 Hi, Lisa Martin on the ground with theCUBE at Google for the sixth annual Cloud Now Top Women in Cloud Awards. And we are very excited to be joined by our next guest, Bridget Cromhout, the principal cloud developer advocate for Microsoft. Welcome to theCUBE. Welcome to meet, wait, you know what? I feel like it's so funny. I spend so much time hosting podcasts that I am primed to start welcoming guests, so. Thank you, I feel very welcome. Thank you so much for having me. And we love your Microsoft reflected hair extension. Those are fantastic. So Bridget, you are a computer scientist by training. What was your education like? Were you a STEM kid from grade school all the way through graduating college? Yeah, it's kind of funny. I actually wasn't. And I think that there's maybe a takeaway there for people who think, oh, it would be too hard to switch into computers. There's too much to learn. I mean, yes, there is a lot to learn, but I didn't have a computer until I was 16. So and I didn't know I was gonna major in computer science until I took a program in class and realized I loved it and dropped all my other classes and completely switched my major. And I think that there's probably a lot of opportunities today that there weren't back when I did this in the 90s, you know, all sorts of boot camps and that sort of thing. But I think probably just that you can choose to go into tech from any starting point like not having a computer as a kid. I would go over to French houses and play Oregon Trail and, you know, die of dysentery, but I wouldn't have that at home and I turned out fine. Well, I love that you took a class and you tried it and that was transformative. I think that's one of the great lessons that even your experience can share is try it. Absolutely. And it probably opened up your world to, did it, did it, well, yeah, let's talk about that. Did it open up your world to expose more of what computer science is than what you may have thought? You know, I had gone to some summer math camps as a teenager and, you know, played around with fractals on, and, you know, programs to generate fractals, like on the, I think it was probably SGI workstations at the college that we were at had. And it was interesting to me, but maybe not necessarily something I could take action on until I got to college and got access to UNIX systems. And it's like the little kid in Jurassic Park, this is a UNIX system, I know this. You know, I think that getting the opportunity to try things, whether it's in an academic setting or just with all of the free resources that are available today is super important. So you went to the University of Minnesota. What surprised you or delighted you through your curriculum in computer science when you were there? You know, it's kind of funny. I feel like there was a lot of emphasis on algorithms and data structures and probably because I was working for the CS department as a student systems administrator at the same time, I kept thinking like, well, big O notation, this is great, but let's talk about troubleshooting things on this, you know, Solaris system because that's what I would actually do. And I think that there's, I've come to realize over time that there's a lot of benefit to both. Like you can spend a lot of time going down the rabbit hole if you don't have a firm theoretical background of what's actually possible and how you can speed up a system. So it's good to have that theoretical background, but I think it's also really important to focus on the observability and the usability of systems and your detailed troubleshooting steps. I think of it like, you spend a lot of time in college taking classes where they emphasize the scientific method and you learning to prove that gravity works was never the point. Because obviously we already all know that, but you learning how to isolate variables and observe accurately helps a lot in terms of solving problems in production systems later. Good insight. So you're very involved in the community. You are, you mentioned podcasts, you go to conferences, you blog, what inspires you to share your knowledge, your experiences and be involved in the community? I think that I had a manager some years ago who encouraged me to speak at a local on conference and I brought a coworker and spoke with him and it was a very new experience for me and I was nervous. And what I realized is that the room was full of people who they weren't there to stare at me or judge me. They were there because they really hoped to get some insights for things they were trying to do. And I think realizing that whatever it is that you're putting out there in the world, people aren't looking at it to judge you, they're looking at it because they need something. And realizing that makes it so much more interesting and also less scary to share. I imagine rewarding as well. I think so, especially because people are often looking for ways that they can drive change inside their organization, how they can convince somebody to use the exciting new framework or the exciting new container orchestration or whatever that they're trying to use. Like a lot of times people who are paying attention to the wider world of tech really want to use exciting new things, but