 Good morning and welcome everyone. Let's just pray and then you'll get into our time of discussions and see what questions are there today and we can Engage and interact All right, let's write together John would you like to please open in prayer? Yes, but father we honor you We thank you for this morning if it has we come together to discuss and then understand the scripture and also Certain practical aspects Lord. We pray that you will lead us You will continue to speak to us God give us wisdom and understanding and We pray that every one of us will be enriched by your word of God We submit ourselves before your presence in Jesus name pray All right, welcome everyone so time is open For questions answers discussions anything that anyone would like and I don't know who should lead today Russian would you like to lead I think Last son last time was Jean right? I think Jean last time Or Paul or Paul led last time I think Yeah, so Russian you would you like to host today or sure? So we have a question from John. I'm a chat section. So he's mentioned Talking about the fivefold ministry in Ephesians 4 The previous verses talks about Christ descending to the lower parts of the earth and then ascending far above all Heavens and giving the gifts Could you explain the connection? With this to the fivefold ministry? Okay Is does anybody have any answer on that please? Yes interesting question So if you just look at the flow of thought there in Ephesians chapter 4 in verse 1 to Paul is just telling us, you know that each one should be faithful and there'd be a stewards with what God has given to us and Each one should be faithful But you know with what God has given to us then He tells us to Yeah, that's what that was worse one and then he tells us to you know walk in the unity of the spirit He talks about the fact verse 4 this one Lord one God one faith and then verse 7 He starts talking about gifts, right? So we're seven. He says you know to each one is given gifts and then suddenly He kind of seems like he diverges off into You know a picture. He's actually drawing from the Old Testament From I think some 68. Yeah, some 68. So he's actually drawing on the Old Testament. This is quoting from the Old Testament So it's actually a fulfillment of Bible prophecy So he's going off into a picture which actually is scripture some 68 which he quotes here and then he comes back in verse Yeah Verse 11 To continue with the thought on gifts, right? So if you see where seven he's talking about gifts worse 11. He's talking about gifts 8 9 10 he's he's painting a picture for us. What is this picture? This picture is of You know of Christ who who He descended that means he died. He went down to the low parts of the earth He ascended so that when he ascended he took captivity captives. So he you know, he released all the Old Testament saints Who were held in Abraham's bosom up until that time so the Old Testament saints who died they didn't go to heaven They went to paradise Paradise paradise was at that time in Abraham's bosom in the lower parts of the earth So when you come into the New Testament paradise is always in heaven in the Old Testament paradise is Abraham's bosom in the lower parts of the earth. So in Christ died he descended He set to this captives free and then he's ascending in a triumphant procession That's the picture Paul is painting for us Which is of course from the Old Testament scripture, but now it's like, you know a king who was victorious And he's leading his army is his army in a triumphant procession Ascending and you find this also in in other parts of Paul's writing So when you look at collusion separate two verse 14 and 15 Paul is Using that same image, you know that same triumphant procession image of Jesus being the The champion the conqueror and leading in triumph procession So part of the triumphant procession had to do with shaming the enemy So that's where he's talking about Colossians to 1415 he put the enemy Satan to public shame public display But part of the triumphant procession is also honoring the people Like the Kings Champions honoring them giving them, you know medals and awards So he's drawing that picture for us And then he comes back to the holiest thing of giving gifts to men so If verse 7 says he's given gifts to all all You know now according to the measure of Christ So each one is given in a grace According so that's every believer has received gifts Then he goes off onto this triumphant procession picture according from Psalm 68 Jesus, you know descending and ascending and leading The procession of victorious people And then he says he also gave special gifts. That's worse 11 and these are you know apostles prophets past teachers So it's a really beautiful picture that he's painting between verse 7 and 11 Sir, okay sir Yes, just a follow up question to that. So as you said So Jesus took everyone from Abraham's bosom and took them to the heaven So it does Abraham's bosom exist now or where does believers in Christ go after They die So abram's bosom, which is paradise is now in heaven. So when you especially when you come to the new New testament in in in a second Corinthians chapter 12 Paul says I was caught up into paradise So up in the third heavens. So