the number of people actually getting connected in tier two and tier three towns. We are hearing a lot of chatter about voice and vernacular, you know, it's like, it's like, you know, the next big thing. Are you seeing a very scalable model of voice and vernacular that is being pitched to the client or being shared with the client? Very interesting question. There are four or five important, I think words that I need to pick it up and probably try to answer that. One is tier one, tier two, okay, location related one to talk about voice and vernacular and the fifth important one is the scalability and a lot of trends have been talked about. And I think Rohit spoke, you know, Rohit gave that search in India 2021 trends and many of those report, yes, okay, many of those points have already been sort of covered. You know what, how would I take it up as a market here, you know, as a digital market, I would say we have been predicting all these changes for quite some time now, right? Okay, and yeah, I mean, a lot of times we have talked about it, but the way Elizabeth talked about it, the pandemic has really accentuated those predictions much, much faster, right? Okay, and the consumer change, okay, the change the way, you know, we consume information, the way we work, the way we shop, the way we learn, the way we entertain, you know, everything has changed, okay? And of course, digital became the center of many of these aspects and digitalized, okay, and I actually tried to do an interesting study that I was reading sometime back. And if I really want to draw these changes in this, you know, what they call is a longitudinal consumer pulse, okay, many of these habits, okay, which sort of be acquired in the first two, three months in, you know, April, May, June, okay, they, you know, many of those are going to be step change, you know, go up and you know, it's going to be there, or some of them are really going to split up, okay, that way. Okay, now, let me go back, you know, around a year back during this time, if you see how the brands change, you know, because, you know, all of us saw that the, everything sort of came down, but you know, what we're brand doing, okay, they were, in this digitalized, a lot of talk about safety and empathy, okay, and that become the focal point of messaging and is being continued for a long time, right? So the important thing which happened is that basically the conversation with consumer, you know, started becoming very, very, very important, okay, and again, if you remember, I'm going to, you know, connect all these points later on. So what's happening is that I, it's very interesting thing that I see that brands have to be sort of start thinking like a publisher now, okay, because, you know, they are giving that information to be, to their consumers in on a personal and lots of stuff, right, so if I add that, okay, then what's are happening, okay, so there are a few numbers which are coming, voice search areas in India are currently sort of growing at 270% per year. Even Rohit talked about that, you know, a huge amount of people are converting and translating things, okay, so as I understand around 17 billion, there is some report that I was reading sometime back, 17 billion times in last year, there's a translation of web pages happening in big languages, okay, so we're seeing all those changes happening so rapidly. There's a very interesting question I actually went and sort of, I wanted to find out what actually happened, so we went to a multi-level sites company, okay, and asked them a question, you know, how, what do you see? So very interesting one, so if you see tier 2 May, English websites grew during lockdown, for example pre-COVID, if it was X, okay, then during the first lockdown, it became 1.3X and later on, I mean, so X to 1.3X. What happened to Hindi languages, right, so if pre-COVID it was X, X number of people were visiting the language sites, during the first lockdown, it became 2.52X and post-lockdown, instead of coming to X, it came down to 2.43X, okay, then come down back, right, then I wanted to know more, so what happened to tier 3, okay, so it moved from X to 0.63X 4 times and post-lockdown, it didn't actually come down, it became 4.84X, right, then I wanted to know what's happening, who's reading it, is it only young population? So between 18 to 35, okay, we have that data, okay, we actually went and called those data, 18 to 35, okay, we saw X to 1.87X and 2.84, okay, so it moved that way, but for 35 plus, it moved from X to 1.73 and 2.99, so if you see the way, all that movement that we have seen from 400 million to around 700 million internet users in this country, okay, that growth is coming from this tier 2, tier 3 across the group and across the age group as well as in big more. Now, if you remember, I talked about that, you know, the conversation one, if that group is going to talk about or they want to know more about it, they converse what they are comfortable with is the voice, okay, because you know, brands want to really behave like a publisher and communicate with the consumer, okay, if I put this, okay, then it's a story, you asked me the fifth word that uses scale, scale is, if you see this much of a growth, I mean, there's absolutely no question about scale, we're seeing a, you know, scale a lot, how the brands are going to use it is the question, I mean, is the question, are there enough people or is the question, are there enough people reached? Okay, so it falls in the purview of brand, then I would say there's a huge amount of scale, it's just that, you know, brands need to sort of go after that, okay, so from that 400 million to 700 million in tier 2 and tier 3, you know, converting there in Indic language, conversing