 We must start recording. All right, recording has started so we can proceed. So we have several items to discuss and I think the first one is on the agenda is to approve the minutes from the previous meetings but we only have the one the first, the minutes of the first meeting. Does anybody have any comment? I think we have the minutes of the 811 meeting as well that was in the. Oh, I didn't see. Those were uploaded very late today arena, those came in at about 3pm or something. Okay, so I must confess that the 811 minutes I did not see. I read the ones on eight for so shall we go one at a time and I can read it. I think we should do the eight for we might have to wait on the 811 but even before that we need a note taker. Yes, oh that's true. So anybody here for note taking. So here's a crazy question this meeting is recorded. Like, I understand someone needs to take minutes from it, but couldn't Joe review the meeting recording and take his minutes from that. Love it. There's that to Peggy just thrown it out there. It would also be an advantage to him because then he would know what happened. Okay, so I need to send him an email that he needs to make the minutes. So this this this recording, the recorded meeting today should be recording would stop tonight and it would be uploaded to YouTube tomorrow morning. So Joe should be able to review it at that point. And take his minutes from there. Okay. Okay, so I'm not going to take minutes. No, thank you. So the minutes from August 4. Anybody has any comment. So I still don't see the minutes from, hold on. I don't see the minutes from August 4, like they're not in the packets. They are there in the packet the previous. They're in last week's packet. Okay. I think if we can just put like everything for the one meeting in the same packet that would be great. That's the goal. If that didn't happen. We'll clean it up. So, I mean, do you see in the minutes it says this note is right here about that note pursuant to chapter 20 that the meetings connected remotely. So we can just read that from the minutes from for next time. Okay. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I remember that I read it at some point, but then I forgot. Thank you. Anybody has any comments and corrections for the August 4. Many minutes. I'm fine. So I moved to approve the minutes. Second. My love saying. I wasn't there. Do I approve minutes for a meeting that I didn't attend. You can abstain. I'll abstain. Any part. I approve. Thank you. I approve. Tracy. So the motion passes. So I have a question about the minutes before we bond. Do we think that these minutes are a sufficient detail for our purposes or. I think I know somebody used to take a lot of minutes right sometimes minutes can be super short and sometimes it can be super long and does this is a good balance for people. So this is a good question I looked at the files from 2011. I went into the town hall and did that and I found the minutes to be frustratingly short. So I looked at the documents. I found a lot of information. I thought there was very little real information in them. So in some on the one hand I'd say, oh no, we want more detail. But on the other hand, it's recorded. If somebody wants to go and see what actually happened, including us. We can do that. So I think it's okay. I think how it works is that only the written minutes are on record. So it is important, particularly for this body, to find out has that changed in terms of what is required by official bodies. So I know it seems like counterintuitive because it's video, but I believe only the minutes are entered as official record. Therefore, theoretically, you could get rid of video eventually, you know, archiving that type of thing becomes problematic. And I don't think our town has an official means of doing this, particularly within their kind of weird relationship with Amherst Media right now. So I would check to make sure that the video can be entered as an official record as well. Okay, we'll check. That's a good question. Also, I guess related to that, it's just in terms of, and you bring up a good point, it's just how much storage is required to keep all these meetings. If it becomes the official record, what's the time period for which it has to be stored? We have, because we're a government entity, we have unlimited storage on YouTube and Zoom. So we're not affected by that. So this video will be on YouTube until the end of time, until the end of YouTube. Well, I mean, I'll just say, because I work at UMass, and they were using online storage in the box. And when they set it up with the contract originally, they said unlimited storage for all. And then they realized, wait a minute, we have a really big campus and people are uploading terabytes and terabytes of data. And now it's gotten really expensive and we're going to change. And now you don't have a limited storage. So, I mean, just things change. But it's a great conversation for us to have. Yeah, now that's a good question and report back. Okay. And find out what's the official record? It's it matters in this case. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That was my concern, particularly because this routine happens also every 10 years. In the same way we went, Peggy went and went to look at the binder from 10 years ago. This won't happen in 10 years from now, again. So we want to make sure that all the information from this, this routine is again available next time. Marilyn, you have a comment? Yeah, I guess my comment is given Peggy's comment about the minutes that were so sort of sparse. Are they, you know, I guess, how important is it if that was precedent? Should this be okay as well? So my feeling is that much of the, what much of what happens at this meeting can be very sparse. This motion is, you know, was put forward or was passed by this. But some of the questions about policy or when we dig into which precincts we are doing why or whatever, I think it would be helpful to have some of that recorded for the public and just going forward. Why did we just, you know, for example, in 2011, somebody on the committee did not want to have a precinct that was solely students. And then they had a discussion and they all decided that was right. But nobody gave any pros or cons. Like I don't know why they decided that. I have no idea why that was important to anybody. So that's the kind of thing I think it would be helpful to have at least a little bit of information recorded so that we know now for the public now and also going forward. So I think since so much of the prior discussion, and I do apologize for not being it, you know, I was only there for an hour, was just sort of discussion of preferences and, you know, what we would like to do, but we didn't have any data in front of us. So it's hard to say, I mean, maybe what we want to do is when it comes to decision making of anything of substance that there be, it'd be more descriptive so that, you know, the next committee will have a better sense of. Did you comment? Yes, simply to add to that point, if you look at the sheet pertaining to your charge, it includes what you are to end up within the completion of this committee submitting. So it has some, you know, besides the report, it has to do with the process. And so you're supposed to submit, I don't know how detailed it'll be up to this committee, but how you came to your decision. So having those notes and of course having the recording will be ultimately I think important to, you know, your work. I think that's a great point too in terms of like as the town council looks at what the work of this committee or as the public looks at the work of the committee, they want it to be traceable back in terms of like how did we make decisions and so on. I mean, I don't think the members of the council are going to watch the videos again. But like if we had, I mean they can, but I mean if we had those kind of summaries available to the public, that would kind of show our thinking during the process and it would also make it more defensible if people have questions or concerns about it. So I mean, I think now that we are getting the census data, hopefully we'll talk about that more, the meeting. So I think that this is like where it becomes more important. I mean, before we didn't actually have the data, right? So some of them were like kind of pre-discussions about what we would do once we had the data and how we would make decisions. So maybe we can just share this with Joseph and tell him moving forward. We can request it. Tell me if you have a comment. I was just going to say do we need to recognize our new member and show that she's here? Oh, that's so, thank you. Thank you for joining us. I joined the meeting five minutes ago. I'm sorry, I didn't introduce her. No, of course not. It's so nice to see you all. Hello. I'm Mehak. I'm a student at UMass. So Tracy, I hope to see you. Yeah, I'll be a junior this year and I'm just really happy to be here and I'm a little lost, but I think I'll understand what everyone's talking about soon enough. So, yep. Welcome. Thank you. So to follow up with the agenda, I had for the discussion, I read the minutes from last time. So we want to have any comments about the minutes of 8-11. I'd like to postpone our like discussion and vote on us until the next meeting since I didn't review them before. All in favor? Oh, I can make a motion till that effect here. Okay. Somebody wants to second? I'll second. All in favor? Hi. I do think you have to do a roll call vote. Okay. Marilyn, Blosten? Aye. Tammy Parks? Aye. Peggy Shannon? Aye. Tracy Safian? Aye. Mehak Gelanity, I'm saying it, right? Yep. Aye. Irene Nojomne? Aye. So the motion passes to postpone the discussion of the minutes until next meeting. Okay. Do we have any, so the next item in the agenda is public comment. Do we have any attendees? We do not. Okay. And Sue did not pass along any public comment. It's from the public to me. So at this point, I do not think we have any public comment. Okay. Thank you. The next item on the agenda is our standing topic about discussion on rules and regulations, whether we want to change any way we conduct our meeting. And at this point, I don't have anything to bring in up, but if anybody wants to bring up, if not, we'll postpone discussion until next meeting. Tracy? So I get, the only thing I would ask is that maybe we could add an agenda item at the beginning just for announcements, like if there's any announcements. Okay. So these would be announcements from committee members, for example, or from the committee members voting or non-voting just because it's not public comment. Like if anybody had any updates that they had heard about. Okay. And I did also see language from one of the committees. I think ECAC, they did have language related to how long the public comment periods are. So if that becomes a concern with us, if we do start having more public participation, that they did address their language, they have a public comment period at the beginning of their meetings in the end. But even on the posted agenda, they have a disclaimer about how long that time can last because of the rest of the agenda. Okay. So I think it would be good if you have that comment that takes at hand in case we need to discuss it. Yeah, I can send it to you after the meeting. I just don't have it like with me right now. Okay. Thank you. So the next item on the agenda was is regarding the constitution regarding number of precincts and this is something Susan Oded was going to talk to Paul. She sent me something by email but I would feel more comfortable postponing until the next meeting when she is present in order to clarify any things that might show up. Okay. Was this a question of whether we could do... The question was related to the charter and section 10.7 that listed the number of precincts and then part of the discussion was related to a question that we had whether one precinct could be between two districts. So there were two items. Okay. So I would feel more comfortable to discuss it when Susan is here. On that second item though, I don't see any practical way that there could be... No, that one is... So we can just sort of dismiss that. Yes. But I do agree with you that the language of the charter is pretty confusing. Yeah. So... But I would prefer that she's here to discuss it. Okay. Now we get to the meet of the meeting. It's the census data. And I think Michael, you can read this in the package. I think the bottom line and this is one question that I have and I think probably is in the mind of everybody. The data came under 40,000 but within 2%, right? Of 40,000. So my question is do we... We're going to have to adapt precincts but do we need to create new precincts considering we are under 40,000? And my question is who makes the decision the number of precincts? Did you have your hand raised? I do have a question and since we're talking about the census data, when I read the packet for the state, it offered like training workshops to go through the census data. Has anyone within this body or folks within the town taken those workshops that the state has offered pertaining to the census data and redrawing of districts? I can respond to that. The nothing on the official data, we took a workshop in the beginning of April on the estimated data, basically them telling us, oh, you're going to need 12 precincts, based on the estimated data. And here's how you would do it. And they told us at that point, you can either redraw the precincts yourself or you can have the state do it. So it really wasn't a training. It was more of just kind of like an informational session. But I believe it was in last week's packet. There was an email from