 Hello and welcome to the National Television Network's live sitting of today's House of Assembly, live broadcast of today's House of Assembly sitting from the Government Information Service. I am Alicia Ali. Thank you so very much for joining us. Remember, you can catch us live on the Government of St Lucia's Facebook page as well as our YouTube page and on www.govt.lc. It is the 27th of June and we are here at the House of Parliament on Library Street in Mkhastri. We are awaiting the arrival of the speaker of the House of Assembly, Honourable Leon Theodore John. The order paper for today looks quite extensive with a few motions, actually four motions down for consideration. The first is that an amendment is being proposed to schedule three of the Value Added Tax Act which speaks to the import of goods and services by the St Lucia Association for Persons with Development Disabilities, Incorporated and Child Development and Guidance Centre. The second motion down for consideration is that Parliament authorizes the Minister for Finance to raise $103 million for financing the 2017-2018 budget and also that the Prime Minister and Minister for Finance raise the sum of $262 million for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. The Sergeant at Arms is carrying the mace and he is followed by speaker of the House of Assembly and the Deputy Clerk of Parliament. This signals the beginning of today's proceedings so let's head down to the chamber floor. Let us pray. Almighty God by whom alone Kings reign and princes decree justice and from whom alone cometh all counsel, wisdom and understanding. We thine unworthy servants here gather together in thy name. Do most humbly beseech thee to send down thy heavenly wisdom from above to direct and guide us in all our consultations and grant that we having thy fear always before our eyes and lay aside all private interests, prejudices and partial affection. The result of all our counsels may be to the glory of thy blessed name, the maintenance of true religion and justice, the safety, honor and happiness of the Queen, the public will, peace and tranquility of St. Lucia and the uniting and knitting together of the hearts of all persons and estates within the same. In the true Christian love and charity, one towards another through Jesus Christ, our Lord, amen. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost. Be with us forevermore. Amen. Announcements. I am in receipt of communication, a letter of apology from the Honorable Member for Babano informing that he is currently out of state and apologizes for his absence from this today's sitting. I wish to inform Honorable Members that I headed a delegate to Jamaica to participate in a conference, original conference regarding the eradication of AIDS in the Caribbean region and that was held on the 31st of May, 2007. I think actually our Honorable Minister of Health was present, was part of the delegation and there was quite a bit to be learned and gleaned in terms of dealing with AIDS, the pandemic and how we as a nation can move forward in that regard as well. Honorable Members, I wish to remind you that I would like to meet with members of this Honorable House immediately following today's proceedings for rather informal meeting of the members of the House. There are much needed things regarding the House members and procedures, safety, security to be discussed and I would like to meet with members in a private setting, not in a public forum such as this. Statements by Ministers. Papers to be lead. Honorable Prime Minister, Minister for Finance, Economic Growth, Job Creation, External Affairs, Public Service, Leader of Government Business. Madam Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers standing in my name. Statutory instrument number 47 of 2017 excised tax amendment of Schedule 1 order. Statutory instrument number 50 of 2017. Fiscal incentives. Tenderoni foods incorporated order. Statutory instrument number 52 of 2017. Legal profession. Eligibility. Shereen Stephanie Francis order. Statutory instrument number 53 of 2017. Legal profession. Eligibility. Villette Gisella Benjamin order. Statutory instrument number 55 of 2017. Plan of arrangement by Co-act commencement order. Report of the Director of Audit for the Fiscal Year 2015-2016. Honorable Minister for Infrastructure, Port, Energy and Labor. Madam Speaker, I beg to move the following papers standing in my name. St. Lucia Air and Seaport Authority annual report 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. Honorable Minister in the office of the Prime Minister with responsibility for tourism, information broadcasting. Madam Speaker, I wish to lay the following papers standing in my name. Statutory instrument number 51 of 2017. Tourist duty free shopping system Royalton St. Lucia limited order. Honorable Minister in the office of the Prime Minister with responsibility for commerce, industry, enterprise development and consumer affairs. Madam Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers standing in my name. Statutory instrument number 36A of 2017. Price control amendment number 6 order. Statutory instrument number 48 of 2017. Price control amendment number 7 order. Statutory instrument number 49 of 2017. Price control and amendment number 8 order. Statutory instrument number 54 of 2017. Price control amendment number 9 order. Motions. Honorable Prime Minister, Minister for Finance, Economic Growth, Job Creation, External Affairs, the Public Service, Leader of Government Business. Madam Speaker, I beg to lay the following motions standing in my name. Resolve, whereas under section 1091A of the Value Added Tax Act, cap 15.42, the act it is provided that the Minister responsible for finance may by order published in the Gazette amend the schedules to the act and whereas it is further provided under section 1092 of the act that an order made pursuant to section 1091 of the act is subject to an affirmative resolution of Parliament except where the amendment is to the customs tariff headings only and whereas the Minister responsible for finance seeks to approval of the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order to amend schedule 3 of the act by affirmative resolution of Parliament. Be it resolved that the Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order which amends schedule 3 of the act. Honorable Members, the question is that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order which amends schedule 3 of the act. Honorable Prime Minister. Madam Speaker, this is a very simple motion. What we're looking to do as required by the regulations is to provide a waiver of the value added tax for two agencies and that is the Parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to make a value added tax amendment order to exempt the import of goods and services by the St. Lucia Association for Persons with Development Disabilities Incorporated and the Child Development and Guidance Centre Incorporated. I think it's a very simple amendment and I'm hoping it meets with the approval of Parliament. Honorable Members, the question is that Parliament by affirmative resolution approves the draft value added tax amendment of schedule 3 order which amends schedule 3 of the act. I now put the question. As many as of that opinion say I, as many as are of a contrary opinion say no. I think the I's have it, the I's have it. Honorable Prime Minister, Leader of Government Business. Madam Speaker, I beg to lay the following motion standing in my name. Whereas it is provided by section 3 of the National Savings and Development Bonds Act, CAP 15.25, that under the authority of Parliament, the Minister responsible for finance may raise by the issue of savings bonds inside and outside St. Lucia, money up to the amount of $1.8 billion for financing such capital or other expenditure and for such debt refinancing as he or she may determine. And whereas it is further provided by section 4 of the National Savings and Development Bonds Act, CAP 15.25, that the bonds shall be issued in such form and on such terms and conditions as the Minister responsible for finance may direct. And whereas the Minister responsible for finance deems it necessary to raise a sum of EC $103 million for financing the 2017-2018 budget. A sum of $262 million for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. Be it resolved that the Parliament authorizes the Minister of Finance to raise the sum of EC $103 million for financing the 2017-2018 budget. A sum of $262 million for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market through the private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. Honorable members, the question is that Parliament authorizes the Minister for Finance to raise A, the sum of $103 million for financing the 2017-2018 budget. B, a sum of EC $262 million for refinancing the existing debts of the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. Honorable Prime Minister, leader of government business. Madam Speaker, this is a part of the budgetary process as indicated that we have an approval of $1.8 billion in terms of financing available to the government for capital and for refinancing. At this point, we're simply requesting that we allow to borrow the $103 million in order to be able to finance the budget as indicated in the budget we just recently passed through the appropriations bill and that a further sum of $262 million, Madam Speaker, in order to be able to refinance existing loans that we have. So in terms of turning over those loans, I hope that this meets with the approval of Parliament. Honorable leader of the opposition and member for castries. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, it's unfortunate that we have more than 60 days after the passing of the budget to deal with something that we could have done 60 days ago. But due to the adjournment of the House for 40 days and 40 nights, we found ourselves in a position where we have to deal with something we could have dealt with a long time ago. But Madam Speaker, I have a fundamental problem with the motion as read by the Honorable Minister for Finance. And my point of departure is the budget summary that gave life to the budget address read by the Honorable Minister for Finance. In the budget summary, Madam Speaker, and you will note that the budget is a deficit budget, a deficit of over $220 million. It's the largest deficit budget we've had for quite a while, over 4%. And it's also it also showed increase in all the deficits, primary deficit, all the deficits increase, Madam Speaker. So that we have overall deficit of $220 million, even with an increase in the fuel tax of 60% from $250 to $4 causing the price of fuel to increase by 60% per gallon because of the taxes. An increase in the airport tax of 152% again causing the cost of travel to increase. We still had a deficit budget of $220 million. And we haven't even included financing for the airport, which is supposed to be $150 million because the government has abandoned the PPP option. So this is the scenario in which I will discuss the motion as outlined by the Prime Minister. The financing for the budget proposals, Madam Speaker, is actually $345 million, $431,231,227. That is the financing for the budget. As compared to the last financial year, where the financing was $185 million. So the government has increased the loans by over $200 million this year. And that still will still be for deficit budget of $220 million. But Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance is asking the Parliament to approve $103 million for financing of this budget. Now, if he is asking for $103 million, where will he get the money to continue to finance the other projects of the government? Because the money is asking to borrow doesn't even cover the overall deficit that he has. $220 million deficit, but it's asking to borrow $103 million. So, Madam Speaker, you find that there must be something. The Minister of Finance must return to his honorable house to borrow more money because it's just simple common sense. If he needs $245 million to finance this budget. And, Madam Speaker, I want to do a simple bit of arithmetic. Very simple. If you look at the total expenses of the budget for this year, and we can again, my point of departure is the budget summary. You will see that the total expenditure for this year is $1.5 billion. I just want to round it up. And the total income is $1.1 billion. So there is a deficit, a total deficit of $255 million. And that is exactly the financing that he's asking for in the budget summary. The $355 million he's asking for $345 million. If you look at last year, you will see that the total expenses were $1.3 million. Total income, $1.1 billion. The total deficit, $185 million. And the financing was $195 million, which is basically the same as last year. But this year, he's asking for only for $103 million. Where will he raise the remainder of the money? He has to return to his honorable house to borrow more money. And it gets even more serious, man speaker, because the second part of the motion he says is to refinance existing debt. I'd like the honorable minister of finance to give me a list of the existing debt that he's refinancing. Because again, man speaker, if you look at the social and economic review, you will see that the last time they refinanced debt or they roll over debt, the debt was and page 54 of the social and economic review, you will see they rolled over $705 million worth of debt. This year, he's saying to us that he only wants $262 million to roll over debt. Now, man speaker, let me tell you what the roll over debt means. It means that supposing it's very simple. You have some money in the bank and the bank gives you interest. So you say to the bank, pay me the interest and you hold my money. That's simple. Simply what a roll over of that means. He had to roll over, according to the documents in the major finance, $705 million worth of debt for the year 2015-2016. But this year, he's saying that he only wants $252 million or $262 million to roll over debt. There is something wrong, man speaker. There must be something wrong. And the minister of finance, if he's so minded, he may not be, will have to explain in simple, in simple economic terms, in simple numbers why with a deficit of $220 million and needing $345 million to balance his budget, he's coming to the parliament only to borrow $103 million. There must be something wrong, man speaker. So the Prime Minister will have to tell us, if he's so minded, what debt is he refinancing that are worth $262 million, whereas the SEC says it's over $700 million worth of debt which he has to refinance. But man speaker, it gets even more interesting because in this budget, the honorable Prime Minister said to us that that is a growth budget, that will create employment, that will create jobs. And part of the examples he used is Ojo Labs. So man speaker, I was wondering, and by the Prime Minister's own explanation, he was in a plane going to speak to American Airlines. I know that, I've done that trip of him in another world. We have to go and speak to American Airlines, a fellow called Mr. Dilara. But Dilara isn't there again. So I know about a trip. So he went to speak to Mr. the American Airlines. And while he was there, he flew to Austin, Texas. When he went to Austin, Texas, he met a guy, the guy said, you come on, come on, let's chat. He says right away, I agree. I'm gonna give you $4 million and I'm going to refit the factory for you. I'm gonna pay your staff for you. But man speaker, there was no review, you know. When it's the nice workers, they have a review. When it's the Lucians, nice workers, there's a review. There's a minister