 Tonight I have the distinction of interviewing Dr. Lourdes Torres and Begin a few questions So please tell us where you grew up and a bit about your family It's my pleasure So I grew up in the South Bronx in New York City My parents were immigrants from Puerto Rico and they came to the United States to Better themselves get better jobs. And so I was raised in the South Bronx New York community during the 70s Well, please tell us a little bit about the Bronx in the 1970s because history tells us that it was quite a place But in our preliminary interviews for this you indicated you loved your neighborhood But as always even in the midst of negative issues and crime There's also good things that happen and when I think about the neighborhood I think of the people that were around me my family my friends the people I went to school with and they were all wonderful people and I loved being on the streets being on the fire escape Hanging out with my friends. It was a I remember it as a very positive very wonderful childhood So I think people need to Challenge those stereotypes they have about what a ghetto is or what a poor neighborhood is and Recognize that it's complex. It's not just negativity, but also a lot of good things come out of those areas What about New York City? Do you love? Well, New York for me growing up as a kid was a wonderful place There were people from all over the world in my small space, there was a lot of cultural events music there was Transportation I could take trains to to Manhattan to other parts of the city So for a kid growing up, I think it's a wonderful place. It was for me there were many opportunities to meet people many activities to engage in and I remember it very fondly Tell us a little bit about some of the activities you enjoyed at that time around New York City Well, I was I went to a Catholic school And so a lot of my activities as a child revolved around that school And I remember we had very wonderful teachers and nuns who would take us on trips would take us bowling would take us to musical events in in Manhattan would take us ice skating and Rockefeller Center would take us to St. Patrick's Gideon's Rolls So we'll take us to the museum. So I got a really wonderful introduction to culture through the school What happened when you were 15? When I was 15, my parents moved us out of New York City Like a lot of immigrants my father's dream was always to get a little house in the suburbs and move us out Of the ghetto for them for my parents they experienced a neighbor that is dangerous for us So my parents were always working many jobs to raise money to get us out of there And when I was 15 we did we moved to Long Island We moved to the suburbs and I remember my parents were very happy about that and I remember being devastated because we were leaving the city leaving my friends leaving the community that I loved and It was a difficult transition to move from the city to As far as I was concerned the country Where there wasn't any transportation? It was very difficult to get around where the majority of the people were white and that was a very new experience for me And the neighborhood I grew up in it was mostly Puerto Rican and African Americans So it was a huge change to go to a context where there weren't a lot of people who looked like me So it's difficult. I haven't forgiven my parents yet Although I understand their motivation and appreciate it How did your love of learning come about I think it came about because of the Education I got in the Catholic school St. Luke's where I did my grammar school years first grade to eighth grade people always have horror stories about the nuns that they Interacted with in school, but I remember the nuns is being wonderful. They were mostly all Irish Italian German nuns very old and They were just so loving and wonderful to us ghetto kids all Puerto Rican and black kids They just showed us so much love and They really instilled in us a lot of learning a lot of literature a lot of information and So whenever people knock nuns I get very defensive I think they're wonderful people and I certainly had a wonderful experience with them In speaking of the nuns How did the nuns in your school justify their contention? Excuse me, how did the nuns in your school justify their contention that homosexuality is wrong? How did you respond to that? Well, they did bring that up actually in a religion class and I remember specific conversations I had with the nuns around that issue and Even as a child that I remember questioning them around this not understanding because in the context of all these discussions about God being loved and We all had to love one another. There was this very different message condemning homosexuality condemning people who had same-sex relationships and I remember asking Continuing to ask why why is this wrong? Why is this wrong? And I remember one nun told me explained to me that if you look at it biologically it doesn't work and that if you look at the human body same-sex bodies don't fit together and I remember being very confused about that not quite understanding what she was getting She was saying they don't fit together, but I think I I never accepted that I Although I was very religious at the time and very much involved in the church That never rang true to me and didn't feel right that a certain type of love would be condemned by this God that I kept hearing about as being very loving and Very embracing of difference. So I just never accepted it and I kept questioning it and The nuns weren't happy about that, but they you know, they gave me their explanations And I nodded and didn't accept them You know one of the reasons people Tell me why they had a bad experience in Catholic school growing up queer and Was because they were made to feel shame around their sexuality And even though I was one of those people who has always believed that I