 Oh, good. Watch the treatment on the road. Hey. Oh, did you ever find any headphones yet? Hey, Nate. Just wanted to ask, do you have like a pretty good doctor for your hernia, right? You have a pretty decent doctor for your hernia, right? No, fuck it, bro. He doesn't know. More than likely, the doctors around here aren't too bad. He's attractive. Apparently, he's attractive. So I don't know if that's the one that's not exactly what I was asking. So he hasn't actually performed a lot of surgeries. He actually told me that. What was that? He hasn't performed a lot of surgeries. Oh, fantastic. So it doesn't mean he's bad. No, no. Inexperienced, maybe. He has said he's done like three hernia surgeries. OK. That's not a lot of experience on a really basic surgery. Yeah. At least it's a little really kind of basic surgery, then. So, Nate, how have his past three gone? Good, bad. Yeah, how did they go? Good, bad. I don't know. Did I talk to his patients? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know any of the patients. They're not allowed to give me that information. Well, Nate, you really did some very thorough work with this doctor. Yes. So I guess that's good. How are the holiday Huberty whatty? Malpractice shoots. Yeah. Now you're going to know what you're about. Yeah. Hey. When you accidentally leave your phone inside him? Yeah. And then you know it's wrong. How do you know how many times? Yeah. Wrong. Wrong. Who cares? No, don't do it, bud. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that looked wrong. I don't know whether or not it looked wrong. Nate, are you spending the night in the hospital or are you going home? No, he's going home about a couple hours after surgery. Come on, Nate. I'm going to walk. Yeah, yeah, as long as he's going to walk. And as long as he takes a do is to. I hit me. I hit the sugar. What more are you going to do? I'm going to take a laxative tonight. There you go. No, I'm not supposed to take a laxative. Look, I'm not selling shit all over the nurses. Well, you never know. Maybe it's a good idea. Nate might be. Wow. I bet you the people, if there's anybody watching the live stream right now, they're going, what the heck is going on? Oh, OK. That's probably a good thing. I don't know what the heck is going on. And I'm not even on this thing. I'm here live and I don't know what's going on, so. Yeah, right? And I run this thing. Well, we already knew that. I was made up of all these topics, like 10 minutes ago. Yeah, I know you did. I was here for it. I'm not more worried about getting my office clean, which actually, it's a lot better than it was. Yeah, no, I know. It's still not just where I want it to be. Yeah, I'll eat these goddamn Skittles. Why is the sugar I can be addicted to? Because it hates. Hey, we got a old friend back. That's what? Oh, the glitches. The glitches. I'm just going to let y'all know while y'all figure out whatever you're figuring out, because I can't tell what you're figuring out. I'm just going to be playing Horizon Zerodon, so. OK, yeah, we're almost ready to go. Like literally. Like a minute away. Oh, yeah, I suppose we probably should start the audio without my help. God, I clap loud. There you go. Good enough for it. Clap on, clap off. This is the quality that people pay for a live. Yeah, right? 10 minute or $10 backers is what you get. Thanks for paying. Why anybody would want to pay to see us? I have no clue. Edward is the only. Edward and Mark are like the only ones that ever tune in. 50% of our audience is already here. Hey. All right, now I can actually hear Mark. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm here. My headphones don't work. Hey. Can you hear me? Yeah. All right, let's get this thing going, huh? I got a lot more shit I got to finish tonight. Yeah, yeah. Last night of being alive. Stay alive, stay alive. All right. Hey, everyone, welcome to episode 70 of the Nintendo Prime podcast. It's a bit of a special one for a couple of reasons. One, it's our first podcast after E3. Two, we have a special guest this week, one of our patrons, one of our top supporters in general, regardless of what we do, Mr. Mark Greenberg. Hello to everyone he knows me and everyone he doesn't. A lot of our live stream folks will probably recognize him. And then, obviously Eric Morris always. Hell. And it's also special because this is the last podcast, as far as I'm aware for the next month, that we're going to be here, like in this setup, doing the green screen, all the jazz, because I technically, by the time most of you hear this, unless you are a $10 backer on Patreon and watching right now, this is the last time I will be recording. This is literally the last anything being recorded in our studio until I have recovered from my hernia surgeries, because I have to climb stairs to do this in the studio and I can't climb stairs. You should get a chairlift. Oh, yes. Can I clear that with my insurance? I don't know. I just thought of that now. It's for work purposes, please. It is. Yeah, so I honestly have no idea what's happening with the podcast episode after this, when we are weekly podcast, because I can't come up here. Chances are it'll be recorded in my kitchen or something, I don't know. We'll figure it out. Let's get into why you're here. So we have three big topics for you guys and then whatever we feel like doing for the final one, maybe some of us have things we want to talk about. I am warning you that we don't have a theme for this week. Now you guys know we've been doing themed podcasts before the Road to E3 stuff and then the Road to E3 stuff, obviously our E3 podcast. Because we know are not currently going to be doing our live prime news, our prime cast on Fridays until I'm recovered, all of our podcasts from here while I'm recovering is going to be news based. So a lot of our topics are gonna be stuff that are pulled out from the week of news because I like talking about news and I feel bad that I'm not doing prime news or the prime cast. So we're just gonna do it right here on the Nintendo Prime podcast. Oh boy. All right, so let's just get right into our very first topic and this one is a little funny, I don't know. I mean, is it funny, it's almost sad. It's kind of funny and sad. It's a little bit of both. So we record on Thursdays. So literally the day we're recording this, a new commercial is dropped for Minecraft on Switch and Xbox, yes, Switch and Xbox because now there is officially cross play between Xbox, Switch and technically PC. So now that that's a thing, they decided to drop a commercial. It's on the Xbox YouTube, it's also on Nintendo's official YouTube and social media stuff. So it's a joint venture commercial. And it pokes a little fun at PlayStation 4. Essentially it's going all fine, it's doing cuts back and forth between Xbox and Switch showing that people are playing together. But then at the end it does like this play together, come together like this little alternating half and half thing which is a direct rip off of PlayStation commercials for PlayStation 4. Where they do the greatness awaits thing. It's very, very much intentional. It's way too intentional to not be, to just be a coincidence. They're doing it on purpose because there's no cross play with PlayStation. I don't know if you guys know that. I'm sure most of you do, but PlayStation doesn't do cross play with anything but PC because it doesn't view PC as a competitor. But the funny thing is Minecraft is no longer being updated on PlayStation 4. So there's that as well. That's kind of Microsoft's response. Oh, you won't cross play because you need to protect the children? Well then we're just not gonna update our game anymore. Oops. I personally would pull the game from PlayStation, but I mean, it's a big audience maybe, you know, okay. Yeah. Money talks I guess more than anything. So what I wanna ask you guys is, is this a big deal, a little deal that Sony is still blocking cross play with Xbox and Switch? And a caveat to this is that a now former Sony employee has come out to say that he is well aware the only reason they're doing it is because of money. And they said this in a private meeting inside of Sony. That they are not allowed, like Sony's never publicly said that they're blocking cross play for monetary purposes. But the Sony employee's like, yeah. Yeah, that's exactly why they're doing it. It's the reason why this is an ex-Sony employee because he's like this. Probably. He did it after he quit or got fired. I don't know why he's an ex-employee. So big deal or a little deal that Sony's still blocking cross play? I mean, I think it's a little deal but coupled with the E3 and they're honestly in my opinion, horrible conference, it's a big deal. Cause I think Sony's getting cocky. They're getting too just overconfident. And I think that's gonna hurt them in the next console generation. I think if they came out with a great E3, this would be a lot less of a deal to me, at least. Yeah, I see what you're saying there because my whole feeling is like when they first, like we've known there wasn't gonna be cross play with us for a long time because again, my quote about protecting the children is actually from last year's E3. And there's been other games that have accidentally, quote unquote, accidentally turned on cross play features of PlayStation 4 and Xbox before Sony swooped in and got mad at them so they hadn't turned it off. So it's not even, it's not possible. Sony just doesn't want anyone on their platform to do it. So my thing is, I thought it was a bummer last year, but everyone's known why they're doing it, right? You're the market leader. You want everyone buying a PlayStation to play with PlayStation gamers because the biggest benefit isn't the PlayStation gamers, it's to Xbox and Switch gamers that can now play with their PlayStation 4 friends. But it also works vice versa, of course. Anyone who's playing on PlayStation has friends that play Xbox and Switch, but it's a money thing. Make everyone buy a PlayStation if you wanna play with PlayStation people. I get the reason, but they just can't come out and say that. I wish Sony would just come out and literally say, yeah, if you wanna play a PlayStation, then buy a PlayStation. I know that sounds scummy, but that's quite, that's literal, that makes sense. It's less scummy than what they're doing now. Yeah, protect the children or we have to work out the infrastructure or we have to, or what they're doing with Fortnite. Like everyone can import their data from any other console to Switch, but PlayStation. Yeah. Even if you had an Epic game account, all of your stuff wasn't actually tied to your Epic game account on PlayStation, it was tied to your stupid PlayStation account. So all this money you spent on PlayStation on Fortnite, you can't import any of that stuff you bought over to Switch on Fortnite. A completely free game. Why it's like that and why, like you can port over your PC stuff, you can port over your Xbox stuff, you can't port over PlayStation 4, so you have to start all over again on Switch. So like it hits, it's kinda, and that's like, that's not even cross play. Right. That's just allowing people to have the things they already paid for. Which is really weird that it's not tied to your Epic account. It's just, Sony didn't want it that way. Sony wanted that cut of the profits. So it's tied to their stuff. I don't think that's it. I think it's possible that the Epic accounts are tied to specific systems. So once that a system has used an Epic account, if I'm using that same account on a Switch, I could play with the PS4 because I'll already have PS4 friends on that account. And so technically that might be a way to cheat the system and so Sony doesn't wanna risk it and so I think that that one might be possible that it was just kind of part of just something that got stuck there because they didn't have another choice unless they wanted to allow cross play. But I completely agree with y'all that what they're doing. They do allow cross play with Fortnite, with PC. Yeah, I mean with Nintendo Switch and the Xbox. Yeah, like because the Epic account is universal. I have one, I made my account originally on PC. I've used it on my Xbox and I use it on Switch. It's all the same account. There's nothing tied to anything else. All the stuff I've ever earned, I can use on Xbox Switch or PC without any hassle. But I can't use any of it on PlayStation 4. And likewise, even though I can log in with my Epic account on PlayStation 4, none of my stuff from my Switch, Xbox or PC. Well, PC will, but Switch and Xbox won't transfer over to PlayStation 4 and vice versa PlayStation 4 won't transfer off. Like it's weird because it's technically tied to your Epic account. But if the platform you bought it on determines if it can be shared. Right. So if you bought the content on your PlayStation 4, you can't bring that content over. It's really, and I understand why it works that way because anytime you spend money on Switch or on the digital stuff or on Xbox or on PlayStation, a 30% cut of everything you bought goes to the platform holder. So technically, there is a closer relationship. On PC, that's not the case. But on Switch, Xbox, and PlayStation, 30% of anything you ever buy digitally goes straight to the platform holder. That's how Nintendo makes money off Fortnite. They don't make money off offering it as a free download. They make it off people buying microtransactions in the game. So Sony just doesn't want to share any data at all. Even if it's data that isn't for a game they actually own and control. Yeah, I just bought a PS4 for the exclusives. Spider-Man. Yes, Spider-Man specifically. I love Marvel, but not really where I'm going. Where I'm going is when I look at that, I'm never going to play by any game that I can buy on another system on that system because I also have an Xbox because of the cross-platform thing. And I think that it's anti-consumer. And I think that even for me, it's hurting them because I'm buying less games on their system and more games on the Xbox, even though I honestly prefer their controller layout and a lot of stuff they do. I don't like the non-cross-platform. And I think that a lot of gamers agree with me. And I think there's a lot of Sony fanboys out there. But I think that when it comes to the next console generation, if the Xbox can keep some good exclusives, I think they're just going to pass them just because Sony's being too cocky. And it's kind of the same thing that happened with the Xbox 360 and the PS3. Xbox got too cocky and PS4 just shot up. And I think that it's going to flip-flop. You got a good point there, though, that that is something that could eventually hurt Sony, I think, is if they don't evolve cross-play with certain games, guess what? People are just going to start buying other consoles to play cross-play. And who cares? Well, I mean, you got your exclusives, but eventually they're just going to stop selling the ones that you can buy on other platforms to play with other people. It's a case of, like Mark brought up earlier how he feels like Sony had a really bad press conference at E3. And it's strange because every single game Sony showed was amazing. But the actual show itself was an hour of completely wasted time. And in that intermission, which was absolutely ridiculous, like 40-minute long intermission, where they didn't really show any games, if you listen to what was being said during the intermission, it was a bunch of Sean Layden and Sony execs basically talking about how great they are. For 40 minutes, you had to hear about how great PlayStation is. Nice. No humbleness to it, no talk about actual games. Just, we're amazing, we're the market theater, we're this, we're that, it's like. Yes, we already knew this. That's great. So you want a cookie? Like, we're here for the games, and you're not showing us games. So it was really weird, because every game they showed was amazing, but it's almost like they didn't have enough for a press conference and they knew it. So we needed to drag it out to try to make it feel like we, I don't know. I would have rapped. We had to get the crowd out of the castle at some point. Well, I'd rather see them do what Nintendo used to do. I'm gonna throw up a bunch of pie charts and slides about how great they are. Because Nintendo used to be like, oh, look at our year-to-year growth in this, or we sold X amount of this. It basically felt like a mini-investors meeting, but at least there, well, at least you're giving us something to look at instead of being like, yeah, we're the best. Like, because you said so, okay? Cool? Can we see a game now? Yeah, wait, I think we should put up a pie chart here that says that. Oh, we're almost done with intermission. Hold on, hold on, I hear we're going any second now. Oh, okay, we gotta wait another 10 minutes. Wait, I think we should put up a pie chart here that says we're the best podcast around. We're the best that ever was. It's, between that press conference, between Sony's attitude across play, but just in general, this feels a lot like the end of the PlayStation 2 era. And it, I don't really, as a Nintendo guy, I'm not necessarily caring whether Sony's successful with the PlayStation 5 or not. Outside of the fact that I want a healthy market. So I don't want Nintendo to be alone. I like, a lot of people be like, oh, Nintendo would be the only system. Like, no, I don't want that. I don't want Xbox to be