 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everybody. Wherever you're coming to us today, welcome to another episode of The Nonprofit Show. I am so thrilled, because I have one of my favorite guests of all times on with me today, Tony Bell of Fundraising Academy at National University. And this is a really unique thing. We have a topic that's such a big topic that we're gonna do one of our two-day drill downs. We don't do this very often, only a few times, a handful of times throughout the year. And today, as part of this two-day opportunity, we're gonna be talking about donor approaches and how to understand them. It's a big topic and Tony, we could not have a better guide for this conversation. So I'm super excited to jump into this. Again, if we haven't met yet, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. As our executive producer, Kevin Pace reminded us today, not a member of the Motion Picture Academy. We have no votes. And Fundraising Academy, alas, has no votes, but you just have to deal with it. There is your ransom, the non-profit nerd, is off today, we'll be joining with her tomorrow. Again, we wanna thank all of our presenting sponsors who make this conversation possible. From Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, be generous. Fundraising Academy at National University, who, by the way, was one of our very first sponsors. Staffing boutique, non-profit thought leader, and the non-profit nerd. We've done more than 700 of these episodes. So if you wanna catch up, you can find us on any of our archive places from Roku, YouTube, Vimeo, and even Amazon Fire TV, where we have channels. You can also listen to the non-profit show. We just hit the 10,000 marker milestone, where 10,000 folks have downloaded, or we've had 10,000 downloads of our podcast, which is amazing. So we wanna make sure everybody knows you can queue up content that way. That's a lot of hours on a treadmill. I know, our vacuuming. I know, isn't that crazy? That's pretty exciting. That's fantastic, congratulations. Thank you, thank you. Tony Bell, Senior Director, Relationship Center, National University, Fundraising Academy. It's really, I think, important for all of our viewers and listeners to know that you are a man who's come from the non-profit sector. So when you talk about this in an educational way, and through this whole process, you're a man who's been on the other side of the desk, right? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And that's what really, I mean, those experiences in raising money in my local community is what made me so passionate about the sector. And then as I started seeing opportunities to support professional learning and professional development in the sector, then I was like, pshh, you know, yes, that's where I need to be. So, you know, for the last four years, I have been beyond grateful to be part of National University and the Fundraising Academy to help support professional learning for the sector and really help elevate the work and the voices of the folks that are so passionate about the communities they serve. You know, Tony, I've said this to you privately. I've witnessed this publicly. In many ways, it breaks my heart that I did not know about this when I started doing this, just for my community, as a non-paid professional, just as a community activist, you know, 30 years ago, I would have raised millions and millions of dollars more. I left too much money on the table and for my community and for the things that I cared about. And so that's why this is, to me, it's such a personal thing. And I wanna start off by explaining, having you explain to our viewers and listeners that this is what we're gonna talk about is kind of like a, if you will, a small piece of a much bigger process. So if you could talk briefly about the eight-step cause-selling cycle. Sure, absolutely, Julie. I'm happy to do that. You know, and again, honored to be today's representative of this curriculum. So Dr. David Lill was one of the architects or the architect of this curriculum. So it's great again to be here and help share it with everyone. But yeah, so this is what everyone's seeing right now is our cause-selling cycle is an eight-step cycle. Today, we're going to focus on step three on approach. What I love about this curriculum is how each of these steps just naturally flow into one another and support each other. But as a learner, like today, you will still, with our focus on approach, you will still walk away with really great information and actionable recommendations, if you will, to help you enhance your work. So it's great, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. But when you have those opportunities to dive into one of the steps, it'll still be super meaningful, even if you haven't really dived into the steps prior. Yeah, I think I agree with that. As an outsider, you know, I think, first of all, it is very natural. This is, we use the word cause-selling, that phraseology, but it is very natural and it is so, it reduces the amount of stress that a lot of times I think people think about when they're involved in fundraising because it just makes it like a natural component which I think ultimately Tony makes it more sustainable. Yeah, I totally agree. And the other thing that I wanted to point out too is when this curriculum was developed, it really was developed with emerging fundraising professionals in mind. So it really was developed to help support those fundraisers that were one to five years in their career. So like you said, Julia, I could have raised so much more money for my community had I had this understanding. We did this stuff, but we didn't have this understanding or necessarily embraced how it flows and supports each other. So when I hear incredible individuals like you and many other folks around the country that have been in the game and passionate about this for a while to hear them say, wish