 Hello and welcome. Thanks for tuning into town meeting TV. My name is Bobby Lucier today. We're talking about housing We're talking about housing solutions housing design specifically for Vermont's aging population how we can retrofit and redesign our housing stock To better accommodate Vermonters of all ages and address our state's housing shortage So to dig into this subject today, we're joined by Taylor Stewart who is an architect as well as an author The book conscious home design. Thank you so much for joining us Taylor. I appreciate it. Yeah, glad to be here. Awesome So let's jump right in we know Vermont is one of the oldest states in the country And we're also in the middle of a housing crisis We there's been a lot of analysis about both of these issues in a couple different ways and couple different lenses There's certainly a lot of overlap in these two and these two phenomena What are you seeing in Vermont communities and in the data that you're looking at to make sense of these two issues and and Solutions that might be bubbling up that address both of these trends in tandem. Yeah, sure So, you know Vermont housing finance Agency has said we need 30 new thousand homes or or dwelling units whether it's an apartment or for you know independent freestanding single-family home 30,000 new by the end of the decade and that's They're gonna be difficult to achieve honestly But it shows that we have a strong A strong need for for new housing a lot of our housing stock It's you know, it's old and it's maybe not the right size, you know a lot of You know people are living differently today than you know, then they did a hundred years ago and We also are having, you know, like you mentioned the the aging population. So we're now tied with Florida for you know Percentage of our population who's 65 years or older, you know one in five Vermonters is Retirement age and so, you know that a lot of people are finding themselves as they retire out They're on a fixed income and maybe need to scale back their their lifestyle a little bit Or they have an empty nest and they don't and they no longer need three or four bedroom homes And why are they maintaining all that, you know space, you know collecting dust when when really it's not appropriate for their lifestyle anymore. So You know, that's really That's one of the demographics that we're that we're Needing attention to is elderly population who are aging need to age in place House but also young people start our homes, you know people that go off that leaves the state to Explore adventure get some experience go to college whatever see something that's different than Vermont But want to come home want to come home to their to their roots to their to their family to the the state They love and so, you know people are returning and there may not be Adequate housing for for the young adults as well. So these are the real two What what what Vermont is calling the missing middle? Housing, you know, so that's the that's really the crisis as I see it in terms of them where the demand Shortages supply shortages, that's the demand, right and you Mentioned, you know VHFA has is seeing a need for 30,000 new units not necessarily new houses, but new dwellings For folks to live which can look different from how we sometimes think of, you know, affordable housing or think of building building out the missing middle You know, how are you thinking about that in terms of dwelling units? You know, maybe not looking like the typical new house that we need for the young family or the typical Apartment that we need for the aging resident Are you seeing creative ways for us to adapt our existing housing stock to? Make room for new ways to accommodate our housing needs as a state. Yeah, that's that's a that's a great question, Bobby Vermont recognizes that, you know, we have this missing middle housing stock and also You know, there's certain limitations. We don't want to change the the character of Vermont You know, we don't want to see a whole bunch of suburban neighborhoods pop up and feel like you're living it Could be any other state, you know, you could be living in Illinois or or, you know, Tennessee or, you know, it Vermont has a unique character and quality people like a walkable village, you know, it's very human in scale We don't have a lot of tall buildings or massive Developments and but on the same token, we also don't want to just chop up all the open space and into small pieces You know, so, you know cluster developing where people are living in a more walkable mixed-use kind of development is is really a goal for Vermont and to, you know Preserve the the the the open space and the scenery the nature that that really is Vermont and characterizes that so There's funding there For that and you know, we can talk about that You know, if you want sure well, I mean, so you're an architect Taylor, right? so you're seeing you're kind of in a way on the front lines of The workforce needs as well as the funding sources, how do we actually adapt? our housing stock and so Yeah, what are you seeing is some past forward both in terms of resourcing Adopt the the adaptations that we need As well as getting the word out and making sure that people understand that There are options available if their housing Is either no longer suiting them or if they need a new solution to their to their housing needs, right? Right, so so tying back into the the concept of preserving open space You know rather than taking a farm field than just in putting a whole bunch of homes each on a two-acre lot And doing the cluster that's a way to preserve You know what's referred to in the industry as green fields meaning land that's never been developed it's still green and Infill housing is much more preferred You know it's saying well we already have a home on a two-acre lot Is there room to put an accessory dwelling unit on site or convert a garage or carriage house to an apartment or? Maybe in a case where of a large home being able to find a way to to truly make a separate independent apartment with its own kitchen living sleeping area and and separate entrance, you know, so the Vermont has Introduced funding specifically grant money to help people Create those kinds of housing units, and that's really useful for you know a lot of people have Space, you know they have a home that's too big for them. You may perhaps they're an empty naster and And they no longer, you know need all that all that that many that much house and This is a way for them to not have to sell the home They've been living in for 20 30 years and and moving to some apartment somewhere But they can actually create an apartment right in their home Not a roommate situation, but a truly independent