 Okay. Okay. Hello and welcome to the September 13th meeting of the Amherst conservation commission. The time is 706. All members are present except Laura. We're going to start. I don't see any attendees yet. So I'll wait on my own sense, but Oh, one. Okay. Well, just quickly, if you're here for either 46 bearing or the UMass SWCA lot 13th, both of those hearings will be continued to September 27th. So that's both bearing street and the UMass lot 13 will be continued and we're not hearing them tonight. Okay. So I have no other announcements. Dave's not here. I think we can. Oh, I just saw Dave pop in. So I'm going to bring him in. Oh, weird. David came in as an attendee. Yeah, I just, I just put it, popped him in, but. I'm getting a name. Oh, yeah. Cool. I got an error code that says failed to change role to panelist. That's so weird. Okay. All right. Can you hear me or no weekend? We just can't see you, but you came in right in time for the director's report Dave. So. I don't know. I'm in my, my office in my basement and sometimes it's a little funky here. So maybe. Maybe I'll have his audio, but yeah, I'll be fairly quick. Happy to take any questions. Don't have too many updates tonight. Okay. So I have a couple of things just to fill you in on. So Pover's pond testing is completed for the year. We typically test the pond weekly from Memorial Day to Labor Day. I went one week beyond just because the weather was so nice. And frankly, I just wanted to see if the pond cleared up the coal lie levels cleared up and in fact, they really didn't clear up that much. So we're kind of, we're, we're, we're at the end of our testing season. I think I was thinking about this buffers earlier today and, and my conclusion was that this was probably the most challenging year we've had with water quality at buffers pond. It's a relatively new phenomenon. It's really in the last four to five years that water quality of puffers has really gone downhill. When I first started with the town, we actually never closed the pond. We never, we never had problems with the coal lie. So here we are in 2023. So over the winter, what I'd like to do is kind of put together a small kind of working group, pull in some folks from the university and perhaps Amherst College and maybe a commission member, and really take a look at the buffers pond and say, you know, where are we kind of the state of the pond in terms of water quality, and really look at, you know, a more robust testing routine and trying to look for the sources. Can you hear me okay still. Yes. Yeah. So it's been a frustrating year I know for the public, a lot of disappointed people, some folks who just swim in the pond anyway, but from a from a town standpoint from a safety standpoint from a public health standpoint. That's not really where we want to be. And so we need to look at upstream potential upstream sources. We need to look at the sediments in the pond we need to look at ducks and geese dogs, possible other sources upstream include underperforming or non performing septic systems. So happy to have any of your input tonight or in future meetings or by email or phone, as we kind of take a harder look at buffers. Any questions on that or comments that anyone wants to share with me before I go on. Can you tell us how, how many times or how long the funds goes for this year off the top of my head I'm not in my office but I, I would have to get that for you Jason but I would say the ponds failed failed water quality testing probably 70% of the summer. You know testing from May to last week. It's been a really difficult year it's really only passed probably three or four times three or four weeks, and those weeks, you know, we typically what happens is, if we get a period of dry weather without the flashy storms we've been having. The rainings kind of settle down there and we get a couple of weeks of, of acceptable test. But this year with all the rains we've had. It's really been, as I've said quite disappointing and frustrating for the public. But happy to, you know, I know Jason you, you have some experience and you know, obviously your, your professional background but happy to talk with folks offline about how we kind of pull together a group. We've had UMass work with us and Amherst College in the past on some water quality testing up there more robust approach. We do some upstream water quality testing some years ago and we can pull out that data. It was pretty unremarkable, but we do have some septic systems upstream. I think it's going to be kind of a comprehensive approach. So, okay to move on Michelle. Yes, thanks Dave. We are continuing to do interviews for our assistant land manager position this position has been vacant all summer long. I'm hoping to really wrap this up in the next two weeks. We have been very short staff this summer and the trails. I think show that they're quite overgrown. So, I hope to have some announcement at your next meeting that we have hired a new assistant land manager that's a full time job we have full to full time positions and conservation in the field. That's Brad border week the land manager and then this vacant assistant land manager position. Trail work as best we can continues we do have a couple of summer staff field staff that have been working part time with Brad, trying to keep trying to keep up with trails and trash at buffers pond and things of that nature. And so we really haven't embarked on any major trail renovation projects this summer because we've been down so so much in staff. Aaron and I are looking at a couple of projects in the next couple of months. She is nearing completion on a notice of intent for the accessible trail at Hickory Ridge. This is the, the trail that will loop around the southern portion the southwestern portion of Hickory Ridge. Many of you may recall me announcing and it was in the newspaper and other media sources about us getting what's called a park grant for this project we combined a park grant with CPAC money Community Preservation Act money, and we have, I think over $400,000 to complete an accessible trail at Hickory Ridge so we're hoping to get that notice of intent to you at the next meeting. We'll have to go through also some review by the planning board and we will likely take it to the design review board and also the disability access advisory committee. And so we hope to get it bid out to bid this fall but it'll certainly be a spring construction at this point I don't think we'll make it. And then, you know, by the time the snow, hopefully falls. So that's a pretty exciting project and kind of the first in what we hope will be many down at Hickory Ridge, the former golf course. The other project we're working on is with the Kestrel Trust over at the sweet Alice conservation area. This is the project we teamed up with Kestrel on to site their office their permanent office and we purchased land from family, and we created that loop trail around the pond there. Unfortunately, the beavers got got wind of our wonderful vision and decided to flood a good portion of the trail, and the loop is no longer a loop it's kind of. Well, that kind of two dead end trails, you can connect to the Mount Hoyok Range trails and DCR but we'd love to re reconnect that loop trail so we will bring that I think to you next meeting is that right Aaron. Yes, we're going to bring that as an amendment to a previous notice of intent for trail work there, and we'll have details on that for you at the next meeting. So we're collaborating with Kestrel we're going to try to do a raised boardwalk, using very minimally impactful construction approach using not exactly helical piers but something very similar, you know, posts, metal posts driven into the ground, and then a boardwalk, a simple boardwalk built on top of that. And we're looking at probably over 100 feet is that right Aaron I think was 125 feet long something like that. Yeah, I mean I asked for the length so they're they're getting some final details to me so I'm not entirely sure the length what the length will be. So this is on the southern end of the pond, where we put in a very simple bridge year year and a half ago and, and the beavers took notice of that and said well that's wonderful we'd like to flood that bridge and that trail so off they went over those engineers and they did it and so we'd love to create and it'll be a really nice boardwalk and and take people in a fairly low impact way over over that shallow part of a beaver pond that's been created. So that's a project we're working on with Kestrel, and they're going to they've committed to providing both the materials for that project as well as the labor. Another example of great collaboration with Kestrel. So those are the quick updates I have. Anybody has any questions or you know we'll be doing some field mowing this fall keeping trails open Mount Pollux as best we can with limited staff. Great thanks Dave. Okay unless anyone has any more comments. Move on to land management updates. And we have one land use application from Amherst College I don't see any representatives here but this is a recurring a long recurring class activity with not exactly water quality but water, I don't know, characteristic monitoring. Yeah it's a they look I think at a lot of macro invertebrates to see what they can do that I didn't see any of that in the reports that they've posted that if they're not reporting I'd love to hear that. Well so they've done that previously I'm not I think they're moving more towards water quality sampling now because I think the town has encouraged them to move in that direction but previously they've done some of the macro invertebrate sampling and I think that the information on our website there are some reports from previous work that they've done so you might see kind of shifts in. Some of the tasks that they've performed but yeah so this time around they're doing water quality sampling and they've done this previously at several locations in town. I think they're doing like, like sediment and temperature but not necessarily like E. coli so it is not necessarily informative of upstream water quality in terms of puffers pond but anyway just it's a student group they go out and they do measurements on the water so I don't know if everybody had a chance to look at the application. Suspended sediment that's what I was thinking of. Anyone have any comments on that one. No. Okay, we're looking for a motion to approve the land use permit. I will to prove the land use permit. Jason. Okay, Bruce on the first Jason on the second. I'll second side and realize I was muted. Okay, Bruce on the first Jason on the second Andre. Hi, Bruce. Hi, Jason. I saw hand motions. Yeah, thanks, Alex. Alex might have left us momentarily. Hi. Thank you. And I'm going to hear. Okay, you hear me. Yeah, we can hear you. Thanks. Yeah, slight delay. Yeah, we got you. I'll just note the delay next time. Okay. We have 10 minutes for the next meeting do you want to knock off some other business. Absolutely. Okay. So we have two requests for certificates of compliance. These are very old orders of conditions dating back to the mid 80s. One is for 15 wildflower drive. One is for 40 hop brook. I took a walk out there this morning to have a look at the sites. Both of the sites are stable. I did upload photos to your. Packets kind of late in the, in the day today with the photos from that site visit. I can try to pull them up so that we can share them. If my. My computer will allow. