 Okay, so again, welcome to Liquid Margins, and today we have a couple of wonderful guests, Beasley Knost, with Roger Williams University, and Will Mahoges from long-site. And at this time, I'd like to ask our guests to say a little something about themselves. So Beasley, why don't you take it away? Well, I teach at Roger Williams and also usually do one class at the University of Rhode Island. I teach writing and the course that I've used annotations with is this summer. It combines literature and philosophy. It's a required course, a freshman-level interdisciplinary course that all students are required to take five such courses to graduate. I think, I mean, if I'm just talking about myself, I think that's probably it. Okay, hi everybody. I'm Will Mahoges. I'm the Director of Training and E-Learning Initiatives at Longsite, and I'm also the Sakai Community Coordinator for Perio. So I kind of have two hats that I wear on my community hat and my Longsite hat. I do quite a bit of training and documentation, and we've been, Longsite has been talking with Hypothesis about partnering on maybe developing a more tight integration with Hypothesis. And so I've been doing a little bit of checking out how the LTI works in Sakai. So if you have technical type questions about how to set it up, I'm the person to ask on that front. So I guess that's pretty good for now. Okay, thank you. We also have Nate Angel from Hypothesis. Nate, would you like to say a bit? Yeah, hey, and I wanted to let you guys know I'm taking over for my colleague Jeremy Dean today to moderate the discussion here. I am super happy to be at this show in particular, because as some of you know, I have kind of a long history with Sakai. I see many old friends in the guest list. Welcome to everyone. I haven't been working with Sakai as much lately, but it's a big part of my past and I'm a big supporter, and so I'm really, really excited to do this show today with Beasley and Wilma. And so I'm calling in from beautiful sunny Portland, Oregon, where it's not sunny, which is not too surprising, because that's actually how it normally is. And I wanted to kind of start off the show today by asking our guests a little bit like how things are going, because here we are probably staring down the face of another academic term. And I'm and we're in the middle of a global pandemic, you didn't notice. And then there's a lot of other stuff going on in the world too. And I'm just wondering to ask like, you know, Beasley, how are you doing? And are you you feel ready for fall? And how are things going in your neck of the woods? I'm feeling fairly ready. You know, because I sort of the last minute, we offered an online summer course for incoming first year students. So I just had a small class of five. So I've been teaching, you know, yesterday was the last day of class. And it sort of helps me feel like I'm not relearning. I'm just going to be transferring what I've been doing. Roger Williams has worked really, really hard to make sure that students can live on campus. And we're doing flipped classrooms. And we'll never have an entire complement in the room at once. So yeah, I was the biggest challenge for me will be like learning the dance when I'm in the classroom, you know. But you know, I got to tell you, I don't know if this is the best time to say it, but but using a hypothesis or the annotations in the summer class was really helpful. Because I had five brand new students who'd never taken a college class. And they were never going to they're not going to meet face to face till, you know, for another month. So and for them to be able to ask questions and for me to be talking to them in the reading, I think was really valuable. It created a sense of being together that we wouldn't otherwise have had. That's a that's a really great point. He's I'm glad you brought that up. Now I'm my colleague, Jeremy, often talks about how we can think of the reading as a place to meet more like a place instead of a book or a thing. And it sounds like you really had that kind of sense of community this summer when you were using it. That's great. What about you, Wilma? How are you? How are you feeling about the fall? Well, I'm fortunate in that my work is usually virtual. So this hasn't been a big change for me. But we've certainly been hearing, you know, stories from people in the trenches and all the institutions that we support, you know, kind of gearing up and sort of planning for all sorts of different scenarios, whether it's fully online or hybrid or or some mixture and, you know, moving start dates and end dates around. So so yeah, we've definitely gotten a sense of, you know, kind of the uncertainty that's out there for everyone. And we've been doing everything we can to kind of help make at least the the hosting and support piece something that they don't have to worry about too much. But there's always, you know, that that training aspect of learning new tools and incorporating new tools into classes that maybe people aren't used to teaching online. So so that's definitely something that we hear from a lot of our clients. And we try to help where we can. Are you hearing a lot of that where folks that