 Okay, welcome everyone. It's this is documentation office hours it's the 12th of September, India standard time 11th of September US US time. Thanks everybody for being here. Remember, we abide by the Jenkins code of conduct. And derages here. And Kristen is here. Great. Okay. All right, so. Oh, whoops wrong wrong place to even put the notes. Let's get this correct. Sorry. Okay, got it. So one topic for me might be a review of the contributor summit part two docs without Jenkins docs without wiki was the topic that we had there. We've, we should probably review the 2.316 Jenkins changelog. Right the weekly changelog. What else. Oh, oh yes the contributing to open source workshop. I would like to review that just because Kristen you in particular may have some additional hints for topics what I've, what I've discovered by creating this thing is. It has, I think the potential to be a tutorial online and I would like to talk about that idea, and then talk about how it might be decomposed into useful sub sections of the tutorial sub steps. And identify the other is the other thing where I think you can be especially helpful as you may be able to identify other sub steps that are missing other steps that are that are useful helpful etc. And then we always have the option of we could partition it into pieces. And have various ones you know dirage if you want to do if you feel like you'd like to try to do some writing with me you and I could do this thing together, introduce it as a blog post and tutorial at the same time. Sounds great. Okay so so that's when I'd like to talk to. And then I think that's it for me any other topics the rest of you would like. Oh, Hacktoberfest we need to, we probably need to talk to that one to identify what work we need to be done, etc. Anything else. Okay, then let's go ahead with Jenkins docs without wiki as part one. So dirage thanks again so much for attending the Saturday, the Saturday event that was, that was really great and I thoroughly enjoyed the process we use so what we did is dirage and I, and four or five other people all got together and had a session of about one hour and on conference session talking about. What are we going to do for Jenkins documentation, since wiki Jenkins.io is gone and is not coming back at least not as a confidence server. So what we did is we talked about three, three or four stages right so there's what we have today. What's in progress. What what are the alternatives and next steps, and then we had one open question one question that came up what if I want to help. Those were the the ideas and we broke the what do we have today into three things. There's ww dot Jenkins.io the primary documentation site. It has lots of broken links to wiki Jenkins.io many incomplete pages. The wiki data for that is for for wiki Jenkins.io is now stored as HTML files on this get repository confidence data content. And so in this Jenkins folder with 1676 files is the content so for example if I open the one I was just using was this one ansible plugin. Here it is as HTML and then if I clone this repository run it locally I can actually open it and read the file. And so it's usable. So we've got the data. It's just not yet presentable to users. Then plugins so any questions on on that first part of the what we have today. Okay next part of what we have today then is plugins Jenkins.io and yes it is the primary plugin documentation site we intend for it to continue that way. Right, it will, it will remain that and should remain that way. And then search services, excellent data coming from it great development work done by Gavin Mogan and spinnet connection. And, and the result is a very usable site for people who are interested in in all things about specific plugins. Now, the challenge there is that many of the pages of the plugin site. For example, this ansible when I was just navigating to uses content from an exported copy of wiki Jenkins.io this plugin wiki docs is the plugin documentation pages exported as Markdown. So to the example I showed earlier here's the ansible page exported as Markdown. And this, while, while certainly better than nothing is not final plugin documentation and really needs needs people to migrate the content into their GitHub repositories. Any questions on plugins Jenkins.io. Okay, then the last piece is the pipeline steps reference and again thanks very much to Kristen for this one, the pipeline steps doc generator that reads all the plugins extracts their documentation and publishes it. And there was this Google summer of code project idea that recommends ways we might improve the layout and the navigation. And then there was the the she code Africa project. We should put a link to that shouldn't we the she code Africa contribute on here. This thing that we. We did to improve that and it reminded us that there's an enormous long way yet to go on that project. The three sort of looks at what we've got today any comments or corrections or concerns there. Nice summary by the way, I like. Well, so it was part of part of this exercise is I had not created a summary until actually in the meeting. And so or just minutes before it and, and the act of creating the summary helped me sort of focus because now it's the what's in progress topic. And some things that we might like to be in progress are actually not. And, and they're not in progress and we have to just to me I think we should just acknowledge the reality that we'd like them to be in progress but they aren't. And acting like they are in progress is not going to is not going to make anybody believe it. Right. If they're not making progress they're not making progress. So October fest definitely is making progress. Right and, and that's that's very positive. So we've got a project right now to migrate more plug in docs and we should probably link to that wiki migration page right. Where is my where did I put that sheet is this it. No, this is the old sheet. Just a minute, I've got to go find it because it needs to be linked in here as well. But what we have is a sheet here we go this is the sheet. This is this October fest 2021 plug in sheet, where Deepak Gupta has done one Rajan Singh has done one. I've done a few Vojtek your journey has done, etc. So and dirage has done one. So, so we've, we've actually of the 40 plugins that were selected. We've made progress on five or six already. Yes, that's encouraging. So, so that's one of the projects that's running right now. And, and, yeah, so we've got the, the high, the high use plugins are already migrated, and some set of plugins will probably never migrate because their last release was 10 years ago and they don't have an active developer and they're installed basis small enough. It just doesn't