 Now the reason we didn't move yesterday down the level is because of so-called health advice. Man in charge of that is Director-General of Health, of course, Ashley Bloomfield is back with us. Morning to you. Morning. How are you, Mike? Well, thank you. Let me quote you, Michael Barnett of the Auckland Chamber. He goes, businesses have got no certainty or ability to plan. We still don't know the criteria and the rules to give us back our lives and livelihoods. What is it they're waiting for? No cases for an unknown number of days. Acceleration of testing. What? What's the answer to that? Well, just on that, I think there was quite a bit of certainty given in the announcements yesterday. There's certainty for outside of Auckland about a move down to Alert Level 1 early next week, a revision in particular of the Auckland situation around the maximum gathering size and signalling that probably a short period of time after that that Auckland needs to remain in Alert Level 2. In addition, of course, yesterday, the announcement based on some advice that I'd given around the relaxing of physical distancing requirements on public transport and on flights, because people are now using masks, which is great. And so that's then opened up, of course, many more domestic flights and also means people can now get asked about on public transport more easily. Exactly. But a review isn't certainty? Well, except that the reviews are happening every week and at the end of that discussion and cabinet, then there's an announcement made about what the... I think that's the part they're trying to say, Ashley. And you guys don't understand it because you're not in the private sector. A weakened business is a lifetime. Oh, look, absolutely understand the impact on business and on the wider community. And in fact, I'm part of a leadership team across government that includes the Secretary of the Treasury. We meet every day and talk about the economic and other issues. And so those are clearly an important input into our advice and into the government's decision-making. That 25% you came up with for the spread from Auckland. How do you do that? Well, that's the modelling done by Professor Sean Hendy and his team in Auckland and, yes, at the Auckland University. And in fact, what it showed is there's a difference between the North and South Island. So there's still, at the end of last week, about a 30% to 40% possibility of a case having been ceded outside of Auckland in the North Island. And it's still a 10% to 20% possibility in the South Island. That will continue to drop as the days go by, as we test and find no cases. But that was the state at the end of last week. And I think... Yeah, but how's it modelled, bro? I mean, it sounds like an invented number to me. Oh, look, a lot of the modelling papers are publicly available. But no, they put in a range of assumptions around the travel patterns, the number of cases in Auckland, the likelihood of people being infectious, the likelihood someone has travelled outside of Auckland who was infectious. And then that there's further spread there. So, look, they've been using this over the last few months to help. It's just one of the inputs that's helping form the decisions. Can we... What was materially different yesterday, as opposed to the previous decision, which is basically for Auckland gone nowhere? We seem to have a small number of cases, a bit of a tale, some tracing going on, but nothing fundamentally has changed. Are you saying that as long as we have this sort of scenario, we're in level 2.5, and that's just the way it is? On the contrary, actually, as long as we have this sort of scenario with small numbers of cases that we find quickly and can find all the contacts, then we will be in a position for Auckland to move down alert levels in due course. But we're only two weeks into that 2.5, where people have been travelling around a lot, both within Auckland and outside of Auckland. And it's just too soon to be able to say confidently that there haven't been other cases seated more widely in Auckland or outside of Auckland. And that, by the extra time in 2.5, was our recommendation. But when you take your two plus weeks, plus another week and a half, you're literally writing off a month every time you've got a handful of cases? Well, that's what we've done in this situation. That's the advice we've given. And I think... Yeah, but that's my question. Is this the way it's going to be? So every time you get a handful of cases and a bit of a tail, that's a month gone? No, not necessarily. And in this case, of course, we've added a number of new things. First of all, our contact tracing has shown that it's rapid and effective. Secondly, we've got the compulsory use of masks on public transport and flights. And that's having an impact. That's another thing in the toolbox. But just remember last time when we came down the levels, we had a number of days with no cases anywhere in the country before we moved down into Alert Level 1. It was well over two weeks. And in this situation, we are still getting cases, but we are confidently moving back down the levels and opening things up. Have you given up on the index case of the original Auckland cluster? Not given up at all. We're still very keen to find out where that might have come from. I'm sure you're keen, but where are you looking? Well, yes. So what we're confident of is that it wasn't a simmering infection in the community. It was just too long for that to have happened. So it must have come through the border somewhere. So we can now officially say the border leaked? Well, it must have been imported. The question is whether it happened by some sort of casual contact at the airport or at a port, or whether it happened in a managed isolation facility. And ESR is continuing to go through all the samples of those previous cases in managed isolation during July to genome sequence them and see if we get a match. So it will be important to see if we can find that. And once we do, we'll make that information available, of course. What do you think Shaun Hendy would model the chances of you being able to find it at? Oh, I'm not sure I haven't asked him that. Would it be close to zero? Yeah, I'm meeting him in the next day or two, so I can ask him that specifically. Oh, look, we're hunting, you know, it's like a police investigation, that's Mike. And we're just gradually working our way through it because we do want to find out. What about David Seymour's claim that the jet part worker, you haven't had a single positive test until you started testing people and then what do you know, you've got a positive test? Yeah, look, I think one of the things to point out is that there's a higher likelihood we will get an infected worker in managed isolation and or quarantine now than there was earlier because there are simply more people coming in who are infected. And remembering in the jet park are all our cases from the community. They are also housed in the jet park. So there are a large number of people in there who are infected, whereas previously there might have only been one or two or three each week. So the likelihood of transmission has increased, but that's why we have added in the weekly testing and why we're doing audits of the infection prevention and control regularly. Always a pleasure, Ashley Bloomfield, the Director-General of Health.