 Thank you. Good afternoon. It's a great pleasure to be joining this seminar, which I have been enjoying for the last two quarters. And today I just want to make a very simple presentation of the options for Brazil regarding net zero. Now net zero is a great concept. It's something that is very transparent. And ultimately we all know it's essential because the effects in terms of global warming of carbon, they are cumulative. So as long as you put more carbon, you're going to get more warm. And this has, of course, serious consequences for the planet. It is possible that at some point you may have actually to remove carbon. And this something that a lot of people in Stanford are working these days. So the way I structured the presentation is first to try to look at the global emissions and where Brazil stands in global emissions, then look at some of the options of Brazil in terms of clean energy sources, which of course are essential if you want to reduce emissions. And then also who are the users and what are the choices and the speed that you may want to introduce some changes in addition to what you already have. And so if you look at the CO2 per capita, you see that you have, we are in Brazil, there's a little circle. We are much lower emissions than say the US, Canada, Australia, the big ones, but also European countries, including those countries that don't rely a lot on coal like Germany or Korea is not European, I learned, but relies on coal a lot. So as a CO2 per capita, very low, if you look at CO2 per GDP, you also do quite well, not as well as some of the countries that most of GDP come from the service sector, like France and other very developed countries, but certainly comparing with other developing countries, like India, China, Turkey, if you put Mexico, let alone the ones that have rely a lot in fossil fuels like South Africa and Russia, you're also quite low. I did this a little beautiful map. It shows here, Brazil, very little column for that. So in this sense, it's very good. And if you think in terms of what you have to do, it shows very clear what we have to do because the big difference between Brazil and the world, and here are the two pies, is that most of our emissions come from what is called agriculture, forestry and other land uses, which means basically agriculture, especially livestock and deforestation. If you look at the world, this is just 24% a quarter of emissions. In the case of Brazil, there's 70% of emissions, which means that for most of our GDP, the emissions are just one third for, I would say, some 90% of GDP. This is being contrasted with other countries and the world as a whole, where both industry and electricity, where again, you rely a lot on fossil fuels to generate, they are very important part of their total emissions. So this makes us very clear what are some of our, say, priorities to ensure that we don't have, you go to zero. Now, one point with respect to emissions is that even considering all the Amazon and everything, still our emissions are relatively low. Here is a chart with a lot of information, maybe some of you will get the presentation later. But just one thought is that if you think of all the trees in the Amazon, all the carbon that's there, suppose all of these were burned, not only disappear, but they're burned, they go to the atmosphere. This would be less than five years of what the world has spent in everyday life. All the forest in the Amazon is less than five years of emissions from fossil fuels. And actually, all the deforestation in the Amazon contributes with 1%, every year contributes with less than 1% of global emissions. So why I'm saying that? Not because this is not a problem, but first, this is one of the many, many risks of the world. And actually, this is one of the many risks of Brazil, because when you're thinking about climate change, the Amazon is a piece of the puzzle, but perhaps it's not the biggest risk when you think about other forests and if you think about other sources, in addition to fossil fuels. However, this is not to say that deforestation is no problem, very much to the country. Deforestation is a big problem for Brazil. The little map on the top is the map that the UN, the panel on climate change, has put. And it shows what is going to happen to many countries in a two-degree scenario. As they stress, it varies from place to place. In many places, the temperature will go more than two degrees. And in Brazil, this can happen. See a lot of the air in Brazil, you actually have more than two degrees here, particularly in the hottest day. But it doesn't matter, which means that the Amazon is under stress. It will be under stress in a drier, hotter climate. And the Amazon has a tremendous service that it makes for Brazil, which is it is the mechanism to which we can bring moisture from the ocean, from the trade winds, and go through all the forests. And it only goes because the forest, the trees, they transpire. Where you don't have trees, when you don't have this transpiration that makes a local cycle, the moisture just condenses, goes to the river, go back to the sea. And this is why, actually in a lot of subtropical areas in Africa and Australia, you have actually dry areas. In Brazil, the center of the Latin America is not that much dry because we have these, what is called now the rivers in the sky, which are aerial rivers, which are exactly this massive transmission of moisture there. This