 All right, so we've got Alexis, Ben, Brian, Camille, and Quentin. Go ahead. We'll kick things off. Alexis, are you there? Yeah, hi there. Welcome back, everybody. I don't know if, like, like me, you've done much work over the last few weeks. I've come back and mostly been waiting through my email. So I think we may, we may not have moved a great deal forward from where we were in the last year sequel. But I can tell you that some people have been trying to work on the six document, the categories document as best we can. We'll talk about that today. Taylor, could you start taking us through the deck, please? Thank you. Excellent. Cool, keep going. Okay, we've got to the by now standard slide about conferences. Chris, why don't you issue us with instructions here? Okay, yeah, yeah, just a quick reminder, CFP closes for KubeCon Europe this Friday. So get all your submissions in and we'll hopefully see a lot of you in Barcelona in late May. Other than that, we are doing events in China and North America later with the dates and look for some news from us on kind of Kubernetes days and cloud native days events in the near future. So the days events are, as I understand it, trying to open up to a different way of having a conference which is more like a community conference. Like what like the day one keep comes like a few years ago, less community, a little bit more regional support, fewer air miles. That's basically the plan. Kubernetes days will still be kind of officially supported by the foundation. Cloud native days will be community run with minimal support from the foundation, targeting new geos, areas and stuff. So I mean, as this is one of the places where the quote unquote community for CNCF gets together, I will ask everybody to please please tell everyone that you know that there are these community events springing up. They don't have to just be about Kubernetes. If you are in a place where you want to do a community event or you want to know what's going on, get in touch with Chris and also events at CNCF.io and ask how you can help or what's happening and let's get more of these things going on. Yeah, reach out if you want to help out. So we're more than happy to hear feedback. And the model can be anything from, you know, CNCF do a lot of the work to community does a lot of the work and CNCF provides quote unquote behind the scenes help so that you know you can get some of the administrative stuff done back off billing. It's really a range of models work, but we want the community to be front of house. So reach out to us and we'll talk. Okay. Elections. I'm happy to kind of walk through this really quick too so Taylor go to the timeline slide. So we're currently in the election voting portion of the TOC election so the governing board selected candidates are voting and their election closes on January 22, which we'll know the results for and the end user slot is going through the same process and will close their election on January 22 to elect their end user representative. So we'll know by the next TOC meeting in February how things go and we'll make sure to let everyone know and we'll think about potentially how to run the next meeting to potentially give to see members some time to kind of reflect on the experience for ones that are outgoing and then also introduce folks that are incoming. It's not like a blame that sounds perfect. Cool. So the plan is to have the next TOC meeting will have the past and future to see will be on the call. Yeah, I would like to kind of run it that way just to give people some time to reflect on the experience introduce new folks and so on. Yeah, I think that's an excellent idea and then maybe we go through any outgoing TOC members in particular can give them an explicit opportunity to reflect on. Yeah, I think it's perfect. I think it'd be a good idea to get something in writing as well and get a kind of a tradition of doing that so we can hopefully accumulate some wisdom. I mean, I know we didn't we we we've got potentially a lot of turnover coming up. So hopefully this is not a problem that we're going to have going forward. Yeah, great. Thanks. So Brian, I think you just decide us all a bunch of work. Thanks. Well, not necessarily. I think let's look at what the the the complexion is of the new TOC, but I would say for and I would view it as kind of the the last work for any outgoing TOC member is to write up their thoughts as to the future TOC. Cool. Yeah, I have an emeritus file in the TOC repo we could potentially do it there. I'll think about it before the next meeting. I think, yeah, let's do that, Chris. I think that's perfect. That's a great idea. Thank you. Okay, so the working group slash CIGS categories. What happens here is that we had a face to face meeting about this document at KubeCon. Several people have volunteered to help work on it are indeed doing so, including Erin from Red Hat slash the other company, Matt Farina, who's well known for his work on Helm, Quinton from Huawei. I think Brian, you couldn't make it. There are a few other folks and Alex from storage OS, another one that's bringing to mind. The work that we are doing is still in the main doc and it's still honestly a bit of a mess also Sarah was there as well. We are trying, however, to be quite focused in terms of delivering an updated document for you to review. So do we have Quinton on the call or Alex on the operating model? Do you want to just say a few words about what you've done so far and what you want to do next just to get that section cleaned up? Sure. Hi, it's Alex here. So I just posted a link to an updated copy of the document just to, which I made just to make it a little easier to edit and I just changed the operating model