 Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the virtual conference by Entrepreneur India under our resilient series. In this series, we talk to business captains who have shown the resolve to fight back the COVID pandemic. I am Saurav Kumar, editor of Special Project Entrepreneur India, your host and moderator for the session. Well, the COVID-19 outbreak has definitely affected all economies and all businesses across the globe. The enormity of the crisis has humbled even the most powerful of nations and businesses. Well, while the world is looking for solutions to fight the coronavirus, businesses are trying to get back on track. But for that to happen, businesses will need to utilize this downtime to reaping and re-strategize the ground running for the crisis. So, in this series, we talk to entrepreneurs who are adapting and staying above the water. To start with, I'll first lay out the rules for our attendees today. The panel discussion will go on for 45 minutes. This will be followed by a Q&A session for the next 15 minutes. If you have any questions during the course of the discussion, you can post them through the Q&A option. We will take our questions, post the final discussion. We would also like to request the attendees to keep the questions within the scope of the discussion here today. Now, let me introduce our special guest for today. I have with me Mr. Gaurav Chopra, Founder and CEO of IndiaLens. Hi, Gaurav. We have Mr. Ashut Gupta, Founder and CEO of ClearTax. Welcome, Archit. And we also have Mr. Sushant Kumar, co-founder and CTO of RazorPay. Welcome, Sushant. So, to start with, you know, I would just state a fact and then we'll take it forward. So, you know, as for a NASCARM survey, you know, 70% of the startups have less than three months of financial runway and almost 65% will be affected due to COVID. So, I mean, coming from different, of course, all in the fintech space, but you have different verticals of operation. So, I would first want you to take a couple of minutes each and start with Archit. You know, to tell us that what was the biggest challenge that you found when this entire episode started and how did you tackle it? Right. So, Gaurav, I think one of the interesting things which suddenly changed was like, obviously, the demand side for us slowed down for a few days and then it started ramping back up again. So, it was very interesting to see this, like, oh, we have to suddenly change and everything is changing, behavior change within employees, behavior change within customers in every way. So, now, like, our old way of operating and decision making was no longer good. We had to, like, react every day and every alternate day and, like, so I think it completely changed how we were operating, like, in terms of, like, in terms of, like, the management team in terms of the core team and so on and so forth. So, that was one big change. The second was, like, I think we were fortunate and very grateful that we had, like, we continued to have enough money in the bank and that helped us avoid, like, all sorts of the sort of pain that most people were feeling in this COVID time. Like, and the third part was, like, I think, like, it really has helped us, like, the COVID scenario actually in a very positive way. I think our focus, our strategy, has sharpened tremendously. Our financial planning has sharpened tremendously. So, I think, like, it was a bit humbling to see, like, oh, we could be maybe 5x more efficient and we have, like, okay, like, lesson learned and we became more efficient and, like, we optimized so many things and we learned a lot about ourselves as a team, as a company and so that was the fun part, I think. And I think, just commenting on the NASCOM survey and other parts, like, I think it's truly, like, truly a tough time because I think, I've been talking to a bunch of startup founders where even the disruption on the supply side is there for people who have demand and for people who have demand, like, people who don't have demand because the world is off. I think just having enough, like, any mechanisms which get people past, like, 5, 6 months will be good in this time because I think once people make it past, like, there's a lot of opportunities, behavior changes happening very, very rapidly and I feel like it's a fantastic time to be an entrepreneur, fantastic time to be running a company because, like, on the other side of this, like, I feel like it's very, very exciting so I actually feel a good opportunity for, like, digital focused startups which are, like, all of us, like, technology startups and, like, and we are primarily built and delivered on the cloud, on the mobile and so, like, I think there's a lot of opportunity, people just need to survive this and come out of this. I think some traditional sectors or, like, sectors which are, like, in the travel space or hospitality space, I think those may need a rethink, but, like, from a fintech perspective and from a SaaS perspective, great, great time ahead. So I think that would be my two sides. I think I would believe that, you know, it has already worked as a catalyst to whatever adoptions, work-tending or people were thinking of delaying they have, you know, kind of, like, got a welcome, come to you for your observation when all this started and how did you, kind of, first reaction, first move on how did you start it back then? So in hindsight, you know, we did three things as soon as the news of the pandemic and the whole lockdown started to break out and those three things were firstly, you know, making sure that all our employees are safe, our work environment is such that, you know, people, you know, don't feel that they need to come to office or they need to, you know, threaten their health while doing the jobs. I'll come back to that. Second part was rationalizing all costs that we felt were not necessary and most of those were the variable cost and then, you know, renegotiating some of the fixed ones. And third one was looking at what opportunity there is directly for our sector. I've seen a lot of companies move into, you know, parallel paths and going into groceries and healthcare deliveries. Our view was that, you know, our core is fintech, our core is lending. They are for sure a lot of opportunities there. How do we, you know, make the best of that? So, you know, coming back to each of these, I think right before the lockdown got announced, you know, the state governments had started making plans for partial shutdowns, advisories were out and we moved fast on that. We made sure that our entire staff was A, available with laptops. B, you know, for most of them, there were dongles that were available. Our ISO team stepped in, made sure that all our data security protocols were met. And I think a day before this was on a Saturday, we decided that, you know, Monday onwards, let's have everybody working from home. A week, 10 days before that, you know, we had half our teams working from home on alternate days. So I think that worked well. Lockdown got announced on a Sunday and, you know, luckily we were prepared so that disruption on the work front doesn't happen. The second thing that happened, which, you know, we thought would take some time, but happened almost immediately, was that there was a massive impact on both the demand and the supply side of credit. Now, supply, you know, being in the lending business coming from a lending background is something that we are aware of that, you know, cycles do happen. In fact, you know, when a cycle was not happening, people were wondering that, you know, when is the next cycle that's going to happen? Right. So it is, it is quite a cliche that, you know, five years passed by without any recessionary environments coming, people start questioning the environment overall. So from that standpoint, we were prepared that, you know, supply will come down, but it came down almost immediately. And the reasons were very clear, right? So most lenders were not sure that how would COVID impact the ability of borrowers, you know, whether there would be unemployment rises, whether there would be job losses, sustainability of people. At the same time, they were not sure that, you know, if everybody is going to be at home, why is there a demand for a loan coming in? You know, it makes sense if it comes from a small business, it comes from somebody who is, you know, a warrior in front or is running a grocery or a healthcare shop. But, you know, on the salary front, why are people, you know, taking loans? Nobody's going to get a home refurbishment done or plan a holiday for that matter. Right? So that supply stopped. At the same time, we saw, you know, demand getting muted as well. And for that reason, you know, we thought that okay, the next thing is that we need to manage all our costs. There is no point in, you know, going after a big