matter. We've got an active project to improve the Jenkins architecture description. I've got to show you this one by the way this thing is a thing of beauty that Angelique Jard has done. You've got to see it in a developer documentation. So in the reference documentation under architecture. Look at this picture. Isn't that a thing of beauty and and it really is an accurate description reviewed by people like Jesse Glick and others to say yeah that's actually and Tim Jacome reviewed it said well hey what about this attribute and that. And, and she's got another diagram just that somewhat like this one right now done in just pure ASCII ASCII art. It, it is just a beautiful thing to look at that and realize oh yeah okay this is right this and to say I actually recognize many of those lines and why they're drawn that way. This is this is really, really cool. It also shows you all the differently it's all the why sometimes it can be so complex to right. Everything is going. I really like this. Yeah well and okay there are things like, oh this optional corporate proxy over here is an entire world of the, what does it mean to be behind a corporate proxy server and how complicated can life get behind a corporate proxy and, and then. Okay, the integration layers of yes you can do API you can do end user and notice this little box up here I've got to zoom in on that. The usage statistics box, this is one that Tim Jacome reminded, saying hey usage statistics actually come from the users web browser. And it's like, Oh, right. Of course and, and so it reminds that hey this is an interestingly sophisticated system. So this is this is Angelique's Octoberfest contribution I, she may she may be frustrated with me because I merged it today I had seen enough comments and enough approval I said this thing's going in I want it there. She's still got to store the source code for it and some other things but I just absolutely wanted that so we didn't, we could show it around it's such a beautiful thing. Really. This is the network diagram. And I don't think the component interactions when has been merged yet or not maybe actually maybe it has just a minute let's take a look. Well, framework extensions. Don't remember where it is actually the quest routing. No, I'll have to go looking for it further. But, but there's a second with actually let's let's find it. That's why we have pull requests. Here. Okay, it's not, it's not published yet, got it. But it's very nice to all we have to do is do a like this. Because thanks to the magic of GitHub and ASCII doc. This is how or render. And this is trying to show the, the layer the architectural layers inside the software. X amount extreme for XML processing various scheduling and models, then the, the page routing framework called stapler. And the communication protocol routing, remoting that's used to talk to the agents web and HD to be both coming through stapler command line. It's yeah. Uh oh. Okay that one needs to be fixed. Or the although no I checked that and I don't think, well I'll have to double check this one. This one may need a link colon slash slash Marco. Okay, so that again shows us where we're at. And this one, let me look at let's grab that poll request. Okay, and there's further work happening by folks inside cloudbies to make even more progress on developer documentation. So, so really delighted with that then make your work on the security documentation. And I didn't put the list of PRs there. But you've got a list of PRs that you're using to guide that work. Right. Yes. Now security docs are an area where Meg has the added benefits that they won't be merged until we get approval from members of the security team. One of the things we've accepted on the Jenkins that I oh side is the security team review is required for things we write in the security section. So you make your point that you need to ask Daniel to approve. Absolutely hold I won't merge anything without at least one member of the security team giving an approval to things that are in the security section. Okay, and is that how it goes do you do the actual merge. They can do it or I can do it. Okay, it doesn't, it doesn't require me to do it. But if, if we for instance take your, let's see where was it. Let's take your. Let's look at your recent stacks. Oh, maybe yours has been merged already know help if I spelled correctly just a minute. Okay, remember, here we go so this is the one that's pending remove the reference to Jenkins one dot X. So, Gavin Morgan and Oleg are great reviewers wonderful to have this one because Daniel said yes is approved to merge and I've merged it. Okay. I would not have merged it because right. If you look there is, oh no it doesn't show it here why not. Maybe this one. No, it should see this should have been labeled if I remember correctly it should have been labeled security. And I thought it was automatically labeled that way but maybe not. So, so what there is is I think we'd put in place safeguards that security team has to review anything in the security section. Okay, 4612 4612. I've only got one PR out there because I realized I had a slight issue but. Okay. See that's mine. Right. And that's where I got the comment to remove the one dot X stuff. Oh, and that's why I just looked into disappearing. Oh yeah and the plus one for a movie this is Tim Jacome is, is, yeah, he's the release officer. He's very, very good well versed. He's not a member of the security team but he is the release officer so he's very capable with Jenkins and Jenkins. Right. Okay, so but now I know why. Now I just went to look and it was missing I've been wondering I was going to. So I don't need to move that I remove that I'll do a poll and. Yeah, possibly with any merge conflicts and then I'm set. Okay. So and you see here it says Daniel reviewed on behalf of Jenkins and in for slash security. This is, this is that code owners thing where when you submit something into a secure one of the security the security tree. Place security info over here or security team isn't secured Jenkins slash security. Jenkins dash in for slash security will be listed over here is one of the reviewers. Okay. Good positive positive thing there and, and onward we go. Yeah, so that's, that's, that's the, I think of that as the, the most active thing right now is Hectober Fest, then the one that we discussed but there is that is absolutely inactive is wiki migration these are the non plugin pages, migrating to, let's see, yeah. So migrating non plugin wiki pages and the problem we see there is that it needs. It's not just. Whereas plug in migration is a mostly mechanical effort. Copy something from existing document place it in a new location create a pull request, do some minor