in, you know, want to converse and in voice, so that's what I probably saw. Yeah, Lina. Thank you, I just have quick follow up on that, so what are the technologies, the solutions that your clients are looking to invest, are you hearing something from the client side that. Yeah, yeah, multiple of those, okay, the first few months about very simple one is how quickly I translate and all that, okay, so which happens, it's like, it's earlier one, okay. But you know what, if I go ahead and if you're taking those all now 9, 10, 11 months have happened, a lot of people who are really talking, this is some of the implementation we are also doing is that all that conversational voice technology is AI based, okay, which is definitely people are experimented with. And then a very interesting one, okay, there are a lot of dialect based also, you know, how you are bought, AI bought will understand the dialects, okay, that's something which I definitely looking for. I mean, I'm experiencing a lot on that. Apart from that, I think, definitely from tier two, tier three and the technology perspective, many different channels which are coming up, formats have something we've been very, very much being discussed on a lot of conversational formats of ads, okay, because this is the, these are the people, okay, who got exposed directly to the leapfrog from one to one other. But the formats we were looking earlier, they're going to change. So a lot of technologies are coming around that audience is something which will happen a lot. And especially with, I know I'm going to talk about third party cookies today, but you know how all that plays around with audiences and formats and you know, voice and AI. And you know what, if I really wear the academic cap, we are in the midst of so many parameters changing. And it's a very fluxy situation that way, but a lot of technologies are getting discussed and probably getting implemented. It's going to be very interesting in next three to six months. Yeah, it's been very, very exciting. Thanks a lot for that insight. I think amazing numbers. It does look like that marketeers have to kind of really kind of come together and kind of make sure that they're not losing this audience. Just to kind of give a little insight, I think even in Microsoft side of tech stack, I'm hearing a lot of conversation where the enterprise is building a lot of B2B solutions for our clients based on voice in vernacular. So moving on, I have a question of the same thing to Elizabeth. Considering the inroads that is being made and what we heard right now to connect with small towns and villages. How is the banking industry looking at incorporating voice in vernacular and their marketing strategies. Right, I think that first we'll approach it from where the customer is so you see that customers are increasingly sending voice notes. You get it even from your Nareel Paniwala, you get it even from your maid or you get it even from your driver. So that's the first sign, right? They're comfortable using it. So that's a good sign. You're also, you know, the fact that literacy may or may not be prevalent will therefore be very, very important. For these towns, because, you know, it will not depend on whether you can really write or even read or, you know, maybe a little bit of that can be, you know, overcome with this technology. It's a very, very important from the tier, you know, tier three to tier five, where some of these challenges may be there, and to bring them back into formal financial services. It will have to be calibrated very well because our journey right now English and Hindi journey is, you know, pretty well on its way. I think the entire language suite that we will need for these cities or towns will have to be accelerated because you may, you will have to connect with the customer in the way she wants to connect with you. And the second part is that it's definitely over for broadcast. I think Prasad covered that. It's you can't just broadcast things to the customer. It has to be two way. The third part is going to be very, very important. So our voice bots, we have a voice bot, you know, KIA, the Kotak voice bot and she handles queries, and where a specialist is required there's a, you know, hand over to the, you know, to the customer service representative. You know, as you use the voice bot, we all know that she gets better at it. So the technology will have to mature will have to go through its, you know, it'll have to run its course. And then we will have to develop, you know, language capabilities in multiple languages to be able to actually talk to everyone. So it's going to have all of these things are going to have a play. The other aspects of voice really is that it also is unique to you, like your retina or your fingerprint, it is unique to you. So it can actually serve as a biometric method as well. So that will, that will see some traction. The thing is that with financial services, it's always, it's your money. So it's the, it's, it really has to it's, it's a little different, the consumer mindset is a little different from just buying something. You know, or doing something like that. So there will be certain level of extended inertia or barrier or concern, which we will need to address from a financial services perspective. So I think increasingly trust in our sector is going to be important because you can't see a person and you can't see a branch, then I need to trust you. So the role of a brand custodian is going and very important for marketers will need to be will will become very, very different and will play a very, very important role in the years going ahead. So I think we're up for exciting times. You know, you're going to see IOT, I think Prasad