marketing activity given that, you know, cost requires by far the lowest that we have seen in the last five to seven years. But, you know, we felt that it's the right time to stop any unnecessary spending. So that included marketing spending, that included any projects which were going to re-benefit, let's say, nine to 12 months later. So that had, that was done immediately. Rends were re-negotiated. Wherever, you know, we could re-negotiate agreements, we did that. It also meant that a few of our family at India Lens had to part ways with us. And, you know, we felt that for the benefit of the entire organization, that was the right thing to do. And, you know, timely action was taken so that, you know, we do it in one go as opposed to staggering it so that people don't, you know, feel that there is a constant knife on their head. So we did it in one go. Third, and, you know, I would say the exciting part of, you know, this was focusing on things that we felt would be the new normal, right? And we hear about it almost every day now that digital is the new normal. And in lending, you know, that had actually started months, years back where you could actually give out loans without meeting the person, without having to speak to a person. And we put that into a live mode. So we got a lot of our lenders who are now lending on our platform, even though at smaller volumes where a customer can come in, he can borrow money without having to speak to any of our agents or without having to meet anybody in person. Alongside, we felt that, you know, we have a huge base of users. And these users could benefit from products such as health insurance, COVID insurance, and also giving them knowledge about, you know, things like the moratorium, which are to be honest, you know, even somebody who's worked in the banking industry takes some time to actually go through what is included, what is not reading the fine print. So, you know, making sure that our customers get to hear about this from us and get some expert advice. So that's what we did on the product side. And these are the three things, you know, that we did right up front. I understand a lot of hard decisions have to be taken by a lot of companies and rightly so because, you know, once it survives, maybe we can see another thing. Shashank, for you, especially for payments, you know, ice twinkle, whenever these kind of things happen, because we all move towards even people who are not there, they move towards payments. So what has been your opinion? Sure. So, definitely, I mean, the whole thing has a huge shock for everyone in the company, right? As and when the news spread and, you know, came to know what all is happening. The first, the immediate reaction was, okay, this is a massive change, this is going to have a huge impact, right? And we'll have to change the ways we have been working primarily, right? So that itself, you know, cost for a lot of realignment, right? We have to figure out every process that we have in the company, how it will work in a remote environment. So, you know, from onboarding to training to support and ops to any kind of, you know, customer awareness that we are driving, everything has to happen remotely. That was a huge mentorship. And we are still doing that. I mean, we are still getting more efficient on that front. So as, you know, of course, I mean, immediately everyone realized that business is going to fall down a cliff, at least in the short term, right? So we observed, I mean, overnight revenue is reducing by almost 30 to 40%. And that was again, a huge, you know, thing to take on. I mean, that was again, a huge realization for everyone. Then the second thing, and as, I mean, as this happened, then we talked to, I mean, we think of ourselves as index of the economy, you know, because we work with all the sectors that are there and pretty much can observe the growth and decline in every sector. So when we started talking to our customers around this, we then realized we are way more fortunate than most of the people out there, you know, because a lot of our peers in the travel industry, travel industry, it's gone to zero, events has gone to zero, hospitality has gone to zero. So, I mean, there's a lot of pain that is going to happen, right? And that is happening. And that kind of, you know, set the tone inside the company that look, I mean, we are comparatively in a fortunate situation, you know, we still have decent runway. So with that shock out of the system initially, then we, and with the realization of how our customers are getting impacted, right? Then we moved on to, okay, what can we do in the COVID environment that is happening, right? So, so while the central government is driving a lot of initiatives to, you know, to contribute to PMKs fund and to help, you know, people get getting kids and everything, we focused a lot on how we can support on the ground effort, that is to support supporting different segments during COVID, right? So we, we helped a lot of NGOs almost, I think, almost 600 to 700 self-help groups, social initiatives and NGOs to collect donations at a very, at a very good pace, right? So we helped them create their online pages immediately overnight. We helped them distribute those pages in their communities or social media or different channels that are there. Then we forego our fees and we help them get the money to them instantly as soon as payment happens, they get the money and they can start utilizing it for whatever vendor payments, whatever material procurement they need to do for those kind of things, right? And I think over past month, we have contributed almost 20 to 25 share worth of donations that we have collected and these are all, these are all, you know, small NGOs and groups that are there to help facilitate this ability, right? Then I think recently, we also launched our partnership with Facebook, which is specifically allocated to donations. So we are working with Facebook to onboard a bunch of NGOs on the platform. At this point, I think they are more, we have onboarded more than 100 NGOs on Facebook and we are trying to help these NGOs collect donations through Facebook's distribution channel. Facebook brings in a tremendous amount of distribution that is there, a lot of users in the ecosystem and they can now create campaigns for the initiatives that they are concerned about in their city, in their locality and try and help in whatever ways they can. So that was more from the perspective on what we have been trying to do in the ecosystem. Then lastly, I think in the past few weeks, as everyone has realized how things have been in the COVID world and now we are focusing on industries which are in some sense positively impacted, industries like education, gaming, different kinds of insecurities and broken in general. So we are trying to help some of these industries. They are seeing the spike in business data and how they can handle it and what kind of processes they can set up because a lot of these companies have offline processes as well. From payment collection point of view, from banking point of view, we are trying to see how we can help them automate those aspects and do it with software tools instead of relying on manual processes that are there. And lastly, I think now from our own product portfolio, we are seeing that quite a few of our products are getting a significant amount of interest. We have payroll product that is there and we are seeing significant interest from the SME community because typically something like payroll runs manually through people, through offline channels that is there. And again, there are a lot of scopers added in those things. And now as people are moving remotely, they again want to see how they can support these aspects in a more automated fashion. Then on the lending side, the supply has definitely come down significantly. But we are still trying to facilitate as many loans as possible through our platform. So we have tabs with various NPSCs and banks that are there. And all of them while definitely the pool available has gone down, but they're still open to lend with way more strict parameter. But we're trying to create awareness around those and seeing whatever help we can provide to these businesses for getting these credit lines and getting the short term loans that is there. We're seeing how much is possible. We're trying to make that happen. So a lot of behavior change that has happened for the businesses also who are now maybe did not have a kind of opportunity to maybe receive payments online or were not described. In this period, you see that behavior change a lot happening is what I would say. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll tell you that one shift that we are seeing is that a lot of traders, a lot of commerce companies which are primarily offline are now starting to come online because they see that as people are not going to go out of their house, they can still reach out to those customers over channels like WhatsApp and Facebook and things like that. And we are trying to set them up for success as much as possible in this environment and trying to take care of either deliveries that are happening, trying to take care. So to be honest, I mean, while these behavior changes will play out in the long term, at least in the short term, what we see really important is driving awareness and education around what actually is possible digitally. Because a lot of retailers that are there, a lot of businesses that are there are not fully aware of the strength of tools that are now available to be exploited digitally and how it helps you expand your business in a different way than what they are used to. On the consumer side, of course, I mean, in tier one already, the digital payments is penetrated significantly. But in tier three, tier four cities, we are seeing that there's a more demand that is happening right now. There's more people who are wanting to buy online than what was possible before, simply because, I mean, the logistics layer that is there, I mean, it's still working as locked on as partially lifted off. The logistics layer that is a delivery network that is still functioning the way it used to, of course, with reduced capacity. But for delivering any items that is essential or that is the need of the art, it is still possible to do so through those channels. And that is why a lot of customers are flocking online for appreciating these things than what we are seeing was a demand earlier, especially in tier three, tier four cities and in rural areas, starting us. Thank you. Thank you. Archit, I'll come to you. So, you know, talking about the new normal and the behavior change. So, as I would believe you were mentioning that in the MSMEs, they've taken up a lot of defining a lot. So, as Prashant said, that, you know, we'll see in the long term, how it stays or but in the short term, this is always something. So, what do you think? It's just a fleeting moment or is this going to be the way and what's the, what's the behavioral change that you are seeing with the pilot? Right. So, I think like, it's, it's, I think there is behavior change and with any behavior change, like, and we observe this in demonetization, we observe this in the launch of GST, for which we've built tools and technologies. There's a complete change in how businesses behave and there's like, there was one moment of digitization when GST came about for businesses for the first time, for many businesses, because they had to go digital for the first time and start recording data. The second one, like with COVID, like we are seeing, like, like, as many, many people are pointing out, like, businesses are no longer able to like, transact in person. Right. So, the one thing we saw was like GST billing, where businesses had to like, give a, give a invoice for collecting payments and like, the invoice itself has to be digitized. So, that was part number one. Earlier, people could do pen and paper or like, could meet in person and so some of that like has changed and the, so that's like, to us, like, very interesting because we don't see temporary change because we see, like, when we're talking to those customers, they are talking about like, order be WhatsApp, the order is coming on WhatsApp and we have to like, we have to, we are transacting with our customers online, they're sending the catalog pages to the customers on WhatsApp. So I think this is massively changing and they're saying, then, yes, we have to create a digital invoice earlier. I could like, like, some of them are saying, like, we'll write it on paper, send a photo, but then that's not very rich. Oh, let's try to use the software and let's use technology for this. So I think, like, the behavior is changing and will change. And I don't think it'll be a blip. I think it'll be like how people transact. And thus, the second part is like, and I do think after the lockdown opens up, like some of that normalcy will happen. But like, I think like, what we are observing is a clear pattern, like, our businesses, which have like the promoters or the teams below 40, like, I think that is where we are seeing the behavior change. And like, what we're seeing is South and West, from our data, South and West of India, adopting more compared to North. So I mean, that data is also reflecting the other big change we saw, which was like, which was like, due to lockdown, like, we have like, like, maybe 30,000 CF firms on our platform, which, which use our platform every day. We started seeing like 30% month on month growth on the numbers after lockdown started, like in the first two weeks, it was like March last two weeks, completely went down to zero. Because like, the people, people are like, dealing with the lockdown for the first time. And like, people are making sure people are safe, health is, health is important. After people are in lockdown. And I think like, like what we have seen is like, people are moving away from traditional tools on premise tools, like to the cloud. And we had a very high quality cloud SaaS mobile offering, which led to like, CA firms completely change behavior for themselves and now slowly changing behavior for their clients and so on and so forth. So what we are seeing is like, like, people are migrating data. So migrating data is a big step, right in terms of like, they had data in like some old on premise software, they're migrating data onto our free attacks platform, whether it's billing or whether it's like GST payment, GST filing, also all those kinds of things which people do. So, so I think like, I think the behavior is changing. Like, people are embracing like new tools, because I think MSME owners are very smart. Like, they understand like, they have to look for new channels of growth. I think for sectors, which are badly affected, I don't think like, I'm talking about those like, but like a CA is a professional life will go on, right, like they are serving clients. So they are like working the B2B businesses that we serve, like, are getting back to business like factories are slowly opening up, they are issuing invoices, they are to get back to collecting GST, paying GST, whatever it is that they do. So I think like, we are seeing like, change happening pretty rapidly. And like, I feel like it'll be a continued trend. And, and my belief is like, Indian businesses are very, very smart, they will adopt like tools like me, I don't, I don't have a point of view on which tools which will be India focused, India centric, but like tools which help them transact better, collect payments faster, send catalog out to customers and clients, like create invoices, do, do things online. I mean, like, I think the, the overall aspect, like in my mind, like what we have observed is below 40 age folks are completely changing their businesses. So like, our data is reflecting that very, very like significantly. And, and we are seeing like, the one of the key activities that we did, like, was around like, start a lot of education series, because people had a lot of time. So we ran like, a lot of like, educational parts about how to transform, how to do this differently. And you've seen a massive, like, update for that, like, like webinars, which we were doing, like had 30,000 attendees, which were like, when we first fell used to do it with 3000. So that, like, I think people have more time digitally and they're learning online. So I think, online learning also, I think positive trends on that. So these were, these would be my big observation on data change. Very interesting. So we're here at, you know, West and South, that's been more and below 40. I mean, I'm sure there must be some reasons and I'm just trying to focus on what has been your observation in terms of the previous thing, of course, right now, as you mentioned, that, you know, people will not be taking loans for travel, maybe, or, you know, weddings or something. So how is the dynamics changed, like the demand supply dynamics for loans has changed for me? And also, I would want to add one more thing here, that, you know, there is an RBI moratorium that was given. And then there are also, you know, under the fiscal stimulus plan, there are, there are many options for, you know, collateral fee loans, you know, how does that change optics for startup lending? So, you know, first coming to the consumer behavior change side. So our, you know, I'm going to be talking about the customers that we have seen our typical clientele is, I would say 60, 70% of our 10 odd million users are based out of the top 10 cities. So this is more the urban clientele that we have. And here, the one trend is very clear that, you know, there is a huge push towards savings towards investments, mutual