changes, etc. This one. We've hit the point where most of the things that we might bring in that were that kind of mechanical migration are already done. The new migrations need careful thought by someone who is skilled in use of Jenkins and understands its history and its structure, and therefore, we can't just put it as a Hectober Fest project it's not viable. I think it makes things worse when we do that because then we get large submissions that are questionable accuracy and unclear, etc. Do we have a mapping of those to where they would go and specifically I'm when there's pages in Jenkins IO that say you know we need help here that have no content. Do how do we know if maybe some of those there's content available in the wikis. Yeah, and, and so that's, that's one of the projects that needs an expert. We had a beginning of that, but only a beginning, and the, the effort for me that's that's almost a we need to gather a group of three or four of us together, physically in a room in a room, put information on three by five cards and start shuffling and stacking and sorting and prioritizing them. And, and I just, I would love to do that but right now I haven't got the capacity to do it. And so it's for me it's waiting to like foz them or something like that where we might actually get physically together. Yeah, I was wondering is like, man, that sounds like maybe we could break it up over these meetings where it's like, it's time boxed, we can time box it. But like, in that way it's like okay like maybe we don't have a lot of time but like, you know, office hours or something like we're going to take the next like, it's probably going to take a while there's a lot going on and I can assume that some of this stuff is also probably going to be super seated by that. It's going to be super seated by the updated developer documentation. Maybe, I totally agree like I, this is one of those things would be really great to be able to be in person and like at a conference, like being able to do a hackathon, like at the, like I think they've done it before, I've never, I've never been able to go to any of the Jenkins conferences but maybe there's a, we can time box some stuff or do some stuff in these meetings where we just say like all right the office hours this week are going to be focused on sorting or right right small section, I don't know. I think I think that's an inspiring idea actually to consider, consider making a fixed portion of each office hours as processing for some portion of wiki dot Jenkins.io content. Right, because that might be a great way to just say look, we're going to create a giant sheet and we're going to do one row at a time and spend the time we need and then we'll do the next row and we'll see progress by that. And we could actually create issues out of that that would be out there for people to find if they were looking for something to do right. And if, if we're, if the output is something we're confident is worth, worth an issue, absolutely we could. I'm my initial is there, there are things where I fear putting an issue out there, somebody think oh it's now a mechanical guide and mechanical thing I can just do it and then we end up with a lovely copy of something that's got so many errors in it that it's just not helpful. Right. All right, so so the wiki migration good good observation, then the she code Africa pipeline steps improvement project. So Kristen and Meg and Oleg and Angelique all helped as mentors on this project back in March dirage. And what we did was we ran them through a, a series it was a month long project, where these women and at five women in Africa were paid to assist with Jenkins development. And so we ran them through a series of steps where they compiled a plug in modified online help that's inside the plug in added new online help inside the plug in and submitted pull requests. So the project was instructive for us, and certainly for them as well. But there's still an awful lot yet to do on it. So, so those are and but it's this is paused until March of 2022 is the next time we would likely start a she code Africa project again. Okay. So one of the challenges here and one of the embarrassing challenges is that the problem has not been money. The biggest challenge was not getting some companies to donate to fund this it was getting enough mentors in an open source project to be willing to help for the month. And again thanks to Kristen and to Meg for having been willing to do that. So one thing that could we like some are some of the plugins that need this maintained by people who work for companies of the clubbies and others. Is that something that we could go and request the company could you give us a month of mentoring from so and so for this project. We could the last time I tried that it didn't fly. Right. Okay. So yes we that there's that doesn't stop us from doing it in the future. We absolutely can and certainly should ask for, ask for one of the one of the observations for what didn't go well here was, we did not enlist the reviewers so we ended up receiving pull requests that did not ultimately reach the plug in because we didn't have reviewers. So, so yes that's that's certainly part and, and that was one of the things that inspired this sheet in the, in the, where is that she this one. This sheet is specifically because of the things we saw with she code Africa contribute on. I didn't want anybody working on documentation migration for a plug in in October fest that then wouldn't get a code review. And one of these that say will review it's because the maintainer of the plug in replied to me in an email and said yes, I will review a docs pull request and I will release the plug in after having merged it. All right. Now one of those this one is, is the notable exception. I started this one as the experiment before. And it turns out they haven't merged it yet. So. So, any, any questions on the what's in progress then anything's I've missed on what's in progress. I have two questions. Yes. So, first question is like I want to know when you'll be putting the label of fact over first, or in the PR, because until you do that. Only after that will be the contributors will be able to see their request in the head to the first website has been counted. I've, I thought that if the repository was was recorded as a October fest topic like this one for instance. Let's go there and be sure that it is so see this this topic over here for October fest. And then as far as I can tell means that all pull requests accepted to this one. All pull request merged are counted immediately. So have yours not been counted yet, Dirosh. Yes, so it says that total complete PR zero in progress zero. And below that it says, you've submitted