are either new to online teaching or are using tools that they haven't used before? Well, we've been getting questions about tools that are maybe new to an institution. So maybe they're setting up things for the first time, like hypothesis or other tools to enable different types of interactions with students. Because, you know, a lot of the teaching that went on early in the pandemic was sort of this, you know, hurry up and just put a bunch of videos out there, you know, kind of, you know, live zoom sessions as a stop gap. And now that people have at least a little bit of lead time, they're really trying to incorporate more interaction, more kind of dialogue in their teaching. Because at least we've had a little bit of preparation for what might be to come. So so I think we're seeing a lot more of that of incorporating and leveraging tools that may be, you know, one or two people on campus have been piloting, but now they're kind of spreading it out to a wider group of folks. So it's actually kind of nice to see that sort of distribution of the educational technology and have it meet, you know, a real need for folks. So I think that's kind of exciting if that's a silver lining anyway, to expose more people to the tools that they have at their disposal. Yeah, that's interesting, the silver lining inside the dark clouds of the pandemic, right? Yeah. Well, so this is kind of an unusual show for us, because we have, you know, Beasley and Wilma really, you know, have different kinds of practices and work. You know, Beasley is a teacher, and I'm sure Wilma does a lot of teaching in her work as a trainer and so forth, but, you know, has a more technical aspect to her work. And so we have, you know, both kind of a pedagogical teacher viewpoint here and a more technical viewpoint. And I want to take advantage of that and talk a little bit later about kind of the technical integrations between hypothesis and Zaki, but I wanted to start out by talking with Beasley a little bit more deeply about how you've used annotation. And so it sounds like you used it in the summer course, and then you're planning to use it again in the fall. Could you describe a little bit more detail about those courses that you're using and how big they are and what kind of readings and sort of annotation activities you either had in the summer or planned to use in the fall and how those worked for you? Yeah. So for this summer, I tend to give them because 18-year-olds don't, I try not to ask them to absorb many pages of, say, Plato or Hegel. So I tend to give them like one to three pages of like Foucault's penopticon, that's like three pages. But they come from very different sort of backgrounds, and it was really helpful to have annotations so that I could insert little background notes, but also learn what they didn't understand. It didn't even occur to me that they wouldn't know the Plato was, and I should have known this, it's the kind of thing I would just rattle off in the classroom, but they didn't know where Plato was and where Socrates was. We did the Euthyphro, and they didn't know that was ancient Greece. And so I was able to answer that question and see how well they were understanding, especially with the, we got to Hegel. I mean, one sentence can be very tricky and it's, so I'd see how they were reading it and then I would respond to that and clarify, and very, very useful. Yeah, so I mean, at this point I wouldn't imagine assigning a reading that wasn't in a book, you know, that they had to buy without using annotations, especially for that, the literature and philosophy course, but then this fall, and I've been contributing to the planning for the department-wide online course, well, it's rooted online. We'll have this, you know, hybrid classes, but the course for, it's the very introductory writing course, the main text is going to be the letter from Birmingham Jail, and first students are going to write a summary, and then they're going to write a rhetorical analysis, then they're going to choose a 21st century text that's on a related topic and do a rhetorical analysis of that, and so, you know, I'm just going to urge that we all use hypothesis with that, and I think, you know, when they're first just understanding it, the first read through and writing the summary, be good to have one copy of the text, and then when they get to the rhetorical analysis, give them a fresh copy, because the first one won't be so full. Yeah, that's an interesting question actually about when a text gets sort of full of annotations, I think that's the right word, and so obviously one way that that can be sort of handled is, let's say that this letter from the Birmingham Jail text that you plan to use is in PDF form, I'm not sure if it is or not, but it might be a PDF and it's uploaded to many different course shells in Sakai presumably. The way that the hypothesis integration works with Sakai, each one of those courses, the students in that course and the teacher will be annotating in a private group, and so their annotations won't be visible to all the other course groups that are using it in Sakai. Now, of course, I could see that you might actually want kind of cross class dialogue