 from Sumaya College of Engineering and I will be talking with respect to the University of Mumbai it belongs to I mean KJ Sumaya College of Engineering belongs to Mumbai University. I am from Computer Engineering Department Assistant Professor there from last 9 years and I will be talking about the syllabus, lesson plan, experimentalist, university exam papers and the institute's term test papers. And before actually going to the topic I like to share my thoughts and I am always say this satisfied teacher now also because always when I used to go to the class since there are a spectrum of students from low grade to average and the experienced one I mean the more excellent or brilliant students I was never felt that I am satisfying the needs of all the students and I am always worried what is the solution for this can I alone be able to solve this problem but there was no solution as I was having any dream or anything like that. But today I am very happy that after 6 months where there is will be a some solution for this and I am a part of the solution I am very happy and thankful to Dr. Patak sir. The syllabus is actually given by the university and it is sent to all the colleges and they have the classes given it is for all the branches that is number of lectures per semester is 3 and the second semester is 2. Actually in the university we have semester 1 and semester 2 and it is called as CP 1 as a computer programming language 1 and computer programming language 2 and in the first semester we have C and C++ and in the second semester we have Java and the first semester we have only 3 hours given for C and C++. And coming to the evaluation system we are having examination of 3 hours 100 marks question and term of 25 marks then total 125 marks given for the subject. Then coming to the syllabus we are having 6 modules coming from I will be starting with the structured programming using C++ and the end we will be having object to introduction to object oriented program. In the beginning we will be starting with the concepts of structured programming using C++ only but we will not be using the any object oriented concept like classes and all. So we will be starting with you can say the programming simple programming languages you start from the fundamentals like characters, identifiers, keywords data types and everything and the number of hours is also given by the university. But this number of this is just the guidelines depending on the teacher who is taking this subject they can change the number of hours when they take actually or when the plan in the beginning of the semester that is given in the teaching plan. Then we have data input and output the control statements if else while do and the loops then we have functions and arrays we have in the end point or structures and unions and at the end two units are given for object oriented programming and again in that the late binding and the advanced topics of the object oriented. So totally we will be having a 14 weeks of semester of 3 hours per week so totally nearly 42 lectures we will get. And again we can take 35 to more than 35 to 45 lectures or 42 lectures we get excluding the holidays. And coming to the term work term work includes 25 marks and this term work marks is divided into 10 marks for the written test and in a semester of 14 weeks there will be two tests conducted one at the mid of the semester and one at the end of the semester of 25 marks each and that will be at the end converted into 10 marks. And usually in our college we take the two tests and the average and then we convert that into 10 marks and the 5 marks is given for the attendance because this university feels and everybody feels if the students are attending regularly he has to be rewarded for that and hence the marks they get also increases. And documentation and assignment this is respect to the practicals they we perform the students perform given for 10 marks. And this subjects CP1 we are having the university says we have to conduct 20 experiments conduct 20 experiments from the syllabus and if required teachers can give their own assignments. So 20 experiments in the 14 weeks so we can expect the students to complete minimum two to two experiments in a practical once practical searcher. And they give textbooks and their references books this is a university question paper of May 2008 last year it is a 100 marks you can see your first question is made compulsory of 20 marks usually the questions we can expect 7 questions one is first question that is of 20 marks all the questions carries equal marks but the first question is made compulsory and all other questions carries even the 20 marks but out of 6 sorry 5 the students can attempt any 3 questions usually in the first question like objective type 2 3 marks questions are expecting the outputs are from the given programmer as so that the students can at least score marks in that and other part we can expect programming as well as the description. This is from the you know December 2000 paper. What I think is if you turn over the next page here also you had this question explain storage class if one programming example. Yes sometimes I think in the university our university we can expect a 60 or 40 percent of the repeated questions repeated questions at least 40 percent I say you have been conducting JEE for 50 years and we don't repeat a single question but it can be like this also because for the students the syllabus is vast and they will not be having how much is to study how much depth we are supposed to study. This is one of one of the major worries that almost all educationists in the country have that this pattern continues how do this is one of the reasons why because I thought this practice died in 70s and I was a student this used to happen sir so in my first year I studied all subjects all syllabus in second year I could study only 60 percent of the syllabus and get 85 marks because 6 out of 10 was the standard this thing and then again I had to study because the questions there in those days were repeated from alternate years in the past. Only in one paper I remember building materials there's some crazy paper sitter who did not repeat questions from alternate years but repeated a question from the second year prior to this so I had no clue on that I still don't know how I passed that subject but that so I had to make up for all that when I came to IIT as a student I was chewed up completely I survived just anyway that's a that's a university patterns you can do one of the objectives is that when you go back and when this portal and