 From Burlingame, California, it's theCUBE. Covering SumoLogic Illuminate 2019, brought to you by SumoLogic. Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the SumoLogic Illuminate conference. It's at the Hyatt San Francisco Airport. About 700, 800 people full house in the keynote earlier today. All about, you know, kind of operational process, monitoring all this crazy data that's being kicked out of the cloud and IoT and all these crazy next-gen applications. We're excited to have a very close friend of mine, CEO of the very hot companies. Kamal Shah, the CEO of Stackrocks. Kamal, great to see you. Thank you, great to be here, Jeff. Absolutely. So for folks that aren't familiar with Stackrocks, give us the overview. Sure, so in a nutshell, we do Kubernetes security. And so as we've heard all day today, enterprises are deploying microservices, containers, Kubernetes, and we do security for your cloud-native infrastructure. So how does security work for Kubernetes versus security for other things? Yeah, so, you know, the use cases for security or the mission for the security team is the same, right? You got to harden your environment to prevent the bad guys from getting in. Right. And you have to make sure that despite your best efforts, if somebody does break in, that you catch them before they do any damage, right? But how you do security has to evolve for the cloud-native stock, right? It has to understand that containers are immutable at ephemeral infrastructure. You have to understand that it's not just about the container, it's also about the orchestrator and specifically Kubernetes. And it's also about making sure that you seamlessly integrate with DevOps, processes, automation, or workflow. So it requires a fundamentally different approach to security than traditional security tools. So, you know, we talk a lot about the increasing attack area that's offered by IoT, right, and the increasing attack area that's offered by all these APIs and all these interconnected applications. But I've never heard anyone really talk about containers or orchestration as kind of a new attack surface. Is that we stop paying attention? Is that something that you're seeing happen? It's something that is starting to emerge. And we've seen some high-profile breaches at a large next-generation electric car company and a large shopping site where misconfigurations led to security breaches in the Kubernetes environment, right? And Kubernetes ecosystem also did a CUBE security audit. And so, I think we're going to start to hear a lot more because there's more and more applications that are being deployed in production. It's creating a new attack area. And as the old saying goes, the predators go where there's food in the system. And so if you're not proactive about it, I think it's going to really hurt as you deploy containers in Kubernetes. So we hear over and over and over again about breaches because people misconfigure stuff. That just seems to happen, whether it's a database or this, that and the other. And I think we can pretty much safely assume everyone's going to get breached if they haven't got breached already because we hear about it all the time. But how do you catch them fast, limit the damage and try not to have too much vulnerabilities? Exactly. And so, the use cases for what we do around Kubernetes are the same, right? It's vulnerability management, it's configuration management. And we just did a study around state of container in Kubernetes security and misconfiguration was the number one concern because the reality is that Kubernetes is that a lot of knobs and each knob has multiple options. So if you're not careful, you can really misconfigure your environment and make it so much easier for attackers. Right, right. And that's precisely what happened at the two examples I cited earlier. So misconfigurations is important, runtime security is important, and also compliance. Let's not forget about compliance, right? And so you have to make sure that you meet your PCI, HIPAA, NIST, and CIS benchmark standards for this cloud native stock, right? So what we're seeing is that these are all becoming very, very important. And as a result, it's increasing awareness as Kubernetes becomes more prominent. Right. And then they're creating and tearing down hundreds, thousands, millions of these things at a meticulous pace, right? I mean, exactly. I mean, you know, Kubernetes came out of Google, they open sourced it, and it's really what allows you to deploy and manage containers at scale, and apparently they manage hundreds of millions of containers a day using Kubernetes. It's incredible. Oh yeah, I saw a statistic that Google launches four billion containers per week. There you go. And that was from a presentation, actually from a 4.1.1, unless from like two years ago. Yes. So one can only imagine the scale. And you know, we are also seeing not quite four billion containers per week, but we are seeing thousands and tens of thousands of containers at scale at companies everywhere. And they're all deployed in production, and now they're waking up to security, right? So the good news here is that they're not waiting for breaches to happen before they solve the problem, but there's still a lack of awareness. And what SumoLogic has done today with that announcement around continuous intelligence for Kubernetes just increases the awareness around, hey, we have to solve observability, which is logs, metrics, and tracing, which is what Sumo does, and security for your cloud-native infrastructure stack. Yeah, I mean, the automation is so important, right? I mean, you can't do any of this stuff with this exponential growth of data, exponential growth of pushes, of new code releases. There's so many pieces in this. So automation is a huge piece of the puzzle. Automation is paramount, and with this new infrastructure, there aren't enough security people to solve this. So security has to become everybody's responsibility. And the only way we're going to solve this is to automate it. And it also has to integrate with your DevOps processes and automation and workflows, because if you don't, then the DevOps body is going to reject the security organ, right? And so it has to be seamless in the way you deploy it. It's interesting that you say that, because we go to RSA, 40,000 