the only system. I like a healthy market with three systems in it, which is, we were actually in the midst of the longest there's ever been three systems surviving in the market. Because usually it doesn't happen. Someone always gets pushed out. But instead, Xbox has still moved almost 40 million units. PlayStation's up at 70, Switch is at 20. Like we have three systems that are making money and doing okay on the marketplace at the same time. And we know we're on the horizon of PlayStation 5 and Xbox 2 or 720 or whatever they decide. But maybe they just call it Xbox. I don't know. I don't know what Microsoft's doing anymore. Xbox triple X. But whatever it is, there's gonna be new systems coming within the next two to three years. And it's very interesting looking at what Sony's doing now, because this is the kind of thing that just gives Xbox and like Nintendo all the edge in marketing. Because Xbox got full of themselves at the end of the 360 era. So when they announced the X, they thought they were, or the Xbox one, they're like, we not only are we gonna call it one because that makes no sense. We are going to call it that because it's an all in one multimedia center. They got so full of themselves, they thought they could just own the entire living room. Which- Sure. The idea behind it, fantastic. But not for the price point. Here's the problem, you can just buy a Roku that does all of the stuff that people want on multimedia thing to do for like 50 bucks. Yeah. If you're gonna buy a $500 system, you need to sell it on the premises of the games machine because that's why you're spending $500. You're not spending $500 to watch Netflix. So like, it was a really weird, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, we have cable pass-through. Yeah, it's called an HDMI slot in the back of my TV. Why not? I can't hit one button on my controller. I have to spend $500 because what? They were so cocky and full of themselves that literally, I remember Sony Z3 was nothing but trolling. Here's how you share games with friends and it was just a guy handing another person the game. And I'm just like, oh, the other system, yeah, yeah, we have PlayStation Move. Oh, by the way, it's not bundled in and our system only costs $400 and it's more powerful than Xbox. And it's like- Yeah, that was the time when Microsoft decided to take a crap on itself and not allow- Microsoft set themselves up, Sony took complete advantage. And yeah, Sony was getting cocky, but Sony knew it. Sony knew they won. They knew before their system even hit the market that there was the Xbox and stand chance. But Nate, that's kind of my thing with the next couple of generations, I think that Xbox, at least right now to me, I feel like I like Phil Spencer and I think he kind of knows where to take it. At least I think he kind of has figured it out after that. And I mean, Sony was looking great and now they're kind of spiraling downhill. But then the other thing that I want to touch on is Sony family is who say, who talked about how this doesn't matter, it's we're Sony, we're the greatest. I think that there's two ways that can be a large group of people and that can be a smaller group, but a louder crowd. And I kind of think it's that because even when I look up on Sony channels, a lot of Sony YouTubers were upset with E3, a lot of them weren't, a lot of them were like, it was great, but like a lot of them were like, the presentation was horrible. And I saw a lot in the comments, like there were a ton of people, loud people who were like, stop this and we're better and all this. But I think there are a lot of realistic gamers who joined Sony and have been going, riding Sony for the past like five years on the PS4, especially with exclusives, but I just feel like Xbox could very easily win those people over with some good games. And so I kind of think it all goes back to the games. And it does. I mean, yeah, the thing is, is this coincided with the fact that Microsoft, at least in my opinion, had a very impressive conference. Yes, a lot of the games that show for third parties, that that's fine. But in the midst of the conference, they said, yeah, we know that we have, all we have is a bunch of third party games to show you. That's why we bought this studio, this studio and this studio and this studio and they're all making games now exclusively for Xbox, which isn't gonna fix Xbox One. No. But it's gonna fix Xbox Two or whatever's next. They're basically saying we have doubled our teams, we're gonna have way the hell more exclusives next time around and these are all studios you guys know and love. So to me, it's not only that they have a nicely paced conference, they had a nice conference that really cared, seemed like it cared about gamers anyways. And then obviously Phil Spencer, since he took over as head of Xbox and he's also now a higher up executive as well, which is why the Xbox division suddenly has a lot more money to spend, such as buying studios, that it's very interesting to see that, I think Xbox after everything that happened at the beginning of Xbox One ate a lot of humble pie and said, look, we gotta get Phil Spencer to lead the way, he's a gamer, he knows what's going on. And then Phil Spencer has done nothing but try his darndest to turn the reputation of it around, he unbundled connect, he tried to push things like, I know it's controversial for some people but Xbox Game Pass is a hell of a deal for gamers. And it's gonna be a hell of a deal on Xbox too if they have five new development studios that are making exclusive games. That's even more content for value you're gonna get for just $10 a month. So I know some people are against that old digital future thing that Xbox needs to be going towards, but it's hard to argue that yeah, they're going towards it, but they're giving you a hell of a value for doing it. And if you do it, it also works on PC. So you can actually get it on both systems for just $10, that's really, really cool. And on top of that, PlayStation just getting full of themselves. Microsoft seems to be partying up with Nintendo. I would not be surprised if Minecraft isn't the only Microsoft game we ever see on a Nintendo Switch. I would not be surprised to see them try to get another, another multi-platform game like that that they just say, Sony, you're not gonna have it, we're gonna put it on Switch. Yeah, and that's just the way it's gonna be. Because Switch doesn't really directly compete, right? Like Switch is a handheld. I mean, I know Nintendo calls it a home console, portable home console, but fine, it's a portable home console and Xbox isn't. So there you go. They don't really, really technically compete in a traditional sense. And Nintendo doesn't, it has nothing but nice to say about Microsoft, Microsoft vice versa, whereas Sony's just at every corner, they could talk about their competition, it's basically like, yeah, forget them. It's like they don't exist, they don't matter to us, we're number one. And it's like, yeah, you've been, yeah, you've done, you were number one before too and you blew it. Another thing like is one of the games that I've seen across, I don't know if y'all have seen it, it was at the end of the Microsoft conference and I know y'all were, I think, on a plane or something, but I've seen it on Sony things, PC things, PS4 thing, YouTube channels, not things, but what I, and it's Cyberpunk 7, 2077. 2077, yep. Yeah, I think that game looks, like that game looks stunning, it looks incredible. And I think that if Xbox keeps that at their conference and they keep that, and they even maybe, even have better optimization from the Xbox one than they do for the PS4, if they wanna pay for that, I don't really, or Xbox two. Yeah, I think Cyberpunk 2077 is next gen. Yeah. That'll look way too good for the current gen. For sure, but I just think that the way that that game could push people would be huge, even if it's not an exclusive, even if it just has a little DLC on that Xbox. I can guarantee that. It'll be an exclusive marketing deal. Something I've been arguing that Nintendo needs a dabble and if they want Western third party support is you need to establish exclusive marketing deal with AAA publishers, which was funny when I said that a lot of people were like, no, they shouldn't do that. I'm like, then they're not gonna get Western AAA third party support. Yeah. Sony's doing it, Microsoft's doing it. Nintendo doesn't wanna play the game. Yeah. You gotta play the game if you want to get those developers back. But why do people care if Nintendo gets on the marketing thing? Yeah, I don't know why they care either. It's not gonna affect them. Nintendo's a multi-billion dollar company. I understand the idea is, oh, they shouldn't give money to other multi-billion dollars. It's not about giving them money. It's about, imagine if Nintendo had approached, you know, CD Projekt Red said, we're gonna offer you more money than Microsoft for exclusive marketing rights for Cyberpunk 2077. Now, only would it be a big boon for Nintendo. That would mean Cyberpunk 2077's coming to Nintendo. So it's not like it wouldn't also come to Xbox and PlayStation 4 and look better on those platforms. What it would mean, Nintendo's also getting it. It gets you out ahead of the competition and it's just to show it off. If they knocked on Activision Store and said, hey, look, we're gonna offer you a bigger deal for the marketing thing than Sony's offering right now. Because guess what, folks? Nintendo has more money than Sony. I'm not trying to diss Sony here. Sony's money is more diversified, but Nintendo is actually more money in the bank and for a long time this year had a higher stock valuation than Sony. But Nate, the thing is that I think that we're all kind of, I guess, forgetting is Dark Souls 3 and they had the marketing, or Dark Souls remastered, not Dark Souls 3, sorry, but they had the marketing, they had that and it gets delayed and that kills it. So I think that for them to do that again, I think they need to have certain things in place, like same day release or- Oh, sure, sure. It's not something they can do with anything now is what I'm gonna get in there. It's possible they have it with Doom because Panic Button has a big AAA Switch port announcement that's supposed to be happening next month. And Panic Button, of course, is the one who ported Doom and ported Wolfenstein. Wolfenstein's done now, it's coming out. What's the next game gonna be? Well, there's another Doom game being made that's only been kind of sort of announced as it exists, but they didn't talk about it at E3. Notice how Bethesda did not mention it at E3. So I'm wondering if it's, yeah, it didn't get mentioned because it's gonna be day and date on Switch and Nintendo bought marketing rights. So now they're gonna advertise it. I think that's actually, especially when they say, if that is what Panic Button announces, if that's what Panic Button announces, there was zero marketing for this game until then. So obviously Nintendo bought marketing for it. But we'll see, obviously I'm guessing because we don't actually know what the game is. It could probably know it's Fallout 76. We have no idea what Panic Button's doing. Right. But considering that they've only been porting Bethesda games, I assume it's another Bethesda game. And considering that the new Doom game was talked about by a developer to be still be made on the ID Tech 6 engine, which is exactly the engine that the last Doom game and Wolfenstein 2 was built on, obviously Switch can run the next Doom game. But yeah, it's, I don't know. The thing is, is I kinda smile and I smirk over here a little bit over Sony, Ian Sony again, like they were before, like back in PlayStation 2, but it's still one of those, I don't really want this to be a thing. I want fans of all platforms to be happy. I don't care what platform you guys play on. Obviously we're a Nintendo base, but I don't care if you play on Xbox, PC, PlayStation, heck, I don't care if you're buying an Atari box, like none of that matters to me. No matter what you play on, you're happy. And the thing is, is PlayStation fans don't seem to be happy with the lack of cross play. People who aren't PlayStation fans aren't happy with the lack of cross play. No one's happy about it, but Sony. And that to me lets you know you're disconnecting with your fans. Your fans aren't happy with you. The people who aren't fans of you aren't happy with you because of it. Why are you doing this decision that's clearly just about money but you're denying at every turn that it's about money? Well, I mean, and that's the thing. The fans are gonna have to start speaking with their money. Well, and that's what's gonna happen. I think the next Xbox, assuming that whenever they announce it and if they announce a whole bunch of exclusive games coming forward in that first year, I think it's gonna capture audiences. And I have a feeling that what Microsoft did with X is exactly what's gonna happen with the next Xbox where not only is it gonna have a bunch of exclusive games in the first year or two, it's gonna be the most powerful system on the market and it's probably gonna match the price of the PlayStation 5. I think, I think, Xbox, I think Phil Spencer's been like, look, when we entered the console space, we broke in with our online system, with Halo, and having the most powerful system on the market. We need to keep having the most powerful system on the market. It might mean we can't get back up to Xbox 360 sales, you know, where we're at 80 million, but if we can get the, if we can just coast at 60 million, and we have 60 million Xbox Live accounts and half of those accounts are also game pass accounts. Like all of that's gonna make up for any revenue we would lose in 20 million in sales, giving that up to PlayStation or Nintendo or something. I think that's the strategy, and I think it's brilliant because I think that, what Nintendo's doing I think is more future proof because people want gaming anywhere. And right now phones, as amazing as phone gaming can get, it's still not perfectly ideal for every type of game out there. Nintendo's offering a solution that's like that and I hope they continue to invest in the Switch Lite concept for the next decade or so until they come up with something better, that's the future. And I think Nintendo's kinda got that market cornered and Microsoft's gonna concede that market. They're like, we're not gonna come after people who want gaming everywhere. We're still gonna go after for under TV. And if we're gonna go after under TV, we need to do it in a way that no one else can. We have money, we're a PC company, we're giving you the most powerful damn box you can have under your TV. I wouldn't be surprised if they come out, they come out and this next system isn't just 4K, isn't just native 4K. They start out in 120 FPS. Dang. And they just say, we went balls to the wall. This system's $500, but it rivals mid-grade gaming PCs, period, end of the story done. We're not messing around. That vapor chamber cooling we did with Xbox One, now it's the whole system. Yeah. Like, they're gonna go balls to the wall because they have to. They got no reason not to at this point, nothing to lose, they got more money than any of the three companies to mess around with. And that's the thing too, is that, I can kind of see them with a part, kind of quote unquote, in a way, wink, wink, nudge, nudge partnership with Nintendo. Yeah. You know, we'll stay out of your market, you stay out of our market, we'll kind of play back and forth the advertise for each other a little bit here and there. Yeah. We'll give you your people, we'll give ours. And obviously my hope is, hey, Nintendo, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, be like, hey, Microsoft, here's the deal. We'll throw Banjo-Kazooie as a Smash Bros DLC character, but you need to get us in with EA and then Activision a little bit. Open that door for us and get us in the door so they'll listen to us. Cause I think Nintendo right now, if they called EA, EA might not even pick up the phone. Yeah, right. That's how little EA cares about Nintendo. I'm sure they'd pick up the phone, but they would just be like down in a beer at the bar where they pretend they're listening. They'd pick up the phone and then they'd send it right back down. They'd really put you on speaker phone while I'm taking a piss. Yeah, right. Yeah, it just, that relationship is not good right now. No. Some of you might not care, cause you don't like EA and that's fine, but there's so many EA games that like, the fact that Madden's come into PC after a decade of not coming to PC, but will not come out on Switch. It's like, Switch clearly has a market for sports games. We have NBA 2K19 coming back now. We have FIFA. They weren't even going to do a FIFA 19, but FIFA 18 sold so well they're doing that. Like there's obviously, Mario Tennis Aces is out now. You know, when you guys shoot this pocket, like there's obviously a market for sports games on here. Heck, RBI baseball 2018 just came out. I know it was late, but it came out like. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I'm not sure how much we're going to get a VA at all. And I think that probably partly has to do with an unprecedented partnership for the Wii U. Oh, that Wii U. I don't know what the hell happened there. I think that that lost a lot of trust in EA because they were like, this Wii is not selling, screw it. Cause they have money, but not as much. And I think that right now for EA to, and I think that EA needs to get the goodwill of gamers. And I think that they're almost trying to stay really, this is honestly what I think is going to harm us the most is they're trying to stay safe. They don't want to spend money where they, where it might not pay off. And, and they want the will of gamers back, the goodwill of gamers back. And what I guess the problem is, is if they go to switch and they screw it up, even if gamers are like, yes, Madden on switch. And they screw up Madden on switch. It's like. It's like Wii U all over again. Trust. But at the, but at the same point in time, it's, it's not that hard of a concept. It's you bring Madden to switch, but you don't make it an old version of Madden. You keep it as the current version or something pretty damn close to the current version, not what they did before. Yeah, what they did on Wii U is terrible. Like the unprecedented partnership was dead before the Wii U even launched. And you could tell by the effort put into Madden because there was no reason Madden couldn't have been the current gen version. The Wii U was just as powerful as Xbox 360 PlayStation 3. There was literally no reason it could not be the current gen version. But it's because EA didn't give a crap. So they just ported the prior year's version and slapped a new title on it. And like that was such a, like for me as a Madden fan, I bought it or I didn't even buy it because I knew about it, but then Yulia bought it for me because she knows how much I like Madden so she bought the digital copy of course that I can't resell. And I was, and she, cause she didn't know. And I'm just like, and so then I'm like, fine, let me play it. Oh my God, this really is last year's version of Madden. And that was a big year at that time because that was the year they switched to the physics engine. So it was no longer canned animations. And here I am playing the canned animations version. Well, all the other consoles have a better version but they're not actually necessarily more powerful systems. So there's no, there's no Xbox 360 PlayStation 3 to Wii excuse here. This is, no, this is just like your systems but we're not gonna give it to you. And to be fair, there's two games EA gave us out of that whole fiasco that ended up being okay. One of them ended up being actually pretty good. The Need for Speed port that came eight months too late. That was the best game EA brought over. Ran perfectly well, was perfectly optimized. Yeah, they had to cut out two drivers in online mode but that's because of awesome CPU limitations but they did the best they could. That was fine. And then they also, the Mass Effect 3 port wasn't the greatest port job in the world but it was still the full game and it functioned and you could play it start to finish. So that's it. Every other game they brought over in that first year was garbage and it's because EA stopped, like EA at some point after the unprecedented partnership was announced was like yeah, we're done. The like, I almost wondered if Nintendo, I don't know what happened but I think Nintendo hoodwinked them. Because Nintendo was hoodwinking people with Wii U the year it was announced. Because they announced it with that unprecedented partnership. They announced it saying this is Wii for you. This is a hardcore gaming system. And then a year later at E3 they ended with Nintendo Land. Like they were hoodwinking everyone. Yeah, Nintendo was over promising under delivering I think from day one with Wii U. Not just consumers, they were doing it to third party companies. So like EA was probably, like Nintendo was telling them probably that this was gonna be a true next generation system and here it was just another 360. When the Xbox One and the PlayStation 4 were right around the corner. Like of course EA wasn't interested in that. Why do we want another Xbox 360? Right. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just like a markup where all fans are happy and I feel like for a little bit here now especially after this E3 we could have had like Sony fans are still gonna be happy with PlayStation for now even with the cockiness because there's good games coming. And that's the thing that's gonna keep PlayStation 5 still selling okay is that they're gonna have good exclusives because Sony has good exclusive games. Like they just do. You know MLB the show, I wish that was something we can get on Xbox, PC or Switch. Like I wish we had a baseball game that was that good. Let's talk with RBI. RBI is okay for what it is, especially since it's only $30. But it's not like, I wish it was that $30 baseball game that was trying to pull off the NFL 2K where it's like we're charging 20 bucks versus 60 but creating a product we feel like is better. RBI baseball, it has been getting better to their credit but I mean it's just, there's not a true competitor. Definitely. You know they got Death Stranding that's going on exclusive to the PlayStation. No one else is ever gonna get that game. Yeah. I mean one, Kojima is in Sony's pockets. Like that's just, he's been tied so close to Sony for years even when he's at Konami it's not a surprise. But I don't know. I think we gotta move on to the next topic. This is, we could talk about this all day. I mean, guys let us know what you think down in the comments and all. Like there's so much crazy stuff surrounding this cross play stuff. Sony, like why Nintendo can't get like certain games. It's just, I think to sum it up it's not a big deal, not a little, it's just dumb. It's just dumb. It's not good for anyone. No. No one wins. And also, no one wins. What we gotta remember is there's a ton of gamers from all systems, even PC, everywhere that's calling for EA's heads. The only good thing that I've seen from EA is a Star Wars game that's not that we don't even, that all we know is the name of and part of the story. And it's a small hint. And Madden on PC, other than that, I'm not. The people who win hands on, who the people who actually play the Anthem demo, like the media that did, like not the can demo at EA play like they actually played the game, all of them have nothing but glowing. Yeah, it looks amazing. Whether or not it's gonna take off, I don't know. The Anthem as well. But I think that there's a lot of gamers who were calling for EA's heads. And I think that EA, whether I think that this is kind of also another thing that could be talked about in the comments is how is EA going to get back to the gamer's trust? Because it's great, you don't have loot boxes, but you never should have been the first place. Oh, they still have loot boxes. Yeah. I mean, I think they still do, but like, I mean, in the, in Anthem, but like, you're not gaining back a lot of people's trust. Now, I just, where's EA gonna go? How are they gonna get back to being one of the leading places? Because right now, a lot of people don't like them. I mean, I don't think EA's ever cared about being liked. Yeah, I know. They've been voted, like, worst company in America, like 17 times over the last 20 years, and yet they're still the most profitable video in company in the world. Like, they don't give a crap as long as they're making money. I think what got their attention and what they're trying to do, they're not trying to appease gamers right now with all these announcements and all the loot boxes. Like, it sounds nice. What they're trying to do is appease investors who got mad at them that Disney got pissed at them over Battlefront, because they didn't give a crap that fans were complaining. Notice how they didn't do anything about loot boxes when fans complained. After Disney emailed them, that's when they changed. They don't give a crap about what fans think, because we keep buying their games. Battlefront 2 is still gonna, is still on pace to sell over 10 million copies. Like, the games are still selling. Here's the problem. As much as people hate on EA, they make good games. They do. Sadly, they do. Like, you could hate the microtransactions, hate the DLC, hate the loot boxes, but the core game is still pretty damn good. Yeah. Like, Battlefront 2's core gameplay is fun. I went hands-on with the Battlefront 2 DLC, the Ponsolo, it was good. It was good. It was good. Like, Anthem, phenomenal. Madden, really damn good if you like NFL. Yeah. But there's still microtransactions, and DLC, like, it doesn't affect me in Madden, because I just don't play those gameplay modes that I never really have, so it doesn't matter to me. Now, when they take franchise mode and put loot boxes in there, I'm gonna be pissed, but it's, I don't know. That's the, EA, I don't think actually cares about gamers, they care about gamers' money, and as much as we might hear people bitch about EA, there's also 50,000 million more people that just don't care, and they keep buying the games anyways. Yep. Yeah. All their goodwill was just to make investors happy, and that's fine. It's cool. I still like EA. There's a new Dragon Age game in development. I can't wait to play it. Like, that's the thing. Like, I can crap on EA, but I still like Madden, and I still like Dragon Age. I think Battlefront 2 is actually kind of good. I'd own it if it was on Switch. So it's just, at this point, all I really care is that somehow the relationship between EA and Nintendo can get mended, so I can have my EA games on Switch. I don't think it's gonna happen, and I know EA is massively in bed with Xbox because of the EA Access thing, but we'll see. It is what it is. Our next topic, there's three games that by the time you hear our next podcast, we'll be out. By the time you hear this one, one will be out, but by our second podcast, two more will be coming. So essentially, these are the games that are coming out end of June. Mario Tennis Aces already out, or will be out as of the time of recording this in a couple hours. Crash and St. Trilogy and Wolfenstein 2. Those are the three big games landed on Switch before the end of this month. Which of these three games are you guys most excited for and why? For me, it's Aces. I've had the hands-on experience. It's, I mean, I watched you play Wolfenstein, not that there's anything wrong with it. It looked just fantastic, but Aces for me is... A good Mario Tennis game. Yeah. I mean, it's got a 78, I think, on Medicare right now for reviews, which for a Mario Tennis game is damn high. Yeah, right? Like, that's good for a Mario Tennis game. And it's funny, some of the ones I saw that were given it like a seven or a six are like, yeah, it's a really, really good game, but damn, it's so difficult. I'm like, but that's what I want! Bad thing. That's what, I want skill to matter in Mario Tennis again. Oh man, Mariko, what about for you? I mean, I'm on a Nintendo channel. I love Nintendo, and I wanna say Mario Tennis Aces, but I have to go with Wolfenstein 2 just because Mario Tennis Aces, I've played it. I think the game plays incredible. I think I'd love to be my characters. The challenge is the solo mode. Like, I'm so hyped for getting that tomorrow. It's gonna be incredible. But the reason that I say Wolfenstein 2 was because I think I've been so hyped for it and waiting for it for so long. And I've been staying away from the story online and I feel like I've just had a longer amount of time to get hyped for that. And I can't believe that's almost here, the fact that I'm about to be playing Wolfenstein 2, a game that just launched on Xbox One and PS4 in November and that has, I played the first Wolfenstein, that has one of the best campaign stories, story-wise I've ever played. And I don't know much about the Wolfenstein 2 campaign because I'm trying to stay away from it, but- I could tell you this, the Wolfenstein 2 game itself is rated very high. Yeah, the game is rated high. I've seen that, but like that's not even as great as I'm sure the game is. The story itself in Wolfenstein games and Bethesda games is so good. I'm just really hyped to be able to play that on a Nintendo Switch on the go. Like I'm about to go to the beach. I will be able to play a shooter game with a great story sitting on the beach looking at the sunset. I just think that's incredible. Yeah, I get you. Yeah, and I win the hands on with Wolfenstein 2. I should have an impression video for it before it launches. That's my plan anyways. So it's supposed to come out this weekend, but I technically haven't finished it yet and with my surgery I will see what happens. But what I can say is when I played of it, which had no story spoilers, so I can't even spoil the story for you if I wanted to. Yeah, great. Wait, you pulled a lever. I pulled a lever. It was spoiled in the morning. You pulled a lever. I like spiked a guy in the neck. Uh-oh. It plays phenomenally well. I played the first Wolfenstein as well. I've actually played like 10 different Wolfenstein games because technically Wolfenstein 1 is a reboot of the whole franchise. But yeah, the first one was great. The second one felt great. Oh god, playing it in Handel on Switch just felt so amazing. You know, when I look at these three games, because like obviously the one I've most has kind of already done it's aces. It's been like my most hyped game of the year, period. But I gotta give a shout out to the Crash and St. Trilogy for really one reason and one reason only. We're getting this game because of One Developer. Nice. So here's the story. For those who don't know behind this game, it's stupid. Crash and St. Trilogy was not gonna come to Switch. It was never gonna come to Switch. They weren't even thinking about bringing it to Switch. One Developer, while it was being made for PlayStation 4, was in its final stages, about to go gold, really loved Switch. He played Switch all the time. And he's like, I wonder if this can run on Switch. So he took the code home with him, which you're not supposed to do, in his free time over a weekend and got the first level running. Brought it back on Monday, showed it to his superiors and they're like, oh, so it can run on Switch. Okay, let's port it. It's so ridiculous that that's how this game got on Switch. And that's why I have to be like, I gotta throw out of the crash. I'm not even gonna buy the game. I'm not, because I'm principle of the fact that this isn't supposed to be on Switch and that Activision and all these companies that are behind it just don't give a crap. Yeah. Like, we were just talking in the last time about how EA doesn't care about Switch. Activision doesn't either. Nobody cares about Switch. The only problem with that is if you don't buy the game, there's no incentive for them to bring more games to the Switch. I don't care. Here's my thing. And I know it's a back burner type of afterthought of bringing to the Switch, but they did. But here's my thing though. Who at that company looked at Crash and Zane Trilogy and said that can't run on Switch? Like, why did they think it couldn't even run on Switch? Why were they surprised when this guy comes back? Yeah, here's the first level. Works just fine. Yeah, I don't know. That party, I don't know. Like, why did it take a rogue to develop? And that's the thing, like, this is what pisses me off about, this is like, I'm excited for it because I never played the original Crash games. So like, I'm really excited that this is on Switch and maybe I'll pick it up someday. But at the same time, I'm like, man, why? Why are we on the scrap heap where someone has to basically break the rules and use their free unpaid time to try to convince the company they work for to bring a game to a platform that can clearly run the game? Like, now I'm waiting for some rogue developer to do it with Spyro Reignited. Yeah, right? Yeah. Because I saw it, Spyro Reignited looks fantastic, it can run on Switch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Call of Duty, I'm sorry, it ran on Wii U, it can run on Switch. Yeah. They're not gonna do it, but it can run on Switch. Like, it's just, it's ridiculous to me that it takes this kind of effort to get a game on Switch from these companies. And I know, like, Wolfenstein 2, like, I'm still, I'm getting Wolfenstein 2, it's happening, period, if I have the money, I'm grabbing a day one. But my thing is, I'm even a little wary of Bethesda. Because, sure, we got Wolf 2, sure we got Doom, they use the same engine, might get the next Doom, might get the next Wolf if they use the same engine, great. We're not getting Rage 2, we're not getting Fall of 76, is Bethesda really even dedicated? Yeah. Or is it just because they knew the ID Tech 6 engine would run on Switch? And, I mean, your Bethesda thing, I think that's kind of worrisome, but I think that I wanna say on my thing, the reason I'm not buying Crash is, it's just not my type of game. I like some 2D games, I was never a fan of Crash, and so I'm not buying it. And I think that, I mean, and I think that's why I'm not buying it to show my supporters that it's not even like, oh, I'll try it, it's that I'm never gonna play it. Because I'm not the biggest fan of Crash. Yeah, yeah, but the other thing that I wanted to say about these third parties is, I mean, I don't even care about these smaller games. I think Rage 2 I'd love to have, but it's kind of similar to Doom, and I don't really care. What I'm kind of looking for is, I really wanna see something like Fall of 76. I wanna see, even if it's just one game from the developer in like a year, I