 I'll call to order this meeting of the Waterbury Select Board on Monday, the 16th of October. First item on the agenda is to approve the agenda. Do I have a motion? So moved. Second. All right, moved and seconded. Any discussion? I have a couple of proposed amendments. First on consent agenda, adding a couple of liquor licenses. The first is for farmhouse flowers. It's a commercial kitchen permit for 2007 Guptell Road. The next addition is Arandos Mexican Cuisine LLC, a second class license and tobacco license for 1 River Road. And Amps LLC, a one-time occasion permit for 5 Stow Street for 1028. And I would also add discussion of public works recommendation on stop signs at 840. Okay. Do I have a motion to accept the amendment? So moved. All right, seconded. That was a question mark. Seconded. All right. We're voting on the amendment to the agenda. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right, now on... Do I have a motion to approve the amended agenda? So moved. And seconded. Second. All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? All right, we have an approved amended agenda. The next is the consent agenda as amended. Do I have a motion? Motion to approve consent of the agenda as amended. Second that. All right. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? No. Okay. The consent agenda is approved. Next is the public discussion. Anyone that would like to address any item that's not on the warrant agenda, please come forward. And I would ask that you restrict your comments to three minutes or less. Yes, Mike. I just want to give a public acknowledgement of appreciation to Skip Flanders and Bill Woodruff. I was at the dedication for the Edward Ferrar's. And both Skip and Woody gave very... I learned more about Edward Ferrar than I ever thought I would ever find out. And it was actually quite interesting. So it would have been nice. It would have been better attended, probably because everyone was hoping for the solar eclipse. Yeah. But no, I really think, you know, they did a great job. And just to get a grant here that they did that. All right. And thank you for attending that. I missed it. I appreciate it. Anything else? Chris? This is the way outside the box of what this meeting is about. But I just want to say that I condemn the acts of hatred that are taking place across this planet from one end to the other. I don't know what's unraveled our sanity in the last couple of years, but it seems to be getting worse. And for somebody like me, believe it or not, it brings a lot of anxiety to me. I just hope that even in our own community, I'm seeing much more disrespect than I've ever seen before. And I quite honestly don't know what to do about it. And I just wanted to voice my opinion about it. All right. Thanks. It's concerning. Any specific incident that has provoked? In our community, you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So you had a guy pass me this morning up here by Ben and Jerry's and he almost ran two other people off the road that were coming the other way. I caught up to him and he had words. He was late. So to sacrifice or put in danger other people's lives simply because you couldn't get your ass out of bed in the morning. It seems a little extreme, you know? And I'm seeing things like that everywhere. You get on the interstate in the morning and the disrespect that people driving on the road is outrageous. And having a CDL license, you know, you pay attention. You have to pay attention all the time. Right. But yeah, just the way people are treating other people and I don't know if it's the stress of, you know, the economic dimes or issues to do with race and religion and other things like that that are prompting it or what it is. But it is becoming disheartening. Yeah. I'm sorry. Sorry for your experience. I'm trying to improve respect within our community to the extent that we can. Another note, I'll just mention that I had a great conversation with Jane Willard about the restorative justice program. She's been serving on the panel. It was formed under the auspices of the village of Waterbury several years ago and continues to function. She gave me a great update and we'll try to get that on the agenda for maybe the first meeting in November when the coordinator from Montpelier will be able to join us this morning. What was her name? I don't have the name of the coordinator. Who do you spoke with? Jane Willard. She served for many years on the historical committee. She continues to serve as a six person panel for restorative justice for both Waterbury and River Valley. What director is? Carol Platt. Apparently she's brand new. All right. Any other public comments? Very none. We'll move forward. Initial discussion for the future format of nominations for the natural disaster preparedness committee. We have five vacancies. We have a couple of candidates. And one of them is sitting here with us. Anna is interested in consolation. Okay. Mr. Malter, would you mind coming forward? Sure. I do expect the other candidate. We're going to vote me or a person. So we just want to be conscious of the time. We can come back for it. Yeah, absolutely. We'll let you know if he is expected. Okay. All right. John, would you mind introducing yourself and giving us a brief summary as to why you'd like to serve on the preparedness committee? Well, John Malter. I've been a firm believer in the service of all my life. I think I have some background