was born gay And I don't remember a time when I didn't think that or believe that I was gay I never I don't remember ever feeling shame about it Even though I was educated in a Catholic school and was part of that religion and absolutely was committed to Catholicism, I don't remember feeling shame about my sexuality I knew it was not accepted and I knew that I couldn't share with people my family my friends my School friends that I felt that I was gay That was not acceptable. I but I'm the other hand I didn't think that that meant that there was something wrong with me that I was a sinner or that I Should be ashamed. I just felt it was a contradiction that I didn't understand and that I hope that if I got older I would make sense of all of that. It didn't I just never occurred to me to feel bad about my feelings Well, what opinions have you about being? Church's stance on birth control the role of women in the church the general hierarchy things like that Well, I think that the hierarchy is different than the church for me when I think about it now I think there's the institution of the church There's the hierarchy the patriarchal church the men who run it primarily What they believe and then there's what people believe for example the church is against the use of contraception Forget about abortion. They're also against just contraception And if you ask, you know, and people have done surveys of Catholics about 80% of them don't follow that so there's the rules of the church and then there's what? Catholics and people believe and then there's also I think there's different factions of the church and there those who are more committed to social justice and to change and who are committed to helping and working with poor people and People in need and that that's not what the hierarchy is interested in. So I think we should ignore the hierarchy and you know Listen to the nuns on the bus Tell us who were the nuns on the bus The nuns on the bus were I don't know if you've heard about them They they were a group in the summer of nuns Catholic nuns who were really offended by the Proposals that the Republicans were Making in terms of the federal budget all right and then his people they came out with their idea about what the federal budget should look like and they thought it was horribly wrong and they were tired of listening to politicians Especially in this Campaign cycle everyone's talking about the middle class and how we have to look up for the middle class Well, they were saying that a whole group of people probably the majority of people were being left out of these conversations People who were working class people who were poor and they wanted to go out and do give that message so these ten nuns went on a 30,000 mile trip to different cities in the United States and they would stop at soup kitchens and they would stop at homeless shelters and Congressional offices and they would have protest marches But it was wonderful because they stopped in Chicago as well and they would be greeted by huge Groups of people who treated them like rock stars and they have you know t-shirts saying I love the nuns But they were trying to do was get out that message that All these debates and discussions were having were wrong-headed and that we really needed to be talking about How we were going to address problems of poverty of homelessness of the fact that so many more people are Having to have their meals at soup kitchens that this is affecting the economic situation It's affecting so many people and no one's talking about that And so I think they did a great job of going around and getting that message out And they were also doing this against the wishes of the hierarchy, which I got When you got really negative about the nuns they were claiming that the nuns were Speaking about things that they shouldn't be talking about because they also were Came out against the Republicans when they were critiquing Reproductive rights for women they went against the hierarchy by claiming that women didn't have a right to reproductive rights and to Abortion things that the hierarchy is absolutely against So once again, not through Tell us a bit about your coming out process Well, as I said, I Have always known that I was queer even as a kid, although I also knew that I couldn't talk about it and I was thinking about that today What I where I was getting information I remember the kid going to the mudhaven library in the in the Bronx with my mother and picking up queer books Which I don't know why they let me take Their books for adults. I remember one of the first books I've read it when I was in seventh or eighth grade was This book called the Lord wouldn't mind by Gordon Marek It was a best-seller in the 70s, but it was about these two gay guys who Getting to they were in college and they fall in love and one of them feels bad about being queer And the other one wants to have a relationship But I remember reading things like that all of the the material I came in contact with Basically double gay men. I never had access to anything about women But I love the stuff about gay men. It seemed like to Validate that there was a life out there possible for me someday. So I remember reading books like that I remember seeing movies like that's certain summer with Martin Sheen and how overall it was a made for TV movie about A divorced father and his son comes home and finds out that his dad is gay and how they deal with that so I think I Learned about gay Being gay through gay male culture that was available to me in in the Bronx At once I moved to Long Island. I I was older I was in my teens and I discovered gay bars and Disco's Even though I was a kid. I would be able to get into the bars I had a fake ID and I would get into the bars and there I learned about a whole nother world of gay people and lesbians and good music and I think that's how I Came into more of a