 Good afternoon everybody and thank you for joining us today on Condo Insider. I'm really excited today to have a special guest who is Lori Sides with, she is a condo specialist with the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs in the real estate branch. Thank you, Lori, for joining us and being here today with us. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. So we're going to go through some of the most frequent complaints into your office. So if we can pull up the slides. So some of the most frequent ones are like people complain about not being able to get certain condo documents or they do request for, they do the proper request forms, but then they don't get any response back. Another one is constant board meeting or not constant, but the publication of the board meeting notice. And I know now there's some confusion because most of the meetings are held via Zoom. So when it's posted on the notice, are you supposed to type out that whole string or can it, how can it be transmitted to an individual easier, you know? Well, they should have the link in the notice, obviously. Yeah, but then when you, but how is the person supposed to be able to click on that link when it's a posted notice? You know, I see what you mean. Right. You know, so that's where some people are complaining about. Okay. You know, and then board not following 514B. And if you're in plan community associations, that would be 421J. And then you also mentioned some, a lot of topics, complaints are about water damage and insurance. Yes. Unequal house rules enforcement. And then owners that are unhappy about board actions and decisions. And then again, board not being responsive to the owners. So what we want to really talk about today is about condo docs and how to request those documents. So on the next slide, it has the actual statute. So an owner can request to review on 24 hour loan, the minutes once they've been approved. Right. Yes. Okay. What other documents can they review on 24 hour loan? So essentially, I would think they would go into the managing agent's office to be able to review certain documents. Yeah. I mean, they'd either have to go into the manage managing agent's office if they're going to view it or, you know, they would have it on loan. So like you said, the minutes and the the meeting minutes for the current year and the prior year. It's one of the things. Okay. So if a homeowner is going to wants to request, like maybe they want to request like a certain, a certain contract, maybe there was a repair done on the roof or whatever, like a roof repair, they want to see the actual, maybe they want to see the scope of work, because they don't fit, they don't maybe they feel that something wasn't done appropriately. So they make a request for condo docs and it's, if you move to the next slide. Okay. So how do we quest for documents? There is a, there's a link on this PowerPoint, but basically on the DCCA website, it has a section. It says resources for condominium owners, boards, or boards of directors, or and or associations. So there's a, there's a link in that section of your, of your website that people can actually research, go to, and they can pull up one of the DCCA's flyer resources that shows them exactly how condo owners can access information. If you move to the next slide. So that's the flyer that shows, shows the statute and how they can proceed about going to obtain whatever documents that they request. It's a simple form to fill out. So they fill out the form, they submit it. So here's where the question has been arisen. Sometimes they submit, do they submit it to the managing agent, or do they submit it to the board themselves at the next board meeting? Who actually, if they submit to the managing agent, is the managing agent obligated to submit that request to the board as well? Because the managing agent is the one that has all the documents. Right. I mean, it kind of depends what the agreement is between the board and the managing agent. They may decide that the managing agent is the one to receive all the requests for documents from the owners, rather than the board, because as you said, the managing agent would maintain the records. They may say, you know, no, the request should go to the board. It just kind of depends. So I mean, there's not one answer. That actually would be reflected in their managing agent contract. Who has that responsibility? It may be. Because I've had calls where people will say, you know, I contacted the board. I asked them for documents and they told me that I need to contact the managing agent. So really, I mean, you can start with the board. You can, or you could really send it to the board and copy the managing agent. And that way you kind of hit both. And yeah. And they have 30 days to respond, right? To that request? They have 30, yeah, 30 days to respond from when they receive the request. And they're supposed to either provide you with a documentation that you ask for, or they're supposed to say, you know, we're not going to provide it to you. And this is why. Right. And there is a separate form for that as well. When they say why, they're not going to do it. There's another form for the managing agent or the board to say why, right? There's like three forms, I know, when you do a request for documentation. Mapa David, then the form with whatever you want. And then the third one is for whoever you make the request to, if they're going to deny it, they have to state the reasons why they're denying it. Yeah, I mean, they should be telling you why there shouldn't just be saying, no, you can't have it. They should be saying, you know, you can't have it. And this is why. Okay. Now, let's move on to what happens if there's no response. And you've done multiple responses. So I'm going to turn this part over to you. So the RICO part of the process. Okay. So if you've made a request, and of course, we always say, we recommend or suggest that you make your request in writing, not just call, right? Because you can't really substantiate a phone call. And if you do end up having to file a complaint with RICO, you know, you can't document the phone call. Whereas if you've sent an email or you've used the RICO form or your own letter for the request, you know, you save a copy for yourself, right? So you can submit that. Basically, RICO