 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Thousands of farmers are again coming to Delhi on 29th and 30th of November. It's going to be a replication of Kisan Long March of Maharashtra. Today we are joined by P. Sainath, founder editor of Pari, to discuss about the issue. He was also one among the first persons to give a call for Long March to Delhi. Welcome to NewsClick, Sainath. So let's start with the background of this entire march. I remember you writing an article on the Global India where you called for a special parliamentary session to be held on the issue of agrarian crisis. So where did this idea of Long March originate? All of us were incredibly inspired by the Long March from Nashik to Mumbai. That was a really Long March. 182 kilometers where 40,000 Adivasi farmers, poorest of the farmers, really marginal organized by the All India Kisan Sabha, marched on their demands from Nashik to Mumbai a week, one week. And one of the things that we saw there which was unusual as compared to earlier marches, having lived 36 years, been based 36 years in Mumbai. It was the first time we saw the middle classes come out in large numbers to support in thousands, in sympathy and empathy with the farmers who had come there. These were very poor farmers. They touched the conscience of the Mumbai city. And their demands were reasonable and they also reached out to the middle classes by marching at the dead of night on the last night so as not to disrupt the board exams in the town of Mumbai. And I think people really appreciated that and responded with warmth and generosity. They came there with water, with food. People came and gave free pairs of chappals because there were so many thousands who had no footwear. When we saw that, the middle classes had not been mobilized for that. When some of us saw that, we thought this should be happening in Delhi. And so a group now the call for the march on November 29th and 30th that is given by the All India Kisan Sangarsh Coordination Committee. Sir, a group of around 180 farm organizations. Maybe almost 200 I believe farm organizations big and small. Our role as middle class professionals etc. was how do we reconnect? Maybe the opportunity has come to reconnect the middle classes with the primary classes and workers. In September you had a march which were of the All India Kisan Sabha where you had farmers, workers and agricultural workers. And just one day before that was women's march in Delhi. So why can't we bring all these together and bring the middle classes in was an idea. And I think there is some sensitivity growing around the country to this. A middle class platform sprang up in solidarity. Nation for farmers. Within this there are people who are doctors lawyers, teachers there have been groups forming in Hyderabad, Bengaluru, Chennai techies for farmers students they might wear their separate arm bands or headbands or t-shirts but they will come as nation for farmers as the main banner in front. That will be the, that's the idea. And when I've been visiting the college campuses etc. there has been a very good response to it. Though of course there are two problems. One is the elections being around the same dates from neighboring states where many more people would come and exams beginning on the 28th. So let me come back to the issues on which these mobilizations are happening. So it still remains the minimum support prize and loan waiver. What are the other things that you are demanding apart from? There is more than that. The minimum support prize and the loan waiver are the core of two bills that have been crafted by the All India Kisan Sangharsh Coordination Committee which must be passed. Which came out of the mobilization that happened last year? That must be passed and I believe a large number of political parties have signed on saying that they support this demand and that they will pass these bills. But there is also the larger crisis. I mean the agrarian crisis is also an agroecological crisis. It's a question of women's rights in farming. It has issues related to the agrarian crisis. There is apart from a loan waiver a larger credit structure and public responsibility for that. There are questions of what kind of agriculture do we want 20-30 years from now? What about the pending issues of land reform? In the first of the Swaminathan Commission or National Commission for Farmer Reports was given in December 2014. For 14 years 5 reports have lain in parliament without 1-hour discussion. 5 reports, 6 volumes. But when it comes to the GST for the corporate world a joint session of parliament is called in no time and held at midnight with the President of India there. Surely you can find some time for the farmers of your nation who have been in crisis unending and ever escalating crisis for 20-25 years now. So that is the point that in that 3 week session should be where you pass the 2 bills you discuss the Swaminathan report, you discuss the women's rights and entitlements and try passing a bill on that you discuss the mega water crisis and take a position on whether water is a fundamental right or a commodity. So there are and let victims of the crisis address parliament and the nation through that. So let's come to the organization of the march because if we look at Kisan Long March it's a lengthy process it took place 3 months before the march actually started. I think 2-3 years. But the entire process took 3-4 months assembling food, convincing people to arrange food and all. So what's the plan when it comes to the Delhi Chalo March? There are several groups as I said there are well over 100 odd groups in the world and now the middle class is coming in. The logistics are going to be very complex but then each group also looks out for itself the Delhi government the Delhi government, Mr. Kejriwal's government has promised the creation of toilets and stationing of ambulances and will perhaps help with water also and some of their individual members of that government their individual capacity are trying to contribute to the food packets that are required and others too you know maybe the hawkers federation others will all come in to provide something at cost that kind of talk and discussions are going on so we think this will happen. So it's doctors for farmers students for farmers have you also reached out to other political parties? and got them to sign on to the idea