already touched on AI, and as devices talk to devices, and people will talk to devices, you know, all with with voice as well, and that's going to play a very large role in the way things shape up in in the years. So, yes, I think BFSI is is is making tremendous progress, but in the area of, you know, connecting with the tier three to tier five using voice and vernacular is going to now unfold at a fairly accelerated pace. And I think everybody's looking at it and everybody's evaluating it and, you know, it's all for us to see. Absolutely. I think it's going to be a huge game changer. I think we all saw it coming and you know I think it's just kind of really because of all what has happened. It's just kind of really just spread up the whole thing. And I think that language sweet that you spoke about that will really be another layer, you know, because it really kind of gets so many people interested in it. And one of the most interesting things I see is that people have now become very comfortable talking to chat about which is like a very luck tens earlier but now people are okay to do that, you know, because the times are such sweet you have to all kind of you know, get there and I think it's a very critical job of banking sector does because as you said it's all really about trust, and it's their money you know so the times that amazing insights on that. My question is to Praval. What are your thoughts on redefining marketing impact amidst this crisis. So who has made significant changes to the marketing strategies during the pandemic. So how is marketing been evolving for you in the past year specifically in the light of what has happened. Sure. In fact, this reminds me of the time when I believe first peak of March when we were starting to see the two pages coming into India and the pandemic. And we were about 8,000 85 people then as a company and a company that has never worked remotely, you know, or in this distributed manner for that for that. For any definition of remote work that it is most people were in a single office, even though we had offices elsewhere. So back then I think it was a brave move to call everybody to sort of make sure that they work from home from tomorrow or within three days. And that was I think a few weeks where we were like figuring things out and taking it to one day one week and then one month at a time and how things play out. Like most of us, I would say. But then we went to work from home mode a couple of weeks before the country went into a lockdown. And we're sort of trying to ease into it. And of course it impacted every department, every function, every individual, including marketing, I would say. And the first thing that we sort of decided and committed towards, we would go with this whole method of survive and serve, which is to what what Alliance tell you to wear your own masks first before you help others. So we decided that we'll focus on surviving and then serving and that led to cutting down of our budgets on ads and things like that. And then sort of realigning ourselves and then focusing a lot more on content and education and that kind of thing. And that came in from the whole idea of spending more judiciously for now until things start to look better. The good news for us was, things didn't hit us as bad as we thought it would. They may, you know, and so we started opening up our investments again slowly and gradually, but in a very cautious manner where we said, let's sort of focus on the message, the content, education that we can create how we can get value for our prospects and customers and less on running ads. And that also led to a few other things. For example, we ended up reviewing all our messages and flows on how do we make sure that there is enough empathy in our communication that and we are mindful of what the world is going through and not be torn deaf and push something, you know, towards a prospect or customer. So a lot of review around empathy in communication. And then we came up with some programs and initiatives to help small businesses that were facing all the heat, you know, where there were countries specific region specific programs. For example, in India, we did something called Sudeshi Sankal to help small businesses NGOs and government institutions and then we did some some other stuff in some other countries and so on and so forth. So that was sort of how we sort of held ourselves together and focused on content education and let that lead marketing as a function. Also, there's a lot of learning, I would say, you know, one thing was over these months and now more than a year, you know, we've learned that virtue is going to stay, you know, in fact, it's leaning towards going hybrid if at all, not off virtual completely. And not just in terms of how we work as a team, as a marketing team or as a company, but also how we engage with our prospects with our customers across sales, marketing, community building, all that. A lot of that we were doing was also happening offline and all that changed to virtual and we now seeing some of it moving towards hybrid, you know, and, and that would change a lot of things that would potentially bring down business travel that would potentially redefine how you engage with the prospects prospective customer in a different part of the world, so on and so forth. Right. So that was one learning and we're trying to sort of align ourselves with that. The other is, we also saw how content consumption patterns evolve and change right all the way from widespread based networks like Twitter Spaces and Clubhouse and so on and so forth and how people started spending time on them, you know, and and all the way to OTTs and videos and all that right now as a marketer and as a market