that would be relevant to the natural disaster preparedness committee. I worked for the state of Vermont for 17 years before I went off on my own in the consulting world. And in that position, I wound up as the director of the Waste Management Division. But earlier on, I was the on-scene coordinator in the Oil and Hazardous Materials Spill Response Program. And once I went off into my own world in the consulting field, I was also the author of Vermont's Survival Crisis Management Plan back in the Dark Ages. In 1994, one of my major recommendations was that the state EOC should be moved because it's in the flood plain. I was a little ahead of my time, I guess. But yeah, I think I have an awareness of a lot of things. I'm a person who has always had an interest in history. And when I first started working for the state, I was the flood plain zoning administrator as one of my many hats. And I got interested in the 1927 flood. And I read a lot about that and collected a lot of memorabilia on how and why and all the issues associated with that. But it's more than just flooding. And I guess what I wanted to say really quickly is we're looking at a lot of different potential natural and technological issues that could be out there. And I know there's probably a great deal of stuff that's already been produced here within Waterbury through the fire service, the town, and the light. But I'd like to just be able to offer assistance where I can and see what's out there and do whatever. And the price is right. Yeah. Other questions from the pollager? Yeah. What drove you to go into the field that you went into? Probably 1968 driving across country and crossing the Cuyahoga River and seeing it on fire. You've got to see it on fire? Yeah. And that was one of those seminal things that were like, no, this is not the way our lives should be. And that really, I mean, I was a geology major and I was going out to a geology field camp. But this kind of really turned me on things. My master's thesis at UVM was on potential problems of oil pollution on Lake Champlain. Which everybody thought was things associated with the barge traffic and the oil tank farms. But the major contributor was actually runoff from oil from the roads. Really? Inefficient to cycle motors, engines, and the light. And it's just a combination of a lot of things. And I've kind of grown up in it. I was involved with the EPA while I was working for the state in doing some of the work that was when did spilt become a spilt? I mean, this was kind of the early days. I mean, I'm older than glaciers. So I've been around for a while. Mike and I'll give you a run for your money. Right. But it's, you know, it's something that if I can make a contribution to the community, I'm willing to try. And I guess that's all. I'm not here for any glory other than to work with you guys. Perfect. What glory could there be? Nothing greater. Anything else from the board? And he has a license plate for recycling. That's just like that. And the reason for that is because I wanted to get everybody in Vermont to get something made with recycled material. And I got the state purchasing office to buy recyclable aluminum. For the plates? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. For learning something. That's just a bunch of old Budweiser cans, huh? Exactly. But they have paper. Anyway. So do you have, I'm kind of curious, have you got a sense of how often the group with me, what the charge, I saw that was to research and develop the best program possible. But what are you guys really looking for? I mean, obviously a volunteer group isn't going to do the great American novel. We'll be out there to assist. That isn't on the list yet. I think Cain put together a summary of the charge. I don't think I have a paper copy. Give us a rundown from your memory. I got it on the phone. Yeah. That's right, Tom and I talked about a coordinator. I can skip over that part. Draft an update to the emergency response handbook. This was all approved by us. I'm trying to find something that like best drives at home. Alyssa in the meantime. I was going to give us a, we'll just say, I think John, you did a really great job identifying. And it was so great to hear that like, you know, we have town fire service and you know, we have other efforts going on. And I think recognizing that though flooding is not the only disaster, you know, personally, as someone who wasn't in this community during Irene, it was an opportunity for us to reflect and say, we did some things really well and we have some systems that really work. And we built some systems that actually worked well in this case. And how do we do that moving forward in case of flooding? Or as you pointed to have the ability to respond in other directions. So I think some of that review and synthesis is also going to be part of it. So in addition to future planning, saying like, okay, kind of what worked and how do we position ourselves going forward, particularly in those gaps, you know, whether it's like IT or whether it's the fire department's really good in the first, you know, X amount of time. And after that, they really can use support for this particular scope of work. So I think also just hearing your knowledge and interest as someone who's worked in the community and who probably got phone calls from us about those hazardous waste collections. You would be a person to say, you know, this is what likely like