gay and lesbian culture Speaking of music a little bit you alluded to loving disco, please tell us a bit about that Who are your favorite? Donna summers and the village people Gloria Gaynor the Bee Gees I Still I still think that's the best music out there. Oh, I would agree You visited fire island in the 70s after coming out. Please tell us about that fire island cherry Grove and the pines Wonderful place out. It's a small island off The South Shore and Long Island and it's a summer tourist community for gay people It is in the summer wall-to-wall gay people there's huge discos and restaurants And a lot of people coming in from New York City to party basically It's just to go and we have a good time. There's a new beach where People run around naked and Just a good time it's very diverse people from all walks of life and All cultures come because it's a place where people can be free and hang out They were is the first place I went where I saw drag shows and Just a really open kind of free Place for for gay people and it's still going strong every now and then I still go out there The discos have changed the names have changed but and the music unfortunately Has changed, but it's still the same kind of open space for People to go and feel like there is a place where they can be surrounded by gay and lesbian people and just have a good time and feel free Tell us about common differences Common differences was a conference. I was involved in organizing at the grad student I went to graduate school in Champaign, Urbana and It's basically where I became politicized as a feminist and as a lesbian activist and one of the first things that I'm Able to get involved with was this common differences conference that took place in 1982 and I still remember it as a very wonderful thing because it was put together by students by graduate students and There wasn't a lot of support by the adults for this what we wanted to do was bring together women from all over the world to have a discussion about our Similarities and our differences across cultures across classes Races and we were able to do this We were able to get grants to get funding and we put together this conference that brought together over two thousand women for a conference of a week and We had people coming from Africa from Latin America from all over the United States And we had a really wonderful discussion Around the differences and the similarities of women. Is there a third world women's movement? What's the connection between Feminists of the first world white women and women from other parts of the world from Latin America from from Africa It was interesting. It was also the 80s My one of my roles was to bring in Latinas to this conference and I brought a lot of women who were lesbians actually Sheree Moraga, Gloria and Saldua One of the ramos were these activists Latina women and one of the conflicts at the conference was Around some of the women from Latin America and other countries who did not want to hear Latina's talking about sexuality The idea that sexuality was a feminist issue was not on the table yet So people thought that by bringing up the right to sexuality the right to lesbianism that it was kind of insulting for other women who were struggling around issues of Violence or around issues of poverty that the discussion of sexuality had no place there Since then we've moved to a different space where now we see the connection between all of these Different types of oppression and we see how they are Interlinked and that we need to fight them simultaneously But at that point it was a very contentious issue It was a wonderful space there were lots of arguments and heated the debates, but there was also I think places of understanding And we were able to put together a book following the conference that gathered Some of these discussions and and disagreements and the book is called the third world women in the politics of feminism and It's I think still relevant people still read it to understand the development of a third world of feminism through the eighties and nineties What does the term feminism mean to you? How do you define that? well, I think feminism is a is about understanding the women have an inherent value and that Are entitled to it to to human dignity and so feminism is about struggling for equality for women so that women have equal access to resources to Education to economic opportunities. I think that a lot of people nowadays feel that feminism is a thing of the past There it's the struggle that's been won and I think that that's not the case I if we think about it sex with them is still alive and well and we can find it everywhere We if we just think about the fact that Today just across any type of job or or field Women still make seventy five cents to every dollar that men make Perhaps that's the clearest indication that there's still work to be done and that some people don't understand that Sexism like racism is part of the culture that we live in. It's everywhere. It's in all of the Institution so we learn it in our families. We learn it at school. We learn it in our churches and so it's become so normalized that we don't even see it anymore and that's what happens when these things become institutionalized they become normalized they become part of everyday life and You really have to struggle to see it to argue against it So I think that's our challenge to see it to name it and to Fight it Do you think there will come a time when women and men are on par economically? I hope so. I probably won't live to see that Yeah, I think it's it's a I mean you think about places I Work at the Paul University Catholic institution but very progressive and they're like in all universities Men still make more than women do. They still make you know women make seventy five cents to every dollar that men make even at supposedly learned institutions where you know We