 Welcome. This is the Education Committee in the Vermont House of Representatives on Wednesday, January 12, and we are continuing our discussion on the state of our schools how are our students, our faculty, our staff, and our communities. And to that we are really pleased to have Jeff Fanon join us with that potential update so Jeff Fanon from the NEA welcome. Thank you. Good afternoon everybody. For the record Jeff Fanon executive director of Vermont NEA. Here today to talk a little bit about the state of schools. COVID it's been a busy week and a half. Just to put it bluntly the. It's been a bit of a chaotic week and a half since break. This was chatting with a parent. I've had conversations with parents and teachers in the last 24 hours that teachers are anxious they're scared, but they also the teacher with whom I chatted last night. Very much understands that they're in it for the kids. They're willing to do anything and everything for their kids they really are represent Brady I know that's it's been a bit of a confusion for most, but they're afraid they're scared and confused and the guidance isn't terribly succinct or easy to understand. And people interpret different things. So for example this week had a conversation electronically with some of the doctors about return to school once one has had COVID, and could one return when they are symptomatic. Past the five days, but still symptomatic and the answer is yes, in some cases, if they are improving. So in other words that the effects may runny nose may continue for some time, but that's a very subjective term, and it's less schools and the unenviable position of determining whether that is. If somebody is improving or has improved, they're fully vaccinated but still somewhat symptomatic. So the confusion is, is understandable. We are most for the most part most school employees are not doctors or epidemiologists although we're all becoming fast expert in the field I know what really triggered some of the confusion last week was the announcement Friday late of this state deciding to end the contact tracing. The email also talked about giving tests rapid test to unvaccinated students and unvaccinated staff. That did not go down well, I'll just say that so my board the Vermont NEA board which consists of teachers. The runs again and bus drivers para educators, teachers of all kinds all across the state met with Dan French Saturday morning. And about an hour, a little more than an hour with Dan French. That was, you know, vigorous conversation people were concerned that led to the statement we issued Saturday afternoon. And most of it dealt with the messaging frankly of how the change was messaged. I'm coral with the fact that contact tracing may be advisable that the medical community may think that that is the best approach right now. Unfortunately the medical community was not out front on that on Friday. And it left people wondering what was the reason for the real reason for not continuing with the contact tracing which we were told in October I think it was, was the way to go. The ground have changed, we understand that we're not blind to that fact we're in fact we're, we're very obviously aware of that teachers and school employees are right on the ground dealing with students and the, the Omicron virus it's just spiking. But then we, we just thought that it was important to have the medical community out front messaging that if the medical change if the changes result of medical advice based on the conditions on the ground today then that should have been the case and lead with that. The other piece. So there's three things that we're asking for essentially at this point. One is rapid tests for all students and staff need to be made available so that teachers don't bring into the school. The virus that students don't bring it into the school nobody's bringing it home to the school or even home to a loved one who may be at risk. So we make sure that we, we keep each other safe. And we think that the rapid tests are at least a good form of protection, or at least knowledge base. So we think that's important so that's going to be done at the school level and we think the state has got to have a hand in that and getting those tests out there I know that they're issuing tests and sending them out and you can sign on to the Department of Health website this morning because it was starting at 10am to get your tests sent home, but we think that ought to be used at school. Excuse me distributed at school, so that we make sure that everybody has it little concern that we're hearing from educators is many of the children who are most at risk, not for the coven virus but at risk. There are other reasons. They're the ones who won't likely take the test at home, they don't have the parental supported home. There's not a firm fixed family structure maybe that that we think of. So the teacher that I spoke with last night she said, she's got a, she's in elementary school. She said she she has a student who's raising a younger child at home essentially. And so the thought of sending that child home with a test. It's not likely to be used or use well so shouldn't that test be taken at the school on the way in. Things that we ought to think structurally about how we do this and how we do this well, because the realities on the ground or not that every kid can take a test home, or will take it at home. So we need to own that and comprehend that obvious shortcoming in the system. So what we're looking for our high quality masks, although cute masks, we all made a year and a half ago. The cloth ones. We did them in my house. Not