the resource alliance could do, but we could really use helpers doing the pickups from houses. So how do we make a plan for that? So next time that happens, we can do it quickly. I think the biggest thing is communications all the way around. No matter what we do as a group, we need to keep communications open. There should be no judgmental issues associated with this. It's just important that people talk and that anything that's developed, you have that recognition that it be maintained and updated because that's the difference of making something that'll work and something that's just going to sit on the bookcase. And that's part of the charge is the update and maintenance. And like having at least a group of brains who know where it is, how to get to it, and you know, can also pass that knowledge around because things have changed since Irene and technology has changed and communication and response has changed and trying to continually keep that up to date so that it's not, you know, oh shoot, that was great, you know, 12 years ago. Well, and as you can tell being from the generation of the glaciers, I'm not like Cain where I go on my phone, have all my notes down there. I do use computers and everything, but it's not, you know, my world is more analog than digital and that's just because I'm older than her. But you know, I'm willing to try and work with folks and I welcome younger folks that are specialized in that. And if nothing else, I can offer perspective. Well, I think that's part of it too. There are a lot of folks in this town who have the same perspective and experience as you and how do we make sure we include them? How do we make sure we have something available for them in that response if not everyone's going to go on Facebook, you know, how are we reaching out? So that type of perspective is going to be really key, so I appreciate you bringing that. And I think it's going to be something that the groups are going to form and going to figure out what they're going to, because it's a new committee. So I don't think it's, you know, we have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven that they're going to accomplish. I think it's going to be, you know, we have a general task that, you know, that's not just dealing with flooding, dealing with all sorts of natural disasters and natural preparation. And then you guys figure out a way, how many times do you want to meet quarterly? Do you want to meet, you know, once a month? You know, you're going to figure that out. And I don't think there's something that, you know, we had something, came figured out something a little, I think you had something that they would start meeting monthly, I think. Yeah, but it was monthly until we decided that we could go quarterly. Because, you know, we're going to get our C legs. Because I think what's going to be important is to see what information you have for inventories of various stuff, whether it's parking areas that are above the floodplain or who's got certain kinds of equipment that's available that can be called upon. Oh, there's just a lot of things out there. You're summing yourself, John. But it's like you've listened to our past three meetings. You're saying I'm serious about the study. Music to our ears. Anyway. Thank you. And a number of people, particularly Danny and Alyssa were very active along with Cain. We're very active in coordinating the response to the flooding in July and put together an after-action analysis, which may serve as sort of a basis of information for a guide going forward. I work with Bob. The dumpsters are? I mean, so sorry. Cain, do we have different terms of office for volunteers serving on this committee? I can't remember, to be honest. I think we've said three years for now, mirroring the select order. Yeah, it was like an exact... It's like a select order. Do you have a preference for how long you serve? I'm here. I love it. If I can help, like I said, I enjoy what I do with the Alliance. We had a great collection on Saturday. So we've got a lot of stuff out of people's basements. Nice stuff. That's for another time for me. These are very... Excellent. And how many cornball teams are here? I can't make it. I'm serving food. Okay. Sorry. I've got a pretty good lefty toss. Any other questions for John? All right. Thank you. We'll be, I think, continuing to look at the candidates, and then we'll make the vote as to who's going to be appointed. Sure. Okay. Thanks. Good to see you all. All right. And I believe our other candidate was Forrest McDonald. Yeah, just emailed him to ask him if he was having log on issues. He told me he'd be joining remotely. All right. We can wait for him then. In the meantime, what's your preference? Do you want to take the vote on John or move right on to the conservation commission? Oh, Annika, she's here. I know we can make a motion for that. Maybe all at once. All right. Anna Black. Hi. I'm on board. Hi. And you've expressed interest in joining the conservation commission. Yes. Would you mind just taking a few minutes and explain us some of your background and why you're interested? Absolutely. My name is Anna Black. I grew up in Stowe, but only moved to Waterbury in April. I lived right down the street and love it. I wanted to join, or want to join the conservation commission partially because I think that my background, I could be very helpful. I am a lawyer here. It's not full in French. I did a lot