of investment. There's a minister, there's an investor in Lucia, no discussion. The Prime Minister, running the government like a business, decides that he's going to take $4 million and refit a factory for a gentleman. But I looked further and I wondered why was the Prime Minister doing that? Because the Prime Minister must have a motive. And he spoke about artificial intelligence. And I want you to research artificial intelligence, my new speaker. And research, research artificial intelligence and see what that's, what is that all about? Artificial intelligence is a new, a new, a new phenomena that deals with several things, including the mind, including mind bending, data analytics. And that has been used in the politics in the region. That has been used in the politics in the region. So when the Prime Minister, and man speaker, when you, when you say these things and always tell him, all you all can go and Google, go Google artificial intelligence, Google it, Google and see what's all about. It's not me saying that, you know. It deals with several things. It's a new phenomena. They have benefits and they are downsides. But part of it, I repeat, is data analytics that has been used in political campaigning in the region. So I'm saying to myself, the Prime Minister was so enthusiastic in speaking to Ojo Labs. He was so enthusiastic, so enthusiastic that he, by his own admission, agreed that he would give the man a thousand dollars per employee. Nobody knows how many employees, no review, like the nice workers, or St. Jude's Hospital, no analysis from the Ministry of Investment. But the cabinet agrees, man or speaker, there must be something more than employment. How many people are going to be employed? How many people are going to be employed at Ojo Labs? And why must a factory, why must we use five million dollars of the money that we are going to borrow to finance Ojo Labs? The answer, and you might call me cynical, but my experience with this government causes me to be cynical. There must be, there must be something because artificial intelligence deals with mind bending. Look for the campaign. Because no one knows what's happening there. And I want you to research it and you will find out what's happening there, man or speaker. And again, the Prime Minister was in a party with his bowtie and he said, oh, I met some lady and I told her to go and open some school for me. And I'm happy that she opened it. In effect, they say not in effect. And you don't know what that meant, Mr. Speaker, man or speaker, that meant another five million dollars for hospitality training, in effect. But man or speaker, if you say anything, they tell you, you don't know that. And that is who, and they tell you, you, you are power, you want to be in power. But these are facts, man or speaker. Ten million dollars in the money that we are going to borrow, one of them in a plane from Texas, the other one in effect. That is the analysis, man or speaker, that we put into government's decision in seducia. But man or speaker, photo, photo, even man or speaker, and I'm going to put it to you that the increase in fuel taxes by 60% is one of the highest tax increases ever in the history of St. Lucia's political and economic development. One dollar and the increase from two fifth to the four dollars is one of the highest increases. And we will see, man or speaker, because you know, when you say these things, they always believe that you impute it in proper motives. And they go all over them, all over the place, instead of coming back to the reality and to the facts. Even to tell you that solutions won't worry about that because they have to buy $20 gas. So they care about that. So even the price goes up by 150, they care because they buy $20 gas. These are the excuses we make, man or speaker. But man or speaker, because of the excesses of this government, I am putting it to you that we have to return to his honorable house to borrow money to finance the 2017- 2018 budget. Because this motion, as it stands, is not enough. It cannot finance it. And the prime minister should come and say to the house that the amount which is asking which the motion speaks to, which is 103 and 262, which is $365 million, is to finance this budget and not to refinance any existing debt. It is to refinance this budget because it cannot. And I defy him to give me a list of the debts that he is refinancing for 2015. If you look at the social and economic review, and you look at the debts that are maturing in 2017, you will see it comes a lot less, a lot more than $252 million. And if you look at page 54 of the review of the economy, and I quote, during the review period, $465.7 million in treasury bills, and $239 million of bullet bonds matured and were rolled over. Therefore, the principal repayments made towards amortized bonds and loans increased to $46.4 million in 2016. So this motion, my speaker, to my mind, is fundamentally flawed or it doesn't serve to tell the entire story of the state of the economy based on the budget summary and based on the budget statement which was delivered by the prime minister. It's common sense. A 220 million deficit budget cannot be financed only by $103 million of loans. Impossible. So the prime minister must tell us where he's getting the money from and how he intends to finance his budget, to finance his ojo labs, et cetera, where he's getting the money from to finance it because this motion cannot finance a budget as stated by the honorable prime minister. I thank you, my speaker. Honorable member for Viewfort South. My speaker, I understand that we are looking at the resolution which in essence requests parliament to approve a sum of $103 million for financing the 2017-2018 budget and a sum of $262 million for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. At the outset, Madam Speaker, I want to admit of course that I understand full well the desire of any minister of finance having just passed a budget to try and get approval for all borrowings upfront either during or immediately after so that you don't have a recurring decimal of constant resolutions before the House in the course of the year requesting approval for borrowing. I mean certainly this is a procedure that has been employed in the past before and one understands perfectly why this would be the case even on this occasion. However, Madam Speaker, I am very mystified by the resolution that is before the House this morning. It is an unusually crafted resolution and to be frank, Madam Speaker, I am not even sure in my mind that the correct procedures have been employed in presenting this resolution to the Honorable House. You see, Madam Speaker, we seem to be dealing with borrowing from two different sources and it would be necessary for the Minister of Finance to clarify exactly how he is proceeding because of the sums of money that are involved here. On the one hand, the Minister of Finance cites the National Savings and Development Bonds Act and indicates that there will be some borrowing but we are not told precisely what is the amount that will be protected, be allowed under the National Savings and Development Bonds Act. Then in paragraph B it says a sum of EC 262 million for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5%. There are two kinds of instruments that may be placed before the RGSM. The first is the usual Treasury bills and then of course you can seek to finance bonds placed on the RGSM. Here again, we are not being told what amount of money is going to be raised by way of Treasury bills, what amount of money is going to be raised by way of bonds. This becomes crucial because then we are dealing with the issue of interest rates. If you are raising money by way of Treasury bills, then very clearly there's a certain interest rate that will apply to Treasury bills. If you are going to raise money by way of bonds, then if you are going to go by way of bonds of a certain duration, whether it is short term or long term bonds, there's going to be a certain interest rate that is applicable. But the mystery continues because Madam Speaker, if the intention is that all this money is going to be raised under the National Savings and Development Bonds Act, because it is cited, I note in paragraphs one and two, when the Minister of Finance must, for force, clarify what amount of money is really being raised under the national Savings and Development Bonds Act because there's a ceiling. You could only borrow up to $1.8 billion. Therefore the question is, what is the current ceiling? How much we have outstanding in bonds? And secondly, if both amounts are to be protected under the National Savings Development Bonds Act, then would the existing ceiling be able to accommodate both instruments? So there must be frank and full disclosure of precisely what room you have to maneuver under the National Savings and Development Bonds Act. One would have thought that precisely because two different kinds of legislation authorizes two different kinds of interventions that the Minister of Finance would have made it absolutely clear in a resolution before the House, what amount is coming from National Savings Development Bonds, what amount is coming under Treasury bills. There is a further implication, and I'm not so sure, and I will not offer any opinion on this question now for a variety of reasons, whether even if you borrow under the National Savings Development Bonds Act and you enter into agreement with specific banks or institutions or individuals as to how much you're borrowing, whether you don't have to come back to the House in respect of those specific instruments because you'd be borrowing at specific rates of interest, or unless of course you have a generous investor who says, well I'm going to take all your debt, buy all your debt, and the rate of interest is 7.5%. So I would hope that we get some clarification of this because this instrument is ill-advised as it is drafted. I will say no more on this, I mean at this stage because as I said we are dealing with two very different species, but what is causing me some concern is a lack of clarity in respect of interest rates. Madam Speaker, this resolution clearly suggests that St. Lucia has to make its instruments available in the marketplace, but there are some very interesting things that are happening on the RGSM. St. Lucia is in a peculiar position because a lot of his debt is actually debt on the RGSM, contrary to what most people think, and precisely because you're dealing with a lot of that debt on the RGSM it is always more difficult to engage in any kind of renegotiation regarding that specific debt. But the trends that we are seeing today are not trends that happened today alone, but they are some ominous signals because having managed an economy in the last few years and having experienced the pressures that were exerted on St. Lucia in the last few years, it is even more critical and crucial that we understand the vulnerabilities we are dealing with at this time. The fact of the matter is that St. Lucia is attracting the highest rates of interest for its instruments on the RGSM. Now there is both a positive and a negative side to this. At first glance, an investor including an ordinary St. Lucia would want to buy the instruments of the government of St. Lucia, your treasury bills, because it is offering an interest rate of six percent. After all, banks are not offering that kind of interest rates, so you might as well invest in government securities. That's a short-term benefit. The long-term issue and the underlying structural issue is that your instruments are attracting higher rates of interest because your economy is under stress. And let us look at some of these placements to grasp the significance of this. The government of St. Lucia Treasury Bill issued on the 28th of June, 25 million. The rate of interest suggested to the market maximum 60 percent for 180 days. The government of Antigua issues treasury bills for maximum 15 million. The rate of interest proposed by Antigua for treasury bills of 365 days, 5.5 percent. I'm bearing in mind that this is an economy that came out of a partial form of structural adjustment and it seems well on its way to be facing further stresses. The government of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, they went to the market for 28 million dollars, interest rate 4.82 percent, 91 days treasury bills. The government of the Commonwealth of Dominica there too went to the market 20 million and the interest rate 6 percent. The government of Grenada now on a structural adjustment program and they have had more room to maneuver to deal their debt for the simple reason most of their debt was external or externally incurred. They are going to the market for 10 million only at an interest rate of 4 percent. So what do we see here? We are seeing a pattern that the economies that are under stress are selling their instruments at the highest rates of interest on our RGSM. That's a warning signal. That is a warning signal and the question which the Minister of Finance has to answer, what advice do you give investors in that kind of environment? What do you tell your investors? What explanations are you going to tell them? Well you know we are offering higher rates of interest because we can afford it. Is that the advice? On the other hand some investors more discerning say look 6 percent I better be careful down the road. That's the issue. It now becomes an issue of confidence in respect of the financial system. Madam Speaker, there was I thought a statement by the Minister of Finance in his budget presentation that on the face of it looked rather innocuous. I thought it was a very unusual statement for the Minister of Finance to make and it's at page 38 of his budget speech now part of the record of this house. He says quote, Madam Speaker, to solve the debt problem we will have to do our fair share as a government and as a people. We cannot do it alone. To restore the public finances we must recognize that our fiscal stability is a shared interest for all stakeholders in our economy. We will have to act in partnership with the private sector and with our bilateral and multilateral stakeholders the burden of adjustment will have to be shared by all. Over the next few months we plan to announce several initiatives which we believe are necessary to place our debt on a sustainable path. This is a very interesting and surprising statement. As I said, unless you read the budget very carefully you may not have picked up the implications or the nuances of that statement. The question is why would the Minister of Finance make a statement like this when he knows he has to go to the marketplace? What is the hidden message contained in that statement? What are you telling investors who wish to purchase government instruments? Government bonds? Government securities? What are you telling them? Are you telling them that down the road they may face the possibility of a haircut or are you telling them down the road that they may have to face the possibility of renegotiation of their government instruments? What are you telling them? And why would you want to say that at this time? What are you to tell someone who comes to you for advice and say I have a million dollars, I want to buy government treasury bills, or I want to buy bonds, should I go ahead? What do you tell them? You can tell them these are the market conditions, these are the interest rates that are available, these are the interest rates that are applicable, but you should be careful and be aware of the statement made by the Minister of Finance that sometime in this budget recycle there will be negotiations in respect of outstanding debt to the government's illusion. That is what the advisor may have to offer by way of advice. The fact that the matter is, Madam Speaker, as I have indicated, on the one hand it may appear attractive to buy instruments at a rate of six percent because it is the highest rate being offered, certainly far higher than our counterparts in the rest of the region, but it begs the question why is it that St. Lucia's instruments are attracting such high rates of interest? Why? Clearly, this is a portfolio that will have to be handled with extraordinary care and sensitivity as we proceed in this coming budget recycle, and very clearly what we choose to say is going to be vital as we manage that portfolio in the weeks and months ahead. In summary therefore, Madam Speaker, I seek answers to the following questions. Whether legally you can proceed to borrow sums of money from two government acts in one resolution without reference to specific acts and the amount of money being raised under each act, whether you can do this. Secondly, whether you can proceed to ask Parliament for its blessing in an open-ended manner, notwithstanding the fact that certainly in respect of the National Saving Development Bonds Act you have greater room to maneuver. There's no question because there's a two-stage process. The first is that the National Development Savings Bond Act must establish a ceiling for you to borrow, and once you indicate you're issuing bonds under that then the second stage applies. The borrowing and the rates of interest have to be clarified especially if you are engaged in borrowing for long-term instruments. That is the second issue that has to be clarified. And the third issue, why is it that St. Lucia is attracting at this stage such a high rate of interest, and for how long are we to expect those rates of interest will continue to apply? Madam Speaker, I thank you and see no more. Honorable Minister for Economic Development, Housing, Urban Renewal, Transport and Civil Aviation. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I will speak in support of this resolution made by the Minister of Finance. Madam Speaker, in this honorable house, sometimes you listen to members' contributions and you would think that's the first time they come to the honorable house to make a presentation. Madam Speaker, I heard there must be more team as indicated by the member for Cassie East for the borrowing and the setting up of Ojo Labs. I heard the member for Viewford South speaking about clarity, speaking about the need to declare everything so that we can understand. Madam Speaker, these two members who have spoken are among the longest serving members in this honorable house. You couldn't burn me. If I had to be the longest serving member that was my performance, I'd rather be out from today. So at the end of the day, it is not how much time you spend, it is what you do with the time that you spend in this honorable house. And so, Madam Speaker, I will take us back to remind some people in this honorable house of their own tenure in office because apparently some of them have forgotten what they did in their time. And so, Madam Speaker, we look at the resolution and we hear about seven percent interest and we think that seven percent interest is out of this world. But, Madam Speaker, when we lost the 2011 elections and the Labour Party came into office, one of my challenges to them was to maintain the credit rating that St Lucia had. And that was one of the first things we lost under them, our credit rating. Because the cost of borrowing is driven up by the level of rating that your country has. But, Madam Speaker, I will take them back to a resolution and I'm quoting from a document that is already a document of the house. Madam Speaker, the report of the Commission of Enquiry on Roschamel. And let me read a resolution, Madam Speaker. Whereas it is provided by section 39 of the Finance Administration Act 1997, number three, that the Minister of Finance may by resolution of parliament borrow from any bank or other financial institution for capital or a current expenditure of government. And whereas it is further provided by section 42 of the SED Act, that there shall be a charge upon and paid out of the consolidated fund debt charges for which the government is liable. And whereas the Minister for Finance considers it necessary to enter into a fully underwritten fixed rate bond facility of 41 million U.S. or it's equivalent in eastern Caribbean dollars at an issue price of 100% per value with the Arbitrity Merchant Bank, the purpose of the financing is for government capital program and refinancing of government's obligations to the former Hyatt Hotel. And it goes on to say, and whereas the interest on this facility is fixed at 7.75%. I'll stop there, that's not all of the resolution. But I want to make a point here, Madam Speaker. What was the clarity? The member for View for South is coming to the Honorable House and saying, oh, and that's what he does all the time, Madam Speaker. Try to cause people to second guess what they are doing in this house because he comes and he presents himself, oh, I have that concern. But I'm not very clear. If you're not clear, don't say anything. When you're clear, speak. When you're not clear, don't come and give us instructions on what to do because, Madam Speaker, that is the game that is being played. So I'm not clear if the resolution can do both. So trying to raise doubt. You are clear on what you are doing with Rochamel. But the house was not clear. The house was not clear because all you gave in your explanation was to finance obligations to Hyatt and when the den members of the opposition try to ask questions, there were no answers given. I can give other examples, Madam Speaker. I had a big debate about people didn't get a chance to speak in the last budget. Madam Speaker, I realize they're trying to capitalize on the opportunity to speak. But the opportunity is gone already. You can talk. The budget is passed already. At the end of the day, Madam Speaker, they were given 40 days. Apparently they did 40 years to prepare to respond to what is there. But, Madam Speaker, when we look at what has happened and how I heard them talk about they were building this economy, you are managing. He said he was managing the economy. Madam Speaker, they were destroying the economy. They were not managing the economy. There's nothing in their performance that shows me that there was management and I will substantiate my point by the things that I will highlight. But, Madam Speaker, when they want to tell us about, oh, I will not take advice over there, Madam Speaker. Because they could not advise themselves what to do when they were in government. But all of a sudden they have all the answers to everything. They know how to borrow. But they didn't know how to borrow when they were in government. Or else they knew and they pretended that they didn't know. So, Madam Speaker, talking about procedures, what happened in the last budget debate of the St. Lucia Labour Party as the government of St. Lucia? We heard and we couldn't debate about some members on this. I didn't get to speak and they were concerned about that. Ask them, Madam Speaker, how did they pass the appropriation bill in the last budget? And I wanted to go on the record in this country that when they talk about procedures, they came in. Madam Speaker, they said two debates. There used to be one debate. Okay, we went with two debates. For that matter, it was even question. What do you have to say now that the document was given? Madam Speaker, you know what happened the last budget debate of the Labour Party in the House? There was no policy statement. There was no speech by the Prime Minister. But you know what he did? He passed the appropriation bill overnight. And I want you to tell me that's not true. I want you to tell me the procedures you want to tell us to follow. Why you did not follow the procedures when you were the Minister of Finance? That is, you see, that is how things must be measured, Madam Speaker. We cannot use one measurement when this government is in office and another measurement when the other government is there. Madam Speaker, not until the postponement of the last debate did I realize that the appropriation bill in the last budget just before the elections of the Labour Party did not go through the procedure, the established procedure that they are talking about. Convention. It did not go through that. It did not come and read a speech of his policy statements and give us an opportunity to debate today the leader of the opposition, the so-called leader of the opposition. Because he's not the leader of the opposition. He's just as the name. Madam Speaker, when they want to come and tell us what to do and how to do it, I've always said if you are not going to lead by example do not instruct others on what to do. So we're talking about procedures. So they did not follow that procedure. The details of the borrowing on the Rochamel was never given and has never been given. The former minister of finance, commission of inquiry, he didn't speak. A lawyer spoke on his behalf. Every opportunity he has had in this house to clarify what was the deal with Rochamel, he has never done it. All they speak about is the hotel is there and there are people working. All of us know that the hotel is there and all of us know that people are working. But the 41 million U.S. that was borrowed and part of the payment was in obligations to Rochamel has never been clarified to the people of this country. But you see Madam Speaker, they will come and they will present themselves that they have all of the answers. Madam Speaker, what caused us to be in that situation that we are in today? And I heard him talk about the short-term instruments. Madam Speaker, when the Labour Party came into office our rollover debt was every 10 years. Every 10 years you'd have a full rollover. Now it is down to four and a half years Madam Speaker, four and a half years under debt management. And Madam Speaker, I came here and I've spoken about that and Hansard will show that in one of the debates I highlighted moving from the bonds to the short-term treasury bills and the turnover every 90 days in some instance and six months how much it accumulated the interest rate under whose watch that happened that didn't happen under our watch that happened under their watch Madam Speaker but today they will come and tell you about how Antigua is doing and how St. Vincent is doing under the United Workers Party government this was the leading country within the OECS in all areas of performance and even when Antigua was a larger economy under the United Workers Party we overtook the size of the economy in Antigua under United Workers Party government ask them what they have to show Madam Speaker ask them what they have to show other than raising the debt level of this country and if you measure the level of debt as opposed to the growth in the economy because Madam Speaker what some people don't understand is that borrowing is not the problem it is what you do with the money that you borrow because if there is proper return on investment paying back your loan is not a problem but you see we had all the borrowing and it's in the city b report you know and the world bank report highlights that while we had one of the highest rates of tax we had the lowest returns from government because bad managers that's what bad managers do it's not how much money you give them to run the business it is how efficiently and effectively they are able to run the business and that is their failure that's why they're on that side of the house Madam Speaker and they have not understood that they're on that side of the house you know they still think that they are over here they still want to tell us what to do now i will tell you let this government roll out its budget and judges at the end of this year i have the member for castries is talking about they must come back to the house and as if when as if when they were there now it's unfortunate that the former member of view for south is not in this house because he could have given you every line how many times you came to the honorable house to borrow during your time so there are times that you would come to borrow of course we have to come back to the house and borrow that is how government is run there is always a need but it is how you manage what you are borrowing and that is what you all could not do and you have to understand that you have to understand your own failures and do not try to impose your failed policies on people who know how to manage every day Madam Speaker every day we want to run the government like a business that's what we hear you know the difference what it is that a business and business entities the most successful business entities in the world are among those who have the strongest social conscience that they are able to strike a balance between running their business effectively and caring for the community in which they exist and government operates that way government must run effectively or else it will go bankrupt and that is where you are leading this country to a state of bankruptcy not only bankruptcy of ideas but bankruptcy in financing and so Madam Speaker when we come to this honorable house and I heard the member talk about Ojo Labs and that we are giving a developer we are giving an investor thousand dollars I want to set the record straight the thousand dollars is not for the investor it is for the workers who are going to be sent Lucian that is what it is for and if you understood if you understood your nice program yes just like you paid for true value and the others that that is that is what it is about that is what it is about order please you need to understand oh it's 10 schools you are ready you'll have about more and it is educated in St. Lucian that is what the difference is it's not educated in people overseas it's to educate St. Lucian you can find out who owns it you don't have to take it from me and so Madam Speaker when we talk about what was happening what did they promise us under the nice program they promised us kind of an apprenticeship program a training program to help people to get job experience so that they could get a job Madam Speaker part of the same formula that they had but you see they know how to talk but they don't know how to work they talk about the things but they could not implement it now a real government is in charge of the affairs of the country and we are implementing the things that you could not implement because we said that some of the components of the nice program was good we said it on the platform and we said what was good we are going to uphold it because we are not a government as they try to claim of victimization everything that had flamboyant they try to get rid of it when they were in government once it had a semblance of united workers party but when something is good it is good it is good for the people of this country so if they want to challenge you want to challenge Ojo labs you talk about artificial intelligence you need you you want to talk about artificial intelligence i would rather have i would rather have the artificial intelligence paid to send lutions than to pay Bob or Robert but i will come to that in time just keep these names in time in in in mind Bob or Robert keep these names in mind and i will come to them in time and you will understand how much money you all paid we will find out how much money you all paid and how much money we are paid but you see you paid your monies to an american we are paying the monies to the locals and and if you if you want to challenge me every one of you