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. So we'll give it a shot. These are the photos from wildflower. And just bear with me while I navigate to. Forty hop brook. That's my vehicle mileage. I started my site. Okay, there we go. Yeah, so I mean, both of the sites were, were stable. I didn't have any issues with the issuing a complete certificate of compliance on both of them. And I can pull up the screen to make this a little easier for people with me. Okay. Okay. I think that's a good question. Yes. Given their age. Are both of these coming to us now because both of them are being sold. Yes. And that's generally when we see houses in these large subdivisions and they sort of get. So just. For an example, like, let's say somebody comes in with like a 40 house subdivision. So any time one of those homes are sold, they'll come to us looking for a certificate of compliance. So we'll see a lot of these for. Like the houses in Amherst woods are a great example. Okay. Any other questions commissioners. Nope. Okay. Looking for motions. I'm one. I'm one statement. Sorry. Just. This is a very minor thing. I noticed question six for a. A wildflower drive wasn't completed. Yes or no. No, thanks, Jason. Good catch. I'm sorry. What was it? Question number six on the wildflower drive application wasn't answered. It appears that it just needs to be checked off. On the copy of. Okay. I'm looking at the wrong one bear with me. Sorry. My computer moves a little slow when I'm remote it doesn't work. Okay. Yeah. Any old orders like that, that we, that we. They didn't start requiring engineers stamps, believe it or not, on plan sets until. I want to say like. 2010 is when DEP started incorporating that. So a lot of the old permits won't have a lot of the old orders won't have. They might not have the original plan. They might not have the original plan. They might not have the original plan. The engineer stamp on them. And that might be why they're confused because if. They don't have the original plan or there was no stamp on the original plan, they. Might not. Have the information to answer that accurately. You may need that checked off yesterday or now before we make a motion. I would consider that to be sort of an administrative issue. But if you do that after 2010, then. You'll notice then that we'll have an as built plan. That's associated or and or a statement from a signed stamped statement from an engineer that certifies that the project was built in compliance with the original order of conditions. Most of the. Certificates of compliance before that time don't have a condition requiring that. So. In most of those cases, that's sort of not applicable. But thank you for noticing that. And that, that type of. Detail is very much appreciated when folks catch that. Okay. Well, if everybody is comfortable with moving forward with that. Then maybe you could bring. Our motions back up on the screen. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I got it here. I moved to issue a complete certificate of compliance for 15 water while flower drive. And 40 hot brook drive. I will second that motion. We have Andre on the motion. Jason on the second Andre. Hi. Bruce. Hi. Jason. Hi. Alex. Hi. And I'm an eye. So. All right, we got four minutes. Can we do emergency? Yes. So we received a request for emergency certification from. DCR. And this was an after the fact emergency certification. And it was a situation where. The, there was a couple. Sink holes that formed on the side of the bike path. And they. To address the safety issue of that basically. Stabilized it with some rip rap stone. I did condition that they communicate with natural heritage and endangered species program because. As far as where the, the work locations landed on the bike path relative to the NHSP estimated habitat polygon. I wasn't entirely sure if they were within. So they had to sort of check their coordinates with. Natural heritage, but you can see this is an example of the stabilization that they did to complete to. Repair the sinkhole that was forming. And then they did the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the washouts that were forming. I think there was a couple locations where they did this. Work. And they provided the. The coordinates for me. So I could include those as an attachment to the certificate of compliance. But the work, the work was done before I even knew about it. And I wanted to issue this. Emergency certification just to sort of. Make it legal. I don't know what happens. They should absolutely coordinate with the town before undertaking any repairs. I'm sorry. Bruce question. This may not be within our purview, but that bike path has been closed for. I go by that intersection fairly often. And it's been closed for many, many months. Yeah. So this is actually the segment of the bike path that's north of station road. The, you're right. The section that's south of station road has been closed because they're, they've been in the process of resurfacing it. And they're. And actually, as long as we're talking about it, they're sort of in the final phases and I believe mid September, they're going to be doing the final. What is I'm drawing a blank on the word, but when they spray the area with seed, they're going to be spraying that down so that we can establish grass seed. Hydro seed. Hydro seed. Thank you. That's the term I was looking for. They're going to hydro seed mid September. So that project will hopefully be wrapping up. You know, before winter arrives. Okay. So we need a motion to approve the emergency certification. Yes. To ratify it ratifies. Yep. All right. I moved to ratify the emergency certification issue and I'm going to move to the second floor. I'm going to move to MA DCR for safety repairs. Slash singles on the bike path off station road. Second. Alex. Sorry. Alex on the second chasing on the first. I'm Andre. I have staying and I work for DCR. Okay. Bruce. Yes. I. Jason. Hi. Alex. Hi. And I'm an eye. And I just have one sort of follow up question. When you say that you communicated them to them, that they should be notifying us for this, like the emergency work or whatever. Who is your point of contact? And is there like a second point of contact or like, how, how solid is that line of communication to them? Yeah. That's a great question, Michelle. And very timely. So ordinarily I'd be communicating with Paul, Jenny, who's the sort of the director of trails. I'm not sure his exact title for DCR, but he actually just announced this week that he's transitioning to a new position. And so somebody's going to be filling his shoes. So I'm going to have to be communicating with whomever the new person is. And yeah, well. I'm wondering if a sort of memo to establish that line of communication is, is reasonable since there's enough of that bike trail, it, you know, it comes up quite a bit for us seasonally. So maybe that's something that we could consider just so that it's on file. We couldn't refer back to it. You mean a memo that basically states what our expectations are as far as communication on maintenance. Yeah. And then when we know about staff turnover, we can just forward them that sort of established line of communications memo. Yeah, I think it's something worth considering. Yeah. I can, I can find out more from Paul. Who the interim is going to be when he steps down and how to kind of keep those lines of communication open so that we can. Initiate some kind of communication like that once they get a new person on board or even in the interim. Just because often the bike trail abuts, you know, an HESP habitats and all sorts of wetlands. Yes, it does. It, it comes to us fairly often. Okay. Thanks for thinking about that. Okay. So let's move on to the notice of intent for Goddard consulting LLC for 52 faring street LLC for the construction of a single family house and garage and associated site work and preparation for the 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated land at 50 46 faring street map 11 C lot 123. And if there's any public here, we don't have a quorum. The background for that is that we've had some change over in the composition of our commission recently. So there are only four members that are. Available to vote on this one of them. And we need all four members to vote and hear this and one of them is absent tonight. So we will be continuing this. And with that, I'm looking for a motion to continue. I move to continue the public hearing for 46 faring street notice of intent to September 27, 2023 at seven 40 p.m. Second. We have Andre on the first person on the second Andre. Hi, Bruce. Hi, Jason. Hi, Alex. Hi. And I'm an eye. You guys are being very efficient tonight. Yes, making up for last time. Okay. All right, next we have SWCA on behalf of UMass for the construction of a gravel parking lot and associated stormwater structures and the 100 foot buffer zone to bordering vegetated wetland at lot 13 Olympia drive at eight D lots 1516 and three. And then we also requested a continuation to the September 27th meeting. And so you're all here last time. So there are a lot of pending pieces of information that we are expecting to see, which we have not unfortunately. But hopefully that will be presented on September 27th. So. Unless there's any big questions on this, I'm looking for another motion. So, Michelle, I'm just going to interrupt for just a moment. So, um, because the hearing is scheduled to open at 735. And I know this is nitpicky, but it's 734. We got to wait another 60 seconds. You should have read slower. All right. I was going to tell you, you've been being very efficient here. Is there anything else we can say about that? Well, we had talked about maybe having another site visit. And, you know, I don't want to talk too much about this without the applicant, but I think I didn't get a chance to go out and do this. Or maybe Aaron. I don't know if you've already asked the applicant, but maybe if this continues and continues, we can possibly have another site visit and perhaps other staff or other commissioners, if you're interested in that communicate with Aaron. Just to see if we have some kind of. Um, Scheduling that would work or enough interest that it makes sense. Or maybe we could just stop by and see it because I think it's accessible sort of just by a drive-by. All right. 