 Fel ydych chi'n gilydd i'r 16 o'u gydag ar y 2018 o'r ysgolffau, ythdyntau i'r prydau i'r cyfnodau ac i'r cyfnodau cyfnodau. Rwy'n fwy o meddwl am y cyfnodau Llane Smith, MSP, ond byddai gynnig wedi'u ffrasil. Yn ystafell ar gyfer yma ymgyrch o'r pethau, mae'n cyfrifio'r ddechrau i'r ddysgu. Felly, mae'n ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r ddysgu'r... Wel, rwy'n cael ei ffrinais bydd o'i ddod seru gweithizeddolau iawn.ödow nhw teachers fe ddwyibo'r leisw grath nhw, fel sy'n grafonau, ond yn ddoch ei ddod fel bod e— mor ddubo i ddod dl oedd yn fathos seadw. Dd dddw lawr o kufei. Fel colliad â aronnir yn lu sydd bidon,iledd. Fel teimlad â inflation, fel ty rydw i dda unrhyw succ pinketh o passing y cweiddi, neu ddod seadw Us Alun. Bill Patterson. I have no interest in the public. They can look at my register of interest for further detail. The item agenda number two is the selection of a new convener. I am only here as a temporary member who will go through the process. The Parliament has agreed to be the only member of the Scottish National Party eligible for nomination as convener of the committee. I understand that Bill Kid is the party's nominee in this post. Is that correct? Yes. Are you happy to take the post? I would be. Do we agree that Bill Kid should be our convener? Yes. Okay. I have no second at will. Well done. Thank you. May you go over with our blessing on this little task. Thank you. Thank you very much. We will now change chairs and you can take over. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you everyone for your kindness. Thank you to Tom for your opening meeting for us and taking the initial steps. Further to the choice of the choice of deputy convener now has to be agreed by the committee. The Parliament has agreed that the only members of the Scottish Green Party are eligible for nomination as deputy convener of this committee. I understand that Mark Ruskell is the party's nominee for this post. Is that correct, Mark? That is, yes. Thank you very much. Okay. Do we agree to choose Mark Ruskell as our deputy convener? Great. Great stuff. Well, congratulations, Mark. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for working with colleagues. Thanks very much. Okay. Let's get into the nitty-gritty, I think, if we can call this. Okay. Agenda item 4 is in relation to cross-party groups and recognition of such. So we have evidence to take on four proposed cross-party groups and the first group we have to consider is the proposed cross-party group on prevention and healing of adverse childhood experiences known as ACEs. I would like to welcome Rona Mackay to the meeting, thank you Rona for attending, and Rona is a member of the proposed group. So I'd invite Rona to make an opening statement in terms of why we should approve the cross-party group. Thank you, convener. Well, firstly, I'm here on behalf of Gail Ross, who is the convener, but who is off ill at the moment, and Gail has asked me to pass on her apologies and to thank you for accepting a substitute to come here today. I think that the deputy convener is in committee, so that's really why I'm here. Gail held a member's debate on ACEs in January of this year, and it gained a lot of support. And I think that we all know the importance and the need for a group such as ACEs. The Scottish Government have made a large commitment in the programme for government, and there's a growing awareness of just the challenges that adverse childhood experiences have on people throughout their lives. Starting in childhood has a huge impact on health, wellbeing and the future opportunities. And I think it was felt that we needed to have something in Parliament just to bring to life and to have people who've experienced adverse, have had experience of it, come in a informal setting, not in a public meeting and be able to give us their account of it. And that was partly one of the reasons that I think that Gail wanted to constitute it. Thank you very much. Can I invite any questions from members regarding the proposed cross-party group? Just a very quick one, Rona. Obviously, Gail Ross is the convener and then MacArthur MSP for Orkney's is on it. How can you make sure that people from, say, the more remote areas like the Highlands and Islands can be included or that organisations that are based in there are included or involved in the group? Having Liam as a member is really helpful, and I know that he's been spreading the word up there. I think that the aim is just to cover the whole of Scotland and make sure that we are aware that it's not all just happening in the central belt and it's not just Glasgow and Edinburgh, it's all over. Through Liam and I think that the Secretary are very prepared to get as wide a participation as possible. Thank you. Thanks, Jamie. Mark, please. Thank you, convener. Obviously, it's a hugely important agenda as you've outlined, Rona. I'm just wondering, though, given that there are two other CPGs that are effectively overlapping, has there been any consideration of joint meetings to share the experiences of members of this group with members of other groups that would obviously have passed in this area but might not want to spend their entire time focused on these particular issues? I think that this was obviously looked into as with all cross-party groups. I think that it was thought that this was so specific in its kind of remit that an ISIS group shouldn't be prevented if there was any common links with