sitting on this side with the exception of the member for castry south you all were in the cabinet so you all know what i'm talking about but i will come in time i will come in time to deal with it so madam speaker you see that is the bluff that we get from this side of the house madam speaker they do things that they think we don't know because we have chosen not to speak yet so madam speaker they talk about they talk about what we are doing with with ojo labs i will tell them how much money they paid in time to get what i was giving them for free i gave them all the advice for free i gave them all the information for free they didn't want it they had to go and pay millions to get it but i'm coming to this i'm coming to this in good time so madam speaker when they talk about when they talk about saint lucian's getting work and and that is what i don't understand about the labor party madam speaker here is a government who have introduced a program in this country that is going to employ hundreds of young saint lucians now look at where the concern is and it tells you as a man think if in his heart so easy that's what the good book says so here the thinking of the leader of the opposition around elections you will hear about artificial intelligence but when i bring my phone records to this house we will know where it came from and why we need artificial intelligence i will bring it in time madam speaker i will make it a document of the house so that it will go down in history it will go down in the oh you know they have a draft document of a report okay we coming you coming good continue yes you remember now and so madam speaker when they talk about there must be motive there must be motive so you think to create jobs for the people the young people of saint lucia where we have almost 45 percent unemployment there's motive well that is the best motive that the government can have to create jobs for the young people of this country and here he's concerned madam speaker oh it's mine it's the mind they're trying to get into huh it's the mind they try to get into artificial intelligence but if you have your things in your mind you don't have nothing to worry about out of the abundance you know what you know what the good book says out of the abundance of the half the mouse picker so even they have good things you don't have to worry about what's coming out why are you worried about what's coming out on artificial intelligence you afraid of being found out madam speaker madam speaker madam speaker in this discussion that we are having here today you know when people want to impact improper motive to things that are good for saint lucia that is what happens they get thrown off track so let me ask them since they know about motive i want them to give me an explanation of the motive behind certain arrangements that they went to as a cabinet and i'm sure they can help me madam speaker they went into an arrangement with a company called bo you know you talk about madam speaker they went into that arrangement there was a housing project going on in river dory and you and let me preface what i'm saying so that you understand the relation to this bill they are highlighting what we are doing with the money well how we're going to spend it let me tell you how they spend some of the money that put us in the problems that we have to do so there was that development started in river dory 58 acres of land for redevelopment project ongoing contractor engaged roads got pipes being run everything government changes new government comes into office refused to pay the contractor three million dollars they refuse to pay madam speaker but the most interesting part of this is that when the company entered into a joint venture and i want them to tell their good friend their present spokesman to explain to them because the initial joint venture agreement was signed when the uwp was in office so i put all the records on the table you're not going back and say that is not what it is the joint venture was signed back then when the uwp was in office in 2011 it was a joint venture between n hc and bo that's a british company the company paid madam speaker 51 dollars 51 ec dollars to own 51 shares of the joint venture company but the joint venture company had no assets at the time you know what they did when they came into government madam speaker they vested the 58 acres of land in river dory they vested the 58 acres into the joint venture company now the member for view for south a dollar an acre so the member for view for south talks about procedure he was the minister of finance asked him whether a company can own land in st lusia in excess of 50 without having an alien land holding license but this company by some magic through the cabinet or through the agency responsible got to be a 51 shareholder of the 58 acres of land in river dory without an alien land holding license now when i went back and i did the division madam speaker 51 percent of 58.276 acres work out to about 29.8 you can round it off 30 acres so this company became the owner of 30 acres of prime land in river dory for 51 ec dollars now you think that if that was it madam speaker then we are lucky you know what they did i have all the invoices here and madam speaker i can make it a document of the house from peter i foster chambers i will make it a document of the house madam speaker that a lawyer now had a best part after the people got our 30 acres of land for 51 dollars madam speaker they now pay a lawyer and the lawyer says to them apparently it's n hc doesn't have the money that is required so i want an advance payment for me to represent n hc can make it a document of the house madam speaker so it can go in the record with reference to your letter dated 5th september 2014 please be advised that the sum of 15 000 dollars requested in our proposed engagement letter is a returner against which we will build the basis for our billing will be at an hourly rate at an hourly rate mr peter foster qc and the undersigned will bill at an hourly rate of one thousand and eight dollars and eight cents and eight hundred and six dollars and 46 cents respectively the hourly rate for other lawyers in the firm range from 403 dollars and 23 cents all of these figures are in ec to 712 dollars and 37 cents so we we received 51 dollars we lost 40 acres of land but here are the fees we are paying now for the lawyer to go and do what madam speaker we now hire the lawyer to try and get back the land that we gave so here's the cabinet they give the people 51 acres they give them 51 percent of the 58 acres of land and then they now hire a lawyer to go back and get the land to be returned to the nhc and you know the lawyers lose the case you know up to now the land madam speaker now that's one set of lawyers they have other lawyers fees there 136 000 all kinds of figures now madam speaker the member for castries he speaks about motive you want to speak about motive with ojo labs what was the motive for giving the land nobody didn't put a gun to your head and tell you give the land you give it away and then you go and hire a lawyer to claim it back there's no motive there madam speaker ask him what was the motive that's why we need the artificial intelligent madam speaker we don't have to anybody the people can make up you see you continue to underestimate the people of san lusian you think that politicians can fool the people but i know politicians can fool the people when the people don't want us in the house again they put us out it's not because anybody fooled them and they didn't want you again and they put you out so behave yourself madam speaker madam speaker so the member speaks about what was the motive so i want to ask them when one of them take their feet because they couldn't speak the last time so i guess this time they can't speak they have mustered some courage now they can speak when they come to speak i want them to respond to how what was the motive for giving this now madam speaker you think it ended there after they refused to pay the man who did the work three million dollars for his work he took the government to court in 2015 they lost the case never made any arrangement to pay him the court now put the property up for auction on the 25th of july so 58 acres of land the court awarded judgment to the tune of seven million dollars to the contractor you want to talk about management the member for ufort south and the rest of you who are in the cabinet when i tell you if i do that i report into body lay i don't need nobody to come and arrest me yes if i ever manage this economy like this if i ever manage the ministry of housing in the manner that this previous government manages i'm reporting myself yes i'm always careful so madam speaker now we have a lawsuit we have to come up with seven million dollars to pay before the 25th of july or the land goes up for auction fortunately madam speaker we were able to intervene and put the upset price at seven at about seven million dollars so at least if it goes up for auction we are covered what law i broke no we had to appeal to the court to set the upset price you understand anything you say in there we cannot buy is the court selling we requested for your information no i thought you had understanding but now i realize your most basic understanding is not there because i have said madam speaker it is a matter that is in the court i have no say in this all we could do is request that an upset price be put in place so that if the property if the auction goes through at least we are not losing the land and then still have money owing madam speaker that was the level of management now that's just one of them madam speaker just one item i chose to highlight today and at every sitting i will highlight another one just on the housing to know the amount of chaos that happened under there watch madam speaker but today they want to advise us so madam speaker for 51 ec dollars is all we receive and we have paid it has caught it is now costing us 58 acres of land of 7 million dollars we have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to labor party lawyers their own lawyers now you want to talk about motive when i saw the number of stop notices that was issued madam speaker the number of things that came into question i cannot understand how we lost the case so i believe that one have motive i believe there was motive for losing the case maybe the intention was that we should always lose the case but some people should make money i don't know madam speaker because when i wear the evidence that i am seeing and so madam speaker when we talk about the management of the economy when we talk about what brought us to where we are as them they did a whole development that we are the land don't belong to us they put roads they put everything they didn't know that the land we do not have full title to the land i now have to go back to cabinet and do an acquisition to try and regularize it madam speaker these members on the opposite side were playing politics which is what they do best and they never manage the affairs of this country so today madam speaker when this honorable prime minister comes to this honorable house and seek the approval of the house to borrow money solutions can rest assured that this will be money well spent this will be money that is used to grow this economy to clean up the mess created by the previous administration you want to know about the role of all that you think you don't know you know you know what you left there you're not supposed to be a tax consultant you don't know what you don't know what mess you left the country yes i always paid by taxes i never get pardoned by i never get pardoned by bank of st lusia when i had overdraft you know i paid for it those who benefit from it they know themselves they in this house when they were owing and they wrote it off for them you think i don't know i know everything i have i work for it and i pay for it no handovers so i want you i want the members in this house to understand that the people of st lusia know the things that are happening madam speaker and we had some bad managers who left this country in a crisis situation madam speaker and that is why this budget has such a large deficit i heard of i'll close on this point madam speaker i heard the member for view for north say why would the prime minister come and say this when he knows he has to go on the bond market this is honesty this is integrity this is transparency we are not creating a false sense of where this economy is at madam speaker did you mean view for south want to remember view for south sorry madam speaker thank you the member for view for south he wants to know why would the prime minister come because that is the reality we don't want to make people believe everything is nice just come but you know when you give people the truth madam speaker they know they can trust you they know they can depend on the information and they know that this is a government that is determined to turn around this economy and to make it work better and that is why i stand 100 behind this resolution because i know that we have a team of persons who are going to utilize the resources for the benefit of the people of this country i thank you madam speaker honorable member for view for north thank you madam speaker madam speaker i thank you for this opportunity and i did not intend to speak on this resolution and i didn't i really did not i really felt that the leader of the opposition and other members the ex-prime minister did justice to the resolution or to the to the motion madam speaker the question in the motion speaks to raising 103 million dollars to finance the 2017 2018 budget and i realized that this house not just the speaker but this house gave latitude to the member for castry south east to speak about nice ojo labs rochamel river dory people taking government to court level of management acquisition of property and so on and i thought it necessary to make a few comments in response and madam speaker i heard him speak about a certain name not being in the house it is to be recalled that this particular name is a minister when i was minister for agriculture i had no fear because i had a good record i could i could have spoken in this house this current minister for agriculture whom they speak of anytime i'm in the house he's afraid to speak before me that's the reality that's the reality i didn't run the last debate i spoke he's afraid to speak before me he's the minister so why is he afraid to speak before me i'm supposed to be a little fellow in my constituency he's afraid to speak so i'm not afraid my record is clear my record in the social and economic review i'm proud of and you can read it and compare all the figures are there my record is there so i'm very proud but having said so mr and madam speaker i wish to say that what happened a while ago with the member for castry south east is the very thing i suspect when i read the newspapers and when i read facebook and so on is the very thing that send lutions generally and young people in particular are tired of you know we are speaking out on a motion to borrow money to finance the budget and this gentleman member for castry south east comes with roger mel and he talks about he all did this and he all did that how many years ago and he's pontificating and this gentleman madam speaker believes that when he speaks rough and he dances around the parliament that that he is he's speaking things that matter but equally so madam speaker i don't want to go down that road but just for balance we can equally speak about he speaks about management and mismanagement he speaks about agencies taking the government