 Live from Dublin, Ireland, it's theCUBE, covering Hadoop Summit Europe 2016, brought to you by Hortonworks. Now your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Dublin, Ireland to wrap up day two and wrap up the show for Hortonworks Hadoop Summit 2016. It's theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and expect to see the noise. I'm John Furrier. I go, Dave Vellante, Dave, wrapping up thoughts, and I thought the ecosystem has some dynamics and some movements, there's some patterns for me. What's your thoughts? Well, so I wasn't at Big Data SV, but I watched a lot of the interviews. I think there's some similar themes here. One is we're moving beyond this whole notion of ROI, comes from reduction on investment, trying to transition into new business value opportunities. Although I see a lot of those that I'm hearing in terms of use cases is somewhat incremental. I think the big ones that you see are the obvious ones that everybody talks about in the digital transformation, the Ubers, the Airbnb's, the Netflix, using Big Data for their franchises. Those are the new applications that are emerging now. Everybody says there's no applications in Big Data. There's zillions of applications. They're running on mobile. And so I think we need to rethink. I think everybody's expecting that we're going to pave the cow path and we're going to have business apps running on Hadoop and Big Data. I think that the apps are different. They're transformational. So that's sort of point number one. Point number two is I think we're clearly seeing the ecosystem continues to be fragmented. And that's why there's so much interest in the cloud because it's simple. And I think John, we were talking this morning about how that cloud scenario plays out where Amazon and Microsoft and maybe to a lesser extent Google really provide that level of simplicity in the Big Data pipeline as services and or bundle some of the Hadoop distro innovations and Apache innovations into their services. What happens in that instance is to me anyway, it puts tremendous pressure on IT organizations to keep up with the cost structure, the agility, et cetera. And I just feel as though that notion of hybrid is somewhat quaint right now. I think that right now it's like we heard this morning on the panel, well, if it's public data, we go to the public cloud. If it's private data, we use our private cloud. Sounds good. The economics of that are going to increasingly in my opinion favor the public cloud. And the question now is can the hardware and software infrastructure ecosystems keep up? That's why Dell's buying EMC, lowering cost structure. You're certainly seeing HPE, a new HPE, willing to compete. You're seeing Oracle take a completely different strategy as is IBM. So that remains to be seen how effective hybrid can be. Private cloud to date has been a failure. It's been virtualization, virtualization plus a little bit of management and orchestration. Can on-prem cloud match public cloud capabilities? Jury's out, in my opinion. Yeah, I think the operating model of the cloud absolutely conflicts with the issues around the complexity and total cost of ownership in the current state of the Hadoop ecosystem. Meaning all the data that we're gathering, all the insight and knowledge and our experience that we have, I'm safe to say that this marketplace, Dave, is right still behind. It catches up, falls behind, catches up, falls behind. That is a problem. If they want to win the CIO's mind share and wallet, both Cloud Air and Hortonworks, they got to up their game aggressively and figure out a way to align the cost model which is total cost of ownership, personnel, deployment costs with the operating expectations of a CIO which is high value, low cost high leverage, which means I got to operate an environment whether on-prem, hybrid, or public in a seamless way. Simplicity, not complexity is what needs to be seen, in my opinion, to give a seal of approval, if you will, that this is going to be a massive revenue opportunity. Right now I see the glass ceiling on revenue. Everyone's banging their head against the glass ceiling. Certainly, Cloud Air is breaking through it more than anybody, but it's stalled. They got to get more cash. And I find it very difficult, in my opinion, to see a path that's going to get to billions and billions of dollars in revenue in the short term. If we start with the business outcome that companies want, organizations want, they want better digital interactions, better digital engagements, better, they're creating digital products. We agree on that. So now we work back. So what role does big data play in that? Well, I think we can agree. It's a critical role. There's a data layer as part of that digital fabric that is going to be tapped by the innovators to create digital interactions with their customers. Okay, great. Now, next question. In that horizontal data layer, who's going to make money? That's what you're asking right now. Yep, is IBM going to make money? Yes. Is Oracle