have to be fast. Submitted and then the title of a PR that is move documentation to Jenkins deploy plugin. So, after that it says that project not participating. Okay, but that's and so let's look at that one very good question so that that one. What I'm sorry what was that. Oh, I'm sorry I just saying I can give you the link if you don't have all that's okay I've got it I think anyway I think it's this one. Yes. Okay, so this one should have okay it has been merged now and mentioned and you said but you say this has not appeared. Yes, it says the project is not participating. Okay, alright so then what we need to do here is we need to we need to ask him. Do you label this poll request as October Fest, or as October Fest. Fast dash accepted. So that you're so that you're sure to will be credited on the October Fest site. So that's the merged poll request. Thanks for detecting that because I thought that the mention of the word October Fest in the in the text would be enough but apparently, if it's not counting in yours then they need to label that as October Fest. Right, that makes sense. So we might want to do the same procedure for I think all the contributions that we have received a lot. But we also get motivated seeing their full records being counted. And, and I agree wholeheartedly, I think though, and now I'm going to nine we're going to do a double check let's see if I can find it. Digital Ocean. There it is October Fest. Yes. Now how do I find my status. You need to click on start hacking. Oh, start hacking. Okay, thank you. Good. So now it will be refreshed and you can see 10 in progress. And there you can see the status of the PR pillow. Oh, okay, good. So these and so these are interesting update parent. Okay, and this one. Okay, so this one. Let's let's open that one. Because this one is now closed let's find another one though, because I am going to label this one October Fest I am now a, I'm now a maintainer of this plugin I asked to adopt it. And so I'm going to take advantage of my, my asking having asked to adopt it and I am going to edit the labels and give myself a new label called October Fest. By Digital Ocean. We make it. That's a good color. Okay, now back to that poll request, October Fest. And we'll now see if that will eventually be detected. Okay, and then. Oh, that's good. So this one, this one notice it says Jenkins dash in for that Jenkins.io. It matures in 10 days. It's not been labeled October Fest but because the repository has the topic October Fest, all pull requests merge to account. Oh, that makes sense. So, so anything you submit, dear, I was to Jenkins that IO counts towards it. And others the same story, right so now this one node label parameter. Okay, that's odd I thought that the get plugin was participating. Oh, no it's not. Okay, so, and I don't know that I actually want particularly to make it participating because it's complicated submitting changes to the get plugin. But yeah and the others are not, there's not actually enough useful in them to justify it. Cool, that's a much better presentation we've had in past years. Oh, okay, here's a point of pride for me this one is not labeled October Fest but because the docker project has October Fest in it. It's counted. Good. So, did that, did that address address your question. Yes, totally. So, we can do the same thing, like asking the maintainers to put the label for other participants as well. Correct, right. Yeah, so about Jenkins.io you were saying if we submit anything there it will be counted towards the contribution so you were saying about the blog that we can write together so we can do that. Yes, exactly. Well, and, and there it will be important that you are the one who submits it, rather than having me submit it, because that way it shows up correctly accounted for your, you're doing it so I'll likely assemble some text and we can talk together about how we how you submit it. Yes, sure. All right. And one last question is that there is a link which talks about October Fest swag list and it lets out all the companies that are giving out some goodies to the contributors. So I was wondering how we see that as an option, although it's too late for us to participate there. I've shared the link for you. Okay, let me grab that link. So at this point I haven't, I haven't received any commitment from any suppliers who'd be willing to do swag for October Fest, particularly giving the typically high volume that October Fest generates. Okay. Let's see and I don't think that that Alyssa has put cloudbies on this. As an example, no, she is not. Okay. Yes, the number is huge because one of the project starts course to clone get Disney or any kind of blue clone, and they received 300 PR as of now. So, definitely. Well, well, and that's that's something it's let me put an action item for me. Maybe it goes into the docs notes here so discuss with Mark discuss with discuss stickers. So the rubies shipping stickers to top, you know to the first 50 or merged October Fest contributors to the Jenkins project right. So there, she and I talked about stickers because stickers we can place into an envelope and mail, whereas t shirts, the shipping problems for t shirts are sort of legendary. So this was my question. Thanks. Great. Okay. Excellent. All right. Now are there other of your submissions dirage that we need to we need to send reminders on. So not exactly mine. Just one of my friends as you have read from the sheet, Rajen Singh. So, submitted a PR and it's yet to be merged. Okay, well, and let me let's let's just go ahead. Oops, wrong one. Let's pick that. And let's let me just do a reminder to the to the maintainer, because there's no reason we should not remind the to the maintainer that they agreed to do the review. All right, now we got to find out who the maintainers are. Jessica. Oh, Ivan Sugonyak. Okay, great. All right, so let's go back there. Okay, so I've been not sure if it's now. There we go. This is ready. I was ready to review and merge. Could you please be sure that you label the pull request. October fast so that it will count. Or Rajan sings. There we go. Great. And, oh, and I haven't reviewed it yet. Okay, so I still have him a review. Yes. Oh, that looks good to me. Yes, absolutely. It's correct. Approved. Okay, good. Thank you. Sorry, it was it's been six days a week since he submitted it shame on me for not reviewing it faster. What do you do with all your spare time mark. Exactly. That is a very good question make. Okay, so back to where we were. So we've talked about what's in progress with October fast and wiki migration and she code, then what we were trying to do remember that the theme of this, this session was docs without the wiki. So what we do about