I had had it or even today I'm learning from it or it's reminding me of different strategies that I've used in the past. It's super exciting to hear how it supports folks really at any point in their career in fundraising. Right. Well, I wanna make sure that before we move forward and you can see, I have all my notes. But I shouldn't have probably taken those out now that I look at this on camera. But I mean, I really do use this. So this is the cause selling textbook from National University. As I understand it, you are in revision for an updated book, but this is where we actually take this information from as part of your curriculum. So let's dive in. And first off, talking about donor approach, can you give us just a real quick, like what does this mean? Cause we have seven of these. Yeah. We definitely do. There are seven approaches or at least we're highlighting seven different types of approaches that folks may use. But when we talk about approach, it's really about making a meaningful first impression. And how do we do that? So that's part of the approach. And again, for those folks that might dive in a little bit deeper into the curriculum and get the textbook, there's so much in there about approach and first impressions and all of that mindfulness and intention that needs to go into your thought process. When, before you actually engage with a donor but that's really what it's all about. It's making a meaningful first impression, opening up the conversation. Cause we talked about how these steps are, are kind of stackable, if you will. So the next step is needs discovery. So your approach really helps set the stage for a successful needs discovery conversation with the potential donor investor for your cause. So I love that you talked about this because it makes me think that if you understand these seven items that you're not just like, oh, I was successful or I was not successful. It makes me think that you can understand how or why you were successful or how or why you weren't successful. And so the first donor approach you talk about is relevant, the relevancy of a project approach. Talk to us about that. Yeah, so that is letting the potential donor investor to your organization know that you've done your research and you know what some of the specific areas are that are closest to their heart. What are their passion places? So by using this relevant approach, you are acknowledging to this individual that you have done your research, you know where their heart is sitting when it comes to their philanthropic giving. Wow, so we've talked about this a little bit before and I've asked you this question and I'll ask you again. Does this seem intrusive when as a fundraiser I go before somebody and I say, I've done my research and I know that you're interested in animal welfare, let's just say, is that how you would go about this or do you not use that word? I've done my research. I'm like, do you see what I'm saying? I totally see what you're saying. But leading up to the approach, you've had some pre-approach. Like the approach is like now we're here. Okay. And face to face of whatever that might mean, right? That could be online, a digital convening, face to face in some other brick and mortar location. So you've had some interaction prior to this convening. So you may have learned some of this through the original conversations, but I don't think that there's anything wrong too. And again, when some of this will make more sense when folks take a deeper dive into the curriculum, but also as part of your pre-approach and your prospecting, you're learning about these individuals. You might see them on LinkedIn, you might see them on Instagram. And even just through those, you will get some understanding potentially of their passion so that you can come to them with that relevant approach. So I don't know that I would necessarily say, I've checked you out. Because I've checked you out, this is what I know. You know what? You used a really good word. And I don't know if this is because you come from National University, but it could be. But you used the word learning. I've been learning. And I think that's a better, that's more comfortable than, I've done my research and I checked you out. So I get that. Anyway, I just had to put you on the hot seat a little bit. Okay, so we've gone from relevant impact, or relevant approach. Relevant project, yeah. Now we're gonna talk about impact. What does that mean? Because we use the word impact like it's the holy grail of all things in the nonprofit sector. But what are you talking about here? Yeah, so this approach conveys your organization's impact and also what could happen to your organization if you were unable to continue that work. So again, it's part of understanding your potential donor prior to this meeting. So that you would know potentially the types of things that would intrigue them around. And if are the results driven, are those impact numbers going to really resonate with them? We have a whole nother separate session on donor styles. And even understanding the donor style before going into this will help you also determine which of these approaches you might want to use. Because the impact approach may not be right for everyone, just like the relevant approach. None of these approaches are meant to be a one size fits all. That's why we're showing you seven of them. And I'm sure viewers and listeners could probably add another seven based on their experiences. So the impact approach is something like, because of individuals and donors like you, 20,000 children in our community don't have to worry about going into that hungry. So when I hear you use this, when we're talking about this donor approach, would it be fair to say that this is gonna be much more of like a stats based? Number oriented. And I don't wanna discount this, but maybe less emotional and more scientific. Does that make sense? I think it's