of real estate transactions and title research and all of that. I also am on the board of Stowe Landtrust and have been for the last five years. I'm actually currently their secretary. So I know that we do have one project in the pipeline for the Shootsville border, which is great. And I was thinking about it. I don't think that there would be any conflicts. I think because we work so collaboratively, but of course, if there ever was any question of anything, I'm the first one to take a step back. I just really, since we've moved to Waterbury, it was sort of a ha-ha moment of this is where I really want to be and just love this community and want to do whatever I can to help out. I don't know if you guys also saw my letter. I was like, I'd also like to join this and this. We'll see how many appointments we can make there. That's what my schedule is. I see you're not looking for anybody to help out at the library, but if that opens up, I love the library. There are separate jurisdictions, so you have to apply to them. I proposed t-shirts. I was like, can we please get library t-shirts? I actually think it's friends at the library, because it's totally random. I took one of those child things that they have that it's like, what do you know about the library? I put in your first name. I was like, it's a free bus, but I would love t-shirts. I'd love to be a fairy. Anyway, back on topic. Questions from the board? Yes, Mike? Welcome. I can speak as a charter member of the conservation commission when I started to form a chair of the conservation. I think I was on the conservation commission for seven or eight years. Thank you for your interest. I know they're kind of in a little bit of a downswing in terms of participation and every bit of help. I want to... I would like to hear your impression of the balance between environmental protection and development. Sure. Yeah. And that's definitely something that I've had to think about a lot as it's something that, for the Stolan Trust, we just redid our whole plan, our whole strategic plan, which is like a five-year plan. And certainly having grown up in the area and seen how much it's changed, housing is definitely an issue. I mean, I think it's really, really important to preserve our natural spaces as much as we possibly can. One of the things that I love most about Vermont is that you can go outside and just kind of wander off and have quiet time outside. I think that's really important for mental health and the health of our whole environment. But I think that it actually really can be something that we can work sort of hand-in-hand with. I don't think it's an either-or situation of helping there be affordable housing and basically trying to make sure that we're on the same page because being a conservationist isn't necessarily saying, I'm anti-development at all, but being somebody who does development, you want to do it in a smart way that's conservation minded. So you want to make sure that there are enough green spaces and all of the things that we can do to work together as best we can for everybody. Thank you. Other questions? I'm curious if you had the opportunity at all to sit in or listen in on any of the conservation meetings that also fly. I haven't. I did have a couple of emails with their current chair when we were supposed to meet up yesterday, but I had a stomach bug, so I'm kind of getting a little bit of a breath. No, I'm not really. But I did read over their bylaws and kind of look at all the information on the website. And it kind of goes hand-in-hand with what I've already been doing. And I just, yeah, I think I would love to be able to help. I think I have some ability to do that. Great. Any other questions? All right. Anna, thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. Finishing our discussion, then we'll move on to the next one. And I actually do have to run, so I apologize. Okay. Find out our deliberations. Anna, while you're still here, we have one appointment that would go end in 2024 and one that would end in 2025. Do you feel strongly about time? Whatever makes the most sense for you guys? I'm wondering if I read any of them. I guess I have one question on that. I guess my one question on that is, are there starting back-to-back term limits? Like, if I did 2024, I couldn't restart? No, you can. Okay. Whatever is most logical for you guys from a planning perspective? Thank you. If you're willing to serve three years? Yeah. Love it. Absolutely. I'm here. Any term limits? Many of our commissions. No. Okay. Thank you all. Is there a question about the terms? All right. Michael was asking if we have time on that one. Have you heard back and forth? Unfortunately, I haven't. All right. Was he the one who also applied for conservation or other committee a while back? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's a name. You mentioned that. I'm here kind of filling in for Marcy. Lovell. Who. In an application. Yeah. She just unfortunately had a. A conflict where she couldn't participate in tonight's meeting. So I said that I would, as an existing conservation commission member, I would like to have Marcy come and answer any questions if you had any. Unfortunately, she's not available to do that herself. All right. She did submit an application so we can use that. And in the meantime, do you want to just speak to her candidacy? Sure. Yeah. So I've known Marcy for quite some time, but more recently got re-engaged with her. She's been a member, but also through the lens of the shoots, the whole wildlife corridor. So we, we live kind of inside of that. She's on one hill and I'm on another. So that's my personal experience. And then as I've been interacting with her on this discussion topic, it made me really aware of how much legacy understanding and research and background that she's invested to make sure that she understood all aspects of the topic at hand. And as I started to join the commission, I got more acquainted with Billy and, and Billy too had had some interactions with her and they've all been very positive when we both support and sanction her, her involvement. And he unfortunately couldn't participate either. So I'm kind of being the spokesperson for, for both of them. To say that we do support her, her nomination and participation. And she is available as you're thinking about term positions. She's open for each other, whichever is available. And it seems like not only is she interested in participating at length, she's also, I believe the same sentiment that Mike had said, we've recently had to kind of look at the engagement level of the commission members. And that was something we spoke very pointedly with Marcy about, and I believe Billy did with Anne as well. And she's willing to roll up her sleeves, if you will, and do what needs to be done as it relates to our priorities. That's great. Questions from the board. No. No, thank you. Yeah, thanks for being here. Karen, did you say there are two, two year positions open? And she would be willing to serve for two years? Amy? She was open to that. Yes. All right. Well, sounds like she's getting a fairly good ring endorsement from a current board member as well as the chair of the committee or commission. So I guess if there's no more questions, we can move on to the final candidate. All right. Amy, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Under the desk. We're going to pause for a technical argument. Under the table. Under the table? Under the table somewhere. This down here. I just moved it for a second. Someone was the same. I think it's just the projector. I think it's on, but it's not. We're on, but we had it for something. Don't worry about it. It was just a tape. I will look up. It was a jiggle something like we learned that. We don't have a consultant using slide. So it was the case in the other meeting. Okay. All right. Let's just take up the force. He did submit a letter to us. Rather short email. And it's submit a application form. He put a form, by the way. Yeah. Danny. It's working. We'll just take a second to read over his letter to us. Okay. Anyone care. Discuss any issues that we might have with the force. Can this thing. Yes. Okay. Not an issue or say. Don't like to show up. But as far as this committee is concerned. A background in data analytics. It's going to come in handy. I think that's a that's a skill. That. Well, I hope we have people of all skills and backgrounds on this committee. This is one that I have been. Someone who can read data better than I can. Just not well. So I'm not selling myself high on that in that regard. But someone who can do this is something that we're going to need on this committee. So I think that's a big upsell. We can see us. Excellent. We just can't see that. All right. So if anyone cares to raise their hand, please just speak up because we can't see you on the screen. I'm talking to people. Yeah. And I spoke with data Alan about some data opportunities that could also help out this committee through a group called Fulcrum that had some flood data that they might be willing to share with us. Sounds good to me. Do I have a motion about the candidacies of Mr. Malter and Mr. McDonald? Yes. I would move to appoint John Malter to a three-year term on the natural disaster preparedness committee began to appoint Forest McDonald to a one-year term on the natural disaster preparedness committee. I second that. Okay. The motion has been made and seconded for the discussion. Again, the openings are either for three or one year. Is that right? Yeah. How many three-year positions are there? It mirrors the select board. Three. Three. Three out of how many? Three out of five. Five. Five out of five are three-year positions. Yes. All right. And do you want to offset those or are you going to have like three from the start? If we had three that all started like today, then they all be sunsetting at the same time, which may not be ideal. My rationale in the motion is given the two candidates we have before us this evening and Mr. Malter's extensive experience in the community, I would have pointed into a full three-year term starting today recognizing we could stagger future terms. Right. And I think Forest seems to have great experience, but seeing as we weren't able to speak with him directly, start with a one-year term, which would give the option to re-up after a year. And for future appointments, we could work on the staggering as you indicate. Sounds good to me. Any further discussion on this? Bearing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Sorry, lost. Any abstentions? All right. Congratulations to Mr. Malter and McDonald. And now I have a motion on the appointments to the conservation commission. I move to appoint both Anna Kulak and Marcy LaValle. LaValle. Thank you. To the two vacancies ending in 2025 on the on the conservation commission. I have a