content there. And it reflects some of the discussion we had in the face to face in Seattle. And kind of locks in a bit more detail around the membership of the proposed SIGs, their roles, how the different roles get elected. And also I put in a short section around retirement if we want to close down a SIG say after because it's inactive or perhaps because it's not operating well. So all the details should be in the link that's attached to the main documents. Thank you. And then is Erin or Matt here to talk about work on the other section? Yeah, I'm here and I think Matt's here as well. Matt put in the bulk of the work. I don't want to take much credit for it. I just did a lot of the review. I think it's a good start. I think maybe Matt and I need to meet and go through it together to see what portions are missing or get some feedback. Matt, you want to expand on that? Sure. I mean, if you read the doc, the goal is to try to be rather explicit in what needed to the kinds of things along with examples. Just to try to help folks understand and approach the difference between white papers, roadmaps, and I'll try to look at what would be useful outputs for whom in that. I would appreciate feedback on it if anybody says, well, I'm not sure why or how as well, because of course whatever's in my or somebody else's head may not always convey real well to somebody on the other side and getting that out. So please do that. But yeah, Erin, you and I probably need to get together for another pass on this together. That's the next step. Yeah, I think it's a good start outlining and I'm not sure you mentioned what portion we were working on, Lexis, but we're doing the responsibilities of the SIG and what we feel like our work items that should come out of that interaction and how the formation may be in a little bit of governance of how that works. So just to clarify to anyone else who was unclear. Thank you. Yeah, it's the responsibility section or if you like also that deliverables and one of the things that came out of our discussion face to face is that the concrete examples are helping here. I think Justin Cormack contributed an example around security enhancing some other people's suggestions as well and Sarah had some ideas there as well. So you know we do want examples to bring this to life to convince people this is the right way to go. If you want to help Erin and Matt on the responsibilities and deliverables please contact them directly by email and try and get on a call to keep improving that section. If you want to work on the operating model section contact Alex and Quinton. Brian, do you want to do some work on this document as well because if you want to be the kind of overall editor to clean up the sections that would be super helpful. I confess to being under water with other things at the moment. Yeah, sure I can give that shot. Thank you. I'd be really great if you can do that. You just need somebody to kind of wade through and delete stuff that's out of date and generally tidy it would be super helpful. We'll send this if you just create a new one actually helps you which way which way around. Thank you. Okay, anyone else have any questions about this document anyone want to volunteer for anything anything else about six and categories I know there's the two big questions around. What's the sort of responsibility dividing line and which six are we going to do first, but I think those will come out in the wash so anyone else good questions or offers for help. I'm just wondering these documents that end up with hundreds and hundreds of comments and then sometimes end up being difficult to read and difficult to, you know, digest what's really there and what's not etc. I'm wondering whether it isn't worth having just like a weekly, you know, we're for the half hour or one hour thing until this is done just so that everybody's in the same place and can talk at high bandwidth about whatever else is outstanding. They tend to drag on and on. Yes, we'll end up with a document that is one person's thoughts and nobody else's read at the 17th time after it was revised and nobody agrees with the document. Thank you for suggesting that I was actually thinking that we should have a call I was wondering if it would be suitable for everybody who's volunteer to welcome it to meet at this time next week to have a session on it. That works for me. This is Matt. Yeah, that works for me. This is Aaron. Aaron, would you mind just doing the calendaring for that or Matt? We could set something up. Thank you very much, Chris. Okay, so let's move on please Taylor to the next slide. Okay. Yeah, no, we're just typical backlog. I think last time we met before the holidays there was essentially a explicit decision on core DNS graduation. I believe John was okay moving forward but I don't think he's on the call today I could be wrong but I just kind of wanted to bring this up to discussion because if we're okay with this moving forward then I'll just kick off the vote now that everyone's back from the holidays. Yeah, I'm here and I'm still fine with it. Go ahead. Great. Thank you, John. Cool. We'll do any, any other questions or thoughts, concerns. So, other than this graduation, there's questions here about key cloak and CRI I mean, for me, for my part, I'm, I'm generally happy to reopen the presentations of projects. I know that we haven't got the sickness work done but I think that, you know, the, as the to see changes hands is going to be a bunch of new people to look at this stuff anyway. And I think that we should just get going. We've been holding up the projects and it's been frustrating for them so unless anyone violently objects I suggest we conclude a couple of presentations in the