wanna see those bigger games, the Call of Duty, the Fallouts. I wanna see equal treatment. Yeah, here's the thing, like people tell me, oh, just wait for year three. Nobody else has to wait for year three. All right, exactly. PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Day One had all full third party support, and I know some people are gonna talk about, oh, Port Station. Yes, that had to do with exclusives. They ported PlayStation 3 exclusive games. I will throw one caveat at this. What? Nothing is like the Switch though. With the portability of it? Nothing's like the Switch, except for every mobile device on the planet. Not new technology. And some of these games that Switch doesn't have are on the Tegra X1 on Nvidia Shield. So it can run on the platform already. Okay. It's kind of ridiculous. If you actually go look at the games available on the Nvidia Shield using the exact same technology, and Switch doesn't have those games, it's ridiculous. It's literally down to the fact that it's Nintendo and they don't wanna make games for Nintendo. And I know some of you are gonna say, oh, technologically impossible. Nothing's technologically impossible. I'm sorry, I have witnessed a lot of these third party games that also happen to be on PC running on lower specs and worse everything than Switch is. Cause they can. It's not, nothing's impossible. They have to wanna do it and put in the effort. No, definitely. And it does take money, and you have to wonder about sales. And I get all that. But my thing is, a lot of you guys don't care. Some of you guys be happy. You have all the Nintendo exclusives, and now Nintendo seems to have most of all their teams just making Switch games. You know, you have really, really good indie support cause indie games do phenomenally well on the platform. So lots of the best indies in the world are coming to Switch. And we are getting some triple A third party games like NBA 2K19 coming out, probably the next Doom, probably the next Wolfenstein, or Starlink, Battle for Atlas. Yep. So we're getting some, we're getting a little bit. But my thing is, I'm tired of Nintendo platforms and I'm not taking all the blame off Nintendo. Nintendo scared third parties away. Long time ago. Forget about the Wii and being lower visuals. Head call of duty. So forget about that. Forget about Wii U and the tablet. Whatever. Nintendo scared third parties away with their policies back in the 90s. And never recovered from it. And my thing is, Nintendo doesn't have those policies anymore. They're trying to be inclusive. They're advertising third party games a little bit and they're Nintendo Directs anyways. I wish they would have gave Starlink a little more pub in their Nintendo Direct 3.3, but whatever. Guess Ubisoft was just where we were gonna get all the hype for that. But I'm of mind that as a Nintendo fan, and I play on multiple platforms, but as a Nintendo fan, can we stop waiting and begging for scraps off the heap and can they finally just say Nintendo is a major platform holder in the industry? Let's give them all the games like everyone else gets. Yeah. I'm tired of the excuses. I know things have to be dumbed down. Who cares? Things have to be dumbed down for Doom and Wolfenstein and I guarantee they're gonna sell just fine. We literally got a version of FIFA that's an old engine four year old game and it sold so well we're getting another one. Like we're clearly gonna buy the games. We don't care how dumbed down it is. Starlink is probably gonna sell best on Switch just cause Starfox is in it. Yeah. Where's that? Like, why can't we get Assassin's Creed? Oh, it's made on Anvil 2, I mean, I don't care what it's made on. And I know games take a while to develop for. These companies have had development kits for three years. We're well into development cycles for these games. They could easily be on Switch. Why aren't they? Cause they don't wanna bring them. They don't wanna put in the effort. They don't wanna invest the money. They don't think the audience is there. Which is weird. On a platform that caters to the type of audience they want adults more than any other platform cause adults don't have time to sit in front of a TV. Right. It's just ridiculous to me that we have to beg for scraps off the heat. I hate it. Oh, the passion. It makes me so, like, I'm buying Wolfenstein 2. It's fantastic. Yeah. I hope that the fact that I bought Doom and bought Wolfenstein 2 helps convince Bethesda. Are my buying of the game gonna convince them of anything? No, we're still not gonna get Rage 2. We're still not gonna get Fallout 76. And someone's gonna say, oh, Fallout 76 is an online game, so? So Switch doesn't have an online games? When is that a problem? Yeah. When did that become an issue? I don't know. Like, it's just, it's ridiculous to me. That's all I can say. I want to live for the day that basically third parties start treating them like they treated the SNES. We're bringing every game to your platform. Just cause it's also going to Genesis doesn't mean we're not gonna bring it to the SNES. Why can't we get back to that? We're in the midst of a platform that's probably gonna sell 100 million units and we still can't get their party support. Equal third party support. I mean, I'm not like a specialist in this, so no one go out there and say, Mark Greenberg said this, so this is totally gonna happen. Well, you did say this, whatever you're about to say. I did, but I'm just not saying it's like 100% gonna happen. What I would say is the two, like what I think is gonna happen is, in two ways, I think that one, we're just not gonna get equal treatment and we might get like two or three games a year. Or I think that we're gonna get a game like Call of Duty, which is just gonna be like, you know what, we'll give Switch a shot for something big like Call of Duty. It sells well and other third parties decide, okay, I think we're gonna come to this, but I think there has to be one game like an Elder Scrolls, which is gonna be way far away, so it's not gonna be that. Like a fallout like Call of Duty, like a battlefield that comes to the Switch and sells a ton and it's a huge game and it sells well and it's online. And I think that's what'll get people to come because those are some of the biggest games right now. Yeah, I don't, like here's the thing, the biggest game in the world is Fortnite and it's already a success. If that's not convincing people, then what? Right. But Fortnite is free. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if Fortnite's free. It's an online exclusive game, most popular game in the world. It's blowing up on Switch, which means there's players that wanna play those online games on Switch. Now, all this telling you is, look there's an audience that actually plays online on Switch. A huge, several millions on them. But it doesn't tell us how much money that audience is willing to spend because I just, at the end of the day, if I'm a developer and I'm looking at something, Fortnite, I would rather look at a Cold Duty or Battlefield, something like that over Fortnite because Fortnite's free and so I don't get actual buying stats. I just get people downloading it. Yeah, you know where they get those numbers from? The attached rate of Switch to games. The attached rate of Switch to games right now is 12 to one. 12 games for every one Switch. That is higher than PlayStation 4 and Xbox. They're there, we're buying games. We're literally buying games. Every game that is released on this platform that has been of triple A quality has performed well. There hasn't been one failure yet. So it's like, what more proof did I need? We're a year and a half in and we're buying the games. We're buying, I'm buying Wolf of Sin 2, you're buying Wolf of Sin 2. I'm sure probably 500,000 to a million other people are buying Wolf of Sin 2 as well. I mean, one of the biggest failures of this system was arms and arms wasn't even a failure. Arms wasn't a failure. They're still supporting it to this day and they said they're making their arms do. That's not a failure. Arms just didn't sell like Splatoon, but arms was, some people called it a failure. It's so low. Arms still sold million, two million units. Arms sold as well as the recent Street Fighter game and that was counting sales on all platforms. Fighting games don't have a huge audience. So people that looked at it as a failure don't understand fighting games. I think they just looked at the numbers. I mean, maybe they just looked at the peer numbers. MASH is not a normal fighting game. They looked at it as peer numbers instead of instead of... Oh, it's not as big as it's supposed to be. There's a lot more people that like shooters than like fighting games. It's not comparable. Yeah, but like even though it wasn't technically a failure. Did we lose them? I don't know. Did we lose Mark? Not 100% sure. Mark was about to go off too. He had a big rant coming. Well, we'll see if Mark comes back with us here. You want to bring up the next topic and we'll return to this and Mark reconnects here. Do we lose him? No? He doesn't mean he's actually there. Am I reconnected? Oh, there you go. Now he's back. What were you saying, Mark? Okay, so what I was saying was I just think that when we're going and we're seeing these games and the lowest of low games are selling a million, two million units. So when you're looking at an upside and a downside, I'm not asking you to bring this port and even have a 60 FPS option. I'm not asking it to be stay at 30 and not drop down to things like 25, 24s and above nothing in the teens, but around like the 25. Playable. Playable. Would be playable, yeah. And those games, because you're already developing the game, if you look at it and you say, okay, we're either going to break even or make money if we sell a million of these, then you should just automatically bring it. And that's a ton of games. I understand there are some games that are so advanced that might not be worth it and that's kind of a risk, but there are so many games that could come here and they'd have like a 99% chance of breaking even. And if you break even, nothing gains, nothing lost and you just tested it out. So what's the big deal? Why can't you just test it out and see what happens? Businesses are in the business to break even. Yeah, that's the thing. They want all the money. They don't, like, the reason we don't get EA games isn't because they don't think they can break even or make a little bit of money at such. They probably, heck, FIFA approved. They can make a decent chunk of money. They don't want a decent chunk. They want like 7,000% profit margins. Yeah, because that's what they get on the other platforms. There's no guarantee they'll get that on Switch. There's no guarantee they're going to have enough people that buy the game for it, let alone that enough of those people are going to buy the microtransactions. Yeah, like, I understand. It's ridiculous, by the way, because if you know you're going to make profits at all, you figure it should be worthwhile because making money is better than not making money. Like, you're leaving money. You're basically, and that's the thing, like EA and even like Bethesda with Rage 2 and stuff, you're basically looking at your investor and saying like, yeah, we know we would make some profits on Switch, but we're just going to leave that money on the table. Great. Like, the investors are going to be fine. Obviously, the investors usually have money and they're still getting nice dividends and EA is still a massively profitable company. So is Bethesda. So like, they're not going to question why companies aren't bringing certain games to Switch because they're still, as long as they get their money, that's all they care about. But, oh man, like, you're even talking about like, test the market. Stop testing the market. Yeah. Skyrim sold well, Doom sold well. How many more games need to sell well before you start realizing we're going to buy the damn games? At what point in time is it? They're bringing NBA 2K 19 day and date this year, physical version two. They screwed us last year by delaying the physical version a month and it still sold so well, they're bringing NBA 2K 19. At what point in time is it not testing the market and just pure laziness? It's not even, it's Nintendo soured relationships and so they just don't give a crap. They make enough money and the platforms are already on, they don't want to deal with Nintendo. Yeah. And that's why I said in one of my recent videos that Nintendo, unfortunately, has to go above and beyond if they're ever going to get their parties back in the fold, full gear. Like Square Enix, they're like, yeah, we're going to bring you a button, you know, like Project Autopad Traveler. We're going to do a bunch of games like that exclusively for Switch. That's great. Project Autopad Traveler is phenomenal. The new demo is phenomenal. Everything about that game is phenomenal. I'd still rather have Kingdom Hearts 3. I'd still rather have Final Fantasy XV and Final Fantasy XIV, which they might be doing. I'd still rather have Dragon Quest XI here. Enough of the excuses about how oh, we're waiting for an update of Unreal Engine 4 on Switch. Screw that. Yeah. You've had over a year. Stop waiting. Just get it done. Yeah. But they don't care. They're just waiting because it'll be cheaper if somebody else does the work for them. And that's why I said like Nintendo, Nintendo wants EA games to have the content EA and say we will pay to port over your engine to Switch. We will literally pay your developers to port over the engine. They offer that. We're going to start getting an every EA game on the song because all EA games are made with that engine. Right. They port over Frostbite. We suddenly get every game made on Frostbite. That's what will happen. Or if it's not, heck, Nintendo might have enough to go stuff further. They might have to be like, not only will we pay to port the engine, we will pay to start a team within your company. Their only job is to port games to Switch. Mm-hmm. Yeah, great. But that's the thing. Nintendo's not going to do that. They're going to feel like they don't need to do that. And, but that's the kind of thing. And Nintendo has to go, and that is beyond what everyone else is doing. Everyone else is just offering marketing deals. They're not hanging for these companies to make the games. They're just saying you can only, and all your marketing has to just like put Xbox at the front of the market. Like when we were at E3, we're the only ones that could talk about it. Like that's the way it was with Dark Souls, dude, Nintendo just did it with Dark Souls. Unfortunately, that backfired in their face. Should it have backfired in their face? I don't know. Why what, like my thing is, it must not have been that great of a marketing deal because if it was, every version would have been delayed for Switch. And you could say, oh, that pisses off all the gamers. It doesn't matter. Nintendo has the marketing deal. They're the ones paying for this game to be marketed. If that version's not ready, none of the version's gone. Right, that's just it. Treat Switch equally. Instead, you're like, no, we're going to bring out the other versions. Say, yeah, the Switch version, everyone who has played it says it works, says it's great, but we're delaying it anyways, and we're not telling you why. I mean, I almost want to see them kind of take the Phil Spencer out and find a gamer who at least be put on the board or even president and find a gamer who's going to lead you all to say, what do the gamers want and where can we take this? That'll rise above where we can take it as a company and bring it to the gamers and show the gamers that we want what they want and they want what we have. And that'll get us sales. And I think if they would do that, I think it'd go a long way, but I don't think that's Nintendo's business style. I think the other way it's happening is if this next generation, everyone flops with Nintendo, and I don't want that to happen. So, it's just a very frustrating time to live in because I'm not sure what else Nintendo can do besides literally throwing money around like crazy. And they have the money to do it, but they're not going to, they're a Japanese company, they just don't do that. Heck, even throwing Square Enix of money to be like, yeah, okay, enough of the excuses, here's the money you need to make it happen. It's just not going to happen. I mean, it's just what makes me so, it's just, it's, here's the thing guys, I game on multiple platforms. So I'm not even saying I can't play these games. You know, Mark just said he bought a PlayStation 4. We have access to these games. So we're not talking from the aspect of we can't play these games because it's not on the platform we own. We own platforms to play these games on. That's not the problem. The problem is that in general, at least me as a consumer, when I am investing in things, I like having all of my games as much on one platform as I can. And the reason I want that platform to be switched is because of that portability that nothing else offers me. And they're not giving it to us even though Nintendo hasn't, I mean, I'm not saying Nintendo's not perfect. They're not. We don't have achievements yet. I know a lot of companies go about achievements. We don't have a universal achievement system. They're getting into paid online accounts that don't seem to be offering