 On Saturday, the Attorney General Martin said it would make it difficult or impossible for to get Irish people out of Gaza to expel the Israeli ambassador because his opposite numbered would then have to leave Israel. What do you say to that? No, it's Israel's bombing of Gaza and their refusal to let people out. That is the obstacle to people being able to exit Gaza and indeed for hostages to be freed. It's Israel's massacre that is taking place. It's refusal to even go along with a ceasefire and it's refusal to let people in or out in any significant numbers out of the territory that they are bombarding on a savage basis. That's the problem. And it's clear that taking a sort of diplomatic or polite approach with Israel has yielded absolutely nothing. So now we need punitive sanctions to be imposed on Israel, to put pressure on it, to end this massacre that is taking place in Gaza and to allow people, pardon? In the first instance, the expulsion of the ambassador and the closing down of the embassy. Our personal view is that there should be a full boycott, sanctions, comprehensive sanctions and divestment from Israel similar to the campaign of boycott and sanctions that was imposed on apartheid South Africa. We believe, in fact, the crimes that Israel are committing on an ongoing basis, not just in Gaza over the last month, but for years now, merit sanctions of that sort in order to end their impunity and hold them accountable for the ongoing crimes of ethnic clenching of illegal occupation, for the seizure of Palestinian lands, for the killing of Palestinians on a regular basis and for the siege of Gaza itself, a collective punishment of 2.2 million people that has been going on for 16 years and which is the real cause of the current escalation of violence. I think the difference here is that we are dealing not with a normal state of any description. The Putin's invasion of Ukraine is despicable. It is an indefensible, aggressive military action on apar with the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, which we opposed, just as we opposed Putin's invasion, but we didn't call for sanctions against the United States in 2003 because we understood that that murderous invasion was a policy decision of a particular government. So we didn't believe it was appropriate to impose sanctions on all of the American people, and we would have a similar view of Russia. The difference with Israel, like apartheid South Africa, is the state itself is built on policies of ethnic cleansing and of apartheid and of racism. So it's not what the horrors that are being inflicted and the crimes that are being inflicted on Palestinians are not the result of this or that government. They are actually written in to the structures of the Israeli state, just as they were in apartheid South Africa, and the world needs to recognize that, that the barbarism we are witnessing now is an outworking of the internal logic of a state that is built on ethnic cleansing, apartheid and racism.