 And take a moment to hello you are back with the Vermont House Government Operations Committee. We are momentarily going to take up age 293 and hear a little more testimony, take another look at the language of the bill. Before we do that, Rep McCarthy was in other meetings earlier and missed our votes on age 366, which is technical corrections. 227, which is Winooski Charter and age 10, which is permitted candidate expenditures. So Hal, why don't you tell him what you're doing in what order? And we'll go ahead and record Mike's vote. I'll start with 366, the technical corrections bill. Okay, Rep McCarthy. Yes. Thank you. Next, we have the Winooski Charter Change Bill. Rep McCarthy. Yes. Thank you. And lastly, we have the permitted candidate expenditures age 10. Rep McCarthy. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Excellent. Thank you. So we are now coming back to age 293 and Mike Merwicky was doing some work and having some cafeteria table conversations. So Mike, can you help orient us to where we are and who we have, who we still need to hear from to move forward with this bill? Sure, thank you, Madam Chair. It's, for those who weren't on committee last year, I'll just go back a little bit, because we did start this before break, but we did a lot of the work last year. We heard from a number of students. We heard from departments. And I think we're not close to being ready to move this out, but I think we wanted to hear from, we have another student here today. We have Holly Morehouse who's gonna speak as well. And then we have Cheryl Wilcox who's with the Department of Mental Health. There were some concerns, I think, about moving the structure for this, for the Youth Council away from the administration. And we have answered those questions and it seems like there's approval all around for it to be moved, but those people can speak for themselves too. So I always like to hear from students first. So if we wanna start off with Delilah, that'll be fine with me. Great, welcome Delilah and thank you. Please introduce yourself to the committee and tell us a little bit about where you're from and what your thoughts are on this bill. Yeah, hi, so my name is Delilah Kramer. I use she, her pronouns. And I live in Underhill, Vermont, but I'm a student at South Burlington High School where I'm in a student-centered project-based program called Big Picture. And through that, I really discovered the power that my own voice has and the importance in having students advocate for themselves both in schools and on a bigger level like what's going on here. So thank you for having me. Great, and Delilah, were you a part of the groups of students who were working during the summer and fall to make some modifications to the recommendations in the bill? Yeah, I was part of that group and that was a really amazing experience getting to work with other youth from all over the state to do that. So yes, I was. Great, thank you. Well, hang tight because we most likely will have committee members who have more questions for you. So Cheryl Wilcox, would you share your thoughts with us on the bill? I would love to, thank you. Thanks for having all of us here. So just so you know, Holly and I, and Sarah Chesborough who works for the Department of Health, we chair the Youth Service Advisory Council which is named in the bill and having conversation last week an agreement with the Department of Health and here representing both of our departments and my interagency role. So what we're hoping is that there are a couple of places in the bill where it calls out creating this within the agency of administration. We would love if we could change that to the Vermont Department of Health. And then there are a couple other places where it speaks about logistics and support to the Youth Council and our Youth Service Advisory Council would be happy to provide that. So there are a couple of specific places that if there were just minor changes it would be really helpful and I'm happy to share that in more detail when it's appropriate. Great. Committee, any questions with respect to moving this from the agency of administration to the Department of Health? Sam LaFave. Thank you Madam Chair and thank you Cheryl for being here. Can we get a background a little bit of why? Sure, I'd be happy to. So this is after coordinating with the agency of administration. So just so you know there's been lots of conversations. I think because the Department of Health already has a very close relationship with Vermont After School and our departments co-chair the group with Holly it makes it much easier to administer through our Department of Health than flowing through the agency of administration. So it really is just a matter of how it can be more efficient and effective for us. Peter Anthony. I just thank you very much. My only concern has to do with the resource effect from moving from the agency of administration to health. Obviously health has got many, many demands on its resources. I just wanna be sure that you're pretty comfortable that what you will need in terms of support for both the board council and the students you will have available to you at health. Yeah, so it's a great question and we've talked about that with thinking of the fiscal allocation being put at Department of Health to pay the stipends. They have the resources to do that. We've checked that with several folks the Department of Health and then our youth service advisory council not only is it Holly, Sarah and I but we have about 15 other members and stakeholders. And so our group definitely has the resources and the willingness to support the youth council. Tanya B. Hovsky. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am curious, I would imagine that the youth council would weigh in on issues outside of the scope of health. And so I'm wondering how that impacts it being placed under the Department of Health. That's a great question. I think because Sarah at the Department of Health myself at mental health and then we also have folks not only from other agencies but also our secretary's office on the youth service advisory council. It's the full scope. So any issues that may touch any of our departments at AHS or the pieces that fall outside of our agency are things that we address in our youth service advisory council. So we would support the youth council the same way. Mark Higley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Cheryl, how would this affect? I know that it talks about in the bill that this would help the progress in reaching the population level outcomes which is again through our chief performance officer. What would that connection be with the health department? That's a great question. Because the secretary's office and also in my interagency role I have close connections with our performance director in the secretary's office, Drew Bressley. We would make sure that the data we're looking at and the youth service advisory council and what the youth council wants to put forward and focus on, we could make sure that all gets tied together. It's definitely an advantage of my role. It sits the department of mental health but being the interagency planning director is for the whole agency of human services. And