abram's bosom exists today But not in the lower parts of the earth, but it exists in heaven. So it's no longer called abram's bosom It's called paradise. So it is in heaven So you also find that in revelation where it talks about, you know, you will You know I forget the reference here I think it's in chapter 3 talks about being in paradise So the word paradise in the new testament always refers to heaven And then of course today when a believer dies his spirit goes straight to be with Jesus right, uh, philippines one Paul says For me to you know to be In philippines one he says it is for better for me to die and to be with the lord So philippines one he's going to if he dies, he's going to be with the lord Second Corinthians five to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord So today when a believer dies immediately his spirit goes to be with Jesus First this alone in chapter 4 Paul is writing those who sleep in christ the lord will bring with him. So that means Those who died today have gone to be with Jesus the spirits and when he comes Jesus brings them back with him so that their spirits can be reunited to their physical bodies So today immediately the moment a person believer dies his spirit goes to be with Jesus Thank you Okay, back to roshan. Thank you. Thank you pasta Because uh, do we have any other questions? Please share it in the chat section Good morning. You all um I have one question like uh, it's from John chapter 3 verse 8 It says that the wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of beat But cannot tell where it comes from And where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the spirit? Like I'm a bit confused Like can you kind of explain why Jesus is comparing the wind to the uh, like holy spirit? Like yeah, that's the question Okay, thank you so Tony. So just to reconfirm the question is why is Jesus referring the wind to the holy spirit? Is that right? Yes Can scripture that you mentioned is from John chapter 3 verse 8 Yeah, it says so the wind blows wherever it pleases You hear it's sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from Or where it is going. So it is with everyone Born of the spirit Thank you Zillatoli And so would uh pastor Nancy, would you like to share your thoughts on that please? Yes, thank you. Thank you pastor roshan. Uh, yeah, so Zillatoli, um In the Old Testament in the Hebrew, uh, the word uh, the word You know For spirit is Rua. Okay, and uh, that is a sort of the same word for wind. So, uh, that's my opinion like Because of that here the holy spirit, uh, and the work of the holy spirit is compared to that of The wind and similar to the work of the wind like you can't see it But you can see the effects of the wind and in the same manner the holy spirit like when a person is born again It's the work of the spirit. Um, you know that that is done for a believer to be born again Like you can't see it like in the in the physical realm the spirit Doing that but then you see the effects of it. You know the the person becomes a new creation And the life of god, you know begins to flow through that person. So, um That would be the reason why jesus compared The wind to the holy spirit and the work of the holy spirit So, yeah, I think others could probably add to that. Thank you Thank you pastor man see Anybody else feel free to add in Pastor sorry, just want to check with zele told you whether it uh, it makes sense Is that okay Yes, ma'am. It's clear. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Thank you Thank you pastor man. Thank you Please feel free to add your questions in the chat section or raise your hand and Ask a question Okay, this is not exactly a yeah, it's a question. I guess we In in biblical preaching class we had this I think right at the first class when we were talking about hermeneutics, um, you know, we uh, this topic of Polygamy was mentioned there, you know in the notes so then there was a question from the students about, you know, if In certain cultures today, you know, that is still practiced and so if a person who has multiple, you know spouses and Typically talking about a man who has maybe two or three wives and then the person becomes a believer, you know And the reality of that happening in certain cultures. So um, so would that person be allowed to serve in church? And if so, you know, how you know, that was the question. So we were just kind of We parked that question. We were kind of saying, okay, I'll come back. We'll talk about it and So, yeah, I just wanted to ask pastor. Um, yeah, we know that Um, uh, you know the the the spiritual side of it and we know that we need to enforce that. Okay, it's it's one person, you know one one spouse Um, but the practical reality of working that out, especially in certain cultures, you know, maybe it's a like a tribal culture and kind of thing How do we practically, uh, you know, work that out church leadership? Serving and all that. So yeah, I just wanted to check Yeah, yeah So, uh, this is this is, uh, you know, it is, uh You know, in a genuine situation we find, uh, in various Cultures, um So At least Again, there is no biblical instruction on, you know, how to go about something like this. So Where the bible is silent