 which I will call to order at 535. The first item on the agenda is the agenda. So could I have a motion on that? Go ahead. Councillor Paul moves the agenda. So moved. Are there any changes? I don't think so. Okay. I'll move the agendas as presented. I'll second it. Seconded by Commissioner Gommash. Any discussion? All those in favour, please say aye. Any opposed? That passes unanimously. I'm sorry I'm a little distracted because I'm also trying to promote others as they come on. The next item on our agenda is the minutes from our April 8th meeting. Can I have a motion on the minutes? I wasn't here last time so I can't make that motion. Sorry. I moved to approve the minutes as listed. Moved by Commissioner Hart. Seconded by Commissioner Seguino. Any discussion? All those in favour, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed? Abstaining. And we've got three abstentions. Commissioner Gommash, Karen and Jane. And then the next item on our agenda is the public forum. So anybody's allowed to speak at this time if there's, if you want to, we also allow public forum after kind of each item of our agenda. And so we've got public forum now. Talitha's about to give a presentation. So happy to, there will also be a public forum after the presentation. So if you want to give comment specifically on Talitha's presentation, which I believe will include a quick overview, maybe of where we are in the process. And then the survey, which is on board ducks, that they plan on starting to administer next week. And so with that said, yes, anyone can speak at this time. And folks want to raise their hand. Also, since we have new members, I just want to quickly say, we run this committee fairly informally. So we tend to use first names. So if that isn't okay with anyone, feel free to just note that and ask if you have your last name used. And Luke, I will unmute you and anybody else who wants to talk if you can raise your hand. I don't see Luke anymore, actually. Okay. Anybody else who wants to speak in the public forum, then Talitha, we will hand it off to you. Good evening there. Good afternoon here. And this is Kara Sninn with Talitha Consult. Good to see you. I like waving hands. I wave my hands a lot. Hey, so we had a great town hall for a second time in a row. The first one was on March 30. And the second one was just on April 27, Tuesday. And it's so encouraging to have multiple junk committee members showing up and supporting that effort. And, you know, you all, almost all of you kept quiet to encourage people to speak. But I know that you were actively listening. So for that, we are very grateful. I also want to say thank you for REIB, for hosting it, inviting multiple interpreters. Yes, deserving of an applaud there. We had interpreter from Mai Mai languages, Mai Mai Hirundi, Swahili, Somali, and then the person who spoke Lingala can also speak French. And so they were just there to support language access wherever necessary. And that was very intentional in that REIB in partnership with other departments want to make sure that the onus is on us, not on the people to come and tell us we need an interpreter, but that we intentionally made an investment, we meaning the city under the leadership of Skyler, offer interpretation so that people if they show up, they don't have to feel like they have to ask. And with that, we also launched a quick polling of who showed up. And I'm just going to save time if you didn't show up to the town hall. There is a recording already. So please go and take a look at it for the first 10 minutes. It will show you who showed up. I think 90% was residents and the top three were 30 to 40 year residents to 20 to 30 and like 5 to 10. Those are the top three type of residents who showed up and mostly our folks who spoke one language at home, primarily English. With that, I want to have Karima to say something what happened after the town hall because it's not just one and done. We left the public with an email for them to email us. So Karima can just give a quick overview of what we've been hearing and seeing. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you all again for all the support and for enabling us to have a really successful town hall. We've been receiving emails from community members and some of them have requested that we keep some of their comments confidential, but others have asked that the comments also be put on the record. So Zariah and would it be Shareen that I would share those with? I can forward those comments, but their comments that have been really, I think they've been telling as far as what some of the community concerns are. And so we'd like to make sure we share those. We're going to continue to leave that email open if anyone else wants to share. So we're looking forward to hearing more from the community, but they have been very, very open about their thoughts and their ideas and their visions for a healthier and safer city. So we're really pleased about that. Right. And just quick feedback on that. I think there's on board docs, there's also executive content. I don't know if that would be an appropriate way to share some of the some of the feedback. I don't know what that means, but what do you mean? So if you can send it to Chanel, she should be able to put there's public content for each agenda item, and then there's executive content that only the joint committee can use. So that's kind of the way that we handle sensitive material. So when we forward the document, we should say Chanel, this is for executive content. Correct. Excellent. Okay. With that, again, our charge is to design and implement multiple mechanism in which people can engage and participate with public input, specifically to public safety. So the next process in this initiative, equitable and inclusive participation is public survey. We have partnered with a firm up and down. They are headquartered in Berkeley, but they're all over the West Coast. It's called MIG Consulting Services. And this is one of the three projects in which Talibah and MIG collaborate together. And we have one of their senior planners today, who is also a community engagement, traditional form, aka paper form, and then digital form, online engagement specialist with us, Ryan Mattau. And what this is the format in which we're going to do, okay? So Ryan is based in Oregon. Besides all the professional credential, Ryan is a pretty cool father, as you may see in his little profile picture, I was just learning more about Ryan as well. So this is the format. We're going to show you what the public survey is going to look online, okay? It's very geographic-based survey. So when you are looking at the mock-up, I do not want you to get into content analysis, okay? Just slap yourself if you're trying to evaluate the content. I just want you to look at the optics. And I want you to think about user interface. Okay, what if I interface this way? So the first thing is the mock-up, and then you just comment on the user interface. With that, Counselor Hightower, can you give permission for Ryan to share his screen? You're muted. Yes, give me one second. And Chanel, sorry, I just got an email from a constituent saying that, called Daniel Feld, who said they were removed accidentally from the meeting, and if there's some way to override that. I don't know that there is, and I don't know how that would have happened, but I don't know if you can maybe work on that while we're doing that. Yes, I can see what I can do. That was my mistake. Okay. And then, sorry, you want me to make who able to screen share? Ryan? Ryan, yes. And so that's the first portion, just the optics user interface. After looking at it, which we're not going to dwell on for a long time, okay, folks? After that, we will look at the paper survey, where we will give plenty of time for you to give us feedback. However, this is not one and done. We also want you to sleep over it, and if you have more thoughts, you can email me or Karima, okay? So with that, I will hand it over to Ryan. