 Good afternoon. We're going to get started with the reading of My Father's Bones by Susan Shown Harjo and Mary Catherine Nagel 2nd Fox Nation Jack stands in the northeast corner of the cemetery. He is surrounded by tombstones each one displaying the name of a sibling aunt uncle grandparents or other relative So here we are This is it These are the trees that surrounded him. Can you hear them? the birds Those are the birds that sang to him. Oh Yeah in the sky that big pink Oklahoma sky and The Red Earth My dad played in this dirt when he was a kid This is my home his home We were born in this dirt and When we die We go back to this dirt or at least that's what dad wanted Grandma and grandpa They're here now Over here, that's my auntie My dad's brother my uncle some of my cousins Dad's twin Died when he was nine It's buried right here. We're all here except dad They took him far away from here to bury him Some place they named the burl of Pennsylvania a Place he'd never even seen My dad you may know him Or maybe you think you know him Sure, he was famous and now He won some gold medals at the Olympics But that didn't change who he was To my dad he was always Sack and Pox Thunder clan of the Sack and Pox nation. That's one thing you should know about us Indians We're no different than white people or any other kind of folks for that matter We want to bury our loved ones with our loved ones With our mothers our fathers and our brothers. I spent years trying to bring dad back I begged I pleaded I Prayed and when that didn't work. I did what you non-natives do all the time. I Filed a lawsuit Steve Ward and Bill enter Tulsa, Oklahoma February 2015 We lost how is that possible appellate court says judge caputo got it wrong that the didn't that the native American graves Protection and repatriation act NACPRA doesn't apply because dad wasn't Native American no They said the burl isn't actually holding his remains. No They said the burl doesn't even receive federal funds. No Well, what did they say they said that applying the plain text of the statute here would lead to a result that Congress never intended They think Congress didn't intend for us to win, right under the statute we win, but they applied the absurdity doctrine What is the absurdity doctrine it's a doctrine that courts apply when they don't like the result of applying the plain language of a statute They call that a doctrine. I agree. It's absurd. I'll tell you what's absurd a White woman can go walking in Interrupt a native burial ceremony Take my father's body and sell it and a court will conclude that NACPRA Doesn't apply because to allow my father to be buried with these relatives on second Fox soil is Absurd, I know you're upset We have to appeal After the argument in the third circuit you said if we lose here We have the option of appealing to the Supreme Court. We do But do you think we should Indians lose about 98% of the cases they bring to the Supreme Court Then why do we keep bringing them because there's no other choice? I told my brother. I'd never give up Okay, I'm just telling you Indians don't have a good track record in front of the court Dad always said he never saw a record. He couldn't break My father's name was what they should cook Or as you would say in English The bright path the lightning makes as it goes across the sky He was the most incredible athlete of the 20th century Most remember him as Jim Thorpe and for the gold medals he won in the 1912 Olympics He won both the decathlon and the pentathlon of feet. No one's ever duplicated His scores in the combined 15 events were off the charts He set records that took decades to break What do you remember my dad for? the medals he won the records he broke or The town that changed his name to his Me I just remember him as dad Because that's who he was to me Michael so Franco and secretary enter the mayor's office in borough of Jim Thorpe February 2015 Feels good doesn't it you didn't think we'd win. I wasn't sure but we signed a contract Yeah, well, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a common citizen and as a common citizen I always thought a contract was a contract no matter how you slice it But apparently in some instances, it's not you aren't a common citizen. You're our mayor I'm just glad we won Glad we got that district court overturned. You know I voted for you twice Thank you, and I think you're doing an amazing job. I don't know how you do it I get out of bed every morning. That's the first step So if we won that means no more depositions no more late-night brief reading no more long conference calls. It's over This is an American legal system. It's never over. You just said we won the appeal in the third circuit They could appeal to the Supreme Court My grandpa always talked about before When this was mock chunk, I wasn't alive then but he was and I remembered And he remembered before we were named Jim Thorpe back when we had coal mines But by the time my dad was old enough to work the mines were all shut down not a single one left open So daddy always said Jim Thorpe's all we have We don't have mines anymore and we don't have the ridge above the river where folks used to come and hike Because they mined it away So all we got in this town is a dead Indian He's buried here We're honoring him They can't ever take that away from us. We won't let him Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act It's a little thing Congress put together and passed in 1990 for our civil rights Native American human rights When Congress found out about a serious problem in America For some reason a Lot of non-native folks think they should be able to buy