me, thankfully. But they, they don't work as well as higher quality masks, and we think the higher quality mask KN 95s at least ought to be distributed at the school level for all students and all staff. We have the resources from the federal government we ought to apply them in that regard, and get that up to speed quickly. I'm going to pause here I see hand from representative Brady. Yes representative Brady. I have a question specifically about the masks. The goal that students would be wearing, I mean it's kind of a silly question that students would be wearing the high quality masks, and then are we talking about requiring it just again anecdotally. I see high schools that really struggle to work a paper or thin mask appropriately so I think there's a couple issues one is the supply of the masks and then the others who is wearing them adults generally are and are taking them at my school we have plenty. But is it that the adults want the kids wearing them to. And is that going to happen, just with asking or is that something that has to be mandated which would obviously get a whole lot more complicated. Well, certainly the school locally can make that decision about to mandate the mask I think you know there's no question about it there are school rules that we all adhered to back in my day and currently, there are other school rules. And, and one of those could be a mask requirement. So, you know, I think that that's easily done at the local school level I think it ought to be a mandate, frankly. People think it's better coming from the local superintendent or principal in the school. The notion is people should be wearing masks represent Brady and that's, and it ought to be and what we're hearing and I'm sure you've seen it in your school. The kids are not wearing them that well and people teachers educators bus drivers are all tiring of telling the kids pull the mask up where properly get it up over your nose. And wearing the mask in the chin does not work really that well. We know that. So I think wearing the mask properly and requiring it is the right way to go. Yes. Can I push that a little further and but who is requiring it because I think this is where it gets tricky. And it's going to be even harder if it's been on the schools. But the quality of the mask. Yeah, so understanding that the quality of math of the mask matters. We think the state should use its purchasing power to purchase enough masks for the school system at large. So, you know, full stop there as to whether there's a statewide mask mandate. You know, that is something the governor has said he's not willing to do and but it, it's left it to local schools to do and I think, you know, I can't change what the governor is doing necessarily. I think certainly the schools could do that on their own and require it. And they should. Help schools like if we guidance said students should be wearing, not just a mask but this kind of mask to then give schools coverage to say in, you know, and my school's doing it like yes please send your kid to school and a well fitting appropriate mask, but most kids aren't wearing. Okay, and 95 masks. I get that that's what I understand the meta. I'm not a doctor I don't I have not spoken with doctors about specifically. I've heard from the medical community that we need to be wearing better quality mask I heard Dr Levine say that the other day I think last week. So I do think there's been a shift in that we understand now that we need to be wearing better masks. I would suggest it's it's more recent. And so the messaging of that is important to come from the medical community because they are the medical experts. And I've worked very closely with Dr Lee. From UVM in the spring and summer over the mask mandate as a result of the emergency, the governor's, you know, emergency order that allowed the guidance then at the time that was issued I think in June of 2020. And it did have a mask mandate in it. And that order expired. And so that mask mandate went away. We weren't at the time aware that having better quality masks were advisable. I think in hindsight we might have put that in there. But we're all learning as we go in fairness to everybody and if that's what they're advising I think we should make that part of their guidance to schools yes. And I'm not saying K and 95 or better is the way to go. It would be helpful to schools if they were to say that clearly confidently and in stated as such. Just summarize. For the most part teachers want for unhappy with the way that the message was delivered and some of the lack of clarity of the guidance they're unhappy with that but now that we do have the message and we do have more guidance coming. What you're asking for is rapid tests be made available in the schools which we did here and I'm happy to say we do have a schools nurse in the room at the moment. And so the rapid tests are made available in the schools which I did hear from the secretary is in process we'll be following up with that. And you want high met high quality masks available that the K and 95 variety. Correct. And lastly, I'll just say the third item we think is important is to give superintendents, excuse me, the flexibility to pivot to remote or close the school. And in the interest of the well being of the school community without penalty. Right now I think there's a fear that they won't get waivers. If they close the school. And I think in the moment we're in with with COVID and Omicron and just truly in the in the rush that we're in right now. I think that they need to have that flexibility to pivot to what makes sense for their local school