to court i can speak about agencies when i became minister that wrote to our government threatening to take the government to court i can speak about the marketing board and some of what we had to deal with debts ranging from 2010 i can speak about what this minister of finance had to do to ensure that our assets overseas were secure because of of of imports by the marketing board and there are others i can speak about 60 million dollars or more for the reeds calton project we can we talk about those things also i can also speak about over 300 acres of land when you talk about reeds calton and the others we can speak about the black bear development we can speak about the diamond 30 something million dollars you see this is what i'm talking about so when he speaks about it the labor party comes to speak about it and this one comes to speak about it the young people who want to get into politics saying but what is wrong with those guys we're here to talk about 130 million dollars and the member for view for itself asks some pertinent questions so that we can move forward but the member goes and talks about all kinds of things so i need to respond what about management what about the the election of a deputy speaker we had a deputy speaker we had a deputy speaker in the house who was made a minister what about money what about this what about madam speaker when we speak about he spoke about the nice workers and ojo labs we have said over and over again nupaa against employee mark by setlissian we are not against it all we are saying is you cannot trust the word of this government they said that you can't use borrowed money you can't use money to finance the nice workers after pressure upon pressure they said the program should have ended but they kept parts of it you can't trust what they say they said the program should have ended but they turn around after pressure and they kept parts of it released the people whom they thought were labor party supporters and took in people whom they believe are united workers party supporters you can't trust what they say they also said madam speaker that you need to invest in skills but the very solutions that they released from the jobs in the nice program they turn back now and he's claiming that it is solutions who will be getting the one thousand dollars speaking from two sides of the of the face what are you really saying what are you really saying are you saying that you can use taxpayers money to fund ojo labs but you can't use taxpayers money to fund people who are taking care of the elderly that you can't use taxpayers money to fund people who are assisting principals in primary schools is that what you're saying so since he opened all of this up madam speaker i wish to continue what about what about the so the so-called deals for the for the airport in the previous government you want to bring documents to talk about things what about taxidoveillers you speak about roach and mel was about the taxidoveillers issue that went to court and the court determined that this now prime minister then minister that you really can't trust what he says what about that if you really want to start talking about open up old wounds but again is that what the young people want is that what they want is that what they really want because madam speaker madam speaker i rise on the point of elucination the madam speaker point of elucidation i don't yield what about taxidoveillers what about taxidoveillers what about taxidoveillers point of elucidation i do not hear you i do not wish to hear the report said point of elucidation never said that point of correction point of elucidation point of elucidation what about taxidoveillers so the point of making her madam speaker is this if we are talking about 130 million dollars that we that that's what we're talking about and i'm tired of very young people see when those politicians come and accuse each other why has none of them gone to jail why why are they coming to the house and pontificate and say oh dr. Antony did this and here are the documents and so on let's get serious you had an investigation into st. Jude's and you said some people will take jail because they deserve to take jail that is what the young people want to see bring the report send it to the dvp and let people pay because we are tired of bringing a simple bill to this house and this member for castry south is goes all down the donkey road about rochamel and this and that if you're talking about rochamel talk about taxidoveillers talk about what happened in taxidoveillers or blackmailers and then let the people of this country decide or can else and you talk about elections determine what happens of course and we accept madam speaker election we are not afraid we accept the decision of the people just like you two have lost elections some of you there that's the reality of life the member for babu no who tells himself as the the guru for agriculture he lost in an agriculture seat he lost in an agriculture seat he lost his seat he lost his seat so we accept we accept the results of elections and that is what happens when the people believe that we have not done what we should have done or when they believe what you tell them when they believe your marketing and so we accept but having accepted this don't come to the house and and and take a a simple thing let's debate where is the money coming from the the key questions it's a hundred and thirty a hundred and three million where you get in the rest from what are the interest rates how does it benefit the country and if you believe that we did something we stole money or whatever whatever take it to the right place it is time for politicians to stop it's time all the documents you learn in the house of who sold land there and who did this and whatever the people of Senusha they are tired of it when we were concerned about tuxedo villas we took it to court and we got a result and the result indicated what it said when we were concerned about the tywin his funds and what y'all did whether y'all y'all had souffle and banned and all of that whether y'all went to view Fort North and five hundred thousand dollars can't be accounted for up to now the people who are saying i'm a so-called i'm a so-called parliamentarian i'm a so-called rep let them answer to that and die and finish yet when we were concerned about it learn nook take concern about sir we caused an investigation to be had and we sent it to the DPP we took action we took action so so you know you come to the house and smiling grinning from from mouth to mouth when we speak about chtti you grin from mouth to air as if that's a puppy show as if it's a puppy show madam speaker all i'm saying is this there are key questions that need to be answered about the hundred and three million dollars the member forecasted southeast raised issues of management and if we are to raise each issues of management madam speaker we can go into what has happened to so many people who have lost their jobs so instead of continuing if a program of black sega toka what do they do they fire some of the key scientists and people who have been so successful if you want to talk about management and if you want to talk about management we can talk about what's happening to the national trust and if you want to talk about management we can talk about those contracts that have been signed by cdp contractors who have not gotten their monies and if you want to talk about management we can talk about what is happening to the artist and the cultural center and i believe madam speaker is a strategy to to blame moon that's what's happening to this government so when a serious matter comes you got to blow so the member forecast his office jumps up and he jumps on the number four for for view for south you know he got to play he brings back roger mel to play the prime minister says one thing in one interview he says the man will be the restrack out of his own money next thing the other interview comes back and say oh he's going to build it but we're going to refund him from cip to play so they are so they are mixing you up madam speaker with mixed messages and deliberate on truths so the people of senucia are not sure what's happening they're not sure what's happening so let us answer the key questions and stop talking about all of those things and if you want to talk about them if you do want to talk about them and there is a debate about them bring the documents bring documents if that's what the debate is about i'm not afraid of talking if that is what the debate is about bring the documents to the house and let the chips fall where they may if a government is serious if a government is serious about stopping this foolishness you know what they will do a point a special prosecutor put it in the hands of a special prosecutor let them investigate those things and let the chips fall where they may all the same jude's thing you're talking about let you realize madam speaker that's all i have to say madam speaker thank you honorable member for lab thank you very much madam speaker madam speaker i want to return to the central focus or what should be the central focus of this debate responding to a motion presented by the prime minister during the course of the opposition's response we call for sanity we issued another call for sanity we issued the call for sanity on the basis that one high debt to gdp ratio narrow's room for fiscal maneuver and for fiscal policy flexibility also madam speaker and i did quote from this document before in this honorable house and this is recorded in han side and it's an imf report that currency unions with fixed exchange rates can induce mutually conflicting fiscal incentives on the one hand fiscal overspending by one country can trigger a costly abandonment of the peg for the entire union thereby requiring utmost fiscal discipline by union members conversely under some conditions member governments can defer the cost of fiscal slippages to the future or share them with other members which induces moral hazard behavior fiscal policies in the eastern caribbean currency union countries have become more expansionary over time and in comparison with other caribbean countries primary balances in the ecu countries have been persistently deteriorating for more than a decade reflecting rapid buildup of expenditure and sluggish revenues and actual fiscal outcomes have progressively diverged from the fiscal guidelines established by the ecb's monetary council in 1998 on quote madam speaker we are pegged to the u.s. dollar and as as small islands in the eastern caribbean we do have a responsibility to maintain fiscal discipline in our jurisdiction in the period that i was in opposition and it was on the April 28th 2009 was i was in opposition for the very first time in warning this government about the possibility of that very same narrowing of room for fiscal maneuver i did indicate and i quote from government hand side april 28th 2009 page 91 madam speaker the weak fiscal position of the government can affect the change of expectations on the financial market since the current policies may lose the credibility if the economy is in a state of flux and there is uncertainty in the country even right now where we talk about bonds it may affect it because it will make it difficult if not impossible if we continue to go down the road like we have been doing for the government to finance the debt by issuing bonds on quote in the aftermath of that address to this honorable house we have difficulty raising monies because of that same type of behavior this same type of family behavior that when the opposition speaks take the time to research come to this honorable house and address themself to the case in point which is the motion before the house we are always confronted with abuse from the opposite side madam speaker in response to the call for sanity the member for kastri south east my good friend the member for kastri south east decides to attempt to belittle the former prime minister and minister for finance but what is this record what is the former prime minister and minister for finance record and i wish to quote from their own document fiscal and structural reforms in st lusia towards a comprehensive agenda and just the executive summary says and speaking about the period that the member for ufort south and former prime minister managed he said the improvement in fiscal performance in the past four years a clear acknowledgement that there was an improvement in the fiscal position of the country during the management of the former prime minister but more importantly madam speaker the period 19 the period 1997 to 2006 is a very interesting period a period that will set the record straight and that every school child and every individual in this country would be able to appreciate that what the member for kastri south east had been saying are vulnerable to the facts what are the facts madam speaker and i did in 2010 speak to the performance of the former prime minister in government handset and i quote the labor government under the leadership of dr kennedy and tony utilized the budget as a strategic instrument of development and change that was serious objective and focus and successfully moves st lusia from recovery to expansion during the period 1997 2006 from recovery to expansion how it all started on november 7 1997 six months after the may 23rd 1997 general election it became necessary for the new government to present a supplementary budget in which the new prime minister and minister for finance sought to rearrange the national priorities to suit the philosophical outlook of the labor party and to fulfill its promises as contained in this contract of faith the theme of this first budgetary statement was to lay the foundations to stabilize the economy and redefine its priorities and it was for a total of 124.9 million dollars for a six month period sustaining and stimulating growth on april 21st 1998 having succeeded in the initial task of stabilizing the economy and redefining the government's development priorities dr anthony presented his second budget address 1998 1999 which was really the first to cover a complete financial year of fiscal year under the theme stimulating and reorienting the economy towards sustained growth that budget was for 633.9 million dollars the next recovered reform recovery modernization and consolidation prime ministers and then it third to eighth budget addresses covered the following themes institutional reform economic consolidation and social recovery 1999 to 2000 a total of 744.4 million dollars strengthening modernizing and repositioning the economy 2000 to 2001 inspiring and sustaining development in a changing world 2001 2002 857.3 million dollars enhancing investment revitalizing agriculture and stimulating recovery 2002 to 2003 780.8 million dollars advancing infrastructural development and economic recovery in an uncertain world 2003 to 2004 863.3 million dollars strengthening modernizing and repositioning the economy 2004 to 2005 768.5 million dollars consolidating gains developing a world-class destination and enhancing human resource capacity 2005 to 2006 954.1 million dollars during that period the people philosophy was apparent the socioeconomic logic was sound and the programs were practical and realistic despite global challenges like new international trade rules under september 11 2001 terrorist attacks on the united states of america from as early as six months after september 11 prime minister kenny antony was able to report the very first signs of economic recovery a modest growth rate of 0.5 for 2001 a year later the economy was responding positively to the government's policies