separate apartment That they can rent out for income to help them, you know Cover the cost of maintaining a property but also it's actually You know there's no stipulation that says you have to rent it to a stranger off the street or put an ad in The newspaper you can you can create an apartment and have a family member Moving you know you can have your kids home from college living, you know So they don't have to live with you, but they can live there or the other way around, you know If you have aging parents you can create an in-law apartment and have mom and dad At home with you but not you know in you know people need some separation privacy, especially, you know multi-generational families that have different lifestyle schedules sleeping habits, etc So really the the funding is there specifically to target helping people create infill housing or Modify and adapt and reuse repurpose the existing homes, and it's much more economical to to mostly usually it's more economical to Redefine and redevelop an existing building or home Rather than start from the ground up with a brand-new foundation the whole thing, you know it's it's so it's really kind of the low-hanging fruit in terms of For for the least amount of money and the fastest shortest time to creating housing to relieve that that pressure That's really the where we want to focus is right there in between the margins of what's already Built right and while still you know do you think it's still typically possible to maintain the Architectural character of the house when you're you know putting in a renovation like that I mean that might be a concern for some people is that yeah something that's typically possible when you're doing a renovation project like this It's what it's what myself as a licensed architect and and everyone in the profession Strives for truly You know it's how can we create a renovation or an addition that doesn't look like it happened You know we want we want modern amenities. We want energy efficiency. We want to create You know low maintenance or no maintenance situations for people so they can spend more time living and less time you know painting and Maintaining their their home, you know, so we're trying to Incorporate all of our modern technologies and Also retain that that charm and an old-world character and So you mentioned the funding what can you tell us a little bit about the funding source and and how it works sure so We call it VHIP Vermont Housing Improvement Program They have specifically created two funds one is for landlords property owners and whether that's you know a One person who bought the house next door or duplex, you know as a rental apartment all the way up to landlords who have hundreds of apartment units You know some of the units have been Vacant for some time. They've been run down. They need work. Maybe they had You know a little bit of damage in the unit and they're sitting there going well I you know, I don't have $20,000 to rehab my apartment. And so it sits there vacant and The so VHIP says well we have a need for housing and we know that it's better to have people in in apartments Then then in a space that doesn't work for them You know, we don't need that no one wants to be pinched in a shoe that doesn't fit right so So so one Avenue of funding from VHIP is for rehabilitation of existing apartment units And the other is for creation of new apartment units new accessory dwelling units And whether that is attached to the home where you know, maybe it's converting the attic space or second floor To in its own apartment or maybe it's the basement. Maybe it's you know, cutting off You know separating off one wing of a house, you know To create a separate apartment. It can also be completely detached. It can be you know converting that Barn or garage or carriage house into into a little cottage or it could be creating a brand new Cottage, you know somewhere else on their property. So it it's very flexible in terms of what that looks like but creating an auxiliary apartment is there's funding available for that and It's encouraged and so I know that Individual municipalities and zoning districts are rewriting their zoning regulations to allow even in a single family They say single family residences only they're now changing that to say single family and an accessory dwelling unit So there's a lot of progression And support, you know, not just financially but also in the very Zoning regulations themselves to to help for monitors, you know, create create Adapt the housing in a way that works for them, right? How much does the program cover in terms of the expense the costs of actually doing that renovation? Sure, so the To bring apartments back online. It's up to thirty thousand dollars per per apartment and For the accessory dwelling unit. It's up to fifty thousand dollars is what's available And that covers Pretty much anything you can think of, you know in terms of planning or permit fees or engineering or architecture or Contractors or materials purchasing that the whole scope from from from idea to final nail in construction is is all of that scope is is Eligible for for funding does it get the place? You know ready to rent or I mean like there's still their appliances There's you know furnishing or like it does any of that get included or how does Yeah, absolutely. So if you're you know, if you have an existing apartment, you know You've got a duplex or something or you know apartment building that's that needs some renovation work Yes, but purchasing new appliances is is a legitimate expense. That's reimbursable through the VHIP grant program As well as painting or polishing the floors or putting down new floors or anything related to getting the space habitable right is it a reimbursement program It's it's actually the funds are distributed in four tranches, right? So one you know 25% right at the beginning of when your application is approved and you're and you're gonna start construction and Then another 25% is is done at a milestone, you know based on once you've started construction You're sort of halfway through kind of thing and then a third is done as you Get Closer to the end of the construction and then finally when you have a Signed lease agreement in place and a tenant is ready to move in and and again that can be you know, that could be your your One of your in-laws that can be a friend or a relative you could rent it to them for a dollar You know that could be a legitimate lease. It doesn't say you have to rent it for any certain amount of money But there is a limit When you receive the funds you You promise that you're going to rent the unit at HUD market rate, so you know perhaps And that's basically they determine that by you know, I think