as marketing teams, you know, of course, it's our national nation towards understanding these newer networks and what's the intent of people when they're there, how can we engage with them, how can we be useful. So these are some newer areas I would say you're still tapping on, but these are all led, I would say by the pandemic, you know, in terms of how we are learning ourselves. And yeah, that's, that's, that's how I would say we sort of dealt with the last 1215 18 months. Thank you. Well, in fact, your support initiative that you guys have done for this, it was a very valuable one. I think a lot of noise around this and you know, like a great initiative. Amazing feedback on that one. And I, what I hear is that I think you change the language. These are very small things but I think so much of difference. People are not really in that mindset and you know, if you change the tone of the whole community, they really kind of begin to connect with them. So I think those are very like good learnings. And of course, even the hybrid piece. I think it all loads of reality and I think a lot of companies are already beginning to kind of get there, you know, because of course like it's going to stay. So thanks a lot for those insight. Moving on, my next question is to Prasad. So with the situation, this is again about the whole pandemic. And so with the situation over the past two to three months, what were some of the unique strategies that logics of as an agency had to implement for the client amidst the crisis. I'm talking about mostly for the second wave because of course there are a lot of learning which also came in the first wave, but was it same or did it change what happened. I definitely have an interesting question I will cover that but one thing about what is a bit talked about it really triggered my thought process. Okay, because the voice one that you talk about voice nodes. Okay, with collaboration is not enough to phase is not happening. So I see, okay, because written words doesn't have tone. So a simple yes, the way I said it can make a lot of different. So I see now, okay, trust me you call because you said there are tier three and tier four and you know, people who are not educated using voice notes. I said I have started using white notes a lot if there's a longer thing to talk about. You just press it and say that yeah I say what career you should be doing it I think so. Okay, because you know, I just just say it's a very interesting one because when you're saying it I was reflecting it why do I do it. Right. Okay, just I thought of saying it because you know the whole tone as a concept is so critical. It's critical when you are interacting and especially the people who have just gotten to an internet that tier two, tier three, tier four, tier five whatever we're talking about in their language with that tone when they have to you know, they are again, you know, the good part is that trusting this medium is very critical. The tone is one of the most important voice attribute which is coming back to your question, you know what to be very frank and wave is very different, very different than many parameters. I still, you know, there are so many parameters that I'm trying to sort of understand and all, but I think what under underlying and of course at the same time there are a lot of changes happening in the technology space also. You know, all of us are aware, you know, in few months down the line, third party cookies are not going to be there your frequency or audiences, your, you know, measurements everything is going to get affected. But there are four it's you know, you know, at the end of first sort of wave and opening which had happened, very distinctive cheese happened at the thing happened is about data. So, you know, there are whole amalgamation and integration between meet our creative data insights, you know, and technology is being talked about, okay, and that is becoming enhanced a lot. Okay, so how do I get a lot of different things together and make a campaign. Okay, and understand data from it and do something else. Okay, that's something I see a lot. For example, there is a very simple campaign, you ask me what we this very, very simple one. Okay, but a lot of audience based one. So, you know, for one of the large brand what we did is that combination of digital out of home, plus, you know, programmatic plus airlines data. Right, so if you're sitting at a, at a, at a gate number two, which is flight is going to Delhi. Okay, at the DOH. Okay, can you show something different to those audiences. Right, so the whole story of audiences, intelligence mapping, archetypes, you know, all the streets are coming. Okay, it's not going to be very cut saying that, you know, this channel, that stuff, this KPI, a combination of integration is happening having said so second wave is very different. Okay, I still have not figured out how it will be things are coming back a bit as a person I think I realize you know all of us have changed a lot in this last, you know, the second wave, what are the multiple things. But I hope I answered it is a little bit in whatever I could. It was not a full answer because I'm still trying to figure out what it's integrated way of things, which and in a combination of two or three things could be a major thing stuck there. Yeah. No, I agree because it's, you know, it's fine because think about it this way. You know, all people, you know, even if you're a manager in some company or you are still a human at the end of the day. So, you know, we are all equal in pattern. We have seen so much of, you know, death and tragedy happening. You do start to kind of, you know, some of this does seep into your work as well. So, yes, I mean, that's