and rebounded well with a 3.1 growth rate investors were expressing more confidence the tourism and manufacturing sectors were picking up there was increased activity within the agricultural sector and infrastructural products and projects were proceeding at a rapid pace this was followed in 2003 with a growth rate of four percent as the signs of economic recovery became even more evident and infrastructural developments in the country increased the tourism sector had by then replaced the agricultural sector as the lead economic sector investor confidence was high with more local and foreign investments coming on stream over one billion dollars worth of investments had been committed to the tourism sector alone st lusia had become a world-class destination and all sectors of the economy were reporting progress including the agricultural sector which was adversely affected by climate change and a more active hurricane season regional and international financial institutions also praised the kenny antony government for its management of the best performing economy among the independent nations of the ocs from recovery to expansion dr anton is 2006 2007 budget of april 25 2006 was his last before the 2006 general elections but it is probably his best a record growth rate of 5.4 percent was reported and st lusia was again commended by international financial institutions for its management of the economy generally and for controlling the island's debt the 1.1 billion dollar budget which had at its theme from recovery to expansion was welcomed by all and reported progress in all sectors except agriculture and proposed no additional taxes it also projected a growth rate of 6.6 percent for that year and aimed to continue consolidating the gains of the past eight years while seeking to ensure that the state's finances supported sufficiently st lusia and the regions hosting of cricket will come 2007 without negatively affecting other sectors madam speaker among the priorities of the kenny antony administration were job creation poverty alleviation reduction of inequality and the overall growth of the country's wealth and it delivered on all those areas after its first year in office unemployment was already down to 16 percent confirmed by the imn but what was the report card at the end of 2006 what we left for the united workers party government the economy had grown by over 5.4 percent unemployment was down to 13.6 percent wealth was more evenly distributed in this country and indigents had been reduced significantly is that the failed policies of the st lusia labor party is that what you call a failed record and i challenged the united workers party administration to present any corresponding position and match it with that particular record you see madam speaker we must understand that in this honorable house we are here to make our contribution and maybe in future uwp cabinets when the name honorable guy joseph emerges they might even say who's that individual a future cabinet of either party they may not recognize us looking for trouble and try to butcher people in this house and attack them unnecessarily we are on different sides but don't try to take away what's due to the member for you for south he was an excellent prime minister but he's not god he's not perfect what we are here to do is to ensure that we study the short comments of the previous administration and try to build upon solid foundations that's what we are here to do not try to erase the record of an individual who grapple with the objective reality of a serious small and vulnerable economy but no fail policies and what are the policies that you have that are superior to the policies that he embers you try to lambe semen in the in the appropriation bill by indicating that in terms of tourism that you all had a new approach unlike the labor party and mentioned hotels that were the offsprings of a labor party government headed by the member for you for south headed by the member for you for south and we diversified into a number of different companies so that we do not put all our eggs in one basket because when you have one individual dominating and both husband and wife works for the very same company and you probably approach the bank for a loan they assess the risk of people being employed in the same company when we diversify we are diversifying the risk that is the type of thinking that was embraced by the former prime minister you talk about Rochamel Rochamel up to now nobody has presented a document and read from it and see these were the sections that were inimical to the well-being of the people of this country but we have picked up the dsh agreement the dsh agreement and we are reading the clauses in this agreement and showing clearly why it's inimical to the well-being of the people of this country but i challenged them to come with the Rochamel agreement and tell the people of st lucha what exactly they're talking about everybody confused what are they talking about you we need to stop this nonsense we need to be mature in this honorable house you want to debate policy let's debate policy but you all are unable to debate so you'll change the subject by attacking people unnecessarily let us engage in more mature discussions in this honorable house and i will continue madam speaker to address myself very seriously to the issues that tantalize our country i am not going to be sidetracked by anybody else when i stand up to make my contribution i make a contribution that is befitting the moment i thank you madam speaker honorable minister in the office of the prime minister with responsibility for tourism thank you madam speaker i rise to support this resolution brought to the minister by the minister of finance to borrow various sums of money to finance the budget madam speaker in the sum of 103 million dollars and a sum of 262 million madam speaker for the refinancing of existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5 percent madam speaker i i thought that we were going to come here and go through a very straight what is a very straightforward and normal procedure in the parliament but then you know madam speaker people who should know better came in and tried to create all kinds of confusion as though the prime minister and the minister of finance was doing something that was so unusual and so abnormal madam speaker i listened to the honorable member for castries east and he said that the deficit which uh we now have in this budget was one of the largest we are presiding over in a long time and madam speaker it has already been made a document of the house that the current deficit is 220 million but i want to quote for him on page 80 of the minister of finance uh former minister of finance page 18 of the 2015 page 80 sorry of the 2015 budget statement by the then prime minister and minister of finance which indicated that the deficit then not so long ago madam speaker was more than the deficit which we have projected in the current estimates madam speaker it suggested that the deficit and by his own admission i want to read his own word he said that the deficit projected is 227 million eastern caribbean dollars madam speaker which not so long ago was seven million dollars more than the deficit which we currently had so madam speaker i just want to correct the honor of a member and to admonish him that we ought to be responsible and take the time to do our research to make sure that we do not mislead the public as it pertains to the uh information uh madam speaker in this debate so that is the first point that i want to make madam speaker the other point i want to make madam speaker is the incoherence with which the two speakers i mean the we saw the member for castries east speaking first and then he said that uh the prime minister and minister of finance should explain where is he going to borrow the money from and suggested that the sums suggested here were insufficient to finance uh the budget and then just minutes later the his own former minister of finance explained to him in his speech that um as a minister of finance he understands uh the uh the need for a minister of finance to come and finance his budget and and such practices he said in his own words has actually happened before so i i'm just wondering madam speaker whether the attempt here is to find a political message and and we and as a result we see the desperation or whether the attempt is a serious attempt at adding to a serious debate to contribute to this country by the speaker we heard that um we see that uh the member for few for itself suggested that it was an unusually crafted resolution in his own words and said so and you know i thought to myself that when it comes to the operation of finances that we ought to be more concerned about substantial matters as it as it pertains to the behavior of government ministers and how they deal with public finances not whether a resolution is crafted well that is semantics right but what is more important or what is the level of governance what is the level of of diligence and what is the level of commitment that we will place on the structures and the behaviors of government ministers who when they're in office that will not madam speaker in any way on julie influence or use their position to influence boards so that we can have descriptions of accounts as ministers account that's a violation of good governance and you know what i found amusing is that we're going to depict those little issues but fail to deal with the fundamental challenges which we face in the governance of our country and so now you know the the uh the resolution was unusually crafted that's that's that's semantics let's deal with the bigger issues right let's ensure let's make a a rule a principle among ourselves to say that whether it is on this side or this side none of us should have a minister's account or there should be no account in the name of any minister resembling such modern speaker those are the financial structures and the financial principles by which we must modern speaker adhere to with diligence and commitment modern speaker so that we can avoid the situation that we have found ourselves in the honorable member for ufort south know fully well that what we have inherited modern speaker is a very difficult situation when we took over the debt stock it was nearing three billion dollars he said in his own uh budget speech of 2015 that the market modern speaker wasn't amenable to boring to lending uh st lusia because of our high debt levels that we had become high risk to investors and therefore they were not modern speaker amenable to lending us uh long-term loans it was said by him not me in his own budget statement of 2015 it is there it has been made a document of the house and now you're going to come honorable member to ask the question why is st lusia attracting such a higher rates of interest this was there in your time what we are trying to do is to correct that situation and modern speaker which is why when we came in our government took the policy position modern speaker that what we will try to do is to shift away from the short-term bonds and replace them with longer standing bonds modern speaker and lending arrangements so that what we would have done in effect modern speaker is reduce the interest rates by which uh the loans cost and so it's there it's in your own words i am not making up lies this is not about politics as usual we have to come to this honorable house and be consistent let us not prove bingo right let us not let that calypso that was written many years ago let let us let let us prove that wrong and let us show the country that we have moved on and and so when we say one thing in our position we mean another thing right and that is where we have to go let us be consistent you can't be now trying to put pressure or coming up with all of these statements and all of these principles you know lecturing the house when in your time you admitted honorable member for few four south through you madam speaker indicated that the market wasn't amenable since lucia had become higher risk madam speaker i saw madam speaker the the it must also be noted madam speaker that while the resolution clearly states clearly states clearly states madam speaker that the rate of interest madam speaker would be at a maximum of seven point five percent it did not say that it will be seven point five percent as some of the speakers may have tried to suggest here madam speaker and so madam speaker i want to give my fullest support i don't want to tell my friends that this government continues to be transparent this government continues to ensure that there's frank and full disclosure um and i was surprised to to hear you know people ask about you know the prime minister to to disclose frankly uh how he's going to finance the rest of the budget i mean frank and full disclosure i don't think any one of you are entitled to speak about frank and full disclosure honorable member your silence and jafar is deafening deafening and you want to talk about frank and full disclosure the house is still waiting for for there to be an explanation as to whether grindberg as to whether you knew that grenade was already in existing problems when you made the decision to sign off thousands of acres of the island seabed to a man whom we don't know right so we're not entitled to talk about frank and full disclosure i am happy to talk about anything you want to talk about anything you want to talk about right but let release your silence release your silence break your silence and jafali and then you can talk but you cannot you cannot know that court procedure is just semantics that's what you guys do you you come when you issue a liable suit to try and threaten people to silence them on issues and get them afraid that's that's semantics right but when you want to talk about frank and full disclosure okay when you want to be transparent when you want to be accountable and transparent let us talk about what and what led you to condone a minister in your government that that had an accountant's name that said this is the minister's account i mean come on madam speaker on a point of order the honorable member is misleading the house by suggesting that there was an account in my name a matter that we've addressed before in this honorable chamber and i'm asking that the statement be reviewed madam speaker there's nothing to redraw because i have made it absolutely clear that the honorable mem honorable minister with responsibility for tourism the honorable member for denry north is correct in saying that there has been whilst they have been an account called the minister's account let us not mistaken that or read into that that this account was in the minister's name that is something completely different and that point and that point is misleading and so i am i am ruling that this statement be withdrawn not an account in the name of the minister it's as an account called a minister's account that is something entirely different so let us not suggest that the account was in the name of the minister can we can you appreciate this the difference madam speaker the larger point here is that while the minister was in office there was a an account as it pertains to his ministry that was described as the minister's account correct described as the minister's account but let us not statements that there are there is an account in the minister's name that is something completely different that is the point being established consistently all throughout in that we're in i'm indicating that while the minister was in office there was an account in his ministry over which he had charge for described as the minister's account