is important for us, because first, there is where you have our agriculture, which is very important for our economy. And actually for the world, we are a major supplier of food. And you know that where you don't have food, you don't have bees. But also Brazil relies are going to see next a lot on hydropower. And all the rivers in Brazil, they start exactly at the core of our continent, which means that preserving the Amazon is not something that perhaps you make that much of a change after all, just in terms of emissions, but can be dramatic for Brazilians. And this is why this has to be a priority of all of us. Now, this map at the left of the screen shows again the composition. It's like the pie, but with more detail. There's a lot of information in Brazil about these things. The civil society has done incredible work in this respect and the governments too, at least until recently. And here again, we see that most of our emissions come from change of land use and agriculture livestock. Livestock basically, I presume many of you know, because of the called enteric emissions, which means the ruminants when they digest, they generate methane. And methane is tremendously powerful. In the short run, 100 times more powerful than carbon in terms of captured warm. So this is why it's so big and Brazil has a large livestock herd. So, but let's focus on the top of the chart, where you have the several, say, industrial activities, the modern economy that put that way. What you see there is that basically we're talking about 600 megatons of carbon. And it's there where you have to focus together with stopping the deforestation and a lot of things on agriculture that's already being done, but I'm not going to get into detail where you have to address the problems to see how fast you can further reduce our footprint. And as in any, say, modern economy, ultimately, these means electricity, energy in different forms of guises. And when you look here at the table, you'll see this combination and say the partition for the main sources where we use the energy and because of this, we emit. You see there's a first block, which are freight passes and transportation basically. Then there's heavy industry. And then you have household and sanitation. Sanitation, again, is a problem of a methane, because often a solid waste is not adequately treated. And when there's a decompose, it produces methane. And these end up being very harmful for the atmosphere. So, like I said, these will turn around energy. Now, if you look at the energy, why Brazil has such a small footprint, like we saw at the beginning of the presentation, basically, because we rely a lot on renewable energy on different forms. We rely a lot on organic sources. You'll be biofields, it can be wood. We have a huge commercial industry for paper and pulp. And this industry is basically self-sufficient because they use the part of the wood that is not the trees, that is not, that does go directly for the paper or the pulp they use to generate heat for the process. The same thing for the production of sugar and the production of ethanol. We use the, say, the sugarcane up to the last grain. And with this way, you actually, in addition to produce the sugar and ethanol, you also produce electricity as an additional product. So, and in our electricity sources, if you see the little pie at the bottom, you're going to see the 70%, basically two-thirds are hydro. And then we have already quite significant part of wind. And we have a part of a biofuel, because, like I said, you burn the bagasse, which is basically the sugarcane after it extracts the sugar to generate electricity. And then solar is still quite small, but is important. And coal is basically disappearing. We have a tiny nuclear, but you don't see that increasing. Now, it's important before we go in more detail with specific sources to understand the basic of the energy sector in Brazil. It is a continental country, but there is one great advantage even comparing the US. It's an integrated single market with already a good amount of transmission, which means that basically you can be in any place of Brazil and you may be using energy carbon from all sorts of places. And this map you cannot see in detail, but you're going to see the northeast at the right side of the top of the country. You get a lot of green areas. These are basically the wind power. Then you have spread out the solar and the big orange circles are the hydropower. And then you have a Taipu, you have a Belomonte, you have a number of things. And this is why we have all this network, transmission network. It just happened that you learn this transmission network was put there to bring the electricity from the hydropower, hydropower plants to other consumer areas. It turned out that when you got the solar and the wind power, this transmission system provided a wonderful, extremely cheap form to distribute this energy, transmit this energy all over the country. And then why we are in such a good shape when you talk about renewable. Because this being a large country, you have a very interesting correlation between wind, solar and hydropower. The maps at your right show, actually your left, show the seasonal pattern of temperatures, so insulation of rain, so hydropower of wind. And what you see is that during the summer, which in Brazil is December, February, you get a lot of rain and not very much wind. And you get to good