okay. I mean, you know, as we kind of, you know, the final answer makes and we'll probably get to hear from you, a little bit more about it later. Thanks a lot, Prasad. Moving on. My next question is to Raveena. How has the definition of ROI changed in the recent times across industry verticals. You are across a lot of clients. So, you know, it could be a different kind of a learning. What according to you is the best way to align ROI rules with potential marketing channels. So, Raveena, this is always an interesting question, because see at the end of the day, the digital industry is still very new. And you know, what really delighted marketers and what attracted them through the digital industry in the first place was the fact that, you know, there are so many metrics that you can track. But I think also the biggest pitfall is not knowing which is the right metric to track. And that's the biggest pitfall that marketers can fall into. Initially, when we started off as an industry, everybody knows, you know, people went for those superficial metrics, vanity ones, which had very little substance. I think but as time has evolved, marketers have also involved and they're looking at more business intelligent metrics. What these business intelligent metrics are is they tell you, you know, so basically the idea is really to focus on metrics, which tell you what to do next with them. So if you look at a metric and you're not sure, you know, how you can use it to make a well informed decision, then I would just say ditch that metric, it doesn't really matter. You know, the metrics today have to be far more intelligent and actionable. So how do you decide whether the metric is actionable or not? I use basically a very simple way of deciding that saying that, you know, these are the three questions. If the metric answers any one of those three, then, you know, that's a metric I want to chase. The first one is that does it help me build, you know, understand whether I'm building or losing my revenue. Does it help me understand whether I'm gaining or losing customers or does it help drive people to me, you know, as a marketer. And then on these actionable metrics, then, you know, you've got to put in smart KPIs. Now, how do you decide KPIs for each of the channels, etc. Again, depends organization to organization. It's very hard to say there's one way of doing it. In some organizations which are far more integrated, you know, you can have business schools as the KPIs. While in larger organizations where they're structured differently, with different teams handling different part of the business, then I think you have to look at KPIs depending on each of the channels that you are using. And to do that, you know, we apply something which we call the race framework. And in that, what we do is, you know, we look at the, we structure the objectives by the customer lifestyle, life cycle stage, you know. So, and then we start looking at it in a very, the KPIs as well as the customer centric data in a very granular way, you know, through the marketing strategy and through that whole journey of reach, act, convert and engage. And obviously through this journey, you know, different objectives will have different KPIs. Obviously, you know, prospecting will have a different KPI, data meeting will have a different KPIs, etc., etc. So I think that's really the trick currently that we use with our customers. Thanks, Rubina. It looks like almost that you give up in the secret sauce because you know, it's just like, you know, that the three question is like really like a great way to look at it. You know, if it is going to work for you or not, this is really fantastic. Thanks for that insight. Moving on to Shreyaan's, let's see something from the e-commerce industry now. So e-commerce has witnessed a significant change and growth curve in the past year or so. I'm again talking about with the whole COVID situation. What kind of fundamental impact did that have on Flipkart's focus on marketing performance and goals? Did that change for you guys? Was it the same? What happened? Sure. Thanks for the question. So this pandemic, right, it has taught a lot to each of our marketeers, right? So this is a complex world and it's always crowded with so many marketeers coming in bidding for a single impression, right? And think of a world where there's no one who is ready to pay any money for advertising. Everything is available and it is available at a cost which you want. And this is an advertiser's dream situation where you can advertise, but you don't really want to advertise because of multiple reasons, right? Like a simple example, which I would give on our campaigns, right? We would have structured our campaigns into a pan India campaign and you would run a pan India campaign or certain transactions, right? Now in a regular situation, it really works fine and it kind of gives us the ROI where we are able to shift our monies from a high converting to low converting to a high converting geography automatically based on algorithms and stuff, right? Now, think of a situation where this is changing and it is pretty dynamic in nature, right? Your top converting city is in lockdown and you cannot advertise, right? And your algorithm has gone crazy right now because this is not working anymore. Now what do you do? Like either you look at the complete restructuring of your account and then you go back and see, okay, this is what, how it is figuring out. Then that's of course very, very manual, right? So for us, I think the goals kept changing because of this and as in when cities were going into lockdown and as in cities were coming out of lockdown, right? We had to be very, very dynamic and swift in sort of advertising the