 Alright. Welcome everyone to the Indie contributors working group call for June 6, 2023. Today on the agenda we'll talk about any updates there might be on the sovereign node pipeline and then discussion about Indie community contribution I think will be the main part of the call and then any other topics that anybody would like to bring up as well. So let's see. I'm obviously recording this call and we'll post it right here on the meeting page. Later today. We have got the antitrust policy notice written here. We are following that on this call as well as the hyper ledger code of conduct, which is linked here. And I'll send out the. Wiki link. If you'd like to put your name on the attendees list, that would be wonderful. Let's see. I am not currently aware of any announcements with anybody. Does anybody have any announcements to give or introductions to make. Anybody would like to introduce themselves on the call. Or give announcements now would be a great time. People at the old link. So we're slowly coming into this meeting. Anybody is aware of. People who don't have the new link. Please let people know so that they can receive the calendar event. We'll try to try to make sure everybody gets that new link so that nobody's going to the old room. But yeah. Getting that done. Let's see. I'll send a link in the chat again so I can update my calendar. Yes, I will do that. Good idea. Yeah, I'll probably go back to the. This page calendar public meetings and then just resave the event for this call so. Yeah. All right. Let's see. So unless anybody has any announcements or introductions they would like to make before we get started. We can jump into our agenda. Up to any updates on the sovereign node pipeline. Wait. No, nothing to report. Unfortunately. Back to that very soon. No worries. Cool. Let's see. So the next thing on our agenda. Stephen was going to lead this discussion. I think he's still in the old zoom room, helping people get some get to the new zoom. So we can wait for. Wait for him to start that conversation. Let's see. And there he is. Hello again, Steven. Hello there. Cool. Yeah, we'll, we'll try our best to get the new zoom link propagated everywhere. But let's see. So we have. And we have, we have made it to this item in the agenda. So I can turn it over to you. Would you like to screen share? Yeah. What, where are we in the agenda? The discussion about in the community contribution that you mentioned. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm not going to screen share. Okay. It's just what I wanted to talk about was, you know, we're, we're going to talk about, you know, as far as, you know, the well-known one sovereign ID union and DCO, candy, the Swiss EID and then Finney starting one. So we have at least those many. Obviously that gives us thousands interacting on those networks, issuers, holders and verifiers. We've got some that are supporting. We've got some that are not contributing directly, you know, not contributing directly to the code base too much, but tools, documentation, hosting community meetings, you know, all things like that, but, but very few actual contributors to Indy. And this has been sort of an ongoing theme. BC gov sovereign. And so we have a lot of contributions to that. But he said us had to. Back off their participant Institute for internet security we had for a while, Robyn Clemens, did, did a lot of contributions. Bosch has done contributions, but, but basically it's right up to the point that we have. Essentially BC gov and sovereign sponsoring Wade. Wade Barnes doing work. And that's about it. I'm trying to figure out why we're getting so little contributors and trying to sort of, you know, figure out how we can get more. You know, I think the reasons are that Indy deployments are. Indy's are utilities and therefore there's somebody else's problem. Everyone who's using them is working on their own set of challenges to do with deploying things. And Indy just works. It does all that is needed. I mean, it could use improvements. It could be easier to onboard. It could be easier to, you know, figure out endorsing and things like that. But people just sort of get past that. And it just works. So there's very little demand for new features. And no one is really driving the agenda. We don't have particularly a lot of committed, you know, funding. No real product owner other than those who need to accomplish something. And no one whose job is Indy. The core of Indy as far as I know. The only people whose jobs are Indy are those deploying it. So, so worrying about their own instance of it. So, I think we have to start thinking about, you know, why are there so few contributors and if there aren't going to be any contributors, what are we going to do? There aren't very many good options. Particularly for those types of communities that are interested in Indy. Other ledgers are not particularly appetizing. As