all actually becomes operational you should then make presentations to your own senate or hotel team saying look we must at least change this pattern but because you see university does not insist that the questions must be repeated right right university also does not insist that there must be a choice in the question paper it is the mindset of the paper setters actually yeah we can think it is also some reason that since many of the students joined to the engineering then at least the person who is above the average should pass and those who are excellent they will pass with good percentage like that keeping in mind that average students also should not fail I think this pattern is followed I feel I have a different feeling in a pedagogy I feel nobody should fail if anybody fails as a teacher I am personally responsible yes because if a student has not failed it could be for one of the two important reasons one the student has not studied and second I am not taught well and as a teacher I have to assume that all students are studying that therefore if they fail I am responsible so anyway but that's a pedagogy issue we will discuss that really thank you and I will show you the test papers which we give in our college and usually the test is for 25 marks of one hour duration max is okay this is a style we follow the department information and the test and the subject and usually we don't follow any of the guidelines like the question should be of this mass that mass because in this we are having intake of 60 students and there is five branches of double intake so nearly 500 students are entering into the engineering every year in our college so there are 10 staff members taking the subjects I mean teaching the theory and plus three more staff members handling the practicals so nearly I can say 30 to 40 student I mean faculty members are involved in teaching as well as in taking the practicals so we have a group CP faculties group and one or two people from computer one and from IT are made as the coordinators they discuss about the practical list and assignments test paper like that so this is a some exam question papers first test and this also mainly depends on how much portion we have covered that and we make it a point that this much of the portions has to be covered before the first test yes term test to two test one is the middle of the semester I can say after five to eight weeks five to six weeks the only thing is if you look at the marks allocated sir you have 25 marks two tests but you all convert that into 10 marks only yeah we take the average we club two but okay suppose I am a student sir then I will say that for all the kodakini that I do I will get only 10 marks whereas my theory paper marks are about 100 and five marks for attendance and 10 marks for documentation etc so all do you believe from your experience that students are really committed to do this the papers and they take it seriously yeah because during the exam is since so many colleges are involved in the university and we will not be knowing how the paper come and because nowhere it is described paper should come in this pattern so everybody is worried to get maximum marks in the term in general what is the past percentage of students in the university in this subject any idea you are in your own college in our own college it is more than scientific 85 yes and I repeat since he did not use the mic he's saying that there are 48 to 53 colleges in the university and as per his information the result typically is in the range of 40 to 50 percent for this subject okay we can say in this also because after the 12 the students are entering to the engineering stream in tables we can say everything is spoon fitted and they go to the classes and only the subjects whatever is given in that everything is available but as soon as they enter the engineering stream it is not like this the whole studying pattern changes and there are six subjects there to come regularly to the college in Bombay we can understand traveling only takes four hours and in other timings they attend all the lectures and in a day from 9 to 10 to 5 except one hour break lunch break they are totally busy and I think the people are finding seems difficult to cope up with the first year in the first semester not only for this subject I'm telling for all the subjects I think it is this is because I can understand being busy when we keep our students busy not only for eight hours but almost for 20 hours this is academic I'm just sorry but the major problem in the town is that the travel time is not just the time but the energy loss also and fatigue that sets him yes so when is a residential campus it is possible to work for many more hours without losing your energy okay and we have and do you also use the chalk and blackboard kind of thing yes we have lcd projectors one lcd projectors we have in the department if you feel I can take to the classroom and it is not installed in the classroom yeah but it is one project and if you have 600 students it is not that is the problem yes but we are having OHP projectors many people are using OHP's and we also use blackboard so those who use OHP sir how do they make slides do they write by hand yes we make a pen or whatever we use all the time sometimes when he sit and writing we write otherwise if I'm actually typing the program on the computer and I'm satisfied with that also I'll take the print out on the transparent how do you print so you're over at projectors huh but you need transparency you don't have a device like no no no means the transparency should be ready before we go to the class typically what is the cost of a transparency and transparency printing transparency 8 rupees outside 3 rupees per slide so you give the material people can give you printed slides for 3 rupees is it yes yes but I as I know it is 5 to 8 rupees some places okay and transparency and typically how many slides that teacher would be using in a lecture minimum 10 if it is only a problem explanatory 4 is also enough so 10 to 15 yeah 5 to 15 we can say depends on what if we take average 10 and you have 40 hours right yes 42 so what 400 to 500 slides so at 5 rupees you are talking about the expenditure of 2500 but there could be multiple classes going on simultaneously yeah yeah so you require multiple copies so what so what we are doing since many people's faculty members are involved in this so when we thought of making the transparencies we are given assignments like this I'll prepare this we'll prepare this you will prepare like that then we have shared those things and