the state that I put in there. I'll have to look, let me double check. Yeah, where they reiterated that they were going to be re-delivering maps and re-offering things. I don't know if I would hold my breath on that, because I know that they're going to be drawing these maps for 300 plus cities and towns. But it's possible that they would be willing to do that for us. Okay, I'm just interested. Since they offered, I wanted to know, you know, had anyone on this body or within the town taking it. And so what you're saying, there was a preliminary workshop in April that was conducted and it was simply informational. Correct. And it was only using the estimated data. It was using that which was two plus thousand people off. You know, it said we were going to have a population of 41,000 plus and we ended up having 39,000. So ideally at that point in time, D, we would have had this body in place and you folks would have been able to participate in that, even that preliminary meeting. But I don't even think you folks were, I don't even know what the word is, but you folks weren't put in place in your current roles until what, late May, early June? I think it was May, yeah. Which at that point in time, the state was no longer doing meetings. They were completely booked out until August, so. Okay, thank you, Michael, for the clarification. I was just wondering as I went through that back and yet. So I think they, my understanding and I'll have to go back and look at that email that I believe I put in the packet last week. They are going to be delivering materials again to us like a preliminary map. We will probably choose not to use that, but I will clarify with them whether they are going to offer another training to all of us as a body as well. Okay, thank you. Tracy. So I have a related question. So because the final, the updated estimate came in under 40,000, right? So we can continue to have 10 precincts, is that correct? We don't need to go to 15 precincts. Technically, yes. What, what, okay. But would you recommend that we go to 15 precincts? Is that what you're saying? I don't know. It's, so I can't, I don't have a recommendation. Of course not. I can, I can, I can tell you that when the state looked at our 2010 precincts, I believe there was a precinct or two. I'm looking at some data here. Give me just a second. I believe there was a precinct or two that was close to 39, yeah, precinct one had 39,000 or 3,960 people in it. Precinct four had 3,933 people in it. When we were doing this preliminary review of things with the sense with the state, they saw those numbers and they said, oh, that's a big red flag to us. Like you're close to 4,000. You're not there, but you're close to it, which means if there's any development in the next 10 years within that precinct, you're going to be over that 4,000, which is going to be a big problem. So I reached out, when I received the final numbers from the Census Bureau and I created, when I calculated everything up, I sent an email to the state and I said, we are at 39,263 people. What is your recommendation as the state? Do we still need to increase precincts from 10 to X or can we stay at 10? And I have not heard back from them yet. And I'm sorry, can you just remind me what was our 2010 population? 3,000 or 37,800 and something. So it wasn't as close. I know it was 1,444 people above whatever we are now. Or below what we are now. Because it seems so, when you read the charter, the charter does, in terms of this body, the charter says that this body can meet in between the decennial census, too. Like whenever it's felt necessary to do redistricting, it does seem like a pretty big change. I mean, the fact that we had received emails from one of the counselors and so on that, and so some people on the council were thinking about like 15 districts or so. I mean, I think that might make sense and I do think Amherst is going to continue to grow. It's just to make sure that the people are aware of that that that is going to change. So that could be even something that we're putting into the press release, for example, explicitly just so that people understand that it's a bigger change. And we don't really want the counselor or anybody to be sort of shocked that even though we're under 40,000 that we still want to go forward and have 15 precincts. If that's what we decide. Then so let's Peggy and then Marlene and then I have a comment. So my question is, Mike, I feel a little bit hemmed in here by the state. If we have less than 40,000 people, we could technically do 10 precincts. And then they say it's a big red flag because of development. It's like we can't know what kind of development is going to happen in five or eight years. We have an idea about what might happen in the next year or two. And they may be maybe quite right that we would then end up going over 4,000. So I appreciate that we should look at that. But there's no way we can really know what would happen longer. And yet, yet they're saying well, there'll be a big problem. So is it really a problem? I don't know, Peggy, but I can tell you, I believe technically we are under 40,000. We have 10. We can divide precincts up. And as long as we're in plus or five, as long as we're under 4,000, plus or minus 5% of each other, and we are not dividing up any communal groups of people, we could probably squeak by. But I don't know, did any, I don't, maybe I should share my screen, but I don't want to completely derail things. But if there was a, there was an agenda item added, Irina put it together today, that was the 2010 population per precinct, compared to the 2020 population. And if you look at precinct 10, in 2010, it had 3,705 people. Now it has 5,446. So that is a huge jump in people, which there wasn't any development there. It was just the way that people were counted in that area. But if there is a brand new big development within, let's say, five years from now within a precinct, you could have an imbalance like that. And it's just something to consider. But I believe technically, Peggy, that we, because we're under 40, we could probably squeak by as long as we're under 4,000 per precinct and plus or minus 5%. Okay. Learning. So I guess my point is, the two precincts that had the red flags, they actually decreased in size. So I think it's just so hard to predict where we're going to be, that I would, I think it might be simpler just to go with the 10. But that's my opinion, rather than trying to increase to 15. Okay. Me, Tracy, and Tammy. So my concern is looking at the map that if we go to 15, there is one census block that has 2,500 and 12, right? So that's essentially one census block that would be a precinct. And part of the idea was to have a diverse, I think part of, at least this is what's discussed in the previous, and this is something that we should be discussing. But in the previous district, they made an effort so that not one person was only students. That there was a combination of students and year round. And if we go to 15 precincts, we're going to find ourselves more and more in that situation that we have precincts that are only students. Because it would be, if we have to find the combination and continuity and census blocks and things, we're going to find some that are, we're going to have several precincts that are only students. We could manage it maybe by combining in districts so that then they will rebalance using districts. But we're going to have a big imbalance. We're going to have some precincts that is year round for residents and some other students, only students, when if we go to 15. Just by looking at the numbers of the maps that they can, that's my, so Tracy, then Tammy and then Peggy. I think Tammy had her hand up before me, so I'd like to hear what you have to say. Okay. Thanks. So I was just looking at the numbers as well. And is the goal to be under 38, under the 5%, because like you were saying, five of the precincts in 2010 were over 38. And one, two, three, four, five, six in 2020 are over 38 or 4,000, four over 4,000 and two over 38. So it seems to me that we're very close to needing those additional precincts. But I have a, the other question I have is the districts. So if we, it's either five districts. So Town Council doesn't want to do 12 precincts and six counselors. We want to do five counselors and 15 precincts. Is that my understanding is that if we did six districts, there should be a charter commission to change the distribution of the counselors, because then would be only one counselor that large. Or that they would have to grow the council. They would have to expand the council to 15 people. Either they have to expand the council to 15 or they have, because in the charter says there are five districts. Right. But is there a problem with having six? You were saying they need to change the charter. Is there a problem with them changing the charter? I think it has to be a state, an active legislation, an active state legislation. I could be completely wrong there. Sue's not here. Sue would be the one that needs to know that, or they would know that. Okay. So it's between having 10 being very full 10 or moving to 15, a very low number at 15. And then I would assume that if you're going to do that low number at 15, then you would have combined polling places. Right. Because you don't have 15 polling places. In some locations where there's sufficient space, you could have combined polling places just like we have now at the high school. Okay. I was just trying to get a scope of what we're doing. So we're not going to go six precincts for doing five. It's between 10 and 15. I mean, we could ask with the council. I mean, because it isn't the charter, it's pretty involved to change the charter, which actually is a really good question. And that was a question that we had had that came up earlier in the agenda about the precincts about, because the charter also talks about 10 precincts. So is that something that's, you know, like the letter of the charter, and we can't alter that to be, you know, 12 precincts or 15 precincts. And if that, if that's stuck in the charter, then a change to the charter is a change to the charter. So it is possible that you could go to six districts. You know, if you're going to change the number of precincts, is it a big deal to change the number of precincts? I don't know. I mean, if you're going to change the number of precincts, is it a big deal to change the number of districts? I guess I had the idea that that was a thought, because then you could have one of the counselors representing students in the town. So there would be someone on the council who was a student or a represented student. Yeah. I mean, it's possible that even to change the number of the precincts would also involve sort of the same procedure. If it is stuck in the charter that you have to have the 10 precincts, then yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point. We would just have to find out how involved that is to make any kind of edits to the charter. And I do think that some types of changes, they do probably need to go all the way to the state house and be approved at the state level. And we may not have the time for that in this process. But my question was actually back to what Mike was mentioning about, you know, if we compare the 2010 population to the 2020 population and that so much of the growth, like over half of the growth is, or more than half, almost all the growth is in precinct 10, yet we haven't seen any new development in precinct 10. So my question is now that the census has released these quote, final numbers, how final are they? Like in terms of is somebody going to come back and say, like our town's going to be editing these figures or telling the census that they need to be edited. So we believe that that's actually I know that, you know, the maps got edited like after the DAB's work last time. But did the numbers all stay the same? The numbers stayed the same. People just were moved around Tracy, I believe last time. So this final number that we have the 39,000 number is like the number. It should be the number. Yeah. Yeah. Even if it seems weird that that precinct 10 grew so much. For example. Yeah. So precinct 10 is basically the southwest dorm, the southwest area of UMass. Right. Plus a few neighborhoods. Right. Yeah. Right. So I had questions about this as well. Is it that where the commons, the honors college is? Yeah. Yes. That's new development. Yeah. So that's what's at the new development. Stay on those colleagues. Oh, no, the honors college is not in precinct 10. I don't think I don't think it goes all the way there. Are you talking about the honors college across from like on across in the Mullen center? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. That's not precinct 10 ends before that. You want me to pull the map? Can you pull them up? Yeah. I thought that precinct 10 probably ended at Massachusetts Avenue. Well, it is on Massachusetts Avenue. So it's a question of whether it's in which side of Mass Ave. But one thing is those new dorms or those honors dorms too, the ones that they're building at the corner of Lincoln and Mass Ave. Is that graduate student housing? I don't know. No. Well, so it's replacing the Lincoln apartments and then. No, but there's nobody there. Yeah. But there were. There was in the last census. Okay. Yeah. So this is this is Massachusetts Avenue here. You know, this is University Drive. This is the area right here where there was a very high concentration of people. Right. So this is Prince House, Crampton House, McKinney House, John Adams House and Patterson House. Yeah, they're the different towers. Yeah, towers separate then. So Mike, if you move it to the right and then there's the Lincoln apartments, apartments to the right. Yeah. And then, okay, but that's going away. But then I believe that they're, well, they're building and replacing that as well as they're using part of this lot that goes to the north. Correct. So is that still in the same precinct? Let's look. So I don't. First of all, let me show you guys, I don't know if you folks saw this, but over here on the right hand side on the DAB page, there's an interactive map. Oh, nice. Thanks, Mike. Awesome. We could not put that in in the map packet. So go to resources, click on interactive map here. Anybody in the public can do this as well. And this takes them to an interactive version of the PDF map that I put in. You can zoom in and click on the polygons, right? You can click on the date on the poem. You can click on the polygon and these, these fields that pop up, these rows here, these are the population numbers. And they're coded by the Census Bureau. I didn't feel comfortable editing those. But I provided another document that shows what each one of these codes means. This is total population right here. This P1001. Oh, I see. So there are 2,512 people counted within this Census block right here. This value right here is people that were counted as one race. This is people that identified as white. This is people who identified, I believe, as Black or African American, and then so on and so forth. So there's another document in the packet that is, that refers to what each one of these codes means. Great. That's awesome. So, so that's at, you folks can go in there. I do want, while I'm here, I do want to show you a problem. And I found at least three of these problems already. It shows that there are 412 people on the Berkshire Dining Hall. I don't think that's the true. I think they're actually on the More House. And I found at least three examples of this on college campuses when I was looking around. So when we, when we're drawing boundaries, we need to be conscious of things like that. I hope that that's not the case in residential neighborhoods, but I'm betting it's more of a problem on college campuses. So you're keeping like a master list of all those like edits or something? Yes. Yes. And I'm going to reach out directly to the Census Bureau about those anomalies that I'm finding. Thank you for finding those. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. I want to be respectful. There's several hands up. Marlene, Peggy, and D, you had your hand raised before? I do. Yeah. I mean, yes. So why don't we start with D since she hasn't talked yet. And then we continue with Marlene and Peggy. That's okay. Okay. So all I was wanted to know was that there's some areas that are indicated in the Census as underreported. How will the committee account for those numbers, meaning that they're assuming that certain areas, apartment complexes, et cetera, that the data is not fully accounting for people who live there? Is there any way in which to look at those areas and account for these underreported areas? And should we take counsel from the state on that? Do you know what I'm talking about? That they're within the Census data, there's areas that they're indicating this is a, what a graphical or a location that they suspect is underreporting population. Any thoughts on that? And how should this committee account for it? Is there a way of overnaming the information from the underreporting area to the information that we have to pinpoint on the map to make sure to see which precincts? Yeah, Mike. So are those linked to the geography, like the shapefiles for those areas? So I guess my first question is, and I've heard the same thing, D, but I don't know enough about the details. So I believe one of the major areas of concern for underreporting is college students who live off campus. Because my understanding is the methodology for on campus was one way, but people who are off campus were free to just like, you know, anybody who owns a single family home or an apartment building or a two family home in Amherst, where, you know, you fill out the paperwork that you received in the mailbox or online. So the only method that I could think of would be to compare are there places where the numbers are drastically different from 2010 to now in apartment complexes? And in those places, we look to see what the difference is. Okay, I think it would impact minority majority districts as well, particularly for folks living in apartment complexes. So that's, you know, students are definitely a concern, but also, you know, ensuring that that's a balance as well. Yeah. But how would, did they have any suggestions how to go about? I would like if somehow, you know, and I know you've already done so much, Mike, but if there's a way to have, I don't know, a spreadsheet of that or include it somehow within the interactive map, something to indicate as the board is trying to, you know, get their heads wrapped around who lives where and how many and how many to predict in the future, etc. That that's also a consideration. My concern is that places like Colonial Village, other apartments that folks will be undercounted and missed and in reading the charge, both from the state and from the town, these are the section on majority, you know, districts that folks have a voice. Can you repeat that because at least I did put up here. Oh, and the state, so sorry, state and then the town part of the charge is to make sure the minority majority balance occurs. Did you all just lose me? Yeah, you blocked out for just a second. Okay. Yeah, I think someone else in my household, okay, good. All right. Right. Too many people on the Internet. Right. So D, so that's all. It's just something to keep in mind. This is a great example, D, because Colonial Village, it hasn't really grown. It hasn't changed in 10 years, right? It's been, the buildings have been the same. But what I have here, and I'm showing on this map that I zoomed to really quickly, this is Colonial Village. Let me turn on the streets here. This is Route 9 Belcher Town Road. This is Southeast Street. The purple number here is the number of people within this census block in 2010. The orange number is the number of people here in 2020. And what you see here is a decrease in 45 people, 46 people. That is an example of, hey, there's 46 people there that, oh look, there's 10. There's a slight variance in geography here between 2010 and 2020. There's 10 people here. So there is a slight miscount. This would be an example of doing what I was saying in comparing for these apartment complexes, comparing 2010 to now, to see if there are any dramatic differences in the balance of people, regardless of whether they're a student or not, or regardless of their race, just to look purely at the difference in count. And if we see an apartment complex that was here in 2010, and also here in 2020, and there's a big difference between the two, then we could say, hey, there's an underrepresented group of people here. There's an uncounted group of people. And it would just purely be looking at numbers. So that is one thing that we could do. Okay, thank you for that, Mike. Mike, I have a question. Could we have access to this map? Because I find it interesting that just across the road, there is also a big difference. The difference across the road is 100 people. That one. But this one, look, oh gosh, you guys, we're getting into the weeds. You see me flashing this census block. This is the census block in 2010 that I'm flashing here, okay? But in 2020, there's a dividing line between it. And so it's 92 plus 86. Okay. So that's why it's really hard to compare 2010 to 2020, because the geography of everything changes. But we can do our best. We can do our best to compare numbers. Thank you. Thank you. Learning, Peggy and then Tracy. So I guess one comment I have, and we've already sort of gone through this, but at what point during this 10 years would it make a difference if we either underestimate or overestimate population? Because when you look at, you know, the state's concern about two of those precincts, what happened was they went down in population. So you would anticipate growth or lack thereof during a 10-year period. At what point does it become critical if you go over or way under? Good question. I think 10 years from now when you have to redraw the districts again is when it becomes critical. But in the meantime, you know, there's an imbalance of people. You know, if there's a massive development in one of these precincts, there's just a really big imbalance of people like we see here. Well, that one, the mass of development, right? It has 600 beds, I think. Right. Doesn't it? So that's probably like one of the biggest new projects in Amherst and that will happen in the next 10 years. By the way, I know that there are other questions here, but this was a question. On this interactive map that all of you folks can see, when you get here, you can click on this button over here on the left. It's a layer and you can turn on voting precincts and you can turn on voting districts so that you can see those boundaries. So, Peggy. Okay. I have a couple comments. My first comment is about the charter, although I think that getting the charter changed if necessary to allow for more than 10 precincts is probably not difficult. I think to get to change the number of districts would be a huge deal. The charter, you know, went through a huge voting process when they first brought it in and it was all designed to have 13 counselors, two from each district and so on. You want to change that structure. That is not going to be something that we can just kind of slip through the town or the legislature. But my other comment is actually sort of a more question or a comment. When we think about the precincts, I'm not sure why there's a problem of having a precinct which is just students. I think there could be a problem with having a district of just students. But the precincts are the building blocks to the districts. If that's, you know, I don't understand why that is problematic. And I guess my question for Mike, if Mike is right, one is in terms of making sure that we don't dilute minority vote, for example, do we have to worry about that for precincts as well or just districts? Because it's at the district level that representation actually happens. I don't, I'm not 100% sure, but I believe if we go back and we review the presentation the state presented, I believe it's both precincts and districts where you did not want to dilute any sort of community vote. But I'm not, I think we should go back and review documentation on that. But it is also, I mean, I remember when I looked at the 2011 district advisory board, they kept referring it to wards and not districts, which is the language that the state uses. And right, so the wards to Peggy's point, the wards are now the districts as we're referring to them as the districts are the building blocks. So I mean, that seems particularly crucial, like unless we're changing those blocks by adding additional districts or anything. I mean, I did have a question just, I think you were talking about this last time, Mike, but as we talk about new developments or underrepresented populations and things, like in terms of like how strict is the state about that they want all the districts to be within the precincts to be within 5% population of each other. Because if we start, they're not going to, in terms of the state's determination of that 5%, they're not going to be looking at the future development or the underrepresented populations and things are just going to be doing it quantitatively based on the numbers that they have, which are the best available currently. And so, I mean, does the state ever get upset with municipalities who, if there are some that are more than 5% difference or does that come up as an issue, I guess? I don't think they're going to let us go above plus or minus 5%. I don't think they're going to let us, they're not going to let us go above 4,000 people in a precinct and they're not going to let us go above plus or minus 5% in a precinct or a district. So Mike, I have a question about the plus or minus 5%. Is it plus or minus 5% or 5% difference between two precincts? Because one gives you the difference 10% between, it will do plus 5, minus 5 is 10%. If you do 5% difference is half of that. So my understanding is 5% difference between the upper and the lower limit. Am I correct? Is that, I don't know that actually that's a great question. I think they have to be within 5%. That means it's plus or minus 2.5%. Right, 2.5%. Yeah, yeah, we'll have to look at the state, at the state's go back here. So, Arine, are you and Sue corresponding with the state for these clarifications? No, but I think we have to, I think that was part of my, one of my questions originally this morning, today, this afternoon is all these questions that we're having because we are so close to the 40,000 is, who makes the final determination about the number of precincts since we are under 40,000. Can we say we are staying with 10 or the state is going to come back to us or that's one of the, that was our question I had today and I was hoping, so I think we have to start asking the state about these questions. So it would be helpful, yeah, to have a running list, you know, to send a correspondence as the chair to the state and I think that would be appropriate as the board chair to send that correspondence on behalf of the group. Yes, I agree but I didn't want to, I wanted to hear from the group trying to figure out whether we have to send. Yeah, this is the language in the standards. Every precinct's population must be within 5% of