next to see that there was also two more graduations that were in discussion, I think it was container D and tough. Yep. And maybe another one of our midst I can't influence the other all on the project dashboard. Right. Yeah, and all of the projects asked for graduation reviews just before coupon. I suggest we prioritize over new projects. Okay. I agree. Previously, we discussed having essentially two tracks we have presentation project presentation track, which would be whoever wanted to find out about new projects presenting would go to that. And then this meeting which would, which would have some presentations to do we want to stick with that idea. I think that's one of the great things and the problem we had last time was that we ended up spending the majority of the time on presentations and didn't get any of the other work done. The motivation was to try and keep the velocity behind this meeting without eating a word with purely presentations. Just a thought. I think we decided that last time I just want to make sure if we still with that or have changed our minds. If we take the same document over to another call. What other major work you can undertake on this call during the transitional period, I don't know, I mean, we do have the graduation requests and I think that's a good opportunity to check whether our graduation criteria are sufficient or not. Yeah, there are advantages to looking at them all at the same time I think. There was all the project health related stuff. I think we're talking about identifying gaps in our, in our portfolio of projects, all those kinds of things. portfolio gaps should should we hope we addressed when we start building up the six they can focus on that. I think project health is one that the TOC does need to attend to. I'm not sure what we should be doing about making that into a structured effort though. Do we have the bandwidth to look at that and graduation and six, I don't know. I think as a short term, you know, for the next couple of weeks to do presentations at the center of this meeting is fine, but I think as a long term strategy, it probably well the new TSE can decide but probably make sense to make sure that we have enough time to do all the non project presentation related stuff. Yes, yes, we're hoping that the six will help us with some of the. Yeah, I think so I think let's figure out how that works. And then after the six are reassess. Yeah, for project health, I think we could do some of that discussion on the mailing list. We did quite a bit of work on the dashboards and I could share some updates there and kick a discussion off to the TOC list for for community feedback. Does the cryo proposal need much discussion? Are there questions about that? Are people aware of it? It's new came over the holidays so probably not. Yeah, I didn't know anything about it, but I can read up. Yeah, I'll send a reminder email to the TOC list basically with the full backlog and ask folks to kind of comment individually, especially with the holidays, some things came over so we could go with that approach. Yeah. So for project health on the list, Chris, will you kick it off and chef at it please. Yep. Yep. I think the dashboard is certainly a big step forward. I'm still really, really concerned that we're missing some really important things. If you go back to the notes on the TOC call we had, I think it was back in October in the minutes that were taken as a few notes on health. And people had some fairly strong views. I think it really comes down to being imaginative and proactive and spending time on it. And then also having a high discipline in terms of reporting publicly back to the TOC on this call, how the projects are doing. I know that you've been doing a lot of stuff in the background. I think if you push some of that into the foreground it will be good for everybody to get into that habit. Sounds good. Okay. Can we move on to the next slide. Just a quick reminder, summer code season for a lot of projects if you're interested in participating. Go to that, you know, link and you're able to pull request mentors and ideas. So we'll be reaching out to all the projects pretty soon with formal instructions. Okay. Cheryl. Yes. Hi, this is Cheryl and happy 2019. So I want to give an update of what I'm planning for the end user community over the next two quarters. So you can see the goals there. We want to increase the number of end user talks at cube con. We want to connect end users with similar organizations. We want to make sure that the projects and the end users are communicating and have opportunities to connect face to face. And the overall goal is to ensure that end users voices are well represented. And that fundamentally, these organizations are successful when they're adopting cloud native. So I've got a few slides to describe the programs and then I'll open up to any feedback. So the first one to increase the number of end user talks at cube con. And I've started offering individual feedback to some end users on their talk submissions, just to make sure that they're cleaned up and nicely presented. So if you are an end user CNTF member, and you're submitting a talk for Barcelona, and you can get in touch with me and I can give you a bit of feedback on your talk submission before it comes out. Next slide please. We're also starting up some end user sigs. So end user sigs will be targeted at a specific vertical example finance or horizontally, such as developer experience. And these will be closed to members of the CNTF end user community. And similarly to Kubernetes or CNTF sigs, there'll be one off GitHub. There'll be a private call one hour monthly. So this is more an FYI that this is happening. But we're going