we We should make You know, uh decisions by the wisdom of god While aligned aligning to The rest of scripture. So the bible doesn't, you know, uh, address such a specific situation So a man is already married. Maybe he has two or three wives. Now he becomes a believer Maybe his whole family becomes a believer, you know, he becomes a believer, which is very possible You know, what do we do and maybe he's jealous for god, uh, that is Where, you know, of course, we don't want to, uh, Disrupt things because you know, uh, the people who the families So let's say he has his example. Let's say he has three wives and Children from three wives. No, they're all are dependent on him as Husband and father So I think, uh, we just, I mean, we just have to apply the wisdom of god in a situation like that. So Now we would Clearly explain I mean to the congregation to that culture that look, this is what the bible teaches. We are not Compromising on the word of god But this is a practical situation where, uh, three families, you know About three families because each wife and children Are all connected because of this one man and all this happened before They got saved So we can't disrupt that these are real people real lives real household real families so At the same time, we're not going to prevent that person from serving god honoring god so You know, we would take one of two approaches One is Leave the families. I mean, let's say they're all fine together, you know And all of them leave them as it is But we state the truth to everybody and say that, you know We're not encouraging polygamy, but this is an already in pre-existing like we say a pre-existing condition And we let that person serve in whatever way possible and if god anoints and calls that person to be You know, whatever then be honor the anointing of god, you know, and and and because god is gracious So we honor the anointing of god. We recognize whatever god is doing and go on now There can be other situations for instance One situation we personally encountered when we were this time we were in the u.s And we had counter minister in Ecuador in south america and a man in a service A man came up to me and then he confessed he said And of course it was all in spanish through the interpreter and he confessed saying, you know, I am married I have a family here, but without the knowledge of this family I also, uh, you know got married to somebody else there and I have another family in that place. What should I do? So this was the kind of a different situation where it wasn't like, you know, they were all living happily together But uh, he actually did something wrong, but he has two families. He's responsible for two families so then This in this situation the second case that I just mentioned The answer is very clear, you know, you have to Stay with one family And the second family the second person you got married and um, you know, you You know, you did this You cannot Continue there. You have to stay with your, you know, the first wife But you have a moral responsibility to take care of that family financially So, you know, just kind of abandon and walk away, right? So, uh, so in that situation what I did tell him was You have to Stay with one family But fulfill your financial responsibility there because you know, you were part of The cause for that family to come into existence So, you know, we deal with that situation a little differently Whereas in the first scenario where we saw if you know, if it was families are living happily Then you don't want to break things down You know, unless that man is willing to make saying, okay, this lady was my first wife So I'm going to keep that family The second and third wife, you know, maybe I keep them separately But he has to continue to fulfill his financial obligation So from a practical standpoint, he has one wife children But from a moral standpoint, he is taking care of his second wife and third wife and those families so, you know It may be just a physical rearrangement of situations, but In reality, he's taking care of three families And you know, so We could have these options, but I think ultimately It's the grace of God is we look at it from the perspective of God's grace and God's mercy Without hurting people without destroying lives That's what I would I would put forward In response to that Right master. Thank you. Yeah I think it's it's it's not a it's it's kind of a complex situation Like practically you're playing and I guess some sacrifices also Yeah Have to be made and it's some tough things. Yes Yeah, I understand that. Thank you Very much back to you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you Yes, so Divya has asked us a question. So I'm James chapter four over seven Let's say submit yourselves then to God resist the devil and he will flee from you When it says in the scriptures to submit to God and resist the devil How this is done in a believer's life at an application level effectively Okay, so just again to give us the context from the scriptures from james chapter four If I have to read verse six and seven it says but he gives us more grace This is what the scripture says God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble He's actually