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, so I'm still waiting. Yeah, Chanel, I don't think I have the ability to give Ryan the ability to share. Sorry to put another thing on you, but is that something you could enable? Yes, should I make him co-host? I think that'll work. Thank you. Okay, let's see. There we go. That looks good. Thank you. Appreciate the time to talk with you a little bit today. We've done, as Kara said, a quick mock-up using some content from early drafts of this survey, but not intended to be complete. What we're looking at here is just a landing for a demo of this platform, and really the opportunity to introduce people, obviously, with the product or the project, starting off with some information about who is responding. This is a conscious choice around making sure because who is responding is very important to us. We want to make sure that those demographic questions get put right up front. And one of the options in this, and one of the features that this platform particularly allows us to do is to give some geographic aspects to the response, really letting people kind of self-locate. And so this is a way that we can get beyond asking simple and sometimes not very descriptive questions like, what is your zip code? I understand there aren't just a whole lot of zip codes to draw from, and it doesn't give us a great differentiation. One of the ways that this platform can give us a better sense of where people are responding from is the basic interaction, which many of you will be familiar with from other web tools, is to be able to drop a pin directly on the map. The great part about that is that then we can harness those locations to filter out or to sort through results, whether it be by ward, whether it be by geographic area, whether it be by one side or another of a geographic barrier. We would then have a series of additional demographic questions that we have not completely fleshed out, but they would appear similarly to this self-identifying racial and ethnic identity here. We like to create those in obviously as open a format as possible to allow people to identify the way that they prefer to. And just to show kind of flexibility and alternatives, they can also use an existing map. The ward map was provided by the city with this intention, I think, to understand how our results spreading across the wards. This could be used in the same way with that home pin, but we can use the geographic kind of underlying GIS map the same way. So there's options both ways in that way. An important part of the questions as they're forming right now is really to understand kind of the degree to which people agree or feel safe or feel in agreement with a response to a question. There's a few different ways that we can also ask that. And in my experience, people are fairly familiar obviously with the fill-in-the-bubble, you get one choice kind of option. When we have a series of these questions, we have found actually that a slider presentation like this works very easily. It is also very friendly. One of the things that we focus on with this platform particularly and in all things online these days is that we need to be thinking that people are primarily accessing the internet from a mobile device and they are not using a giant screen. So using the space we have very wisely. It's one of the reasons why what you're seeing here is constrained horizontally across the screen is so that we aren't creating a survey that works really well on a great big screen and doesn't shrink down well. We're really starting from that mobile first perspective. If you're going to have a string of questions using this vertical space requires a lot of scrolling whereas a slider can present that same information in a very finger friendly and variable format. We can also incorporate that geographic referencing into other questions and we wanted to raise that as a possibility because that is one of the unique things that asking questions online allows us to do. We can ask those questions geographically in general and get the answer for me as a resident. We already know where they live but if there are answers that have a specific where implied or intentionally added to them we can continue to use that pin functionality with the ability to ask really any follow-up question afterwards that would be tied to that location. So if we're asking about challenges, if we're asking about improvements that people could see on the ground in that community we can ask for more detail whether that be in an open-ended form or in a multiple choice or slider or any other presentation of question kind of after these pins are placed. One of the great things about that is the open-endedness of it much like being able to write in whatever you want to. These pins can be you know places many of them as you like to really indicate your experience on the ground as you as you move through that that expertise. So as we said this is not the complete survey. I wanted to just give a quick overview really highlighting the alternative kind of presentations of material and introducing the possibility of that geographic coding of responses in a very user-friendly way so that we can then discuss content which I'll hand over to Karima a little bit right now to really get into what specifically we need to ask and we can be thinking about whether those do have that where component or not. There's no reason we have to go that route although I would recommend it for the where-do-you-live portion for the reasons we were talking about earlier. So I'm going to leave it at that but I'm going to keep some space open here for questions on that interface particularly and it looks like Randall if you have I don't mean to take over for you on the facilitation piece either but I'm happy to field your question. Yeah thanks this is just a quick question about the UI so with with sliders as opposed to bubbles or checkboxes right the default is going to be there's going to be something which is marked as the default so if an respondent doesn't want to indicate an answer it will already set as for example three in the middle if it's a micro scale whatever it is right. Do you have a way with the slider interface of indicating clearly between somebody who's who's intentionally marking a response as for example three versus somebody who's just not trying to respond to that question at all? Yeah it's a really good question the system actually does not record an answer until that is clicked so it is not a it is not a five in this case it is the zero to ten scale it is not a five until it is clicked and moved to that or just clicked as a five so without an affirmative movement there's no answer recorded so those blanks then are are a non-answer. Thank you. Yeah it's it's uh and the reason that question is particularly important is that we don't want to water down our responses overall with a whole bunch of middling responses because people flipped through and didn't answer that particular question so thank you for that. The only thing I would add is um and if we're just talking about look um is I know that when I start surveys and I don't know how long they're gonna take it's always nice to have that. I think that's a very good point um we have a couple of ways that we can indicate that uh both kind of passively and more actively in the text uh and as we get to uh how long the survey actually is I think we can we can definitely get both a time or a number of questions kind of indication right up front I think that's a really good a really good