right products to the right customer. And holding on to your advertising is also very, very difficult because when we rely a lot on our first party data, right? So to go out and advertise on the performance marketing side of things. And the problem with first party data is that you would not want to overuse it, but you would want to use it to a extent where you can just sharpen your advertising campaigns further. So the fundamental change which came in right was on how we are buying media, what kind of media are we buying, right? Today, if you look at search, right? There's no definition which says that you should buy search only for performance, right? You can buy search for branding as well. And people are out there doing that where search is being used for branding, right? So it is a bit of a tricky situation where you'll have to figure out what is working for you and how your goals are also changing and you also sort of evolve immediately with the changing ecosystem out there. Thank you because thanks for speaking about the search for branding part. That is something we have also been really pushing because that's almost like trying to change the behavior of the media buyer. Typically, search kind of always qualifies in the lower funnel, but this is a narrative that we have also been trying to kind of work on. And yeah, we have all kind of seen how e-commerce has kind of performed and the learning that I wanted to kind of get was that, you know, I mean, it does look like all good from now. But, you know, there are so many things that a brand kind of goes through. You have to realign so many things internally to kind of deliver the same kind of result. So with that, I think we have come to the end of the panel discussion. I do have one question and I would love to ask that. And this question is that I can go like one by one. So which is that one book that you feel is a must read for your audience out there? And this book does not have to be a business book or whatever, but just a book that you really thought it changed you. So, Shayanth, I could start with you. Let me know what do you think is the book that really you thought it's like a really a must read. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. That's like a very, very interesting book. I think anyone should, if you get time, you should definitely get that onto your first reading. Awesome. Thanks a lot, Shayanth. I can ask Rubina, do you want to tell us about the book you would you would want people to read? Yeah, unfortunately, it's not published yet. I'm very proud of my daughter's writing it. So I'm going to vote it. Yes, that's what I'm going to encourage everybody. My eight year old daughter is writing a book on her lockdown experience. I'm going to definitely ask everybody to read. But on a more serious note, I think if you haven't read The Secret, I think it's a great book gives you a lot of positivity in your life, especially in these tough times. I would encourage those who haven't read it to grab a copy and read it. Thank you, Rubina. Do you want to tell us about a book? Do you want to suggest a book you all should be reading? Yeah, I think that for all women around you, especially the younger women, I think becoming is what I've been gifting to all my Gen Z, all my daughter as well. I gifted it to her and I've gifted it to many Gen Z women. I think it's a beautiful story and it's inspiring and I think I should read it. Absolutely, thanks a lot. I'm going to read it to you and this sounds great. Thanks a lot for sharing that. Praval, do you want to tell us about the book you would want to recommend us to read? Yeah, one of the early ones I remember and I still sort of stuck to me is a book named Siddharth by Harman Hesse. It's a very simple book and essentially sort of sits on the principle that when you're up, when you're trying to climb up a mountain, no matter which path you take, when you're up there, the view is pretty much the same regardless of where you came from. That's a sort of very close, sort of sticks in your mind and head for years. At least a friend of mine recommended that. It's a beautiful read, so that's something that I really remember a lot about. Prasad, do you want to tell us? I will ask, okay. So yeah, I think it's interesting. It's very difficult because I know you're a rational reader, you know, every year I read sort of more than your book and multiple genres of stuff. But I think one book that I think everyone I will ask to read is the Anti-Prajad. So I think things that gain from disorder. Okay, so it's the book by Nandaseem Athalim. Okay, the whole thing is that the opposite of Prajad, okay, is not strong. Okay, something which gains strength on disorder is anti-Prajad. Very interesting concept and actually, you know, very close to my heart and some of this concept I really use during the COVID times. Okay, what are the things that we should build? Okay, when there is a shock, okay, the outcome is not I survived. The outcome is that I became strong. Awesome. What is the name of the book you said? Anti-Prajad. Okay, anti-Prajad by, I mean, it's a things that gain from disorder. It's a book by Talib. Okay, the same guy who talked about Black Swan concepts. Right. Good one. Really good one. Very interesting. Thank you. So I think that we have come to the end of this panel question. Yes. And, you know, this has been lovely talking to you guys and once again, gratitude from my side. Thank you so much, Reena, for sharing this very interesting conversation and thank you to all our panelists. We did run a little over time, but thank you. We had such great recommendations and insights from all of you. So thank you so much for your time and being here on this platform. Thank you so much.