it incorporates also working with our stakeholders outside of AHS. I guess if I could with a follow-up question, do you now evaluate any youth concerns or whatever in any parts of your provisions around this process? So I just want to make sure I'm understanding the question correctly. There is data we've looked at and that we're tracking within the youth service advisory council and I'm not sure if that's the piece or if it's something else we, before COVID hit, we were actually working through a number of different data points of things that are facing youth in Vermont. So we've gathered information from the youth risk behavior survey, our juvenile justice system and where there are intersections with the criminal justice system. So we definitely have been looking at all of those and we actually have attract and have had policy discussion. If it's something I'd be happy to follow up with to provide more, I'm not sure if that's answering your question. I guess so I'm trying to find it now and here but it specifically mentioned two sections of that statute involving youth and also inclusion of all Vermonters in that survey. So I'm just wondering that that should have been out in March of this year, I believe it's an annual report and I was just wondering again if the health department had any inclusive, provisions around youth and what they've been saying over the past year. I'm wondering if this is specific to the youth risk behavior survey and the really thorough data we get from that because that's a lot of youth data points and it actually won't be administered again until this fall because of COVID, it was supposed to be the spring. So there will be a delay. So 2019 is the most recent data we have from that focus but I'm looking through to see if there are other pieces mentioned here as well. So I think the piece around population level outcomes that is a piece that we're focused on in our youth service advisory council. It just was put on hold the past few months as we've all dealt with COVID but it is and that's something we would look to the youth council to help us make sure we're focusing on the right areas. Thank you. You're welcome. Tonya, your hand is up. Is that from before? That is a legacy hand. Okay. You must be getting tired. Very. All right. Any other questions from committee members for Cheryl? All right. Holly or Delilah, anything you wanna share with us regarding the bill that we have before us? I just would like to support the changes that AHS and Cheryl are presenting on that shift. We do work closely with the department of health and it is one of the strongest agencies around youth voice in our experience, actually at the maternal child health division in particular. And so that does feel is a comfortable place for a home for this. I also wanted to follow up last time we were here, representative Bajewski had asked about the draft application that the youth had put together and I did pull it off of Google and submit it as a PDF. So it's there in your record. It is a draft developed by the youth over the summer. And as I said last time, it has not yet gone through the process with the youth services advisory council and sort of that back and forth that would have to happen. But just to give you an idea of what they were looking for. Of course, thank you so much for letting me know that it's there. Sure. And then I think Delilah and I are here just to mainly answer any other questions as you work through the process. Super Mark Higley. Thank you. Again, I can't find that right off, but I did look at that application. I guess I need a little background as well as to the who the youth service advisory council is and looking at that application, who was it that would actually be reviewing those applications and choosing which individuals, which students would become a member and which wouldn't? Holly, I'm not sure if I'm happy to answer. And then if I miss pieces, please add. So the youth service advisory council, there are about 15 members. And a couple of weeks ago when we were here, it actually, I'm happy to rescind it, are the written testimony that Holly Sarah and I provided has a list of all of our members. So it's different stakeholders that are in the youth serving agencies. So places like spectrum, agency of education, our different departments have representation. We also, obviously Holly Vermont after school, we have Vermont Family Network and the Vermont Federation of Families for Children's Mental Health. So it's pretty wide ranging. And I would imagine, and Holly, you did a lot more work on this over the summer around who would review applications, but it would be a subset of that group. And Holly, I don't know if there are additional pieces you'd like to add. Yeah, thanks, Cheryl. So the reason that the youth service advisory council is tagged is in this idea that we want the youth council to succeed, right? So it's not about descending the youth out to sink or swim. And so the youth services advisory council is with this group of youth experts who are there to support but let the youth lead. I would actually like to pass to Delilah, I think to talk a little bit about how the youth envisioned the application process and the review and how youth voice could be incorporated along with the youth services advisory council. Yeah, so the goal was initially for the youth services advisory council to review applications and make the decision for the first batch, so to speak, of members of this council. And then since there are staggered terms in future years, members that are kind of graduating or leaving the council would help pick through those applications with the assistance of the adults from the youth services advisory council. So if I could Delilah, you said that you had kind of a summer, you were involved in a summer study group in regards to this, correct? Can I ask if there was any individuals on your summer study committee that had a concern for Vermont traditions? That being a concern as far as hunting and fishing and maybe logging and farming? Sure, and correct me if my answer doesn't line up correctly with your question. We were a pretty diverse group, there were I think around 50 of us. So I think that was certainly a part of certain members' identities. I personally have a small farm of my own and I really enjoyed and appreciate that. So I think, yes, certain youth are definitely interested in that and I think others probably aren't as much. Does that kind of answer the question? Yeah, thank you. Sam LaFave. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not sure who this question would, or maybe a couple of different answers to it. So the group that you guys did this summer, was that work paid? Yeah, it was and I can't remember the exact amount but I know I definitely enjoyed it. So yes, and I think Holly might know the exact amount. You did set it up with stipends for the youth for participating in in-person meetings. Well, they weren't in-person live meetings virtually. It was $30 a meeting and then there were options for youth who couldn't or didn't wanna participate in the meetings that could do work offline, reviewing documents and they were compensated as well for their time and giving input in different ways. Thank you. And a follow up is where did that money come from? It was a grant that we had of Ramon after school around Youth Voice. It was a private foundation money. Mike Berwicky. I just wanted to add that I believe and Holly can correct me that the Ramon after school had been providing the funding for the youth stipends because they had some money from a grant for that but in the future, this would come from the state budget and that's why after the bill comes goes out of our committee, it's gonna have to go visit appropriations but we have had discussions already over there as well. And one of the prime sponsors is representative Landfear who last year when this bill was up was on appropriation. So she has been doing a great job as a champion for this bill there. I did have a question for Delilah if we could. So Delilah, one of the pieces of this bill that I'm excited about is that there will be a conduit for students to have regular communication with legislators and the governor's office. Is that something that was talked about during the summer meetings? Yeah, that was actually talked a lot about because there's a lot of benefit both for youth to be able to communicate with those people but also to kind of have it go the other way because I think there's questions and answers on both sides and being able to have kind of that back and forth and that relationship can be really beneficial. So yes, it was talked about a lot and I think that was one of the things that people were actually most excited about. And without going into too much detail though, can you share a little bit more about some of the topics that came up that they felt the people in the administration and legislature should be focusing on that they might not be now? Yeah, I think we were again, a pretty big group with a lot of different perspectives. So of course this kind of varied person to person but youth mental health was a big one, climate change was a big one. Students, I think there was a lot of people saying, right now we are in schools, we're experiencing Vermont school system and that is definitely an area where youth can advocate more and should be heard more. You all set, Mike? Great, Tanya B. Hobsky. Thank you, Madam Chair. In the initial review of applications for that first board, I heard a lot of agencies named but I'm wondering if there's any youth voice because I heard that afterwards the graduating youth will review incoming youth but what about that first board placed? That came up as well and one of the thoughts that the youth group from the summer and fall recommended was that any members of that group who weren't applying or had aged out or whatever could work with WISAC and provide the youth perspective that way. I will say, I mean, actually hitting it throughout they were always like youth have to be involved in the selection process and involve the decision making processes. So that was the thought on how to cover that gap until we actually have a State Youth Council. Thank you. All right, any other questions for folks? Sam LaFave. Thank you. And I know I asked this question when we were hearing testimony earlier but looking at the application and I still, besides the unique experiences and what you feel needs to be changed I still don't see where we'd be making sure that we are having diversity when it comes to policy and going back to what Representative Higley said of making sure that Vermont traditions can still stay key to what we're talking about. So maybe Holly, because you were reviewing the applications how are we ensuring that this is not just gonna be this partisan along policy idea? There was actually a discussion that the youth had at one point and Delilah can help me remember, I hope, about whether like political party or something like that should be asked and they decided not to do it that way. They actually instead were using the, and once again, the application is not final but the idea of the questions that are posed there to get at what issues do you care about? What would you bring? What are you already advocating for thinking about is where they were trying to get that sort of glimpse into where someone is coming from and then to use that process through the selection process with the WISAC and the youth who were involved to then build that diversity there. So if there were, like I said, the application is not final but if there's a way or you have suggestions on like how to tweak that wording to also get at some of that, that the pieces that you're trying to ask about the perspectives or issues that you would bring forward, I'm sure the youth would welcome, looking at that and figuring out how to integrate it as well. Thank you, I just know for me, youth when a lot of the stuff had come up, so I'm 25, it wasn't that long ago that I was sitting in high school and I was not represented and that's what's kind of driven me to be where I am and that's why I'm here today to make sure the voices that aren't represented are. So I represent a rural population along with most Vermonters and I'm not sure how your setup will work but I would just like to make sure that you guys get some feedback from, there are some really great coalitions and people out there that would be more happy that they have no party affiliation, like the Avanaki tribes, Vermont Traditions Coalition and a couple of others that will come in and just give background to some of the things of like how did we get where we are today? What are we looking at and why things might be where they are? As I said, when I was in high school, I was the girl that got picked on because I would hunt and I was fish and I would come in from working, I didn't fit any sort of clique. So I really wanna make sure that a younger version of me gets her voice heard and represented in this, especially if it's gonna be something that's gonna be paid. That's a really big responsibility and I understand this is an advisory board but with all due respect, we're gonna take what you tell us and we're gonna listen to you and that's something really big to be put on your shoulders. And so I just wanna make sure that all the voices are being heard. So I appreciate your time today, thank you. I believe really strongly that we have the same goal about all voices. I'm thinking this group really focused on how would you do this? So they didn't focus in their discussion so much on what their issues were that they were coming with. It was more like how would we create a youth council? What would it look like? We did have a group that was a predecessor to this that was the Declaration of Youth Rights and that group did have young people from that were hunters and fishers along with new Americans and talking about gun rights in the same room and in different experiences. And I think that what our approach and the approach of WISAC is how we do that outreach, right? That's so, so important. If it's just a blanket thing that gets posted on some email and then youth with resources or connected families are the only ones who see it then it's not gonna work, right? So it's really that outreach that I firmly believe in which is really through the youth serving organizations and finding those unlikely voices and all the different voices and encouraging them to