note thank you. Just to uh just one last point before we leave this entirely I just wanted to bring up a little bit about um the geographic side of this and results just to show you um one of the reasons why we ask the question uh where do you live as a point is that it gives us an opportunity this is a a response set from Garden Grove in California um looking at uh where people have responded from during the process after the process really being able to understand that we did in fact hear from the entire community uh the one other result-based outcome that is really powerful is when you have a question that is tied to a location you can use the the kind of geo processing tools essentially to uh to see where there are concentrations where there are places that we should spend specific attention on um looking at those those points piling up in the overall data set and so the the platform itself makes this very easy and we can also export these results out for other analysis so just uh just wanted to offer that up um because this is a platform we use a lot it's it's there's a few tricks that it it does quite well and uh with that I think maybe Karima do you want to pick up um just on content from there and we can always come back to this if necessary but I'm going to kill my screen share here so that we can all see each other a little bit better and one more point that maybe straddles between what we just did in content which is I think in a previous version of this I saw that the some of the more forgetting the name for it but like who you are questions were at the end which I think is generally better just because if you're start a survey and the first 12 questions are about who are you it I think more people are likely to click out of it so it's it's a judgment call regardless uh and I I think that we can we can certainly discuss that I would uh I have I have my own opinions about that but I would I would defer that uh certainly to Karima as we're all discussing that um uh kind of through the content piece here and would love to hear I'm not an expert on this so I would definitely not would love to hear your opinions but I have a quick quick question um in terms of like people taking the survey more than once um is that one going to be kind of allowed and then also if it's not do we have anything in place to kind of keep that from happening in terms of like tracking the IPC or whatever this platform does not track IP uh and and that's that's a conscious decision it's um actually it's a European based um uh the European developed program which is governed under the GDPR which is the very stringent privacy policies for the European Union so it's not tracking IP addresses um the it does have some persistence built into it um as for the technically minded it as a cookie based persistence so if you are on the same browser you will see your result it will just be you will be additive essentially to your previous response um and generally speaking as an input tool we use these platforms uh in a way that we don't want to be overly concerned with people um coming back and adding to their response or coming back and responding again it's really more of a um it's it's not about verifying that we have you know 300 individual responses as much as we have these various uh points of input so okay great thank you Brian I do have a question uh can we do award limit we don't want a novel in the oh yes uh sorry so yes all the open-ended questions can um be limited to whatever character limit you would like uh as you as you go through so yes that is definitely an option so with that um may I please have permission to share my screen you should be able to now okay thank you so hopefully everyone um with the joint committee has had a chance to look over the this is the of course paper version of the survey and just to give you a little background on it um so some of those questions um have come from some of our um sources that we've relied on as part of this work which is the the Department of Justice we've also um um developed some of the questions from governing from racial um governing alliance on racial equity um we've talked through to our Talitha public safety and law enforcement experts we've worked with REIB and um in addition to that a lot of the content was gleaned from the conversations we've had with community members through the stakeholder workshop the MPA meetings and also the town halls so um that being said I want to just um open it up for any recommendations or feedback um that you all have and we can start we can start um I don't think the respondent portion is as relevant and cares feel free to feel free to jump in but I do think that what we really want to hear from unless there is anything glaring with the respondent info is the specific questions related to public safety and health so so the survey is split into three buckets right three themes responded info public safety needs and vision and then the third one is specific to Burlington police department is that correct and also the vision the community vision for a safer and healthier Burlington thank you so I'm just going to move back up to the first one which is um public safety needs and visions if um the committee wants to take a moment to start providing feedback and comments and sorry just to before we before we do commissioner feedback and comments for the public this is on board docs um and if anybody from the public has feedback and comments um I will kind of leave it open for now so you can raise your hand if you do have um this is theoretically public forum but you can also jump in later if you are still kind of looking at it as well and with that I'll hand it over to Randall and then Cherine thank you so I will go through uh the comments that I had marked for myself sequentially so I'll start with question nine which is on page three question nine reads are you the first generation I think that question is ambiguous so I'd recommend clarifying that I will go on to in public safety question three that's on page four uh one of your greatest concerns in your community when it comes to public safety so first I mean I assume that it will allow for multiple responses for that question it doesn't indicate that clearly already but it's not clear to me that all of those responses are going to be clear to the respondents so um so for example exactly what is meant by disturbing the peace uh there's another option for noise and public intoxication so uh you want to think to clarify what disturbing the peace means in this context uh likewise not clear whether public health services as it stated will be clear to the respondent so I'm going to clarify that um violent crime enforcement can be ambiguous between enforcement of violent crime and a violent way of enforcing crime so I'd recommend that that be clarified as well uh the next comment is on same section number six on page five uh six and seven so six is who else would you trust to assist you in an emergency uh the fact that emergency is left vague there means that I think it's it's not a particularly useful question yet there are a wide range of emergencies and one might trust each of these entities in an emergency depending on on the the nature of scope of the emergency so I think without having some more clarification on that it's a bit of an unclear question uh likewise for question seven who else do you feel plays an important role in keeping your community safe um it seems to me as though and it doesn't clarify whether or not one or more answers are permitted for that question but um all you know it seems like answer very well could be all of the above to varying degrees so it's not clear kind of what you'd be looking for or how to how a respond would be asked to respond to that um question