district. They need to get it safely. It's not a long term solution. We're not suggesting that but in in the immediate moment they need to have that. That assurance that they're not going to be penalized if they do. What's in the best interest of their schools, and it may be a preemptive closure. We, you know, I think there's nothing wrong with that. In the particular moment I am Dan French has said that they will grant waivers most likely if it's, you don't have enough staff or enough students to conduct school. But that's sort of after the fact, but he was he was quite clear with us on Friday, a group of us met with him. And I think again on Saturday that preemptive closures would not be waived. And I think that that has made superintendents perhaps a little bit nervous and anxious about well is this a preemptive one is this is not, I think they need to be given some authority quickly to allow for them to make those decisions on the ground. In the best interest of the school community. I'm really taking that up. We've drafted some language that we do it as part of session law will be hearing later as to what which is the best way to do that but I also wondering if you can stay in the room. I realized that we have. We have. I'm sorry, we're going here. We have Becca McCrae here is who is she's head of the president of the school Vermont School Nurses Association, and I think we would really love to hear from her on how great things are around in the world of school nursing. And perhaps if that's not the reality we're happy to listen to what is the truth. Our question where we where we are. Yes, we are interested in hearing about how are the, how are the schools, how are the students, how is the staff, how are the communities, and are the things that you would like us to do, and prefer that we did not do as well. So, if we can, you could just give us an update will be great. Yeah, so, as the president of the VA and as the district lead nurse of Burlington school district. I want to share with you that things right now are really stressed, and to be on stress, I'm going to say, I think we are at the breaking point of school nurses I'm sorry if I get emotional but I'm so tired right now. We're at a breaking point right now. And we are thankful for the partnership that Secretary French has allowed us to have with him this year and decision making. But we are at a point where school nurses are ready to quit. We are already a stress profession because we compete with hospital pay to hire nurses in schools. And we are working around the clock, literally, we have had, I personally have not had a day off before Thanksgiving, including weekends, and I'm working 5am to 9pm, every day. The new guidance that came out yesterday was a blow. It needed to say no more contact tracing period, and that tests are available to everyone for the whole week period. And to have a system by which everyone is picking up test kits to test, where it's not a burden on the school nurse to continue contact tracing. Our theme throughout this whole year has been how taxing contact tracing has become. And the reason we created a partnership with Secretary French was because it was becoming too much. And every time the state tried to help, it actually created more work for us. And so it created more hours of work instead of lessening the burden. I think the fact that we are still in a mode of evolved contact tracing where we have to still figure out what kids were in the classroom. What kids in the high school setting, how many classes they have and what kids are there to get tests in the hands of those kids, instead of having it be a simple. My request to Dan French and Mark Levine on Monday was make it simple, have every child pick up five tests on a Friday so that they have weeks worth for the next week. Make it simple. There's no other rules and regulations. And that might be because they don't have enough supply. There are probably things that I don't know that go into that decision making. But I think in terms of teachers and para educators, they're scared. They've been scared since the beginning of this pandemic, they don't understand the science, there is not enough education, and the disease is quickly moving and changing, but their stations at school and their, and their interactions at school have changed. And so therefore, their risk to this disease also has not changed because the mitigation strategies are still in place. And teachers don't understand that they're still safe. So it's hard to. Like all over the place. And every single person, such a personal situation also impacts their level of anxiety. I had a teacher this morning come to me in tears because she found out a student was positive in a classroom she had been in. She wasn't even near the student. She wasn't in the student's duration for a whole day, but her anxiety stemmed from the fact that she cared for her elderly father who had an underlying medical condition. And she didn't want the burden of being the one taking the disease from school to home. So I think there's a lot of misconception out there as well. But the reality is the anxiety is real. We need to address it. We need to, we need to say, I'm sorry, you're feeling that way. That's what I said to this lady. I said you have every way right to feel anxious. But I'm going to tell you the things that are keeping you safe and how you can continue keeping yourself safe. We need more of those conversations happening at a wider level. We need more behavioral interventions in schools. I think that the behaviors of students has risen. I think the mental strain on children, because it's also mental strain on parents, there's just been, I'm sure that everyone in this room has been affected by this in some way, shape or form. And I think we all can agree as a society, we're tired. And, and we just need to support one another. And I don't have any particular asks of you really accept that contact tracing needs to go away, because all it does is create more anxiety in a situation in the school that can be mitigated through testing in the community level. I don't know if anyone has questions, but I'll stop there for the moment. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today and you're going to make me cry thinking about what the nurses are dealing with as well. I'll just give you one more snapshot of what we're dealing with here. Okay, so when we were doing Delta in the fall, we were having like five cases a week, seven cases a week. I literally right now I'm sitting on 20 cases, we did 28 cases on Friday, we did 30 cases on Saturday, like it's just, it's insane. It's, you can't move fast enough to get right now with these 17 cases, or I'm sorry, we're at 20 cases. So in the 20 cases that we have today, we haven't even started contact tracing because we're trying to get tests in the, in the hands of kids who are on our current test to stay list, so that we can, we can relieve the stress of the pulling and their own position to help a test to stay in the morning to have kids be in school. There are so many strains on so many levels, because there aren't enough people to begin with and when we first started the test to stay conversation are a very first thing that we said as the BSSNA was we support test to stay, but it cannot rest, it's too much burden on the school district. And that was ignored. I'm going to be, I'm sorry I'm blunt, but it that was ignored. And the ignore the ignorance of that was the effect. And what we were told verbatim was, we know it's more work, but we need it to be done. And everyone in this pandemic is doing more than they signed on for is basically the message we got. Let me just clarify something with you. Yeah, my understanding is that the guidance removes the requirement to contact trace. It doesn't remove the requirement to contact trace it involves contact tracing. So, currently, before the new guidance came out, we would take a positive person we would determine what days they were in school while infectious. We would take their classroom and say, who did they sit near, who, who did who they sit near but for an elementary school classroom. It's the whole class because it's four hours or longer that they're together, they're all considered close contact. There's a new guidance where they're saying that we don't have to contact trace but anyone that that child was in class with the close contact. We still have to do the same data pool of who was in school that day in that classroom and who is the close contact in that class. In our high school and middle school, who we were doing via seating charts who were you near, and we had maybe five close contact. Now we have the whole list of students in each of those classes. So a whole list of students times eight periods a day. It's more people that need to be determined close contact that you then have to contact all those people. It's still the same amount of work. It might have quickened it up a little bit, but it's still contact tracing. You can call it whatever you want but it's still contact tracing because you still have to figure out who was in the classroom when they were exposed. Representative Austin. Yes, I'm just wondering is the anxiety among the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Yes, and most people out. Yeah, most, most of our employees are vaccinated, but the anxiety level. It doesn't matter whether you're back there or not it is through the roof representative Brady. I just want to see if I can get really clear and would you say at this point test to stay should go away and we should essentially assume all kids are in test to stay regularly because of the transmissibility so they should have access to testing weekly, if not daily. And therefore you don't need a program around it but we need the amount of tests in order for all students to be testing regularly. Correct. And I honestly don't think that the schools need to be the hub for that. I think that in general, people should be testing regularly in the public. Like, not just for school, but for any event you're going to you should be testing. So I think tests should be accessible in the community regularly. But that's part of their plan I did. I did listen to the press conference yesterday when they were like, and test will can be mailed to your home. But I don't think this is just a school issue. I just want to put that out there. But yes, I don't think test to stay is required because if parents have access to test that they can test on a daily basis. Then it's the parent responsibility. We can get the test in their hands, but we have to trust that people are doing the right thing. Representative James. Thanks I'll try to, I'll try to turn all these swirling thoughts into a question. About about test to stay. I had also been hearing. I think similar to what you had said Becca that this was placing a very big burden on school staff to be administering test to stay in the schools. So on school nurses and on teachers and on staff that were, you know, running the program. In the shift to, you know, basically in shifting this program to the homes. What I worry about with what you just suggested is testing supply, you know the supply of kits. And, you know, from what I can tell