to happen, you know, where people from one class are, you know, annotating together with people from other classes on the same document, and so to use the LMS integration, you could set that up if I think this would work and Wilma could probably let me know if you maybe had a Sakai class or project site or class site that where everyone in all the different classes or sections belonged and you could assign that reading there, then they would all be able to comment it on there, and then they could move back to their sort of smaller class sections when they wanted to annotate just amongst their own group. So there's a little bit of trickiness depending on like what community you want to be annotating on the text. You see what I'm saying? Okay, yeah, yeah, and I'm a newcomer to how to do all of this. I went to your workshop, what, in May or June? With the online learning consortium, maybe? Yes, yes, I think so, and that's what, you know, decided me. Yeah, yeah, I would like it also if small groups like groups of four or five had their own copy also. So I want to explore how to set that up. Is that possible in Sakai? Well, that's something that we could maybe explore a little bit later with Wilma too. I see that she might even have something to say about right now. Well, I'm just, I haven't actually tried it, but I would imagine there's a lot of places in Sakai where you can restrict content to certain groups. So if you place the link in a location that only that group can get to, that would effectively restrict it to those folks. So you could do that in assignments, you could do that in lessons or discussion forums, wherever you wanted to place the link. So if I can just cut in so Erin, who's also with us, she had a response to that. And she said you can do this with digital fingerprints, creating individual copies for each group. And she offered up a link in the chat. Yeah, I mean, we're a little bit down in the weeds now, but it's sometimes funny how hypothesis features also sometimes get in its way. And one of those features is that when you're annotating on a PDF, even if people have different copies of that PDF in different places, the annotations on it will find each other. And it uses that, it's able to do that because each unique PDF has a fingerprint on it, a digital fingerprint, which is what Erin's mentioning. And so if you, if you want people to annotate the same text in a PDF form, but not see each other's annotations on that PDF, you have to take one extra little step, because it's designed to kind of bring things together. And so if you want to break them apart more, you have to make different copies of that PDF that have different fingerprints. But I suggest we don't get too down into the technical weeds here, because our support team is ready to handle anybody with questions who wants to get into that more, including you Beasley. And there is a link there in the chat. And so we could follow up on that later, rather than dwelling too much on those technical details. But I will say that I think the thing that you're hitting on Beasley, this idea of sometimes you want very broad based annotation, right, a whole community, maybe all the incoming students working together on a single text and kind of building that community. And then sometimes you want that a very small group of people to be focused on a given text, even something that I know Wilma is interested in, just a single teacher and student annotating together on top of a work, which could be the students work, for instance, in the sense of giving feedback on student writing, or on a student selected text. And so one thing I wanted to bring Wilma into the conversation a little bit here, because, you know, because Sakai is so highly configurable, I think that there are possibilities of using hypothesis in Sakai that we don't see in other learning management systems, where there might be the possibility, for instance, of like Wilma said, there's so many places in Sakai where you could restrict access to content. So I'm thinking that there might actually already be the capability in Sakai of having a student upload a reading that then can be shared with either a small study group, or perhaps just the teacher. And I wonder, Wilma, you may not have had a chance to explore this idea very much, because I'm kind of throwing it at you right here. But does that resonate with you? Do you think there's some possibilities there? Yeah, I do think that that would be possible. Because again, if the student is uploading the work, usually with the LTI connection, it doesn't actually, the people don't show up in there until they access it. So if a student uploads their, you know, draft of a paper, and the only other person that can get to the link of that draft is the instructor, then it should just be a private annotation between the two, unless there's some other way for other people to access this uploaded assignment. I know that the ability to annotate back and forth between a student and an instructor is one that we've heard from folks that they'd like to be able to do that more, whether it's iterating on a draft of something or just grading a work and having the students be able to