people, more vendors than you can count. I mean, it bulges Moscone to the absolute edges, but everyone says over and over and over again that security's got to be baked into the entire process from beginning to end. It's not a bolt-on and can never be successful on a bolt-on. So it surprises me there. You say that still a lot of people are kind of behind the curve. Well, I mean, if you think about it, even though they say that, right? If you're in a traditional monolithic application, you go spend six months building it, and then you can go spend a couple of weeks or a month hardening and putting security around it. But when you're launching applications every six hours, you can't spend six days addressing security, so it has to be built in. And speaking of RSA, if you recall, last year, the big talk at RSA was around AI, right? Everything was AI-driven security. My prediction, my bold prediction for this RSA, it's going to be all around Kubernetes security. Yeah, well, it's applied AI. Applied AI for Kubernetes, and that's what you need. No, it's just, I always feel for like, you know, this ISO, just walking the floor at RSA, going, you know, where do I begin? I mean, where do I spend my money? How do I prioritize? It's kind of like an insurance problem. You can't insure to the end degree. You got to have a budget, but you know, how do you deploy your assets? And it's got to be super, super confusing. It really is. And I think what we are seeing is that CISOs are relying on their dev and IT ops teams, right? They are partnering with the VP of platform, VP of infrastructure, VP of engineering, because when you think about this new world, security is really, the ownership of security is now shifting from the information security, security teams to dev ops teams, right? So security teams still drive policy, and they still want to make sure they do the trust and verify, but the implementation of security is now being owned by dev ops teams. So it's a big cultural shift that's going on in organizations today, and CISOs have to realize that it's no longer just them, but they had to partner with their dev ops counterparts to effectively address security for this cloud native stock. So tell us a little bit about the relationship with Sumo. How do the applications work together? What's the solution look like when the two solutions are brought together? Yeah, so Sumo has been a great partner. We have several joint customers. The one way, the simplest way to think about this is that Sumo does observability for Kubernetes. So that's logs, metrics, and tracing. And we do security for Kubernetes, right? So we are the yin to the yang. And what we do is we have taken all the intelligence we get from security and we feed it into the Sumo dashboard. So Sumo customers get a single pane of glass, not just for the observability data, but also for the security violations, whether it's for vulnerability, so whether it's for configuration, or whether it's for runtime threats, right? And you get it all in one single place. Right. So I just want to get your take on kind of this rise of the momentum behind hybrid cloud that we've seen recently. Big announcement at Google Cloud Show with Anthos. Big announcements between VMware and Amazon. And so it always kind of swings back and forth. It was all into public cloud and now there's a little bit of a pullback in hybrid. But that's terrific for you because the fact of the matter is workloads should run where they should run. They don't really care. It's what's appropriate, horses for courses, right? Precisely. So we've seen the shift from public cloud to multi-cloud and then from multi-cloud to hybrid cloud. And the underlying infrastructure that makes that a reality are containers and Kubernetes, right? And that's why we've seen this tremendous momentum on Kubernetes. And what we are seeing is customers that want to give their dev teams their flexibility to pick their favorite cloud or even do it on premises, their private clouds. But they want to bake in a single security solution that gets integrated no matter where you run your infrastructure and that's integrated back to your Sumo dashboard, right? So you have visibility across all dev teams, all your application infrastructure, regardless of where they're running, right? And there's one security standard that gets implemented. And that is really... And I think that's the future because that's how you don't want to be beholden to a one cloud provider. You want flexibility, you want choice. And again, Kubernetes allows you to do that. Well, and the whole thing becomes more autonomized, right? Atomic memory, atomic compute, atomic store, throw that on IoT and edges and now you're starting to distribute all those bits and pieces all over the place, which is going to happen. It is going to happen for sure. All right, so looking forward, I can't believe we're almost through 2019. It still shocks me every day. Like at the calendar, but what are some of your priorities looking forward? What are you guys working on? What do you see coming down the pike? Yeah, so you touched on a couple of these. So today there's a lot to talk around Kubernetes. We are seeing Kubernetes also get deployed in IoT and edge devices. And we're also seeing that being used to manage serverless infrastructure. And so we're going to continue to evolve as Kubernetes evolves. The other big trend that we are seeing in the market today is around service mesh, right? And so people talk a lot about Istio and LinkerD and using service mesh as your policy framework to drive consistent policies across applications. So that's another area where we are innovating very rapidly and that will become, I think, more and more real in enterprise deployments over 2020. Yeah, well, congratulations. Come all to you and the team. I think you picked a good horse to ride on. I should say ship, right, with Kubernetes. Thanks for taking a few minutes. No, thank you for having me and I can officially say now that I've checked off one of my professional bucket list items which is to be on theCUBE with an old friend. So thank you for having me, Jeff. We'll check that box for a minute. All right, he's Kavalaam Jeff. You're watching theCUBE where it's SumoLogic Illuminate from the Hyatt San Francisco Airport. Thanks for watching. See you next time.