us anything but some classic games. They don't really seem like it's offered any improvements over what we have now. That kind of sucks. I mean, in that case, then I got a question for both you and Eric. And that is, how would you feel if Nintendo was like screw a switch and they ditched it and they went and they tried to compete in the exact same markets, the PlayStation and Xbox? Wouldn't work. They'd be get destroyed. Microsoft definitely would stop supporting them with Minecraft because now they're dark competitors and Nintendo does not excel when they try to compete head-to-head as saw with GameCube. GameCube is more powerful than PlayStation 2, doesn't matter. Nintendo's gonna Nintendo. They're not gonna just do what everyone else is doing. They have stated that themselves, they've actually never really done what everyone else is doing. Like back when they competed with power, people forget, yeah, they competed with power and they were doing something that no one else was doing. N64 competing with power. N64 competed with power, but we were still using cartridges and they touted the faster load times where Sony was touting the higher data rates and the better sound quality. And then eventually the fact you could play music CDs. And then with GameCube, hey, we're more powerful, yeah, but it's really hard to compress data onto a mini disk so you actually hold less data than on PlayStation 2 so it's just easier to put games on PlayStation 2. Like Nintendo has always said that, yeah, we're competing with power, but what? We, you, same as a 360 in PlayStation 3, but we had to throw in a tablet. Like Nintendo can't help themselves. And even if, even if all Nintendo did in this next generation is be like, look, this is a PlayStation 5 with a Nintendo logo, which would make a lot of people happy because a lot of people that want Nintendo to go back to traditional consoles, they're still not gonna win. Cause Microsoft's gonna have the more powerful box. Sony's gonna have all the high quality, high infidelity exclusives that look really good on that kind of hardware. Nintendo's just throwing on another Mario, Zelda's, you know, Blade, Pokemon that doesn't look even remotely close to like it needs that kind of power. So Nintendo doesn't have the games to compete with a power game. And third parties are not gonna look at Nintendo and be like, oh look, so we have three consoles that do the same thing. Well, who's gonna be the odd man out in that race? Probably Nintendo, cause they don't have, they don't have the chops. Where does Nintendo accelerate? Why is Switch doing well? It's portable. Nintendo has never not made a high quality, high selling portable device. The 3DS is their worst selling handle of all time and it moved over 70 million. Like, Nintendo's, they got portable right. They know what they're doing with portable. And now they're making home console games portable. So it's kinda like, it doesn't matter, they can't make a traditional box. It just wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. It didn't work before, it's not gonna work now. It might make a few people happy and maybe we get a few more games ported. But I just don't think, I don't know if anything can ever be done. I think I have to resign myself to the fact and it's not just Switch. It's just Nintendo. It's never gonna get triple A third party support. Full, equal treatment, no matter what. I don't know what your thumb's up in before, but yeah. I mean, I don't think it's no matter what. I think it's money. Everything's money, welcome to business. It's just money and I think that if Nintendo can put enough money in over X amount of time, because it's not gonna all happen at once. It's just how the world works. They might be able to get it back, but it would probably be in the Switch too. And really what concerns me is you're talking about how Xbox might go 4K, 120 FPS. They're already 4K, so they're definitely going for it. Yeah, but like, they're already 4K and PS4, I'm sure they're gonna jump up to 4K and all this stuff. But at the end of the day, how on earth are you gonna compete with ports like that on something that can go portable? And I just think that that's what's kind of killing Nintendo is that things like Cyberpunk 2077 are gonna be huge, some of the biggest games. And Nintendo has zero chance of getting that port onto their system unless they can hit something that were like 1080, 60. No, they don't. Why does that game mean 1080p and 60 FPS? I mean, that's what I want. I'm not saying I don't want that, but why does it need it? What's wrong with 720 and 30? What's wrong with 640 or whatever, 580 that we played Doom at, that's fine. I don't think that there's something wrong with it. I just think at the end of the day that the developers of games like Cyberpunk, they are very proud of their games. And this is something you notice with chefs, with developers, with people who make stuff. They're always, a lot of them are very proud of what they do and they don't wanna make it diminish it. And I feel like they would not, a lot of companies like that would not be willing to put their game at 720p because it would make Cyberpunk 2077 look so much worse than it does. I don't think it would make it look worse at all. With the size of the screen. Because the size of the screen. Size of the screen with a pixel density would actually end up being almost equal. Like it's like when someone holds up a screen that's AMOLED 1080p with a phone and then you hold up an AMOLED 4K screen next to it and you play the same video in each one, you ain't gonna tell the difference. The pixels are too small. Like that's what's so great about like Doom. Like you'll have people complain, oh it drops down to sub HD. Tell me where it drops down. Because you can't tell. The pixel density is so small that at that size of a screen, it really doesn't matter that it's not 1080p. Like I want it to be 1080p. Don't get me wrong. I'm a tech guy. I will notice the difference. But the difference isn't something that I feel like developers are gonna look at it and be like, man this is the crappy looking version of the game. Now if you were to put the 1080p next to a 4K on the same size screen. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Like the Xbox One X and the Dock Switch, you're gonna notice the difference. Like that's just the way it is. But I think a lot of, and this is my thing too with the industry in general, not everything needs to be about visual fidelity. Right. Who cares about 4K? I love 4K. I love 60 plus FPS. I have a PC that does that. I have a 4K gaming TV out of my man game. Like I get it. It's phenomenal. It's great. But that's not why I play games. It's great to have it if it's possible but I don't really care if it's in 4K or not. I care that the game is good. You can give me all the FPS and all of the resolution in the world that doesn't make your game good. Now granted, Cyberpunk 2077 looks phenomenal but it doesn't just look phenomenal because it looks beautiful. It's phenomenal because it looks like a really damn fun game. And CD Projekt Red makes really damn fun games. So it's this counter-intuitive argument where as an artist, I understand where an artist who made all these assets doesn't want to see dumbed down versions of their assets. I get that. And I get that a lot of companies might treat gaming as an art. But it's also one of those things where gaming's about playing games. And if you can make a portal, if you go into CD Projekt Red and you're like, hey, Nintendo wouldn't be like, hey, look, we're gonna give you $3 million. We want you to attempt to get this game to run on Switch. Just attempt. Because it's only $3 million. That might not even cost full porting. I don't even know what it would take. But just say we're gonna call it an initial attempt to port the game over. Which $3 million Nintendo wipes their butt with that stuff. That's nothing. So they would go in and they do it. I guarantee you, if they can get the game to run, even at like 20 FPS, they'd have to do a lot more, a lot of optimization. They get to run at 20 FPS. They're gonna be impressed. They're gonna be impressed with themselves. They're gonna look at it on the screen and be like, that doesn't actually look that bad. If you could, and there's the thing, I get that there's technological limitations. Obviously. Ideally, there isn't. But there's going to be. There's always gonna be sacrifices made to make games portable. That's just the way it's gonna be. But the people that own the system don't seem to care about those sacrifices and we buy the games anyways. But Nate, the people that own the system aren't the people making it or designing it. And it feels like gaming is about 4K and how much stuff is sold. 4K, 4K, 4K, 4K, it's everywhere. 4K TVs, 4K, Xbox One X. A lot of people consider it better than the PS4 Pro because it's better graphics. Even though the exclusives are nowhere near as good. Let's be honest. Sure. At the end of the day, there's this huge deal made out of 4K. 4K is just a marketing term. It's to get people to buy things. Exactly. But and 1080p would be used if they could get cyberpunk like that. I don't personally, like I haven't, I've been a Nintendo fan for the past 10 years. I haven't like followed. And then I played some Game Boy, but like I wasn't like the biggest Nintendo fan growing up. That's more recent. However, I still played their stuff. But what I noticed in the gaming community is that a lot of gamers like 4K and 1080p and they buy for it, even if they don't actually know what it means or don't know what it is. They see, oh, a lot of other people like that. So we're gonna like it too. And so I think that even, and so I think that that developers look at that and they're seeing that. And it's just almost a choice of, maybe I can get this to run, but I don't want to or whatever reason. Well, the counterargument though it is, then what about the 100 million people that are about to buy Switch because they just want gaming on the go? They want console games on the go. So why are they paying attention to the smaller market versus the larger market is what I'm saying? Because 4K penetration right now really only exists in the United States. And even then it's at less than 5% of TVs and homes. So 4K penetration is dinky. It's like smaller all, like the amount of people that own a PlayStation 4 Pro and an Xbox One X is a smaller percentage of total gamers than on a Switch currently. And Switch is going to keep growing. Whereas, yeah, obviously people that buy PlayStation 5 and Xbox will just have 4K capabilities, but most of them won't even be playing in 4K because they don't own the TVs to play in 4K. So like the thing is you're making this argument about following the trends of gamers. So why are they ignoring the trend of gamers massively showing in droves, adults that have money in droves showing, we care less about 4K, we care more about taking our games into where we want. It's not necessarily following the trends in gaming. It's following the trends in technology. Sure. And the trends in technology is portable. They're ignoring the games. They're going technology. I mean, I guess that makes sense. You know, I think that's a great counter argument and I really don't know how to argue it with you. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm glad you're bringing up the argument you are. I'm not trying to make you feel like that. It's more so like there is two different trends. There's like 4K is the high end. The high end is always smaller than the low end. And the low end is people who want to take things everywhere. There's a reason smartphones are in billions of homes. From what I have experienced, I feel like that what I'm telling you is what the developers are thinking. Oh, no, definitely. And the developers don't have a neat chance. And Eric, last name, across the table giving them a counter argument. They're just saying. They shouldn't. They have the sales data in front of them. Switches are selling and people are buying games. They don't. And they're just trying. And it feels like companies try to find excuses to not have to develop for the switch. And I just, I don't know. I don't think it, I think that whether or not it is able to come to the switch, it doesn't matter because I don't think, I think that developers are going to say, you know what, screw that. It's 720p, I don't want to do it. And I just, no matter how many counter arguments on YouTube they see, there will have to be a huge shift in the mindset of people, or Nintendo has to pay them, one of the two first games like that to come. No, I agree. I mean, I don't disagree in that these games aren't going to come. They're not going to. I'm just expressing frustration in, we're not going to get portable 4K gaming because battery life is impossible right now. Right now. The battery technology has not advanced in a long time and it needs a massive, major overhaul and advancement for us to ever have portable 4K gaming. If someone's going to argue about phones, go ahead and play a 4K, a true 4K game that you downloaded on your phone in 4K. Watch your phone be dead in a half hour. Unless you're using a battery bank, and even then watch your battery bank be dead in an hour. Like it's just the technology is not there to really support it. Now 4K live streaming of videos and stuff, yes, but that's less intensive. You just get a couple hours of that before your phone dies. So it's one of those things where Nintendo's a little bit held back by technology in the portable sense for 4K. And obviously under box TVs or not, but it's weird because everything seems to be, like every year we hear about how digital sales growth is growing. Digital this is growing, digital that is growing, physical is going down, physical is going down. So why are we still talking about physical boxes under TVs? Like Xbox is almost showing, and PlayStation with their streaming service is showing like that in 10 years, 20 years. These boxes under TVs might not even be a thing that exists anymore. So why are we continuing to push towards a medium that might not exist? Kind of surprised like Xbox or Sony hasn't tried to partner with like Samsung and build in their systems into the TV. Certain TVs in China are doing it right now, but it's just China obviously. Where they just do everything. Yeah. Well, yeah. But I'm kind of surprised that that hasn't started to happen yet though. Where the systems are just built in. I mean it might start happening within this next generation, you never know. Maybe they start saying hey look, Sony we're bringing back our Sony TVs and we're putting PlayStation 5 inside every TV. Exactly, I mean Sony's got their own TV brand. Do they just still make TVs? I don't even remember. Did they sell out their TV brand and they still have it? They might have, but even then they still got the Sony name on it. I'm sure that it's gonna be a real hard to twist the arm of whoever the heck they did sell it off. Who owns the right, yeah. I don't know, it's a, I'm just of the mindset of people just care about playing games the way that they wanna play them. More so, like the people who care about 4K and the people you see you're roaring out there are such a small minority. But the problem is is they're loud. Sure, but the minority's always loud. That's why the majority, that's why I keep saying like when Mark was saying, oh they don't have an eight chance across the table talking to them, they don't need me. The numbers are right, I'm just regurgitating publicly known numbers. Numbers that Nintendo themselves have put out there. Nintendo themselves have put out that 92% of Switch owners are adults. That's out of Nintendo's mouth, that ain't me. That's their own stats are telling you a majority of people, like people say, oh Switch is for kids. Not according to Nintendo. Why do you think the attachment rate on games is so high? Because it's people who have money that own it. I know it, definitely. Why do you think the attachment rate is so low on Xbox? Because it's kids and teenagers that don't have money. Like it's crazy to me that this is even a conversation, like the stats are out there. I'm not telling them anything that they can't already know. Maybe they choose to ignore it. Maybe they just don't want to know. I think a lot of it is that Nintendo soured relationships and just because of that EA and everyone else just doesn't care what Nintendo. Nintendo could have a billion, that they could be an iPhone, billion sales. Doesn't matter. They're still not gonna get Cyberpunk 2077 or Rage 2. And investors might look at them like are you idiots? With a billion out there, even if you only sell 10 million on that system out of a billion, that's a really small amount. That's way the hell hired on everyone else's system. They don't care. And I think it's okay, by the way, for certain games to always cater to the higher end. I'm not arguing like there can't be games that don't come to Switch because they're only built for the highest of high end stuff. There are games like that on PC that are not on home consoles because they are built for the highest of high end stuff. I get that. Those games are should be and should be encouraged to exist, but that is not the norm. We're talking about multi-platform games that in general, like when Madding comes out on PC this year, I guarantee you the lowest of the low settings on that will be worse than what