funds, as opposed to spending, right? One reason is obviously that there are not many places to spend right now. But what we have seen is that a lot of people have started, you know, increasing their knowledge, increasing or educating themselves about online investing, going into the share market, how to, you know, go about SIPs. So that is a change, I think, which is a better thing for the country as well as we move or come back towards the savings led culture, especially in these testing times. I think this is there to stay, right? Because I think one part is that people realize that a vaccine will be coming in soon or a cure will be coming in soon. But at the back of everybody's mind is also that if that doesn't happen, you know, eventually life has to go on, businesses will open, consumers will start going out and the new normal could be living with the virus. In that case, people realize that, you know, the money that they have right now has to go a long way and hence savings is the way forward. So we've seen that shift happening with regards other consumerism driven things, you know, people have wherever they were able to even shop online right now, they've stopped shopping towards expensive things. It's moving more towards, you know, things that are necessary for sustainability, necessary for their survival. And that means that a lot of the luxury shopping, luxury driven things could take a hit, you know, in the short term. So that's on the consumer side. You mentioned moratorium. So that's been, you know, the idea was to provide flexibility to borrowers. My personal view on that is that it's not meant for everybody. And, you know, we've been advising people that if you have money in the bank, it's better to pay off your loans, better to give, you know, back your credit card debt, as opposed to offer moratorium, because, you know, you're not really putting a haul to the interest payments, it is just a delay or a, you know, a deferment, and that will come and bite you later on. So that was on the consumer side of things. For the banks, it is, or the lenders, it is actually coming as a big question mark that what is going to happen in June when the moratorium period ends. You know, just to give you some context, your default rates, which are categorized as, you know, people who have not paid back for 90 days or plus were ranging between 0.5% to let's say 7 or 8% depending on the lender, depending on the product. So for a very super prime bank customer, where, you know, the interest rates are let's say a 10 and a half percent of a home loan customer, the default rates were, you know, less than half of a cent for some of the consumer driven loans at higher interest rate that could range up to 6, 7, 8%. Now, when we look at the moratoriums that people have taken, the figures that come out are that between 30 to 70% people have opted for a moratorium, depending on what product they have taken or what book they are talking about. Now, imagine that 70% people in one book have not paid for two, three months, what is the expectation that they will pay when it comes to June or July or whenever, you know, the moratorium rate gets extended to. And that is a big fear in the views of the lenders and hence their collection strategies have to be changed. They are focusing on, you know, getting that book back as opposed to thinking about how do we get back into the lending market. So that is one big impact that, you know, a moratorium could have on the lenders and then their future supply also depends on this. So like we know, you know, banks are flushed with liquidity, that is, there is no problem there. But they are not lending right now because they don't know why the demand is there, unemployment concerns and so on. The NVFCs on the other hand are dependent on the banks to give them, you know, credit to lend further. And that will largely be dependent on how the NVFCs books play out, what kind of default rates they see or what kind of repayment rates they see when the moratorium period ends and things come back to normal. So there is a big question mark on that. I do believe that there is a decent amount of demand that will start building up again. And we have enough supply in the market as well. It is about, you know, who are the right suppliers and how do we match that demand in supply? And I'm sure over a period of time we'll be figuring that out. Okay. Your observation on this, you know, in terms of the legroom business, what do you think this is going to happen? Will it come for loans or will lenders be ready, happy to give them because they are seeing flights, flights, product flights, but you know, we need to see what actually happens in the market? No, definitely. Look, I mean, right now, the demand has definitely gone up, right? Because everyone, most of the SMEs want some support or some credit to tide over the crisis and come out on the other side with still a positive business on hand, right? But from the supply side, I mean, it's not that, I mean, you know, banks don't have the float or the capability to lend, right? But the ecosystem has become conservative, right? Because they don't know how, I mean, most of them, because the factories are shut, the immigrant labor has, I mean, migrated, right? I mean, so because of various factors, I mean, businesses are not in the best shape. And the lenders don't have visibility as to if they lend in this environment, then when will they get their money back, right? So there's lack of predictability in some sense, right? So, you know, we are seeing that little bit of lending is happening in certain sectors where they still are in lesser or rather positive impact, right? Because of the COVID, right? So there's some cross-receptor that is there or, you know, any kind of education initiative that is there. So some of these sectors are still seeing the loans being dispersed. But overall, there's a significant reduction, right? And that will continue to be for some time till things come back on track. Or at least people get visibility that look, I mean, you know, things are going to be better from here, right? And sentiment turns positive. That actually is very important. So I think with the, again, with the partial lockdown, getting partially lifted, you know, things, at least Ecom is coming back, you know, that is the view that we are getting in last three days. We have seen, you know, almost 30%, 30% uptick in the Ecom volumes, right? So if that continues for some time, then I think people will be more, I mean, banks and everyone will be more open to provide great support. But I think for next one, two months, it will continue to be a fight and beyond that, it depends how quickly, you know, we kind of jump back. I think that is where the government initiative that is there, right? I mean, the big stimulus package that is coming, that is where it's going to play a huge role and huge support for MSMEs that are there, right? And that's, and I think it, I'm sure, I mean, you know, folks are working on it, but there's a lot of expectation from the government that big stimulus package, I mean, will be distributed through appropriate channels and through efficient channels, right? And it ends up in the pockets of the businesses that are there so that, again, they can continue to pay all and everything for next two, three months and come out on the other side. Before I move to the next question that I have, I just request our attendees on Facebook as well who have been posting questions, who keep posting questions. We'll take those questions once we have through the discussion. Archie, I'll come to you, you know, so then a lot of my discussions with other startup owners, especially with the tech ones, again, one. So one observation has been that a lot of silos are getting broken down and people are collaborating and it's startup collaboration with a gaming platform or something. So that's both of them, you know, again, from this kind of collaboration. So do you think in the print tech space also, or otherwise, when we would kind of see these kinds of things or in the past one and a half months or two months, whatever you've been under this circumstance, have you already seen those kind of shifts happen? Right. So I think, like, I think definitely, like, I think, let me step back and I feel what will happen is like, in a few places consolidation should would start is my first view like cash rich startups or companies, whether traditional or startups will start consolidating by buying out, there'll be like very attractive MNA opportunities, which will start coming up. So I think like that will be number one, like in my mind, like the consolidation and partnerships, maybe the consolidation piece will look very, very interesting. It could be traditional, like banks may go out and buy print techs. I don't know how their MNA teams are thinking, but