 Welcome to JSA TV Europe and our live two-day event on 2023 predictions. I'm John Marshall and joining me today is Amsterdam based time growth, managing director of the Dutch Data Center Association, managing director of Digital Gataway to Europe, and chairman of Kickstart Europe. Stein, it's always a pleasure speaking to you. It's been a few months since I saw you in Amsterdam for one of the first face-to-face industry events of the year, even post COVID, full stop. So before we get into those things, give us a spin of the major trends that have defined the data center space in Europe this year. Well, it's good to see you also, and it's good that we are back to normal, back to physical events, because I think that even though we're in a digital world, we work in a digital world, it's always good to meet each other face-to-face. So also happy to meet you at Kickstart in February. If you look at the trends in Europe, also in the Netherlands, I think there is a lot of focus on the one hand energy, on the one hand sustainability, and thirdly regulation. So these three things are impacting each other very much. Of course, due to the crisis, we see that there is a faster moving activity on all areas. So that is giving us a lot of work, a lot of adjustments. But luckily, I think as a sector, we are more and more in contact with the governments. But these are the three, I think, main areas. Interesting. As we move into 2023, and maybe been more Dutch specific, how do you see the nation change next year or evolve around data sensors? Well, I think that the Netherlands is not different than other countries. We have, of course, the energy prices are way up than the years before. There is a growing focus on sustainability. And that is coming back to us. So you see that governments are more and more are looking at data centers, although they sometimes are not fully up to speed with what's happening and how it's working. So there are more and more policies coming. More and more policies being built. But that requires still a lot of input. And sometimes the government is open to that. Sometimes it needs some extra attention. Sometimes there is a populist view on certain things. This will take time, effort to manage this all, but this is really taking our time almost all day. I think it's just more you mentioned about the populist view because I think there's so much education that needs to go. Not just we need our sector connecting data center operators with other layers of the industry, consulting, finance and all that. Then, of course, educating governments and regulators. But then it's the wider public. And the Netherlands has experienced that a lot with the wider public, especially in Amsterdam. How do you see that going? Are they cyclical to begin with? How is the public opinion changing in the Netherlands as well? Well, I think that more and more we focus a lot on facts because the populist view, the only thing you can counter is by showing how it's actually in terms of facts, in terms of mechanisms. And so we focus a lot on having conversations with one-on-one conversation with these politicians, government workers, but also providing publications on just putting the facts down of water use, of energy use, power use, energy efficiency. And then you see that there is actually a different side to the story. And I think that people are also, and you see the narrative is also changing. They also understand that with the digital world that we're moving to and the new economy, which is digital, sustainable, open, inclusive. Yeah, digital is a really big component of that. The big transitions cannot be done without digital, and digitization. And digitization needs digital infrastructure. But that's a process that we need to go through. And I'm very happy that in the Netherlands we now have 10 people working full-time for the association. And we need these people to counter that. Other countries don't have a developed association at this moment. So we're trying also to help these countries, but there's a lot of work to being done on that part. Okay, so are you going to sort of create new digitization associations in other countries? Just take the Dutch word out. Yeah, well, we helped in the last, when we started eight years ago, there were four associations in Europe. Now there are 24. So a lot of things have happened in Europe. And I'm very happy that there's now an Austrian one, a new Polish one, Italy is coming, the Spanish is really doing well. So you see in most of the countries in Europe we have now associations. And we all talk to each other. So every month we have a call, and we're stepping up the activities on sharing information, on working together on the common issue. Because what we have noticed from each other is that 80% of the issues is all the same. So why not work together on that? And also the European Data Centers association is also very much focused on bringing this all together and really get some efficiency in all the work that needs to be done. It's not every day that we hear that countries in Europe are working together towards the greater good. No, it's a challenge of course always because many of these associations are just starting. This industry is also not known to having