other groups. There was definitely a need for one specific ISIS group. We will be focusing on specific issues within that group that other groups may not. I think that that was the purpose for it. Will there actually be joint meetings, though? I think that we're seeing this increasingly with cross-party groups that they're sharing agendas and sharing experiences. The answer is that I don't really know, but I'm sure that it wouldn't be rolled out. Any other questions at all? Yes, Tom. To follow on from that, the organisations that are involved with your group, are they also on the other groups as well? I imagine some of them are, but I can't answer for sure to be quite honest. I don't know what other groups who have got on their books, so I'm not awfully sure. The Wave Trust is the secretary app for the group, and they've got quite a wide reach for all those subjects, so they may well be, but I'm just not sure. Thank you, Tom. I'm just looking at the makeup of the group so far. The spread of people who are participating in MSPs across the Parliament and the parties, and the numbers, is quite impressive. It's very much cross-party, and it has got widespread support. Thank you very much. Anyone else at all? Thank you very much to the members for those worthwhile questions. I'd like to thank Rona Mackay for her attendance. The committee will consider whether to approve the application for recognition when we reach agenda item 5 today. You will be informed, and Gail Ross MSP, as the proposed convener, will also be informed. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Thank you very much. The second group that we have today to consider as a cross-party group was a cross-party group on combating sectarianism in Scottish society, and I would like to welcome James Don and MSP to the meeting. James will be the convener of the proposed group, and I would invite James to make an opening statement about the purpose of the group, please. Thank you, convener. As many of you will know, and you won't be able to tell by looking at me, but I'm actually a child of the 60s and without the hippie look in the long hair. During the 60s, sectarianism was pretty rife in Glasgow. It was certainly where I stayed west of Scotland. There's been huge steps towards making that disappear. There's no doubt about it. Society works much harder together, but for me, in recent years, there's been a perceived by me, upsurging that, mostly based around football, but there's been other incidences elsewhere in society that I think have to be dealt with, the most obvious one being the attack on the priest outside St Alfonso's Church, just around about the same time as the Norman's Walk was taking place. We've been told that the perpetrator of this wasn't a follower of the walk, wasn't a member of the walk, but they happened around about the same time. I think there's clearly some kind of link there. For me, there's something that has to be done on that. I was personally disappointed, for example, football is a great attractor to this. Glasgow football west of Scotland is a great attractor to sectarianism. I personally was disappointed when the Offensive Behaviour Act was repealed. I think that we have to make sure that we send out a strong message that we still take it seriously, and what I'm hoping to do with this cross-party group is do that. Although I've mentioned football, I've also said that it's not just in football and that we will not be concentrating solely in there, but we do have to recognise that it does have an almost unique place in the Scottish society when it comes to sectarianism. Thank you very much for that, James. That's the opening statement. Do we have any questions from members regarding this proposal? We don't have any. Sorry. I'll probably just put my foot on it now, but I'm not staying quiet when I should. We've got a wide range of people who have agreed to join us, and I've got a meeting with the SFA and SPFL on Monday, but the Church of Scotland and many others have said that they're going to participate in this. Can I just ask one thing then, because you've opened the door now? Will there be other church-based organisations? Everybody's been invited. I'm saying that. Hopefully everybody's been invited. We've sent out a wide range of invitations to religious groups, and we've had very positive responses from a number of them. Thank you very much. Yes, Maureen. As well as the football bodies, have you had any responses or have you sent out letters to specific football teams and had any responses? If I remember correctly, I have to be careful here because I can't remember all the letters that were sent out. I can't remember if we decided not to, because we did discuss sending out to the Celtic Rangers, but I honestly can't remember if we did or not, Maureen. Anyone else have another question? Thank you very much for putting forward the case for the cross-party group. The committee will consider whether to approve this application for recognition when we reach our agenda item for that, and we will inform you of the decision thereafter. Thank you very much. The third group that we have to consider today is the proposed cross-party group on the Scottish Gypsy Traveller community. I'd like to welcome Mary Fee MSP to the meeting. Mary would be the convener of the proposed group, and I would invite Mary to make an opening statement about the purpose of the group. The main purpose of the group would be to provide a forum for discussion and