735. With that. Can I, can I, Michelle? Yeah. I think it requires having been there with Alex. And trumped around twice. It really does require having somebody to go around and show you the different parts. And driving is sort of hidden. If you drive by, you don't really understand it. So that's good to know. So then maybe Aaron, we could talk more about, um, scheduling a second site visit. Thanks for that, Bruce. Boots and long pants and long sleeves are advisable. Okay. There you go. No, it's. Sorns and. Okay. Mosquitoes and. Thanks for the tips. All right. Good to know. Okay. Well. Looking for a motion. I move that we continue. Okay. I'll be a drive notice of intent. The 927 23. It's 745 p.m. I'll second that motion. Okay, Alex on the motion. Jason on the second Andre. Hi, Bruce. Hi. Jason. Hi. Alex. And I'm an eye. I'm not a fan of the motion. Okay. Well, we're, um, making excellent time tonight. And I'm glad that we have a couple other business items that we can knock off the list before. Our next meeting because our next meeting is a little more hearing intensive as well. The next upcoming meetings. Um, so would you mind if I go into some of the other business items, Michelle. Please do. Thanks. Okay. to be running into a lot of permit expirations. A lot of permits that were issued right around the time, well right before I started, are coming to expiration dates. So a lot of permits that I was present on the kickoff for are kind of ending their life cycle if folks didn't request for an extension. The first item under the informal inquiries is 200 Levert Road. This was a construction of a single family house on Levert Road. It's been a difficult one because the work was permitted and began right at the start of COVID and it was actually permitted after the governor's tolling period requirement. So I think it was, I can't think of the exact date, but this permit was issued after that date. So it's not subject to the automatic tolling period extension and I contacted them back in April and I said, hey guys, you guys really need to do your final stabilization out here. Your permit is nearing expiration and they said, oh yeah, we'll get to it, we'll get to it and then it expired in August. So here is the problem. The site is open, has not been stabilized and there's a large stockpile on the site and what needs to occur is that they need to spread the top soil and see the site down and basically initiate final stabilization before winter. They said that they're prepared to do this but they don't currently have an active permit and so I told them, you know, there's two options. Either you file a new permit to do your final stabilization or we bring it to the conservation commission and see what they say. Just from where I sit, it would be advantageous to the resource areas that are down gradient of this site to do the final stabilization before winter. I realized that it was the applicant's sort of negligence that resulted in the permit expiring but having a new permit filing simply to spread the top soil and seed it down I think would be the time that it would take to require them to do that and by the time they got their permit in hand I think we would be past the growing season at this point or pretty close to it. So my recommendation would be that the commission allows the, well number one, we do another erosion control inspection prior to them doing the finish grade just to make sure that the erosion control is still in functioning condition prior to them doing the work and then number two, that they commit to finishing the work within a 48 hour period. So basically that they get out there, they spread the loam and seed and finish mulch job within a 48 hour period and basically at that point they would have to wait until the seed germinates and then get a final inspection from me to remove the erosion controls but I think that would basically close out the project and close out the permit so that the site was stable before winter. Sorry, thanks Erin. Andre? Just curious what the I suppose legal mechanism is for this or what's the mechanism to get this done? Well it's completely at your discretion whether you allow it or not and it would be basically a, you know, a written, we would provide them with a formal written response that states what the conditions would be. I think in this case because the site is unstable and there's a stockpile there that I certainly wouldn't allow any additional work other than that finish grade and stabilization but I think it's really at your discretion and if you guys are uncomfortable with it in any way that's completely your discretion to to express that. Yeah, I mean I can see the need for it and the fact that it's just one last step etc. I'm just curious to see how we, you know, how we would allow it, what, you know, what kind of, I don't know, what authority we would have to to allow it when they've kind of unexpired, you know, their permits expired. Yeah, so they did submit a, you know, a formal written request to do this so I think we have to respond one way or another. I do agree with you Andre that it's it's a gray area and I've never run into this before where something like this has happened so if you're uncomfortable with it from a regulatory standpoint I completely understand. Yeah, I'm just trying to explore for now. Yeah, of course understood. So Erin, let's imagine things that can go wrong here. 48 hours is a short amount of time. We've had a lot of intense weather events that have popped up pretty quickly. There has to be probably some language in this that says well if it, you know, it's pouring down rain and we have to wait another 48 hours that we don't have to come back to the commission to ask us to do that. That's one thing. The other thing is that given those difficulties of getting the law I guess is what we're talking about to really take, can we leave the protective boundary in place until spring? Why does it, or do you mean that the final inspection might actually happen in the spring? Well, the reason that this concerns me is I've been monitoring this site for three years now. It's a very gravelly and very sandy site and it's also on a slope and so what ends up happening is material from this site which is primarily open and unvegetated is constantly being washed down to the toe of the slope at the erosion control boundary and it requires almost continual maintenance and also like I've been on the owner's case to fix the sagging siltation barrier on a regular basis and so my concern is that leaving it for another season open just allows additional suspended solids to move toward the wetland area. I don't mean that. I meant leave the protective barrier in place. You're talking about the silt fence at the bottom of the slope? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean I think you could absolutely leave the silt fence in place after that. That's all I meant. Yeah, and when I mentioned the 48 hour work window I didn't mean to imply that the commission would say you can only do it on this day and that day. I meant more from when they initiate the start of work and I do think that making sure that we outline the weather conditions would be really important basically noting if you undertake this process you need to complete it within 48 hours and finish it. The other thing that occurs to me and this is just an idea is to issue them an enforcement order because under an enforcement order you can require certain work to be completed and it's basically an order telling them that they have to do it and so that is a option. Obviously the applicant or the owner probably wouldn't like getting enforcement order very much just because the implication is that they've committed a violation but if you look at the site right now it is essentially a violation because it's an open un-stabilized site that has no active permit. So just an option to consider. Erin, is this over an acre? Was this subject to the construction general permit? No, it's a single family home. I want to say it's probably a quarter acre of disturbance maybe around the house. Somewhat piggybacking off of what Bruce was mentioning. Are we within our regulatory capacity to make them put a different type of sediment control at the bottom of that slope? Yes and I actually already tried that. When the permit was originally issued they called for the silt fence and I asked them to put in another control and they said well this is what the permit says so this is what we're doing. Certainly now that the permit is expired and that plan is no longer valid we can ask for whatever we want. You know it would be nice to see something that's biodegradable as opposed to plastic silt fence especially if it's going if we decide that we would like it to remain throughout the winter or winter you know until it's stabilized we'll say. So yeah I think that's a great idea. I would prefer that that happen a larger diameter sediment control either a biodegradable straw model or a biodegradable compost filter sock and you know do you have any idea how steep the slope is? It's not terribly steep at the front of the site it's relatively flat but they have almost like a walkout basement so you can imagine sort of the grade around the sides of the house it drops down. I don't know the exact steepness of the slope. I would estimate probably a 12 inch diameter or an 18 inch diameter. Okay. And do they have you mentioned erosion control and do they have an actual erosion control like an erosion control blanket or a temporary hydraulic mulch sprayed on it or were you referring to the silt fence when you mentioned that? I was referring to the black filter fabric silt fence. Okay. So you know another option here is if for whatever reason they can't get a contractor or somebody to come out and perform the hydro seating now they're not they're probably not going to be able to get anybody to do a temporary hydraulic mulch but if if for whatever reason they missed the the seating window they can do a hydraulic mulch and that should have a long enough lifespan to get them through the winter and into the next growing season in the spring. But my experience is that October 15th is roughly when you want to make sure you get all of your seed down by I'm going to say with the way the climate has been going probably going to have the growing season probably going to be extended a little bit but they still have a good month. Yeah. Thanks Jason. Alex. Erin do you have any pictures? You know let me let me just take a quick look in my what's that? While you're looking it's do I understand correctly that they have been three years? It's over three years since their permit was issued and yeah it's expired now. Right. So there was something else going on that that resulted in this pile of dirt and so they haven't been recalcitrant for three years. They have had a water construction project and or landscaping or something of that sort. So what I can tell you I'm just going to take a break from looking for the pictures for just one second this is what I can tell you these folks purchased the property right at the beginning of the pandemic and I think that they were extreme casualties of the construction downfall that occurred during the pandemic which was the materials weren't available and that the cost of everything went up sky high and they were building all through the pandemic with those conditions and my observation is that it did present a significant financial hardship to them and as a result of that they sort of stopped when they economically had to and that they were kind of waiting to try to recover financially before they completed the work and so I think that that did play into their situation. So I understand that material is moving into the wetland but for any functions and values of that wetland being seriously impaired? The material is not moving into the wetland I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. They are in the buffer zone and the materials