it's a hundred and twenty percent It depends on the district on the neighborhood But it's anywhere from 80 to 100 percent of the median income is is now what they figure out what the unit cost should be So you're saying well instead of renting it for a thousand dollars a month I'm going to rent it for eight eight fifty a month or something like that Right, you can always rent it for less than that and you can always rent it for for less But you can't rent it for more But that's just for five years and after the five-year period then you can do whatever you want to with it So it's not the grant money is not there for you to create an Airbnb You know it's it's there is that explicitly not allowed I guess because you need a lease agreement in place You need a lease agreement You're supposed to create housing for someone to live in full-time right yeah, right And so the state is not paying the contractor the spit the state pays the the homeowner the homeowner And then the homeowner is working through working with contractors directly. Is that typically that's right? Yeah, the homeowner will Hire a contractor or an architect to work with contractors on their behalf to get the project done And so the homeowner should have some money Either equity that they can borrow against from a home equity line of credit or some cash in the bank to To make the process happen, and then they'll get reimbursed, you know They'll apply for these milestone payments, you know from from the state, right? Okay, so it does require at least a little bit of that upfront Equity in order to it read you have to have a little bit of working capital You know and whether that's cash in the bank or you know equity in your home or in the property that you can you know Borrow against that's you know, both of those are are acceptable right So have you done this with any homeowners in Vermont? So I am working with a woman in Williston. It's it's such a wonderful story. I'm really inspired by it. She's she's 65 years old She's an empty nester, you know her her kids are grown and and gone and She has four bedrooms and she's got all this space and she says what am I what am I doing here? You know, it's too big for me But she doesn't want to sell because she's she's been living there for 30 years, you know She's she loves her home and the location and so many memories there You know and she likes to be able to invite, you know kids back for for you know weekend visits and stuff But you know, she she is still working she she's active in the community and she has an income But she's slowing down, you know, and she sort of has a five-year plan to to retirement and Right now, you know, she can you know Carry the the property, but you know, it's she's sort of house poor You know all of her money goes to just you know maintaining this this big property, you know And she doesn't have a lot of extra, you know discretionary income or or you know Just putting things, you know, even even just boosting things up for Boosting up her savings account, you know for retirement So she had these different ideas. Well, what should we do? You know, should we Build an accessory dwelling, you know, you know put a cottage out. She has five acres of land Should we should we put a cottage out over there, you know, or should we subdivide the the the existing house? You know so that you know a family could move into it at some point and so Really, you know every property is unique every person's situation is their own and so, you know One of the things that I can help people with that I help people with as I look at well Here's option a here's option b here's option c here's all the different things we could do What's the what's perhaps the optimum? Option for you based on where you want to go in your in your circumstances, you know Both architecturally speaking but also your personal goals, you know your lifestyle goals How can we find the best way to adapt this property and so looking at options and coming up with solutions? That's really the purvey of an architect and a designer, right so She what it comes out what she wants to do is Actually create an accessory dwelling unit elsewhere on the property That she will rent for five years, which is required by the the VHIP Rules of the to receive that funding she will rent this out for five years and then when she's truly retiring at 70 She plans to move into that unit herself and and really downsize and then rent the whole the whole house out to a to a large family and so You know it works very well for her and you know by that time her kids may have kids And they may be ready to move back home and have the big house, you know and she lives in the backyard You know grandma's in the back, you know, it's and so the family stays together there's you know it it leaves the door open for that kind of possibility, you know and And it certainly adds value to the property, you know because if you imagine a property going up for sale on the market If five acres, you know five acres of land with a four-bedroom house Sounds like a great a great property But if you say five acres of land with a four-bedroom house and a one-bedroom guest cottage in the back That's that's much more attractive. It gives you much more options. You know, that's a much more desirable Property so not only is she making it Livable more livable for her direct situation. She's also Creating value adding value to the to her land and to her investment that she can pass on to her kids, right? That's a that's a really wonderful story What do you think are I mean do you see uptake for this program happening across the state? I mean you mentioned so this is one project that you're working on What do you think are the obstacles that that people are facing when they're trying to? Is it just that they don't know about it or are they coming up against some some challenges within when they That's great. So I've been working with my planning local planning commission planning department and In my town and I I posted a thing about this program I posted a notice on the front page front porch forum you know, it's a it's a e-newsletter that goes out to every little neighborhood around every town and I Got a call from the planning department saying oh, we're so glad that you're talking about this because we're not getting any applications For this program, you know, it's people just don't know about it We think and and I said well, you know a people don't know about it or if they have heard of it They maybe don't know how to navigate it. They don't know how to go after the funds They don't know how to apply they don't even know where to find an application and what's that like it just seems? Difficult seems like a like a mountain that they have