insulation. Then this keeps changing. And when you're in the winter, which is the dry season in most places, because those winds that I told you that go over the Amazon, during the winter, they go to Central America. They actually transform and make Central America humid because of this wind from the Amazon. They are not going to the center of Brazil. But at this time is when you have all the winds at the coast. So you'll see at the right side of the map, that's where the red areas mean that you have more wind. And you see in the chart at the top, the right, this fluctuation, the months where most of the energy is provided by either, and then the months that most of the energy is provided by wind. And then also you have a nice, let's say, correlation intraday, which means that we get most of the winds. These are trade winds. They're quite steady, same direction, quite powerful. But they are stronger at night when in Brazil we don't have a sunlight. So this brings a lot of efficiency. Just very quickly, there's much information there, is the two things to keep in mind is that, first, you have a huge potential there. We have 800 gigawatts on shore, and another 700 offshore. And as you see, the capacity factor, which is the productivity of this turbine, is very high. In most places, you'll be around 30-35%. In Brazil, there are often, in several places, there are above 40 and often, this is average over the year. There are seasons where they got to 80% for weeks in a row. So that means that this becomes very cheap energy. The chart in the center will show you the prices for kilowatt hour. For those who are familiar with this number, this is very cheap. This is the range of three cents for kilowatt hour. And now that the currency, the value is even less. Now, the news at the right side is that, if you have, we have to think about that. We don't know what will be the temperature in the coming decades. So if you look at the temperature in coming decades, you see that actually, in some areas, the wind will blow even stronger, which means that it's quite resilient in relation to climate change. The same thing for the solar. You see at the map of the right, quite large area with very pretty good irradiation. It's not the best in the world. If you see in Chile, you get one thing that is pink, which means that even better insulation, there are places in Australia that are even better. But what you get in Brazil is pretty good. And then, of course, you have a lot of lot of territory. So we are still incipient, but there's a little calculation, very simple calculation at the right of the slide that shows that if you were to double the whole production of electricity in Brazil, which is necessary if you think about economic growth and also increasing electrification, these would use a relatively small area in Brazil. We have 800 million actors. You need less than one million actors to basically generate all the energy that you need. And again, at prices that are cheaper than hydro, much cheaper than thermal. And in Brazil, as I was saying, because it's a system that is integrated, most of the things, the distribution companies buy their energy through auctions. Everything is very transparent. Anybody can compute the cost. We have here something that is very important for everybody who has studied the renewable energy. Here we put the opportunity cost, the implicit cost of renewables that are not steady. So when you have this orange part, which is the infrastructure required, what they mean? It means it's all the additional, say, generation capacity that you need, the other contribution from other sources to ensure that you have a steady supply even at night. This is computed using the centralized dispatch system that you have in Brazil that incorporated in quite sophisticated models, all these correlations, the intraday seasonal correlations between the different sources. And so you get the real prices that the real cost that every source can actually has, including if you discount the subsidies, which in the case of solar and winds, or similar to what you have in the US, which means you can buy the, if you are, for instance, a distributed generation, you can buy whatever you have put without pay distribution fees. You have lower transmission rates even for far away projects and so on. So, but if you add these, you put back these subsidies, you still see how competitive these alternatives are. Now, I mentioned a few times the US and Brazil. I think one important thing comparing them is the fact of the kind of regulation. It's interesting, but it's a contrast between US and Brazil. And here it has an impact on the penetration of the different sources. In Brazil, electricity has a federal regulation. So like it said, it's a single market. In the US, it's much more complicated. And for instance, if you have people in Oregon, it's hard for them to sell electricity. It's very easy to sell coal, but it's not that easy to sell electricity to California or others because the regulation is a statewide. In Brazil, the natural guys on the other hand is a statewide and it's very complicated in addition of having a certain monopoly by Petrobras. In the US, you have this federal regulation that makes inter-state trade much easier. I also compare here ethanol and biodiesel, which are going to pass very quickly, but it's important maybe to look at this chart, sorry, the table that shows the proportion of ethanol in total