it could run on Switch. So it won't be a matter of if Switch is powerful enough. It's a matter of they just don't wanna do it. Like I know Cyberpunk 2077 is kind of an outlier, but I guarantee the lowest of low settings on PC for it will look worse than Switch games. So it's not a matter of if it can do it, it's if they want to. So if they're willing to let it run at these lowest, like the Witcher 3, they're really proud of the Witcher 3. Go ahead and put all the settings on low on Witcher 3 and PC. They allow that to exist. They obviously don't care that people play it on crap PCs. So. But it's PC. Oh yeah, it's PC. Who cares if they're using 720p money? They actually, did you know the Witcher 3 can run it at 480? Runs a sub HD on PC? Why is it a problem for Switch? It's all a mentality. And Nintendo's not gonna throw around the money because they, I don't know if they're too proud or if it's just a Japanese, it can't just be a joke because Sony throws around money. So I don't know what it is. Like why is near coming to Xbox and not Switch? It would sell way better on Switch than it's gonna sell on Xbox. We have proven on Switch, we buy Japanese RPGs. Yeah, one thing that I just wanna say before you end up moving on to another topic, I just wanna say about kids, I don't think that with the new media and with the online media, I don't think that kids being a child and an adult even matters as much in gaming anymore because I have a nine-year-old brother and he plays mature games, he'll play Doom, and he comes home and a friend taught him about the birds and the bees and I'm trying not to fake stuff. It's okay, yeah, no, no, this isn't a prime, you're fine. Yeah, but basically, I would say is that kids doesn't even matter anymore. It's a kids console. Kids right now is like six and under. If you're like seven, eight, nine, 10, you will be playing the Call of Duty, so four times the PUBG. You shouldn't be, that's bad parenting. They should not be. That's the thing, I know they are. They were when I was a kid too. Yeah. They were playing it when I was a kid, doesn't mean they shouldn't be. I didn't touch Call of Duty until I was like 15. I think at that point it's fine. When you're old enough to have a job, you're old enough to play whatever the hell you want. Yeah, but what parents actually, I'm not saying that it's not bad parenting, it's not good parenting. What I'm saying is with the internet, because I don't want to critique parents and I think that it's all with individual kids. Sure. But what I would say is with the internet, they're, if the nine-year-olds, they can look up, they know how to use the internet as a very young Asian. So my nine-year-old brother, he could easily go on YouTube, search up, doom, play through, and just watch that and no one would know, but he'd still be doing it. So I just think that he shouldn't, but he does, they with, that's what young kids do. I know, this is what I'm saying. And I get what you're saying. Like, not every parent is gonna be like me. I know what my kids are doing on the internet at all times and everything's blocked. Yeah. They can't, if they search porn in a browser, they're just gonna get an X that shows up on their screen because I literally know everything going on at all time and control every device that's on my network. And I have direct access to it from my phone and it pings me every time a new device connects and tells me everything that device is doing when it's on my internet network. You need a lot of parents on it. I know, a lot of parents aren't like that. Yeah. Not even that, they don't even know how. But that's my thing. Don't let your kids use the internet if you don't know how to control the internet. I mean, that's true, but at some point you can't go to like a 13-year-old. That's about the time people are getting phones now and be like, sorry, you can't have a phone because I don't know how to do this. I just, I don't think we should. Sorry, I didn't have a phone till I was 20. You ain't having a phone so you can pay for it yourself. I'm just saying kids now, like, why would I do it? No, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Not the point. We don't need to get into a parenting discussion. No, no, no, my thing is, my thing is when, I saw this when I was a kid too and when I saw other kids playing M-rated games and I wasn't, I kept looking at it as, do your parents know that games only for adults? No, they don't. They don't look at ratings. It's funny. Parents will pay attention to ratings on movies. Well, you can't watch a Rated R movie but you can play this adult-only game that has sex and tits in it. Because your friend plays it, so it must be okay. Yeah, but like at the end of the day. Their parent thinks it's okay. They're like, no, their parent doesn't know. At the end of the day, the point I'm trying to make is for games, even on Xbox they have these, they're selling games like Fallout and Skyrim and all these mature games. And so what I say is that a lot of kids do buy this mature game, so I don't think it matters. The kids don't buy and the parents don't. See, that's the point I'm saying. My whole point with the Switch is that the people that have the money own the Switch. I let my kids play on my Switch, but it's my Switch, my money, my games I buy. Like kids aren't buying games because they don't have a job. The parents are buying it. So a system that caters to the people who have the money should get the games those people wanna play. That's my entire argument, is that adults, primarily on Switch, adults have money. These games are meant for adults. Yes, I realize a bunch of kids have it, but you know what kids want now? There's a lot of kids wanting to Switch because the parents have it. It's not the cool thing. Which is weird because normally with something your parents have is uncool. That was number two of video game systems, remember? My dad was a PC gamer. That's how I became a PC gamer. With video games, that's never been true. There's other things, it's always like, my parents and dad don't wanna be that. But when it came to video games, it was always, oh yeah, my parents playing it, that's cool, I wanna play it. How did I become a gamer? My dad played NES, so I played NES. That's just how, my kids didn't even know what a video game was till they saw me playing video games. That's just how it goes. They get introduced to the video games usually by someone who's older. If it's not their parents, it's an older cousin. Or something like that. Or someone at school eventually introduces them. And what are they getting introduced to when they're at school in an Xbox? They're getting introduced to Switch. 3DS, Pokemon, Minecraft on phones or something. It's one of those things where I understand your argument, but that argument, that's just the way it's been forever. The parents are still the ones with the money behind the games. So go where the money is. There's a reason, even despite this argument, the attachment rate for Xbox games is way lower than it is for Switch, for console sold. Meaning that for all the arguments out there about the kids, the kids, the kids, it's the adults buying the games. As is being proven by the system that has more adults on it. It's just, at the end of the day, it's our pointless argument because we all know, all three of us sitting here know, that Switch is not gonna get these games. It's just not gonna happen. And we have to be, quote unquote, thankful of the scraps we get off the heat. We have to be thankful we're getting Dragon Ball Fighters after everyone in the world said Switch can't run it, now it's running at 1080p 60fps. We have to be thankful that, apparently, Switch can run that game. We have to be thankful that we're getting Wolfenstein 2. It's like, who cares that it came late? You should just be thankful you have it. I'm like, I should care that it came late because they should have dedicated it to it two years ago. When they had the dev kits. And I just need to, I just need to save this really fast. I forget who's making it. I think it's Comcast, but whoever's making that a vendor's game, if I swear that better be on the Switch. It won't be. It won't, but that's, I'm on a podcast. I'm on YouTube. I gotta get it out there right now. I have 500 people watching it in case the developer's watching. I want that. Developer? I'm so... You have no idea, I'm gonna get blasted in the, my rants in this are gonna be so blasted. All my sub-momentum kill, it won't be killed actually because we only have like 500 people that watch my cast, so it'll be all good. Yeah. Move on to our next topic. Another kind of weird one, Netflix. So Hulu's been on Switch in the United States for a while. Crunchyroll and other stuff's on Switch in other countries. It isn't for some reason here, don't know why. But what's kind of universal is no one really has Netflix. Thank you for saying that. Now I'm gonna go back and take a look to see if some other things are out. Oh jeez. That they used to watch Crunchyroll. You forgot about Crunchyroll? Yeah. So Netflix really isn't out anyway. And last year Netflix basically said, we're good to go, we're waiting on Nintendo. Reggie, at E3 this year, was asked about why Netflix is not Switch and here's what he said. Right now, we enable Hulu on the platform. We said that other services will come in due time. For us, we wanted to make sure that we continue driving the install base for Nintendo Switch, continue to have great games to the platform. In terms of what's next on the streaming sign, you're gonna have to talk to those individual providers in terms of where they stand and what they're working at. So basically Netflix said, we're waiting on Nintendo and Nintendo's saying, talk to Netflix. This is code for Hulu paid us money and we're gonna give them timed exclusive. I don't even think it's that at this point. I think this is code for there to stand off in contract negotiations. There's that too. And they're just blaming each other. Yeah. Because who said back in January, we're still in talks with Nintendo. Hulu can, they don't even have to make the app. It's on Nvidia Shield. It's done. It's been done. It's been done before Switch even came out. It's not a question of if Netflix can be on Switch. That's never, I mean, it's not 3DS for crying a lot. Okay, literally this isn't taking years for them to develop the app. This is a contract negotiation thing because Netflix is a subscription service and Nintendo is with or paid online. Everything going on Nintendo is probably trying to slice the subscription service business and Netflix is probably arguing no you can't because this is a multi-flat form thing. People aren't necessarily buying Netflix through your eShop. Yeah. They paid for it on PC and we want to run it through your system just like Hulu. Yeah. So I don't understand. I don't know who to be mad at because we don't know what's going on. All we know is there is a standoff. It's like a Mexican standoff and we don't know what the hell's going on. I mean, if I had to guess because Hulu didn't have this problem and if I had to guess what the problem could be it might not even be like we want a piece of the money that's being spent for people. I always assume money because that's usually the problem. Yeah. What I think it might be is with our or Nintendo's online service that's coming out. I think that Nintendo might want to require you to have the online service to use Netflix and Netflix might want to be like they're already paying for description. They don't need to have online to also use it. And I think, I feel like that's kind of a stupid argument because that is, but like, I think that could be it because it is on the 3DS. And so you'd think since it's on the 3DS can it not come to the switch with like the same terms? And I think that's the difference between 3DS and the switch. And so that might have something to do with it. Maybe. I mean, it used to be behind the paywalls on Sony and Microsoft too. So I'm not sure Netflix has an issue with it being behind the paywall. Used to be. Well, yeah, but they stopped doing it because too many consumers were complaining. So now. So I don't know if they were just unsubscribing? But that's the thing now they might have a problem with it. The big thing is, the big thing in all of this is unless it's behind the paywall what's the benefit to Nintendo? Like what does Nintendo benefit of having Netflix on 3DS? That you turn your 3DS on more it doesn't make them more money. And no one's gonna buy a switch to watch Netflix. No one really buys anything to watch Netflix. It's just on everything. So you don't have to worry about it. You buy a TV today, it has Netflix. So, I just don't know what this standoff could be about. And it's not just Netflix. The focus is on Netflix. Where's YouTube? Yeah, yeah. Where's any other service that isn't Hulu? Where's internet browsers? Notice how we're getting a paid online system on an internet browser? So now I'm paying for online services and I can't really even access online? Why? On a tablet, it actually makes more sense for me to use an internet browser on a switch than any other platform. Yeah. But phones. Yeah. And I can't because reasons? Even though the browser's there and I technically can, it's a workaround? I mean, I just think this whole thing's kind of stupid. It's all stupid. We're not able to know, we're not going to know. No, we're never gonna know. Whatever Nintendo's doing, Nintendo tries to, I think that this kind of shows that Nintendo can sometimes be just as anti-consumer as Sony, even though they don't wanna look at it. Yeah, the only people being heard are consumers. Like, I don't know what the contract negotiation is, but someone needs to give in because consumers are suffering by the fact that I have a switch hooked up to my TV in my office. I'm sure other people have their switch hooked up to TVs in the living room or in the rooms wherever they keep it docked. And there is a convenience factor. Like, what Xbox One was trying to do at three is a convenience factor of not needing the switch devices to watch something. And even though all of us have access to Netflix and a zillion other ways, my TV has Netflix on it. I don't have to use the switch. It is super convenient to switch between games. Like, I have Hulu on my TV, but I still watch Hulu on my Switch on my TV over using the Hulu on my TV. Cause it's just so quick for me to swap between games and Hulu. Switch is already booted up. It's super convenient. It's a convenience. And you're ruining user convenience. And this isn't even coming to people that maybe they have switch in their bedroom and they just want to set it on their night stand and turn and watch it. Cause they don't want to, I know some people think that's funny. There's a lot of people that are holding phones above their faces and still dropping it on their face watching movies. It is funny. Like, all of us have been there. I've owned a smart device. And some people have a night stand. They just want to set their switch. They actually want to use the kickstand for something. Oh, wait, what? Wait, there's a kickstand? Yeah. Yeah, there's a kickstand? Wait. And just watch Netflix and still be able to use your phone. Like now you can ball that task. Yeah, right? Hey. It feels like a hang-dang measuring contest. Yeah. So I don't think there's really anything else to talk about this, cause we don't know what's going on. I just think it's funny that Netflix points of fingers at Nintendo and Nintendo points of fingers back at them clearly showing that there's a disagreement somewhere and no one can give in. The only thing I'm wondering with like YouTube is because there's so many Nintendo videos on YouTube. Oh, yeah. Heaven forbid, you know. But then some people play Zad right now. Oh, right. But you know, heaven forbid, if some other platform shows a Nintendo video. You know. Yeah, YouTube's on 3DS too. I don't know what's going on. Okay, that's why I think it's more on Nintendo than anything cause when you're talking about, okay, every streaming platform except for Hulu could get on there. Yeah. Japan's version of YouTube is on there. What is happening in the United States that Nintendo America is just like, sorry, we can't have these streaming services on there. Go ahead and talk to those, as Reggie said, go talk to those providers on why it's not on Switch. Like, what are you doing that's different? Pretty sure we did. And it says we're waiting on Nintendo. Pretty sure we did. We don't know what YouTube is. Oh, well, yes, but still. But still. But YouTube's got enough issues. We're on YouTube right now. They've got enough issues. All right, this last topic really isn't anything other than whatever we wanna maybe get in before the end. Mark, do you have anything you'd like to talk about? You are the guest. I mean, I have a couple of things I can think of that are just quick. And what I'd say is just a future of Nintendo and probably Sony and Microsoft. And I just want to say- Going next, Jen, here we go. And not just of this year, I think that you said in a video and I personally agree with you. We kind of feel like we're having a leap year here and then we have a huge thing coming on 2019. Yeah, with Nintendo games, for sure. Yeah, with Nintendo. But I think I wanna hear both your thoughts on Sony and Microsoft. Where do you think Microsoft goes? Where do you think Sony goes? And because we've kind of touched