respond to the instructor comments. So that's definitely an area that we are interested in being able to provide more functionality in that space. Yeah, and that's something that I think hypothesis and lung sites really want to work together on is, you know, exploring all the different affordances that hypothesis and annotation could have inside Sakai. And I'm Blair had mentioned that maybe student pages could work too. And I think that that's true because, you know, web pages, there are essentially web pages can also be annotated with hypothesis. And you know, one issue is it could be that only the teacher has permissions to make hypothesis assignments. And so that it might be that the student provides the text, and then the teacher kind of assigns it back as an annotation assignment just to that student. Anyway, there's some details to work out there. And I think that's something that alongside in hypothesis will be exploring. So stay tuned on that. Yeah, Jennifer, we are going to take a moment to have Wilma show, show how how hypothesis integrates with Sakai to and I just wanted to before she we have her do that I just wanted to ask VZ one more time if so this in the course that you're teaching in the fall is that also this sort of writing in philosophy oriented course like you had in the summer. No, this is like composition. It's the basic composition course. Students can opt to take it. The required one is sort of the next step. But a lot of students opt to take this one. That makes sense. And so that's probably a course that has many sections across the school. Yes, yes. That would be really great to see even just one annotation exercise be brought into that like in the Birmingham Jail example or something like that. So that everybody was kind of building that in from the beginning because I think there's a way in which a student can kind of build reading and digital literacy by using annotation, especially in conjunction with, you know, a teacher like you beastly who's helping to guide them through this act of reading. So yeah, and I think because they're first semester first year students to and we're not going to be as present with them in the classroom, that's something, you know, like annotations really makes a difference in terms of getting them relaxed and involved. Yeah, a lot of that is used to the idea of reading and feeling relaxed and brave about it, right, too, to be able to make some comments. Well, I know people are, we could continue to talk about the interesting pedagogy side of this and that's of course where I love to dwell. But I think people are interested in sort of seeing some of the kind of technical underpinnings too. And so why don't we, Wilma, if you're ready to do this now, why don't we give you a chance to probably want to share your screen and show us around a little bit inside Sakai? Does that make sense? Sure. Yeah, let me go ahead and do a screen share. Okay, so you guys should be seeing my screen now, correct? Yes? All right. So I'm logged in as the administrator. Typically, your admin will want to install it at the system level if it's something that you're using across campus. So I'll show you that part just real briefly. I've actually already got it set up on this instance of Sakai. So we'll just kind of preview some of these settings. But when you go into the administrator workspace, there's an external tools tool that you can use to set up all sorts of LTI tools for your instance. And so if you were installing a new one, you would go to this link and configure it. I've already got it on here. So I'm just going to search for it. And let's see, we'll go to this one because I know I named it so I could find it. It's LTI at the end. So when you install it, there's a bunch of different settings. And I just want to call out a few of these because they're the ones that are sort of important to make sure that it works the way you want it to. So the tool title is what it's going to show up as in the list of tools that faculty choose from. So you just want to have it something that faculty will recognize. So if they know the tool's called hypothesis, then that would be your tool title. That's kind of the generic name that's going to show up in the tool selection list. But one setting that is important and we found this out recently, it's really important to allow that tool title to be changed because that's what allows the instructor when they're creating an assignment in their course to change the title of the link so that it's a unique title for grading purposes. So that makes it talk to your grade book correctly. So you want to make sure that that's allowed. Now some of these other things are optional, like if you wanted a custom icon, if you want to let people change the icon, those are up to your admin. The button text is one that I usually allow people to change because again you want to be able to modify that title so that it appears with the correct title when it shows up as a button. The tool status would be enabled and this server I have it stealth because I'm only using it in a couple of sites. So if it's something where you're rolling it out to just select people, you might want to stealth it and