about the pilot program that they're rolling out to try to get kits directly to Vermonters. I know it's like you can have one, one packet with two kits in it or two packets with two kits in it or something and so I wonder if, if supply is going to be a problem with test kits, wouldn't it make sense to prioritize schools and and school children for that limited supply. Yes, and I would also remind the committee that test today was designed for unvaccinated people only contact and with the change in guidance from the CDC and Vermont Department of Health. With the new year. It has changed the concept of today, because now all the people who are vaccinated more than six months ago also have to be enrolled in test to stay. So the numbers have increased significantly at the high school this morning we tested 171 kids. Our middle school we tested 150 kids. So the people who were in that first wave of vaccination and the 12 to 17 year olds are now considered unvaccinated test to stay. And the, okay, thanks. Yeah, sorry. That's probably your question. No, it did I yeah and I guess I was, I was not aware. Until you know I heard you this morning that I had sort of thought that the guidance was shifting us away from from. You know, I guess I wasn't clear on the, I thought the contact tracing was going to get significantly less burdensome but it sounds like that's not the case. Okay. I definitely heard that there was a that the degree of contact tracing that you've been doing really doesn't produce the result that a very important result with the current variance so that made a lot of sense to us when we heard it so I am disappointed to hear that you're still feeling the burden of it. Representative Conlon. Thanks, I do tune out I had to tune out for a second so I might miss the answer to this question. I just think that if we had unlimited supply of home test kits. I assume that the goal would be to, to remove this from the schools completely. And I suspect that we're doing a little bit of a hybrid because of supply issues. I think we had in a perfect world we could just let the, let this be a community issue. How confident are you and your colleagues that the, basically the community at large will sort of do what's asked of them, and be, you know, upfront with their use of the information. In the beginning of this pandemic school nurses have always felt that we weren't very confident in people doing the right thing, which is why there are so many rules for re entering school and you're sick right now. I think that, ultimately, we have been told being this pandemic, we have to trust that people are doing the right thing. And with the newest guidance, not requiring antigen testing after five days. It's, it's a recommendation not a requirement and so this is out of our hands really and with a new variant, it is also so easily transmissible that the time by the time you realize that it's there already been through there, and it's already affecting people before you even get the word out that they're a close contact sometimes even. So, ultimately, with this new variant, the thought process in the public health world is that the majority of people are going to get this variant in a very quick timeframe, which creates herd immunity. Eventually, and then we'll hopefully see a downward trend in COVID period. And that statement you just made, which I think we're probably as a society evolving toward. That's kind of like saying, let's just treat this like the flu, people are going to get it or they're not. Correct. Let's let's just sort of back out of this completely. How do we treat it as if it's any other communicable virus that we deal with on a day to day basis. Correct, which is a mind shift, right. So like we all have to mind shift from this is a deadly disease to this is now endemic. This is like the flu now. Yes, kids are going to come to school sick, but guess what they were during COVID too. So we're going to, we're going to shift back to what we were before COVID in a few short weeks, hopefully. And I guess that, and I just think this is a fascinating debate public health debate. And, and frankly, I'm evolving toward that point of view as well and I think we're seeing college campuses evolve that way. But that doesn't help the teacher that came to you in tears, concerned about contracting COVID. Yep. But I just sort of wonder how is that any different than fear of contracting the flu and bringing that home. So I think the other piece of education that we really need to widespread is that every kid, every teacher, every para that gets this disease is now an immune person to the disease, making the school and the classroom a more safe environment than prior to anyone having COVID. Yeah, but thanks very much very, very interesting. Thank you and thank you represent common great questions representative Austin. Yep. So my understanding just watching Dr. Fauci and you know these news conferences is that the vaccine was never touted as preventing you from getting cold. It was, it was touted as that you wouldn't be hospitalized and you wouldn't die. So I'm just wondering how many do we have numbers of teachers who have been hospitalized or children who haven't hospitalized that are vaccinated. I don't have those numbers. The public health office may have those numbers to my knowledge, to my knowledge, only one child in Vermont has died of COVID and they were unvaccinated. I don't have any numbers of teachers or any subset group of that nature. But I will say that in the contact tracing work we've been doing, where we have a classroom that has a lot of kids that have had COVID. Now on