a good marriage of data and passion. Because yeah, I think, but definitely the data piece that you're calling out is at the forefront of this impact approach. Yeah, interesting. Well, and I think that it's not just for the individuals, but I think funders and you've used that word brilliantly, the donor investor, this is where we're going folks. I mean, you gotta really have some metrics about your organization because don't you think, Tony? I mean, this is like one of the biggest trends in the last five years of our sector. And I don't want you to sway us too far off topic, but this is also where organizations need to have really tight alignment between programs and fundraising so that fundraisers can go out there and talk about the results of programs and really be able to share the impact of the programs that they're hoping that this potential donor investor will want to support. Yeah, I'm really, really glad you brought that up because I think you're absolutely right. And if ever we needed a reason to understand why this is all of a sudden something that everybody's talking about, it's that. I mean, yeah, really brilliant. Okay, so we've got one and two, we've talked about the alliance aspect of how you work with donors and we're now gonna move on to step number three. And this, I told you off air or maybe we were in the green room chatter at this point, but I think this is like one of my favorite words and curiosity, the curiosity approach. And I'm super intrigued because we don't use this word a lot with fundraising. So what does this mean? Well, I can tell you that at National University and especially today, we have new leadership, a new president for the university. And a curiosity mindset is something that's running through our entire organization. We really are instilling this curiosity mindset. So the curiosity approach is where you get the potential donor investor thinking about something as you start the conversation. Because again, these approaches are meant to lead you to the needs discovery. So you can have the larger conversation around what really resonates with the individual that you want to help support your cause. So the curiosity approach, some might find it gimmicky and you have to be a little careful because a driver or an analytical person is not gonna be like, why are you asking me this question? Okay, that's interesting. But I mean, so the curiosity approach might be something like, have you ever imagined what it might feel like to know that your actions help the child sleep better at night? So that's just, yeah, and that's just off the top of my head. But that's kind of an example of a curiosity question where you are challenging in the best possible way the potential donor investor to really create a vision in their mind and really sit back and think, how would I feel if I had that opportunity? You know, Tony, this seems to me like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to me like a question or approach for a donor that I might quantify as like a big idea. Like not, okay, join us in the mission and you're gonna be one of many doing the same thing, but this is the bigger picture. This is like a named project or a named building. Is that what that means? Yes, yes, Julia, yes. I mean, I was going to say this approach, in my humble opinion, is perfect when you're in a capital campaign. This type of curiosity question, I think is really effective when you're in a capital campaign. I love it. I love it. I think this is a really cool idea. I see it's not for everyone. Before we move on, do you sense that this might be better for a certain demographic or age group or is this more like a personality thing? I think it's more of a person, yeah, I don't want to kind of box it into a demographic or yeah, I mean, I think asking that question can get anyone excited about the answer or really create that opportunity for them maybe to sit back and reflect a little bit before they launch into their answer. You know, it's such an interesting thing to be thinking about this entire process and I'm going to go ahead and pull up a list of all of our donor approaches and there's seven main ones that in the cause selling cycle you talk about and we've talked about this morning the relevant, the impact and the curiosity and what I heard you saying and maybe this is like the first time I've really understood this but you're kind of saying to us these are the, you've already done your homework you've already kind of figured out who it is you're going to be talking to this structure is just helping you refine how you're talking to somebody. Exactly, yeah, it's really meant to be a tool again to help open up and start the conversation right, again to really bridging into that larger needs discovery conversation again it's just, it's an opportunity as you're saying to reflect on what you know about this potential donor and investor and which of these approaches might really resonate with that individual so that you're just again it's all about providing tools and helping fundraisers be as best prepared as possible for that moment of truth. Right, right. Okay, now we don't have a lot of time left. I know it goes by too fast. It goes by too fast. Tomorrow, stay with us because we're going to go through the last four but ever since I've been preparing for this discussion with you and thinking about this a question popped up into my head that I just had to ask today as we're finishing up if you're meeting with a couple and you've determined that one might be one way and one might be the other how do you bridge that? That is a really good question and I think I'd be able I'm probably setting myself up for an even tougher question but this is where I reflect on the other tools that are available through cost selling like the donor styles. So I could figure out the donor style of companion A and the donor style of companion B or companion C with 2023. And if I