startups definitely like us are continuously evaluating MNA opportunities and we made one by six months ago, we purchased Carvey's business like two months ago, I think before the lockdown, even with the anticipation of the lockdown, we were like, we were buying that business, we continue to look for and we are evaluating a couple of buyouts. So I think like the, that will be one part and MNA will continue. The second part in partnerships, I think banks and print tech partnerships will go up because I think the, I think NVFCs are going to be under stress, right? So capital like, even when we are seeing like banks are approaching us for like, hey, can you help us reach these kinds of MSMEs for like a loan product because look, we have liquidity, we know that these are the customers you want to reach, can the internet and the digital platforms help us reach to these customers and for these reasons. So I think like it is as specific as we have these PAN numbers you want to reach, like it is as specific as that. So I think the print tech ecosystem will partner more deeply with banks because NVFCs I think will be under tremendous amount of pressure for the like three, six, 12 months. So I think software platforms and banks may talk directly. Now this could be in the form of like a clear tax partnering in the bank or a Google pay partnering with the bank, what have you, like it will be like that level collaboration. So I think we can see, I definitely think we'll see more of that. The third kind of partnerships I think, I think in the print tech side like agents and spaces will be usually software and like potentially like additional additions to learning. I think these those are the two big ones that I can think of like that we have seen like we have a very, very popular like course fair with Udemy for example, which we co-created and like it's it's we're certified maybe 10,000 accountants already accountants and CA firms. We are now certifying like over this year like 100,000. So I think learning I definitely see like a huge opportunity video based learning I think because people are now like they've adopted it wholeheartedly, whole wholesale like like when we do webinars on how to like handle money investing taxes during during these deadlines, we see like 50,000 people show up to this like so what to do with the RBI moratorium what to do like so the people are going digital. So I think like to me like those would be the three things like one would be MNA very rich MNA opportunities will be will be on the table. Second will be more print tech and bank because banks have like fundamental liquidity and and are like being also the stimulus packages will be like there will be a lot of great guarantees to banks and and the third one will be like maybe in my mind like e-learning and some of those things. So you talked about you know banks collaborating with Pintak I remember once upon a time when Pintak started coming and banks were the ones who were the most scared and they did not talk to them at all and then they tried all sort of things to match them but they could not and now we see the entire circle going back if that's going to happen. Yeah so I think like the joke is like first they fight you then they ignore you then they like they start with all of those phases and then and then they call you the incumbent right like it starts like so yeah I think I agree. Yeah all right what about you I mean what you how do you see things changing in terms of collaborations and everything happening you know. So I can't agree more with Arjit I think that is the way forward and you know when we talk about collaboration between specifically between banks and fintechs we've always known that and we've openly spoken about that you know it is not that fintechs and banks compete with each other they're actually collaborating and especially you know business models like ours where suppliers coming from banks and BFCs other fintechs a collaboration was always happening now I think it will happen at a much faster pace one is that you know fintechs do have probably more agile technology that banks or other bigger institutions take longer to build or develop and they can you know quickly use that I believe the user experience side of it has also been more robust and intuitive when it comes to you know younger companies and startups and that is where you know the whole new banking evolution is also happening and banks might find more value in that so you know can't agree more on the whole collaboration part consolidation I think is something that keeps going on but in testing times like this I think it's a great opportunity for both cash rich companies and companies that are struggling with their cash reserves I think they can the latter can look at the bigger companies as a way to not only sustain themselves but be a part of something which can be much much bigger at the same time you know bigger companies can benefit from you know the niche technologies or you know functionalities that have been built by the smaller ones so that also goes without saying it's I think I do see some of those conversations already happening in the market some companies have announced that some are you know like Arjun mentioned in the exploratory stages so that is that goes without saying that that is definitely going to happen so you know we'll start looking up so just before we start taking the question I thought of an idea they've seen a shift that you know people are collaborating different from different participants so what's your view or have you already started seeing that kind of change you know where different cops can come together to put up a new shift you know fintech I mean fintech as an industry I mean won't work without collaboration right and and and as years have passed we have we have seen that trend increasing now the good thing I mean the good thing now that I mean people are more willing to do partnerships and deals over video calls than you know than flying in and doing face to face meetings and then doing those things right and even banks are adopting you know how to do things remotely over video calls which is I think a huge mindset shift because to be honest before I mean working with large companies anything that you have to get done on anything you have to do and rightly so you have to meet with multiple folks you have to you know draw the plan to the team to before which I mean you know some of these things can happen right but in this environment I think everyone wants to move forward right and everyone wants to open up opportunities get more distribution or get get more partnerships going on right so we definitely see that I mean there's again you know decent amount of mentality shift and dynamic shift that is happening and and you know it's any any kind of partnership or any kind of opportunity that we are exploring you know it's it's kind of happening at a decent pace right now as well I mean you know because uh looks like there's more bandwidth right now that is there right to focus on some of these things uh and people are trying to figure out okay what is going to work going forward right so partnering with platforms or you know firms which can which already have decent distribution is in a way good for everyone right and and most of the ecosystem is you know the previous channels of distribution are you know kind of uh is not working at the moment right so from that perspective yes uh there there's going to be more collaboration that is going to happen right and the firms that are smart about it they will figure out that you know how they can leverage these opportunities to do more business and be able to help the ecosystem better right but you know to be honest I mean in in fintech I mean that has already been a trend I think most mostly you'll see that acceleration happening uh that is there I'll be more distinct that you know especially in other industries that should hopefully happen much better than what has been in the past all right uh so you know we'll just we'll we'll now start thinking questions that have come our way both through this channel and other channels uh Facebook and also we have a question from a gentleman Rishi Sagar he says that why do companies not protect their profits a portion of money for unexpected natural disasters like this India has this kind of disasters every year be it flood heavy rain or etc so should not there be strategies in place rather than taking hard decisions when it's I mean of course this isn't uh completely unprecedented situation but what I mean I think what he means is that why aren't the runways kept that way and you know maybe unit economics is not adhered to by a lot of startups maybe something like that so if I can go over I can ask you that question see you know like Archit and Sushant will also tell you that every business plan has a