far as I know, there's, Ion is the big one, Microsoft Ion. It doesn't at least yet have an on credit support and it's Bitcoin based. I mean, governments as far as I know are not going to want to sign into a ledger that is Bitcoin based. It's just not feasible. Cryptocurrency based ledgers, there's a whole pile of them, but it's a lot tougher to do that. And outside of that, there is, you know, governance issues, which, which is going to last. At least, you know, absolutely with Indy, we have control over it. We can deploy it, we can run it, we can bring on operators and so on. The only other one that I'm seeing is did web, but it brings its own range of problems. There's a whole bunch of issues, you know, calling home. So there's the issue of tracking robustness does, you know, who's operating it would would be inconsistent. Obviously not immutable subject to hacks, people could hack in and replace the did docs that are posted there. And for good and bad. It's built on the existing CA infrastructure. So I think we're doing the right things as far as as a community coming up with a roadblock. We've got key items to do. But we need investments in Indy. And I'm just trying to understand what, you know, what others feel about that and how, how they feel that we could not just have investment in the deployment of Indy, but actual investment in Indy itself. So with that, I just throw out for comments. Wait. One of the things I find there are, we get people every once in a while trying to help out on Indy. I think right now. Documentation isn't in a good state for people to help out. It's, it's kind of old and outdated and things like that. I'm wondering if a document refresh would be a good idea, sort of a, you know, having a good getting started guide and various things on it of, of how we, how we can move. And then maybe come up with some, you know, simpler tasks that we want to do that we can add to the, you know, good first issues list and things like that. Yeah. And that is something that we as, you know, all of us are capable of doing. So that is a good one. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like somebody just reached out about that from the mentorship program as well. So that's great. Someone who might even be on the call today. Oh, right. Agnes. Is that you? Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that'll be great. And, and I think. No plan on where suggested in those are both Python. Heavy. So that'll be great. Thank you. Thank you. Any other thoughts from anyone on that? Hello Bruno from ID lab. Sorry, my camera is not working. Yeah. I mean, we noticed and I've been, we've been talking with Wade about that. And I had some hope to, to get funding for a furthering. For example, the monitoring part of Indy because it's one thing to have it deployed, but yes, Wade. No, I was just agreeing with you. Sorry. Yeah. And my point is I'm trying to push something through the ID lab channels right now in that direction. And I understand totally where you're sitting. I mean, people see that as just infrastructure and just works. So knowing really interest, but I mean, we have, we're going to have to, to put some effort into. I mean, raising awareness about that it might just work, but it's like the rest, if you don't maintain it, it's going to fall on the wayside eventually. Yeah. I mean, that's a crucial component of it. So it's not insignificant. And I'll actually add that to my notes that there has been, that's been one of the larger contributions lately has been, you know, the, the ID union work in, in containerizing and then the sort of work that's been going on has been excellent. But that still doesn't. It still leaves that hole that the actual, you know, in the software itself is, you know, needs, needs to move forward. Right. I'm resisting. I was trying to do a Nathan. I was trying to do a full Nathan, but I couldn't do it. There was silence. Char back to you. Okay. Cool. Let's see. So those were the main things we had on the agenda today. I know in, in previous calls, we have spent time going over issues and PRs in node and plenum, which I think has been really helpful. So we could continue doing that. I know that we only got a little ways into the issues on. Indie plenum. So we could, we could revisit that as well. I think there are some, some open PRs on Indie node that potentially we could discuss. Merge or close, but are there other things that people wanted to bring to the call today? So let's see. I think we. On issues on Indie plenum. I think two weeks ago we started. From the earliest ones. Adding the discussing label. Yeah. Wait, do you think it's a good use of time to go over these on the call? Could go through a few more. Cool. Sounds good. Where do we want to start? Let's see. I think we were, we were starting from the earliest. One. So. These all look like about. Three years old. I think we added good first issue tags on them. So. Those are probably good ones to keep open unless others have, have thoughts on what to do with them. I think we added that. Two weeks ago. Okay. So we went over those recently and decided to. Leave them open. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's investigate and fix possible client node related exceptions. Leakage. Into node, node processing. Is anybody familiar with this issue? I can say that I mean. Looking at the logs of running in the node week. We saw them, but we never knew that they were actually. They shouldn't be there, but I can say you that if you look at the log of a running node, you're going to have those. Yes. So. That's happening in at least in the. The version that's running on the, on Ubuntu 16. Okay. Good to know. So probably a good one to keep open potentially. Maybe adding the discussing label to it. Yeah. Cool. It does still exist. I'm just reading some of the details in the link. Okay. So. It can happen in cases where there's. There's one particular case that happens fairly regularly on the sovereign network. New nodes. So we wanted to add discussing. Document question for request handling. Looks like that was marked as a. Good first issue. Does anybody know about the. There's an answer actually back if you go back one back to the previous page. Okay. We just haven't. Updated the. The text. So. Okay. Documentation updates to do there. Cool. Good to know. Okay. It says document on it. Yeah. Okay. Incorrect. Okay. So. It says view change messages consensus calculating. Yeah. Okay. So everything that's in place right now is just a workaround for this issue. Okay. Or could as help wanted. I mean, I, I'm not that. In sync with the code base, but when you say help wanted. I mean, you have a, you have a workaround, but you need to, you're searching for a real solution. Is it. Yes. Correct. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Dependency on indi SDK with indi. BDR. This says. Still needs to be done, doesn't it? We didn't do anything with this and any other code with us. Even. I don't, I think. This is my memory. The, the moves from. Indi SDK to indi BDR has been in terms of the code with us was more on. The area side, but. Yeah. So this is still a. Thing. Cool. Frozen ledgers should propagate to new nodes in the pool. Let's see. Okay. That hasn't been done. What is the use of a frozen ledger? So the only real use case for it at the moment is to. If we wanted to get rid of the token ledgers. So that it's. In sovereign based networks. So basically what it allows you to do is it allows you to freeze the network in time so that it's. State root hash doesn't change. Anymore. Or more like it's fixed. So whether or not the. Whether or not. The. Ledgers are there anymore. The state root hash for those letters as. What the value is when it was frozen. Okay. That allows you to then. Either delete. Delete the ledgers. The, the corresponding ledgers or add nodes. To the, to the pool that don't. Don't do. Don't contain those plugins. So it's, it's a fairly limited use case. But it can come in handy. Okay. So this would be like a low prior, like a probably a very low priority. Yeah. Okay. So. Sorry to say that again, what priority would you put this way? I put it as a low priority. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Should I market as such or. I mean, should we just close it? It's unlikely to get done. And. Yeah, I don't. I'm hesitant to close it because it is, it is a thing. Yeah. Okay. Put it, put it to low. Put a, do we have a label for low priority? I'll make, I'll make. Sounds good. But you're 20.04 migrate the code base. From 1604 to 20.04. Would this be completed based on the acceptance criteria? Yes. Cool. Great. But you're 20.04 creates CD for Ubuntu 20.04. Scroll up to the top. Yeah, that's done. Cool. I like it when things are done. Great. You're not closing them. Oh, I see. So wait's doing it. Yeah, I just need to catch up. So 20.04 migrate code base. I'm all excited to see the code closes happening, but I can't. Now you can. Now I'm catching up. That one got closed. Update pigments module. It's done. Nice. I see Q is getting huge. See. It looks like there's potentially a plan. But not an implementation yet. Has anyone else seen this? I see it as when I get. What I've been calling my. Infinite view change issue that I see. It starts to really. Load up that queue and make the, make it huge. Okay. You want help wanted. Sounds like a good tag for this one. Yeah, this is, this is still an issue. Okay. Unfortunately, very familiar with that one. Yeah. So you fix issue with devian package checks. Some is changing with each build. Yeah. That's the one I just marked as helpful on that. Okay. Great. So that's a CI CD one, right? As opposed to, you know, Python. Yes. That's maybe, maybe flag a CI CD as another label. Okay. Let's do that. Yeah. Upgrade rocks DB. Let's see. So if you. Looks like