building up on the upland side of the silt fence but I have had to inquire with them on a couple of occasions to get out there and maintain it and I think a lot of that had to do with the fact it was a single family homeowner that was there that didn't necessarily know what they were supposed to be doing as far as maintenance is concerned and I'm having a hard time finding the photos. I do have some photos from um wait hold on one second uh uh see this one might be it. So along Bruce's question do we have authority to issue an order? I think that was Andre but yeah so we have an you could use an NOI they would may have to reapply for the permit or Erin is suggesting that we issue a formal letter in response to their formal letter. So this was these photos were actually I do have more current photos but these are the only photos I could get my hands on quickly just to give you a sense of what the site looks like. You can see the large stockpile to the right which is vegetated um and the driveway you know the driveway and also sort of this side of the site is open and the back side of the site is open um construction entrance you can see this is what's happening into the fence in the back and I apologize these photos are not great but you can see the material um let me see if I can zoom in a little bit. Yeah I can see a lot of dirt up against that. Yeah there's a lot of dirt is you know regularly accumulates against this fence and um yeah it's great you know that's all that's from the pile that's all been moved come again all that dirt's been moved all that dirt's been moved by water. Yes this was this was this was cleaned up after I went out to do an inspection they went out and cleaned the material off the fence so this was this was over a year ago that this these photos were taken but I required them there was a breach in the fence so I required them to go out there and clean up the material that had breached um but this is what I'm saying like I this is not a site that I would want to leave open any longer than we have to because of the conditions that I've observed previously during construction. I want to say that this siltation barrier is around the 50 foot buffer so there's quite a bit of difference or distance between the silt fence and where the wetland is located which the wetland is pretty far into the tree line but even so um I just don't want to leave the site open longer than we have to if it's possible for us to get it stabilized. That silt fence right along the driveway? The silt fence is behind the house um so yeah it's the wetland the wetland's behind the house. But they won't stop while snow on it when they plow? No no the they won't be the yeah the the silt fence is not in the driveway area. So they've got time now to see that that pile is already grasped. The pile is grasped. Yes yep. When did the when did their permit expire? Their permit expired I believe August 25th or thereabouts. Also recently. Very recently yep the end of August. I mean go ahead. I would favor them issuing issuing an order telling them to get it done or or give us reason why they can't and must wait till spring. Yeah they want to do it they they want to do it they're they have a a machine um ready to do it basically as soon as you guys approve but I do think that it would be prudent to issue an enforcement order and and let them know we're not issuing this for it to you because you've committed a violation we're issuing it to you because your permit expired the site's not stable and we need you to stabilize it and give them conditions associated with that. I would favor that and just get it done. Okay thanks Alex. Andre? Yeah I I'm in agreement with that I think that gives us a kind of more of a legal um mechanism through which to not just request but also authorize um the the work that we want. The form of insisting. Was that? I said it's a form of insisting. Yes it is and likewise it's uh you know because otherwise I'm not quite sure legally or where we have the authority to to to permit that um if we're not actually requesting that they or insisting like you're saying that we that they comply with uh with the conditions from before so I I agree with Alex I don't know about the rest of you guys. Okay um so Alex your hand is still up I I'm assuming it's from your previous comment okay so we have Alex and Andre um who are in favor of not a formal letter but an order or um notice of enforcement so that we can specify the conditions and make sure this gets moved along in a timely fashion um I'm also in favor of that so Bruce and Jason. Yes. Okay Jason good yep I'm in favor of that as well. All right great so um um do we need you to draft up orders of conditions on this like how do we move forward with the notice of enforcement? Yeah so this is what my recommendation be I'm gonna I'm gonna read to you what the motion should be and then if somebody just wants to say so moved and then I'll proceed tomorrow with issuing the enforcement order and then um I'll communicate with the applicant and let them know we're not um you know we're not trying to come down on you but we're we need some sort of legal avenue to allow you to do this and this is the avenue that we're going to use um so just to let them know that they can proceed and what our conditions are so um my recommendation is that the commission issue um an enforcement order to the owner of 200 Leverett Road and that in that enforcement order it specify that um they are required to stabilize the complete the final stabilization that was associated with the original order of conditions um conditional on that final stabilization is that they number one have a an erosion control inspection to make sure that their erosion controls are functioning prior to the start of work um that they uh would remove the existing erosion controls and install some sort of a biodegradable form of erosion um controls as suggested by Jason uh like a straw wattle um that they notify us of when the work is going to start and that they complete the work within a 48 hour period and that in starting the work that they should check the weather forecast to make sure that they're not going going to be starting the work in the middle of a um rainy period of time that it should be done when when it's dry um that the final stabilization of or the final spreading of um top soil should be completed and then it should be seeded and mulched with um either either a hydro seed a uh hydraulic mulch such as what Jason suggested or that they um seed it and put down a straw mulch over the top sorry Jason do you want to add something yeah I have two things um first Aaron my recommendation to put a biodegradable sediment control at the toe of the slope is only if they are not going to stabilize it now okay and are going to do something temporary until the spring time okay and then um as far as final stabilization that the hydraulic mulch that you mentioned that would be that temporary stabilization so if we're looking for them to stabilize it in you know regarding their original order of conditions um we want it stabilized okay and hydraulic mulch is for temporary stabilization so we don't want to mention that I have an avenue for them right now got it okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna start again then in that case to make sure that this is clear no no I'm glad you clarified it yeah thank you Jason Alex did you want to add anything while Aaron's editing yeah well before she starts drafting might we put in a time period by which to complete stabilization to make sure that there is time for grass to grow before the growing season is over yes be completed by name of date end of September yeah I was going to say the work must be completed by October 1st um I think that gives them plenty of time thanks Alex yeah okay so do you want me to roll through this again just to make it easy for a motion okay so a motion to issue an enforcement order to the owner of 200 Levert Road the conditions would include that the that there's a inspection of the erosion controls prior to any earth moving activities that once the the spreading of topsoil seeding and mulching and or hydro seeding is complete that they notify me for a final inspection that the wet that the work must be completed within a 48 hour period from start to finish and that they must check the weather conditions to ensure that they're doing it during a period of dry weather and I think lastly that they complete the work by October 1st thanks so moved I'll second okay we have andre on the motion jason on the second andre hi jason hi Alex hi bruce hi and i'm an i excellent thanks for working through that one everybody yeah yeah all right holy oak trail thank you for digging up the pictures too that helps yeah definitely it gives a good indication of what's going on okay so holy oak range trail work um and just just so that you guys know um when I have time to do this I will which is um um I added in our our folder and I'll show you where this is so that it's clear I added in our folder a site visit various inspections folder and these are you know when I have time to do this I do try to do this where I plug in just a sampling of for you of the projects that I've been working on over since our last meeting um in this case the holy oak range trail work was completed and so I just wanted to give you guys a quick oh why it does this to me doesn't let me do it okay I'm gonna pull up the project folder um so the holy oak range trail work was completed um and I went out to do a final inspection so that they could remove their controls and um I wanted to show you the pictures because the work actually turned out really nice but there was also one issue that I wanted to make you aware of um so this is the I a couple folks on this call were actually out on the sidewalk so you can see this is the finished area of the resurfaced trail and where they've narrowed the trail which is really nice because there's bvw on both sides this is an example of a water bar I did ask them to install a couple check dams in this water bar because I could see that um gravel was already being carried down into the gravel bar and this is a wetland right here so I asked them to put a couple check dams of stone into that water bar to uh slow down the water and hopefully reduce some of the turbidity that's flowing towards that wetland this is another shot from the other side of the trail um this is the pension um uh bog bridge that was installed on one of the crossings uh this is another and then this is the little foot bridge that goes over the um the stream I did recommend that they do some stabilization um I asked them to install some um woody vegetation along here and I'll I asked them to do this on all of them basically to put like a log across here and a log across here on both sides and then to seed these areas and mulch them so that it'll reduce um you know somebody riding down on their mountain bike and driving through and also hopefully start to establish some vegetation um in these locations and um I did ask them to do that basically on all of the um bridges just because I think it's sometimes tempting for mountain bikes to go around these structures and I think the idea is to steer them on to it um but the the one piece