associations. So it's also like a mindset that needs to be changed. But I think that with the speed that we're going more and more, the big firms all understand it now. They have people or they're getting people for the public affairs matter. And yeah, we're doing the best that we can. And that's very good to see how the interaction is at this moment. Okay, so going in and you've already briefly mentioned it, but going to 2023, which is just a couple of weeks away now, it's gone very, very fast this year. What's the Dutch Data Center Association going to be focusing on beyond what you've already mentioned, especially around regulations and education? Well, I think that we are always have been one of the key hubs in Europe, the digital gateway to Europe as we call it. But we try to go into the next step and that's the next generation, next-gen digital gateway. So that is a sustainable gateway. Recently, there are two major internet exchanges in the Netherlands, the AMSIX and the NLEX. The NLEX upgraded their hub to 800 gigabit per second. And this is a first that, but with that upgrade, it also lowers the energy use for the core, which is, I think, the steps that we need to take. We need to create and grow in a more sustainable way. And I think that we in the Netherlands, we're now, for instance, have 20 residual heat projects ongoing in the Netherlands. So that's really a lot. And really focusing on every part to make it on the one hand sustainable so that we get also the OK from the general public that we actually serve a purpose here. And that we do it in a sustainable way. That's very important if you want to be, if you want to go to the next generation. And I think we're doing a lot of work to get the Netherlands into that perspective. Yeah. And you are home to a lot of companies that are doing that, especially around immersion cooling and all that. And we've interviewed another company based in the Netherlands as well, which is kind of driving that market. And it's all very interesting. But what's also interesting is what you've got coming up in about two months. So kickstart Europe. I mean, you're very quickly, even with the COVID interregnum in the middle, you've very quickly became an established event platform across Europe. So you are now at the top of the calendar for thousands of people across the continent to come to Amsterdam maybe for two or three days and exchange ideas, network, learn, and party as well, celebrate a little bit. Tell us about the plans for 2023. Well, we're now moving. When we started six years ago, we wanted to have a good event in Amsterdam. Yeah. Expectations were blown as if we'd grown to becoming, I think, one of the premier events in Europe. And actually, we now are moving to the largest auditorium of the Evention Center exhibition center. So that is really cool. And we're very proud on that. And we're also very proud that we have basically all CIOs, EMEA, VPs of the large co-location providers in the morning program. So we basically have them all. So at first, we wanted to have a CEO panel. Now we need to have two CEO panels. It doesn't fit anymore, which is a very cool thing. And we're immensely proud of the support that we get from so many companies, so many partners, and also so many of this high-level management that they want to speak for at this event. It's definitely interesting. So how many people are you expecting for next year? Give us a little bit more of Amsterdam 2023. Yeah. We're expecting around 1,500 of these. So, yeah, again, I think 30%, 40% growth. And actually the commercial program, the partner print program is already filled in. So that went really fast. We wish we were in an even bigger location. But anyway, that's a big luxury. We have a welcoming evening and then the normal one-day event. So everybody is at the same place at the same time during that day. We now have in the afternoon, not two streams, but three. And we're adding an international stream where we focus on what's happening in the east of Europe, the west of Europe, the north of Europe, and the south of Europe, and also on the European, the Brussels side of things. So it's basically investments, the trends on the technical trends that we're seeing, sustainability trends, and the trends in each country in Europe. So, yeah, the program is almost finished. So we're expecting next week to publish that. Okay. I'll be curious to see what's coming up with it. Sounds very interesting, especially the EU stream. I think that's very interesting with the regulations coming out of Brussels. And then, Stein, so if you want to learn more about and reach out about the Dutch Data Association, the Kickstart, and anything else you might be working on, how can people do that? Well, you can go to our website, www.dutchdatacenters.nl or kickstartconf.eu. These two URLs, you will find all the information about the event. You can register for the event. And if you have any other questions, please contact us and we're happy to help. Sounds good. Okay, well, Stein's growth. Thanks so much for your time. As for you, for our viewers, thank you for tuning in to JSA TV Live. Don't forget to check our social channels for more content. Until next time, happy networking. Goodbye. Thank you.