buffer that is built right that ranges from 10 15 maybe 20 at the most and that buffer is built for you know events where supply comes down or demand goes down but you know this is one event where like you earlier mentioned it was nowhere in the business plan you can't forecast this even when we started the lockdown started at 500 cases today we are at a lack and 10,000 right so and nobody knows where this is going so first thing is you know you can't buffer for things where there is a uncertainty to when it can end the second part is that it's not that you know startups don't think about this but what there is always this call between rapid growth versus balance growth and you know keeping into account buffers or you know funds for let's say uncertainty now what happens in an expansive growth stage is that you know one month you see a 20% increase over the last month you automatically want to you know take it to 25% the next month you know you are very able to get to 24-25% and you want to take it to 30% growth the next month all these things require investments you know whether it be on technology whether it be on and technology is not just hiring people right it is also what you pay to your Amazon's your azures of the world you know your data security companies you then hire more people as well and then all of a sudden you know while this is all done to make sure that your 30% growth becomes 50% growth you are hit by an event like this where that growth in fact becomes negative 50% so in this scenario you know you're not left with a choice but to undo some of the actions you have taken which was supportive of a growth economy right so I don't think there is a right or wrong answer but that is how you know we've been thinking about this in the past now do we learn from this going forward I'm sure you know not just us but the whole world will learn from this VCs will learn from this governments will learn from this and you know it might lead to a slightly more buffer being created you know more I would say realistic growth targets being putting into place but that's something I think the future will tell us Archit I think you're very abused with the question I'm sure you want to answer that yeah so I think like I think like it's a black spot event right almost like so I find I think like startups are purpose built for one or two things right like so you have to like achieve like maturity and get to like get to add scale profits and cash flows right till that point like buffering for emergencies and like startup like sounds like a startup like any talk to any of these founders here right on me like a startup is the emergency all the time now covid is like a compounding thing but some ball is on fire like right when growth is happening then growth is on fire when this is happening this is on fire like so I feel like I don't think it's possible to model these kind of things I think I think the resilience part is like I think the I mean very resilient businesses which outside in look very very solid have had like the demand side completely collapsed right like due to no fault of their right you could be running a very nice high quality airline business although that is a that is not seen globally but it's a shit business but like I mean even if you had like a good like business I mean like if all planes are like on the ground and you're paying like rental leases and like employees how do you come out of it like so I think like I think it's just not like possible I think big day the question is like more directed toward than mark and recent recently wrote about it like question is how does how does the nation how does the world react to a to a problem and how resilient are its citizens and how how fast do you build I think as a as a as a country India like India gives me a lot of optimism I think India and China like our countries where like like we remove like regulatory burdens actually quite fast when we need to build right like actually I think the US is like maybe struggling a little bit on that like dimension so I feel like I feel the question is maybe a little unfair I don't think startups should look for and find those answers they should like go for like one thing get it done and like when hiccups come like like figure it out I guess Sushant there is a question for you you know specific to you is that what steps what steps is taking to ensure that frauds are not are under check as there might be fly-by-night NGOs who might exploit such opportunities legit organizations so I mean you know it's in the nature of our business to continue dealing with frauds I mean pandemic or not I mean there'll always be people who want to take advantages of such things right and you know use these opportunities so we work with so there are certain things that we I mean you know we regularly enforce we work with a organization called Give India which which kind of audits NGOs and you know ensures the whatever money that they are getting is going into the right hands that is there then for the self-help groups or the social groups that we are working with right they kind of look into their past records either if they have a transaction history with us like they're already working with us for you know some business or the other so we know that there's already a positive record that is there otherwise is it being led by someone who has a good social media profile or who has a good profile in the country you know in terms of leading these initiatives or any such initiative in the past right so some sort of personal track record that helps us guarantee that yes the money will be used for the right purposes right that's right all these things we still account that you know there'll be some some leakage that will happen and and that is kind of unavoidable if we clamp down too hard on the leakages then we'll also clamp down on some of the good operators that are there and deny them these opportunities so our general philosophy is that I mean you know we should clamp down to the extent possible but it's okay if you know one person on the five percent kind of goes through and that's like the past opportunity okay okay all right thank you we have a question from Keithy Gowen can we give her the audio please Keithy Gowen yes Keithy Gowen yes please please take your question I just want to ask that how digital marketing agencies would adapt to new normal like there will be many opportunities available for them how should they adapt which opportunity they should utilize and which should they ignore okay okay I believe we don't have people from digital marketing here but I would still you know as a general question God I would want to ask you that you know you were saying that a lot of people pivoted from their positions and also you know adapting is something which the situation requires at times so how do you how do you see it I mean of course some like you mentioned that a lot of people went from for hyper local delivery because that was the time when they needed to survive so this adoption of course for that time is is just temporary but if it works out it may it may you know stick on with them so how do you see that adoption as the need of the R is so but you know coming to Keithy's question so you know if you know marketing is nothing but you know reaching the right customer at the right time with the right product and the right messaging and digital agencies have been able to do a good job of that it's as long as they continue on that front in this environment it could mean that the messaging could change just to give an example from our side a loan messaging till about two months back was why don't you get a holiday loan for your summer vacation right that messaging has changed to why don't you get a covid emergency line of credit which you may need in the next few months right so you're able to get almost similar demand levels there you're able to get similar quality of consumers over there but the messaging is slightly different right so it is all about understanding what the customer wants and I think digital marketing is is blessed in that situation that you know all the data that they need is already available a few surveys you do here and there you come to know what customers want AB testing is being done for ages now where you can figure out you know what creative works over the other what product feature works and as long as you know you're on top of those things and there is customer demand you'll be able to figure out the right marketing mix so it's you know just to summarize it's understanding what the customer wants and positioning it in a manner which is going to get the best possible response out of that customer thank you thank you butter uh next we have a question from uh vignesh waran jk can we have it what do you think yes okay so so what will be the hiring strategy so we can expect