then just add it to those courses specifically in terms of making it available as opposed to having it just there for anyone to select. But if you're rolling it out to everyone at the institution, you can go ahead and make it visible for everybody and it'll show up in that tool list. This information, the launch URL, the launch key, and the launch secret, those are all going to be provided to your institution by hypothesis. So you'll get that information from them and it's unique to your account. So that information will vary depending on your individual subscriptions. Scrolling down a little bit, again there's a lot of settings in here, not all of them you need to worry about. But I do want to make sure that you check these send user names and send email addresses. That's how it knows who the people are that are in the tool and can create those accounts. And you do want to, if you expect to grade it, you want to check these boxes next to the grade related items as well as the roster. So I usually just check all four of those things under services. And this first box here allow it to be launched as a link. That's typically true. So that's a safe one to select. Some of these others you don't need to worry about too much. But this last one here allow the tool to be one of the assessment types. This is actually a new thing that's in the newer LTI changes that have just been implemented in Sakai. And if you select this option, particularly in Sakai 21 and up, it will actually let you make it an LTI assignment type using the assignment tool. And I can show you that if you guys are interested. Right now this server that I'm on is running 20x. So this is not Sakai 21 that we're looking at right now. But I did record a short video clip that shows what it looks like in 21. I didn't want to trust the QA server to not go down on me because they restarted about this time of day. Maybe if you could share the link to that video, Wilma, that people could take a look at it in their free time. Yeah, I haven't uploaded it yet. So I can share it out afterward. We can distribute it to everybody. We'll email everybody who registered and so we can share it. Okay, yeah, that'd be great. I can do that. So launching a pop-up, usually I will let that be something that people can change, because sometimes people like to have it launch in its own windows so that you get just the editor or just the annotator. Sometimes people prefer to see it framed in assignments or wherever else they are in the course. So I usually leave that up to the instructor and allow that to be changed. The rest of the items you don't have to worry about. You don't need to worry about LTI 1.3. So those are all the settings that are really important when you're setting it up from the admin area. Now once it is set up, then individual instructors will be able to just select it when they choose a tool or when they install something. And actually, you know what, let me just, I'm going to make it unstuffed so I can show you guys what that looks like in the list. Thanks. This is really helpful. We'll just kind of like basic walkthrough, especially because you know, it's too high so well. It's been so long since I've actually worked with it day to day that I fumble around a lot more. So I really appreciate this. No problem. All right. So now that I've made it unstuffed, this makes it available for anyone to select. And I'm going to go into a course here. So you would find it in Site Info. This is where you choose the tools that you want in your course. So if you go into Manage Tools here, any LTI tools that have been installed system-wide like that will show up under External Tools. So you can see there it is, the Hypothesis LTI. And I've got it in here a couple different ways because I was testing some stuff. So it would appear here. Some of our clients actually like the LTI tools to appear in this upper list. And that can be done with some properties settings that would be specific to that institution. So that's a minor thing that we could customize for you if you prefer to see it in this list up here. Otherwise it just shows up under this expandable list of external tools. So once you've selected it, if you select it here, what it does is it places it in the sidebar of the course. So it's going to show up over in the navigation menu. So that's one way to add it. As you can have it be one of your tools over here on the side. So you'll see this one, the external tool. This is one that was added in that manner. That's usually not the preferred way though. Most people prefer to add it in lessons. So if we go to lessons, that's where people will typically put the assignment right within the flow of their content. So there is an external tool here as well. So when you add content here and you choose to add external tool, you'll see any external tools that are already set up. And you can choose the one that you want. And here is where I can change those settings that I left, allow editing. So I want to call this, let's call it, I don't know, report. And I don't want to debug it. That's just for testing purposes. I'm going to let it open in the frame. I'm not going to launch in a pop up, but I can always change