information sharing on issues related to the problems that are faced by the Scottish Gypsy Traveller community. The group will promote the interests and raise awareness of the issues that affect them. People around the table may know that the Gypsy Traveller community is one of the most disproportionately affected groups in Scotland that are affected by discrimination. It's an issue that I have campaigned on since I came into this Parliament. They are a marginalised community that, on a day-to-day basis, face prejudice and discrimination, and the aim of the group is to try and raise the profile of the Gypsy Traveller community, but also find ways to tackle and eradicate the discrimination that they face. OK, thank you very much for that. Can I ask if there are any questions from members regarding this proposed group? Yes, Mark. Thank you. Gypsy Traveller communities are so badly disenfranchised and perhaps very remote from the activities and the considerations in this Parliament. So I'm just interested to know how the CPG will engage with those communities on the ground and actually bring their real-life experiences into the CPG. A lot of organisations in here, a lot of representative organisations and bodies and agencies, I'm just wondering how do you get those real experiences into these rooms? I mean, there are a lot of organisations that work directly with the Gypsy Traveller community, but perhaps it might be a bit helpful to give you a bit of background. In the last session of Parliament I was convener of the Equalities Committee when we carried out two inquiries into the Gypsy Traveller community and the issues that they face. I made a lot of contacts within the Gypsy Traveller community and they are very distanced from public life. They are very reluctant to come forward and it took a long time to build up relationships when I was convener of the Equalities Committee with that community and we were fairly successful. After the last two reports were done in the last session of Parliament there was a slight dip in engagement between if you like public life and the Gypsy Traveller community and I have spent a considerable amount of time rebuilding that trust and rebuilding that relationship and this is why I am now proposing that this cross-party group be set up because I am now in a position to re-engage. The community are quite happy to come forward and engage with politicians and come back into this building and talk about their experiences and talk about the discrimination that they face. So there are a number of reasons that the cross-party group is being set up now and it is about that rebuilding of trust and the community are ready to engage again. You look full out. Anyone else at all? Perhaps I could mention something myself if you don't mind, Mary. I, about 10 years ago, was on the precursor to the Equalities Committee and we did do some work on the Gypsy Traveller community in Scotland back then and there was a report done, as you say, there has been some more work done since then in the Parliament. Do you think that there has been any movement forward in terms of integration and a better relationship with the Gypsy Traveller community and the general community? Not as much as I would like to have seen. I mean, there has been a small decline in some of the attitudes and discrimination that they face. There are pockets of good practice across the country. North-east, there is a very good relationship within some schools and the local Gypsy Travelling community. If you look at the most recent social attitude study, 34 per cent of people still believe that a Gypsy Traveller would be unsuitable to be a teacher and 31 per cent of the population would be unhappy if a member of their family were to marry a Gypsy Traveller. While some progress has been made, there is still a huge amount of work that needs to be done. The time is right for the cross-party group to, if you like, take up the mantle and try to tackle some of that discrimination. I would like to thank you, Mary, for putting forward your case for the cross-party group. I know that you will be staying on for consideration of the next group. We only have four, so you are not going to do much longer. Thank you very much for that one. You are welcome. The final group that we have to consider is the proposed cross-party group on women's justice, and Mary Fee is still with us. She is joining us for consideration of this group, and Mary would be the deputy convener of the proposed group on women's justice. Can you make an opening statement on the purpose of this group, please? Thank you, convener. The cross-party group on women's justice would focus on every aspect of women's experience within the justice system. Women in the justice system is something that is very much in the public interest. Too many women are being incarcerated on short sentences or on remand. It is very much to the detriment of family life. There is very little support for women to be rehabilitated rather than send them to prison. More often than not, women have a very negative experience of the court process and the justice system. Women are more likely to lose all contact with their family, including their children, if they are incarcerated for any length of time. Thank you very much for that. Any questions at all from any member, please? Oh, sorry, yes, Jamie. I will raise the point that I nearly always make. Obviously, there are specific issues with the Highlands and Islands, particularly