transportation energy in Brazil. It's about 18%. Actually in 2019, it was pretty much 20% of everything that people used for trucks, cars, etc. came from ethanol. In addition to that, you have biodiesel. Now, I'm not going to talk too much about ethanol except in highlighting that the cost is extremely competitive. Even at oil with $40, it's not a problem. At 20, it's a little bit more challenging. And also, if you look at the emissions, it's really a fraction. You get a lot of that because in contrast with corn, actually use very little fossil fuels to get to the ethanol, one of the reasons that I mentioned is because you burn the baguettes. And also, it doesn't use that much space. So it's quite efficient and we plan to double the production in part by improving the productivity by actor and also expanding somewhat. You'll see the use is less than 1% and most of it is in the south. We don't plant sugarcane in the Amazon, but there is a lot of old pasture land that is degraded and you can transform that and actually create a lot of wealth. It's very interesting, even in a rich estate like Sao Paulo, when you moved from, you took some of these old pastures and you transform in ethanol for fuel, you got, you change from an agricultural commodity to an energy commodity is a completely different game. We are getting more and more biodiesel is an important part of the production of soybeans today is actually used to produce the biodiesel and actually the price, it depends again on diesel changes prices a lot, but say in 2016 it was 30, 40% and now it's, until recently it was less than this at $60, they basically break even and we are going to get B15, which means 15% of the diesel there. I mentioned here just as a reference bio kerosene because you have some areas again, degraded areas where you can have palm oil and this can be a very interesting response for the civil aviation. Of course, after COVID, we don't know how this sector will behave, but I think the pressure to continue to get low emissions will be very important. I have just five minutes, so it'll be very quick, but then something that's very important, because I know that many of you are interested in carbon capture. Now in Brazil, in addition to sun, in addition to wind, all of that, we do have a lot of oil and gas. They happen to be at 200 and 300 kilometers from the shore, but our companies have master days is a very deep water 2,000 meters, 6,000 feet, but we have a huge production, very good oil, and in most of these fields you have associated gas and nowadays most of these gas is re-injected. We can use some of this gas and the beauty is that we have technology now to do these actually without putting more carbon in atmosphere. How do you do that with the so-called gas to wire with carbon capture and sequestration? If you have questions, later I can talk more. Basically, you have the turbine next or on the platform and you do with the direct current, high-voltage current, you send these energy to the shore and you re-inject the carbon dioxide, not only the one that is mixed in the gas, and there is a lot mixed in the gas, so you save money not having to separate it because you need very little carbon dioxide in a pipeline, so you can re-inject this, which means that you can produce a lot of energy without emissions of CO2. This is a technology that is already known and which will become much cheaper now that Europe has decided to bat so much in offshore wind. You have, for instance, in the Netherlands and other places that they are taking a lot of energy from 200, 300 kilometers in the sea, so we can apply that and you get a lot of mileage, which is fossil fuel, but with a real, cheap, effective carbon capture. Okay, now just a word. I mentioned quickly the role of biofuel. There's one thing about biofuel. I mean, nature is great, but nature is not necessarily designed to produce fuels to move cars, and also we all know that the internal combustion engine is not very efficient. You have 30% efficiency at the best, which means that actually is not the most efficient way to go around using plants and then transforming fuel. It's very convenient because liquid fuels are very dense in energy, easy to handle, and so on. But we believe that sometime we're going to have the electrification. Here are some computations. What do you mean in terms of a kilometer of area that you'll be free of for additional agriculture or for additional restoration of forests or savannas, which you'll become a sink. I see these happening after 230, 235, but is there, and depending on how you're going to see batteries moving, these will be also very transformational. There's a little number there that shows how much an actual sugarcane, how many miles you'll give. You'll be 60,000 miles, 100 miles if you include electricity that is produced. But if you have an actor of solar panels, you can make a car to run 3 million miles. So it's the order magnitude of difference. Here is also calculation, something that's going on, which is buses. I know in California there's a lot of discussions. In Brazil it works very well. The big advantage, we have big cities. Electric bus have an immediate impact on pollution. They have not so much in emissions. It's affordable. There are many changes. Battery already is something that we need some finance, long-term finance, because you have to change a little bit the current equation of cities, but it's something that is