like i'm basically i'm developer so like you know what will be the plan plan b and all okay okay uh i think what you mean is that you know giving all this that you know what is that plan b what what's the plan we kept in mind for you know in terms of getting higher will when you've been looking too high right yeah so uh like we are already hiring in for tech roles and design roles right uh we like i think uh product technology and design right like uh these are like very important to high quality and scared skills right so like uh the like skilled uh people in these in these domains right product technology and design will always like have demand in the market so i think like uh from a question standpoint like uh i think most companies including ours and like people in the software space will uh and sass space and fintech like we'll be hiring uh like maybe the hiring starts one week from the lockdown and maybe start six months from the lockdown i mean that's just a matter of time uh so if they are in the thriving mode and the growth mode right and the second part is uh i think like this is a good time for developers uh engineers like designers programmers to upskill themselves right like this is like hard one downtime right like that you've you've gotten right like downtime is so difficult to get like you're always in a in like this loop of like uh employment and moving from one employer to another or like working hard at an employer so i think this is a great downtime i think like uh if you're young and uh your parents can like video i mean it's a good time to like uh learn some course where like learn about new technologies upgrade your talent upgrade your skills there'll be always demand for the next 50 years for great programmers and great designers and great product managers so i think it's a great time to learn up skill yourself if you if you can't find jobs contribute to open source build some open source projects uh like uh get your resume cv shopper uh learn a lot like from all these like Khan Academy to open courseware to Coursera to Udacity like Udemy there are like 50 options right so i mean like 5000 options for all that so i think it's just uh it's a very very good time uh to be a engineer okay that's that's that's kind of very uh supporting uh Gaurav what do you want to add to that no i i agree with Arjun the only thing i'll add is that uh you know keep your profile cvs up to date linkedin profiles ready don't uh you know be disappointed if you're reaching out to hr teams or companies right now and not hearing back it's not because you know they don't value your email or they don't want to look at you it's more that they just don't have the time right now or you know they may not be hiring right now only looking at optimizing the internal teams but things will come back it's uh you know it's a pause that is there it is not a fall that has happened just be there and you know in the next month month and a half reach out to these companies again i'm sure there is enough and more demand for good talent and uh a covert won't take that away okay okay uh there's a really good question i'm not giving the audio but i'll just use the five uh my personal calls that you guys are listening to uh going to do fresh hiring so fresh out last month uh so uh we are doing hiring right now for the critical for a few of the critical roles across the organization where we see that i mean we need those functions on people uh that are there um you know and freshers perspective right i mean we asked here for the freshers and all we still want to i mean you know go ahead and honor them uh that's there right but yeah i mean overall hiring will definitely be reduced and and we'll continue to be so far i think at least for next one to two months and beyond that it will pick up again so we'll summarize i mean we're just doing hiring in few critical roles and uh and and then open it up broader later on okay uh so we have a question on our facebook uh from uh our gentleman called you sort of we lost you there one we'll just wait for us also to you know connect again it's just okay since we're all sitting here like i'll i'll ask a couple of questions to gaurav and shashank while we wait for some sort of to join so so like uh shashank like uh i'm curious about like uh one thing uh which was a surprise learning for you during this crisis and i'll go to the same question with gaurav uh i have a capacity for us to go remote so quickly right from from being in office and and everyone collaborating there and and and you know uh while we have work from home policy right i mean it's not it's not as much used to it's not used to that extent right because of everything happening in office right and so quickly everyone has shifted uh remotely and working from there and and you know it's been a mixed back it's for some teams like the productivity has definitely increased because there's lesser interruptions lesser meeting for other functions like sales and all it is definitely i mean you know productivity is down right but how quickly the shift has happened and how quickly a lot of managers have now started saying okay work from home is working better it's been a huge surprise which which which is a transition that i wouldn't have expected to happen at all you know yeah yeah that's definitely something i think another thing would be that you know for a lot of enterprise customers and everyone right i mean we used to have a lot of face-to-face meetings for making for uh making a deal happen and right now it's it's amazing uh is that you know we are able to close deals over video calls and zoom calls uh which which i wouldn't have thought of as possible right so that's i think i'm hoping it will give any efficiency and productivity boost for the the uh you know for the deal making and industry right between all the SMEs and SMEs yeah yeah cost of doing business should come down with this yeah sorry my my my internet uh there was a load shedding family and i and i nobody this year we are like used to this in zoom calls now so so we just just a note of time but you know there are uh there is a couple of more questions that i would want uh gentlemen to answer uh so there is one question from Navin on Facebook he says that you know for starting uh to start a startup there's not a formality registration documentation banking financial product tax compensation so uh he he's basically asking that can there be uh collaborations uh you know uh collaborating competition like approach and then these guys have an easier uh you know the first step to start uh is there anything which you can think of actually uh i'll i'll take that question because we actually do come we register thousands of companies help help want to not get started as part of our uh clear tax start program so uh so i think uh so i think like we've been working with the government bodies a lot more and like the government is now more receptive like a single window ability to clear create a startup uh still very very painful so i would like to start by saying the question is very valid uh because you have to like go through like at least three or four registration maybe more to get started like there's all the way from like company incorporation to trademark to like uh to like uh shops and works act registration to like if you're starting a restaurant uh you need a fssai registration and all of that uh like so it's it's a lot of pain to start a company and like to get started so i think uh so i think like we we sort of like uh saw this pain from a lot of entrepreneurs and started this uh this product line which helps businesses get started but uh i would say you know definitely something which is very very fictional i think what i've seen is like because of the because of covid like the government is thinking about how to bring down the entire burden and make it less uh but like until something concrete happens remains to be seen but definitely a lot of pain for entrepreneurs young entrepreneurs getting started uh like i think it will require like uh actually this is a good time to actually for uh folks like us like to push on the government like to because it's very receptive right now also right like labor law simplification may happen other things may happen during this window i think it's a it's a let's not waste a good crisis kind of a moment so i think uh i think but still both painful and uh we try to take some pain out of the process but uh we're not satisfied uh with this like i mean like uh though director when i oh yeah carol carol like and so on so forth this is a pain in the ass definitely there should be simpler processes and you know uh i think the government has also done quite a bit to reduce friction for starting a business and for operating a business and you know we all know that the india the rank of india the country has also gone up uh