does have a complaint form. You can access it through our website. And it's pretty self-explanatory. Of course, it's your name. And they're going to ask you what documents you requested. They're going to ask you for a copy of your written request. Or requests, like, you know, if you've sent more than one. And then they're also going to ask you if the board, border or managing agent responded. So, you know, did they send a letter saying, no, you can't have it because of this? Or did they simply not respond? So you would, of course, want to, you know, supply copies of those documents, those requests, and if you got a denial along with the complaint form. So if you got absolutely no request or no response to your request, then you would note that on your complaint. Then how does, what does RICO take, take it from there? If there was no action taken on your request? So basically, you know, they review their request. They review your request for documents and determine whether you have made a valid request. And my understanding, I mean, I don't work at RICO, right? But my understanding is they will contact the managing agent or perhaps the board and, you know, kind of ask, you know, ask about it. Ask about the request or, you know, why they haven't given it sort of thing. So what would be your best practices to resolve a complaint? Well, or maybe even prior to doing the RICO complaint? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for condo living, right, there's this sense of community and we need to get along and we need to compromise. And so I don't know if I would, you know, make a request and then they don't respond and I would rush right off to file a complaint. I mean, you can, but I would probably do a second request for the documents. And maybe, you know, in that request, you know, hey, I, you know, Chapter 514B says I'm entitled to these documents. Just want to make sure you're aware of that, you know, something kind of light, but yet sort of supporting the fact that you should be getting these documents. And, you know, I guess, hopefully they respond. But if not, you know, then maybe at that time you would want to consider filing the complaint with RICO. And everything is about documentation. So you really document your efforts. Yes. Back to the board. Yes. Okay, so I want to hit some of these other bullets from the first car point. The board meeting notice. And then because since now everything's being done virtually where you do Zoom or whatever other virtual platform. So they'll put the link. But the problem is the link is in a normally it's a hyperlink that you just click on through your computer. But yet it's a posted notice on the bulletin board. And they're saying, you know, because I've had these complaints from people and they said, how can we click on the link when it's posted on the bulletin board? We're asking them to send us a link via email so that they can just click on it. So is there any guidance that you guys your office can give when it's especially now during the pandemic, everything's virtually? I mean, you know, not really because of course, when the statutes were written, it was before we even had, you know, Zoom or Skype or Teams or any of these capabilities. So of course, you know, it doesn't really address it. I understand what you're saying about, you know, not being able to click on the link. I mean, I guess they could ask the board or the managing agent, hey, you know, could you send out, I'd like to attend the meeting, can you send out the link and see if maybe they would agree to do that? Instead of having to, you know, go to the platform yourself and then enter in the meeting ID and, you know what I mean, all those things without being able to just easily click on it. So it's really kind of taking a common sense approach being community minded. Holders are allowed to attend. So you really want to still in sense, still put in your sense of community, being able to invite them on board, because if you don't send the link out, you're saying no, you're not, you're not allowed, you know, because if they have to manually write that link out, because, you know, it could be that long, you know, but me, you're kind of like telling no, you're not invited if you don't send the link. So I kind of tell people I go, you know, it's kind of common sense, because you need to click on that link. You can't expect everybody to type out that whole long thing manually. You know, I said, if they request it, just send it to them. It's all about transparency and being friendly and being community minded, right? Right. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I don't, I don't really see why they would have an issue sending out the link, you know. And which is makes the most importance about doing their websites, because they could post it on their website and send people to the website. It's posted on the meeting, they'll just post it on the website, just go to the website. And that way they get more people to take a look at the website, because the website now is going to be becoming the portal of information for a lot of people, you know. Yeah. Okay, the other one was about water damage and insurance. Yeah, I mean, we, of course, people like I, you know, I kind of was talking to you before the program started, people call us when they have a complaint, right? They don't call us to tell us they're happy. So, unfortunately, so, you know, a lot of times they'll call because there's some kind of water leak that happens. And, you know, it's an insurance concern. And, you know, there's the whole, it's complicated. And I'm certainly not an insurance expert, but, you know, is it something that's a common element? Is the association responsible? Did the source come from your neighbors? I don't know, you know, bathtub overflowing? Is it, you know, personal? Is it their insurance company that's responsible? And so people are calling us, you know, for help and for guidance in terms of, you know, what do they do? Yeah, so we do get that concern quite often. So they're not understanding where the boundaries are as to the responsibility or who's going to fix it. Right. And they're just, you know, kind of like, hey, we need help. So we normally tell them, you know, they should, of course, if there's something leaking and flooding right now, you