worth more. Now, one of the last things to mention, you'd be this idea that in Brazil is a big country, but you don't have many rails. Very expensive to do rails. There's huge complicated problems of permits and so on. But you have a lot of roads. I'm not showing the map here. We could electrify the roads. And here the idea is, what it likes, not only the electrification, but it's how you can connect these with the digitalization of transportation. Because basically you can have trucks, not with batteries, which is very challenging, but taking this electricity. And they form a platoon. And they come in and out of the platoon every, I don't know, 20, 30 miles if they have to go to a city. And then they can move and work with either diesel or batteries, but for the short run, not for a thousand kilometers. That are some of the trips in Brazil or most of the trips. So this combination, I think, can be an excellent alternative. Very safe, very easy. I'm taking full advantage of digitalization for heavy hauling, very heavy freight. And this can happen. Of course, there's a question of what you do with all the drivers, but you find a way, a solution for that. You can have these in five years or maximum 10 years very easily and a very affordable price. Final thoughts here about the industry. Oh, industry. Industry, I don't think we have a solution for the next very short period. Because even if you move from, say, coal or say, petrol, coke, in terms of emission, to say natural gas, in terms of emission is not a great gain. There is some gain. But also the big emissions, if you've seen this in this table, they are related, not only at energy percent, but of the process itself. To make it still, you have to take oxygen out of the ore, the iron ore. And the way you do with coal is that you combine the carbon in the coal at high temperature and with the oxygen and then become CO2. Nothing we can do about that. The same thing with cement is also calcination. You take the limestone, you heat and it capture the oxygen. And here you go, you add CO2. So the only way to change this is with hydrogen, which I believe in maybe 10 years, you'll be feasible if you continue to have a reduction in the price of electricity, which in Brazil, by what I showed you, is perfectly feasible. We have an unbound amount of energy. And if you get to one cent, one dollar per kilo of hydrogen, whatever, I'm not going to discuss hydrogen here, this is feasible. And this will be the way that will lead us to real significant decarbonization of industry. So if you look again at the table that I very quickly showed at the beginning, what you see is that if you eliminate the deforestation and you do very much to the country, something that is already promised in our Paris Agreement, which is to start a reforestation, and you could have a 12 million actor, already you have 20 million actors in natural reforestation, regeneration of the forest that are better in the areas, you could have actually something very close to a balance. The big challenge, we remain what we do with livestock. And here, all the beds are open because we don't know how the demand for meat will behave in the next 15 years. But even if you continue to have a significant demand for meat, there are a number of technologies that again, I'm not going to discuss here, where you can reduce the emissions or compensate these emissions by increasing the ability of the soils to capture carbon. You're not being fined, but these will give us mileage for 20 or 30 years, so that by 2050, we, with the new technologies, can be very close to a net zero. And all of these will not usually require a lot of money. If you think in terms of a batman cost, actually, they are very low, which means that you have adequate planning, some credit, all of the things, usually you're going to reduce the cost of doing business, you'll be self-financed, although and with the advances that I point here, in the case of Brazil, in contrast with a lot of other countries, fortunately, we don't have a legacy industry. So the cost in terms of displacement, dislocation of people and of capital too, you'll not be that big. So that's the message. Brazil can have a plan. It's a plan that you do good. The first thing is to stop the forestations that you protect the water that you have in our country. And then you have all these steps of continuing to decrease the carbon footprint of transportation, continue the electrification at lower and lower costs, increase our smart greed, and then deal with some of the most complicated heavy industry, which are still important because they still need a lot of houses and they need a lot of steel in Brazil. And you have the resources you're not going to import if you are in the biggest iron ore mines in the world. So let's stop here. I know it was a little bit quick to cover so much material, but I hope you enjoy it. Thank you. Great. Thanks Joakim. That was a terrific tour de force. There was a lot of information. Fortunately, I'm collecting questions. Your last slide partially answered a lot of that. So that was convenient. So I'll start with some more narrow technical questions and then build up to some big picture ones because your talk had plenty of content in both directions. One question that people wondered about is how many emissions of greenhouse gas or equivalents come from bio materials that are trapped behind hydro facilities? Is that a large number in the