that if I choose. So let me go ahead and just pop that in there. So then it's going to take me back to my lesson page. And I see my link to the hypothesis assignment. And if I click here, it's going to take me right into that setup process. So this is where you would select the web page or PDF that you want to annotate. Now you can currently select from Google Drive or you can enter a URL. So if you wanted to use an item that's in resources, you can do that by pasting in the URL of the resource. So if you actually select something from resources in your course, I probably should have had the resources tool active in this course. I didn't think about that ahead of time. Let me just turn it on real quick. All right. So resources is where you upload your files in Sakai. And let me just upload a PDF. And then we'll go grab the URL for it. So upload a PDF file. I'll drag a file around. Let me just find one. And while Wilma is looking for it. Yeah. Sorry. I should have had a file ready to go. I didn't think about it. I'll go into a course that has a file. Let's do that. That'll be easier. New problem at all. I just wanted to invite people to ask questions in the chat or the Q&A. All right. So here's some files that are already in resources. And I'm just going to look to see, okay, you want to make sure if it's something that you're sharing across courses, which is what I'm doing right now, that it's something that's public. If it's within the site, the people in that site should have access already because they have rights to see it in the course. But I'm making this one public because I'm sharing across courses. So if you go into edit the details for an item, you can grab the URL here. And this will allow you to link it in hypothesis. So if I go back to that report that I was working with, and that was on my lessons page. So I go in here. And I'm going to paste in the URL that I got from resources. So then it places that item here and allows folks to go in and annotate on top of it. Now what we would like to do in partnership with hypothesis is make it so that you don't have to go find that URL. You can just browse and select. So we want to make that not a pain point that you have to go and copy and paste. So that's kind of on the roadmap. We're not there yet. But that is something that we want to work on making much more smooth so that instead of just the two options that you'd have a third option to browse and resources and select from there. But that's how you would add it on a lesson page. And then the other place that you can add it in Sakai 21, as I mentioned, is within an assignment. But I don't want to take too much more time. So I'll take questions. So if anybody has any questions. And as people get their thoughts in order, thank you for doing that, Wilma. And we apologize for how pesky it is. Wilma is showing there how to get a file that's in Sakai resources. We will make that. We will work to make that easier. So the one thing that Wilma didn't get a chance to show there is also the grade book integration. I actually wanted to throw it to Beasley to ask, in your classes so far, are you actually grading the annotation exercises that you've had people do? Or do you think that you would? I haven't done that yet. I'm not sure. I think I would look at level of participation. I always hesitate to grade things like asking questions and giving your thoughts on first reading or something. But yeah, I could, you know, that would actually be a useful contribution to a participation grade. So sort of more like the same way that in class classroom discussion might sort of count? Yeah, yeah, especially, you know, if half your class is online and they're not physically there just to make sure that they are doing the reading and making some comments. Yeah, I lost my mute button there for a minute. Yeah, that makes sense. And we've heard a lot of other teachers kind of come to the same kind of conclusions that you can use annotation as a way to kind of make the students reading of the text visible in the sense that if they leave a trail of breadcrumbs about the reading, it kind of makes that the fact that they did do some reading kind of visible and then also engages them with the reading more and each other. But, you know, turning it into a kind of perfunctory grading exercise where you're like, you will get 10 points for each annotation or something, you know, might make it more sterile and sort of the same way we see discussion forum grading sometimes kind of degenerate into that sort of, you know, pro forma, you must make one annotation and respond to two others kind of thing. Yeah, go ahead. I was just now thinking, though, in the writing classes when they're doing peer review, that might be a way to grade the extent to which they really look at thinking about and comment on a classmate's grade. Yeah, there could be, you know, some kind of rewards for peer interaction or something. I mean, it sounded like it happened somewhat organically in your summer course where you built that sense of community with annotation. And I wanted to ask you another question, Hubeasley. Did you ever make use of the annotation's capability to have videos or images or