apply. I think that the other piece that the youth talked about a lot was that, yes, there's the youth council with the 28 young people but what's really important is that every young person sees this as a way to have a voice. So that's why in the bill some of the recommendations about yes, being able to have public meetings but also being able to, they talked about like doing regional outreach doing surveys, like finding other ways. So even if there's a young person who's maybe not quite ready to apply to be on this but once has a positive experience of having their voice heard through a channel and then maybe the next year they apply or we really need to think about a lot of different ways for a lot of different voices to be heard in different ways because not everybody's gonna speak up in the same way. And I think that that underlies like some of their recommendations and how they would do outreach and incorporate youth voice in different ways. I can appreciate that. And I think the development and gelling of this council will evolve over time. And so I appreciate understanding the work that has gone into it so far. Anyone else have questions or any of the folks who are here to testify? Do you have any other thoughts that are prompted by any of the questions that have been asked so far? Can I say one more thing that might, I was thinking too, in the bill the way it's written that has the Youth Council meeting with you again as a committee. So that might be also a good checkpoint to check in on some of these, who's on the group? How are they, what's the representation? How's it working with WISAC? And there's also language in the bill where the youth can also make recommendations for how to change how things are operating if we get into this and it needs to be modified and how often they meet or however, or how selection is done. So I do really appreciate Representative Lamfer and Mariki and all the co-sponsors for thinking about those aspects as well. So it's not a one and done, but it's a chance to sort of grow and learn through this process with some checkpoints built in. All right, Mark Higley. Thank you Madam Chair. I guess I do have one more question for Delilah. I asked this question of the other student last time. So 28 members seems like a rather large group to me. Again, how are you gonna keep it diverse as far as regionally goes? You know, again, it's pretty spread out, but how would you work that for the ruralness compared to the more urban areas? Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm gonna ask Holly to step in and correct me if I get this wrong, because we discussed so many solutions to this that I'm honestly not 100% sure which one made it into the bill. But I believe what we settled on was have it be somewhat proportional and there is I think a minimum amount of two from each county, two students from each county. And then there were a few extras to give to larger counties. Does that sound about right, Holly? That the recommendations from the youth where there would be at least two from each county plus they had talked about having like 30 to 40 members but when they worked with the co-sponsors that seemed too big. So right now in the bill there's 28. So the way it reads now is there's at least one from each county and then the others decided proportionally, but Delilah is absolutely right. They had thought of an even larger group. And like she said, they worked with 50 over the summer. So they were used to the larger number but it does have financial implications for the state. So they did shrink the number. So again, 14 won possibly from each county but then the other 14 would be proportional towards population in a sense. I think it was a mix of population but also that getting at that diversity piece. So if they talked about was a diversity of issues but also geography. So it would give some room to have a mix that let's say there's already someone from Newport and they actually live in Newport city and we need something that's more rural from that area or something, there'd be space to have a second one from that county or something. So that was the basic idea. So at least everybody, every county gets one and then the rest of them would be used to build up that diversity. Thank you. Amron, did you have something you wanted to add or ask given that we need you to be able to help us draft this in the end? I just wanted to add a little clarification about what is required in the bill versus there's a lot of discussion about what's going to happen during the application process. So in terms of what will be in the statute, the members, and I'm looking at subsection B on page four, the youth services advisory council shall appoint members from an applicant pool with a focus on prioritizing diversity and inclusion including characteristics such as county of residence, gender identity, racial identity, disabilities age and other characteristics identified by the applicants. There were prior versions of this bill that did require a certain number of people from counties and dividing up membership based on population. Those were over time taken out to give a bit more flexibility to the youth services advisory council to get kind of the, well, just flexibility in determining what's necessary, especially once the number of members was decreased from 30 to 40 to down to 28, which would be if you were to divide among the counties would be no more than two members from each county. So once that number went down, the flexibility was increased a bit for how those members are appointed. Thanks, Amron, Mark, are you back on this question again? I am. I'm gonna let you jump the line then. Hang on, Mike, we'll get to your question, go ahead, Mark. No, this is maybe just a suggestion and I'd like to run it by Delilah and others that are here now. So on page four, I believe it's no page five when it talks about the council establish an executive committee, committees as needed and the following standing committee. So you've got a youth voice committee, education committee, equity and anti-racism committee, climate change and youth mental health. Would you object to, again, a Vermont traditions committee? Again, the reason I say that is I just feel with what I see happening in Vermont and being from a very rural part of Vermont, the fear of a lot of my constituency is the loss of a lot of their rights that they have now for such things as trapping and hunting and firearm safety and shooting and so on. So it's just a question. I just put it out there and I would be happy to hear your thoughts on it. Sure. So I personally would not at all be object, sorry. Yeah, I personally would be supportive of that. However, the way that those committees were decided were by vote, we had a pretty long list of topics and then I think students picked like their top three or top five or something like that. And those were the ones that rose to the top. So again, that was decided by a whole group decision but I could also see that being another committee that gets added in later or combined with one of the others or something like that as we see how it goes. Thank you, Dela. Mike for Wiki. Thanks and I wanna thank the committee for this robust discussion to help move this along. Personally, I