the average precinct population for that ward or town. So the ward of the districts. Every precinct's population must be within 5% of the average precinct population for that ward or town. So that means it's plus or minus 5%. Yeah, plus 5% or minus 5%. From the average. From the average. That's the way that I interpreted it. Yes. Yes. So I recall that, you know, the question about the 12 precincts and then 15 precincts, like it came up right because the officials from the state had contacted the town, like town leadership, maybe the town manager and whoever else was on that correspondence and had, and I guess Sue had been on that correspondence and indicated that, you know, based on their preliminary estimates that they thought that we were going to need at least 12 precincts. Correct. Right. And then the town decided to say, okay, well that should be 15. But has, I agree that it would be important for us to know, like, if it's even acceptable to the state if we continue to have 10. Or is that not even an option? So I did reach out to them to ask them that question. The day that the census numbers came out and I got the total and I received the total, you know, I took the 39,263, you know, divided by 10. That's 3,926 people per precinct. If you average it out and then plus or minus 5%, plus 5%, that's above 4,000, minus 5%, that's 3,729. I reached out to the state with those numbers and said, hey, are you still recommending that we go to 12? Can we stay at 10? And I have not heard back from them yet. So. Can you ping back? Can you resend it? I can ping them again. Yeah. Or if you forward me your email, I can send it as although maybe coming from a .gov, email address is better than coming from. Yeah. And I know, I mean, I'm sure elected officials are interested in this too. Like I know, anyway, I wonder if they might be able to get answers when we can't get answers. Yeah. I know that this state is currently, you know, at least for us, the estimated data was so far off, you know, 2,500 people off. The state had, yeah, the state had been blasting forward with 300 plus towns with these, with the estimated data. Now, they are completely like scaling back and having to rerun maps and metrics for all 351 cities and towns. You know, the data came out less than a week ago. So I know that they're in, they're just cranking out maps and stuff right now. But I will follow up with the person that I reach out to. And Irina, I can share the people's information with you so that you can reach out to them as committee chair. Can you see me on the email as committee chair? I think it's better than leaves from dot gov. Right. Email address and we'll see see me. Yep. Thank you. Marilyn, you have your hand raised. I do. I have a question. So on the standard that said no precinct may contain more than 4,000 residents. If that's etched in stone, we don't have a lot of leeway in some of these. It's, it's, you know, if you look at the average precinct size, that would be 3,927. So that gives us a buffer of only 73 if we cannot exceed the 4,000. And I don't know, you know, that's, I think that's a challenging task or maybe a challenging task. If, you know, as I look at precinct 10, we would have to reduce that by 1,500 or close to 1,500. Right. 1446. Yeah. Tommy and then my heck. So I don't know if you can see my numbers, but what I did was a plus and minus in each of the precincts. And there are two of them have less than a hundred in difference in population, which means eight precincts have a difference of more than a hundred people going backwards or forwards. And so there's so little wiggle room there that if it, if it's really, I mean, if the precinct number worth 3,900, you know, you have this wiggle room of 100 people. I don't know how we're going to, you know, do those district lines if we're talking about a hundred people. And so I'm just, when I look at this, it's, it seems like we're going, it's not going to be possible because if you, if you're at 39, which is the average number per precinct, what is 5% within that you can't go above it really. And so how are you going to fit those, you know, true. But that's 700 people. Anyway, that's going to happen. Anyhow, when we go, if we go to 15 precincts, we're going to have the same problem because then the numbers is 2,700 as an average, plus or minus 130. So the wiggle room, it's also very much reduced because our average per precinct goes down considerably. It goes by 50% down, right? Right. But your wiggle room is on both sides instead of just one direction, right? Yeah, but the wiggle room is much smaller. So it's not that we're gaining, so it might be easier to have a bigger, when you have a bigger numbers, it's easier to accommodate because the numbers might be bigger. You, I think, I think we go, we, Tracy, you have the numbers, it's 2,700, right? The average, we can do it quickly. Yeah, I mean, I had to calculate it before when our estimate was like 41,000 and it was 2,800 at that time. So I'm sure it's about 2,700. Yeah. Like right, if you go to... So I have a calculator here. So what precinct number are we talking about? It would be 2,600. It would be closer to 2,600. And then 5% of that is 130. 30, right. Yeah. So then we have to be within 270 plus or minus. 270 plus or minus difference between the higher up and the lower down, whereas in this, in the other situation, so we will have, we would have 270. So in one case, we have 270. So 280, total wiggle between the up and down. And in the other case, we have slightly smaller, 230. Right? Because 5% of 3,922 is 196. So that's our 5%. Right. And then of 15, it's 130 or 131. Yes. So with 15% of our 5% variance is 130, the other one is 196. Okay. And it's true that down we can only go 5% down, up we can only go 2%. I think my heck has hung up. Yeah. So I was just going to elaborate on what Tami and Marilyn was saying about the lack of wiggle room because what I've noticed as a UMass student is that UMass is also accepting a lot of freshmen, sometimes even more than the limit that they're allowed to, which is why the population I believe will be increasing. At least I can speak from the UMass perspective. So what I'm trying to say is that I think I also agree with increasing the number of precincts because just a difference of 100 people would be too big of a risk to take for the next 10 years. Marilyn, you have your hands up. Actually, my hand was down, but I mean, it wasn't lowered. But my question before, my prior question was, so at what point during this 10-year period, does it become a problem? Obviously, we redo the census every 10 years because there are changes in population. So if in five years or six years, the population grows to, say, 42,000, are we in violation? Or do we have to, and there's no formal census then. So how do we, how does anyone even know? So we're able to meet, well, the body is able to to meet, even though it's an ad hoc committee, to redraw it when necessary. So that might be an option. The other option is to, you know, when you look at the state charge, it says to include within your decision making communities of interest, building projects, you know, et cetera. And I believe last week you all mentioned that there are some building projects that are going on now. And then there are those that are planned for the future. I had put a request to Mike, and again, I know you're juggling a lot, but to find out from the town folks, I forget, which offices, okay, this development, et cetera, which ones are in the pipeline. And that might help in this board's decision making process. What are currently okayed, you know, and have been approved? And then what are potentially in the pipeline? I do not have an answer there yet. I populated the spreadsheet with the three that I knew the answer to, but I do not have a complete list of the status of the projects yet, but I'm reaching out constantly to the group to get that information. So I hope I, maybe I'll have an answer for you. I'll go knock on people's doors tomorrow, try to get an answer. Okay. Have you covered hand raised? Yeah, I do. So I want to second what Dija said about taking into account the known developments. But I'm wondering, neither one is a very appealing prospect, either keeping 10 districts, sorry, 10 precincts, or moving up to 15, they both have their problems from a number point of view, and who knows whether there'll be problems from actually when we try to draw the lines. So I'm going to suggest that we just fool with it, that we all of us use Mike's interactive map and start playing around with things to see, well, if we were going to do it with 10 districts, 10 precincts, what would it look like? Oh, maybe that may not even be possible, given the numbers, particularly in precinct 10. Or if we're going to do 15, where would we start thinking about drawing those lines? So I just, either root has some problems, and we don't even know what they are yet until we start drawing lines. I just wanted to point out that for 2020, we are 737 people away from 40,000, and then we had these new apartments that are being built. So I don't know what the population of those is, but I forgot about them. And I know once you add them to the number, we're going to get much closer. I don't know if it's close to 700. So Mike, you said you would look into that. Well, like, for example, that Tammy, that one on Mass Ave, the one that you massed, that's 600 beds right there. I mean, so that's just one development. And though it is replacing, in part, some of the housing that's going offline, the net is still pretty large. It's still several hundred. So it's probably at least the half of the 700 that you said that we have for Waco Room. I mean, I do like the idea of playing around with the maps a little. And I think we need a few more answers like in terms of, again, like, would the state even allow us to have 10 districts and things like that? So I mean, perhaps, I mean, one thing I was wondering if maybe the next meeting, hopefully we'll have more answers on those questions. And then we could move forward with deciding, you know, if we want to look at more at 10 or at 15. And I guess a question, too, is like, is 12 or the idea that had come up with changing the numbers precincts? Is that something that we just need to, like, get rid of because it's completely unfeasible? I mean, Peggy brought up really good points. But until we've heard more about the limitations with the charter and changing the charter. And I would like to hear a little more because that was also to me an attractive possibility if it's possible. So I think that the charter might not be possible. I also thought it was like, who came with the idea of having 15, five districts and not six, six is easier to divide when you have 13. So I was like, why five should have been six with 13 is easier. But the charter was a pull up the charter and says section 2.1 composition term of office and eligibility. And here says 13 members, three at large, 10 from the districts, two counselors to be elected from each of five districts of town. So if we were even to propose that to distribute differently counselors, it has to be changing the charter. That's the first article on the charter. So I hear what you're saying, but just because it's written, there's lots of contracts and documents within the town that are amended all the time. So I do hear what everyone is saying that it will be difficult, but it's not impossible. And usually what happens, once it's approved on the town level within the council, we submit a proposal. If they see there's a need, they vote on it, then it goes to the state as a copy to be voted on. So you know, I don't see it as impossible, but it is something to investigate as to what the process is. Because if that's what's best for the voters and best in terms of the precinct and the districts, then you know, you should proceed with it. I, you know, feeling as a resident. But I think it is to explore the process before ruling it out. Yeah, I think that that was the point I was trying to make, just to, but hopefully, I mean, hopefully it wouldn't take us too many weeks to get some of those answers. I think, I would like, I think it's interesting and I think we have to figure out which way you hold to ask what would be the process. But if we were to propose this, I think it has to be substantiated with data saying 15 is not feasible. They're so small that 15 is not feasible. I think before going saying, hey, we want 12 because it's easier would be saying with 15, it's not possible to have a balance distribution on the precincts and making the districts, I think I would feel more comfortable pushing forward with this if we say the data is saying with 12. I don't know if everybody agrees. I think I totally agree with you. I don't think that we could sell trying to change the charter without just by saying, you know, 12 is an easier number than 15. Yeah, it has to be, we cannot do it with 15 is too small, the variability is too small, we cannot, the new complex would have to be divided into three sensors blocks so that we have a balance. How do we go about that? And I agree for any of the things that you all are undertaking, it's going to be, you know, met with a large degree of scrutiny. So you're going to have to have the data no matter what. I'm just saying that if that's the conclusion this board comes to, I feel that you need to find out the procedure in case that's what the board comes to. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying to, you know, just propose it and not have any reasoning or, you know, quantitative and qualitative reasons for backing it up. But it is something to find out what would be the likely procedure. That's all. I agree. I can follow up and try to ask or somebody wants to follow up and ask. So questions about the charter, like this, who, I mean, to whom do we go for the answers, I guess? I think it should be legal through should we do we have to ask legal advice? I would agree. I would, I would agree that it should go to Sue and then Sue would reach out to legal. Or I mean, or even maybe ask the town manager, you know, that we could contact Sue. I mean, I could send an email to that effect. I would draft, I would recommend drafting these questions in an email and then writing and then CC, like maybe emailing Sue and Paul. Right. And I wish Sue were here. She would have a better answer. I mean, but Sue herself was sort of reading through the charter. I mean, she doesn't work with the charter, the details of the charter a lot. You know, it also seems like something that people on the council might have feelings about it as well. I'm the council does have their meeting on the 23rd. And so I'm happy to draft, I'm happy to draft sort of just Tracy, I don't think this is a question that the council should answer. This is something is the government is should be independent. No, of course, of course, the reason I'm just mentioning with the counselors is just knowing the council members. I just that people on the council have pretty strong opinions about things. And so the idea that, you know, we come up with recommendations, and then, you know, towards the end of a process, and then we're moving them to the council, like, if there was a proposal such as changing the number of districts, I think it would be better to at least inform the council sooner that that was one of the options than to put it in in October when we want the council to approve it in like one or two meetings. Do you know what I mean? So and find out right and find out the procedure. Right. And I think that I mean, and I think, you know, for example, like Paul Bachman at each council meeting, right, he prepares a report for the meeting. So for example, this would be a great opportunity for him to mention to the council members that the our committee has started meeting, you know, and the population came in just under 40,000. You know, and one of the things that the committee has discussed is this possibility of the six, six districts, or I mean, that's something it probably needs to change. Like it sounds like we are super close to the 10 precincts. So it doesn't I don't even know if that's like an option, really, from what everybody's saying, I mean, Amherst will continue to grow. We are like really close. We could convene a second district advisory board, you know, in a few years, but that's a lot of work too. And logistically, does that even work? So I mean, just thinking ahead, it seems that that may not be the best way to go. But but I think that we do need some answers. And I mean, if it's helpful, I can I can just draft a very short email, just asking the town clerk and the town manager, you know, because we're trying to get some answers on this. Right. And it has to be documented in terms of what the procedure they should have that written down somewhere. Yes. Okay. Thanks, Trissy. So if you can see me, so then you keep it in record. Yeah, of course, I mean, or I guess it's not a it's not like in a violation of open meeting law, if I run the email by like yourself and your co chair Peggy or something, as long as it's like not a majority of our committee. Yeah, I would feel comfortable just having somebody check and make sure that I'm asking the right questions and doing so in a way that, you know, is going to be clear what we're asking. Okay. Test it with me or with Peggy? So Paul, I mean, my understanding is the town manager is on vacation this week. So I would probably email him while it's tough. I'm assuming he's on vacation this week, but maybe he'll actually check his emails on Saturday or Sunday or something. He does. There is a town council meeting on Monday. He does. He'll check his email. I would email him before the end of the week. And hopefully it can be, again, maybe it could be something that he could mention to, you know, in his town manager updates if he has any questions. So. Okay, great. Tommy, you have your hands up? Yeah, I was just trying to figure out the district slash ward, how many people are in each of those, and if they look relatively equal. So I'm just doing the math on that. I didn't know if Michael had it, you know, something that you could have quick access to. Did I not do that? I meant to do that for you guys. I did that. And I think there, at least I was doing it quickly. And there's big differences in particularly the one that includes the person. Okay, that one. So I was trying to figure out whether, okay, can we, because this is going to be a decision that we're going to have to make. Can we keep them the same as close as possible? We start completely anew. And I think if you look at the discussions from when they created the charter and previously they were part of the gold, the last district, correct me if I'm wrong, was they try to keep the precincts as close as possible as in the past. I would like to see the demographics on the data before if we're going to start making going to 15 or 12. I would like to see the demographics so that we make sure that we are not disenfranchised since populations have changed so much that we are doing it the right way. Tracy? Yeah, Peggy? Yes. I also looked at the numbers and really districts one, two and four are all quite close to each other easily within a 5% range, but three and five are way off. Three is the one that's it's a thousand people too high and five is a thousand people too low. So and they are not next to each other. So we can't just kind of easily take some of the people in three and pop them over to five. We'd have to move them say to four and then move some people from four to five or something like that. So yeah, that's just it's not it's not falling easily into our laps. Well, and I think also I had mentioned at the last meeting right that when I went back to how the Charter Commission created the districts that they're you know basically because I as Peggy as you were saying they have to be next to each other the two precincts in each district have to be next to each other. There were only a total of like nine possible configurations that would work for Amherst and there was one that the Charter Commission ultimately voted for but there were some others that I think that the they have similar benefits and and perhaps they would have they definitely would consider they would be worth looking at again I think. So it didn't seem like it was to me when I look back at their analysis it it didn't stand out to me that the distribution that they chose from the precincts to the districts was like the only good option. I think there were some other good options too like in terms of the in terms of having communities you know those sub-town communities like clustered together and so on and so district three is precinct four and precinct ten. Yes. So that's why they're over because because ten shot up so much and that's my that's my that's my district and that's also just a district. These have been numbers I came up with just by calculating things in the spreadsheet. Okay. So Mike I have a question because by looking at the numbers well this goes back to about the undercounting I was looking at the numbers and by the color coding on precinct one and it seems there are some areas that are undercounted like the maybe because of the timing I'm thinking it looks many areas look and this is predominantly a student rental area but there's nothing we can do about these things right only that to take into account when we are distributing knowing that there there might be. I mean I think we should consider it I don't think we should completely throw it out that would be this would be an example of something where I think we should compare it to do you have an example Irina of a particular block like we're looking at an interactive map do you want to for example the Coles the so particularly the Coles property right here the what's the name of the north village yeah it's yeah it's right here is that one yeah isn't it the mill district the mill district right yeah so this this is the mill district this is this right here that I've highlighted this is one big census block and it says that there are 169 people there aren't there like 70 units in each building 70 rental units in each building so that would be 100 assuming that there's one person that would be 140 plus I mean a lot of this stuff is commercial around here but there I believe there are some residential but not all of those were occupied by April 2020 were they I mean the governor came out to like a big opening like later in the spring yeah that's so I think that they're all being filled in now but they weren't would have all might not have been accounted for in April but also yeah so there's okay this is going into the details there is a lot of in puffed on and it's it's definitely something to be conscious of D mentioned it earlier and if you go and you read any sort of literature online about you know undercounting in this census it it's predominantly for most of it is students who live off campus because students who lived on campus it was more of kind of an estimation process instead of physically counting the people that are there is my understanding so these places like this you know these apartment complexes off of meadow street they may have been half 50 vacant at the time of when the census went around and did their did their research so it's it's definitely something that we should pay attention to and I would recommend the methodology would be we compare this to you know we pull up this map that I pulled up a few I'll publish this map online too so we can we can can you publish that one that would be great because I think maybe it's crazy it's crazy then don't go don't go insane with looking at the numbers because the geography changed over time sure like here here for example on meadow street this census block right here that I'm going to flash green right here this is an apartment complex the development here has not changed at all I'll turn on this is off of meadow street right here these apartment it's 60 it's almost 60 people short in 2020 when you compare it 2020 to to 2010 2010 is again it's the purple label 2020 is the orange label so so but tell me if I I should look at this the same way so because the census blocks change between this is my understanding but if we went through between meadow north person the pafton village apartment private way would and world 116 that would be one census block would not many census blocks but would be the same between both years those times just to compare the numbers so the geography is really hard to see let me see if I can make it more there's a lot of layers there's a lot of layers to this so the purple lines that are right here the purple line this is these are the census blocks in 2010 okay and now I'm about to turn on 2020 so in our in our case that's the same in our case this one actually that I'm flashing right here that is 60 people different from 2010 to 2020 this one stayed exactly the same and I'm I lived in amherst in 2010 I'm pretty sure the all these buildings were there in 2010 but I think then that like in that case right it's an undercounting of the student residents because I mean that's mainly occupied by students so if they were on campus and that yeah I mean I think that they were more empty yeah this this is an example do you see how I'm highlighting this right here I'm highlighting the 2010 census block but in 2020 it's divided into three so in 2010 it was one big block that shaped like this with 534 people in it in 2020 it was one two three that is these three numbers added and like what is your number in the green the orange number in the green I can't really read that's 498 let me so it's showing that that actually grew a lot which is weird by their count right which is because you have the like 490 that's like 500 and 700 and you have like over hang on a second hang on just a second let me let me let me let me find what is the name of this census blocks see how this green one goes though look at the shape it it wraps all the way around here so it includes whereas before it used to be like four different census blocks right it used to be this one the one with the 126 and it used to be the one with the 49 and it used to be the one next to 2021 it used to be it used to be no the purple is 2010 yeah oh that's true yeah the big the purple lines are 2010 yeah it used to in this proper this area changed a lot between 2000 it census wise it changed a lot between 2010 and 2020 that's kind of the that's kind of the discussion point here it used to be this block this block and this block and in it is one block right here one block right here and one block that starts here and it snakes around and includes all of these properties there's probably 500 people in all of these apartment buildings here that are highlighted in green that i'm flashing oh yeah right yeah but you can see you can see all around this area and then i'm going to start calling people so that we are not going you can see across this street that now is all rentals mostly except the shorts form the numbers are down right that's 58 and 82 compare this is down 146 to 179 this is down then this geography stayed the same 228 in 2020 to 314 um this argues strongly that we should not stick with 10 precincts yeah yeah yes i agree yeah but the question then becomes come we've been 15 within the parameters right so i i'm gonna go in the order that i i don't know who