quoting there from proverbs 3 34 He opposes the problem gives grace to the humble Submit yourselves then to God resist the devil and he will flee from you Divya, is it okay if I just read a couple more scriptures before prior Verse four and five is to understand better It says are you adulterous people don't you know that friendship with the world Is hatred towards God Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God Or do you think scripture says without reason that the spirit he caused to live in us and we's intense intensely But he gives us more grace This is why scripture says God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble Submit yourselves then unto God resist the devil and he will flee from you I Share my thoughts and I'll open it up for other faculty to share their insights on it But I feel like what james is james. I mean obviously knows his audience when he's writing this And I feels like you know that although these there is this group of people who call themselves believers You know they get desire Of the things of the world the pleasures of the world Etc etc Which I think in I I mean back in those days I understand things very clearly so And there was a lot of influence of the greek civilization which was all about their personal desires There you can do what you want as you know if you have a desire kind of a thing But that that's what the scripture says that God opposes that you can't serve two masters So to speak and and and then it comes down to verse seven which is Submit yourself Submit submission Is just an alternate word for humbling ourselves giving our all It's a sign of humility. I think that's why the previous verse says he opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble and And I've actually I mean I've been reading this book called absolute surrender by Andrew Murray He touches on the same subject where he says submitting yourself has everything to do with humility and And independence is kind of the source of pride that saying that okay, I I'm independent I don't need God for you know for him to give me my desires. I can help myself but I think what the scripture says is you know when we trust him when we solely depend for You know from our day to day basis You know it pleases it pleases him so I think a life application on a regular basis We go to him we look to him for everything for all our wants and all our needs and and you know And just having that attitude in our hearts where I can't do this on my own without you And that somehow pleases him So that's my insight. That's my thought and Yeah, if there's anybody from the faculty who would like to add to that, please feel free to I was thinking When we say submit to god, we are also submitting Cells to the authority of his word like the precepts and principles and instructions That the lord has laid out. So we are bringing ourselves aligning ourselves to his word. So You know, or whatever instructions are there? Whatever principles are there? We are bringing ourselves before And submitting ourselves to his authority So when we do that when we are not, you know, when we when we are intentionally not stepping out of that, but When we are intentionally aligning ourselves to the word of god to his instructions Then we are You know daily when we do that We are actually submitting to god and then with that comes the authority to resist the work of the enemy Yeah, thank you Also I mean I think go ahead. I know it's okay. Do you go first? Okay, I think one of the Practical ways of uh, is is also, you know, what we see in effusions 611, um, you know, we're said so familiar to all of us Putting on the whole armor of god that you may be able to stand against The vials of the evil one and that entire portion talks about The armor of god and what you can do to withstand The evil one so that we stand I think that's very familiar And also verse 18 in addition to the armor of god, it says praying always with all prayer and supplication in the spirit. So, um Putting on the armor as well as praying with all prayer and supplication in the spirit So that we are being watchful till the end to resist the work of the enemy Thank you Thank you, uh gene pasagex and uh pastor ocean just to add to the line of thought here While we're talking about submitting to god, uh, and then you know, james says resist the devil So I was reminded that uh in order for us to resist the devil effectively We have to walk in alignment to Gods gods will gods plan gods purposes and as pastor jack omar said In line with his word his precepts his principles. So once we have done that, um, I was reminded of Ephesians 4 27 And that scripture says Now give place to the devil. So once we have submitted ourselves to god, that's when we're in a good position We we are in a place where Give no place to the devil also means, you know, give the devil no opportunity. Don't give him any loophole Let there be no cracks. So you we are in a safe position Um, even if the enemy were to do something against us, you know, we are fully submitted to god And we are able to Resist the devil. We're able to gain victory over the enemy. So yeah, just this additional thought about Giving no place to the devil. Thank you Thank you, uh pastor jakes