would be reluctant for the adults here to be too prescriptive on what we want the students to take up, especially since the sunset on this bill allows us to look at this again if we feel like it needs to be tweaked in some way and moved in another direction. But I really feel that if we want to hear youth voice, we need that to be pardoned upon unadulterated, that the adults not prescribe what they're gonna be talking about or what they wanna, but it needs to rise up organically from within the membership of the student body there. All right, Mark. Again, I understand that representative, but I think from a perspective of the constituency that I know, the young constituency, a lot of times they aren't as vocal as a lot of other folks in regards to their priorities. So I hate to just leave it, that's just one of my biggest concerns. I think representative LaFave mentioned it too, is how to keep this from being a partisan group. And I think that's key and maybe part of the way is to be inclusive right off with some things that a majority of them may not be concerned with, but it's a concern for some of my constituency. So I don't know how we address that, but that's a big concern for me. Thank you. Sam LaFave. Thank you, Madam Chair. And that's the point I was trying to make is my constituents here, that's their voices when I've met with them and talked with them. And they're not the first ones to speak up. And I am glad that there are youth that are here and willing and wanting to work and wanting to make a point, but I'm very scared that it's not going to be all voices and that's what the big message that I feel that they're trying to put across is. And so I would hope that we'd have some room not to have the adults, so forth dictate what the children are looking at. I don't think that's what we meant at all. We meant, you know, just to make sure that our voices of the rural were being represented just as much as others. So thank you. Peter Anthony. I just, going back to Emmerin's question about what's in the statute as opposed to what we're urging be taken up as the group evolves. I am perfectly, I'm comfortable with throwing out the idea since it's a tradition in Vermont to have a pretty strong sense and identification of place to say there's nothing wrong with starting out with a sort of baseline of at least one person from one representative, one council member from each county and then let the rest ride on the theory that geographic diversity at least makes a stab at what I think my colleagues are worried about. Although it's not a surety because obviously there are people who don't like trapping for instance, in Orange County too. I mean, you know, but it's a start. It's a baseline. So I just throw that out for my colleagues to chew on in answer to Emmerin's question. I wouldn't go beyond that because as my colleague, Representative Mariqui said, what's the point of having a youth council if they cannot formulate if you like how they wanna talk, who they wanna talk with and to whom they wanna talk to. All right, any other questions for the folks who are with us or reactions from Holly or Delilah or Cheryl? Go ahead, Holly. I wish I could bring all 50 youth here right now and I see Delilah like they, it was a very diverse group with all kinds of abilities and interests and backgrounds and family situations. And it was intentionally formed that way in a lot of the processes and discussion processes we were doing to try out and practice to see how to support youth and having some really hard conversations and taking votes and moving into breakouts and listening to each other and co-editing Google Docs and making room for all these different voices. And I so wish, I know we have Delilah here today who's amazing and we had Oona last time but every single one of them and part of it's just the timing and getting them here with classes and stuff. But part of the process of having a youth council and having them in the room they're even more careful than we are in a lot of ways around the voices and building in different ways for youth to be heard. And I hope that the youth that you are thinking about as this is established, you'll help us connect them right to the conversation to make sure their opinions and interests and I think that that's kind of a thing that all of us adults carry, right? We can set this up but then we have to support all the youth voices for connecting and being heard and learning how to speak up and join or banding together. And so I think it's a wonderful process for us as a state. There aren't a lot of states that have a state youth council to also work through and learn together and have that communication that Delilah talked about that was so valuable to them is being able to speak to all of you but also hearing back what you're concerned about and how they can do and they're gonna meet monthly. So it isn't something that's gonna meet four times a year they're gonna meet monthly in the bill. So there's a chance to kind of grapple with all of this and then come back with recommendations for the next iteration of how this is done. So I really hope you'll give them the chance to try it out and to do this with you and with the general assembly and with the governor's office. Delilah, go ahead. Yeah, I think I'd like to add that I also envision this as an opportunity for people whose voices aren't heard to have a chance to speak up and have a seat at the table and that I think a big part of that will be making sure that everybody has the opportunity to apply. And I think it'll be great for when that time comes for you all to be able to help spread it to youth especially the ones that you're concerned might not have a seat at the table to ensure that they know that they have that option too. So I think that might be a big part of getting those voices at the table is giving them that opportunity to speak up. All right, so committee I think what I'd like to do is make sure that we are giving Ameren some clear sense of where we want to go with this bill. So I guess I'd like you all to go ahead and call up the bill. And Ameren maybe if you can take us through it just section by section and we can have a little committee discussion about what changes we would like to see. Yes, does everyone have a copy of the bill in front of them? Yes, all right. So starting on I will skip down to the section creating the council which begins section two beginning at the bottom of page three. Section A is creating the council within the agency of administration to advise the governor and the general assembly on issues affecting young persons in Vermont. Shall I pause if I think there's going to be discussion or continue? Sorry about that. Go ahead, Mark. Yeah, if I could maybe a little more discussion on that. I just maybe need to know a little more information about why the agency of administration was considered first. I'd maybe even like to hear from Sue Zeller to find out. I found the section that I was talking about down below as far as what the two pieces would address. Let's see if I've got those. Page three, line 10. So yeah, so it's under statute, you know, with the Vermont's children and young people achieved their potential. And then number nine, Vermont has