nine and in the Burlington Police Department section this is on page six in the uh in the past two years prior to COVID-19 have you had a personal interaction with BPD so I'm not sure first why prior to COVID-19 is included in that question um uh and then second uh for called non-emergency uh it's not clear to me whether that's referring to called a non-emergency number to reach for example the police department like the police department's direct number uh since the previous question is called 911 to report a crime um so it's not to have those two questions called 911 to report a crime and called nine emergency how those are supposed to relate to one another so that's ambiguous to me um um those are all the comments that I have have been clarifying of those if you need it thank you Shireen and then Karen yeah so I want to thank Randall because he covered the vast majority so really I think from the outset for me my comment is it starts off with what is your ward and I think the one of the fundamental questions for the target audience is this expanding to business owners uh workers who come into Burlington NGO staff because we may want to say where do you work or live or something like that and and everything else I would have said was covered by Randall so that's my comment Karen and then Stephanie um okay thanks Soraya um so uh my appreciation also to Randall who covered about three of the three of the issues that I had I had thought of um particularly the one about are you a first generation I think we need to definitely clarify what what exactly that means um I assume that you're meeting are you a first generation person living in Burlington but if we're sending this out to business owners I'm not sure or business or people who come to Burlington um then perhaps we need another approach um the question that I had um I think it's number question number eight where it says um it's question of how long you've lived here um so again if you're if it's only targeted to people that are living in Burlington um they're probably if it isn't and there should be something that says I don't live in Burlington um but come here for work or some other category and then the other is that um I would say that uh that 10 to 20 years and that we should do 20 or more um I do think it's important for those people who have lived here a very long time particularly who are older that that would be an important point um and then the other question I had was um number seven where it says how many languages are spoken at your home the answers are not how many the answers are um more related to what languages more than how many because English is one um and I would question whether or not that should perhaps be rewarded um it seems a little bit um seems a little bit awkward um and then the the other questions that you had that Randall had noted about uh BPD and I don't I didn't write down the numbers but they're on the page that's Burlington police um it was something about pre-covid and the questions were um right there the questions were in the past two years and then it says prior to COVID so it would just seem as though maybe it's better to say in the past in you know during 2018 and 19 prior to COVID-19 um I think if we're going to say past two years then it's really not the past two years and we probably should just be a little more specific that was all I had thank you thank you Stephanie and then Jabu thanks uh my questions are whittled down now as well but I want to refer to question 10 uh have you had a personal interaction with BPD and actually the one prior to that I'm not sure the reasoning for limiting the assessment to the past two years uh I think the past five years quite frankly is better um and more comprehensive you know will capture more people's experiences and that relates to number 10 which is that people have probably some people have had more than one interaction with the police and I think you may want to give people the opportunity to uh you know and indicate to them that they can talk about more than one and maybe also the the year in which that uh that interaction occurred thanks thank you Jabu and then we'll hop over to Perry uh so yeah Randall Purish hit most of the things but I just wanted to touch back on to yeah page three question nine the new the new American thing I haven't kind of hit me personally just because I'm first generation on my mom's side and I believe ninth or tenth generation on my dad's side so I mean I always check off the first generation box but I'd like to expand it a bit more and I went for page six question nine but that just was um Stephanie Ordea um talked about that one sorry may I ask a follow up question to Commissioner Gamache's clarifying question absolutely so so when you indicated just what uh Commissioner Sanguino said what do you mean I want to make sure we um mainly the whole um in the past two years prior to COVID I thought two years was a bit limiting um I thought it should be expanded I mean the number is arbitrary but I think two is just a little short too short um so five would be five would be better number I think it's a better number yes okay and did you also want to um a group of what you call it what about the point that Commissioner Sanguino make about more than one interaction is that also what you're speaking to or just the number of years I'll speak to just the number of the years personally thank you great Perry you are permitted to speak and then I'll put myself in the stack thanks um I'm gonna keep my comments a little bit briefer um and I can um you know always follow up offline as well um I think the um the interest around making this um like catering to a mobile platform is a little bit um of a concern for me I would be curious to hear um more about like the sort of in terms of like making sure that the sample size and like the respondents are um like being sort of just like proportionately um engaged if that makes sense from like across the various demographics I do know that like for example smart smartphone ownership like is just like relatively higher among like college educated folks versus folks who like might not have a high school degree or have lower you know less or access to higher levels of education and I think that um when I think about folks who are like primarily marginalized by police violence it's not like college educated whites um and so I do just want to think about like when we're capturing this data for talking about folks that are houseless folks who are in mental health crisis um you know lower income folks you know I just I want to think about like who has necessarily accesses and I and I'm sure that we will like have this this survey will be available in like multiple modes and I'm not necessarily sure like smartphone versus like they have a folks have access to like a widescreen computer but it just was something that like when you said like this is mobile accessible I was like who probably has mobile phones and it's like the majority people the majority people are like college educated white folks like I I'm pretty sure that's just like I I've been done like a deep dive on the statistics but like a cursory dive like that seems to be the case so that was something that I just thought was interesting and especially because I think we don't want to just capture data from folks who are not going to be marginalized by peace violence um that we want to explicitly make sure we're capturing information um and and response um for folks who do experience police violence statistically and have experienced it in the city um so that was something that I just thought of really quickly um I think um on page hold on let me look at what page this is on I'm sorry I'm speaking really fast page four at the top of page four is public safety