these set of problems we've got described up here like many broken links to wiki dot Jenkins that I owe many plugins that haven't migrated documentation to get hub, etc. And so the primary focus was on this one. How do we deal with a broken links to wiki dot Jenkins that I owe right now. And so first topic was for plug in docs that's easy. How do we do the work we're doing of migrating plug in docs. That's, that's healthy. It works. We understand how to do it. It's just a machinery thing. The general purpose docs books will just have to. And so here the choices are. Okay, there's there for instance pages that are very, very useful still in the wiki. And the thought was we could just host them at a static location. Eventually, over time migrate them. What I've got right now is I've got more to report here that have a lamir on my team at work is investigating a technique, a map, a technique to map old URLs from the wiki to new URLs in some other location. Small service, something like that that would just alias one thing to another at the web at the HTTP request level. The other idea was we could post the static HTML pages as GitHub pages. Now right now they they are not named the same as they were on the wiki. So, so that doesn't solve the whole problem but it does avoid us having to pay any hosting costs. We don't see the bandwidth charges because GitHub pages host for free. And one of the participants noted they can be the exact static web pages that we have right now. And we could even assign a custom domain like wiki dot Jenkins that I owe to the pages. And that will pick up graphics as well as text. It, it, it will yeah so for example, the. Let's see if I could, I could show it probably best by doing it from my local computer. So forgive the windows command prompt. Here is my local copy and I'm going to jump to, let's look at that ansible page that I was using. There we go, this one. And I'm just going to double click it and here it is, and this is how it would look to the user that's reading it. It's a very reasonable web page styled to look like the wiki used to look. Yeah, nice. So and many of the hyperlink still work. Many of them do not. And that's that's just one of the prices we pay here. So the plug in site for instance this one does work. But the links here that are pointing to wiki dot Jenkins that I would not work unless we put this exactly at the same location as it was before. Here we are, here we are 50 minutes into the hour and I'm still blathering on this one topic. We probably should stop me from from squandering everybody's time here. Yeah, this is a good one. This is a really good one. Okay, so, so that's the those are the ideas but we've got to do some development work to get there because right now, the Confluence, the Confluence data repository is not yet set up to do GitHub pages and even if it were. It's not. It's not, we're not mapped to their correct final destination so everybody's work is good and useful there. So, I propose we get off this thing we've got we've got to do this with the review of the change log we've got lots of other things we need to do in the 10 minutes we have left. Any objections. Okay, so then let's, let's take on the next topic and go look at the change log for 2.316 dirage had you had you had any chance to do any looking at it yet. Okay good so let's look at it together this is perfect then we'll we'll review it as a group here and so this is. Oh, oh dear so I didn't satisfy the formatting even when I did it shame on me. Okay so tell a story first notice this red block here. What happened was last last week when we did the security release. This was out, it was indented two spaces less than it is even right now, and as such was not rendered correctly. Notice that the automated formatting in the change log has pushed it out to more spaces. So it's fixed even more the mistake that I made, but at least the mistake I made was rendering correctly. So we need to look at 2.316. Here's big text everybody. Alright so dirage what do you think bump the spotless maven plug in that should probably be listed as skip change log shouldn't it. Yes. Okay so let's go find the Jenkins core pull requests. It was PR number this, and it was not labeled skip change log but it should be because there's no way a user should care that we upgraded the formatting plug in. Okay, so fix that one. Now the next 5779 update the French translation in the legend. Okay, I don't know what in the legend. So let's go look at that one. Okay, update the French translation what do you think in the legend. Okay read the bug report made that'll tell us what the legend means icon legend, like descriptions for each different icons. Yeah, so it seems like it's another page inside of Jenkins. Oh, I didn't know that such a page even existed so either. So is this an icon map. What is this. Okay so. So now I got to bring up my Jenkins and see how that looks. So I love that there are all these things that were built in that it's sometimes like, there's so many things that Jenkins can do that. Right exactly yeah so that's that's just a thing of beauty okay maybe I should check with my other one. Oh no it's not up either shame on me just a minute while I started. Okay but so, since it calls it legend occur. Oh I see what's going on. Because I was doing some other stuff with Docker. Okay got it. And there it is okay so it'll be up in a minute or two. Okay so update the French translation in the oak so what if we use the phrase in the icon descriptions or in the icon descriptions page. So, I'm not sure make with help first I think the legend is also an official term for this. It is right so it this is actually accurate right it's legend is the sense of it's used on a map to describe describe things like that so it's maybe we just leave it and say yep that's ready to go. Okay so I'm going to go ahead with that we're going to say yes that one's sufficient let's keep it. Next one. Oh, yep, you're right. Exactly. Thank you. Good. Okay, so let's put that full stop in it. Okay, got it. Okay. Display the full plug in name and link when a plug in fails to load. My sense is that one's okay just as is. I missed what you said go ahead and say that again. So, do you want to put a comma after link, or I'm being extra. Okay good question. I was. So, put a comma here after that word. Yeah, so, so my sense was no, but, but it's valid question. Meg or Kristen. Do we need a comment there in the phrasing. I don't think so. Okay, so I that was my tendency was, yeah. Okay, so we, we stay with that one. Now we've got the next one is 5755 better reporting of errors for certain kinds of bugs in computer listeners. No objections from me corrections from others. I might say. Improve improvements in