raised the hand first and we want to apologize i'm gonna go in the order i see you on my screen so tamis at the top you're on mute tammy yeah i'm sorry uh no i'm done okay marlene so i know there's supposed to be or has been an expansion of presidential apartments is that reflected in the census it's in north amherst that's a great question i think they were a fair number of units but i that's a great question let's let's look at that there definitely was an expansion um so that is right here just for folks that know don't know presidential apartments basically this whole area right here was added between 2010 there's solar panels on most of the buildings back here um let's see so so oof it's big so it says 267 people when it used to be well it's all those together right so that's like yeah that's 300 and something plus it's 320 plus was a 232 so it's like 500 and something this is like half it's like half the size population-wise this is a great example marieline this is something to definitely look into yeah because i don't remember how many units they added on but it was a substantial number i think correct it's it's i mean this is a laundry building a laundry and i believe like an office building but one two three four five six seven eight nine nine buildings they added on you know 10 plus units per building so i really i i still appreciate this particular map because um i think it may help in terms of the the group estimating because if 2020 you know well 2020 was a census year but you had many students but also folks who um employment was dependent upon the universities leave uh and those units particularly those apartments are still um you know still there so the assumption is that people within this year and the next will repopulate those areas and so accounting i i forgot which one you showed earlier that had a drop in terms of numbers of of the residents there at the apartment complex maybe it was puffed in village or something i think it was this brandy wine right or not wine i forget what it is this is middle street this is a perfect example of what you're describing yeah this one right here i i have a proposal about this because i'm starting to i think this is about the data i think i don't know how we're gonna go through and maybe we should split the map into areas and share the data and ask people to try to identify areas once uh that are um what we can see big discrepancies between 2020 and 2010 when we would expect either similar or reduction because that is information that we're gonna need when building the precinct saying okay we think that these are undercounted so this one should we should make an effort to put them on the lower bar or so we have an average and plus or minus per percent so can we build the precincts with the information that we gathered um it would maybe a semi anecdotal because we it's a comparison between the two years and by areas can we build them so that they're on the lower bar um when we're building the precincts so we know that we are taken off in a way counting and taking them in a way whereas we know the precincts or in areas that we know that there hasn't been much development or it hasn't changed and we don't see much discrepancies those we can put them on the upper range if it's possible to build it um it might not be possible but there this might be a way that we need to look at the data like census product by census block with the maps trying to identify the areas where there might be undercounting and keep a record or allow somehow I don't know how we're gonna if this each of these levels we can put another layer of information so where we think that there's an undercounting so to raise a flag so when we are building the precincts we now wait in this census block there seems to be an undercounting so we should make sure that this goes to uh we're below when we're building the precincts we aim to have them below the average yeah it gets complicated in cases like what we're looking at right here off of meadow street or even right here the entrance to puffed in village these are really easy locations where we see a difference but I just want to make sure that everyone under I will absolutely publish this data so that you folks can start playing around with it and look at it but there are cases where it's going to get really complicated and crazy and your eyes are going to cross where and this this is an example right here where in 2010 this was one census block that had 534 people and now in 2020 it's one two three one with 111 another with 189 and another with 498 that snakes all the way around here and goes down like that so in cases like that your eyes are going to get your eyes may trick you into finding these areas that may look underrepresented but the population was just distributed amongst a different census block shape does that make sense yeah but we might take a bigger in that case we might take the whole chunk and look at the whole chunk whenever we cannot try to make it yes Tammy and then my name is me sorry did Tammy have a question too yes sorry Tammy my name and Tracy yes um did we get something from this did you get something with the census that it was what their recommendations are did you say that the state sends their recommendation the state is you know how there was um they sent us an example of a 12 precinct map what it would look like and an example of a 15 precinct they're going to do that same thing for us whether we want to or not um I guess I'm just wondering if we want to look at those to see if I mean are they kind of crunching all of this data to create those they those the 12 and the 15 that we have they they crunched the estimated data which is which is trash at this point it's irrelevant they are going to be delivering a a new map to us okay we can absolutely look at that but they don't know anything about Amherst they're purely looking at numbers they don't know anything about neighborhoods you know they're just trying to equally divide people so we can look at it I guess I'm just wondering if that's where we want to start since there since they have already done that and then we can start tweaking so my question is how many precincts are they going to be yes Marlene so I had a couple questions one is I don't know if you can look at one east pleasant and Kendrick place in the downtown area to see what those numbers look like Mike sure close your eyes you might go crazy with me zooming in and zooming out on this stuff so one east pleasant I think is going to be right here where you see 209 people you see zero in in um 2010 I'll turn on the imagery here yep yep that's exactly right okay and what about Kendrick is that its own little well Kendrick is on the corner it's on the other one 94 it shows 94 people here and zero in 2010 so that's right okay so one one concern I have given that the census was done during COVID what I mean it seems to me that we're probably under counting our student population who are living off campus off campus and what are the implications of that and we can't have the state we can't redo the census right that's what I was saying Marilyn that you know as we consider this and going back to that example that Mike shared with us that you had a 2010 population in an apartment complex and then 2020 the population went down by you know I don't know what you were quoting right and so those discrepancies that apartment complex is still there wasn't demolished so the assumption should perhaps be built in that this place will be populated full force by the upcoming fall and so those numbers should be taken into account from 2010 when that apartment complex was fully populated in some way so those are things that you know we're as a board you're you're going to have to consider not only the recent construction that was just noted but those apartment complexes that are still there and in 2020 people weren't there because it's not just the students Marilyn I'm saying it's not just the students it's people whose livelihood was dependent up on the university and were let go which a large amount of folks were let go from these the the five colleges and went elsewhere you know to to live where they probably could afford to live so I you know it's it's a lot to consider is all I'm suggesting and I guess my question's also related to I mean isn't population also somehow linked to funding like that we yes yeah yes definitely so you know is there any recourse if we can demonstrate that yes Amherst was undercounted and in 2021 those numbers are going to rebound or maybe it was overcount in precinct 10 I don't know I think I think I was I was thinking from the same line of thought we have a five percent difference between the estimated and the actual numbers right that's I don't know is there any point that the census triggers some questioning between their estimated and and the actual values no I mean I think what Mike was saying is that you know in terms of us meeting the five percent they would be basing it on their quote final no no no no no no that's no no this is independent the the estimated number for Amherst was five percent higher than it wasn't it's not that the numbers their estimation was within one or two percent it was five percent difference right and that has a big impact on everything right yeah I mean the population numbers matter hugely for any kind of funding or anything any program certain yeah so the question is whether I don't think we should I don't know if it's us the town council or the the manager should raise this question right now I mean I think that's why I write that the that all the political folks and the elected officials both locally and Mindy Dom and Joe Comerford I mean everybody was stressing the importance of having a good count right and I know people who worked for the census right because you're just trying to get the best numbers that you have I mean then they can continue to argue and I think that that was part of what they were arguing even during the 2020 census is that you don't want to be undercounted you know there's a whole number of different populations it's not just students off campus like as Dee talked about it's immigrant populations it can also be homeless people I mean we have a number of homeless people in Amherst like all kinds of things and all of those populations contribute to undercounting so I think I mean I think the town will continue to like make those arguments but at the same time for any kind of like federal or state grant funding it's going to come down to the numbers that the census is using yeah here's a we found another error while we're looking um or probably it's an error I think there's nine people living in Kendrick Park according to the 2020 census you know I think that's not necessarily so I did have I had raised my hand just um because uh yeah you had mentioned just this idea about like going through different parts of the map I mean there are a lot of numbers here as Mike was saying and that you know I don't know whether as a group like we can each agree to like do some homework and look at different parts like either our districts or something and just kind of come back and see I mean there is a list that I had put together earlier I don't think it so you put it in the packet but it was a list of all the major apartment complex in Amherst I had put it together last year for the current ones and so if people feel like they would have time to do some like spot checking and just kind of looking into it it is complicated in some areas as Mike was saying but just it seems really hard to go through the whole map at this level to kind of see what was happening I mean there are a couple there I mean Mike didn't you say there's at least like a couple hundred like census blocks in Amherst so I can program I can programmatically do this I can programmatically compare 2010 to 2020 but I we're going to have to do exactly what arena proposed which is we're not going to be able to compare things based on like the 2020 geography we're going to have to kind of group things together right now so basically let's look at this example right here Fearing Street Lincoln Cosby Page McClellan North Pleasant this area right in here in 2010 it was 214 people right but in 2020 it's 93 plus 108 so what I'm going to have to do is I'm going to have to add these two numbers together and compare it to this number I can do that programmatically so that you guys don't have to call through everything and look at stuff but I guess I wasn't sure I mean so in the cases where the black boundaries are the same or very close you know as we talked about in the first example the one we were talking about before or it seems really easy to make yeah like so it seems easy to make the comparison I didn't know how much of if you're comparing it and the boundaries are different like how much you can do that automatically or how much you need to look at it I mean I can I can do that I mean I can I can say I can say hey let's compare the ones that are identical and then let's isolate the ones that the geography is different and let's put more scrutiny on those we can do that too I mean maybe so maybe like us as the members just to not make you do all the work we appreciate all the work you're doing I mean maybe if the majority of them have very close boundaries or something if there's a way to kind of that for each of those in addition to the 2010 number and the 2020 number you could have like some kind of change or or even just maybe well again that's a different layer but like color them differently right you know to say like these are the same or maybe color them differently on the boundaries or something and then and then maybe the committee members we could