that I wanted to just share with you that I um recommended I hope that was a crisp picture actually kind of a cool picture of chris valente they're walking um anyway there was one section of the trail that had a pretty bad um wash out and I recommended that they put some um uh small rip wrap sized stone in there basically just to prevent this from continually washing out there was a uh discharge point at the bottom of this scour line and it basically was coming out right near a wetland area so I basically just asked them to stabilize that um um and hopefully you're okay that I asked them to do that but it was it's all the rain that we've had caused this pretty significant wash out and this has been happening on a lot of trails and dirt roads up in the hills um with the rain that we've had this year so I just wanted to share will be continuing and will be continuing to have yeah exactly exactly and sarin that looks good great um okay 64 mill street before you go on sorry yeah I have a question too go ahead bruce um and I am aware that there is a group called the friends of the holy oak range are they some engagement in all this or um so this project was done by americor and um they had a um the from what I understand the kestrel land trust um got this americor grant and they partnered with the um amc appellation mountain club to do it um and so I believe in the example of this case they they had americor members who did the work and the the grant was funded separately but um I have heard of the group that you're talking about and I've heard that historically they did quite a bit of um trail projects but um I haven't seen any since I've been here thank you thanks bruce um just going back to that shot of the bridge where you had requested a woody debris and some plants yeah that looks concerning to me that looks like fun on a mountain bike not no not on the bridge I'm just worried about what plants would take there because it just looks like a pretty leafy bear understory and I'm wondering if beefing up the the logs might be a better like you know quick course of action um you mean to put some more woody debris in that location I mean not even just woody debris like not pulling a log from somewhere and crossing it because somebody could just move that um because I've I've had that experience with mountain bike trails but but like a real like cut log like a pressure treated something something that says don't go this way because that just looks like bare dirt and it you know it's just a sort of a bear understory and a deciduous overstory and it doesn't look like much takes to that ground so yeah more of a people management thing than a vegetation management thing yeah I can definitely mention that to to kestrel um there was a pretty nice established understory upstream and downstream of this location so I do think that but again there is a lot of compaction in that location so I'll I'll mention that to them and see if there's something that they can it looks very compact and like like washy and yeah anyway just in my experience that might get a lot of trampling or tires okay that's all yeah I'm pretty familiar with that one spot there that crossing yep um and I would I've been racing mountain bike since 93 I would never try to go over that really okay well that's yeah I mean I uh yeah I mean you you really have to uh if you're gonna get through there you really have to go slow slow down quite a bit the bridge is a lot better but those other spots that you're the other bridges that you're talking about are I would be concerned about you would be concerned about them yeah yeah I would because people may want to want ride around it okay but the one the one where the stream is is not too gnarly okay all right thanks for the insight under yeah there you have it okay okay um so 64 mill street um some folks who are currently on the board may remember this it was a they drilled a geothermal well on the site and um bear with me while I get there because it's in a different folder um and the situation is that they had the well drilled they previously had a paved driveway they had the well drilled and when the well drilling was completed um now it's caused basically an erosion issue um and so they are asking if they can um address the erosion by uh repaving the driveway to um address the problem so you can see in this case uh can you see this photo it's a have I shared it not oh no I haven't shared it hold on okay let me get there bear with me um so here's basically a um a photo of what's happened so the the well drilling took place um sorry my the well drilling was in this location and it destabilized the surface of the driveway and so now they're getting a lot of material that's washing across the driveway um and that's what they're why they're looking to do the um um the repair to the driveway um and here's another photo of the material washing down the driveway another photo of the material washing sorry I said it was paved and they unpaved it um so the wetland is um that's a good question so this is off of mill street which is I'm looking down the driveway right now um in this photo and the mill river is the dam the dam from Puffer's pond is here and the the mill river is down here so they're actually in riverfront area with this um and that's that's what makes this project jurisdictional um so the this material is not actually washing down into a wetland it's washing into an upland area but um he wants to stabilize it and just um you know fix the driveway Michelle's question was is it it was previously paved um and when the work was done to uh to do the geothermal well they tried to stabilize it with a stone but it it didn't um they damaged the paving so much with the drilling that um it didn't really do the job to stabilize the surface so they're realizing now they need to repave it so this was a um request for determination that permitted this work and repaving wasn't part of the determination um but he he has a contract lined up to have it repaved in mid-october and so he's he's he basically asked me if he could do the repaving I didn't feel comfortable authorizing it without speaking to you first um speaking to the board first I think Alex asked that they're going to pave the well that um they would they're my understanding is that they're paving over the location where the well was drilled yes because the the well is tied into their heating system um underground and so I don't think it really matters if they pave over it and it's a geothermal well if I didn't mention that not a drinking water well but a geothermal well for heating their house any other comments or questions does anybody know why repaving was not part of the original um I think I think that his intention was to try to stabilize it with stone in the work area but um he with all the rain that we've been having the stone wasn't really adequate to um stabilize the location he is on a he is on a slope here the driveway is pretty sloped it's kind of difficult to see in these photos but it's a it's a pretty steep incline coming up the hill and I think he just underestimated um that it wasn't going to be sufficient to stabilize after the work was completed sounds reasonable to me I agree anybody object doesn't sound like it do we need a motion to approve this I don't I don't think so I'm going to handle it informally as long as everybody's okay and it's on the record that you guys are comfortable okay um I just want to comment that the geothermal wells are sort of new I think for this commission and we're kind of discovering now what um is involved with you know the drilling aspect and then the aftermath so this is unique in that it's on a slope but I'm just kind of pointing out that here are some literal downstream effects of how you know this is happening because it is a um gating traction as a sort of a new energy source which is great it's just that there is you know impacts so just just keeping that in mind for the next time it comes up absolutely and I would echo um you know there was when we originally had the discussion about geothermal wells there was a lot of claims that geothermal wells were considered to be a minor activity and the previous commission prior to us having quite a bit of rollover in our um in our membership felt that it was essential that they have a permit and my observation from viewing a couple geothermal well drilling sites is that it is extremely important for them to have a permit from the conservation commission to do the work because the dewatering alone that's associated with the drilling of these wells is significant you get a lot of dirty water that's very turbid dirty water a lot of spoils a lot of stone gravelly sandy material that comes out of the drill and so it's it's been important that these sites had permits and controls in place because otherwise it would have been a disaster thanks for the context Erin okay so um I think do we have one more thing on our list we have two more things on our list and these were kind of last-minute things that were added in one is that the chair of the shootsberry conservation commission has shared with us some draft regulations that the shootsberry conservation commission is in the process of reviewing they have a hearing I believe next week it's the 18th and you know that shootsberry has had a wetlands bylaw for quite a while they're only now the conservation commission has started to develop these regulations and they've been having a really difficult time there's been a lot of resistance in town to them and so they're sort of seeking support from neighboring conservation commissions I am a shootsberry resident so I will give that as a full disclosure here and one other just important point of information is that part of the Amherst town water supply is located in shootsberry so these the surface and water surface and groundwater protection that these regulations provide are extremely important to protect Amherst's drinking water and I've been disheartened to see the lack of support for passing them among other boards and committees in the town of shootsberry and just feel that it's important that they feel supported and so just bringing this to you to consider if it's something that you guys wanted to express support for or if you don't that's also okay but I felt that it was important to share with you and the chair of the conservation commission reached out to us officially so thanks Erin so as per our conversation earlier they do not have staff is that correct Erin it's just the correct it's just the commissioners okay so they don't have an error in helping them out which is you know much much more difficult to do these things Andre yes so who's who's the chair that you're mentioning Miriam Daphont and the type of support that we would provide would wouldn't would we be taking a look at the draft before supporting it or are we talking about a generalized look we need everybody needs you know the recommendation that or maybe something that to talk among among us are we looking to just support in general the need for bylaws I think it could be any one of the things that you referenced if you want to read and give specific you know endorsement if you want to just give general support for development of the regs if you wanted