of those two bills we as nation for farmers which is we are not the people who are the organizers of the march we are a solidarity group we are a solidarity group we have created a petition to the president of India calling for that special session it's online we have a dedicated website dillichalo.in and anyone can go up and sign it there in different languages it's there in several languages so you can sign it now in the dillichalo.in there is also the updates on where it is at because people are bogged down in elections in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh things are happening now one of the things that's happening everywhere people keep asking me how is it relevant to all over Maharashtra Aurangabad, Marathwara Vidarbha, Nashik Vangana, Mehbubnagar kids are dropping out of college in university as the drought bites in already their parents who are farmers have been bankrupted by the agrarian crisis of the last 20 years now the drought means they have no crop there are dozens and dozens of kids in the universities of Pune and in the worst still in the privatized universities private universities of Pune are unable to pay their hostel fees their mess fees, their tuition fees in complete dilemma and demoralization over what to do these are so directly linked to the agrarian crisis right so I find that there is a great degree of sensitivity in that and I think you are going to also see the retired servicemen's groups which came out in September 5th they will also in my opinion the pensioners, old pensioners of pensioner Parishat they will also be joining this march in fact one of the things that I found in the last several years I have been talking at the military colleges war college in Hyderabad the military defense college in Mohove in Delhi the military college and I find that army personnel are extremely sensitive to the agrarian crisis because your Javan is a Kisan in uniform right so that's you will find a very great diverse spectrum of people but it's very important that this march of the 29th and 30th is a beginning not a culmination and I am finding everyday people are telling me we have formed this group in Sikhandrabad we have formed this group in Patna we don't even know all the groups it shows that there is some kind of ferment so after the 30th we held a group meeting in Pune nation farmers veteran socialist Babadav came I didn't phone him up I didn't he came there and he told me he said he told the crowd I am very pleased that we are doing this but he told me I will not forgive you you stop this after 30th so coming to the last question you already said that this is not going to be the end and there are programs which are going to be held in future also so what are the things if this doesn't work out what are the next step and second what's an appeal that you would like to leave this interview on? the first thing I mean I really want to appeal to all news clicks readers viewers those who live in the national capital region those who live nearby and those who don't live nearby but who can come to Delhi come there what is the aim of it you know we don't believe that any one march or any one rally will yield a transformational result it's a process the people who came to Mumbai they had their demands most of their demands accepted and they still have to fight every day to see them implemented that is one but we think that simply the holding of a special session of parliament on an issue of poor people that will be a historic preceded now I don't expect that they will immediately do it there obviously this parliament will already be in session when this comes but we are demanding that every MP who claims to be pro-farmer let him come and sign the petition for the special session let him or her march with farmers towards boat club or wherever they will stop it that's that's one thing second I think what makes this different from the earlier marches from the September 5 which was a wonderful event August 9 2017 yeah so what makes this different is that you are broadening the spectrum to bring in the middle classes the working class a lot of people who don't go to rallies and political meetings and things like that so on on it's like what Baba Adav said I will not forgive you if you stop on the 30th now what has happened is without much you know too much from us groups have formed, Patna has formed nation for farmers meeting on 23rd Bangalore convened 3 meetings and the last meeting was there made one of Karnataka's most famous progressive writers Bharaguru Ramchandrappa the convener and the very simple democratic process I think it's also good in a boost to democratic you know discussion and functioning what we do is whoever comes for the convening meeting is part of the convening committee they formed they choose their convener none of us will interfere in that so you will get diverse groups and chapters in different places many of whom I don't know we are finding it hard to keep pace and write that now the thing is that the middle classes begin a talking to farmers and about farmers that you know I think if lawyers if now students for farmers the WhatsApp groups are buzzing DU for farmers it's WhatsApp group for us so likewise in other professional and other occupational groups the process in the last 30 years if I ask a supreme court lawyer or I ask a well known journalist when did you last sit down and talk to a farmer or a labourer there is an embarrassed sheepish silence which I have found at every meeting of the middle class that I have spoken on this subject restoring that atomization that neoliberal economic policy has brought driving us very far away from the miseries of the countryside the labourer the farmer that and now the industrial worker coming in it creates a very different discourse that the word farmer agrarian crisis labourer women's rights all these things start coming together so we believe nation for farmers will continue on the initiative of those who form those groups and there will be some universities teachers students will be talking to farmers about farmers and thereby changing our own consciousness my appeal is this is not the culmination it's a beginning come there and you will leave from there with a different way of thinking that's all the time we have to design we will be following the march closely and we will cover it extensively thanks a lot thank you for watching NewsClick