hey, spoiler alert, if you work in a company with more than two people, there will probably be at least two opinions. So you have to- You can basically go and do that right. Right, so you have to have not just all the technical background. I like to joke that I majored in computer science because I didn't want to talk to people and oops, turns out tech is full of human, like software is made of people. Like Soil and Green, right? Yeah. And it's like you can't avoid that and I'd say just embrace it. I love that. Do you have any themes to your podcasts or your blogs? Yeah, I think there's a talk I gave a number of times in the last year called containers will not fix your broken culture and other hard truths. Interesting. And then I gave, and I decided to, a few months after I gave that one enough times that I was bored of hearing myself talk, I started giving one called computers are easy, people are hard, because I think that the tech stuff that we're all excited about has a lot of socio-technical components in terms of the interactions. Like every single technical choice you want to make has a certain weight and gravity to it of the way the other people feel about how you maybe made their job harder or easier or maybe they now feel displaced. Maybe they're not sure what their place is in the exciting new world where you changed everything out from under them and they were just hoping to hold on a couple years more until they retired. And I think as a mid-career professional, shall we put it that way? I, of course, I see all of the kids of these days, TM, but I also see and sympathize with all the people who would really prefer the industry not have another giant sea change rate the second because they kind of just want to vest and get out. And it's like, I think we have to be empathetic and understanding of everyone's perspective along that entire spectrum because there's a lot of benefit to exciting change. And there's also a lot of benefit to contextual knowledge of your local environment. And it's like people at different ends of their career trajectory have a varying degree of either of those. I think it's really important and positive to listen to everyone. I love that because culture is something that we talk about a lot with technology executives that we're talking to on theCUBE, whether it's a C-level or a line of business manager or a product person. And cultural change is hard to impact. But you bring up a great point about where you are on the career trajectory. Your opinions or experience is going to influence that. It totally will. I mean, especially because, so I just started a couple months ago working at Microsoft. I spent the two years before that working at Pivotal talking to a lot of our customers in large enterprises and governments and banks and that sort of thing. And you have a lot of resistance to and fear of change when it feels like the stakes are really high and there's a lot of uncertainty. And so anywhere that from a technical point of view you can help with that uncertainty, whether it's by instead of the artisanally hand whittled servers in your data center, maybe looking at public cloud, anything that can make steps more reproducible so that you don't have to cling so much to what you were doing before and can hopefully extend past that. Like there's a lot of places where that the exciting wave of IT improvement that a lot of orgs are doing intersects with people's desire to maybe have challenges but also still feel valued. Like there's a lot of places where considering those human factors when making exciting organizational change happen which everybody needs to for their profit motives or their organizational mission in general, I think it's really beneficial. Speaking of feeling valued, who do you value? Who are some of your mentors that inspire you today? You know, it's funny you should ask that because I feel like mentorship is one of those things where I have a giant question mark. I'm not sure if I've had it done right or have ever done it right or whatever. I would say I'm definitely inspired by a lot of the women I know in technology in particular. Like for example, Jessie Frizzle. I happened to work on the same team with her now at Microsoft which we did not either of us know that the other one was going there when I had her keynote, Dev Ops Days Minneapolis last summer and then just a couple months later it was like, oh, you're going to Microsoft? What team? We're going to the same team. This is fantastic. That's great. But I bring her up as an example because I think that if you, no matter how long you've been in tech and she's younger than I am and has been in tech a shorter amount of time and yet she both contributes solid technical content. She has commits in the Linux kernel but she also makes sure to put information out there to help other people. I think that's what I look up to and what I try to emulate is it's great to be technical but we also have to be human. I love that. Thank you so much for stopping by theCUBE and sharing your story and congrats on the award. Thank you so much. We thank you for watching again. Lisa Martin on the ground with theCUBE at Google for the Cloud Now Top Women in Cloud Awards. Thanks for watching.