to attend the hearing that's coming up on Monday that's also an option I believe it's Monday at 8 p.m. I think any any support that you're that the conservation commission is comfortable with yeah are you suggesting sorry very sorry that we do this dependably yeah or have some kind of coordinated statement from the Amherst conservation commission I mean that's kind of what I was going to suggest but or what I had in mind I guess was a like a letter of support but it's completely up to you guys okay Chris well one concern that I have despite the fact that some of our water comes from Toonsbury if we do anything more than a general support letter that says yeah it's a great thing that you have a bylaw it may just not have the effect that we would like because people may in Toonsbury may get upset that Amherst is trying to push them around and I can imagine if I lived in a different town and as the town next door starts meddling in my affairs I'm not going to like it now maybe that's an extreme outcome but it's a possible one and so my view is that we should be as supportive as possible is without digging too deep into the fine grain detail of what they're proposing thanks Chris um yeah I wouldn't want to make any kind of specific statement without you know very specifically looking at what their bylaw update is and I'm not sure that we have the capacity to do that but having just updated our own bylaws I think what Andre mentioned sort of being generally supportive of having town bylaws in the support of what the town's you know needs and priorities are and the protection of water supply that's that's something that's obvious that we can support the town in doing and keeping up to date on like for example Amherst really needed to update our bylaws because many of the things were almost antiquated you know like there are some principles that we can certainly get behind and out being specific about what exactly they're changing and so that would just be where I am on having any kind of coordinated or specific effort and just for the record it's not a revision this is not this is not a revision that they've had a byline place for I believe a couple decades now but regulations were never promulgated so this is there they are um these are new these are they're looking to establish them in the town as opposed to revise them which is the position that we were in establish regulations yep that the bylaw gave them the authority to establish in first place and they just never did it correct and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's you know a new board member is similar to this situation it's been a lot a lot of years where um there was a variety of people serving in the role and now there's fairly new membership and people are inspired to to get the local regulations established and uh so the effort they've been working on them for like two years and now kind of in the final stages of passing them or hopefully passing them Alex yes I am as a as a shootsberry resident that's correct okay and in a while I believe talking about how the select men were putting pressure on the conservation commission political pressure right yeah so um will you're showing up at the at the meeting have any ripple effects at the um shootsberry meeting yes it will or is that just the yeah let me think about um I regularly attend shootsberry conservation commission meetings just as a resident um so I don't really think it's going to be like something out of the blue for me to go okay so might that be enough well you know it's again I'm I'm not I got a second I got a second part but in terms of other people going on Monday would you're going suffice I can't speak for the conservation commission as a resident of shootsberry so um I wouldn't join the shootsberry conservation commission meeting and say I'm here as a resident but I also work in Amherst and I'm carrying this message along you know I I wouldn't really feel comfortable doing that um I feel like I kind of have to if the messaging is going to come from uh the town of Amherst conservation commission then I'd rather that that kind of be decided on by you guys but um I as a resident will just attend on my own sir I want to hear what Dave has to say yeah Dave did you have your hand up or was okay this year go ahead Dave yeah um this is a difficult one um I I tend to to agree with what Bruce said earlier um I think yeah it's it's pretty unusual for although I think we would all agree in principle it's pretty unusual for committees and boards to comment across town lines um I understand that part of our water supply is there I I think what what I heard Bruce say was kind of a a very general statement about the importance of wetlands and the importance of protecting natural resources and and and uh and resource areas could be a way to go but I think getting more specific than that is could be problematic and and I think Erin you know it's hard for you even though you might be speaking as a shoot spray resident and that's your prerogative you know it's hard to separate you you have a very prominent role here in Amherst as our wetlands administrator often you know your name is referenced in the paper frequently and and your your good work here so again you you are free to say and and do whatever in shoot spray but it it does kind of potentially blur some lines a little bit um so I don't know it's it's a tough one um yeah I think Erin needs to talk as a private citizen if she attends and she's just the conduit of information to us today so I think this conversation is between us commissioners about if anything we would you know what kind of statement we would make I do want to point out that one-third of Amherst water supply is Dadkin's reservoir and that is shootsberry much of that land and the shootsberry watershed is protected um but it is of interest to Amherst and there are general principles that we could make a statement on but uh yeah I'll quest um how about Andrea I'll just go in order everyone's got their hand up all right um yeah I mean so that's just about what I was thinking about and I think and I agree with what Bruce was saying before but uh really uh making certain statements about the uh about how um uh regulations uh in other words how um by town bylaw regulations enhance the uh the the state uh regulations and how and about the importance of protecting wetlands and so on without making a recommendation to uh without yeah without saying look you need to pass this uh but in other words say look in uh we have found that these are important here in in our town and in our town this is what we've done because it's uh it's something that we found necessary and just leave it at that without you know I don't I don't I think I can completely see what uh Bruce and Dave uh are are saying and I think if we can stay away from controversy by um by just making these these statements without uh without without recommendations thanks Andre Alex uh would um I mean would uh Aaron be able to draft a simple one page letter that might we might send to stating the things that Andre just talked about with that I think I'm inclined to keep Aaron's name off of the letter and you know she'd have to draft it and get it back to us for us to approve well or it could come from me or it could come from us I mean I don't I think keeping here in adamant on the record I would find starting one for us I think you would sign it you would sign it I was asking if she could draft it okay well it sounds like I might should go okay Andre sounds like he's offering to draft something yeah yeah I just I would recommend against uh I would recommend to keep Aaron out of it um let her let Aaron take care of the town of shootsberry things directly since she's a shootsberry resident and we as a commission draft our um our words and I think and and although I don't have all the loads of time I think I could probably put something quick together and send it to you guys that's great thanks Andre Jason yeah I just wanted to come back to the fact that they're clarifying exactly what it is that's doing they're they're looking to adopt the regulations correct yes yeah so I mean as far as a letter or something like that I don't think that we need to offer any kind of support or or recommendation even we can just state that the Amherst Conservation Commission you know appends the efforts of the shootsberry conservation commission to adopt regulations for the increase in wetland protection you know we recognize we applaud that they recognize the importance of protecting these natural resources something along those lines where we're not recommending that they do anything we're not trying to offer any kind of help we're just simply stating that we understand that they're doing this and that we applaud them for such actions thanks sorry no I'm just uh I'm assuming that if they've spent the last two years putting these regulations together that they're probably gonna adopt them go ahead Bruce the only thing Andre the only other thing I was gonna add is I would leave out any reference to the fact that the Amherst has a big water supply in their town because I think for some people that is a sore spot and I would just stay silent about it the people who know that it's there know it and the people who don't it probably doesn't matter I'm not sure I agree with pretending that doesn't exist I mean it's significant and Amherst has spent a significant amount of conservation effort in that watershed so I don't know maybe we don't have to discuss it in the letter but I don't necessarily agree with the standpoint of no I simply meant that in the letter we don't need to point it out yeah I think that's fine I think that you know the line that Jason and Andre are on is is you know supportive in principle and you know quite obvious for the benefits of water supply protection is for Fair enough yeah can I can I just follow along with that Alex I'm sorry to interject um yeah I see where you I see where you're coming from Bruce and with that and essentially if we were to say look we get a bunch of our we get this amount of our water from the Atkins reservoir that's Shrewtsbury land and so on is kind of us kind of saying saying that we have a this is the horse we have in the in the race so to speak and it's I don't think it's I do agree with you that it's not entirely necessary I like Michelle um praising which was it just that the regulators are important for protecting drinking water sources of all kind yeah including private wells Alex is your hand up for a new comment yeah it seems to me our choices are do nothing show up in person write a letter or some combination of show up and write a letter Andre has offered to write I think we're done the next thing is to see what he writes all right is is everybody in favor of writing a letter let's just do a show of hands like because you know I'm fine with that Dave did you want to talk are you bracing your pants I don't want to interrupt your vote here but it does get a little complicated because my recommendation would be if you vote to write a letter vote to authorize Andre to write the letter and send the letter in the simplest form that you've discussed you all can't share a letter edit a letter on email and then send it that's a violation