and sell our remains and the remains of our ancestors our hair bones and skulls Scientists were digging up our heads to study them Some were collecting our bones for trophies others were using them as tourist attractions But we're human We're people and just like any other folks We have the inalienable right to be buried in the same soil as our relatives and To have our ashes sent to the many directions from places of our choosing NACRA recognized that we have that right and Then this court in Pennsylvania Denied us that human right. Have you ever had your deposition taken? I think it would be fun Michael so Franco enters and moves to the table with chairs Steve Ward sits across from him October 23 2012 Leighton, Pennsylvania the court reporter sits typing every word that's spoken Mr. So Franco, would you please state your name for the record? Michael J. So Franco Mr. So Franco, do you hold a public office with the defendant the borough of Jim Thorpe? Yes I am currently the elected mayor. Are you a resident of the borough of Jim Thorpe? Yes lifelong resident Mr. So Franco, why was Jim Thorpe buried in the borough? I think I would tell you that my understanding would be From what history tells me they were looking for a place to honor the athlete To honor the many accomplishments of Jim Thorpe Patricia Thorpe had been looking for that in a place that would rightfully honor her husband So just to be clear you never met with her Patricia Thorpe No, Joseph Boyle along with the members of the committee would have sat down and met with her and said You know we would like to honor him and show truly what he deserves for his accomplishments And this is the reason Jim Thorpe would have been buried there That would have been the overwhelming reason to why he was there. Were there other reasons? Obviously the two towns coming together and to have one you'd find it one unified name would be a second reason because There were reasons the two boroughs needed to come together and you know Were we going to be East Mock Chunk, Upper Mock Chunk, West Mock Chunk, whatever chunk that all would have been an issue I wanted to interrupt. So by having one common name for the entire borough would have been a second reason But of course I didn't. Getting that together would have been That all would have been the reason yes One final question. I wanted to ask do you have proof of the contract you claim to have signed? Why won't you let my dad come home? There was a contract, but then again you're asking me if I have any proof of that or any documentation on that and I can't Show you that. If I could take you back to 1954, I'm sure I could take you to a coffee shop I'm sure I could take you to a breakfast area and say hey They sat down at a kitchen table or a dining room table, or they sat down in a diner and Discuss hey, what are we going to do about this? But as far as the official borough documentation that I could show this was being discussed at the time no I Have nothing that I as the mayor right now can show you But Patricia Thorpe showed up and they signed a contract Thank you that concludes my questioning. It's 3 36 p.m. Eastern Standard Time October 23rd to 2012 we're off the record Michael so Franco exits July 16th 2012 Tulsa, Oklahoma What if I don't know what to say just answer his questions and listen for my objections. I'm nervous. You'll do fine Can we cancel you have to testify? Why me this is your lawsuit? This is Jack's lawsuit. He filed it and you joined it because he asked me to Depositions are very intimidating. I know I'm not Intimidated remember what we discussed if you don't know the answer to a question you say I don't know But I don't know I don't know what to say to convince these people to let us bring dad home If I knew I would have said it by now. I would have said it years ago. I Remember when Jack ran for principal chief. I looked at him and I knew He had a plan He was gonna bring dad home but now Jack's down there and I'm up here and if I don't say the right thing they won't let dad come home Kind of makes me want to say nothing at all William Schwab enters and sits on the other side of the table The court reporter types every word that's spoken Bill takes his seat at the table Mr. Thorpe, my name is Bill Schwab. I'm the attorney for the borough of Jim Thorpe I'll be asking a few questions today Now you've you filed a complaint in the matter in which you've made an allegation that your dog your father died in 1953 that is remains were shopped to several cities my brother filed the complaint right and He's passed now. I realized this. I'm just trying to understand when your brother filed the complaint What did he mean when he wrote that your father's remains were shopped to several cities? Objection complaint speaks for itself. He filed it. I'm entitled to ask him about it. You can answer the question What was the question? How is it that you claim that your father's remains were shopped to several cities? To my knowledge Patsy his third wife She came in and removed his body from a ceremony our Indian burial ceremony that was taking place with the second Fox tribe They came in with a hearse and a sheriff or state patrol and took his body doing our farewell dinner. Were you present? Yes, I was present and how old were you at the time at that time? I probably let's see coming out of service probably 25 26 years old now your father passed unexpectedly in 1953 yes Did you ever ever have a conversation with your father about his burial or his burial plans as far as dad was concerned? At different occasions throughout our lifetimes Yeah, he had mentioned that he wanted to be put in rest in Oklahoma