going to make money? Yes. Yes, you know, HPE, Dell, EMC, are they going to make money? Yes, they're going to make money. They're going to transact business. Yes, okay. Now, leaders like Hortonworks, Cloudera, MapR, is there enough room for those three? We heard today MapR is kicking ass. We know what Hortonworks is doing. They're growing very rapidly. Cloudera, you know, their numbers aren't public, but you know, we know they're doing pretty well. Is there room for all three in that marketplace? I do. And then what about all these no-sequel guys? Is there room for all those guys? And what about all the other tools vendors? Is the market big enough to support all of them? I would say you're going to see some consolidation. It's not an industry. It's a market size. It's a slice of a niche market vis-a-vis the trillions. So big enough for those three distro vendors. It's a long-term distribution. I would agree with that. It's going to be winners and kind of bit players. And I think it's going to, being a bit player in a big market is not a bad thing. But I've said for many years that the number one guy makes a ton of dough. The number two makes a little bit of dough. Number three kind of hangs on, pivots, tries different strategies, CEO gets replaced, et cetera. And it's going to be interesting to see if that dynamic replicates itself in this space. I mean, I think the big opportunity is still great. I still see a breakthrough path. The breakthrough path is an industry around community comes together. The industry comes together. I presume you cannot hear us right now. We're wrapping up the show. I'm the ground here, here in Dublin, Ireland. The industry opportunity, Dave, is if things come together, okay? There has to be some unification and standardization in a way that allows this community to claim their stake in the industry and allow the big guys to do their thing. The whales can do their thing, but they have to figure that out quick. Otherwise, I just, you know. Well, it's interesting. So Red Hat just passed $2 billion, growing to 15% a year. You know, let's say Cloud Air is at 400 this year, which would be a double, you know? Can they double again? And it can they double again? It needs to get to a billion. Well, if Dave hits NetApp, double every year for five years, if they can, they'll surpass Red Hat. I think it's a big if. I think if the market forces line up and there's an enablement opportunity to scale up revenues, it's got to come from the cloud. It's got to come from the large enterprise. Has to come to a solution that provides low cost, frictionless deployments with business value and the ability to charge up the stack will be critical. If the stack gets formed and the margins are shifting to software, which we know Oracle and Microsoft are going to be doing, then you know what's going to happen there. It will not be a big market for the people who are below that line. Well, and so that's the other thing that we've concluded in our research. We'll see if it comes true, but we've said by 2020, software sales revenue spending is going to actually surpass services. Or else this business is in trouble. If this business continues to be a services-led business, it's great from the standpoint of business outcomes. It's not great from the standpoint of scale, right? The business is the big data business. If it is a services-led opportunity is going to be very, very hard to scale and it's going to be, you know, bad news for a lot of the software companies that are out there. I'll review some of the notes I had from the show, just kind of recap the ecosystem and the event here at Hadoop Summit. I find that just some of my notes here, obviously there's still growth, not massive growth, but still good growth. This is not a declining market. It's a question of how big is the rest of the market growing in context to this growing market segment? Penetration and customer, you're still not seeing the kind of production deployments in Hadoop that's a percentage of overall platforms within the enterprise. The Wikibon data shows that. Our data shows that. We're seeing that data. The culture, absolutely still a great innovation culture. If anything, it needs to get more operational, Dave. And we're seeing this science, everyone's kind of marching on that cadence of operationalizing things, get some automation going. Move to the cloud with IoT is driving a ton of fresh interest. Huge. Two years ago, this wasn't even on the radar except in a couple of different circles. Expansion around IoT is the headroom that this market needs for this ecosystem. I love the IoT. Love if it moves, it can be measured. The question of where the data is, does data travel at rest and in motion? Again, a key part of Hortonworks strategy and what the industry's doing. The key value drivers, customer insights is really all that people are doing today. That's got to, we got to go beyond that. Hadoop efficiency is paramount and is the number one priority for most of the people we talk to here at