chain and uh pastor nancy. Thank you Okay, um All right, so the next question we have from is from diana diana. So There are many translations of the bible one. Why was Is there a need for this to uh What is the best way to explain this when asked by a non christian? Thank you, diana. Um, so just to understand the question, uh better. So, uh, When you say why are there many translations as in, uh, are you referring to the The versions or is it the languages the trans Why is the bible translated into so many different languages? Uh, probably the versions I didn't know what the right word word was to say translation of version. Sure. Sure. The version, okay That might mean Yeah, so just a quick quick Note there on that. So, um, You know just to understand how Bible translation is done Which gives us, you know a wide range of versions So very many, you know, I just put it in a very concise way there is there is, uh Two two main criteria one is structural integrity on one side and then there is, uh audience relevance So, um, when bible translators are, you know, working on the translations. They're saying We want to be struck. We want to do we want to maintain structural integrity meaning word for word translation or Do we want to be relevant to our audience? That means, you know I'm going to say what that verse is saying In a way that's very relevant to the modern day. That's relevance And then there is, uh, uh, the integrity of meaning That means, uh, while, uh, they're not so particular on word for word They want to maintain meaning Right. The meaning has to be correct So there are these three big criteria, right? So, so you we will have some versions that are word for word translations like the king james And you know many others king james the new king james They are word for word, you know So if that word is there that word will be You know in corresponding english word of words will be used So they are maintaining that kind of an integrity then there is Uh, you know maintaining pot and meaning. What was the pot? What was the meaning that was conveyed? So you have bibles that focus on that so, you know, um Nib and new american standard bible and uh the passion translation and they all try to do that. They are kind of You know a thought for thought meaning for meaning, you know, they they're not word for word But they're trying to capture the meaning And at the same time they're trying to keep it in modern language, you know In in today's language, and then you have bibles that are just purely okay We want to be relevant to the modern audience. We are not worried about word for word We are not so, uh, I mean the meaning is important, but we want to put it in modern language so We want to convey the thought in modern language. So you have modern Transits like the you know, we would put the living bible the Message bible Those kinds of versions which are they're they're not word for word. They're not, you know Hot for thought, but they are more let's be relevant to today's Audience so they're on that extreme So that's the reason why you have these white they're they're you know, they're serving a different kind of audience In in the whole process of Translation so sometimes you read the message bible and it's like, whoa, you know This seems so far from You know the king james what the king james says because they've just used totally different words and It almost is like It's not in the original text, but the the intent is different the intent is so the living bible is a paraphrased version So not even a translation. It's a paraphrase The message bible is you know, just being relevant to today's world. So you have this wide range It all depends on what the translators were trying to achieve so That's the reason and you can explain it because you know different people Can relate to different things. There are people who relate very well to the message bible or the living bible You know, because they just want something that's not heavy, but at least something that Gives them an essence Then there are those who Who want to study the bible? So they will go for the word for word translation They may even look up the hebrew and the greek because they want to study And then there are those who want to get the meaning or the thought and so they may you know go with You know some of the amp say they amplified fashion translation nasp things things like that So so that's the whole reason And For a person who wants to study the bible they better off to go to something that's very close to the original And yeah, I guess if you can put this To you know to a non-christian in a very simple way saying look, you know, just like you know You know a topic in science for a For kids in second or third grade that same topic is put on put in a very simple way Like it may not have all the details, but you give an essence of that Principal in a very simple way those who come to you know sixth and eighth grade They get into a little bit more details the same topic Those are in 12th grade same topic more detail And those are in university same topic and those who are doing research Same talk, but each in you know so much Greater detail and that's that's the difference Thank you pastor. I just have a quick