 The defense in this case started with a long list of witnesses But you see it's easy for people who wanted to deprive gays and lesbians of their rights To make all kinds of statements and campaign literature or on TV where they can't be cross-examined But when they have to come into court and defend those opinions under oath Well initial depositions Their expert witnesses started having second thoughts that included dr. William Tam one of the very men who worked to put proposition eight on the ballot in the first place Yes Let me go down to point four where you say that countries that legalized same-sex marriage saw alarming moral decline You believe that after the Netherlands legalized same-sex marriage the Netherlands went on after that to legalize incest and polygamy and Who told you that sir? It's in the internet In the internet and you just put it out there to convince voters to vote for proposition eight Yeah After his deposition Dr. Cham chose to avoid the subpoenas compelling him to appear in court under oath In effect dr. Tam went on the lamb refusing to testify and When you say based on the scholars that have studied this that's because you're simply repeating the things that these scholars Say you're just a transmitter of the findings of these scholars. Is that correct now? You're putting words in my mouth. No, sir Yes, sir I was simply trying to report the view of some scholars that I was basing my arguments on I'm saying there are scholars respected scholars Who have made this argument based on ethnographic research and I've read them and that's the basis for my assertion Your honor, could I ask this witness be instructed to listen to the question answer my question and not make a statement That is not responsive to the question even if he believes it's important. I don't need such instruction That's what that my intention is to do exactly that Mr. Blankenhorn One of the instructions that the court gives to the jury when an expert witness testifies is to consider the witness's background training and all the other evidence in the case and That other evidence includes the demeanor of the witness So I would urge you to pay close attention to mr. Boyce's questions and answer them directly succinctly So bear that in mind Yes, sir. I will I'm really just addressing whether I was putting words in your mouth If you look at page 300 lines 7 through 12 You said that you were basing your analysis on the work of highly regarded Scholars and then you say okay. Oh, I got you a moment. I used the word I'm a transmitter of findings of eminent scholars. Gotcha. Oh, that's not a gotcha. Okay. I'm just trying to Okay, I Said transmitter seven months ago in a deficit and what you meant there was that you weren't making these conclusions on your own You were simply repeating what these scholars had to say is that correct if I may say so well my own words Let me look at your own words. Let's look at your own words page 300 I am simply repeating things that they say I can assure you these are not my own conclusions I am I'm I'm a transmitter here of findings of findings of these eminent scholars Did you give that testimony your deposition? That's what I said at the deposition Now you believe that gays and lesbians today are raising children, correct? Of course. Yes And in fact hundreds of thousands of children are being raised by gay and lesbian couples. Is that correct? I? Don't know how many you ever try to find out. I did And were you able to make an approximation? I Was yes, sir. I was And what was that approximation I Can't recall can you recall approximately? No, sir Okay, the studies show that all things being equal to adoptive parents raising a child from birth We'll do as well as two biological parents raising a child from birth, correct No, sir. That's in well, sir. Oh may I say another word on that? Have an opportunity to redirect, okay? It was a clarifying thing and to actually support something you just said the studies show that adoptive parents Because of the rigorous screening process that they undertake before becoming adoptive parents Actually on some outcomes Outstrip the biological parents in terms of providing protective care for their children Yes, I was gonna come to that I appreciate you for getting there now in Binder number one. We have a copy of your book future of marriage and the last two sentences After all part of the reason why the principle is so revolutionary is that it can grow and deepen over time groups that had long been considered effectively outside its moral reach African Americans women people of certain colors or languages or religions Can over time and often as a result of great struggle enter into its protective sphere And then you get to two sentences. I want to particularly direct your attention to you say I Believe that today the principle of equal human dignity must apply to gay and lesbian persons You see that Yes, yes, and the I There is you correct That's correct and you say that In that sense in so far as we are a nation founded on this principle, we would be more Emphasize more American on the day we permitted same-sex marriage than we were on the day before And you wrote those words did you not sir I? Wrote those words You believe them to be correct. Yes. Yes. I now believe them. That's correct Your honor, I have no more questions When they they come into court and they have to support and defend their opinions under oath And cross-examination those opinions just melt away There simply wasn't any evidence. There weren't any empirical studies It's made up junk science And it's easy to say that on television But the witness stand is a lonely place to lie And when you come into court you can't do that And that's what we did We put fear and prejudice on trial