know, you have to, you have to fix it and contain it, right? You can't be on the phone trying to determine or waiting for the next board meeting to see, you know, who's responsibility. I mean, you know, you have to fix it. But, you know, of course, you'd want to notify the board, you'd want to notify the resident manager, managing agent, you know, your insurance company, you know, you want to cover all your bases, and then someone's going to end up fixing it. And the insurance companies usually will be the ones who are going to, you know, sort of duke it out among themselves and decide who's responsible. That's a technical term. Okay, what about these unequal house rule enforcements? Well, I mean, you know, people call and say that house rules aren't being enforced equally, you know, maybe my neighbor did something and, you know, they didn't get cited, I did it and I got cited, you know, that sort of thing. My neighbor's a friend of someone on the board, you know, I mean, we get, we get all kinds of, you know, people complaining about those, those types of issues. Is there one that comes to mind that is just totally off the wall? You mean about, no, not really. Yeah, not really. Yeah, I remember being, I remember, I'm on the board of my condo, but I remember even my old condo, it was, it's a hard thing to kind of like, make sure you just stay on a straight line, you know, you might have a little issue because they've been a pain in the necks, but you still got to maintain that level of being straight, you know, and I think sometimes that's where it gets a little complicated and you essentially have to walk away for a little while and then come back to it, kind of get your emotions out of it. Yeah, plus, I mean, if you think about it, the board isn't going to necessarily tell you, you know, what type of action they took regarding a violation on the part of another homeowner. So, you know, you may call us saying it was unfair and they weren't cited, but you don't know, they could have received a letter. They're not necessarily going to run to you and say, Hey, guess what? I got a violation letter from my, you know, from the board. I mean, those aren't the kind of things neighbors usually tell each other, right? That's true. Yeah. Okay. And again, there's one more about what board not responsive to older. So it kind of goes back to the complaint that if the board requests certain things, but the, or a homeowner requests certain things from the board, and they're not being responsive. I mean, is that, that's like, what's on the top of your list of biggest complaints? What's the biggest complaint you guys get? Oh, gosh, I mean, I don't know. It's kind of hard to say because, you know, I've been getting a lot of document request complaints, but and the one I just received recently, it was something about the person made a request. And I can't remember if they did it by email or by mail, but they've been doing it this way. They said for at least, you know, a year or so. So then all of a sudden, the managing agent turned around and said, no, you have to send it by the other way. So if they were all along doing it by mail, now it's by email. And if it was all along my email, now it's by mail. So the person was a little confused, you know, like, why did it change? Why didn't they tell me? Because they hadn't been getting any kind of response. So they were, they were told basically they were communicating, they weren't communicating via the right method to get a response. Oh, okay. So yeah, yeah, because I did have another person say that they they use the forms that are on the website. But then when they submitted it to the managing agent, the managing hate agent had it for 30 days. And when they followed up as to like, where are my documents, they said, well, you did submit it on the correct forms. You can only submit them on our forms. So the managing agent's own forms. I'm like, they had it for 30 days, could they not have communicated that to you sooner? You know, yeah, it's kind of another common sense thing, I think, you know, it's like if it if you receive something, and it's on the wrong form, you know, wouldn't you try to help whoever is requesting the document and say, Hey, you know, we will be happy to help you, but you need to put it on the right form. And this is the right form, you know, not just like you have to put it on the right form and you get to guess what that form is, you know, required that the data requires a notary. You know, so now they have to go and it's not that easy to get a final notary, you know, because the banks you have to have an appointment, unless you really know a notary, but you know, so because I know a couple of times I was kind of a hassle to go to the bank and get a notary. Okay. Okay, so what are the things can you add in about what what the condo specialist do does for the kind of reading? Well, so we're basically, I guess, sort of a resource for information as well as referrals. So, you know, people call us obviously when they have questions, when they have complaints, when they're not sure about something. So that's our main functions education, you know, to try to there's a lot of information out there, but people aren't necessarily aware of it. And, you know, they don't usually call us until they have a problem. So, can I just mention one of our new resources that we that we have, we just have this really, really neat new condominium video education series. And we've posted the first four videos on our website. The series is called what condo living guide. And we're even going to have one it's going to be a series of 15 right now we just have four on the website, but we're even going to have one on on on association request for association records. So kind of what we're talking about today, we will have a video on that. And they're really kind of fun, engaging, interesting videos. So I encourage everybody to go to our website and check them out. Cool. So you have four. So you have one condo docks, what are the other ones? Oh, well, right now the ones that are posted, it's if you're interested in purchasing a condo kind of what you should know. There's one about owners rights and responsibilities. I think the board members rights and responsibilities. And I can't remember the fourth one. It might be new or new condo owners, I believe. I