think that we've come such a long way You still have those same issues Tell us a bit about your professional work Well, I'm a professor at the Paul University and I love what I do I teach courses in Latin American and Latino studies and LGBTQ studies and I do research. I've run a journal called Latino studies and I research in the areas of LGBTQ issues Linguistics I study Spanish language in Chicago and I do literary analyses of literature of Latinos and queers and Project that I took on about five or six years ago that I'm very excited about is a history project I am writing the history of Latina lesbian organizing in Chicago and So that's a very exciting project that I undertook when I was I've been a member of One of the organizations that deals with Latinos in Chicago called Amiga's Latinas It's an organization that advocates for Latina lesbian bisexual queer women and it's been around since 1995 I joined the group when I moved to Chicago in 1999 and I was very grateful for the fact that an organization existed that tried to bridge these two communities the Latino community and the lesbian community the queer community and There was nothing like that That I knew of Until some friends told me about Amiga's Latinas I joined up and immediately found a great community of women Who were not only provided a support group for Latinas, but also were interested in educating both the Latino community and the LGBTQ mainstream community About how these issues of being queer and being Latino work together and why people need to pay attention to that so I Participated for five or six years and then I was asked to join the board of Amiga's Latinas and I was very happy to do so. I joined the board. I was on the board for about four years I was president for one year and I was I really loved the work of the organization We not only provided a safe space for women for Latinas To learn about ourselves, but also we educated other communities so we took it as our job to educate the Latino straight community about the fact that Latino queers existed within the community and That they needed to embrace us and love us and recognize our contribution. We also were educating the LGBTQ mainstream community that Latinos were part of the queer community and we expected the LGBT community the leaders the center on house that and other institutions that Claim to speak for queer people that they needed to address the issues of the Latino queers as well So it was wonderful work educating the educated social workers who dealt with Latinas about Latina queer issues. We went to schools and talked to students and Educators about Latino queer issues. So it developed as a support group But it moved to become an advocacy group for queers anytime there was issues with the Latino community where Latino queers were being discriminated against or were having some kind of issues the Organizations stood up and defended this community and spoke out against any of these Injustices So after working with the community for a number of years I decided that I needed to document the fact that this organization existed I was actually reading about other organizations in Los Angeles in New York But I didn't find any Information on Latinos in the Midwest who were queer activists And I felt that that was a real gap in the history of queer organizing in the United States And I decided that I since I'm a researcher that it was it was my job To research this community and to get the word out get the story out That this community was active that they were leaders within the community and that they were doing good work so I started interviewing the leaders and members of the group and Through that work actually I learned about another group that existed before Amiga's Latinas There was a group called Yena Which means or it's an acronym for Latina lesbians in nuestro Ambiente which means Latina lesbians in our space And this was the first group that I've been able to identify that organized in the 80s around Queer Latino issues and I tracked down some of the women from that group. I conducted oral interviews with them I collected from both of the group there Their archives their newsletters the flyers for events I have programs from their activities They did a lot of both groups did a lot of cultural activities brought in writers the political activities Over the years, so I think it's important to document that history the fact that these women have been doing this work and If we don't document it it just it's forgotten and it's Unfortunate for young Latinos growing up now. We're looking for leaders and looking To see where the community has been. I think that that story that these women were out there that they were Women from all different Latino backgrounds. There were Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Salvadorans, Ecuadorans, people who were bilingual. There were people who only spoke Spanish only spoke English A community very diverse when people talk think about Latinos. I think it's a monolithic group But actually it's very diverse in terms of nationalities in terms of races in terms of education Class and what I think is really cool about both of these Organizations is that they were able to bridge all of those differences that the things that brought them together the fact that the women involved were queer and that they were Latina that that was enough to create a bond and to start working around some of the other differences that the group had and I think that it's a great model for organizing actually because not only that they Organized the Latinas of many different nationalities. They also worked to form coalitions with other groups so they formed coalitions with African-American groups with the Latino men with Anglo mainstream Organizations in order to get things done So I'm working I've published a few things on the organizations And I'm hoping to continue to