look at the ones that are like the most different or something in terms of the boundaries themselves but I sorry I also just had another question just in terms of the timing with the meeting is I know I had offered to I had volunteered to go and speak to the town council um on the at their Monday meeting just about the committee and we talked about having a press release or anything I know you haven't talked about that at all but I didn't want to kind of leave that hanging there if if that's still the plan of what the committee wants to do yeah so I was going to say I'm sorry I mean I don't want to cut you but I wanted to suggest two things uh to split the work and I was considering so discussing the press release so can because we have many things to discuss and I was wondering whether we could do split the discussion on the because this is going to inform us later when we have to build the persons the information if we can identify the places that they have um the discrepancies so if Mike can you do programmatically the big blocks if it's not complicated and then we revise okay the ones that have are within five percent we don't look at them the ones that they have are the uh they have more than five percent even if they're big blocks then we can start discussing or we identify before coming to the meeting discussing I don't know how long will it take you or can you split the work into two um into two weeks where we discuss it in two weeks the ones um I would I would try to get it done by two next week because I think even the ones that they haven't changed they're within five percent we should check that there are no new developments in that area and then it's a fluke right we cannot we cannot make a decision right um right but the ones that have bigger even within the big blocks um and then we can identify and know where they are uh right um just yes I just had a related question in terms of Mike's efforts like would it would it make sense to focus not just on like um you know population changes of a certain percent but maybe just as a first cut at it to look at the ones where the population changes are the largest in terms of absolute numbers right so if you have some outline area say I don't know down to the notch or something and the population change from like five people to ten people like even though that's a huge change for that one area like we're trying to think about this as a whole town and so maybe we're at this stage I mean are we perhaps the most interested in the ones where it went up like hundreds or something right you know compared to like the percentage I just a really quick thing um is there a map of the housing stock in Amherst I mean I know that I know that there are discussions in like the housing authority in other places about the housing stock and so I'm just wondering if that will help us to figure out some of the discrepancies in uh in population numbers so that's just one thing I'm just throwing that out the other thing that I thought was really interesting that you said Mike was that the state is going to send back a recommendation for 12 uh precincts I don't know I don't know whether to be 12 or 15 Tammy I don't know okay I thought I thought you were saying that they would we're going to send both I so I have no idea heard you and I thought if they're going to send back 12 then they must be considering that as possibility so I have no idea what they're going to send us I really don't know so that was my that was also my question whether they're going to send us by 10 or can we request that they send 10 or 15 probably yes probably if that can be a request that would be great because then we have three different starting poison housings we look at 10 12 and 15 I mean I think the state maps could be helpful but you know this was pointed out by Mandy Joe that they I mean they're doing and Mike I mean that they're doing this for a lot of towns like over 300 municipalities and that they don't know our community like we know our community more so I think that's why I mean initially when I contacted Sue after Mandy Joe's email and I asked him I asked you to share that 15 district map she said it wasn't really she wasn't going to do that because it just be confusing and they also don't really know our town and some of what the some of what was being proposed by the state with that mapping didn't make any sense so Mike do you know you said that they haven't released the socioeconomic data associated with the population do you know when that would be released no I don't know so that's a great a great point they so as part of this release last Thursday they released what's called the summary one summary two and I forget what the other one is but they released three data sets summary one is population and including population by race um and then summary two I believe is primarily a Hispanic or Latino population which is considered they count that differently um so those are the only numbers that they have released so far so they haven't released anything about age or economic status or education status or anything like that in they're very vague on their website about when that will be released it's just like it's coming in the future so I would not anticipate that we are going to have those results before we need to make a decision here but we do have these statistics on counts by race and count by Hispanic or Latino that's in those numbers you showed us like the p like one two yes exactly yeah yeah so yeah I just you know procedurally um is there a reason why um the chair of this committee is not being cc'd or communicated with directly from the state it's a question I don't know I don't know um so I understand sue being a part of that but sue officially on this board is considered the the liaison between the town council not the state so I'm I'm just interested again my role here is non-voting but I am on the board of registrars and to assure transparency um so I'd be interested in knowing procedure why Arlene is not directly by the state and that she as the chair can communicate directly to the state to the appropriate office um or at least cc'd so I'm that is a concern as a resident and on the board of registrars so that's why I asked to be cc'd on the previous email so that there's a record and I would like to have all the emails posted the ones that go to the state they posted all together in the package so the email that I was going to write to the town manager and the town clerk like asking for clarification I mean I could draft something and you could send it or something and that it would make clear that like the line of communication with our committee is through the chairs okay thanks I mean if that makes sense but thanks great so um on the to-do list so before we move on I want to keep the change the moving moving to the press release I think that the summary of the discussion that we have been having today and correct me if I'm wrong is that we need to look at this interactive map with care and try to identify where we see discrepancies I think that would be our starting point for discussions when we need to build the precinct right because we're going to have to have a database or information of where we think there is an accounting because when we build the precinct we want to take that into account together we have the information where the the new developments are might be coming so that's going to have to be part of the information but on the other extreme we need to identify where is the country so I see that as our to-do for next time as long as Micah produced the map and shared this map to study this map this interactive map trying to identify sections of town I don't know if we want to go okay we decided that for next time we all look at North Amherst and then we go to the central part of Amherst and then the South Amherst I don't know or we do everything at once I would go to everything at once and then we can discuss I don't but I don't know I mean is that something that some people could you know be assigned to look at their own districts or something just preliminarily well the case we don't have we have no representation of some districts so and sometimes well it's district four we're missing people from district four yes so I mean I could I mean somebody could volunteer or two people could volunteer to look at district four just as a first I mean some of the districts I'm in district three which is pretty small because it's four and ten and district four is pretty small too because again it's also like the denser housing since it's okay and I can I can help Tracy well Tracy I was going to say since it's purely informational I can help a district four so okay I'm going to look at district one it's going to be a lot of that's I think one of the big ones with big changes so I'm going to make the effort of trying but I guess procedurally though since Mike was going to try to give us some numbers to look at you know that are showing some of the discrepancies like maybe if we waited for that before we kind of dive in and no no I'm thinking I'm saying as soon as Mike let us know yeah there to try to make an effort so that we can discuss in next meeting and I'm gonna I just want to make make it clear to people that I will be gone I'm leaving the country on Monday I will not be returning until September 9th or 10th so my I may I may have limited internet access so I don't know what my level of participation can or will be just I just want to give you a heads up okay thanks for letting us know tell me I also work full-time and this is the beginning of the semester and I work in student life and so August and September are very very densely busy months for me so this is really hard and so I would almost rather like break out and do subcommittees or something I mean I can set aside this time but it's very hard for me to to do this outside of kind of this committee time so I'm just trying that out there I'm sorry I when I signed up I didn't realize it was mainly going to be September the end of August September which are the times that I'm not really available yeah I also thought this was going to be a late summer activity and things were delayed so I had actually indicated when I submitted my papers that I would not be available during specific dates which includes the next few meetings so I apologize but it was it may be that they weren't any other people in this district or my precinct that were available to do it so why don't we um why don't we proceed by having Mike create the map that we're going to look at um I can look at district precinct sorry district five and district two two being I think Tammy and Maryland's right so you guys are both stressed for time um I think I think two and five are not going to be that hard so I can look at them and we'll see and you guys are going to take on one three and four I can take one that that's we already know so that there's big changes so we'll do what those of us that are doing this will do what we can for the next meeting yeah and and we'll just go through you know we'll prepare what we can and we'll try to get through as many of these as we can now I have a question for the group sorry go ahead Peggy just to be clear we're identifying the areas that we think are under under counted for whatever reason yes yep okay um so my comment question was just that I did have this list I had asked you to put it in the packet earlier just the list like summarizing the apartment complexes I don't know just the bigger and smaller is that helpful to anybody and it shows what um but it shows what precincts they're in yes okay so that's current that's current that's already existing it does not include the number of beds it just includes the number of units but this is an indication it indicates like where the clusters of population are yeah is this it is this it right here it's in the no it's uh it was just a list it was just like a spreadsheet list I think it's a small it's a small document um I'll send it yes for some reason I for some reason I thought we loaded it maybe we didn't so it would go in this this uh packet for the 18th is that correct so we'll know where to find it okay thank you Tracy for doing that I mean we could put it in the packet for the next time right because let's do it there okay start that packet okay great thank you um so let's just some questions of time seven ten so the next item on the agenda is tensor state and it's a press release do you want to right so I have uh sent through email the link I put it as a google doc so you all could look at it but I can also share am I able to share my I believe so oh okay I didn't receive it okay yeah it's whatever email is the general the email that Sue's been using um so I wanted to make it so you all could also edit it just came it's date I just came through on me and it says the timestamp is 703 so okay okay good I see some of you are in there um but I'll also share so we can all look at it together okay so um scrolling up usually a press release I mean it can be two pages but you try to just make it one page I still think this is a bit wordy so I could use your help and um maybe taking out some of the um the wordiness but uh the goal of a press release is to state in the first at least the first two paragraphs normally the first um the main points um and so that's what I tried to do here and then um you know you put the details explanatory and descriptive details later um so it would help again for your editing you're able to go in here it's it's listed as a suggestion if you go in and edit and then we can all agree upon those edits and make the edits tonight so if you want a couple of minutes maybe to read oh so I have a couple of questions