it. Upgrade and unpin that remaining dependencies. Oh, what were you saying? I just laid the wrong thing. That's the one I want to do. Rocks DB. Yeah, that's the one issue. Upgrade. Unpin remaining dependencies. That's still an issue. There's still some pin dependencies in there. Get have actions. Yes. Enhancements. This one probably still help wanted. Yes. I'll also assign it to myself because there's some updates. Cool. This is related to. One of the other issues that we had. Okay. Test new view combinations test fails with some seeds. Oh, I just added that as helpful. Okay. Great. Virtual development environments to the. Upgrade branch. So history on this one is. Currently right now, the Indie, Indie node. In Indie plenum packages use the system. The system Python version. Which in some ways limits, which operating system you can deploy it on. Due to the default. I found versions that are packaged with certain certain OSes. So one of the thoughts was to. Set up node and plenum to use a virtual Python environment so that it's not, not as dependent. It's not dependent on the OS. That uses its own. I still think that's a good idea. But that requires work. So, okay. So. So I think we personally, I think we should still do that. Development environments, not deployment environments. Sorry, this one is actually done. Different issue. Sorry. Okay. Do you know if there is an open issue for deployment environments? Good question. I don't see one. So. I think we should add it to node. Okay. Cool. Let's see. Details on curbs the MQ. So this has been sitting for over a year and nobody's answered it. Close it as a stale issue. Probably. I think the person may have. I don't think we have one. I think we need to add more noise since then if they, if they still were curious. Closed. Cool. We need to add them in here as well. We do or we don't. Do. I don't think we have one. Oh yeah. Do we. Assign it to me. Amazingly enough, we don't have one. Okay. Assign it to me. That's the expertise. That's pretty funny way. What? Nothing. Freshness check triggers one audit transaction per ledger. Yeah. I mean, we talked about this one, but I believe we didn't do anything about it. So. No, we haven't done anything about it. So keep it and. We leave it. Myself. Cool. Last one. Probably rocks to be. But these are both ones you just assigned to yourself. Cool. Stay open. That is the CI CD issue. Cool. Well, I think we post. Five or so. We're on one page. With issues, which is good. Let's see. And so it sounds like we want to open. An issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to do that. Okay. Great. Yeah. Sorry. I'm discovering that. And that, that's definitely a new big question, but I mean, what's the difference between the Indian node and Indian plan. Repositories exactly. Or how did you and Daniel describe the relationship? And so any, any platinum is sort of the, the, the main plumbing for. For indy node. And then indy node is the. Where you sort of implement the. The. Concrete implementations of what's defined in plan. I think plan is the, is the consensus algorithm. And so those core parts of, of the consensus. And then no, I think. Implements the. You know, things like the processing of requests. Okay. Passes to plan them for the consensus part. Yeah. They were. So you would implement new transactions and various things in node. Okay. And then the support for transactions and generals and plan them. Okay. Okay. So basically plan is building a package or a library that's used by node. Okay, thanks. Yeah. Agnes, not to put you on the spot, but if you do have any questions, as you're getting started on documentation, feel free to stop any time to, to ask them. Sure. I'm still getting the handle with. Absolutely. Okay. And discord, the discord channel is, is another great place. If one questions come up. So. Let's see. All right. Yeah. So I think we've, we have gone through all of the issues on node and plenum. We closed all of the open pull requests on plenum. And there are a few open on node. But I think for these were. Either we know that they are. They need more review or discussion. So we have talked about all of these. Would it be worth revisiting any of these to see if we can. Merge or add specific comments to any of them. What was that wit? I said possibly. There's just a few. Do we know if, if these documentation updates. From. No, they haven't moved forward at all. Okay. I had a chance to. Review those or. I know I haven't. Okay. Cool. So I think, yeah, we can probably. Leave all of these since we have talked about them before. But I think that is. We've certainly gotten these numbers down quite a lot. In the past week, seven months. So. Great. Let's see. Are there other agenda items that anybody would like to bring up on the call? All right. I hope that was a sufficiently long pause. Thanks everyone for joining. And. We'll see you all in two weeks. Thank you.