publish and get the word out and make sure that that history is maintained and that it offers Information and energy to young activists who are interested in continuing that work Wonderful Well shifting gears a little bit tomorrow is the dedication of Chicago's legacy walk What's your connection to that? I'm very excited about that and I'll be there tomorrow because the community was invited to nominate people who would be a part of this legacy walk and hundreds of people were nominated and for the initial cohort that's going to be Unveiled tomorrow eight people were chosen and one of those is the person I nominated She's a Puerto Rican educator She is this woman who in the 70s 80s 90s was a fierce advocate For the education of Latino children. She founded a number of education of Organizations such as a speed up which organizations dedicated to educating poor and Working-class Latino children So she did this work and she was also very active around other political issues like the independence of Puerto Rico. She was Critical of the US support of the wars in Central America She was involved in a range of issues throughout her whole life She was born in the 30s and she died in 2002 And I discovered her work. I mean, I always knew growing up because I participated in programs that she had built like a speeder and I Was fascinated with her I read her autobiography and I read and she had a few lines that indicated that she was queer And I had never heard that this woman was such a strong powerful Activists and important person in my community in the Puerto Rican community I had never suspected that she was queer, but there are a few lines in her autobiography She does mention that she had relationships with women and that that it was why she didn't pursue a career in politics because people were also always saying to her Antonio, you should run for office. You know, you should run for Congress You should do something politically because she was such a great leader and she said that she knew that because she In her autobiography, she states that because she had been in relationships with women that she could never run for office because all of that would come out and So I thought that and I wrote about this about what a tragedy it was that somebody was such an important powerful woman within the Latino community and did so much around all these different causes That such a central part of her life had to be remained hidden and that it wasn't until she was almost 80 and she had the guts actually I think very brave to write this and to Essentially come out and she was almost 80 in a book and so I nominated her for the legacy walk And I'm really excited when she became one of the first people and one of the people in the first cohort to be recognized so I'm really excited because tomorrow is going to be this unveiling of the legacy walk and One of the invited guests is her partner who's still alive Wilhelmina Perry who's in her 80s and is coming for this and so I'm very excited. I've never I've never met Antonia I've never met her Wilhelmina Perry, so I'm very excited to have the opportunity to meet her tomorrow She's coming especially from for this from New York She was so pleased to hear that her partner was being recognized in this way And she's flying and to be a part of the ceremony How absolutely amazing What's been your greatest challenge My greatest challenge well these days my greatest challenge is finding enough time to do all the things that I want to do I have so many projects and I want to Write this book about the queer Latina. Let's be organizing I have commitments to the Latino community projects that I'm doing I run a department at the Paul University, I run a journal There's just never enough time to do the things that we all you know would love to do with so many causes so many Things pulling at us, then I just wish there were more hours in the day to do more What's the biggest misconception about you? I think people think that I'm very quiet and I tend to am Pretty even kill but I am very loud and aggressive when I feel that there's an injustice being committed and Around me and I feel that I need to speak out and I do I make a lot of noise and try to make a difference when I See injustices around me and so I look like a quiet little Puerto Rican, but I think I can be pretty loud What was the last time you had to speak out about injustice? Oh, I think that I Think there's done is issues at school all the time where I feel that students are not being treated right or that Issues of being ignored For example right now, I think that our universities might include it needs to be doing more around Undocumented students. There's a lot of students Kids who are out there were undocumented who don't have an opportunity to get an education don't have access to Financial aid because they don't have social security numbers Citizens and I think this is an injustice and I think that schools such as mine Which are committed to social justice need to do more to ensure that? students undocumented students have a right to an education and that we need to be advocating To change their status so that they have the same rights as as other children and other young people who want to get an education Do you think that they will come I do think that they will come in my lifetime I think that there's a lot of activism now right now a lot of undocumented students have come out of the closet they've come out as undocumented and they're making their presence known and Telling the society that they've been a part of our culture of our schools and that they deserve opportunities and access to education just like everybody else and I think that will happen. I think that will happen Well, Dr. Torres, I would like to thank you very much for a wonderful interview. Well, thank you very much It's been a pleasure speaking with you and then those of you came for coming