understood their donor style then I might be able to see some connectivity or where some blind spots might be in my approach. So I would say that's when you have to take a really invest more time that's why it's called development and go deeper before you have your approach so you're understanding and being mindful of the different styles within that couple. Right. Well, and I'm because I'm thinking about now like multi-generational you have maybe the parents and then you have you know the kids or you have the grandkids or you have a financial advisor or you have the attorney or the accountant. Sure. It's a lot of voices now getting involved in this process. And I would say probably the most common kind of yin and yang of that would be the impact approach or the curiosity approach. Because they're pretty they're pretty far apart in the spectrum. So they're kind of the what you would come across. And again, you can do that. It's easy to ask that question. How would you feel if you could help 10,000 children? Love it. So there's ways to connect that. Yeah, I love that. Okay, cool. Well, I'm glad I asked that question. I know that was something that I've really been thinking about and kind of because you know, Tony, whenever we do these we have these opportunities to really learn from you. It dredges up in me personally all these times I've sat across the desk and asked for money or tried to build engagement and I wasn't successful, right? So because I've been going back 30 years of doing this in my community going why didn't this work? And so that was one of those things that popped up. But anyway, Julia, give yourself some grace on that and don't spend too much time. You've unlocked a piece of my brain, sadly. But no, I mean, it really does, Tony. It really does make me think, you know, okay, when I was with that donor it's soup and salad or super salad, whatever. And you know, I didn't get the million dollars. I only got 500 grand. What happened? You know what I mean? So anyway, now tomorrow we're going to go through four more. And again, this is all about understanding how we can do a better job of connecting with our donors, building longer-term relationships and really making sure that we are setting everybody up for success. So stick with us tomorrow. Again, we don't do this very often. It's really a treat for us to be able to get this added thing. Tony Bell, Senior Director of Relationship Center at National University, Fundraising Academy. Again, Tony being an individual that's been in our sector and understands this, you're not just an academician, but you've really walked the walk. So it has been amazing. Before we let you go, could you very briefly talk about My Learning Portal? It's a new concept for the most part. It's free, right? Well, for the all part. For the all part. Yeah, yeah. Currently for the all part. So erupting goosebumps. I'm so excited. The Fundraising Academy team under the direction and leadership of an incredible director, Pearl Hoglund, have created this incredible digital resource that is free. You can go to the URL is on the lower right-hand corner I think. Thank you. And you create user ID and password and you have access to so much of the cause selling curriculum through the portal. So again, you can take a little deeper dive into what we've talked about today, but it really is part of our commitment in National University's commitment to elevate the nonprofit sector and specifically provide them with accessible tools to help them excel and better support the communities they serve. It's amazing. It's really beautifully done. It's logical. It's easy to use and it really allows you, I think Tony, if you were having an issue or concern or you lost your confidence in something, you can go on and really help drill down on what, you know, where you need help, right? Some extra support. And there are a few resources there that we created that aren't in the textbook. So, yeah, you'll find some other secret sauce in the portal there. I love it. It's beautifully done. I can't recommend it enough. Online.fundraising-academy excuse me, hyphen academy.org. Check them out. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And once and the non-profit nerd will be back with us again tomorrow, we want to thank all of our presenting sponsors who allow these types of conversations from Blumerang, American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller. Be generous. Fundraising Academy at National University, Staffing Boutique, non-profit thought leader, and a non-profit nerd. Wow. You've really got me thinking in a new way today, Tony, there's so much more I have to say it kind of like builds my confidence in the process. Did I pick your curiosity? You did. And you made me think that if I know these things that I'm not like winging it while I'm meeting with somebody. Does that make sense? I don't know if I'm articulating that, but I can go in to meet with a donor investor more confident because I've already figured out this is the way I'm going to take the conversation. And you're also aware of the other approaches. So let's say for example, you know, you kind of misfire with the first approach, you can pivot and think about the other approaches that you're aware of and make that shift. Love that. Yeah, that's a really good comment. Well, we've talked about three of the seven. Join us tomorrow because we're going to be finishing up with the next four which are just as powerful, extremely different, but so relevant. And again, with my dog-eared copy of a cost-selling book I think it's going to be time for me to get a new book. Anyway, hey everybody. This has been a lot of fun. Super, super valuable to have any time I get with the amazing Tony Bell of Fundraising Academy at National University. Thank you, sir. Be well. Hey, have a great day. And as we remind everyone to stay well so you can do well. Thanks everybody. We'll see you back here tomorrow.