usually count the reason I'm asking this question I want your opinion on this is that while we prepare slides either in oddity or PDF or PPT format and include them it might be worthwhile to design slides for printing onto the plastic which people can print annual and this is the second test paper which covers the other part of the syllabus which recently sorry that semester as such is second part of the syllabus oh answer the following we are supposed to write descriptive answers what is data abstraction this is one line that depends on to understand their concept this is one question I have sir of course Bombay university this may not apply because students coming there uh should be reasonably good in their English expression but Bombay university will also affiliate their colleges in smaller towns now here's a question that I have explain the significance of constructors they expect me to write in English whatever two sentences or three sentences are you sure that all your students are capable of expressing themselves in English by constructing the answer or whether they would have read and mugged it up and they would reproduce it what is your experience my experience usually students write on their own in their own word okay because since 12th after 12th only they come means 11th and 12th they are studied in English medium only are you sure of that yes many people many people no I am talking about those few who have not studied in English till now I have not come across the concept meaning you are not worried so much about the syntax of English language yeah we are not the fundamental concept is understood yes you believe that person is understood oh I see but this is only for five months that's why some have to be done whereas in the programming problem they have to solve the problem it is very interesting because I find this more difficult than writing programs anyway the students are coming from 12th you know so they are very good in mugging of this thing that we know these they find these things very easy agree but the worry is that what we are trying to ensure is that the students understand and they are able to articulate themselves better yes so but since everything I mean the concepts of basic concepts of each you can see data abstraction constructs as the basic concepts we are asking so the students we as a 11th engineering students they should know these things I think they should know they will know it out yes but whether what they are telling you is what they know or what they are telling you is what they are mugging that's the question the one but I think that yeah answer is not how to understand their understanding or out of mugging and okay we don't know that yes we don't know but still when the staff members faculty checks the papers we'll understand whether the concept is clear or not it makes up both yes but I can see that you do have fairly number of good number of programming yes this is our institutional paper but the test paper during the lab or something or an assignment or report yeah but when a test is conducted you can't do it? But I am very happy that 10% people actually do the problems on their own. I thought the ratio was worse than right. Just added to this thing, what paper you have shown madam? Sir. Actually what happened since last two years, university has accepted some different practice. Previously every paper setter has to submit three papers and after that one has to be picked up from that and to be printed. Now what happened after that they have started a new practice like you know instead of picking up one complete paper they are taking two, three, two, three questions from different different papers. That might be the reason that question is you know interpreted. Okay. That is totally with the university. That is true. Not in the faculty side. Okay. And now. Just to, I mean because I do take these issues seriously. Sir. In the point in terms of examination, there are typically two completely independent teams. Okay. Which are setting of the paper but they completely take one paper. But each team ensures that there is no question repeated from following from the previous 40 years of exam. In general a paper setter would be aware of what questions were asked in the previous years or something. The problem is when you have to ask theory type of questions. Even a distinct theory type of questions can be asked every time. Problems you can give almost infinite numbers. So that is an issue. Yes sir. We follow in our college lesson plan contains analysis plan and one more lecture report format. This is the lesson plan. In the beginning of the semester since the subjects are allotted we do like this. To the, it comes with the subject and the division semester name of the faculties number of students and the which branch students will be teaching. And here since we know how many holidays may come, this is divided according to how many number of lectures I will be getting. So accordingly we will divide the portion into one hour, one hour lecture and according to that and here I will be giving whether I will be using a blackboard or the bohp like that and whether this portion is included in the lab assignments. That information and what are the books will be referring. And still I think in books referred some more improvement is will be trying to make what page numbers also from that text books we are referred that we are planning to insert. And even. No, it is important. When we build our own contents it does not matter what books are followed in IIT or at one particular place. But we should try and encompass all these things because immediately that is what will be the meaningful response subsequently let us say how we can evolve. And now this I am showing the list of experiments. Since we will be we are having 20 experiments compulsory questions we have to give experiments and we are made it a 6 units are there in the syllabus according to that questions are designed here questions 6 units are there. Then from each module we are given the questions and we are making the here we are made an attempt to give the simple simple programs for practice like one or two programs and other program the students should do. And here sometime we are given the choice also any from any of the four they can do from the other four they can do any of the two programs. In the lab sessions students actually write these programs. We expect actually this list is displayed before the students come to the lab. So, we expect them to come in some preparations like some logic or programming. Then what our friend observed