honorable minister please have a seat let us clear the air please statements are being made that there is an account in the minister's name that is quite different to a statement saying that there was an account called a minister's account the name of the account was a minister's account it was not an account in the name of a minister the name of a minister is dominic fading that is the name of a minister within your ministry to have a minister an account called a minister's account is quite different to an to an account being called an account in the name of the minister that is what i'm trying to establish and that that is what i do not want there to be any misunderstanding or misinterpretation of and your statement suggested or looted to the fact that the account may have been in the name of the personal name of the minister that is what i want clarified and saying that in itself is wrong madam speaker well please allow me to clarify what i am indicating and what i'm suggesting is that while the minister was in office madam speaker the ministry under his care the department which i'm going to make reference to is the national arteries and while that minister who happens to be the honorable member for denry south was in office and held the ministry denry north sorry held the ministry of sports portfolio in a department which falls directly under his ministry madam speaker uh there was described an account was described as the minister's account so that is i hope that we're now on the same page yeah but that is what i'm suggesting so i'm not saying that there was a i have never said madam speaker that there is an account in the name of honorable shon edwards but clearly there was an account and let me clarify and i'll say it again while the honorable member for denry north uh was the minister of sport there was an account described as the minister's account uh which he admitted madam speaker that he had uh he was allowed to facilitate certain projects and these are his own words okay so it might not have been called shon edwards but it was the minister's account described as the minister's account are we now clear yes okay so this is the point i'm trying to establish in going forward in that uh in my mind madam speaker this is a gross violation of good governance and what we ought to be worried about is not how a resolution is crafted but we ought to be worried about mostly about the structures of of governance and we have to ensure that the financial operation madam speaker that when ministers are given a responsibility to preside over large amounts of monies that there ought to be no account that is described as a minister's account and that is the point that is being established here madam speaker so i want to make it absolutely clear and i want to make sure that we are on the same page and is coherence in uh in your understanding in mind uh so so therefore madam speaker i'm going to reiterate the point that whether on this side or that side it should never be allowed for there to be an account in any minister's name madam speaker no sorry described as a minister's account madam speaker while you are presiding over the portfolio that that is that is the point being established and so madam speaker um we have to make sure that we adhere to prudent financial management and you know what was disappointing in this whole thing what was disappointing is that the honorable member for denry north stood next to a former minister of finance who then patted him on the back to say to him that you should challenge that and when it was raised by the honorable member for denry south that there was a description of an account named the minister's account that he was encouraged madam speaker by a former minister of finance to challenge the statement and now we are splitting hairs about how a resolution is crafted madam speaker this to my mind is semantics and this to my mind is a smaller issue the bigger issue there madam speaker is that there should never be any account described as a minister's account and madam speaker if any one of my colleagues would ever do that i will publicly criticize them to say that that is wrong there should not be madam speaker when we are charged with the responsibility of managing uh portfolios and uh for example the national lotteries there's a lot of money madam speaker that goes through an institution like that and madam speaker i want to make sure that this point is made clear and it is absolutely pure that none of us madam speaker this side that side should be allowed to have uh an account described as the minister's account so this is the point this is the point and i want to i want to make sure that that is so but it was sad to see that there was there seems to be a condoning of this practice when the honorable member for denry north received a pat in the back from his former minister of finance who asked him that he should challenge it that he should challenge the member for him imputing improper motives i sat here and i watched it and madam speaker it was one of the most disappointing days that i have seen in this house and so when i say this to establish a larger point that if you have sat an exam and you have failed you are therefore not entitled to lecture people and finances the debt of this country rose to unprecedented levels on the year's church and it's there and as a former minister of finance who's here in the gallery can tell you that uh when the labor party took over this country and the records will show in 1997 the debt to gdp ratio was just over 40 percent madam speaker by the end of their nine and a half years it rose by 50 percent the debt madam speaker was nearing 60 growing at a rate over nearly 50 percent and you can check the facts it's there and now you're coming to lecture people about finances i find that to be duplicitous i find that to be double standards and i find that madam speaker to be out of order so madam speaker i support this resolution by the minister of finance and i want to ensure the people of st lucia that this government is ready to get to work to finance its various programs and its various projects so that we can see this economy turned around thank you honorable member for denry north thank you madam speaker madam speaker after perusing the order paper this morning i had already made a decision not to speak on the motion that is currently before us and that resolved my energies to speak on a motion that more directly impacts the constituency of denry north but given what has been said prior to me turning on my microphone madam speaker i feel obligated not just from a personal standpoint but on behalf of the people of denry north to add my voice to the debate madam speaker we've been getting mixed signals ever since the city was convened it was a member for ancillary countries who cited the word incoherence it is obvious that there was no speaking plan on the government side you listen to the member for castry southeast and again madam speaker his affinity for history came to the fore instead of speaking on the immediate realities that confront our country madam speaker his preoccupation was centered around rochamel grindberg and things passe the member for ancillary can raise madam speaker who of late has become very amusing and the only thing you can glean out of the presentations that he has made in this honorable house ever since becoming the parliamentary representative for ancillary madam speaker is that he amuses and he is fast becoming a subject of laughter amusement and somebody you have to question whether you should take seriously or not madam speaker he cited the minister's account in trying to provide justification for the resolution that is before us and he did that with one intention as has been the collective intention of the united workers party and that is to defame me to derail my character madam speaker and to sully my name and my reputation madam speaker he gave the impression that there was an account belonging to the national office authority in my name a matter i must say madam speaker does not that does not resonate in the public domain solutions are a lot more discerning today than they will five years ago than they were ten years ago so that any attempt to play cheap politics and to try and derail my political efforts by trying to smear my name will not find favor with the electorate and the person whom you're trying to to impress in its contribution to the debate on the appropriation bill madam speaker the member for castries southeast the political hitman that he is for his organization sought to represent the interest of an entity or an organization which resides in the domain of three ministers in the cluster three ministers madam speaker but it was the member for castries southeast who was given who was given the the mandate the objective and the task honorable member for denry north may i recognize the mic of the honorable member for castries southeast and honorable member can you be so quick as to indicate madam speaker i'm standing on a point of elucidation i'm trying to understand political hitman i i am trying to understand i notice the member has cited a point of elucidation and not a point of order and so i am not inclined to yield to him point a river he made his when he made his remarks at the time madam speaker an hour was not sufficient time to do the task that was given to him he requested additional time so i would appreciate it very much if the member allows me to respond appropriately madam speaker he said a lot of things on a point of order madam speaker i would like to point of order i'd like to make reference to section 35 for to cite that offensive language is being used by the member who is now making his presentation when he refers to another member of the house as a politically honorable member for denry north order please order the honorable member for denry north cited the honorable member for castries southeast as a political hitman for his organization those were his exact words and it is offensive language and you should withdraw sir madam speaker i withdraw the comment madam speaker the member during his presentation was in a position madam speaker where he was able to present manipulated figures lies on truth madam speaker with one objective in mind and that it was to damage my reputation and what was baffling about it madam speaker the member was speaking on behalf of an agency which resides in a cluster where you have three ministers presiding over that cluster he came and he cited either ink a company which the member well the senator drachim henry has shares in madam speaker and because the national lotteries authority engaged either ink in a professional services contract he attempted to give the impression that the national lotteries authority and indirectly myself as minister had engaged in untold corruption and that what we had done was so offensive but you know what is most interesting about that madam speaker the member was making the pronouncement at a time when he was being accused nationally on radio and on television of having paid or offered bribes to former cabinet colleagues on a particular contract which he was trying to secure either for himself or persons close to him madam speaker i will say like the member for castry south until such time the member for castry southeast can come publicly and deny that he attempted to bribe a former cabinet colleague until such time he can come and deny that he attempted to bribe his own prime minister at the time madam speaker i will not waste time and respond to anything else he has said he came either ink and he was waving documents where did he get the documents from nobody knows they had done an investigation into the national lotteries authority that ought to have been the easiest of any investigation carried out by this government you know why because when i assumed ministerial responsibility for the national lotteries authority madam speaker i was instructed by some very close associates of mine they advised that the staff at the national lotteries authority office should be sent home but you know what madam speaker my response was very straightforward the staff at the national lotteries authority office had done nothing to me we were talking about individuals what bills to pay we were talking about people madam speaker who had commitments to the banks and i insisted that as long as i was going to be the minister responsible for youth development and sports the staff at the national lotteries authority whom i inherited from my predecessor minister member for grozily they were going to keep their jobs so that when you want to investigate today you should get the full cooperation of the same persons whom you employed prior to me becoming minister and i did not leave with any files or folders the information is there so that when he madam speaker cited that there were hundreds of checks of course there were hundreds of checks and i am not going to be apologetic for any money spent by the national lotteries authority and as a member from before before no one said it investigate probe when you get your findings take them to the right channels and hold me before the call today as we speak madam speaker the playing fields of st lucha are abandoned again and young people have to patch up with money to buy a gallon of fuel at the gas station so that they can cut a little area on the playing field so they can break a sweat on an afternoon that is happening today under your watch and instead of you coming here and engaging constructive discussion about the future of our country you've wasted a whole year and you come and you try to attack people's character you try to throw people under the bus and he also gave the impression madam speaker that one minister had 20 million or 15 million under his watch and that no permanent secretary or nobody was involved madam speaker let me read an example of a letter to you mr michael sent kathryn chairman national lotteries authority yeah mr sent kathryn grateful for processing the payment for co william's constructions and lucha limited please find attached invoice co william's construction limited 208 970 three dollars and 40 cents your kind usual cooperation is anticipated yours sincerely fortuna belarus permanent secretary and i can produce scores of letters like this where madam speaker it cannot be said it cannot be said madam speaker that i acted unilaterally i never did madam speaker and at no point and it is he the member for kathryn south is who said that nobody puts a gun to anybody's head and that if the chairman of the national lotteries authority was not satisfied with what money's had to be expended on madam speaker he had a right as had happened before to reject whatever came before the board i can only provide direction i was never involved in the operations of the national lotteries authority but that is honest thing about it madam speaker when was the minister's account set up and what was the purpose of that account being set up and that is very easy to verify all you have to do is to go to the commercial banks and in the case of lotteries two of them the scorser bank and the bank of sent lucha and it was set up during the reign of the member for grizzly and madam speaker why was the account set up the united workers party madam speaker on the point of order the the member is misleading the house here by suggesting that i set up any account okay there was there was no minister's order during my reign order no account referred to as the minister's account no order no account known as the minister of minister's account was set up during my reign madam speaker this is very easy to verify you go into the banks where the