equations, which may not have fallen into your class purview, but rather than just text where students were maybe making other kinds of annotations with media in them? No, and I didn't know that we could do that. I would have done it, though. I mean, I have, they were reading something about, the theme was coolness, and they were reading about West African sort of philosophical ideas related to coolness. And there was written by an art historian. So there are references to the rumba and I could have put films where they could see the kind of drumming or dance and music that was being discussed in the text right there. So you just put a link to YouTube in the... Yeah, YouTube and Vimeo, and now Flipgrid, all you just embed by just pasting the URL to one of those resources directly in the annotation and it will embed automatically. And then for an image, the image needs to be available on the web somewhere, so it needs to have a URL. So it's not so much uploading it from your own computer, although you could put it in Sakai resources like Wilma just demonstrated. So adding an image can be a little more tricky unless it's something that you've already found on the web and then you can just get its URL and paste it in with a little image tag. Well, I'll definitely been using that. Yeah, it could be great for a kind of literature exploration too to enable students to think about imagery related to the text instead of words, right? Yes. Well, I know we're running a little late on long on time here and I could see Franny is getting nervous in the background there. Franny, did you have any other questions you wanted to surface? So I just had one question for Beasley. Do you find that more students, you know, when you're using collaborative annotation in the classroom, do more students quote and quote raise their hand? Especially, I'm thinking of those shy students who typically would sit in the back of the classroom. Do they feel emboldened to speak up? Yes, I think that they're more comfortable asking. What does this mean? One student started out asking, what does this mean? And then began looking up definitions and putting them in the annotations themselves, which was a nice sort of progression there. But yes, I do. There was one student who asked them at the beginning of the class what they thought was most successful from their spring semester online experience, just to get a sense of what kind of learning they all preferred. And one said that she really liked having synchronous meetings where the teachers told her what was going on and explained everything. And that student was the one who said I asked them to tell me their impressions of the annotations, because I told them I was going to do this. And she was the one who said it really helped her to read and think about what other people in the class are thinking. I think she was just the most insecure and least likely to launch into her own thoughts. And yeah, it made a real difference. The other comments were that it was really helpful. It was cool. And it works great. Makes a lot of sense. Those are the things that they gave me to pass on to you. Oh, that's great. I love it. Yeah, I mean, I would think it would build community and just as that shy student might see somebody asking a question that maybe isn't that brilliant, isn't as brilliant as they might have thought everybody else in the class is, because everyone in college feels like a fraud. So maybe when they see everyone else is sort of a frog too, not really, but you know, that it emboldens them. Cool, that's great. Thank you. Well, as Nate said, we are running out of time here. We're actually a little bit over. So thanks everyone for hanging out for a little while. We'll keep this recording running for a bit. So if you have questions, ask them in the chat. One of us will answer in the chat and then all of the resources, this recording and the chat and the slides will be available after the fact. And this was such a great show. I want to thank our guests and I want to give them also a chance to say goodbye. So Beasley, if you would start and then Wilma follow. Thank you. Yeah, well, I said thank you for asking me. I mean, I'm a brand new user and I've learned a lot about what I can do today. And yeah, I think it's so handy. I'll definitely keep using it. Thanks a lot. I'd also like to thank you guys for inviting me and for some of your great questions. And if you think of another use case of how you want to link it or what you want to do with it, let me know because it's actually one of the things that I like to do is kind of figure out how to do things that maybe are sort of edge cases. So if you're interested in exploring something that isn't immediately obvious, feel free to reach out and let me know and we'll see if we can figure out a way to make that happen for you. Great. Thank you. I also want to thank Nate Angel and everyone else from Hypothesis who was here. And also a huge welcome. I mean, thank you. Sorry, to our attendees and come back next week when the show is going to be talking about going back to school and how we engage faculty to use collaborative annotation. So again, thank you everyone and come back next week.