significantly in the ease of doing business uh ranking that is their worldwide and uh yeah i think we need more platforms more support for that uh clear taxes it's doing an amazing job you know there are other platforms like india filings and work research which also help in you know some of this single window initiative not just from starting a company point of view but also you know getting work done through lawyers or getting work done through some of the other agencies which are needed in you know while operating a business right so so i would say that you know as a first all i mean you should try and leverage these platforms to the extent that is possible right so that it's an easier experience for you even if you are not experienced there's a lot of education that is available on what to do what to follow uh and and try to utilize that as much as that is possible and said that i think uh yeah i would be uh my response would be the government also should do more to ease out the pain and reduce the number of days it takes to start a company and some of these uh uh any operational things are needed to the extent possible okay all right uh uh there is one more question that we have uh uh you know got uh from our uh facebook uh uh what uh for facebook it's from abir al-mishra he says uh he asks you srisan that uh you know an e-commerce startup right now should one go for it or not sorry what's the question again and an e-commerce startup at this point in time does it does it make sense uh you know uh even before the pandemic uh at least in last one to two years we have we are seeing a lot of niche e-commerce stores coming up and and and having sustainable growth year on year right so i mean you know someone selling sharing kit online or a t-shirt uh you know and things like that right and what i think now i think uh it it's it's still a actually for e-commerce it's a very good time because people will be more interested in shopping online uh than going to the stores and all right and and now it will be i mean people will i mean entrepreneurs will have to develop tools for seeing for replacing the the satisfaction that a customer gets with the physical touch and feel uh to to the equivalent online experiences that you can provide it some experience you can provide better and some experiences we have to improve upon uh in the e-commerce space so definitely it's a good time and the second thing will be to figure out a niche where you have expertise right where you understand consumer demand or consumers i call you where you can make the sale happen uh that kind of thinking is that kind of skill is still required and if you think you have that then you should go for it okay so uh i think it's like that's all type of content if you have uh will do so uh just one more question we will take we have a question from koshik putia can we uh give him the audio please koshik putia good morning over here i'm in Kenya so it's still 1040 over here uh my question was suppose uh during this pandemic we are going to get up a startup but the startup requires a tight budget and then uh your your your plans are for psychological support and motivation and as well what everyone over here is doing that is a business uh helping someone in the business market and in the business spectrum will that still be confined or will that still be supportable during this pandemic or even after the pandemic because after the pandemic the situation shall be changing otherwise because everyone knows that the livelihood of each and every person will be affected and uh as you know if it's going for online and it's going for the strategic e business it will be applicable globally true but then how would you won't suggest how will you suggest uh upon its type budgeting and uh how upon its financial support no let's support me i believe what he wants to know is that you know in during these times where we have such budgets and you know you would want to uh you know lack of financial support so you need a lot of you know work done on the designing part and also uh how about you want to answer that question yeah so i think two parts your question one is on the financial support and the other is the probably the business model itself coming to both of these right so i don't think you should worry too much about the financial support as you're working on the idea of your business if the idea is good you will find enough and more you know people to come and back here whether it be the customers themselves or it you know be your friends and family or it be you know professional investors so don't worry about that first make sure that the business plan the business idea is sustainable coming to a business model i think you know you mentioned mental health psychological support these are all things i think everybody needs right now and we have seen a huge amount of increase in both startups and professional healthcare in in you know there's this environment so my suggestion would be that yes you know while this is a great opportunity do your research on existing models top of my mind a startup called inner hour comes to mind based out of Mumbai who's you know providing mental health support to organizations and the employees have a look have a look at the business model study the market whether in Kenya or in India and then go about it thank you ah nothing specific i think like overall like for ontoc node like i think the higher level message for me for me always like it's a great time to start and if you if you're like running a show like like fantastic times because recessions etc crisis reduces great companies so just stay focused like it's it's going to be like a good good journey like six eight months the world will figure out the new normal like great great time to build a build a company any kind of company actually like in these recessions interesting companies upon because you actually understand user behavior and completely change working so i think i think it's a great time for the ecosystem i think there'll be a little more Darwinian pressure maybe startups will merge a little bit more and and like we'll all come out of it in one good piece so it will be fine so i think i just like recommend want to keep getting started to keep keep working on their idea and it's a good time great yeah i think just adding on to what i just said right uh i think the the most important thing to believe is that i mean this will pass for sure right uh so as much as you can realize what the behaviors that are changing and how things are going to be impacted it whenever change happens it's an opportune time to uh you know do something to grow to do new things uh because you know when things are constant it's very difficult to change behaviors right uh whenever whenever these things happen as i just said i mean don't let any crisis go waste right so you can all you can always find good opportunities even during these times and to be honest right now there'll be a lot of support available there'll be a lot of new ways that will come out of doing things efficiently of doing things in a cost-conscious manner i mean which which we weren't seeing in past few years right i mean all those things are you know going towards real more towards how it should be towards sustainability towards reality uh towards post-transition right and as and when these things happen i mean you have an opportunity to do things uh to support these behavioral changes right so so one year from now two years from now you'll see quite a few amazing companies that have come out of this uh crisis and that will uh you know impact behavioral changes at a national level and if you if you if you believe that you know you you have you have an act for problem solving and if you want to solve for a problem passionately then you should just go for it there's absolutely no way uh you know anything like this should stop as far as as far as uh you know funding and all it's concerned i mean customers are your best funders so any day so as long as customers are adopting you i mean you don't need any other support right and as and when that happens everyone else will come and support you anyways thank you gentlemen so much it was wonderful to have you on and uh what i believe comes out of this is that you know uh no time is bad time to learn and if you keep at it uh i'm sure that you know business has been and i just also mentioned you know uh uh in crisis uh three companies have formed even in the past we have seen that happening in all the uh this session we did that three companies have come out of come out of it so thank you everyone uh for being here today and i also want to thank my attendees uh to to be a part of this and hopefully you've been uh uh uh uh quite a lot of time from uh these founders here uh we'll see you again so thank you everyone thank you thanks guys thank you everyone