grand scheme of things given the predominance of hydro electricity generation? How much material? Well, now it's basically stopped. We're not building hydro power anymore. This was really big in the 70s and the 60s. Up to the 90s, we still had some big project and the last one 10 years ago in Bellarmonte and so on. So yes, I don't know if the question of emissions is related to the concrete. There is some concrete, although some is also earth that you have in the dams. In most of the new construction, anything in the last 20 years doesn't have big reservoirs. So we didn't have to use forests or anything like this. This is very interesting because it means that all this correlation that I mentioned has to be managed in a smart way because of course, even if you don't have a reservoir, a dam can have fluctuation one day a week but you don't have for the whole season like we used to have until 20 years ago. Now the proportion of reservoirs and the overall production is small and anything built in the last 20 years doesn't have reservoirs. Great. Another question that you touched on several times was the trade-off between clearing land to grow sugarcane to make ethanol versus just leaving the forest in place. How does that turn out across the full range of areas in Brazil? Well, this is definitely a no-no. Again, most of the sugarcane, like you mentioned, is on old pastures including in São Paulo. There was a time there was a fight in São Paulo between coffee and pastures and so on and then they realized that the sugarcane and it's completely automated. Like I said, it changes completely the way to do. So we do have in most, also in other areas, is again and patterned. Soybean is still used virgini land, okay, is in the savannas, not in the Amazon and there is also a big, say, effort to avoid that. I didn't put in slide but we have mapped about 20 million actors of degraded land, land that has been used by cattle for the last 50 years, that are ready to be used for agriculture. And the truth is that the people from agriculture are really happy with this. I've been traveling in the countryside and everybody is very excited because they realize they can make much more money not clearing new land but just taking these pastures converting to fields. And because why? Because you can continue to have the cattle but in a much more intense way. So they produce three things. They produce two crops plus the cattle in the same place, in the same land. So again, as like I mentioned, the solutions I've been discussing here are solutions that increase the productivity of the economy are not a burden. One benchmark people were asking is deforestation currently decreasing the last five years or so in Brazil or flat or going the other way? It decreased significantly then it was flat for the last four years and then last year and increased it quite a lot and increased by 4,000 kilometers. We have to put in perspective, it's in one of the slides that show it if you compare with the areas burned even in Canada or even in the US. Actually the Amazon is not compared with seven. Now this year it will be 100,000 hectares which is a lot 100 million hectares. So last year there was a worsening and this is why the private sector in addition to society has been adamant that you cannot afford that because we don't want to make the forest fragile. My real concern is in a world that you have a real risk of two or even three degrees. We don't know how the forest you behave. They're big but they may be fragile. So we don't want to fragment it too much. Great. Another question regarding current trends. You did a lot of setting up a possible transition to electric vehicles but how much work has been done on the ground so far on vehicle electrification and has it largely focused on light duty passenger vehicles? You did mention in your technology projections going to more heavy duty vehicles as the cost of batteries cost and therefore weight related weight reductions in battery cost. Given the price of electrical cars I think we are starting with buses. Buses are urban buses or the prime target because like I said in terms of what you're going to save in emissions it's not like in the US where actually emissions of gasoline are much bigger than diesel. It's not like this in Brazil in part because we already have the ethanol but the bonus of the pollution is a major factor. So right now the focus is really in buses and I think we are going to in a way to serve a little bit on the technical advances in other countries before investing a lot of money into this. By the way I think on the differences you drew out between the US and Brazil in terms of resource-based regulations and so on we're quite eliminating at least I found them. So several people were intrigued by this gas to wire option you laid out and so one one one viewer wondered probably an investor or entrepreneur wondered what you can say about the costs now and in the future either per kilowatt hour or ton of CO2 avoided. What how far are they from being competitive already and is that gap likely to decrease in the near future? Well there have been a number of studies I can send you some to you and then distribute. They usually right now they're mostly simulation very technical with the standard say programs for that. You get energy I would say at 50% or 70% more than the the the energy of save of solar but if you compare the cost with a thermal that you have to send the