the show. And then also support cases and just interesting on those guys. Top use cases. Cybersecurity is number one. Fraud, marketing, persona, 360 degree of the customer and obviously templates for cybersecurity are critical. And I just think overall there's a still, no one talked about management much, but again, everyone's still working on management. That was again a theme that wasn't sexy. It wasn't the top of the list, but the management side of it was really important. Overall, there are business model threats going on right now for a lot of the leaders in this ecosystem. Mainly it's going to come from the big guys, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, HP potentially, and other ones where Hortonworks and Cloudera need to get their subscription revenues up, have to get more penetration inside the enterprise accounts, have to get into the integration game to reduce the complexity and the total cost of ownership. That right now is the Achilles heel in this marketplace, Dave, for all these guys. Complexity and cost of ownership really holding everybody back and so it's a race for automation and it's a race for simplicity. Well, we talked about the TCO piece as one of the reasons why the cloud players are doing so well. I mean, I think despite the fact and we've, I think we're in agreement with what we heard today or yesterday from Scott now that some of the capabilities of the Amazons and the Microsofts of the world from their big data pipeline perspective are less robust than what you could get from dealing directly with the Hadoop distro vendors. However, I think simplicity always trumps, maybe not always, but almost always trumps functionality. So I think Amazon and Microsoft are a really good position. The other thing that George Gilbert's been pointing out in his analysis is Microsoft's operating profits allow it to basically do predatory pricing in this space or any space. I mean, if it wants to really go own something, it will. And it could shake out a lot of players. Well, it's been a great event. The Guinness store yesterday was the party, it was awesome. One of the most better events I've ever been to, an event. But theCUBE's going out to more events. Last year we did 77 minutes, this year we'll probably push over 100. Next week we'll be at the Catalyst Conference, Girls in Tech. As you know, we're passionate about women in tech and continue to promote and highlight all the awesome activities with women in tech. OpenStack Summit, April 25th, look for us there. And as we start to cover the digital transformation and the digital assets in this new digital capital economy, we're going to start doing much more digital marketing like events. You can see us at the Oracle Marketing Cloud Modern Marketing Experience event in Las Vegas in parallel with OpenStack. So kind of the new programming day. We got to OpenStack, we've been through every year and now the Oracle Modern Marketing Marketing Cloud event. EMC World May 2nd through 5th, 7th year. Our inaugural event was 2010 with EMC World. Again, back with two cubes in EMC World. IBM Vision on May 10th, the list goes on and on. It's the spring season. We're going international. We're here international. Again, big, big lineup. And congratulations to Sanjay Poonan, Cube Madness winner this year. Beat Tanmay in the 16 year old. But great, great Cube Madness. And anything you want to add, Dave? Well, it was great seeing Tanmay get to the, get to the finals of Cube Madness. I'm really excited, John, about a couple of things that are going on in the SiliconANGLE media business. Obviously, we're putting some investments into our new website, so people should be looking out for that, acquiring some new talent on the editorial side. Really thrilled about that. Some upcoming relationships that we're going to announce shortly on that side. Peter Burris coming on as the head of our research organization. Really, I think you're going to see you're already seeing the results of that and the volume and quality of information that we're putting out there. More Cube action, more Cube hosts embedding. Yeah, the whole integrated media play, John, is really starting to come together. Our original vision of when we first met in Palo Alto at the BD event, it was really coming together and it was just thrilled. I think we're an exciting spot. It's been interesting last night we were talking about some things. And you think about the startup where the Cube started in the Cloudera office when they had 17 employees. Amar Awadala, my good friend Amar Awadala and Mike Olson, we co-located space with them. They were kind enough to contribute office space that enabled the Cube. Cloudera started the Cube business and they were the only player in town. And you got to give Mike Olson and Amar Awadala and Jeff Hammerbacher and the team and all the early employees at Cloudera, the credit, because they pioneered the business. It was the first 25 to 35 people at Cloudera that plowed the field, that created a market for big