employees work to keep the brilliant community safe by addressing and preventing crime searching for lost and missing persons and responding to disasters and emergencies I read public safety employees as police officers I'm not sure if that's what was intended um I don't think we should start out a survey question by saying um police officers keep the brilliant community safe by doing x y and z because there are many people who do not have experiences with police officers that they that are of safety um and they don't they don't actually experience safety with police officers so I'm not sure who like what was intended by saying public safety employees I think that's kind of broad but like I certainly read that partially as as police officers and I'm not sure if that was the intention but I don't think um I think it's a bit leading um and problematic in terms of um getting um uh I don't I don't know like the technicals the technical data term but like whatever untampered or something data I don't know other people who do statistics and data probably know way more than I do um I do want to also just quickly flag um on page six um Randall Commissioner Hart Hart also brought up the question number eight on page six in the past two years how often do you see VPD officers working together with community members to solve problems um again I think this also has to me concerning like sort of like leading phrasing or like like not great phrasing because um I've seen um VPD officers work a bunch of times with folks in the community and my perception of them is that they're not solving problems and so I would probably say never um that is just personally how I would respond to this as as a respondent um and then it asked me to skip a bunch of questions and I don't know if that's really what we want and I I'd have to look you know talk for further with someone about like how this survey is being conducted and what kind of responses we're looking for but like I don't think I should be like skipping the next two questions because um I would answer I would be as a respondent I would answer that little or never because of my perception of how um when I see police officers in the city working with folks in the public I have felt that they have not created more safety um and but I've witnessed them interacting with folks a bunch so um I think there were plenty of other comments around that like um Commissioner Subino's um concerns about just limiting it to two years I think that's a great point um and I think Commissioner Herb's point on that question was also fantastic as well um as well as the rest of the feedback being brought up by commissioners thank you thank you and just for clarification on number eight so where it says skip to the question the next question it's really going to another question where is the deeper dive um for the respondent to be able to provide details on if they said little or never it's not skipping any questions so we'll we'll make sure that we fix that great um I see Stephanie and Ryan have their hand up before we're going to second round I'll just quickly give my comments um and I'm sorry if I was also trying to monitor hands I don't know if I'm repeating what some other folks said but like I said I would move the personal information to the end especially if there's any way of like keeping responsive somebody doesn't finish the survey all the way I think it's much more valuable to get people's answers than to find out who they are um then questions two and four and I think there's another one but I'm not I think yet it might actually be the one you just were talking about Karima we're only asking for detail for people who feel unsafe I mean I don't know if that's just to limit the amount of things that are to analyze in which case I will back off but I think it's also good to hear why people do feel safe if that's not too much additional work um yeah question three I didn't know if there was a chance that we could have that being open question with a word limit that somehow also automatically gets analyzed question five just seemed odd to me um I'm not sure what you're asking and I forget what that is oh yeah I'm sorry I was writing yeah question five is if you call nine on one how likely are you to be satisfied by the response it may just be that the wording is weird but I would I didn't understand completely what that question was question six and seven just seemed too similar I feel like only having one is worth it question eight I thought it was strange that there was only a positive question so we're only asking like the plus and not the minus that seems I'm a little biased to me um then I would flip the sections of safer and healthier burlington with bpd I would ask the overarching kind of vision question follow the vision with the last section and then put bpd at the end um question 13 if that could be a ranking question instead of a choose all that apply I think that could be interesting but I'll defer to the survey survey people I think it's just I could I could I feel it's just we're gonna get a lot of people who will answer all of them which may not provide us with kind of what we want um and yeah top of four same comment that Perry made I'm not sure why that is even there um I think that if we wanted to do something around defining public safety since that's what the survey is about I think that could be helpful but I didn't I didn't understand that either um and I saw that we've got no raising their hand so I'll permit them to speak then go to you Ryan and then give Stephanie a second round go ahead and hear me yes cool um I'm going to try and remember I've been trying to keep things in my head and um I might forget but I'll just write them then try to if I forget um so the first thing I'll say right off the bat there's probably a plan around this but I just hope that there's going to be a plan to make printed versions of these available so that the owners won't be on folks to like access a printer and etc um like if there can just be stacks available in easy to access places that would be great um a couple other things so question six and seven the ones that um are in the public safety section I think it's really important that first responders that those are separate um options I think that like there's like the etc I'm like I don't even know what the etc is I don't know if that includes police but like my response about police versus firefighters would be very different um same with the social worker mental health or crisis responder I am a little bit fuzzy on what crisis responder would be and I think maybe you could come like social worker mental health professional but I think just being more clear about who those people are because I think that there are nuances and also just thinking about like the amazing um efforts that are being done to bring in like different people other than um people who historically respond to like quote unquote emergencies um oh gosh let's hope I can oh and then 14 and I think maybe I heard someone talk about this apologies also if this is redundant but I'm just not sure where these five things came from and uh yeah so I guess I'm wondering yeah so I guess I'm just wondering like if there's a reason that it's these five things if the city is just like particularly interested in whether people know about this but it just uh yeah I guess I'm just curious about it um and like if it's necessary and what the reasoning is behind that but like I just want to approach the conversation and then folks can take it from there um and then the very last thing I think um there's a couple times that the word crime is used crime feels like a tough word because it feels pretty suggest not it feels subjective um a little bit and I think that Commissioner Harp