open, effective and inclusive government. I mean, I'd like to hear, I mean, this has been going on for a while, where they're getting their information now in regards to that. And if they've recommended any changes, because there's a process for that after each March when that annual report comes out, recommendations that go to, I believe it's submitted to the government accountability committee. So anyway, again, I'd just like to know a little bit more about that change from the administration to the health department before we make that change. So you would like to hear from Sue Zeller? I believe so because again, I'd like to know what, if anything they've done over the past few years in regards to those two questions that get answered through that results-based accountability. If there's been, where they get their information now in regards to that, to the youth. Okay. Could you do me a favor and type up a specific question or questions and provide those to Andrea and that way when we ask Sue to come in and join us, she'll have a sense of what we're trying to get from her because otherwise this might feel a little bit out of left field. Yep, exactly, yep. Great. Peter Anthony, did you have your hand up? I'm okay. I'm comfortable moving the word administration to the Department of Health following Mark's comment. That's all I was gonna say. Okay. All right. Back to the bell. All right. It's not moving. Sorry. I just have a quick question are, I'm sorry, I'm looking at speaker view, not gallery view where I'd be able to answer my own question. My question is, was the youth consulted on this move from the agency of administration to the Department of Health? I just, I don't personally have a feeling one way or the other, but I'm just curious. We didn't, may I? Is that okay? We didn't, so if we have, there's a, you have like a rapid response team that's a smaller group of the youth that are following the bill through the debate. So we've been doing large updates to everybody and then the rapid response team has been more on the where things get changed, you know, updated when it's quicker. I don't think, I will also say also during the summer process, that wasn't part of their discussions about where it would sit with the agency. We talked a lot more about the youth services advisory council being the support body than what it meant to be with the agency of administration versus agency of human services or department of health. So honestly, it just wasn't part of those discussions. Okay, thanks. Okay, now I think we're ready to go back to the bill. Okay, moving to subsection B on page four, membership. The council shall be composed of not more than 28 Vermont resident youths between 11 and 18 years of age. And the youth services advisory council shall appoint members from an applicant pool with a focus on prioritizing diversity and inclusion, including characteristics such as county of residents, gender identity, racial identity, disabilities age and other characteristics identified by the applicants. As I mentioned previously, this was the section that used to in a prior draft require a certain number of appointments from each county. So I will pause here in case there's direction from the committee on this issue. Mike Marwicky, go ahead. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm hoping I can digest and bring out a little bit of what I've heard from my fellow committee members. And my suggestion here is that we do prescribe membership to the degree that we wanna make sure there's somebody from every county. And so I'm gonna suggest that we add that we have at least that first 14 be one member from each county at least. I'm seeing a lot of head nodding around the table and some thumbs up, so great. All right, next section. All right, so subdivision one on page four, the agency of administration again here shall assist the youth services advisory council in notifying the public regarding the opportunity for youth to serve on the council. The youth services advisory council is the entity responsible for accepting applications and making appointments. The application process should emphasize the need for diverse qualified candidates and a successful candidate must demonstrate a commitment to inclusion and the youth of the state and the ability to work with others and listen to others. Subdivision two, the youth services advisory council shall appoint members for three-year staggered terms, striving to appoint members who represent a variety of youths in the state. The council shall consult with members of youth advocacy groups concerning initial appointments to establish the council and then consult with the council regarding appointments for all subsequent terms. I believe a prior version of this said consult with the council regarding or excuse me with outgoing members of the council. It sounds like there was that was mentioned during discussion today, perhaps by Holly. I don't know whether the committee would like to specify that that consultation will just be with outgoing members or whether the council as a whole should be consulted on the needs of council membership or something forward. Anybody want to weigh in on that specific question? Go ahead, Peter. Thanks very much, Madam Chair. I'm a firm believer in exit interviews in various contexts and well, I don't think putting it in the statute is useful. I just want the folks here to hear me say I really think asking some kind of critical questions to people whose term is up would be very useful. Thanks. Okay, Mark. Thank you. Another question I have, I don't know if it should be in this section or not is has there been any consideration in regards to members who fail to show up for a certain number of meetings? Again, if you're meeting once a month that's quite a commitment. And a commitment of three years is quite a commitment but if an individual misses eight out of the 12 month meetings, I would think that you would want to move on and maybe appoint somebody else regardless of whether they chose to remove themselves. And I'm wondering if there shouldn't be some sort of stipulation around that. Delilah or Holly, do you have thoughts on that? I can't remember if it was the previous bill last year and also in conversations with the youth, they talked about at one point maybe it was the service advisory council, I'm sorry, we've talked about this a lot but it was this idea that some youth could apply for a one year term and some for two and some for three to sort of get at that flexibility. You know, if it's let's say a senior who's gonna be going away or something and only can commit one year but really wants to participate. So that was, I don't see it in this language but that was in there at one point there wasn't anything that came up either over the summer or any of those conversations about what to do if youth don't show up. I think that we did have over the summer there were most people participated all the time. There were some that struggled to participate and we reached out and used local connections and youth workers to support them to try to figure out how best to help them be successful. And we approached it through sort of an asset base rather than knocking you out because you weren't there seeing it