follow on question Pastor so when a non-christian comes we are in the process of talking to somebody when a non-christian comes Which version Of the bible can we primarily recommend recommend them to read first time? If they if their english is good, you know fairly decent I would say we could you know start them off with the new king james are simply because It is close to the original and yet it is You know in plain english. It doesn't have the thousand the decent or all that But or If that is not so, you know, maybe in an ivy or something That the problem if we start them off in something or in a new american senate bible. So I would say New king james or the new american standard bible If the ring is not that great, okay, maybe an ivy if it's really not that great then okay You know you go to something very simple the problem getting them started with say like a You know A living bible or a message bible is then there has to be a lot of learning and maybe even unlearning that has to happen If at some point they you know move to bible study Uh, then they'd be wondering like, you know, hey, I read something message bible actually said something totally different So they have to unlearn that and then you know pick up. So I would say that, you know, if that english is decent start with You know new king james or new american standard bible Only if that english is very poor then you don't Give them something simple Yeah, thank you pastor Thank you pastor. Thank you diana Right, uh, we have another question from a zealot only. I think it's quite an important one. Uh, she says what's the biblical way of Disciplining someone who has already started to live in with his or her partner Before holy marriage Because I grew up in a baptist church and I noticed the pastor used to call their names out in front of all the church members that he she A name has been cut off from membership because They committed a fornication adultery, etc So what's the biblical way of disciplining? An individual or a couple That's who've been living together and Yes, jean, would you like to share thoughts on this? Yeah, um, thanks roshan. So I um, okay, so I'll probably just share a couple of insights and then Yeah, leave it to the rest. So I think first and foremost thing is maybe to be able to arrange private meeting with the offender so that it is You know, it can be done in love. They can be admonished and also You know also discussed and and spoken because whatever we We do needs to be done in love and even scripture says when when your brother sins Against you tell him his fault Between you and him alone So if if so, so that's I think the first thing that That would be the most practical thing if that fails It's then to be able to bring it to several witnesses So that again in scripture it talks of how You know, two or three witnesses every word needs to be established. So bringing it before witnesses Um, maybe then again, it is to then admonish and one um, I Think it's the final resort where the matter needs to be brought up to the entire church So the scripture is seen in Matthew 18 Where it talks about the offended brother and it says in 15. That's what I said 15 is where you arrange like a private meeting 16 which it says is bringing on witnesses and 17 Verses it says if he refuses to hear tell it to the church But he refuses even to hear the church let him be in you like the heathen and attacks collector. So So if we were to look at it collectively, it would probably need to follow You know a private meeting followed by certain witnesses being and then being admonished and then maybe Bringing the matter to I didn't know whole church probably to the to a leadership Um on what the next action could be Yes Thank you, jane. Thank you Anybody else like to add share some thoughts on that How would you go about handling the situation that And you know disciplining it up with our individual First of all, would you like to share thoughts on that? Oh, yes, I just probably give one point. Thank you Russian I just as I was just You know thinking about this I a verse came to my mind second Timothy 3 16 It says that all scripture is God breathed and is profitable for teaching for reproof For correction and for training in righteousness. So I think the first thing that we can do is bring out scripture um as to why it is you know important to live holy lives and You know focusing on the word While while also giving them the practical reasons as to why it's not right to Uh have a live in relationship, but when we bring out the scriptures um the scriptures God breathed and it You know, it gives us an opportunity to You know to bring correction in the right way because at times I feel that you know, uh, maybe they are already decided and they've uh, you know, this relationship has maybe You know, it's gone on for a long time and sometimes you know Practical You know advice will help. Yes, definitely. But when we You know, rely on the scriptures and and give them scriptures as it says in second Timothy 3 16 it The the word of God that is that has power to bring correction and training for righteousness. So So in the spiritual aspect even as we do the practical thing the spiritual is Firstly, this give them a teaching on