error reporting, but I don't know. Maybe that's just preference. I don't know if it's necessary. Okay, so I've improved error reporting for certain kinds of bugs. Okay, so, so. Just seems less awkward. Improve error reporting for certain kinds of bugs in computer listeners like that. Yeah. Good. Okay. Got it. All right. Next one then upgrade. This one has an interesting complication. The message includes a hyperlink. That is in markdown format. And I don't think that will render correctly because at least here it's it's putting the literal markdown in there. So I think we may have to go in and fix this one afterwards. Although, yeah, so how, okay, maybe what we do here is let's, let's take out the hyperlinks. And then in reviewers. So. In the references. Section of the changelog. Right, because I don't know how to do that. From here. And so what I'm going to do is take this out. Pipeline API. I'm going to just take out the hyperlink. Does that seem okay to everybody? Well, you know where to get it back when you want to put it back. Yeah, that's why I put it down below. Oh, okay. I see. Okay. I just don't know how else to do it to transmit the concept of a reference. And so down here. In the desired reviewers. We've got a note that says, Hey, be sure you fix this in the changelog. Right. Deraj, what do you think? Is that an okay way to approach it? Should we do something different? I think we can do this. This way. All right. So that one. We've touched. And then. 5757 support. Fix. It's a developer fix. Okay. I haven't seen this one. Oh, so this really is developer bug fix. Okay. And we've now reviewed the changelog. So back to this. What do you think? Is that okay? It should rephrase it somehow differently for developers. We need to add, I think the category or type. As developer as well. Oh, interesting. Yeah. How did this not get categorized as developer? What's, what's the technique we use to categorize. Oh, we need a label here probably. Is that one? Yes. So that, thank you for catching that. I had missed that. That is. That was, that's a crucial thing because the text here says it's developer, but the label did not. And so it would not have been correctly classified as a developer. Issue. Good. Okay. Hey guys, I had to do this, but I've got a hard stop. I got to get to the airport. All right. Thank you. Thanks for your help and good luck with your travels. Talk to you next week. I'm getting rid of Tom. That's all. Oh, well, until Tom, we all said hello. Okay. Take care. We'll talk next week. Bye. Bye. Bye. Okay. So that seems okay to you. Dear Raj, we've got that corrected. Thanks for detecting that. Yes. Good. Okay. Great. And then the others. These are items that were, were developer. That were tagged as skip change log. Look through them and see if you spot any that. Are incorrectly classified that way. The security weekly. Do you want that to be counted as well? No. This one is intentionally hidden because it was included already in two dot three hundred fifteen. So this one. Okay. So I intentionally hid this one because two dot three sixteen is not a security release. Okay. Good question. Very good question. Had. Had exactly that conversation here. Let's go there. We had exactly that conversation in the poll request itself. Okay. So this is just a merge to make two, two, two hundred fifteen visible in master branch and later. Okay. So I intentionally hid this one because two dot three sixteen is not a security release. Okay. Now let's go to the poll request itself. Where I think it was Tim Jacob. Should this be in the. No, maybe not. Somebody asked me that question. Oh, I remember. Somebody internal at work. Ask me, Hey, should this be. Should this be in the change log and my answer was no, because it was already in the two dot three fifteen change log. Okay. So didn't that, I think the comments are good. So now we need to hope that there will be one more pull request merged to Jenkins core so that it gets reprocessed. How about we take a quick look and see if there's already something we can say should be merged to core? Is there anything that's marked ready to merge? Ready for merge? Squash merge me. Okay, well, actually we should probably look at these while we're here because any one of these could be merged and let's be sure that they say things that make sense. So in this case, it's skip change log. So that's fine. And has this one already been marked as approved two days ago marked as ready for merge? So I think we can safely merge it. Any objections if I merge it? It's got all the right, yeah, I'm merging it. Yep, sounds good. Okay, good. So now let's go back to the ready for merge. Okay, from James Nord, mark the cookie as secure. Okay, so here's one that probably will be merged. Screen resolution cookie has the secure flag when Jenkins is running on HTTPS. So we need to put a hard stop at the end of that line. And shouldn't it be capitalized as well? Yes, I think you're right. Good, yep. Looks good. Okay, and is this one, see this one feels to me like it should be internal but it really does affect users. So yeah, leave it, leave it. I don't think it should be hidden. Right, like it seems like it should be mentioned. Right, and it shouldn't be listed as internal because users can perceive exactly this. Yes. So it seems like, okay, so let's go through the checklist. So the JIRA issue is well described, yes. There's no external dependency. Okay, are there two approvals? There are Vada and Tim. Conversations are over or it is explicit that a reviewer is not. Okay, Tim marked it ready for merge two days ago. So this one is, oh, but it's still got some checks in progress, okay. Okay, so conversations are over, change log entries are correct. Labels are set, no additional upgrade steps and no need, I don't know about the back port. I'm gonna leave that one unchecked. I didn't get a sense from reading it if James feels like it needs to be back ported. Yeah, seeing this discussion doesn't look like it should be, but or it doesn't sound like it's an immediate origin. Yeah, it's not like it's a security issue. So it's not hot that way. Let's look to see if the build is making progress. So why did this? To be like out of tag and it kicks something off because that's recent, right? That's very, that's just seconds ago and I don't understand why because I didn't think that I changed anything. And yet, yeah, absolutely. So let's see if, oh, wait a sec. Maybe it's, yeah, look what happened. It detected that these are changes to the pipeline shared library. And they do change the build, they could change the build and therefore they need to be reevaluated. So two hours from now we can hope that Tim will merge this. Yeah, I was like, ooh, that's kind of a, it's like