to try and make sure that as end user sigs develop, they'll probably be a bit more informal than the Kubernetes sigs. But as they develop, we'll try and get feedback to go back to the projects as well. Next please. And end user forums are a way for projects and the TOC to talk to end users directly. Now I'm going to kick off in a few weeks time, probably in February, and it will replace the end user monthly calls, which right now their projects can present end users there. But I want to provide a more structured forum for projects and for the TOC to explicitly set an agenda and ask questions of end users if they want to talk. So that's something that I'm going to kick off just to look out for that in a couple of weeks time. Next is a end user partner summit. So this is going to be a pre event at cube con explicitly for end users who are members of the CNTF end user community, plus a few invitees from the TOC and project maintainers and ambassadors, depending on what the community is looking for. This is another FYI that we want to do this so that end users have a place to meet face to face and discuss the challenges they're facing and learn from each other and how to overcome those. And then the fifth one, which we've, we started at cube con Seattle was is a cube con recruiting booth for end users who are struggling to find the right talent to grow their organizations. And so if you are an end user and you're interested in coming to cube con and you're looking for people to hire, then the recruiting booth is something that we want to make sure as many end users as possible will take advantage of. Next slide please. And I'll take a pause there and see if anyone has any thoughts. This is Matt free and I do have one request. When you set up the forums or other places you want the projects to engage in. Can you email the maintainer lists for those projects. So that the maintainers are aware many of them don't monitor the TOC call and don't often come here. But if they're directly emailed to their lists, many of them are on the list at CNTF.io. That'll make them aware of it. I know for some of the stuff of Kubernetes and helm where I engage in. I'm actually starting lately to wonder how do we connect with some of these end user communities. And so we've got folks who are really interested. And so if we know something's coming, we can craft something to put on an agenda and start to connect and talk through it. We'd really like that opportunity. Definitely. Yeah, I'm very happy to make sure that these go out to project maintainers on the mailing list. I think the end user partner summit idea is great. It sounds super useful and I would be very excited to send people to that or even attend it myself. So I'm glad that that definitely feels like a good idea if we can, if you can get good wide participation of, you know, maybe, you know, maybe even going a little bit beyond people who are always active in the user community calls to really getting good representation of people that are using all these products and, you know, want to share ideas with one another. Yeah, and I'm really hoping that this will be a successful event. And for the moment it's going to be restricted to members of the CNCF and user community, rather than being open to all end users or being completely open. I'm going to send around some more information about that and registration should open in February. I think my, my suggestion is, you know, if you're, if you're spinning this as a unconference gathering. Those are, you know, well, those are almost always, you know, invite only events. I definitely think that you we should think about broadly like who are people who are not just in the end user community but we know are kind of active end users that we may want to entice to become more active with CNCF and who may bring a lot of value to an event like this. I think, you know, I think that could be a useful way to extend. I'm definitely not suggesting this to be an open invite or open whoever wants to sign up, but I would suggest being a little bit more broad thinking a little bit more broadly I guess about who you could who you invite beyond people who are already in the end user community of CNCF officially. Yeah, I mean if you're going to make an effort to have lots more end user presentations at KubeCon and coach the speakers. They may wish to attend the end user free event like the Airbnb speaker from Seattle for example. I mean, it's, I'm very happy to make to invite people if you have, if there are people who would be a good sort of strategic person to engage your companies to engage or organizations really happy to invite, invite those to join. Great. Thanks. And Camille I think your comment actually applies more broadly than just this case I think that's one of the threads that we've sort of come across is generally to try and be more of a cool oriented model for you know whether it's presenters at conferences or projects etc is for us to make conscious decisions about pulling in the ones that we want as opposed to the whole sort of paid play model which is people who come along with their money and use the CNCF to promote whatever it is they want to promote. Awesome. Great. Anybody else. If not then I'll hand it back to you like this. Thanks so much Cheryl that was really great. Next slide. I think this is a no section. Yeah, this is all on hold for WGs. And then the next slide. Thank you. That means we're done today. Everybody can go back to going through backlog in their inboxes. Yeah. Any other questions. Well we have a little time. Any comments, feedback. We'll close it off then and give some people give people some time back and see everyone in in early February. Okay. Cool. Take care. Bye.