the word of God as to why live in relationship is wrong and what are the effects of You know a live in relationship over the body of the mind and so hopefully And along with that also the practical aspects as jade mentioned To be taught to them as well. So that's just one thing. Thank you pastor. Thank you pastor. Paul Thank you gene This is literally I hope that answers your question. Do you have a follow up? Oh, yes. Thank you pastors. I got a much deeper insight in this And like after they repent, is it necessary the pastor need to call out their name that they have repent and their membership They are now again their name has been You know enrolled in the church something like that. Is it necessary to Tell the whole church congregation because I noticed while growing up, you know The person who have committed they used they used to cut their names out and after some period of time, you know, again the Use the pastors used to call up their name and the people who know the persons who committed that thing They used to stand In front of all the church Congregation and the church used to pray is is it the right thing to do or is it necessary? I just want to know Thanks, sir. So if I've understood correctly once is saying so once the individual The couple have repented from their ways. Is it necessary for For them to acknowledge that it publicly in in the congregation and should the pastor Mention their names and ask them to stand. Is that is that correct? Yes, pastor. Okay All right Pastor Jake so pastor shish What would you say? Yeah, I just I just feel that you know Going by matthew 18 and how we you know administer the correction and also, you know based on the word of god Of course, we are assuming that they are believers right and in the church. So then they will of course value the word of god and You know what we are saying And and we're also giving them time to change right every time we go alone tell them This is wrong according to the word of god. You need to change and then And then hopefully they'll repent or the other thing is they are continuing in sin Then the second thing is you go with the elders of the church and you know you talk to them Of course, it's a very sensitive thing, but you talk to them Like I would say that it's not necessary to you know kind of Bring it and announce in front of the whole church Because every time we go to them we can tell them the consequence, you know if you continue In this manner Then you You will be put out of fellowship, you know, you cannot continue to have fellowship because it's a serious thing Right, so you are you are living in a kind of a relationship brazenly And that is not what the word of god advocates So if you're continuing in this Tell them the consequence that the consequence is of course, personally you will be You know, you're destroying your lives, but then also, you know, we we cannot continue in fellowship in this manner Yeah So it's as serious as that. So, uh, we just need to tell them the consequence of it Um, and then of course if they still continue if they're in open rebellion and they're coming to you know, you can at the as a last resort You know, you tell them, you know, you cannot continue in fellowship You know in church, so I cannot continue with the membership. So it's it's reached that stage and So you tell them so I I think it's not necessary to announce in church publicly and tell them and so Let's say we put them out of fellowship and then they repent and change Then, uh, we, you know, take them back Um, of course the situation is different if the person is in, you know, a leadership position Let's say, you know, a life group leader or you know, serving in some of the ministry teams and you know, this is happening then Um, then of course people will need to be informed why, you know, we're doing this All right, yeah, Buster if you want like that Yeah, um yeah, thank you, you know, both gene and uh yourself, uh check I have, uh Addressed it correctly. I think there's yeah, just to sum it up. You know, there's the sensitivity to individuals, but then there is also the the truth and like, you know, you have to Bring grace and truth to bear on the situation the word of god and uh Then we cannot overlook the sin on basis of grace But at the same time you don't want to hurt the individuals in the process. So I think both, you know, you've What all of you have said paul and Yeah, it's all good. Okay. I think uh, we uh, just reached our time Uh, we're out of time right now. Uh, abhishek. We will uh, is it okay if we uh, take your question for the following week That Okay, I think uh, we'll do that Uh, so buster, is that okay? We take the question. Yeah, let's wrap up and prayer and Awesome. Yeah, let's all uh, let's all pray and bring the session to an end Father we thank you For this time lord of learning that we have they thank you for this privilege Father that we have this opportunity to come and learn from your word From your wisdom and your insights father I pray that you will continue to Pour out your wisdom and your knowledge even as we continue to study from your word lord We submit the rest of the day into your hands Even jesus' name. I pray amen Thank you everybody. Have a nice day. Okay. Bye