as a growth process. So that would just be a consideration I would just request because overall we want this to be a positive growth experience. So maybe the, I don't know if the language around the youth services advisory council supporting youth and being successful might help address that and then helping a young person who maybe isn't able to attend, you know, decide for themselves maybe this isn't the right time or something like that just a thought on how to set it up. And Delilah, I don't know if you have thoughts on the things that you've been involved in. No, we haven't. All right, Mike Broicke, are you on this specific question? You need to unmute. Put my hand down. But I think this is a good idea and I wonder if it's something that we could put in for the students to set the boundaries around this. And I just wanna make a little editorial comment though is that it's a kind of question I would have expected from Jim Harrison. So I'm just wondering if Mark is channeling Jim now and bringing... Possibly, possibly. Thank you. John Yenon. Thank you. I just wanna know again that the sun sets on February 1st, 2025. You know, if we find that members aren't showing up we will have an opportunity very easily to correct that or to tweak other things that don't appear to be working out. You know, so we will be revisiting this in the near future. And so it may be better on some of these issues to see what happens. And if there is a need for an amendment to this statute that we can take care of that in 2025. Thank you. Tonya Vihopsky. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would echo that I don't know that this kind of minutia on how people are appointed or removed belongs in the statute at this time. I think the youth have shown us that they are incredibly capable of coming together, working together and being responsible and creating those group norms should be left to them. And if it isn't working in a couple of years then we can readdress it. Pamela Faith. Thank you, Madam Chair. I have some follow up to that. You know, like this group here might not all be together in 2025. So I think it's important when we're here we're working together. We were called upon by our constituents to be working and looking at this. And there's a lot of money being spent between now and 2025. So that's something we need to take a look at. It's a responsibility for us and it's a responsibility for them. And I do feel that they're coming forward to do this but we also need to be doing good by why we are sent here. I mean, my second question is, and I apologize if it has been brought up, is so the age is between 11 and 18. And if an 18 year old goes on for three years that means they're 21 years old by the time they're done. Do they have to be still within the state even though they are a resident or could they be off to college in like California doing this? And then what happens when you have a 21 year old working with a 11 year old in a 14 year old by then. Have you guys looked at that of just the wide range you're getting, because you could potentially have 11 to 21 year old or do you have it at 15 years old is when you can apply for a three year limit? Or is that, have you looked at that? Anyone want to weigh in on how that's going to play out? Go ahead, Holly. I don't know exactly how it'll play out over three years but I will say that the group we had over the summer were 11 to 21 year olds. And I, but we had youth development professionals supporting them throughout the whole process. So in every breakout there was a facilitator not speaking for them, but just to help with that process. Sometimes we organized them by age and sometimes they were organized in other ways. So I key into, I think some of the scaffolding that is in the bill, like the youth services advisory council, like the opportunity to come back and look at, see how it's going, like the opportunity to make changes to the statute and to kind of support some of those pieces. The group did not debate if it's an 18 year old that's gone onto 21. I actually think, and has left the state, I actually think it would be the other young people, that period of life, they're changing so quickly and they're in developing a new interest and so forth that I actually, they move on to the next thing. A lot of cases, you know, they said they're not a, in general, right? Like that's just part of the stage of life that they're in. So I would actually hear on the other side of like, huh, can we get them to stay on for three years or can we get them, you know, like in that kind of place? And I think we need to have flexibility and sensitivity in that because someone who commits to this in ninth grade, you may be a very different person involved in very different things later on. So they may, you know, they'll need a way to gracefully step down if that's what happens and make room for someone else. And I think that that's part of the support that the youth services advisory council can bring to those processes. Excellent. All right. Let's see if we can move through the rest of the bill so that we can give Ameren an idea of what we'd like to see in the next draft. So what I'm hearing on that last question is that we're leaving this as is for the moment. I believe so. That's it too. This group changing its mind, which it's more than welcome to do. All right. So we left off on page five. The council shall elect a chair from among its members. Subdivision four, the council shall establish and then it lists the executive committee, ad hoc committees as needed, and then certain standing committees. There was some discussion about whether to add additional standing committees or whether to leave as is. I don't know that. I think we may have landed on leaving it as is, but I just want to confirm. Well, I guess I would remind folks that the process that the youth used in in putting forward the ideas of these standing committees seems to be very youth led. And I if we were to specify any anything, I certainly wouldn't want to overrule the work that they've already done in looking at their priorities. All right. Moving on to the bottom of page five, subsection C, powers and duties. This section outlines the council's duties in terms of meetings. The council may meet at least one time per month. It does. It does not require meeting at least one time per month, may hold up to four public hearings annually, may gather input from Vermont youth through surveys or polls, may evaluate the state's progress in reaching the population level outcomes and may recommend to the joint committee on government accountability, any revision to the population level indicators for those outcomes. Moving on to page six, the council shall, and this is required, provide advice to the governor and the general assembly on policy changes necessary to improve the lives of Vermont youths. And that includes the governor meeting annually with the council to hear and receive the council's advice and recommendations and the council annually reporting its advice and recommendations to the House and Senate committees on government operations and to any other standing committees it deems appropriate and the report may be in verbal form. Peter Anthony. Thanks very much, Madam Chair. Back