to climb and if they're not used to You know researching properties and looking at building codes and zoning codes and and that whole process Then it's then it's even more difficult. I know when I was first Exploring it to educate myself about it. I felt a little Hesitation a little trepidation there was some there was some friction You know to to overcome for me to jump in and roll up my sleeves and say well, what's this all about? What's the process and so I went ahead and Navigated my way to to the VHIP website and downloaded an application I've read all the contingencies and what it was appropriate for and what things weren't it was not appropriate for and then I filled out an application a mock application with myself as the client so I could put an ad you for my mother-in-law on my land and After I went through that process I Said you know what it was a little difficult because I felt like I was bushwhacking to the weeds But it's actually not that hard and once you've done it once you can do it so much It's just it's very simple. You know once the path has been carved You just walk along and so that's why I'm offering to help people in that process You know I can help them a you know look at their property and figure out. What's the best way to to? Divide you know to develop it or divide it and and build on it can also help them Navigate the process to access and grant money can help them find Responsible contractors to you know it's basically I'm like a concierge You know where I'll take a property owner and walk them right through from their big idea all the way to you know Completion and and moving in right is there any are there any communities or? Segments of communities in Vermont where this program where people wouldn't be eligible for this program Are there any restrictions in terms of eligibility that would make it difficult for someone to access this resource? Not that I'm aware of you mentioned before that That you know some towns have actually been you know sort of revamping their zone to make sure that Certain neighborhoods aren't restricted to just single-family homes and she can have accessory doling in sorry are there some municipalities? You know just I don't know if you know or not, but whether are that you know that are that are so restricting Yeah, so there's sort of a State-wide sort of mandate saying we want all you know like like like we talked about you for even if you're District even if your neighborhood is zoned single-family residential only They're sort of a statewide, you know along with this whole you know Push to to solve the housing They've requested that Every local jurisdiction implement this by the end of 2024 So many of them have done it done so already, but a few stragglers You know there are some very rural areas that don't even have a zoning Department or planning a building department and they and they send people at the county level or to the town next next door to them You know there's some pockets of Vermont that have no zoning and so they may be slower to adopt changing zoning regulations because they're They don't exist or that's a very part-time volunteer situation from local people. So I Don't expect that a person even if they were living in such a place that they would find any kind of resistance to to doing this though It's just You know it's housing. It's about it's for everyone. So it's there's not gonna be any kind of they're not saying you can do it And you can't is there's no, you know sort of discrimination there other than you know, you need to be creating housing that's Not rented, you know, it's there's a cap on what you can rent it for for the first five years and that it's Rented full-time not as a vacation, you know property right The tailors do it really appreciate your perspective. So if someone wants to Is seeking out your guidance on this process? How can they get in touch with you? the simplest way is just to go to my website Vermont home design comm and my phone number and contact information is there and they're welcome to Reach out if they want me to you know if they want to discuss their project with me That's great. And then we didn't even really get a chance to discuss too much. You brought your book released a few years ago Can you just tell us a little bit about so conscious home design? What does that mean and you know, does are you using that the principles of conscious home design? And your work is an architect. And what does that look like sure? So conscious home design is really a big idea. It says that homes are can be more than just beautiful shelter You know that that you know, we're Human beings we have our needs are diverse. We may have you know, we have creative expression needs. We have Love and belonging needs. We want to have relationships. We want to have a life of purpose and meaning You know, it's it's really based in you know, what we know from from Maslow's the hierarchy of human needs pyramid You know, we're not simply animals that just need food and shelter, you know We have you know, we're more complex than that. And so, you know, there's a big it's interesting time It ties in with Vermont's aging population and we're such a we have such a heavy leaning towards the baby boom generation as people are living longer and There's a big Phenomenon around the world in certain pockets where people are living to a hundred years old, you know the centagenarians and It's like well, what what do all these people have in common, you know, what's what? What are they all doing because these people are in Italy these people are in Japan these people are in California it's like they're all over the world and Conscious home design is really about saying well, what are the things that make life? rich and meaningful and and and and alive, you know and worthwhile for for you so that you can create your own You know sort of paradise right have your own home be that place of self-expression and and self development and connection so that's that's sort of the big idea of conscious home design and Yeah, you can also get a copy of that on on my website. There's a link there So or we hit number one on Amazon a couple years ago, so it's available online. That's great Well Taylor Stewart architect and author based out of Bennington. Is that correct? Yeah chef's very great awesome Yeah, I work all over the state excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming in and talking with us today I really appreciate it. Thank you Bobby. Yeah, of course and thank you for tuning in to town meeting TV my name's Bobby Lucia and Feel free to check out our website ch 17 TV or our YouTube channel town meeting TV To find this and other programs covering your local community Thanks so much and so long