articulated well like the crime enforcement thing like which side of that um but I also just think that crime in general feels like a pretty uh subjective thing that's defined by like like someone one person at least who's involved in it but might not be seen in the same way as everyone so um thanks this is cool I was I'm glad to be able to just ask directly in here I appreciate this done great thanks now and then going to Ryan and then back to Stephanie thanks I just wanted to um respond really quickly to a couple of points and just kind of throw in a few a few pieces of insight just because I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff the first one is um peer research does a lot of tracking on cell phone and smartphone use across income groups and across um geographies we can look a little bit closer into what is available to kind of get more geographically specific but across the country two things that have been noted um really strongly one is that we do have relatively strong smartphone adoption across the board um income-wise uh even if there is still a gap I appreciate the constant um you know let's let's stay aware of where those gaps are where those blind spots are the reason that we emphasize mobile friendliness is that because it's not just the the 71% of people under $30,000 of income that have a smartphone it's the fact that almost 30% of people underneath $30,000 in income rely on that as their only way to access the internet and so the cell only or the cell first the mobile first kind of approach is really about making sure that if we do get somebody online that we are not excluding them because they do not have screen width we're not excluding them from being able to participate fully and so we want to make sure that the the platform uh we talk a lot about mobile first we want to make sure that the platform is optimized to work there and everywhere else so that's that's just to put that out there um I also there's a few comments that have been floating around about you know how do we split up how do we deal with demographic questions up front behind um I would suggest thinking very carefully throughout survey about what information is the most important to get uh from everybody because you do have drop-off naturally in any in any survey um and this platform will capture anything that is anything that is entered so if you enter one question and then close your browser uh it will be it will be logged and so that first question ought to be the most important one um in a lot of ways and I will emphasize that um there are some of those demographic questions that are really important to capture uh it is it is important to know who we are talking about uh in order to understand these results not just get numbers of responses so um I do I do want to emphasize that that doesn't necessarily give you a clear answer and I know that everybody wants to have a clear answer should we be putting them up front should we be putting them in the back uh in many cases we will um ask the most important questions up front uh sometimes that includes a demographic question or two with an ask at the end do you have a moment to answer a little bit more about yourself so there is the there is a third path that could allow for some of those details that maybe are secondary um in the demographic section to come back at the end and then uh the final point that I'll make just on methodology um this is kind of my role I will leave the content to uh to others um is uh I I agree that um in general check all that apply questions that can be um you know clearly I all of these would apply to me um it can can limit the usefulness of the data on the other side if we end up seeing a lot of people answering everything um I would offer as a suggestion to tweak the language slightly to talk about what are most important what are the best the highest impact those kinds of language points and then limit the choices to three of six or two of six or two of five or however it breaks down so that you're forcing people to make some choices uh in prioritization there um uh based on their experience and that doesn't work for all questions but uh we do find a lot of people really want to ask ranking questions where people explicitly put things in order and I will put one caveat on that which is um people by the social science research around this um people can readily relatively easily rank about three items on a list uh after that the accuracy of item number four versus item number five much less item number four versus item number seven is almost none like there's there's very little uh actual difference in their brain between those items and it's very easy to overemphasize things that end up on the bottom of a list uh and so I just wanted to put that out there as another piece of uh kind of survey design wisdom that we've picked up over the years uh so I will leave it at that and I'm happy to answer any follow-ups if there are any thanks that's really helpful Ryan um Stephanie yeah a couple of additional things uh so with regard to question 13 on uh what actions you'd recommend to make burlington a healthy and safer community I'd suggest an additional question that asks people what organizations or agencies or entities or actors could most be most relied on to help promote public safety in burlington and then give people a list of choices and a space for other uh regarding the 911 question which I guess is number five I was puzzled by this um you're asking people to talk about something they may or may not have had experience with and so maybe that was your intent is to find out how you know sort of what they think about 911 and if so you know fine but it might be useful to ask have you ever used 911 and then to ask how satisfied they were with that and or and you may you know again as I said test whether people uh have confidence in it even if they haven't used it but I think you should anyhow I've kind of kind of said what I wanted to on that um on question the long list of events that happen to people I'm looking for the question number three I'm not sure that people will know the difference between emergency response and crisis response um I had some concerns about the use of uh crime as well and I thought maybe just a little bit more specificity so um for example theft and property theft is you know something that gets um talked about a lot in burlington so you might want to be more specific about that um and uh I suggest that you put question nine before number question eight so uh asking if people have had an interaction so what you're doing is your first jogging their memory about their experience and then you can ask them about their experience and I think it's probably Perry already said this but um going back five years into leading prior to COVID would be useful there and I want to second Zariah's comment uh that it does feel a little bit leading here and to have a you know question about whether people have had a negative interaction or observed negative things with regard to the burlington police department seems also useful to do and I don't know how to craft that but I just offer that as some feedback and that's it great any more hands and if not then Karis and Karima I invite you to oh sorry I see me hello thank you um in addition to what was already said um I just also want to um in a prior life I worked in digital advertising so uh the fact that this is mobile optimized is actually really important to me and I uh want to assure uh counsel Freeman that this is really a great opportunity there are significant um studies that have been done um by all the major search changes as well by Google um and at one point I work for a company where they actually came and spoke about all the stuff that they're doing I mean everyone's