in this, like of the Delta variant. Now in this way, there aren't as many positives in those classrooms. Thank you. Thank you. So you're what you would like to see is that we just be done with contact tracing. Generally, and you'd like to see antigen tests available to to kit for kids at school that they could pick them up at school. Can you help us a little bit with the need for masks and how kids are doing with wearing wearing masks and 95 months. So I think that this is a district by district difference, like there's, there's a wide variety of what what people are doing right so like I can tell you that my district is ordering can 95 masks for everyone period. I've already given them out to teachers and Paris, but we don't have them yet for kids, but we are ordering them for kids. And that was my superintendent's decision. But I think with the science and what we've been hearing in the last few days and weeks about Omicron is that the cloth masks are not as effective and that the can 95 are better is what the science community is saying. But we also have to remember that schools have more mitigation strategies in play than the general public. So I think that people forget forget that sometimes like that, we have been requiring these mitigation strategies to be happening in schools whereas like if you go to the bank or the grocery store or restaurant. They're not requiring them as much. And then it has to be masked at all times, hand washing is encouraged like multiple times a day distancing is encouraged as well. So I think that there isn't. We just have to remember that there are those other mitigation strategies I think the biggest mitigation strategy contact tracing is a mitigation strategy. We have been doing I think the other mitigation strategy that isn't talked about a lot is that we ask people to stay home when they're sick. And some people make it a policy. I think that for too long in our world, we have all gone to work right and we've all spread our germs at work. And I think that even with this new variant, when Delta came out, we were seeing teachers come to school sick because they thought they had allergies which with the first variant, you could do. And with the second variant because running nose was a symptom everyone thought they had allergies but they were really carrying COVID school. So I think, you know, that is one of the biggest strategies and I in high schoolers were seeing people come to school sick because they're afraid of missing class and missing work and getting caught behind. We asked high schoolers just that just so you know that we asked a group of high schoolers why they thought their peers were coming to school sick and what they've been hearing from their peers who are sick that come to school and that's what they said. That they felt too pressured. They felt that they would fall behind and that the teachers will be mad if they weren't there. But in terms of supply you're seeing you're okay in terms of staff, working on students. And then the other other concern is just the ability for a child to wear and 95 mask for extended periods of time. That is a kindergarteners can't wear mask all day, like that's a myth. They're down here. They're down here in their mouth. Right. So, yeah, they have them on but are they wearing them properly and correctly in the way that they're supposed to be know. And, and I'll say that high schoolers are horrible mask wearers. They wear them like this to be cool. Like, yeah, let's be cool. So I think that, you know, I'm always about let's educate people, let's get the message out so that they know and can make an informed decision about what they're doing. So we need to educate them and I said this to my school district all the time we need to educate them on proper mask wearing again like the more we message it out the more we say it the more successful they're going to be at proper mask wearing. And the student representative to our school board actually said that there is a student group that's very concerned about the mask wearing at our high school. So there is definitely also student anxiety and fear around what their peers are doing or not doing correctly. In terms of but I just want to be really clear like there are districts that probably don't have these things in place so that Burlington's doing but what their resources are. Thank you. Any other questions at this time, representative Austin. I want to say thank you so much Becca. You know I think the committee does too about the work you're doing the work that school nurses are doing we so appreciate this extra burden I mean I was an educator and I know how the work that nurses did just in a normal day without any pandemic so I just, you know, just want you to know how much I appreciate it. I, and I believe the committee does too. Thanks, I think that the only thing that that just you just made me think of is that I want to be really clear with you guys that the regular work that school nurses usually do in schools is not being done. So that also impacts the anxiety of families that have kids with health needs. It impacts students feeling like they have to go into a nurse's office really quickly. Whereas like we would have usually spent our time trying to help the student trying to make them feel comfortable in school with their whatever needs they had. So that's not being done, but it's definitely not being done to the degree level of which we would like it to be done and what our profession has always been. There's a huge tax caused by contact tracing and tests today that has impacted families and teachers in a negative way that we haven't