becomes very pulting up. Yes sir. If you have read the list then I will go to Kalpana and say please show me a program and I will of course write it in. But even after that we are finding it difficult people are not coming with the programs even displaying this list they do not come with that much preparation I am feeling. This is my experience. Because they have to submit a printout generally in the summer college you can find out there is somebody before the book is a printout. But it is a printout the photocopy and the render printout is the same. Yes. So, there people is to do that. It is very interesting in 1965. Sir. This problem had arising in J. S. I. T. S. Indore. No. 1959. Before I went there in 1964. So, 58 of 59. After that what they started is the journals which are submitted. They used to punch a big hole through that journals. So, the same journals cannot be submitted. Yes sir. We do that. We do that now. Yes sir. That is very interesting. The practice is very good. And the answer to this even after displaying as I told the people will not come with the answers. So, they may not come prepared. Yes. But that means they will actually try on their own when they come to the lab. But that kills the time. With two hours within two hours they will not be able to do the four programs. So, here is a question if we can debate later. Sir. Instead of asking them to do four programs in a two hour lab. Would it not be better to ask them to do two programs in a better way? Yes. This is what we have done last year. And this is not to you of course. This is not to be prescribed by university. No, no, no. But we are following. This is we are done in the last year. But this time we made the other only we are expected. We are not asking them to do the practice program. We ask them to do at home or come. Then whatever the compulsory programs are they are supposed to do it. Other things like we have remote center and our college. Yes sir. Yes sir. Is this at center we have. I am from Somaya engineering. Yes sir. We are banking on that actually. I have no idea. But is it working all the way? Yeah, yeah. But I think last year we have started with and only our college people are getting the use of that. Now I think some more publication I mean published as required to take the people for that. In fact tomorrow when my colleagues Rahul and Samir Sahasrabudde and Arvind Patel discuss the technical issues please ask them third bear you know what problems you have, what problems they have or whatever because that whole thing has to work like a well oiled machinery. Otherwise the whole you know proposal will go ahead. And in we have one seminar hall which is in the same center where we have it is of 100 people capacity. 500 people. No, no 100. 100. And we have 3 servers of 4 GB each and in practical labs we have all duo core machines Pentium sorry duo core machines of 1 GB hard disk and 1 GB 512 MB also then 40 GB hard disk. The old machines. Yeah. And what software environment do you have on each? That actually depends on the what subjects we are taking in that lab. But typically for the programming. Yes we have windows, windows and turbosy. Windows and turbosy. Yes sir. Oh. And in the previous since the university syllabus changes after 5 years last year I mean previous syllabus we had Unix and C because of the open system. But in this semester I mean this syllabus we do not have Unix for the first year. Means they do not tell specifically anything about the operating system we are supposed to use. Maybe people are used to windows we are using. But I think we will make it. But we have no problem in using Linux. But I am not the one who is doing that. We will be doing that. So there will be 30 people involved in that. No, no, no. But you can always have a dual boot on it. Yeah yes we can have we can have. Yes. And you would have one Linux server at least in the whole environment. Yes yes yes. So we can use that Linux server as an NFS mount and we can have a dual boot so that people can do the common environment. Okay. What I was curious to know is that I was talking about just I was telling Vidya that if she could have she could create three remote centers effectively out of her university. One in which she herself teaches. So. And the other two in which two other people are there. So I was suggesting to her that she herself should also work as a coordinator for all the three and this year. Yes sir. Is it now possible because you mentioned you have a hundred percent seminar hall. Yes sir. Is it possible for you to sort of casual two of your colleagues okay to join you. Sir. And create three centers logically in the same physical center. Yes sir. And you can cater to 90 teachers. Sir. From the engineering colleges in the city. 90 teachers can attend the classes there. All that we will need is three labs for 30 teachers each. Yes sir. And each of the three coordinators handling the lab session. So that way we can have a multiplier effect. Yes sir. Because I was planning only on assuming that every college will have one teacher but I am seeing now that every college has 8 to 10 teachers teaching this course. So. That means the numbers are too huge actually. It is a one request from my side. Yes. When I gone through the first letter we are given to the coordinator. Yes. Since it was mentioned one coordinator from each college. Yes. So I came but when I see the registrations there are many people. Then when I came I was feeling that many people could have come and they are not able to get this information. Yes. So it will be coordinating since there will be so many colleges coming and many work is involved. It is not one-man show. So I request you so that you can tell our institution we can get more helping hands for that. Yes. This is a request from my side to you. What we will do is the same budgeting that we have. Sir. We will treat your colleges three centers. Yes sir. And instead of paying you 2 lakh rupees we will pay you 6 lakh rupees. Run the program for 90 or 100 teachers. Yes sir. Because you see with all said and whatever we do when the teachers come to your college or college or other college different teachers will acquire different benefits from the whole thing. Right. Depends on the individual incident like our students only. See teachers also means we were all students sometime. So when we attend this so we don't know to what extent people will benefit. So if we have more people and if we say the same percentage benefits maximum number of people benefiting will go. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much sir. Thank you.