think that's what we have now up there. It's on the main page. Yes. When you go to the main page, we have sliders. So the first slider it says Hawaii condo living guide. And if you click on it, it'll take you to the page where you can view all four videos. Oh, okay. Okay. You should check it out too, Raylene. Yeah, because it's that one that slides. You can move it back and forth. Yeah, okay. Okay. So really best practices when it comes to complaints is really making sure you document everything. You know, when you're starting to see issues coming up, is really documenting your best efforts to resolve the complaint in a reasonable manner. To communicate with the board if you're requesting for certain documents. And I really want to really stress to even to the managing agents because you know, some owners don't always, when they buy a condo, they don't always, they don't even know what the declarations and bylaws are for what they are for to begin with. Even the house rules. But, you know, simply just make it available upon request. And it's not like you have to print it out. You PDF it to them. And it's the person requesting it's got to pay the money to print it out, you know, but right. But even house rules, I remember one person told me that they had to pay for a copy of the house rules and I go, why, why do you have to pay for it? You should give it out for free because you want to encourage complying with the house rules. You know, so some craziness goes on when people want to generate revenue. I go, no, that's, that's crazy. You're making it harder for them to comply with house rules. So give it out for free. Post on the website and they can, there's no excuse that it's on the website. So they have every opportunity to go look at it. You know, yeah, make it easy. Don't make it difficult. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what are the best practices can you, can you, can you give us give advice to homeowners or even board members? As far as complaints. Yeah. Yep. I mean, if we're talking about access to the records, I think if you're on the board or you're the managing agent, you know, you should probably try to familiarize familiarize yourself with the documents that you're required to, you know, give to an owner. Just so you're aware, I mean, I would think they would be, but, you know, maybe they're not. So become aware. And, you know, if it's something you should give, then, you know, give it, try to try to not have a complaint, right? If there are other complaints, most of the statute, as you know, is self enforcing. So when there is a complaint, it would be something where you try to resolve it through mediation, arbitration, or, you know, last would be court action. So there's only a few limited sections of the statute where you can actually file a complaint with the regulated industries complaints office or RICO, and the documents, you know, section is one of those. That would pretty much be the, because they wouldn't do anything about enforcement, right, in a RICO complaint. Would they? Well, again, it has to be one of the few sections where they have the power to investigate. And there's not, it's spelled out in 514b-65, investigatory powers. And, you know, there's not that many. Most of it is self enforcing. Okay. So we got about three more minutes. So now with the pandemic, have you been seeing, hearing any unusual complaints because of the pandemic? Because there's some people, you know, the social distancing, wearing the mask, anything like that? I think in the beginning, you know, you know, like about a year ago, so March and April, I think a lot of people had a lot of questions because well, it's new and we really didn't know very much. And of course, people were scared. So, you know, there were things about, you know, being in the lobby and the elevators and, you know, how often should it be cleaned and, you know, can someone sit in the lobby and, you know, all those kinds of things. And, of course, meetings, you know, should they have them? Can they have them in person? Do they need to have them, you know, can they have them electronically? Those were definite issues. If someone has COVID in your, you know, condo, you know, can they tell you, you know, can I say I need to know the name of the person who has, you know, COVID? I mean, you know, these sorts of things. Of course, mask wearing, you know, and then amenities, right? You know, there was questions, can they close the pool? Can they, you know, can they close the barbecue? Do I still have to pay my maintenance fee? I don't get to use the pool now. They closed it. You know, why do I still have to pay, you know, my maintenance fee? And it's kind of hard to explain to people, well, even though you can't use the pool, it still needs to be treated with chemicals. You know, the pool company still needs to come and clean it. So, you know, there's still an expense there, right? Yeah, lights that need to be paid for. Yeah, exactly. I mean, these things, these expenses don't go away just because of COVID. Yeah. So have those complaints kind of like dwindled down now that we're a year into this new lifestyle? I think so. I don't really get those kind of complaints anymore. I know for me, I'm like, I'm going to have to start walking. Man, I can feel my muscles getting a little wiggly there. Yeah, you and me both. Okay. So we've got a minute left. Okay. Really fast. A whole minute. Wow. So I want to thank everybody. Make sure you go to the DCCA website, the real estate branch website, right? Yes, the real estate branch. And they have some, they posted some of their own videos for condo owners. I'm looking forward to the next one on the documents because I know we've done this conversation quite a few times because so there seems to be still issues getting all the word spread out into the areas and getting everybody educated. But Laurie, I really want to thank you and your office. I know I sometimes I communicate with you guys quite often on certain things just to clarify. But I really appreciate you coming in today and also appreciate everyone in your office for what you guys do. Being condo specialists, not that easy. Well, you're welcome and I'll pass those kudos or thank yous on to them as well. Okay. Thank you. And thank you everybody for joining us. We'll see you again next week.