even looked at yet, because we're all in reactive mode not in response like reflective thinking mode. Thank you. Just wondering if you can stay just a little bit longer I see representative common. Yeah, I'm sorry I don't know what our timing is here and I don't want to belabor things, but it was mentioned. She's not. I'm good. I do have a two o'clock meeting to go to somebody told me the other day that in New Hampshire mass aren't required in school or in many schools mass aren't required. I would have to share data to show whether that's a difference one way or the other. And I think my real question for you is if you were to do if you were to just run that your school, as you saw fit. What would you do about masks. I would have universal masking. You would. I would. I think. I agree with the American Academy of Pediatrics here, like it doesn't matter what percentage of vaccination status you have in your school it doesn't matter. If you like that, like the percentage doesn't matter, like you need to protect everyone because this disease doesn't care for vaccine or not. It doesn't care if you are susceptible that it can catch be caught by you so that it can remain in existence to long enough to spread to another person to remain in existence. So, you know, universal masking is definitely something we need to continue through Omicron and I think that I don't have any data for you on mass schools versus non mass schools but I would also wonder like, what is their disease rate in the school versus mass schools like I don't, I don't know. But I do believe in universal masking, because of the fact that the disease doesn't care to vaccinate or not. The other factor is that it's asymptomatic. So, if everyone in this room tested positive we would all have different symptoms. Some of us would be asymptomatic some of us would be super symptomatic some of us would be in bed for three days some of us would have a fever for a night and be fine the next morning. Like I have seen the gamut of and heard the explanation from positive families, and none of them are the same. Every son of Williams. Yes, I was just wondering if there is much of a concern when the mask wearing isn't staying in place and it's always hands to face adjusting those masks. Is that not a potential risk for creating germs, where they wouldn't be normally. Yeah, I think if you I think this is where I'm sure Jess has heard this like teachers are constantly reminding kids to put their mass on and I'm sure that that deteriorates instruction time, like and how much curriculum you can actually get through because you spend most of the day reminding kids to stop touching each other and make sure that your mask is up. Please put your mask up and I can't even tell you how many masks we go through a day. We were going through 75 masks a day in one building, just because kids were losing them at recess and they were, you know, like there's a million reasons why they need a new mask but chewing on them is like number one. I think, I think that you know when we when we talk about the nervousness. It's really, it's really interesting to observe this like in one school I have people who are super nervous about it and then I have a totally another school where the teacher doesn't have to enforce mass wearing in her classroom and it becomes a larger problem among her colleagues in the building, because then they feel they're at risk because their colleague isn't enforcing the same rules that everyone else is supposed to be following. I think that's where it's come and I think if we can remind ourselves and each other like we are only as good as the whole right so that's but it but it's definitely had an impact on on learning time with the with a number of reminders and sending them all down to get a new mask and we have some classrooms that have masks in them all the time because that's how how frequently they go through them. Thank you. Thank you. We are going to be remaining in touch with the agency of education we are going to be following up on the availability of tests. We understand that there's the rapid antigen tests but there's also the lamp tests I think that they're looking at possibly using in schools and making them available my understanding is making them available in the schools as well as in the homes was the recent testimony that we heard. You're finding masks are sufficient and I believe that there's a way to order online through the agency but that might not be correct. I thank you so much we may want to check back in with you. And I think that representative Austin did speak for the for the committee that we are incredibly appreciative of your work and, as I say to so many people in education please don't quit. I'm not. I'm trying not to quit but it's no. It's one of those, like the brain right now, and I am not the type of person that will quit because I have too many people relying on what we're doing. But, but something's got to give and I tell this Secretary French almost bi-weekly, like this is not sustainable this is not okay we need to find a solution. And that's still my message. This is not okay, like working that many hours a day and a week is not okay. And you're in touch. You're in touch with Secretary French on a fairly regular basis are you in one of his sort of small groups. Yeah, so the BSFNA leadership team is in a nurse advisory group with him every other we have a bi-weekly, bi-monthly meeting. Okay, great. Thank you so much for taking the time to have your voice there. Not that they always make the shift we want, but at least it's nice to be a part of the conversation. Thank you. With