lotteries monies have been banked and you look at the opening dates of the account and i want you to come in this honorable house and show me one account that was set up at any bank when i was the minister for youth development and i will tell you how to set up the account and you know what is most this concept my mic is on honorable member for denry north you have in your words indicated that the account called the minister's account of which there has been much debate on was not set up or you are indicating that it was not set up during your tenure as the minister with responsibility for sports and therefore the national lottery and you have also indicated and stated that it was set up during the tenure and that would i would believe during the period 2006 to 2011 somewhere during that time during the tenure of the the member of the current member for grozily having held that portfolio which is the portfolio held you held because he previously held it since you have indicated you have indicated that the honorable member for grozily has stood up on a point of order to say that it was not done during his tenure minister you might as well can i ask that you indicate to the honorable house when was that account set up because you have indicated that it was not set up during your tenure and you came and find it you found it madam speaker madam speaker i would like some order in this house please yes thank you madam speaker thank you madam speaker the account was set up when the government of the united workers party by his own admission was inundated with requests from young people madam speaker to attend university and to further their education the amount allocated in the ministry of the public service was grossly insufficient which prompted the minister who had responsibility for the two ministries separate ministries the ministry of the public service and human resource development and he was also the minister for social transformation youth and sports and madam speaker here's the letter that was sent to the chairman of the lotteries board now i can understand if you take in monies from lotteries to fund a program that is aligned with the ministry of youth development on spot then yes that is okay but the national lotteries authority money and to the best of my recollection close to two million dollars madam speaker was being asked to trans the chairman was being asked to transfer that money from the lotteries to finance the programs of the ministry of the public service and i will read the letter madam speaker madam speaker on a point of order 35 five the member for denry north is imprudent in proper motive and is misleading the house i am minister of the public service at no time ask the national lotteries board to allocate any finances for the purpose of awarding scholarships neither have i at any time indicated that we had a problem meeting scholarships and that i asked the board at the time to give scholarships to any young person i've never said so i've never done so and i want the member for denry north if he cannot produce evidence to substantiate what he just said to withdraw the statement that he just i agree honorable member for denry north you have been citing document and waving a letter or a document in your hand the honorable member for the honorable minister and member for grossly has asked to which i will concur that you make that document and proof of your allegation make it a document of the house and show proof and i ask that it be done now thank you madam speaker madam speaker permit me to read this letter into the record let's just not read can we can we make copies yes madam speaker we will make it the document of the house and start at the date mr november 2nd 2011 when was the election november 2nd 2011 letterhead ministry of the public service and human resource development communication on this subject should be addressed to the honorable minister graham louisie administrative building second floor waterfront castries st louisia westindies november 2nd 2011 mr allison mafren chairman st louisia national lotteries authority colony house john compton highway castries dear mr mafren we request for financial assistance coming from the ministry of the public service the government of st louisia has received numerous requests for financial assistance from young persons seeking to further their education at local regional and international learning institutions to date we have assisted a significant number of students but due to financial constraints there are still persons whom we were unable to assist in light of the above i am seeking assistance from the national lotteries authority towards the education costs plural of students on the attached list thanking you in anticipation of your usual cooperation yours sincerely honorable lenard montuc minister madam speaker madam speaker this was the basis for the account being set up madam speaker and madam speaker again i rise on a point of order and madam speaker i will clarify this matter because the honorable member is misleading the house i want to indicate that the account being referred to by several members in this honorable house as the minister's account with in fact the account that was referred to by the border pointed by the member for denry north as the minister's account the the same account that he referred to that he had jurisdiction over and was able on occasions to disburse funds to members without going to the border that account was in fact set up way back somewhere around 2009 2010 because at the time the a national lottery but not as an would you allow me to make my presentation in silence please hold your houses because at the time the national lottery was responsible for sponsoring the windward island schools team to the windward island games in that year in that year they were not able to meet the cost the finances to sponsor the team and as a result a member of the board who represented the ministry of sports mr victor read made the recommendation as a board member that they should set up a separate account to which five thousand dollars would be deposited for the purpose of securing the funding that is required to sponsor the windward island team not for a minister as a minister's account not for a minister to have jurisdiction over but for the purpose of sponsoring the windward island subsequently madam speaker can we stop the knocking while i get my head to understanding and listening to what the honorable members the honorable members explanation please thank you so subsequently during the tenure of the member for denry north he wrote to the board asking that a certain quarter of the the proceeds of the national lottery be put into that account so that he could have jurisdiction over that money and decide how it would be spent that is when it became and was referred to as the minister's he said do you have a lot to do I'm trying to get my head around it, that's the honest truth. If I may, Honourable Member, Minister for Equity and Member for Grusley, at the time the account was set up sometime in 2009, you indicated, what was the account called? Madam Sviggur, it was an account opened by the National Lottery's Board for the purpose of putting an allocation of $5,000 monthly towards raising the money required to sponsor the Wynood Island School steam annually. And you are saying the sole purpose of this account was to do that? Subsequently, it was transformed to what is referred to as the Minister's account on the strength of a letter written by the Member for Dennery North who asked that a third of the proceeds of the National Lottery be deposited in that account and that he would have jurisdiction and dictate how that money is spent. Just for disclosure as well, I'm sure you had sight or wind of the touch list, do you have it? I don't have it with me today Madam Sviggur. Okay, can we ask that the document, Sajj, can you take this letter and get 20 copies please? Proceed Honourable Member for Dennery North. Thank you Madam Speaker. It's amazing how convenient the wood semantics can be used to justify the position of some people Madam Speaker. But all of a sudden it is no more semantics. But I'm very happy that the Member for Gruzile was able to tell the Honourable House that the account was established in 2009. Thank you very much. Madam Speaker, the Member for Caster East during his presentation he cited that or he gave the impression that I had unilateral control over the disbursement of National Lottery's authority. Thank you Madam Speaker. When the Permanent Secretary at the time in the Ministry of Youth Development and Sports Madam Speaker can write scores of letters seeking amounts ranging from as low as $2,000 to more than a quarter million dollars. Madam Speaker, to the National Lottery's authority asking for payments to be expedited and you must understand the context in which that was happening. But I will never stoop to a level and make it seem that anybody had any ulterior motive as it relates to the expenditure of the National Lottery's authority. Madam Speaker, I've said before and I'm going to say it again and I will be very consistent. The Ministry of Youth Development and Sports suffered a massive budget cut but luckily for us we had that extra source called the National Lottery's authority. So that when I sat with my PS who happens to be a member of your Cabinet she knew exactly how much we had to play with to finance the capital projects in the Ministry of Youth Development and Sports and that she could have picked up her pen Madam Speaker and write to the Chairman of Lottery's. But the thing about the National Lottery's authority act is that it does not recognize the Permanent Secretary and projects can only be approved by either the Board or the Minister. So that when the PS Madam Speaker comes with the paving of the court at the VG Sports Complex Madam Speaker she can sit down with C.O. Williams a great one amount and then she brings the documentation onto my desk for approval because the act gives me the authority is added to the Board and the PS will not go and sit at the Board meeting to get this approved because the work of the Ministry has to go on and there are scores of letters Madam Speaker that can be produced to substantiate what I am saying. Madam Speaker on social media in this chamber attack attack attack to go at my credibility to go you've wasted an entire year you've busted your travel budget you've not been able to secure any investment in your list of accomplishments after one year in office very glaringly on your slate portholing of the Millennium Highway but you think your energy is the best spent to come and attack my credibility and make it seem as if I are you not as shameful about it Madam Speaker there is one person who is the lead vocalist and is able to drag people along with him and even the Prime Minister buys into that and in his rebuttal on the debate on the estimates Madam Speaker make it in reference to National Lodges Authority to suggest that I did something the member for Ufotunov has said it is I did something wrong as Minister for National Lodges Authority and prepared to suffer the consequences and I will go further to say Madam Speaker that when he came and I must admit I was not prepared for this presentation he spoke at length about the Marigold Plain facility and I authorized or sanctioned the project at Marigold where a changing room was built for the young people in the Rosa Valley Madam Speaker to be able to recreate, get toilet facilities and to raise the profile of the sports programs in that community I was vilified for doing that but this Prime Minister and if you go to Marigold you will find that there is a changing room you spent $800,000 on a tent where is your tent? but if you live here today there is a changing room down in Marigold that is what Lodges money was used for and you have to go Madam Speaker through you go and check the projects of the National Lodges across the length and breadth of this country Madam Speaker when I inherited the Ministry of Youth Development and Sports the plain fields of our country were abundant abundant abundant and I had a picture to prove it Philip Maslain, Olibo, Larisus all these fields were abundant why don't you focus your energy on programming in such a way that it will take our country from the malaise that it is in and you must understand that you cannot do it alone you need the opposition to work in tandem with you in order to achieve the objectives you would have set for this country but you preoccupied with character assassination come and defend people come and attack my credibility call people names that is what you are good for I'll tell you this Madam Speaker I am not one who encourages the politics of controversy I came into the Ministry of Sports and National Lodges not for once did I go public and say that I saw anything at Lodges that may not have been in conformity with the act and come here and speak about it or attempted to defame anybody without this concern I was able to get along with the work of my department and my ministry and Madam Speaker I am proud of my record as a Minister for Youth Development and Sports I am proud of my record as a Minister for Youth Development and Sports and after one year after one year the sportsmen and women in this country are complaining playing fields are abundant again there is no program at the community level what do you have to show for one year you'd be better off if you come into this honourable house you need to go through a period of introspection the campaign is over, you've won you are ministers you have a responsibility to this country go ahead and work for the country don't come here and try to assassinate people's character that is not what you were elected for you've secured the victory behave like ministers behave like individuals who have to play a lead role in moving this country forward thank you Madam Speaker Honourable Minister in the Ministry of Equity, Social Justice, Empowerment Youth Development and Sports Culture and Member for Dennery South Madam Speaker I'd like to propose that we take a recess for lunch Honourable Minister, are you yielding to the Prime Minister? Yes, he did I asked him a question My apologies Madam Speaker Yes Madam Speaker, I'm suggesting given the time that we can maybe break for lunch suggesting if we can maybe come back for 2 o'clock Madam Speaker if not 2 o'clock Leader of the Opposition 2 o'clock is 50 minutes is that okay 2 o'clock Madam Speaker Honourable Members is that this House be suspended until 2 o'clock in the afternoon I now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye as many as of a contrary opinion say no I think the ayes have it the ayes have it the House of Assembly has been suspended for a lunch break until 2 p.m. we are on the second motion on the order paper for today and that motion is that be it resolved that Parliament authorizes the Minister for Finance to raise a sum of EC 103 million dollars to finance the 2017-2018 budget and a sum of 262 million EC dollars for refinancing the existing debts on the regional government securities market or through private placements at a maximum rate of 7.5% there are two more money motions down for today before we head into the bill segment of the order paper where we expect one, two, three, four bills to go through all the stages at this present sitting and one bill to go through first reading it remains to be seen how the rest of the order paper will go for the afternoon session but be sure to tune into the National Television Network at 2 p.m. where we resume today's House of Assembly proceedings from the Government Information Service I am Alicia Ali I am expediting budget