worried about and I say people need to worry about Google but the bottom line was that people are more likely to have internet access on a smartphone than they are to actually own a computer or laptop so this having it mobile optimized I believe will increase participation because there are a lot of people that um when it comes down to making choices about do you have a computer or laptop in your home versus needing to have a phone to communicate with that phone is going to be important and the overwhelming number of phones these days are in fact smartphones um I would like to have a question because I think we we do want to hear of course primarily from people who live in Burlington but we are going to have people who live outside of Burlington so I do agree that we that it would be worth it to have a question asking people if they are a business owner or work for business in Burlington I think that would be a good direct question to have some some data on um and if they are a business owner or work directly for a business that is located in Burlington what are public safety concerns that they have related to owning or working for that Burlington business we we hear a lot about quote-unquote quality of life issues and interactions downtown specifically so it would be I think if we have a way to kind of quantify that and see how people respond to those questions I think that would be helpful data to have thank you thank you Milo um and I just want to highlight something that Nell said which is if it's great that we've got a PDF version and if there could be a way that we get I think especially for houseless populations a way to um things I think that is a good population that we want to tag away to do this as a paper survey by a few folks that would be really great um and then going to go to Karen and then Perry again and I just have a quick comment I think Soraya you are the one that had said this and just want to reiterate that right now we've got the paper version is 26 questions it sounds like we may possibly be adding a couple which means we're going to have a a survey of around 28 questions and I would just encourage you to have um some sort of a maybe even uh you know human and entertaining kind of um you know something that says you know still only you know only three more questions to go or um something that would keep people engaged so that they would finish it um you know we do want as many people to complete the survey as possible um and uh um I think just something either that or the bar that goes on the bottom of a lot of surveys or something that keeps people going um so that they know that the end is in sight you know a lot of times you fill out a survey it says five to ten minutes and you're 20 minutes later you're like yeah I don't think so um and it's a little frustrating so thanks thank you great Perry and then hopefully we can hand it back to Keras oh Perry do I need to love you good I think Commissioner Harp with the piece still has his hand up thank you um thanks um so I just wanted oh thank you for saying um clarifying about the mobile first I think that makes me feel a lot better about choosing like mobile first in terms of folks who are actually missing accessing this via screen I think it doesn't necessarily like it sounds like folks who own a mobile device if you don't own a mobile device it's not likely it I don't know how likely it is that you that you use another device but basically I just want to make sure that this is accessible to folks um uh and who are who are more like who are at least you know not just folks who are not likely to experience police violence was I think my concern around that but I'm glad to hear the clarification around why um as far as like screen access we're prioritizing mobile the mobile version that was really helpful and I really appreciated the clarification I think um Commissioner Sugino brought up some great points on um question number three on page four and I think I entered this into the chat for um the not for attendees but for panelists and it that was an accident um but I just wanted to so I'm having I guess I'm having like sort of relatively some just sort of concerns about the the broader tone of the of the survey and I think um to me it just really jumped out to me that the um lack of um Burlington police officers or police sort of being listed as an option on number three which were what are your greatest concerns in your community when it comes to public safety um you know we know that um police are um it's a leading cause for for violence um it's the sixth leading cause for black men um I think that not having that as an option to me um indicates that this survey to me there are parts of it that are just not well written to capture the things that um are actually making folks unsafe um and one of and one of those things um which I think can make folks uncomfortable but it's true um are the police themselves so I I will definitely give you give more feedback over email I just that sort of just sort of suddenly like kind of clicked for me what um what I was feeling frustrated about overall especially um just really thinking about that that's you know like the sixth leading cause um of death for for young black men and um and that's not even an option as one of the responses so I just wanted to to point that out thank you thanks Perry we've got Randall and then back back to Kara's question mark thank you this is quick and I'm not making any concrete suggestions here about the survey I'll just say that I think that it would be a good thing uh for the uh the Burlington police department from the city of Burlington to start trying to acquire longitudinal data about about attitudes towards the police department and so I don't know to what extent question I think that many of the questions on this survey are not particularly well suited to being asked again uh next year five years from now 10 years from now to see whether or not various uh attitudes are changing what how public safety is implemented in the city so and I know that this particular survey won't necessarily be repeated but to the extent that some survey questions can be repeated in the future I think they'd be a good idea to I think it might be helpful if it is possible to think about whether or not there are questions that can try to track um try to track community attitudes towards public safety and policing in the community but like I said that's not a that's not a concrete suggestions right now it's just so I think ought to happen in the future thank you great great idea thanks um Caris yeah I'm also going to ask my colleague Karima to unmute and stop sharing this screen um well joint committee let me just say that um I write pretty big my handwriting's pretty big but let me just count the pages of comment which is so awesome I have one two three four five six seven eight nine ten pages of comments and then some uh some comments in the chat box and I am so thankful this is this is this is it this is what we want right Karima and uh again this is not be all and all um our recommendation is that um the joint committee will consider launching this by the week of May 10th we are consultants with project deadline that we have to work by okay so before May 10th there's going to be another revision of the content uh we have to limit uh the number of revision and so another uh word document after all these 10 pages of comment and all other ideas are considered another word document will be submitted to you and then after that Ryan will input in the platform questionnaire okay and then we will get two revision on the platform now nobody asked me this question but I want to answer it yes there will be a simplified paper version but the the you know someone mentioned by having a stack