people from the Highlands and Islands that might be incarcerated. I know that you have got two representatives, at least here. Are there any specific organisations that you think could be involved in this? How do you make sure that the specific needs of the Highlands and Islands are included on those from more remote areas? Obviously, we have Rhoda Grant and Liam McArthur who are signed up. We have a list of initial organisations that are happy to work with the CPG. I have worked very closely with families outside and the Prison Reform Trust, and they have very good links across the country to other organisations. Obviously, once the group is established, Rhoda Grant and Liam McArthur may be able to give us more information about local groups because we are very keen to reach out because I am very aware that women's experience of the justice system varies greatly between the central bell and the Highlands and Islands. Thanks, Jimmy. Yes, Tom. Obviously, the situation in Scotland is not unique to Scotland. The most issues are around the 90 kingdom in general, in fact, in Europe as well. Were you able to bring into the effect of those as well as the influence of those or learning from other places? The cross-party group would be more than happy to look at good practice from elsewhere in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. I know from previous work that I have done that there are different models of rehabilitation. There are different models within the penal system across Europe and there is some very good practice and we would be more than happy to look at that. If you look at the recent past, the commission on women offenders that Dame Eilish and Joleney completed, there are a number of recommendations and she pulls on evidence from other parts of the UK and of Europe and that is something that we will be looking very closely at. Any follow-up? Maureen, please. Hi, Mary. Has there been any interest expressed by those people who work in prisons in relation to families, actual people employed by the SPS? Contact officers. The committee may know, I also convene the cross-party group in families affected by imprisonment and that cross-party group looks specifically at issues that affect families, whether that is contact time with offenders, the time it takes to travel to and from prison, issues within the school because of the impact of offending on children. That cross-party group works very closely with the Scottish Prison Service and the family contact officers. I have an existing relationship with family contact officers and that is something that I would be keen to explore further once that cross-party group is established. Thank you very much. Any further questions at all? OK, thank you. I would like to thank Mary Fee, MSP for her attendance here today and just to let you know, the committee will consider whether to approve this application when we come to agenda item 5. You will be informed officially of the decision thereafter. Thank you very much, Mary. Thank you, convener. OK. We are not going into private session anyway, so we can just carry straight on if that is all right with people. Agenda item 5, which is cross-party group approval, so what I propose to do is mention each of the four proposed cross-party groups that we have had here today. If anyone has any doubts or whatever, they can raise them at that point or if they have any comments to make. The first of the four was the prevention and healing of adverse childhood experiences or ACEs. Anyone have any comments to make about the presentation? OK. Shall we say then that that will be approved by the committee? Thank you. The second was a cross-party group proposed on combating sectarianism in Scottish society. Any comments from anyone regarding that? No comments. Shall we say that that is approved then as a cross-party group? Agreed. Then we had the third proposed and that was the Scottish Gypsy Traveller community. And do we have any comments to raise there? No comments. Would that be agreed then? Agreed. Thank you very much. Finally, CPG on women's justice and would there be any comments regarding this? No comments. OK. CPG on women's justice should be recognised. Thank you very much indeed. OK. That has finished with the cross-party groups discussion at the moment. I am sure that we will have more in the future. Agenda item 6 still in public. Agenda item 6 regards the commissioner for ethical standards in public life in Scotland. We are here to consider a revision to the direction to the commissioner for ethical standards in public life in Scotland. At the meeting on 28 June of this committee there was a review of the directions to the commissioner and it was agreed on 28 June to reduce the period of time that the commissioner required to retain documents and records considered in the course of his investigations. That proposal by this committee in the revised direction is to reduce the period of time for retention of these documents from five years to 12 months. That's one year, obviously. Anyone have any comments to raise issues at all? None. Can we state that we believe that this should be our direction and that the revised direction should be that the retention of these documents and records by the commissioner is to be reduced from five years to a period of 12 months. I'd like to thank everyone for that because that was painless. I'd like to close the meeting and thank you all for your attendance. I'll see you at the next meeting.