that, I see it's 207 and I know you have another meeting so I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you all for what you're doing. I hope that we can meet again. We're all working on it. Bye bye. Well, I have for testimony right now, just checking in with the committee. We are, I am going to be speaking with with AOE about a little bit more in depth conversation as to where we are with testing and masks. I think we have things we can follow up in terms of contract contact tracing as well. I can see that I must have misunderstood what I had heard. Anything else before we go offline? This will be it for today. Tomorrow, Representative Austin. Quickly. I'm just assuming you said the BAA letter from our committee was edited and it had all the things we kind of had asked for. Yeah, the letter, the letter should be posted on our website now I think. Right now I have a chance to post it yet. I did put in a delay for a finance but we might have to do that by a bill they might not want to put that in the BAA we might have to do a bill. Tomorrow, so we have floor at three o'clock. Tomorrow we are going to continue our conversation about the state of our schools. We have Secretary French on again. We're kind of working because we heard quite a bit from him today. We do have him again tomorrow. We're in conversation to see if he might want to participate in our conversation about the miscellaneous COVID bill. That where we are looking at addressing the remote days in comparison to the work that he is considering the waivers and to see what what we think is the best route to go. And I am following up. I told you on that. And I don't have anything more to say. Anything from anybody. I've got a question. It's actually for the teacher if she would respond to, well, I just, I'm curious, do we have to worry about teachers striking or a mass exodus from the. Because I wonder how many are on the brink, you know, yeah. Unfortunately, we've lost that. The teacher association has left the room so we don't have we can't get that from him but certainly I would feel free to reach out to him directly. Question. Sorry, it's chaos every house. When Representative Hooper was asking are we should should we be worried about a teacher striking our one teacher leave it was. It was symbolic. Yeah, okay, I get it now. Yes. I don't get the sense that you we have to worry about teachers striking right now. I think that the sort of burnout is a huge range. You know, we're starting to be more turnover at my school than normal couple of really better teachers are already taking leave next year. I've seen a few of those on the school board that we've been approving. I don't think it's going to be a mass exodus but I think it's going to be a, you know, a trickle that will impact us because we're so small to start with. We just have some serious morale rebuilding work to do. I don't know how but. Well, my other question is, what do you think would be the the collective reaction to that testimony from the teaching community you think most teachers would agree with the bulk of what she just said or do you think there'd be a little resistance to sort of a cultural shift. Yeah, I think the nurses but just by the way. Right, right, but I just think to me it's what she's what she's highlighting is what I think we'll develop into a cultural hurdle you know if we have to convince the teachers to kind of embrace us a new normal. That could be hard. I think it's really next, you know, I think some teachers are there more than others, I think those. Those, especially those kids under five, which is true everywhere right now, you know, in a lot of sectors are feeling it the most acutely. I know my school that is definitely the teachers who are the most stressed are those that one their child kids are just open and close open and close like on a Roman basis and then they're concerned because our kids are in vaccine. So, you know, those teachers I think would have the hardest time with some of the things in terms of just give up contact tracing all together. That she's spot on this you know psychologically, even if it isn't totally rational some are so afraid of their safety or for their family safety. And like the issue is spot on about you know even something as simple we say buying the mask is only part of the problem. Our people wearing them are kids wearing them are you know it is exhausting. I could easily say a thousand times that I put a mask blue mask. I do this and look at kids and do this all day long, all day long. But they, you know, they're not we need some messaging from all levels and national level the state level about you know the importance of wearing them and a big review of why that's so important so I think people would agree with a lot of what she was saying, letting go of some things right now for a lot of teachers I think but also doing really hard and they would feel like. Yeah, but especially if people who are working from home are telling me to let go of things. And with hundreds of kids every day that feels that that feels difficult. But a reminder, but with the wonderful ideas that we want to come up with this is the year. Just is this the year to put anything more on schools and teachers. I think we got an answer. I will say I do think that like being a field being heard and some messaging here is also useful, like, you know, even if we can't do anything to at least acknowledge, you know, the extent of the challenge and for you know the school nurses to be heard. I think is everything is important right now. Be kind be kind to your teachers, educational workers and help your workers.