on a little bit of Microsoft and also for Nintendo-wise. After 2019, when we get into 2020, 2021, are they gonna stick with the Switch or are they gonna move on to Switch too? Because they wanna keep up with Sony and Xbox. Okay, cool. Eric, you have any thoughts? I have a lot, so. Right. For Nintendo-wise, I think they're gonna try to hold onto the Switch as long as physically possible. I, you know, whether it's just upgrading, you know, Switch XL, Switch, you know, Mini, Switch, whatever, I think they're gonna try to hold onto this as long as physically possible. Xbox is, I think, gonna go back to the power out. That's kind of where I think that's gonna head. Sony's gonna just be Sony and do what it does and hope it, you know, either it's gonna take off or crash. It depends on Sony's attitude and how it treats its people. Right now, it looks, you know, not great, but it's, it is what it is. Sony's gonna Sony. Yeah, my thing is, I don't even think it's gonna be 2020. I think next year we're getting a Switch revision. I don't know if it's Switch 2, don't know if it's Switch Pro, Switch XL, I don't know what it is, but we're getting a Tegra X2 Switch next year. It's just gonna happen. I don't know if it's gonna be because PlayStation 5 and Xbox 2 might be announced next year, or if it's just because this is what Nintendo planned to do, but I look at what, what we have to remember here is, I know Nintendo calls it a home console, but it's a portable home console, and what have they been doing with portables? It took about three years and two and a half years to three years before we got the new Nintendo 3DS, which is a more powerful 3DS. So we're getting a more powerful Switch next year. It's happening. It'll be cross compatible with everything Switch is, it won't have any exclusive games, at least not from Nintendo side of things. Doesn't mean there won't be third parties that only make games for it, but I know that Nintendo themselves will have to. We don't know if they're pretty in picking. I know, third parties don't make games anyways. First Switch, so whatever, assuming that there's someone who's waiting for that more powerful Switch. Yeah, now as for doing it in response to compete with the next generation of the other systems, mobile technology isn't anywhere, the top end mobile technology in the world can't even compete with the PlayStation 4. There's nothing they can do with Switch's concept to make it compete with the next generation of systems. There's just nothing out there they can do about that. It's not Nintendo's fault, that's just the way mobile technology is. There's nothing they can do about it. So, they're not gonna be doing it in response to Sony Microsoft, they're doing it in response to themselves. They caught on to a way to incrementally improve platforms over time and they're gonna keep doing that. Every two to three years, I think the Switch train is a 10 year journey. And every three years we're getting anyone. And then we'll see what happens at the end. Because Nintendo said this is gonna be longer than a six or seven year generation, which means probably a decade. They have a decade long contract with NVIDIA, according to NVIDIA themselves. So, we're gonna get a new Switch every three years. It's gonna be almost like the mobile phone market, but only every three years instead of every year. And we're gonna get a new revision and a new upgrade. And everything's gonna be cross compatible throughout the entire generation until we get to that 10 year mark. And that's when they, well it might even be maybe on the second revision, they might think about dumping the original Switch in terms of making everything cross compatible with the original Switch. But again, for people that are panicking, like we're talking like seven years. Like seven years of Switch. We're talking before they finally say, oh you should probably buy one of these upgraded Switches. So it's like, come on. You can't complain, you didn't get your full generation out of your Switch at that point. Oh no I didn't. Cause I know someone's gonna be like, no they can't do that. And I'm like, come on, seven years. How much more do you need? And that final three years I guess? Eight man. Seven and a half. One more day. It's never gonna compete with the latest and greatest in home consoles because it can't. No. Nintendo's gonna Nintendo. They have all of their companies making games just on Switch, which means Switch alone is probably gonna have the most Nintendo games ever created for a single platform ever by the time it's all said and done. And I'm talking about from Nintendo, first and second party studios. Because this is the first time in Nintendo's history, literally in their history, that every one of their development teams are only making Switch games. They've always, they had NES and Game Boy came out like two years later. So it's been so. Nate, before you move on to talk about things like Xbox and Sony, what I also wanna ask you is I was watching some Disney channel with my younger siblings when I was with them. And I- I watched this channel with all my kids here. And I watched it for like, not my point, my point is, and so like that channel is obviously for younger kids and that's kind of who was marketing that. And I was, we watched about an hour and a half and in that hour and a half, there were two 3DS commercials that came on. And so all of us gamers are like, 3DS, oh, it's dying, it's dead because like they're not showing anything, maybe three and stuff like that. Are they really getting rid of the 3DS? No, no, they're not. The Reggie said at E3 that 3DS has already grown by 10% this year. What I'm saying is it's not that they're getting rid of that platform, look at the game, like you don't need E3, look at the games that are announced for it. The games that they are bringing to it are not like their big studios like they used to be. You're not getting another Super Mario 3D land. You're not getting, although we just imagined Dark Moon again. It's a marketing shift, it's gonna be more like the Nintendo literally said that it's for little kids. So what they're relying on is their legacy content and then third parties bringing things like Sweet Laugh of Zack and Cody and whatever is popular. That's what I'm talking about. Whatever, like that's what they're relying on. Like, oh look, they're getting the Luigi's Mansion. Yeah, they're getting an older version. They're getting the original Luigi's Mansion that looks worse on 3DS. Whoops. Like they got, oh yeah, great, they got Metroid Samus Returns. They're not getting a new Metroid game. Like the Nintendo isn't putting any effort into their 3DS content. They're just relying on it's cheap. We're targeting kids. Parents are seeing those kid commercials. They see they can get a 2DS for 70 bucks. Yeah, you don't have to buy them a Switch. It's a, here's- It's got that soaky mon. Yes, here's something that's similar to the Switch but not, you know- I don't even, it's not even, they're not even associating it with Switch. Kids, kids. Kids don't even care. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a tablet. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's just, it's a system that's gonna continue to sell because the price of it is so cheap. The marketing is, and that, and again, that worked towards the Switch's favor. Everyone says, like, I still hear, even in like game staff and stuff, Switch is for kids. No, Nintendo is specifically saying 3DS is for kids. Like, Switch is for adults. They're trying to differentiate it like that. Yes, I'm aware, guys, there's commercials with kids playing it in a family setting because there are family games. We're having a Mario Party come, like there's family games. It's fine. Like, there's also commercials that have kids in it for PlayStation and Xbox. Is that like that a kid console? Oh, remember, PlayStation is a kid's console because you have to protect them. Yeah, I would protect the children. Anyways, I think, I'm not so worried about that. They're gonna drag 3DS along until it's not selling. Like, that's, yeah, just what they're gonna do. They have no reason not to drag it along. It costs them almost nothing to make these days. They have a massive library of thousands of games. They can continue to sell to kids. All the games are dirt cheap. Parents are always looking for cheap entertainment for their kids. It's gonna survive for another two or three years just off of that. But, when I say like, all of the Nintendo for the first time in history is everything working on Switch because just look at everything working on Switch. They are not announcing any big 3DS games anymore. Their biggest 3DS game announcement of the year was Luigi's Mansion. Which is great, but it's a port of a GameCube game that looks worse on 3DS because the kids aren't gonna go into the crowd. No. Yeah, I know we're getting Captain Toad Treasure Tracker. That's great, that's cool. It's a Wii U port, it's a Wii U down port, technically. Like, they're not getting like new big games. There's not another Unlink Between Worlds coming to the platform. Like, they're done making me a dream. Like, Pokemon's not, here's the thing. Pokemon is no longer being made for 3DS anymore. That alone lets you know, they're not even making Pokemon games for it anymore. They're not making anything. So yeah, they'll drag it along until no one buys it, but there's no reason not to, but it's not taking development resources. When we say it's dead, it's more kind of dead in terms of... Nintendo's focused on making games on Switch. It's not 3DS. 3DS is just marketing kids, sell as many of these things as we can because they're cheap. Right. Now, that being said, I've sit and talked much about Xbox and PlayStation here. I think Xbox is going to come out firing as we're the most powerful system on the market. We're at a competitive price with the next PlayStation. And here's a look at a bunch of exclusive games from all these studios we've bought. They're going to try to good will it. They're going to try to pull an EA and they're going to good will it. And they're going to do the best they can with that and we'll see what happens. I don't know. We haven't seen the games yet, but I think that's what they're going to try to do. Sony is going to come out and they're going to say something like here's PlayStation 5, the successor to the most successful, highest selling platform of the last generation because they can't forget touting themselves up to sell. They can't sell the system based on its own merits. That has to be based on the prior console. I just got feeling they're going to use some sort of marketing spending that can't not mention the PlayStation 4. And yeah, they're going to have games. I think a lot of the games they even show this year, like Ghost of Tashima, I don't think that's coming to PlayStation 4 at all. I think that's PlayStation 5 game. But isn't Nintendo Switch technically a last gen thing? So like, what makes it a last gen thing? Well, like not last gen, but like when PS5 comes out, it'll be Nintendo Switch will be from the, the original one at least will be from the last gen. So like, if that one, like this is just a hypothetical, but like if that one outsold PS4 afterwards, like. But at the time, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter later on, the PS5 is already going to be taken off and going. It's at this point, it is the current highest selling current gen thing. Down the road, who cares? If Nintendo pass them, they pass them. But at the time it starts, that's what they can tell. Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. And the big thing is PlayStation 5 is still gonna be fine. Like Sony's worst selling home console, I think was PlayStation 1. Like even PlayStation 3 ended up matching 360, even maybe it's surpassing it overall by the end of the generation. Mostly because Sony ended the generation very strong. Like Last of Us, Grand Theft Auto, and I don't know Grand Theft Auto was multi-plat, but it ran better on PlayStation 3. And just like, are they in that last, those final two years of PlayStation 3 were phenomenal things. I think they realized they oops in the beginning and had to try to push. There wasn't even a realization, this is what Sony does. So look at PlayStation 4 and it being called port station at the beginning. PlayStation 3 was the same way. PlayStation 4 is the same, PlayStation 5 is gonna be the same way. All the best games on PlayStation 5 over the first year to two years are going to be PlayStation 4 ports. That's what it's going to be. And then, and then throughout all of this, they'll have E3s where they announce games that aren't coming for two or three years. And then PlayStation 4 is gonna have a killer end of a generation. It's gonna have Last of Us 2. Heck, maybe Ghost of Jashima's gonna be on there as well. It's probably gonna have Shenmue 3. Like, it's all these games that are already announced. Maybe they all are PlayStation 4 games. They're gonna come on to PlayStation 4 and put they're also gonna come to PlayStation 5. Because that's what they did with PlayStation 3 to PlayStation 4. So, that's the thing. Sony's gonna have momentum. And they're going to do fine. I think PlayStation 5, it's gonna move 50, 60 million units. I don't think they have any problem doing that. I just think Xbox is gonna bounce back and also move 50 to 60 million units instead of 30 million. Because they're gonna take back that market share that ran to Sony in the first place because of how poorly Xbox launched themselves. And the people that left them for the more powerful system that cost the same amount, well, guess who's gonna have the more powerful system that probably cost the same amount. It's gonna be Xbox this time. And Xbox is gonna be bringing the games. I have a feeling. And we'll see what happens. I have a feeling that they're gonna stay there for a while. I think Sony's gonna be fine. The problem Sony has, and this is just a problem with their company in general, is they are very, very reliant on the PlayStation brand right now. And it's one thing for Nintendo to be so reliant on how well Switch does or how well this does. Nintendo's in a way better advantage than Sony has. They have zero debt, they have $7, $8 billion in the bank. That's not counting any assets that they already have. Like they probably have, combined total, like they probably have $10 or $11 billion in just pure asset value. Sony doesn't have that. Sony has the PlayStation brand and then a bunch of failing things they've been trying to sell off, and then insurance. They also make money off insurance. I don't know how they make money off insurance, but apparently they haven't very good. It's insurance. Of course you're gonna make money off of it. Because you never pay out. Right. Everyone pays in, but then you find loopholes and they're not paying you up. Exactly. Oh, your house flooded? Well, you technically had flood insurance, but only good for two centimeters of flooding, not two inches of flooding. Right. Or whatever. It was all metric, not, not, not. They're using the wrong measurements. Good luck taking us to court because we have all the money. And you signed this contract. Yeah, that you can't get out of and you're stuck in for 10 years. So, welcome to insurance. I hate it. It's, it's just a interesting place Sony's in. It's not like I think Sony's gonna do bad or gonna fail. They're gonna be fine. I don't think they're gonna be as successful because I think Xbox is getting some market back. I think Switch is just gonna keep doing its own thing because Nintendo does its own thing and it's been working for them. It's a handheld. It doesn't really compete in the same market. And I know some people are gonna come and go, if it doesn't compete in the same market then why do you want it to get the same games? Well, because Switch's novelty is that it's supposed to be able to get those games and play them on the go. That's the novelty factor of Switch. Get rid of those games and that novelty is just, well, now you play Nintendo games on the go but we've been playing Nintendo games on the go since the 80s. So it's not really a novelty. No. It's just now they're even better looking Nintendo games on the go. But the thing is, for me, Nintendo should be trying to get as many, you know, of these games. They should be trying their, ourself. And I'm not saying they're not. I don't think Nintendo needs to, as we talked about before, there's no point in sitting on a massive bank roll if you're not ever willing to spend it. What's the money you're gonna do sitting in a bank? I mean, a crew interest, I guess, or what else? The idea that you're marketing this as, you know, home console, home console games on the go. My thing is, especially in Japan, I get it. Maybe they're not gonna come hard at EA, Bethesda, Ubisoft, fine, fine, fine, fine. Why don't you go on Hard of Squaring, Nix, Capcom, Konami? Why aren't your AAA games coming to Switch? Yeah, we're getting Mega Man 11, that's great. Why aren't we getting Resident Evil 2 Remake? Why is the only version of Resident Evil on our platform, or Resident Evil 7, streaming version, and it's only in Japan? Why don't we have the real Resident Evil 7? Like, Nintendo's got the bank roll. I don't know. That's kind of my take. Do you have something else you wanna talk about, Mark, before we head out? I mean, I got one quick thing, but before that, I just need to, I've always wanted to say this word, editor. Editor, editor, editor. Editor, nice. Now, editor, please make sure that every time I say editor, to put the text of editor on the screen after I say editor, because that's always been one of the better jokes on the podcast. Oh boy. Mr. Editor. Now the question is, is Mark gonna listen to a guest, or does he only listen to the boss? I don't pay him, so you can listen to whatever you want. Editor, editor. I hope that you can do this for me. Thank you, editor, AKA Martin. Yes. Hello, Martin. Okay, this is fantastic. Mark, you might even, you might as well put in the effort, because you might get a week or so off here. I don't know what will happen after surgery or so. All right, so what is the other topic you wanted us to talk about? Mark. Did we lose again? Mark. I think we might have lost him again. Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. Hello. Oh, there it is, hey. Back, okay, there you go. So basically, what I'm thinking, I know you made a video on it, but for, I'm blanking on our name to people that made, that were supposed to make Star Fox Grand Prix. Yeah, Retro Studio. Retro Studios, thank you. So Retro Studios, like, is it possible that they, like, just, like, Nintendo stopped using them because I feel like, or just like, kinda, maybe, I mean, I don't know, I just. You're getting suspicious. That's what it is. I think I saw your comment on my video about that. About something about, something about how, did they, like, kinda sorta close the studio but not tell anyone? Is Retro still alive? Yeah, yeah. Like, that's the thing, like, it's been so many years. Can we get a, like, a health check? Yeah, right. Somebody check, somebody check that pulse. Can we get a health check? Is Retro Studio still around? Doctor in the house? I mean, they're still hiring people. Hey, wait, wait. They literally have hiring posts out there. Like, they're still hiring, so I don't know. Maybe they lost so much people and they quit. I don't know. Just because they're hiring doesn't mean they're actually hiring. I could put up posts for hiring if I want to. Doesn't mean I'm actually hiring anybody. Well, we actually know some of the employees that are still there. Oh, okay. So they still exist. They're still doing something. I think what we have to remember is that there was more rumors associated with Retro heading into E3 than just the Star Fox thing. There was also another rumor that came about, I think from Kotaku, that Star Fox was not actually the game that they had been working on all this time. They had actually been working on a completely different game, a brand new IP, that wasn't coming together after three years. And they put it on the shelf and then started working on Star Fox. So then they've actually only been working on Star Fox for like a year and a half. So, yeah, they're making the Star Fox game, it's just not ready. Yeah, I mean, what I would, like, I know this is never gonna happen, but what I want is I want Nintendo to give Retro the option to do something similar to Cyberpunk, because I think that game looks incredible. And I think that- The Nintendo never will. Nintendo never will, but a game that's like, it's open world, it's current in our current USA, or maybe even in Japan or- You mean we want Retro Studios to actually make a Western game? Yeah. We want that, yeah, like that's what we want. The problem is, is that it requires Nintendo to spend money. Well, Nintendo doesn't like spending money. I know, that's the problem. Like, a Nintendo Blade II is amazing. Then you find out it's made with a team of like 50 people. It's like, to make one of these, like a Cyberpunk, does Nintendo willing to give Retro Studios a 300 person team? No, no, they ain't doing it. No. They'll give Retro Studios 20 people and tell them you have, well, apparently six years, seven years to make a game. You're right. Why not? By that time, you know, Switch 7 might be out. Yeah, I mean, there's a benefit to it, because Nintendo doesn't hire temporary employees, right? So like, they hire people they're gonna keep on. Retro Studios is expanding. They've been hiring. We don't know how many employees they have exactly because we know Nintendo on the whole has 5,000, roughly. They put that in the last investors meeting, about 5,000 global employees. That's nothing. I think Sony has something like 30,000 or something like that. Like a company that's worth significantly less than Nintendo with no money in the bank and a whole bunch of debt has way the hell more employees. That's probably why. I mean, one possibility is like, what if Retro was making a Western game and it was just taking so long because Nintendo would only give them a 50, 60 person workforce that Nintendo was like, look, that's great, make it. I don't care. Just give me a Star Fox racing game. Give me something out of use so that we can make money and then you can go back to your Western game. Yeah, that's always a hope. I think what happened is that as the rumor said, whatever game they were working on had a lot of development issues. So like the rumor basically stated the game back canned. So it's one of those things where I wanna believe that Star Fox is a stopgap and then we're gonna get some brand new IP in like two years after Star Fox from Retro. Reality is that I don't think that's probably the case. I think it's Retro Studios technically has two teams. They formed two teams like back during the Wii U days, I think, because they were supposed to develop two games simultaneously was the idea. I don't really know what happened with that. We don't know anything because the one thing that is really weird every E3 is no one is asking Reggie what's up with Retro Studios. They asked one Metroid, that's what Star Fox, but they won't be like, so Retro Studios didn't have a game here again. Are they actually making something? No one's asking, because Reggie's gonna say yeah. No, they're not making any game. Yeah, they're making something. Like no one's doing a pulse check. I don't know, he might tell you to ask them. Yeah, I don't know, that sounds like a better question for Retro Studios. We can't get a hold of them, they're not here. Somebody needs to send Dr. Mario over there to take their pulse, maybe cure a virus or two. Lo and behold, we find out they've just been making Metroid Prime for the whole time and Nintendo lied to us that it's a new team. Yeah, right. It's a new team. It's a new team for Retro Studios. It's that second development team that's made up of all the people who made Metroid Prime 1, 2, 3. Hey, why not? No, I know it's not that, because some people who made the Metroid Prime stuff already left the company, but yeah, I don't know. Retro Studios, the thing is they're basically like Nintendo's Rare, they're their only Western Studios that they wholly own. They make only games for Nintendo platforms, probably only games for Switch at this point. Every game they've ever made has been excellent. Granite, we're just talking about three Metroid games and two Donkey Kong games, which isn't very much. No, but. But. What confuses me is that they somehow can't get Retro Studios up to the production level of their Japanese studios. Like, even just one of their Japanese studios outputs more games than Retro Studios. And all those differences in communication and cultures. Is it, I was gonna say, it's part of it because it's a Western studio. And Nintendo's kind of, you know, not anti-Western, but not as, they are more Japan and that's what they care about. Sure. More than Western. It's not that, like I said, it's not that they're anti-Western, it's just they're more. But what does that have to do with the people currently working that are making the game? They just don't focus on it. They don't give the resources to allow Retro Studios to have the resources as what they would with their Japanese developers. What? I'm calling bullshit. I mean, Granite, we're just guessing we know what the hell's going on. But I'm still calling bullshit because most of the Nintendo's teams in Japan are smaller than Retro Studios. The only team that is actively bigger is the Zelda team. And that's because the Zelda team used to be two teams that got combined into one. So they used to make handheld and then home console but then it's just one. So they have like a hundred people making the Zelda game at all times. Versus Retro, which has like, last time I saw it was something like 72 minus new hiders and people have quit over the last couple of years. Nate, if you wanted to go and see your wife's eyes, you've given us another conversation topic. So, what? I gotta go here, Mark. Honey, what do you got? This is my last one. All right, last one, here we go. You helped me. Zelda, do you think there will be a new Zelda, kind of like Breath of the Wild, coming in the next two years, one year? Or do you think that's something for more like 2021, 2022? It's coming in 2020. That's kind of what I was thinking. Next year, we'll be all about the new Pokemon game, Metroid Prime 4, maybe even Star Fox. We might get a remastered Zelda. Maybe even an Animal Crossing. 2020's gonna have another Mario and Zelda. I'd agree, I would agree. Cause the last ones would have been three years before. Feels like time to drop another one. We're getting Odyssey 2. Well, I don't know if it's Odyssey 2, but it'll be something in the vein of Odyssey. New Super Mario Odyssey. Oh, it could. Caveat could be Mario Maker 2. That would be nice. That lets you make 3D Mario games. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa now. Whoa, now let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. I'm gonna have a heart attack. And yeah, I think Breath of the Wild 2 or whatever the next Zelda game, I'm hoping. So here's the thing. I think it releasing in 2020 is probably the Zelda game is wishful thinking. Because if they're not doing anything, but making, like if they're not doing top-down Zellas anymore, they're just doing the big open world 3D stuff. They've, like, all of their previous ones are like the past 15 years have taken five years each. So it's like, yeah, 2022 should be when I expect it. But, 2020! Cause EGA, and then we'll keep saying he wants to have it come out every three years. So he's finally gonna do it. I don't know how, well, I don't know how, cause Monolith's self's gonna help him. Cause we're gonna, we already have most of the assets. Yeah, they're just gonna make Breath of the Wild 2. The majority of them, I don't know, something. There's a new Zelda game in 2020. It'll be announced next year at E3. And it'll come out in 2020. That's my, that's my thought. Here's the thing, I can easily see it going next year at E3 2020 Zelda, but will it actually release 2020? That's the problem. Zelda's the one thing that when they tell you release date, just wait for two more years. He does have a very good point. Zelda's like, yeah, and 2020, and it's delayed. It'll be worth the wait. And usually it's worth the wait, but yeah. I'm gonna go with their, I'm going to announce next year release in 2020, new Zelda game. I don't know what it is. I think next year, since we didn't get it this year, I think next year is gonna be, we're gonna get Zelda games next year, it's gonna just gonna be either a port of Twilight Princess and the Wind Waker HD, and it'll be like an HD collection, or it might even be that, but they throw Skyward Sword in the bunch, or we get just Skyward Sword HD. I think next year, we are going to get some sort of, some sort of Zelda game that's not like a mainline. It's just gonna be either a new HD game, like Skyward Sword or a port, because they love those ports, so they're gonna port some more. And then 2020, like they're gonna now, they're gonna announce like Skyward Sword HD, or an HD collection of Skyward Sword, the Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, Addy 3 at the same time they announce the next Zelda game. So it's gonna be like the double whammy. Oh, whoa. Until you get this game next year. Here you go. No, we're gonna announce those first, and then, oh, by the way, here's a brand new one. And then they drop the brand new one same day. Oh! Okay. They want it, yeah. They want it. I mean, I'm not. Would that be weird? You don't even know as Zelda games, even being calm all of a sudden. First A.V.3. Here's a new Zelda game. By the way, you could buy it today. I think everybody just crept themselves. I don't think anyone would watch the rest of E3. Yeah, right? They would just go buy the Zelda game and be busy. Oh, by the way, our whole booth is this. Again. Again, that you can already buy and play right now so we don't really need to have it here playable because you're already on it, and you're already playing it while you wait in line to get into the booth to play a demo on it. Because that's Nintendo. Yes. Yeah, I think next year, because this year it was more of a smash booth because half the booth was smashed. I think next year is Pokemon. Because it's the new next generation of Pokemon. Oh, in the second Pokemon game? Yeah, it's supposed to be. No, let's go. It's supposed to be, like, let's go as a mainline, but next year is gonna be like generation eight. So it's gonna be Pokemon game next year. All right, that's gonna do it for the podcast. It's already been longer than I wanted it to, but you know what? Had to go extra long for Markey, my boy. He did request that it wasn't just a short one hour podcast. Well, you definitely got your long podcast, Mark. Gosh darn it. That's what I get for throwing in the topic of whatever Mark wants, basically. Yeah. All right, folks. I wanna thank everyone for tuning in. Again, don't know what's happened to the podcast after this week while I'm recovering, but hopefully recovery goes well, nothing bad happens. And we make something happen, even if it's just Eric and I intimately laying in a bed together, talking about Nintendo. As I hug my Mario pillow that I don't have. Yes, I'm hinting to Eric, hinting. Give me a recovery pillow with Mario on it. Squeeze your Pokeball Stress Ball. Oh yeah, my Pokeball Stress Ball. I do have a stuff. I have Donnie. I have Donnie. You guys know him. Donnie the Domino. I got him. Oh yeah. Yeah, I'll have him intimately in bed with me. Oh, you don't have. Maybe I should take down my Link Blanket and have that in bed with me. Link. Too bad you don't have the Noid. I mean. I know what happened to him. Also, I think that from the Nintendo community, I think that I speak, since I'm the only one from the Nintendo Prime community here that's not Nate or Eric. I think that we all just, I think we all wanna say thank you to Eric and Julia for taking care of Nate's kids while he gets surgery and props to y'all. Oh yeah. Yeah, and my sister. Oh yeah. Technically, my sister's watching. And Nate's sister. Yeah. My sister's. Yeah, Casey. I'll catch you my kids tomorrow while I actually get surgery. But yeah, Eric will be available to help on them, sure, whenever. Yeah. You know, nights and weekends. If for some reason I need help, I should be, I don't know. Again, I don't know. I don't know what's happening. But Julia, I know Julia's doing a lot. So. Yes. Definitely mad props to her. All right, folks. Well, thanks for tuning in for this episode of the Nintendo Prime Podcast. Remember, you can catch this podcast, audio form early next week. If you obviously are listening to it now and you're not already, subscribe for $5 on Patreon.com. You can get every podcast, most every podcast. Sometimes, like the E3 one, that one wasn't early. But most every podcast, you can get a day early audio version, exclusively on Patreon for $5 and up backers at patreon.com slash Nintendo Prime. Otherwise, you can also get our audio version on iTunes, on Google Play, on Podbean, and on Anchor, and eventually SoundCloud. Whenever I get it figured out. Y'all see some of these costs money. Like SoundCloud costs money. Podbean costs money. I don't have all the money in the world over here. But I try to make it happen. Bring our podcast to as many people as possible. Otherwise, you could always just catch this video version almost every single Monday. Yeah. I say almost, because like the E3 podcast came on a Thursday. It was recorded on Tuesday. There it is. We almost made it. Thank you for subscribing to Nintendo Prime. We almost made it. Make sure to like and subscribe to this one, folks, after I just made your ears bleed. I want to thank Mark Greenberg for being on his first ever Nintendo Prime podcast. Thank you so much, Mark. And for me. I'm all the time here. Yeah, all the support. He's been a $20 plus backer for quite a while, but never actually been on the podcast until now. So glad to get him in before the old surgery. I want to thank Eric over here. Hope all of you guys look forward to other videos we have coming because our E3 coverage is technically not done. When you listen to this, I still have more Impression videos to come out, including Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Just wait till you hear what I have to say about that. All right, folks. We'll catch ya. We'll catch you in the next one. And we're done. Yay. Nice. Are you yelling at me yet? No, I'm not in bed. I don't know. Well, she knew that. So, Nate, Eric, I'm gonna have to probably get out of here. I just want to say thank y'all for having me. Yeah, no problem. And also, I think y'all might have had one of the best ideas, 3D Super Mario Maker.