about it um one are we allowed to do group editing or like with open meeting law or does it have to be like kind of offline like so typically what no we're all doing this is during the meeting but I think too it seemed that one of the things we wanted to do I mean um is I like towards the front of the um press release is just talk about how we are looking for like this is a public process and we're looking for public input oh okay I might even want to state that like to even in the first paragraph okay because it it happens at the end but definitely but just yeah you know a lot of people like they read it on their phone or whatever no absolutely down and yeah so we could do that we want to let the public know that we're starting some of this informational stuff could even go further down on the press release absolutely so let's so we need a line that says um uh so amars is undertaking the rejoin of district boundary lines by convening a districting advisory board which is who we are state law and but we can put there that stuff I would put that stuff down further down and just say you know we wanted to let people know that this is a short time frame for this process right that that's like the the group will submit a report by October right and that the report will be by October um it will you know have to be approved by the it will be submitted to the state by October it will be have to be approved by the council and submitted to the state by October by the end of October um so that's the last paragraph yeah that's in the last paragraph but we could certainly put it at the top you know we just received like last week the census data became available um and as Mike shared there is that interactive resource for people to take a look at the data themselves and we invite public comment like through various channels and we also are looking for the members if we can find some all right so Tracy can you like just if we can smooth it out but if you want to because that was a lot if you want to put that in this top paragraph that's fine and we can straighten out or I can straighten out the language what you just said so that's all down here at the bottom um let's see so I could take that out here um and I have residents so you're saying here residents could submit questions or concerns to the town clerk uh and board lays us with Suadette because we're still using uh Suadette's email is the place in which to do so and and we did say that it should have like a subject line like DAP or something yes and I also like right I might say also um members of the public and not residents yeah just to make it more broad oh okay from there okay all right why don't you have your hands raised oh I I didn't but I do have it does say that our meetings are on Wednesday I don't know that all of our meetings are going to be on yeah oh okay no the meetings that should be said that once a week or something weekly well close to weekly yeah or in the calendar not every week the meetings are posted on the calendar I actually have a problem with Wednesday meetings okay next year starts but I'm sure that's going to be on the next I just wrote it to put it on next week's agenda Tracy no of course I'm just I'm just throwing that out there I looked at my calendar I was like this is not good I just put it on the agenda the next meeting we should discuss the following meetings so Tracy you were saying that how edits can take place to me the public meeting the open meeting law would require us to edit this now do you know of other ways in which we would so what I'm familiar with with committees I know the community's um safety working group has done this and committees that I've been apart have done this uh-huh is where there's a a version shared the key is that you can't have a quorum of members discussing it okay so what happens is that so the community safety working group has done it sometimes when they need really quick turnaround of stuff like letters they want to send to the town manager or the council and so somebody prepares it and they send it to their staff liaison and the staff liaison then distributes it and then there's one person who's offered to edit it and then it like circulates back to that person and anyway okay which would take another week which would take another week I mean it doesn't you know yeah I mean I know in some of the cases like with the community safety working group they would actually be basically approving a version without another meeting but it would just be based on people editing but not having like a discussion okay I see what you're saying I don't know I think to be safe uh is that we edit now right I mean I think alternatively we could um we could tell the council I mean I would like a little guidance if people can stay on for a few minutes about what what are the key messages we want to send to the council when I speak to if I do speak during public comment period about the committee um but we could also tell at that at that time I could tell them that we're working on a press release because we really do want public input and um and then maybe we could you know because they meet on Wednesday on Monday and then we meet on Wednesday we could update our press release and then release it right after that I like that idea it's double the exposure because you put it out there during this town council meeting and then we have a press release at a different time right and then also I mean the the town does have their own person like Brianna releases a lot of press releases too so maybe we don't even have to do our own press release we could just like piggyback on theirs yeah well I don't know but they're but they're I will say though that they're press releases they do go out to all of the town like mailing lists and things that are already existing so it is distributed but yeah the CSWG did their own press release um could I help with it and it was distributed to all the media um but you're you're trying to get public input so you know some of the newsletters are also included with that which is also what the CSWG did um so it's up to you all I have a suggestion um so Tracy you were asking about directions about for the board I think for the council for the council so I think look at this I think this is kind of the information that we want to tell them we are meeting we have the data I mean do you want to speak to them as the chair and and make yourself like publicly known as the chair the co-chair or do you and Peggy want to talk together as co-chairs or just as a voice of the committee if people then I'm willing to share but I'm just saying I mean I'm happy to do it too as a member of the committee but if it seems like it would serve our interests better for for everybody to like the council and stuff to recognize that you're like a point of contact but however you want when is it it's on Monday it's Monday and um I mean the public comment period is usually close to the beginning I believe the meetings usually started 6 30 um so I'm speaking for me I'm perfectly willing to do this but I don't actually think that it's necessary in terms of council recognition or chair recognition so yeah okay that's fine I'm happy to do it and I I mean I thought I mean the reason I had proposed doing it during public comment period is that the town manager's report is near the end of the meeting which can be at 11 11 30 or midnight and that's and after the town manager's report is when they have the committee reports right and so I mean that's just way too late and just for the I mean just to make it higher file just to say something and so definitely we will people we want to hear this is the public I don't like exactly at this point it's the public right so during public comment is the time to do it I have a comment about this Tracy if you can do it again I don't think it has to be great I'm looking at the press release and I think this is should be the base okay I'm I'm from the point of view that we like to have a press release sooner than later and I'm willing then that's it we will never have a perfect press release because you can edit edit and things can go and if people are okay with allowing people to make some changes and prove it with some of maybe take now if everybody can take two minutes with some to read it and suggest edit and then decompile this and send it out because I think the fact that we are now on on membership and I think we have a very short time and I will not want to wait another week before we send it out so if people if people would be okay to send them the comments to be and see and it's so to approve it pending changes submitted I mean I'd still maybe now I'd like to just hold it to next week because it is getting close to 7 30 I do think that if we do make if we do speak during public comment period that that will generate some of its own publicity you know we can make our mind points and I can see the media reaching out to us after and at that time we could also share like a more detailed press release or something but in the interest of time I I I don't I don't have much time left so one one comment I have is my understanding was that these meetings were supposed to be for two hours and we try to keep it in that two yeah exactly okay okay so let's um um I think that we can read them postpone the access they accept us as a standard item for next meeting pending revisions brought up by the committee members so can I just make one suggestion you can go on here and they we don't have to approve them it's just it's in the suggesting mode as you could see so if you all could just put in your suggestions or make comments then we can approve that all together you know and vote on it all together well again I'm not voting but you all could do that uh so if it's in the suggesting mode that might be a better you know in terms of open meeting law whatever okay okay so we both postponed the vote on the press release and access to something next week yes um so we have two more items that one was the ranking of the priorities setting up the prisons and I think we've been talking about these things along the way and but we can I'm going to keep it as a standing item for future agenda so we can skip it and then I want to ask if people have things not anticipated in the last 48 hours I have one quick comment I was in touch with the council regarding the dates of the vote and they're asking us what's the earliest that we can have a map for them to vote I've been saying we need you to meet on the 25th the week of the 25th because we don't have any time and the latest that we can meet and they were they were asking so I'm going to push on data on that because this is going to be very complicated we need all the days um so that's going to be my answer but I wanted to bring it up and I think I mean also I'd brought up last time right that the councils on rules call for them to consider an item at least at two meetings before they vote and sometimes they don't follow that rule because they're like tight for time but especially in terms of allowing the public adequate access and time to comment I think it's really important for they follow their rules on this yeah yeah so that was that's that was my opinion but I wanted to bring it forward to everybody before I say I mean do you want us to like vote and say that we affirm but we can either way okay okay so um so I did did they seem like they would be able to meet later in October than the 18th I didn't they don't want but I think I mean we don't have many we don't have many options I don't think we have we I don't think we we cannot produce a map before I don't think that unless suddenly that's why part of the discussion that I'm having about the 10 precincts if we have 10 maybe things could move faster but if we have to go to 1215 things are gonna be get messy even with 10 it's gonna be messy because the numbers are so this white so we need every single day possible to be happy that's mine okay so shall we call it a day I'm sorry I'm gonna try to keep us on time yeah okay I make a motion to a draw can I can I mention one thing oh yeah yeah um so what I'm going to do folks is on the district taking advisory board page on the right hand side where there's resources and it shows agendas packets different things below that there's interactive map and below that I believe I put a link to the raw census data which is in excel format so you can download it it's in data if you're not a data person it's going to look crazy to you but if you are a data person and or if you're a there's a member of the public out there who's a data person they can feel free to download it and start processing it and looking at it um I'm going to produce a second interactive map that will be that will pop up there either later tonight or tomorrow morning um and that will be the comparison of basically it will be the map that we were looking at it'll show the 2010 2020 data and the 2010 data with the labels of the population within each census block so I'm I don't understand the rules of open meeting law so I err on the side of caution and I try not to email people um regarding business so I'm just letting you guys know now to be on the lookout for that to be there tomorrow morning mid or noon or something okay okay thank you and thank you also in that aspect if you want items on the agenda to send me an email I try to send it to soon like Friday or I try to send it before either Friday or Sunday so that there's time to adjust things okay okay so there was a motion to adjourn somebody seconder second okay um morning yes tell me parks hi thank you Shannon hi Tracy second hi my head glenny hi thank you guys have a good night everyone thank you good night thank you right