of the open meeting law so but you could authorize Andre or Michelle to send a simple letter to the uh shoots break on come so that was my just my cautionary note here is you can't go out of session share any share a letter you're drafting because that is really deliberating on an action of the commission so just cautionary note there yeah thanks for keeping us keeping us in check with that one Dave well suspecting that Andre is a vice chair that that makes sense you I could bring it yeah okay we want to keep Aaron out of it Andre can't send it to Aaron to send to the rest of us to look at at the next meeting is that correct Dave you could you could do it when is the when is the shoots break on come discussing this or voting the hearing is on Monday you know I again I go back to what Jason said a few moments ago if the shoots break on come has spent the last two years working this this draft you know it seems likely that they would they would vote to move it forward I don't know that I don't have a crystal ball but if you're trying to get them something that is general that is broad that is shows you know that expresses your support for the protection of natural resources a very simple a couple of lines that Andre could draft I think would suffice and that would get it there expediently avoid an open meeting law violation and not have to wait two weeks from now when their vote will have already passed if that's your intention of getting them something before their vote so that's my my recommendation so if I could let me come at this again first with a question to Aaron about immediacy what's what's the need in shoots very what's the need for support as is and what's the risk if we do nothing as it is an alternative it's two questions yeah what's the need is there is there a movement in town for them not to adopt it yes there is I don't really want to go into too much detail on it but there exactly as you said there there are folks that are opposed to it and that's been pretty strong efforts to oppose it and I'm sorry what was the second part of the question Alex what's the risk if we do nothing well if the shoots very conservation commission doesn't feel empowered to approve it then it doesn't get approved and so I think that Miriam sending the email which my understanding is she sent to all surrounding towns requesting their support would give them something to sort of make them feel a little more empowered to move forward and or just confident to make a decision against difficult odds do we need a motion in order for something to happen I think it's at your discretion whether you want to make a motion or if you just want to collectively decide to appoint someone to be the messenger of the intentions you want to send before we do that Dave is your hand just remaining up or do you have something else to add I'm guessing it's just leftover okay so I'd like to make a vote I'd like to make a motion and if I could go for it Alex I make a motion or I move that Andre draft a simple general one page letter and submit it to shoots very as the vice chair of the conservation commission maybe specify that this will be for general principles about the values of bylaws for protecting water supply in wetland yeah that's kind of what I meant by general but you said it better all right thanks Alex I second it all right Alex on the first Bruce on the second Andre I guess it's an eye Jason hi Bruce hi Alex hi and I'm an eye and thank you Andre for volunteering to do that you're welcome so I'll just write something up fairly fairly brief and straightforward about the yeah about understanding what they're doing and that what applauding their efforts to protect wetlands and and then essentially just give an example throw as an example that we've recent that we have our own bylaw regulations that we that we updated last year yeah and if you're looking for some language some using language maybe visit our bylaws and the preambles and the introduction you know just give some language about the importance of what they do so that might be just an easy way to absolutely yeah great no need to reinvent the importance of wetland protection yeah okay great thanks again we do have two more items so one's appointing a CPA liaison and which I promise and we do and discussing changes to the deadlines for plan revisions which I think the second one might be easy to consider if we want to do that real quick I assume everybody saw the item on the agenda but Erin or Bruce I'm to want to present some rationale so previously we've had a deadline of Friday at noon for submission of revised materials for for hearings and Bruce and I were talking offline and I hope you don't mind me bringing this up Bruce no this I would do it if you didn't uh Bruce made the suggestion that we require basically that materials be submitted by close of business the Wednesday prior to the meeting in order to give the commission and staff additional time to review and respond to materials because it really doesn't give us much time to receive them Friday at noon when we have a Wednesday meeting I mean that makes perfect sense to me it always feels like it's coming in right at the line so any anyone have any objections to that okay do we need to sorry Alex go ahead no I just muttered okay all right Bruce go ahead there was a corollary to that also which had to do with the day of the site visits so the other thing that's problematic for staff and given that there's a lot of new people is maybe problematic for some of us is what day of the week and what half day of the week are site visits typically held it makes it very difficult for Aaron to spend the morning of Wednesday dealing with site visits and then rush back to the office and do all the whatever extra there needs to be before the meeting it's a very long day and I think some of us have expressed concern that well I can't really get to the site visits because I I'm working at that time whatever the you know Wednesday morning is not good so we need a solution to that too one at a time is that what you said Alex yes okay well let's start with the first one do we need a motion to change this or is this any kind of amendment to our regulations or is this just a standard okay it's it's not regulatory but I would recommend that we make a motion just so that it's on the record that this was official sort of policy that was set by the conservation commission then it needs to say beginning when because people out there in the world are imagining that it's you know there needs to be a transitional period right now in November okay give them 30 days so we have a meeting on the 27th where there's a couple open hearings that are going to be continued to and so it might be prudent to say that this would be starting as of October 1st and then that way we could warn the applicants who aren't present tonight at the next meeting that this is a new policy okay so how about I would just say I think that we ought to kick it out to November 1st October 1st is I mean you're you're looking at less around the corner it's the 13th today so yeah and the and you know just to be fair to everybody I would say November 1st okay and that that actually is a Wednesday so that means that that would be the on that day is the deadline for the meeting of the 8th okay so how about I say I move let me know if I'm getting ahead of us I move to require that beginning November 1st applicants for for NOIs no or for any permit any applicants for permits have all of their all of their documentation submitted by Wednesday at noon is that noon Wednesday close of business the Wednesday Wednesday prior to the scheduled meeting prior to the scheduled meeting let me try it again I got it updates is it is it all materials do we have a separate materials or revisions just materials okay yeah everything okay great all right we had the motion anybody I second it Andre on the motion Bruce on the second Andre hi Alex hi Bruce hi Jason hi great um all right do we want to handle the site visits hopefully fairly quickly can I just make a recommendation that I send out a doodle poll on that yeah I'd like to see where people are at because who knows what works for who yeah yeah I'll send a doodle poll with like it'll be I'll set it up for one week but it will be sort of your general availability in a given week so you can just check it off so it won't be specific to that week it'll just be generally during that week when are you available so you can check it off and give it a general sense and the expectation won't be that if you check it off you're going to be there at every single site visit at that time but if it's generally a time you're available you'll you'll try to be there if you can kind of thing sounds good thanks Aaron okay last thing up is a CPA liaison Dave you gave a good spiel last year do you want to introduce the CPA to our new members or do you want me to chat sure so the community preservation acts committee works very hard for you know about about five months of the year four to five months of the year to review organize and review community preservation act applications those applications come typically in about four categories historic reservation affordable housing conservation open space and recreation it's a really great committee they actually their first meeting is tomorrow night they the the period of most activity is usually between October and about February 15th their job is to review all the proposals that come in from town departments as well as nonprofits and other organizations in the committee or excuse me in the community in those four categories so these are you know typically really you know interesting and exciting projects like new playgrounds new walkways trails open space preservation historic preservation you know funding affordable housing in our community et cetera et cetera and so there is one liaison from the conservation commission who sits on that committee and both advocates for conservation projects but also has a chance to review projects in all the other categories so it's a really a really cool committee and we need a representative from the conservation commission thanks Dave so currently they're meeting they'll be needing Thursdays generally six to eight and sometimes goes a little longer in deliberation every week it's every week because it's yeah it's not a full year it's and I think I mean a lot of the time spent other than the meeting is reviewing the applications which because there some can be fairly lengthy and then we deliberate on and ask questions of the applicant so reviewing those takes some time and all that said I'm happy to do again because I did enjoy it and you know there's some benefit to doing continuity or two years but if anybody would like to serve for this next year I'm happy to pass the baton so any other questions or interest or crickets I mean I I'm happy to do it again and I think there's you know a lot learned the first year around so you know if you guys want to think about it for next year it'll come up again okay well I'd be open to doing two things one is being considered a year from now and being the alternate if Michelle couldn't do it that to make sure that we had somebody there if you think that it's really necessary to have somebody there