 This is Cochise from the Neon Temple. I'm here, DEF CON 30, 30 years of amazingness. Speaking of amazingness, I am here at the physical bypass village. Now, just so I can be clear, has this always been the physical bypass village? It has not. So we're a physical security village this year. The past few years, we were lock bypass village. So it was sort of based off of the lock pick village, which is the seminal village at DEF CON. And we decided we need something that's beyond just the lock picking. What can you do with accessing the hardware around that? And so we made lock bypass village a few years ago. And this year, we decided to expand to alarms and access control systems and enter phones and elevators and all sorts of other things in the physical realm. So we're now expanding to the physical security village. Okay. So it is a madhouse in there. Why go through the struggle? Why go through the problem of logistics? Why do this? Why give us this? Well, we thought it's an area that's been missing from DEF CON, right? They've got on the physical side, the lock picking village, which does an amazing job at teaching how you can get through the lock itself, but they're just so much around the lock, right? And so things like deviance talks, right? They're always very well received, but people can't really go and at least legally or ethically try it out themselves in many cases, right? So we're creating an environment where people can and get a feel for it and see just how easy it is and then take it back to their workplace and their homes and whatnot and try to get some of this stuff fixed. Now, how commonplace are these doors? How often do you see them? They're fairly often is the thing is, right? Cause when these are improperly installed, or as you can see when the actual dead latch is broken, then it's super easy. Just take a credit card even and just slap it open. Okay, so we got a credit card. What's this tool called? It's called a latch slip. Latch slip, and where would I find one? Well, you can get one at the village across the way over there. Okay. The store or like I said, you can make your own by just getting a hard card, cutting a little bit of a hook beneath it and then using that. All right, so you're probably familiar with shopping cart wheels that lock. So this one's locked in place. It can't actually rotate. So how this normally works is the perimeter of the parking lot has a buried wire that's sending out a signal at 7.8 kilohertz, a super low frequency radio signal. But 7.8 kilohertz is actually in the audible range. So you can broadcast at 7.8 kilohertz using an audio amplifier driving into a speaker coil. And when you do that, that speaker coil is giving off just a little bit of EMF, some radio frequencies. And that little bit of EMF is actually enough to talk to the wheels. So if you go to, I've got some QR codes, but if you go to the website, it gives you some audio files you can play. And hopefully this will work. But if you play the right thing and you hold it in the right place, you can control the shopping cart wheel with it. So right now this is locked and it can't open. But if I play the unlock signal, there we go. It unlocks and I can put it back into its place. Okay, so a random question. How many shopping carts do you have at home at this very instance? Legal counsel has advised me not to answer that question. Okay, so we'll go ahead and wrap this up. Real quick, tell me, so you've been doing this your entire adult career, right? Okay, so how does this change how you look at the world? How does this change how you as Bill think? How do you, like, do you look at the world as one big problem that needs to be solved, or how do you, how do I see the world through what you see? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's the hacker mindset, right? We're all familiar with that hacker mindset. You're looking at things not just for how they're intended to operate, but what can you make it do that is not intended? And so that's extending that into the physical world. So we do a lot of focus on access control systems and actually getting into places, but it applies to just about everything else, right? So consumer electronics and how to open things up. And when you learn how to bypass locks on doors, you can bypass interlocks and whatnot on all sorts of equipment. So it really does apply that hacker mindset to the physical space. And does this affect how comfortable you are walking around in day-to-day life, knowing the fragility of physical security? You know, that's a big misconception, I think, in the hacker community, right? As people are thinking about cyber. And with cyber, your threat surface is the entire world attacking you all at once. The most sophisticated attackers can spread out and attack everyone at once. And physical, you have to be there in person with the tools that take up space and weight. And you need to, you know, if you get caught, you're going straight to the slammer. You're not hiding behind a computer screen, right? So the threat model is very, very different in the physical world. Really, really niche, skillful attacks just aren't gonna get used on a low-cost environment. Now, is that something you think companies need to start thinking about differently is cyber threat models versus physical threat models? Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. And different companies have different levels of maturity in that understanding. But, you know, it really comes down to a business decision process at the end of the day of, like, is this cost of hardening our facility worth it compared to what we're actually protecting within it? Awesome, thank you, Bill. You've heard it here from me for as long as you've known me. You could spend $5 million on cybersecurity. If you spend $5 on a lock, all of your servers are in the back of my Honda. I'm Coach Ease. Bill, thank you. Thank you very much.