data, that created Hadoop, Doug Cutting and others. They did an amazing job. Now a lot's changed since then but you got to give credit for that. And the Cube started in Cloudera. But Dave, speaking of the Cube and we're different. The Cube is different Dave. We're not like linear TV or anything else. We do things differently and our formula is working and creating a community. And you know what? We disclose everything, we're very transparent. We strive for the highest quality editorial. We can, we're not perfect. We don't always get it bright. We're doing our best. You're going to see great investment in editorial. You're going to see new investment in social community. You're going to see new support in an announcement we're going to make very shortly and something really, really exciting around journalism, the future of journalism, the future of jobs and training and e-learning. It's going to be super exciting. A lot of great stuff. And we work hard and I'm proud of that. And I want to just say that it's fun. And again, we're different. Well, and it was, I mean, listen, I always tell the story about how I got a phone call. I was in Dallas at SNW, the big IDG show, aging storage show. And you said, get to Hadoop World. We're doing The Cube. And I did. And when I told the numerous people that I had appointments with it, I was, you know, wouldn't be able to meet with them because I was flying to Hadoop World to do The Cube. The reaction I got, except for all but one person, Rick Villa's IDC analyst, every other person said, what's Hadoop? Rick Villa said, wow, you're lucky. So I'll never forget that. The last thing I have is, is it time to retire the elephant? Right? We're hearing that, you know, it's Hadoop's not even Hadoop anymore. Everybody's still using the elephant. You saw Horton works in this. It is a good prop. It is a good prop. I mean, it has history with Doug Cutting. It does have relevance until the word. People saying, yeah, but like Merv tweeted out, you know, none of the Hadoop distro vendors even talk about Hadoop on their main page, on their homepage. Really interesting to see how people will start positioning their companies differently around Hadoop. If the complexity problem and the total cost of ownership is not solving, it's a potential pivot. And it's a potential pivot. Is that bad? No, I don't think it's bad. I think Arun Murthy nailed it on The Cube yesterday. Hadoop is a word that describes an ecosystem that is big data. That's why I did a shout out to the early days of Cloudera when they had that magic formula. Okay, at that time. Okay, I think a lot's been lost in there. As I said that yesterday, but what you're seeing now is this is really important, what they did. They created Hadoop as an industry. I think Arun Murthy, co-founder of Hortonworks said it best, Hadoop represents the entire big data ecosystem. And that is the open source community. And I'll say it again, at the end of the day, the role of community will be more and more valuable in all aspects of business, not just open source, the relationships, the history, people's actions and behaviors historically have to be looked at through the prism of community. And I think that is going to be the ultimate arbiter of how data gets interpreted, how people's context would be changing, and how the business relationships will evolve. So I think that's, in my opinion, going to take the whole open source model of software development and bring that to the cloud. I think IT content, certainly we're doing this, it will take an open source like framework. And I think Emer Coleman, who's on theCUBE today, really nailed the future around this and the work she's doing and the sociology and the technology side around identity, the sociology, the future of work. And I think it's going to be very compelling. It's going to be a fun ride. And again, this industry's part of it. So I don't see Hadoop going away as an ecosystem. I think they should keep the word Hadoop. All right, John, pleasure working with you as always. We will, thanks to the team out in the time zone, Jeff Frick getting up early, tweeting away, and thanks to the guys here. And check out our new product called Cube Gems. Cube Gems is a new product that we have out during the interviews, not only do we get the interviews up on YouTube as fast as possible, minutes now, right after the interview, but while the guest is here on theCUBE, we actually produce what we call Cube Gems, small, snackable video clips, go to hashtag Cube Gems on Twitter and see all the Cube Gems that we're producing. And also Cube Cards, hashtag Cube Cards on Twitter. Go check them out. And of course, go to SiliconANGLE.tv or YouTube.com, just SiliconANGLE. And keep an eye out on SiliconANGLE.com. You'll start to see some big changes, some new hires, a lot of great stuff here happening in SiliconANGLE media. Thanks for watching. Live from Dublin Island when we've had our share of Guinness, Dave. Take care, everybody. And thanks to the team. We'll see you next time.