in the in the tribal grounds Did your dad have a will when he passed to my knowledge? No, and a state was raised for him though pardon and a state was raised for him I'm not you don't know. No, I had come back from Korea at the time he passed So I don't know what went on in California Were you aware that Patsy entered into a contract with a borough of Machunk and East Machunk on May 19 1954 objection calls for illegal conclusion you can answer I Understood they had something but I of course I wasn't there to know all the points of it Have you ever seen the contract? No Were you aware that the two boroughs would under the contract have to merge and consolidate themselves under the name of Jim Thorpe That's what I heard where you're aware that the obligation would be binding on the heirs Administrators and executors for so long as the boroughs of East Machunk and Machunk parties here on to are officially known or designated as Jim Thorpe Okay Now we're talking about heirs Who put the heirs in there we're the heirs, but we weren't aware of this That was my question. Were you aware of this? No Now on paragraph 21 of your complaint You've alleged that NAGPRA was a legal tool to prevent the exploitation and commercialization of remains of their ancestors and elders Uh-huh. I'm sorry. Was that a yes? Yes Do you believe that the borough of Jim Thorpe is doing that today? Yes Borough of Jim Thorpe How are they doing that? I would say commercially they're using my dad's remains to bring people to their town to visit also commercially I Understand that they've named a lot of facilities in the town under his name like I guess they got laundries and different things like that Jim Thorpe or whatever. I really don't know, you know, which ones but I've heard there They've got a number of places that use his name. So the borough of Jim Thorpe by having businesses named after the borough They're exploiting your father's name commercially, I mean, they're drawing money from the name uh-huh and You live in Arlington, Texas. Yes. Okay. Is there an Arlington laundromat? Don't know is there an Arlington beer distributor. What about an Arlington library objection? You've made your point Why don't you ask a question with some relevance to the issues in the case? Now my understanding is that and and please correct me because Pennsylvania is not rich with Indian heritage Well, I shouldn't say that we're rich with Indian heritage But not with Sorry, sure not with Indians and that we get familiar with their practices Okay My understanding is once an Indian is buried in sanctified land. That's now sacred than his Soul is at rest. Is that your understanding? I Really don't think so. I mean I mean his burial should have been completed at the second Fox ceremony But it was interrupted. So his first ceremony was never completed never completed But your half-sister grace completed one in Pennsylvania. That wasn't a second Fox completion What you did was a ceremony from a different tribe. That's not who dad was So the second Fox burial by your half-sister grace in Pennsylvania. That wasn't a second Fox burial Okay If someone was to show you that it was a second Fox burial Would your opinion be different as to its legitimacy? No, we don't need you to show us. What is and is not second Fox. I Know what second Fox and you aren't second Fox Before my father's passing No one had ever interrupted a second Fox burial So when Patsy walked in there and took his body We didn't know what to do We just sat there and Shock I remember I had my brother Bill next to me and my relative Henrietta. She was on my right and Suddenly out of nowhere this white guy burst in Henrietta gasp Bill grabbed my hand We knew something was wrong The white guy He came in the wrong door The door he came through That was the door for death Only the dead come in and out of that door William Schwab, Steve Ward and court reporter exit January 2011 Hey bud remember when dad used to take us out back and play football. Yeah, just about every Saturday Yeah, even in the rain. He always passed to you. He passed to you too. Yeah, but he always passed to you first I was the youngest. Yeah, it's cause he always looked out for the baby He was the strongest man on the face of the earth But if he saw someone weaker than him He always stopped to help them. I sure am glad you brought this suit. I Want you to be named plaintive what like instead of you instead of me I don't know anything about Nagpra. You don't need to We have a lawyer a very good one But you're doing such a good job. I'm dying brother. Don't say that answer Your doctor said Must Maybe to someone has to bring dad home We'll bury him next to you Mayor enters office Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania 1986 you must be Jack Principal chief Thorpe Principal chief of the second Fox nation I'm here to collect my father. I don't think that's possible. Your father has been with us for 30 years now It's time for him to come home. I know you have strong feelings about this You have my dad we signed a contract He never signed anything his wife did and we lived up to our end of the bargain He wanted to be buried in Oklahoma. That's about as American as you can get he wanted to be buried with his family Thanks to us Americans know more about your dad than they ever did before They drive through our sleepy little town just to see his grave and there they can read about his achievements This isn't his home. It is now You're standing in Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania. We named it after him. He has his own zip code What this cook his name is what this cook What May 19th 1954 East