somewhere folks do you remember we all started the process with stakeholder workshops and engagement we're going to go back to them we're going to go back to our community partners and say will you be our collaborator our partner in becoming survey ambassadors and the word I think is we don't want to skew anybody I think someone's trying to say the word skew we don't want to skew any survey any survey respondents but we know that Talitha being located in Washington Ryan in Oregon we can't do this alone right so we're going to go back to our community partners uh Karima you've been wanting to say something oh no I was just going to say exactly what you said thank you and this is something that we're continuing to revise so you'll receive another version I think Karis uh Karis you and I didn't talk about it I think we need to send it as a link where everyone can provide comments so we're not trying to scramble looking at everyone's comments and if there are things that are not changed we will also provide an explanation for that as well we are aware that the survey link does need to be very concise so that we get more responses so we'll also be working on that as well but go ahead but join committee members we do not want this to be a booklet okay so if we can limit it to you know 28 is a lot already but we do not want it to be a booklet and as a consultant I am investing in this because I am falling in love with Burlingtonians more and more I engage in and I I have only been doing it two-dimensionally and so I'm also investing in trusted community messengers who's going to be on the ground uh you know people have told us grocery stores radio station right those ideas are also welcome on how can we increase participation of servant respondents a survey respondents and I also want to I want to close by saying that we need you like you're all showing up to town halls npa meetings it is an incredible encouragement so can you also partner with us in becoming the survey messengers right like get the word out so with that I will also work with Schuyler on making language accessibility handling that for not just residents but also business owners especially in the United States most of the small business owners are um either refugees with a background in immigration so I am very keenly aware of that and I want to make sure that we will also look into this. With that do you have any other comments? One more thing to add so the survey will go for three weeks and that'll give us the opportunity to track not just how many people are responding but who's responding so if there needs to be more outreach in different areas of the city we can do that as well and just continue to partner with some of the trusted community members. Great and then with a break I just want to quickly because some of the comments were in the chat and I just want to make sure for the visual people who are watching this not on zoom one person said I called the police department directly a month ago to obtain assistance and an emergency it does Patrick connected me with a police officer who I work with directly on the phone and on site I don't see a place on question nine to relate that um Stephanie said consultants in question three I think you might want to change the language on violent crime and delete enforcement um community members said how about have you ever hesitated to call the police because you think it will make things worse worse for you personally or worse for the situation thanks. Any other thoughts and comment on this item? I was just wondering um what is our goal for the final survey and what three weeks do we plan on having it out there? You asked me what what type of engagement and outreach activities are we planning on having? No I I'm trying to get an idea of the timeline so what would our what date would be our goal to have the final survey format completed and then what three weeks do we plan to have it out there for citizens to complete? So we'd like to wrap up all and have a final version by the end of next week and then we're launching a survey May 10th that's our goal and then the survey would close I believe May 31st. Okay thank you. Any other questions or comments on this item? Yeah can I just ask why it's three weeks and not longer? Like what what the purpose or benefit of it? Our contract ends on June 30th. There you go okay I hear okay okay thank you. And Jane I've done multiple surveys around different cities and and usually after that time period you don't get as much of a response it starts tapering off so okay so hopefully three weeks should be plenty. That makes sense okay thank you. The only other thing I would like to add someone had mentioned earlier one of our public commentators about how we were asking if people were aware of you know the MPAs and public meetings. I still want that question there because that is something that's been discussed a lot in terms of how do people get information about what's going on in the police department or how can they give feedback. So we definitely want to know the awareness of those things but I would like maybe a more targeted open ended question of you know what type of community engagement would you like to see? Thank you. And thank you for elevating that question Milo. So that one was put there and that was one of the ones that I think that we were going to comment that we would like to stay because we have heard a lot from community members about they want to feel more empowered. They want to be part of decision making processes. So what would be helpful is also to hear from you all on your end. I think we could leave it open but I also think there's an awareness piece if we could have more examples of how community members can have an opportunity to be involved I think that that would also be helpful. I would agree with that so I would like to have that original question still be there for that awareness because those are the main things that people should be aware of now maybe they don't take advantage of them or they can't take advantage of them depending on work schedules, education schedules, etc. But just having a dedicated open end question just to deal specifically with community engagement. I guess that's been a pet issue for me. I think that there's a lot more community engagement that could happen. I just think the relationships between parts of the community and the department really need to be improved and I love the fact that the survey can pick up that information geographically. I think that's really important because we have something that Commissioner Sigrino and I had talked about is the concept of neighborhoods because you can go into Ward 3 but it's made up of some very different neighborhoods. Thank you. Any other thoughts on this? Great closing this item. Karis and Karima and Ryan thank you so much for joining us and for listening to our feedback. Keep them all coming until the deadline okay? It's a generative process. Thank you very much. Goodbye. Thank you. And then the next item on the agenda I see we could have amended the agenda but it may just be easier to say. I didn't prepare anything. I was meaning to go to Police Commission but I've just been a little bit slander over the past few weeks so I don't have anything to present. If anybody has any particular thoughts happy to hear them but other than that I would move us to item five. I move to adjourn. Motion made to adjourn by Commissioner Stromberg seconded by Commissioner Hart. Any discussion? All those in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed? Seeing none we are adjourned at 649. Thank you so much to everyone. Thank you Chanel and welcome again Karen and James. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody. Have a good night. Have a good night. Thank you.