unfortunately not something we're gonna be able to do right now. That's an expensive, expensive thing that, well, actually I wanted to try Launchable's product or several others to see if we could reduce the time we waste running tests that aren't going to tell us anything new. Okay, but this one we're okay with the description as it is. Do you wish that worked for you? Okay, great, okay. Then let's look at other labels ready. Okay, update the French TAN translation. This one I just don't know, but I trust that Tim or somebody else will approve it. It's got two native French speakers who reviewed it. Angelique and Vadek are both native French speakers as far as I know. He could have a lot of approvals I think. Oh, good, okay. So, and it's running the checks again. Okay, so when Tim wakes up, he'll see things have been through the checks. Okay, two approvals, conversations done. We've reviewed the change log entry and it looks good to me. Proper labels are set, yes. And it does not need upgrade steps and it doesn't need to backward. Okay, good. All right, so we reviewed that one. We have to remember this, by the way. This is the reviewing ready for merge is a great way to get ahead of some changes that are likely going to merge. Okay, so Jenkins fix ongoing build from disappearing from. Okay, help me with the phrasing on this one. I know it needs the hard stop. That's the easy part. So. Wait, okay. Fix the ongoing. Who's like, yeah, you're like fix disappearing ongoing build from build history. Right, or is it make the ongoing builds remain visible in build history? Do we take the word fix out and phrase it as something that's not fixed but rather make it visible again? Yeah, say display ongoing build. Ooh, display, yeah, there you go. Okay, so display ongoing build in build history. Is that already? And then we could say where it was a regression in 2.314. Cool, yes. Yes, that's a good way to indicate that it was a bug. Yeah. Yes, yes. Does that seem reasonable? Yes, yeah. Okay, so then we have two approvals. Conversations have stopped. Change log entries we've reviewed. Change log labels are set. No additional upgrade steps are necessary. And no, if the if on backport is not. Okay, okay. Okay. And I think we're ready to commit that to say yes, update that comment. Okay. Great. And that should also help us. So this gives, this says Tim is Tim can do merges in the next three or four hours of the things that are ready for merge and they'll be in 2.316. And we think they'll look good in the automated change log. Oh, and this should let us see already that our changes we'd earlier done are now, yes, there it is. Good. Okay, so that one that we merged caused this to be regenerated. And here it is. Excellent. Thank you, everybody. Yes, thanks. Thanks very good. Okay. So I think we've covered the topics that we had intended to. Maybe Dheeraj, if you would be, oh no, actually Kristin, you were the one I wanted to beg for help on this one. If you'd be willing separately to look at the steps in this thing, could you stand for me to do a five minute quick overview of this? Yeah, sure. This thing that I'd like your, I'm sorry to be going so badly over but this was one I really would love your help on or insights on. Yeah, this is cool. Cause I think that this would be, I'm looking at this as like, man, this would be such an interesting thing to run as like, maybe in the future, like in the month or so before. Okay. Yeah, say like workshop. Right. So you're like, you know, like do, if you wanted to, cause I know I mentioned you wanted to like roll it out. I was like, man, it would be interesting to run this before like a tribute thought, like a tribute thought or like if there was like any type of conference, like you could, we could roll it out as like a getting started program but it's good workshop too. Okay. I'll let you talk now. Exactly. See, this is even something we might consider using this for Shekot Africa instead of, instead of the pipeline thing or in addition to it, because this is also an end to end experience for a new contributor. So they can start from, gee, I've never done any of this and go through and by the end of it, they have made significant and valuable contributions to at least one Jenkins plugin. And they're in fact, by the time they reach the end of this, by the time they reach page 18 or so, they are really ready to adopt the plugin. Because they've been through four or five pull requests, they've shown clear progress, et cetera. I mean, it's that kind of, oh yeah, this really is, you could stop anywhere along the way, but if you go all the way, you have done enough steps that you probably are ready to adopt the plugin. Great. Okay. Okay, so let me put a link to this into the notes. And the crucial thing for me here was that what I was trying to do was find ways for people to contribute. And what I realized was there are a series of steps that you can take on a plugin that modernize it. And these steps are needed in many, many cases because the plugins are in various states of maintenance or non-maintenance. So the first story is choose one of the 100 plus plugins that are up for adoption. And that's, you can find those plugins here. And if we pick one that's up for adoptions like the schedule build plugin, it has a label over here, adopt this plugin. Here are 110 plugins that are up for adoption. Pick one of these. And that's interesting to you and start doing these steps. First, be sure it has a Jenkins file. Okay, next, update the parent palm to the current parent palm version. This one already gave me improvements on the one I adopted schedule build because with that, when I did this one, I suddenly was able to compile with Java 11. Whereas prior to this, I had to use Java 8. So I've already, with one step, improved the plugin. Then update the base Jenkins version. And this one is where Jenkins, the current palm now has this concept that you declare what the base Jenkins version is, the minimum Jenkins version you'll support. And we have a page on Jenkins.io that recommends a specific base version number. And right now it's this one, 2.289.1. So again, that one now has narrowed the breadth of things versions they're supporting and is helping the plugin maintainer. Let's make life simpler. Okay, now that it, and it just keeps going from there. Okay, so next stop was enable more spot bugs checks. So by default, spot bugs is enabled. I turned it up from the default level to threshold low, effort high. So maximum involvement of spot bugs. And okay, once again, if you now fix any warnings that came from that, that's helped the plugin. Update the SCM URL was one that many people may not be aware of. GitHub is obssleting this protocol. They are deprecating it. And