to the May as opposed to the shalls. I was waiting to hear the list and apropos of our earlier discussion about attendance replacements, staggering terms. One year versus three, it occurs to me that one of the things that might want to be articulated just to suggest to the council is something which they may adopt rules to ensure orderly stability of the council and executing its mission or some sort of overarching enablement for them to run their own show internally without prescription, but it allows them the flexibility to deal with some of the issues we just brought up. But I feel strongly that we should resist being prescriptive about it other than enabling. Right. Other thoughts, Mary? Let's cruise through the last couple of sections. Subsection D on page six concerns the D and E concern the assistance and support provided to the council by the agency of administration as it's currently written and the youth services advisory council. The assistance provided by the agency of administration would include assisting with meeting, scheduling and logistical support, providing information technology support and providing any technology or technological devices necessary for the council to perform its duties. Go ahead, Mark. Well, again, if we're changing that to the health department, that all has to change as well, correct? Yes. Go ahead. Yes. And I will just say as a general consideration for revisions to this, if the committee wishes to change this over to the Department of Health, this will be moved out of chapter 45 where it is currently situated in this draft, which is the agency of administration and it will be moving over to, I believe, chapter 53 for the agency of human services. So there will be changes throughout this given that move. Subsection F on page seven, meeting attendance. Members of the council may attend council meetings by electronic or other means without physically being present. General Assembly finds that virtual meeting attendance is particularly expedient for council members but encourages council members to be physically present when possible. And then subsection G, compensation and reimbursement. Members of the council shall be entitled to per diem compensation and reimbursement of expenses as permitted under 32 VSA 1010 for not more than 16 meetings per calendar year. And for purposes of this subsection, meetings would include those up to four public hearings per year. And these payments would be made from monies appropriated to the agency of administration or the Department of Health, depending on where the committee places this council. Mark Higley. Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry about this, but again, 11 year old receiving per diem, any issues there? I mean, I don't know. I'm just asking the question. I can't think of any, but maybe others wanna weigh in on that. Okay, no, I'm asking the questions how that would work. Yeah, well, I know that when we're meeting in person, we have students who are 13 or 14 who are acting as legislative pages and they take home a salary. It's always fun to find out what they plan to do with the money that they earn when they're working with us and for us at the state house. Anybody else have a question? All right, so, Amron, we are gonna need to move this over to the health department at the request of the folks who are bringing forward this bill idea. I have two people who need to bolt really quickly to 430 meetings and I just wanted to say time out for just a moment so we can get them on their way. We did not take an official committee vote earlier on the amendments to the technical corrections bill. And so I'm gonna ask Hal to call the roll and this is to officially adopt the amendments that Jen Carby described to us when we were working on the technical corrections bill and that is the removal of those sections. And so Hal, when you're ready. I'll begin the roll. Gannon? Yes. Ricky? Yes. Leclerc? Yes. Cooper? Yes. Colston? Yes. Anthony? Yes. Bihovsky? Yes. Lefeb? Yes. Higley? Yes. McCarthy? Yes. Covenant Hansis? Yes. Thank you. 11-0-0. Great, thank you and my apologies for interrupting. So those of you who have 430 meetings we're just gonna finish up with the last little bit of committee discussion to give Amron some direction on bringing us back another draft so you guys can head out when you need to. Okay, so we have looked at all the sections. We've talked about moving it from the agency of administration to the Department of Health. Any other questions, comments, suggestions, ideas? Madam Chair, I don't know if this is appropriate to comment on. So I look to you to let me know if it's not. Should you all decide to move this from the agency of administration to the Department of Health, the piece around deploying technology? We wondered if our youth service advisory council could help mitigate any barriers but we can't deploy like laptops or phones to folks outside of our agency. So I just wanted to bring that up too and the drafting of this and decision-making. All right, committee discussion on that. All right, let's chew on that a little bit and we'll figure out whether there's anything we feel like we need to do in that respect. All right, does anyone else have something that they were hoping to see in the bill that is not yet in the bill? Peter Anthony. I just, I don't wanna be a dog with a bone who doesn't wanna let go. I just worry that maybe the existence of an executive committee covers the kind of enabling authority that I had spoken about very briefly that whatever internal policies, rules, behavior, appointment cycles need to happen, happen. I just worry that there may be some doubt as to whether or not what the extent of self-governance is and that's why I suggested some language about that but I don't have any investment in it. I just wanna be sure the group has all the marbles they need to load the situation towards a successful outcome for the group for the first several years before we revisited at sunset time. I can certainly appreciate that and I would guess that they will come back and tell us if they don't. Since that is the, I think the part of the point of the council is that they will report back to us and if one of the things they report is that they need a change to their own statute, we would certainly be happy to receive that. All right, so I'm not seeing any more hands. Amron, you've got a sense of what tweaks we wanna make to the bill. I have two items that seemed definitive. One prescribing that the council needs to appoint at least one member per county and the shift over to the health department, understanding that the committee may hear more testimony on that. Yes, that's all for now. All right, thank you Delilah for being with us today. We appreciate your work in collaborating with some of your peers to put some really good language forward and we look forward to hearing all of the great things that this council does if we're able to get this bill through, through the legislative process. And thank you again, Holly and Cheryl for helping guide that conversation and for being here to advocate for the bill. Thank you. All right, that is it for our committee agenda for the day folks. We are back in committee tomorrow morning and so we can sign off.