gas to a pipeline then it's competitive and you have to think how you compute the carbon credit. Of course if you do have a huge carbon credit in Brazil they'll be very competitive except that they actually don't compete with other fossil fuels they compete with renewable so the exact benefit of a carbon tax or whatever in this case for the pricing in Brazil is not so evident but I think some of the studies show that we it's not something say three times the cost and as we refine some of the models for instance the cost of the platform the space that you use and also how you can one thing that I mentioned very very briefly that's particular to Brazil is that a lot of these fields they have a lot of associated CO2 with the gas which actually happens most of the turbines those who follow this know the turbine run with excess air so it means that you don't have to put pure methane to have a good combustion actually if you put more CO2 you get a better combustion than there because CO2 is inert so actually it works very well so if you if you use the CO2 to reject you actually increase the production of the fields so there you have an additional in this slide one typical example for a 500 megawatt turbine you could in some of the fields get six million barrels a year of additional production just by by doing this cycle. Great one last big question this maybe you could use your final slide to start on I apologize for being so big but one listener asked if you had a trillion dollars this is probably taking advantage of your money finance background if you personally had a trillion dollars to invest in building things to to accelerate the movement towards zero carbon and sustainability more generally how would you spend it? Okay it's a trillion dollar and especially the trillion probably a little bit fiscal I think that hydrogen can be a great bet especially if you link that not to internal combustion but with cell full cells I think it's great in addition because hydrogen can be also become a source of revenues for poor countries if you put the the production of green energy solar energy and you think all the tropical not necessarily Brazil but the Africa other places and you put the production of the electricity and then the transformation in hydrogen and you bring this hydrogen which is not too complicated or ammonia whatever the form to consumer areas you could get a very interesting trade system that would mean a lot of energy security because you could have many different suppliers in different places you'd be something that you would integrate a number of different countries of different levels of 40 us does need to import hydrogen but Europe would import hydrogen okay China can see half and half okay so this will be something that you bring people together it's great for global trade bring people together and the other thing is that hydrogen will help not only with energy but like I said with some other processes like it's still even cement so you get a double bonus in terms of what say the the the reduction in in emissions and I think the technology in terms of producing green hydrogen electrolyzers etc has moved so fast that you could be very quickly after you put the first say quantity of money you get scale and then you really get something that you give a big boost in thermal productivity let not forget just final thought oil is great but consumes a lot of capital and has a lot of risk some of these other things actually in terms of finance are not bad because a solar panel there's no risk in a solar panel in a in a distant area you can actually borrow money does have to put that much equity because low risk and ultimately a dollar per dollar especially after you scale up you may need less dollars for unit of energy especially when you integrate the whole system with the fuel cells etc thanks for that very big forward-looking idea that actually scooped up a lot of remaining questions I would want to add one more thing a corollary question you seem pretty optimistic or maybe a silver lining type thing with COVID helping with the transition in Brazil and elsewhere would you care to expand upon that a little bit just to leave us in these days of trials and tribulation with a more of a happy silver lining perspective on what we're going through look I think that COVID I showed how many different technologies you had so the fact that you're talking now here is a huge leap in terms of productivity and these productivity and you do have an effect many many industries some things are obvious some things you mean in the short run on employment perhaps but a lot of these things you mean more productivity and this is what makes the the the world richer you may have to use some policies to share this productivity you may want to use some policies to foster things that you also help to leverage this productivity so there is a challenge in terms of a policy coordination good ideas and so on but I think that you will help and I think even the price of oil showed how the world could be different and in terms for investors I think they're learning very quickly what was the prospect for for an oil price in 20 years they're seeing now and that changed mine with that Joaquin thank you very much we're counting on you to mow the ball forward now that you've got your trillion dollars and we hope to be able to see you again in person real soon thanks one last time thank you very kind great pleasure thank you