so we have to replace it with HTTPS. It's work, somebody's got to do it. Then use dependabot to automate dependency updates, enable incremental delivery, so that we can test builds easier. This one, this last one, Kristen, the convert AP, this was one that I discovered while watching Sasha do work on a plugin. He was doing these steps on. What he showed was, oh yeah, here's this big plugin. In his case, he was working on the white source plugin. Inside that plugin, there is a dependency on the AWS SDK, 20 or 30 megabyte JAR file that gets packaged inside the plugin. But guess what? We've got an AWS SDK plugin now, an AWS SDK API plugin. We could shrink the size of that large separate plugin by 10 or 20 megabytes, by depending on the Jenkins AWS SDK API plugin. Oh, wow, yes. And instead of, so then if there's ever a security problem in the AWS SDK API, all we do is fix it in one plugin instead of having to re-release a whole bunch of plugins that include that thing. So this was one, oh wow, I hadn't thought it. So these kinds of things, then enable continuous delivery, migrate documentation, improve pipeline documentation, any other modernization ideas that come to your mind of things where, oh, when you're modernizing a plugin, you should do this. And I was like, oh, the spot, like try to think of something. Yeah, and that's okay. I was like, you know. So maybe what I should do is instead, if you would be willing, put it in the back of your mind. Okay, sure. And if something comes to your mind, please send me a note saying, hey, Mark, I thought of this because what I would like to do with this long table of contents thing is what I envisioned is creating a tutorial on jankins.io, a developer tutorial called modernizing a plugin. And put each of these steps as a separate little page that says, hey, here are things you can do. And then if we get bright ideas of I'd like to do this thing, I think we should add this. We can just add them to the list. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Yeah, I think any way to be able to get people to, because it is intimidating to just see plugins up for adoption. I don't know if there's even like a better, like it's good that we have a whole bunch. I don't know if there's some that are like better candidates than others as well. But yeah. And that's a good point, certainly. I have to admit, I was very careful when I selected the plugin that I wanted to adopt. Sure. Right, because there are a hundred of them to choose from. I went and chose one that was relatively small, low volume that I thought might be interesting to me and yet was not going to endanger other people. So I didn't pick Apache HTTP components, for instance, because that thing is used by pretty much every installation of Jenkins anywhere. That's why I'm like, I wonder if there's any page that would be, figure out if your plugin is critical to some other plugin or kind of like figure out where how your plugin fits with everything else. But I'm not sure of a good way to do that right now. Well, and certainly there is. So let's, one of the things we can use is we look here and we see, okay, what are my dependents? First, what's my install count? Six-digit install count probably means people are using this thing heavily, right? So if you say I want to be fairly inconspicuous, I don't want to be very visible, then choosing one with a six-digit install count is not going to be quiet. That's not low visibility. Exactly. The other is the dependencies tab here gives us a hint of, oh, here's what's required. And here's, here are the things that might depend, here's how you would, no, there isn't, oh, no, so it's just, this one's actually got relatively few dependencies. I'm impressed, I expected many more. Me too. Actually, thinking about this, do we have a thing how to install Dependabot or any of the other? We do. Okay, good. As long as it's in the documentation. This one, automate dependency update checks, is Dependabot. Now what I don't have, that's a good point, you just thank you for saying it, I don't have enable release drafter. Yes, there we go, that's a good one. So let's put that one in here because enable release drafter, we actually have a video that shows how to do that for changelog automation. Perfect. And we can already use a lot of the presets from different Jenkins plugins, so that will save it, but it's important. Yes, right, exactly. Well, and there's a release drafter page on the Jenkins CI slash .github repository. And there's a video on the Jenkins YouTube channel. And the writing on the GitHub repository is really very clear and very helpful. Actually, let me just put it in there. Jenkins, let's see, github.com. Jenkins CI slash .github, I was just reading this today and it was really truly impressed. .github, release drafter.adoc, here is this beautiful document with table of contents that describes how you enable it. It has links to videos that describe it, everything. And that was where, where was I taking those notes? Oh, I was in this document, wasn't I? Here, okay. Okay, good. So we just added one more section. All right. So again, Kristen, if you're willing, if ideas come to mind, by all means, please, please add them or add comments or suggestions there. And then Dheeraj, you and I will try to do this. If you're okay helping me with this, we'll try to craft this together as both a combined blog post and a tutorial. I would love to, this is definitely really interesting. Great, thank you. So we'll, and I think what I may do, I wonder, Dheeraj, maybe you and I want to collaborate through a separate repository and then because then I can give you right permission to it and then we'll grab it together, get it together and I'll send you a link because I've got a little Git server that I run on my own network. So I may send you a, here, you can log in to this location and we'll collaborate there. That's interesting, even though I do have experience like different repository. This will be, if nothing else, it will prove to me that Giddy is every bit as easy to understand as GitHub is because I use this Giddy server all the time, it works great. So I'll send you a link to it and we'll start there. That's awesome, sure. Okay, all right. So Mark and Dheeraj create the tutorial and the blog post for the modernizing, we get modernizing a plugin, tutorial or modernizing a plugin. Okay, all right. Thanks all of you for being so patient for such a long and terrible docs office hours. Any other topics we need to go over today? No, nothing from my side. No, nothing from my side. No, me either. Okay, don't forget to register to vote in the Jenkins elections and we'll call this done for today. Thanks very much. All right, thanks. Thanks, everyone. Bye-bye.