Machunk, Pennsylvania Mayor and Patricia Thorpe sit in a local diner sipping on two cups of coffee How's your coffee? Fine We don't have much in this sleepy little town, but this diner it's something we're proud of Luke warm really tastes like it was brewed yesterday Oh, well, we can't have that Matt. It's okay. No, it's not fine. Yes Get our guest some coffee real coffee not your leftover pot of coffee. Yes, sir He's new. I'm sure he hates his job Well, I'm sure he loves it This diner is one of the best places in town a lot of guys wish they could get a job here at a diner Look around you. There's nothing else here The mines closed all of them five years ago and they employed our entire town without them Well, let's just say everyone around here is looking for a job. Matt's lucky. He found one Matt returns with the cup of coffee. He hands it to patricia patricia looks at Matt She sips he exits I have the contract here ready to sign How much are you gonna give me you want compensation? I'm giving you his body Yes, but we agree to change our name. We're renaming our town borough of jim thorpe My husband's famous. Yes. I'm aware of his medals So when you have your town named after him, you're gonna make money I think it's only fair that I get a piece of that money Just a piece Matt returns to the table with their breakfast dishes He places the dishes on the table. I ordered eggs Yes, I didn't say scrambled eggs. Oh if I wanted my eggs scrambled, I would have said so How would you like your eggs the way I ordered them? Okay Take these back to the kitchen. I'm sorry. I thought you said scrambled I didn't Well, we would be more than happy to compensate you for your husband's body But we need you to agree that this agreement is binding. I said I'd sign. Yes What do you want? You must agree that this contract is binding not just on you but on all of his heirs Heirs his children and their children and their children's children. We added one short paragraph Mayor hands patricia the contract to read The first party agrees for herself her heirs Administrators and executors that neither she nor any of them will remove or cause to be removed the body of her Said husband jim Thorpe from the confines of the boroughs of east mock chunk and mock chunk What do you think? Fine by me. Great When do I get my money? When do you need it now? Matt returns with a plate of eggs served sunny side up. He places the plate in fun of patricia. What's this? Your eggs. I said poached poached eggs not scrambled not sunny side up I'm so sorry. I can't eat this. Please get her some poached eggs. Yes, sir I'm really sorry about this. When do you want the body? Oh, well, maybe in a month or two. We'll need to build the mausoleum. I'd like to leave it with you today if that's okay You brought it with you. I'm done driving it around Okay, I'll call the morgue. I'm sure we can find some space The biggest mistake I made in my life was marrying an indian My mother warned me. She said patsy. Don't marry that man Once a red skin always a red skin even when he's famous, but I was stupid I thought it would be glamorous. I thought we eat oysters and drink wine and watch the sunset on the beach But I never got to enjoy any of that. No That son of a bitch never made me a dime I'd tell him your famous gym people love you. You have fans millions of them. You've won gold medals for christ's sake Go put your face on a billboard tell some soap or Cars or beer we could have been millionaires But did he care about making money? No That's not important to me patsy. He used to say Sure not important to him, but what about me? I deserve this He's not going to leave this world without giving something to me Matt returns carrying a plate of poached eggs. He sets the plate down in front of patricia Patricia looks at the eggs She looks at matt She smiles Mayor places the contract in front of her and hands her a pen patsy smiles Sack and fox songs fill the air along with the sound of drumming Jesus, I can't my mom who made me Jesus. I can't my mom who made me neon on hey Jesus, I can't my mom who made a second fox burial ceremony last four days The fourth day is important That's when the elders hold the name return ceremony We have two spirits We have our big spirit And we have our little spirit And when you pass An elder gives your little spirit a name A name that says to your little spirit It's okay You can go on now 1953 sack and fox nation jim thorpe's funeral Jack now 16 years old and bill now 25 sing a sack and fox prayer song Highway patrolman enters followed by patricia thorp. They interrupt the ceremony What are you doing? He's cold too cold. We're in the middle of a put him in the hearse now Yes, I think they're praying. I said put him in the damn hearstle. We can get the hell out of here I don't have time for this indian nonsense highway patrolman exits rolling the coffin in front of him patricia follows him out Is she going to bring him back? We didn't finish this ceremony We will someday We will finish his ceremony Return to the present day The cemetery where everything began sack and fox nation Bill enters He carries some prayer tobacco and goes in front of jack's grave Some prayer for prayer tobacco for you brother I guess you know by now we lost in the appeals court I don't know what went wrong I really thought for a minute there We were going to bring dad home I'm sorry jack You're here dad's still in pennsylvania This isn't the way things were supposed to be You weren't supposed to be here before dad We're going to appeal to the supreme court. I'll never give up. I promise Someday we'll bring dad back Someday We'll finish his ceremony The end