every time oh that's interesting for us I can ask Sam to the next you know next number of Thursday nights right now but I'd be willing to be supportive if an alternate system is acceptable okay did someone else say something there's an echo okay um yeah I can ask if we can have sort of a a seat for the conservation commission that could be you or me but it does take some sort of being present for the the hearing or the anyway thank you Bruce I appreciate that and can it just anybody come to the meeting oh yes it's open to the public so I'm willing to come tomorrow just to get the feel of it okay so um I'm not sure I will I can follow up with you about that I'm not sure if tomorrow is the best meeting because we're talking about okay you can go ahead and do it I just it's sort of a coming back together and talking about some holdovers from well I can wait a week and do it the next week just to get a sense of how it functions sure let's let's talk about that offline but I'm open to the idea if I could just add Michelle I don't think they'll be meeting for the next couple of Thursdays because proposals aren't even due until the end of September so they might meet tomorrow but then there'll be a break and then in October I think I think they'll pick up I like the idea of an alternate alternate but I will say that ultimately all the members vote so you do have to hear all the proposals read all the proposals so at the end of the day under the process there's a rating for each proposal in each of the categories the four categories so it is really important to kind of hear all of those but you know if Michelle is willing to do it for one more year and have Bruce kind of shadow that work a little bit you know perhaps Bruce could pick it up next year I'm I'm open to that idea I just don't want to commit to it yeah I think you'd really enjoy it Bruce we have between one and one point five million dollars every year to spend on those four categories so it's really exciting to to hear the differences across the community so okay Bruce well if you come next tomorrow and it peaks your interest I can okay I can talk about reappointing here if you want okay and I can find the link on the website it's already there I looked at it tonight okay all right so should we have a motion to appoint Michelle then don't move I second that okay um Bruce yeah hi Jason hi Andre hi Alex is on mute just so you know Alex are you there we can't hear you sorry okay Alex is an eye and I was on mute hi yeah thanks all right I think that's it yes we got through a lot of business so that we can spend some time on yep go ahead there is one additional thing which came in actually yesterday or today which is that we received a forest cutting plan for the poverty mountain farm which is off of shootsberry road um I'm very familiar with the um forest cutting plan because I've met at length with Kevin Weir who's the owner of poverty mountain farm and I've also um we we worked with Tobias Carter who's the person who prepared the plan it's a long-term forest management plan they also have a lot of conservation um early successional habitat kind of management strategies going on there but if anybody has official comments that they want to make on the forest cutting plan they should come prepared with those comments um on the 27th because we only have 21 days to comment prior to it's 21 days to comment or and or you could send me individually your comments offline um if you have recommendations or conditions that you'd like implemented on the permit um I feel particularly comfortable with this one because I'm familiar with it already where's the permit filed um or the plan where do we see the plan um it should be let me just verify that I uploaded it for you guys it should be in the correspondence folder under new correspondence received uh forest cutting plan poverty mountain farm LLC which is in the new correspondence received after Friday in the correspondence folder for September 13th and is the landowner poverty mountain LLC or who is the landowner do we have course do we have hold on Kevin Kevin Weir is the um is the individual who I'm um in contact with uh who owns the farm but it's I think it's under the LLC the ownership okay thanks Alex is there land that we're responsible for involved um we do have a conservation come across yeah we do have a conservation restriction on a portion of um the poverty mountain farm is my understanding the town of Amherst has a conservation restriction on a portion and I know previously they had submitted a forest cutting plan um and we met with them and reviewed it um so it's I don't uh yeah I don't really have much more to add on it um the the town of Amherst just reviews it and make sure that there's nothing egregious going on that violates the CR um but it the CR does allow for um long-term forest management to be conducted as part of the conservation restriction yeah just a little background this used to be Walter Banfield uh the was the owner before that uh and I think Kevin Weir is Walter's Walter I think Walter passed away and has Kevin Weir is his uh son-in-law to review and uh this property uh has a lot of um uh grassland habitat um left open there for uh for woodcock and other uh grassland birds as well as a whole lot of um uh good uh wood woodlands going up poverty mountain Bruce um if we're done with this one the land use committee is going to be looking at sorry to understand you Alex but you said something about the land use committee looking at forest cutting plans I'm not I'm not sure that's going to happen in time for the the timeline for this but do you want to try and say that again we're just having trouble hearing you go ahead well the land use committee is going to be sorry Alex you keep cutting out is there a way for him to message us I was just saying that oh there you are the land use committee will be looking at forestry as a that's on town lands management policy document and um we want to review the cutting plan once so I'm having Alex is cutting in and out for me but just relative the I think he is relating it to the CR that the town has and if there's some nexus with the forest cutting plan in the CR as far as our authority yeah I mean it wouldn't give us any authority over the land tomorrow okay thanks Alex that'd be great and I just want to quickly for forest cutting plans just to give everybody like uh I don't I don't think all right we lost Alex okay go ahead I just want to say that so when a forest cutting plan is sent to us from the state it's considered to be exempt under the wetland protection act and under our local bylaw so unless we have concerns that are specific that there's like wetlands that are going to be altered or we think that there's going to be some damage to the wetlands those are typically the comments that the state is looking for if there's some kind of condition that or change to the plan that we think is essential in order to protect the wetlands or the interests of the the resource areas but we don't really have a tremendous amount of authority to sort of intervene and condition and or specifically with um private property where we hold CRs if there's if they're allowed to develop a forest cutting plan it would be really a difficult position to be in for the town to come in and say like oh you know we want you to do x y and z um it's because it's private property um so I mean I I just wanted to give that as background because it's not like somebody's filing a permit with us the permit is with the state and I believe that I'm not sure if it's 10 days or 21 days I want to check that um so I would encourage everybody to look at it sooner rather than later to let me know if you have any burning issues but it's automatically approved it's uh if if we don't comment with it within a certain period of time thanks Erin for the context Bruce um so Erin and I talked about the possibility of having a site visit a walk-around visit for four river solar at the golf course and she said someone something is coming our way on that and I just wondered if we know when it's going to be yeah it's going to be on the 27th of September so um that's when the morning well um there's a hearing of the conservation commission that's when the notice of intent review will begin and I'll be okay I'll be scheduling a site visit between now and then and I'll use the doodle poll to determine what the date will be okay all right thank you um I'm just going to go back to the forest cutting plan can you file a CE with that cutting plan so we can just look at whether or not the CE has that language in it oh you want me to send you this the um conservation agent easement yeah I would like I mean if that's where our authority is for even reviewing it then that's pretty well no no um I'll send the C I'll send the conservation restriction for you to look at absolutely and yeah but that is not the limit of the any forest cutting plan in the town of Amherst is going to come to the conservation commission okay it's I think we have it's either 10 days or 21 days to comments on it and if we don't comment on it within that period of time it's automatically approved by the state um if the state doesn't necessarily have to incorporate our comments uh unless they think it's relevant and essential for wetlands protection matters but um I know in the past we've tried to suggest um time of year restrictions and so forth um and I'm I'm still looking into that just so you know I haven't dropped the ball on that I'm still I'm still um inquiring on federal and state level about time of year restrictions and what the state's obligations are relative to that so I'll continue to try to get what I can and report back to you guys okay thanks Aaron all right anything else um okay we have public comment nothing else from commissioners all right Jenny I'm going allow you to talk um so I see that you're muted yep you're on okay thanks Michelle and good evening thanks to everybody uh my name's Jenny Calak I live on shootsbury road and I wanted to offer special appreciation tonight for the letter you're going to write to shootsbury a lot of the residents in the neighboring towns are very close to each other working on climate change and we've gotten involved in of course land use water uh wetlands and resilience uh looking at solar together so there is a community of people who although we have separate towns we have separate concoms we're all looking at the same goals to protect and to preserve resources so your letter will mean a lot to those individuals and means a lot to us in Amherst who who are part of this community of neighbors so just a appreciation and thank you for that and for everything you're all doing thanks Jenny okay always nice to hear nice things from the public Bruce and I thank Jenny for coming at the beginning of the meeting and staying through all this to thank us very very kind of you yeah absolutely thank you Jenny thank you all okay all right well we made it through um and with that looking for a motion I made a motion that we adjourn a second it Alex on the motion Andre on the second Andre hi Alex hi Bruce hi Jason hi all right thanks everyone for hard work today and Andre for homework and Bruce I'll see you in the meeting tomorrow yeah I feel proud