second. Second. All right. Moved and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All the papers say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any abstentions? Congratulations to both of them. Thank you for all of your help on this. May I ask a quick question? Sure. Any re-posts going forward and continue to recruit, so to speak, for the open positions just because they're open. There's not like a time period. No. In fact, we have open positions. We still have our remaining open position for the conservation commission. We have three remaining on the natural preparedness committee. I believe there's an opening on rec creation still. So, yeah. Anybody listening in or Lisa, if you are there, those are notes that can go out to the public who might be looking to serve. Right. Yeah. I have a question for Karen. Have you seen any kind of with our new process that's a little bit more formal? Any pushback on that? I don't want to go through all that. Okay. I have four. So, no, I haven't heard anybody. No. People will require, you know, if they've said something. Okay. I had a pretty short week last week to be honest with you. I didn't hear three days, but I didn't receive any calls or complaints about the process. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. We did have Forrest joining via Zoom in case you did want to ask him a question. Forrest, I apologize. The board can't see you because of technical issues, but they can hear you. Hi, everyone. How's it going? Great. You're appointed. Yeah. Maybe you want to talk about how excited you are about being recently appointed to the. Man, I didn't prepare a acceptance speech. I am really excited. I don't know how much my background was covered, but I am a Vermont native who recently moved back after about 10 years living on West. My wife and I are up on Howard ab by the, the cider mill. Yeah. And we, we just moved back in April of this year. So just looking for opportunities to get involved in the community. And my background, I'm a senior manager of geospatial analytics for T mobile. And I also have experience with earthquake disaster response mapping places like Turkey and whatnot. So yeah, this sounds like a fun opportunity for me. Yeah. We haven't had any experiences with earthquake. Probably should be preparing. Yeah. Hopefully we make it a bit longer than you have those. Well, welcome aboard. And thank you for volunteering. Kane, have you determined when the first meeting is going to be yet? I was waiting till we had people on the committee to decide. Yeah. I'll decide right now. I have not decided. Okay. It will be in an email. All right. So Kane will be coordinating that forest. And he'll be in touch as to when your first meeting. I think the initial star indication is that the meetings will be monthly. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Hey, thank you for joining us. Yeah. All right. Unless we have other candidates to discuss, we will move on to the initial discussion to format a future town meetings. And I'll just start by saying I don't have a particular agenda on this. It was an issue that came up earlier this year, noting that we had a lot of participation during COVID when we couldn't hold the traditional in-person meeting. And some people noted that the traditional town meeting on the first Tuesday in March, which starts at 9am in the morning. Not everyone has the luxury of attending because they have to work or they've got other things to attend to. And so we said that we would address this going forward. I think we've made the determination that for this coming year, we will have the traditional town meeting because we don't have time to exercise a charter change, which would be required to change the town meeting. But that we would like to start the discussion and see how people feel about it. Alyssa. Well, Karen made a face on the last one. So just to say out loud, I guess I would say I agree with the point you just reiterated on behalf of the board. There's certainly welcome dissent, which is just to say we are holding two informational sessions for the process of the town of Waterbury having a charter, which is our separate ongoing conversation for local option tax and appointment, which is just to recognize like two, well, one's during a select board meeting, but a rather, you know, somewhat of a to do or just recognizing it's a larger municipal change have, you know, intended for this December. So while hypothetically maybe timing wise, we could hold the special town meeting need to change the format of future town meeting. Right. Just to clarify your articulating, we think that might be a busy schedule. I just would say I would agree with that in terms of planning to hold traditional town for meeting in 2024 in March. Okay. Does anyone have an opinion either way? I invite first the board, but then also Rivers of the Public? King. I've had a strong opinion about this for a long time. I think Tuesday election day and nausea was ridiculous at this point, but I think that is the only, the only opinion I have one way or the other regarding town meeting. I think town meeting is an incredibly important part of Vermont's democracy, but definitely holding it on a Saturday might make it easier. Okay. So you're saying that you're in favor of holding an in-person town meeting and not going to stray that Australian ballot like that's where he has, for example, but changing the timing to make it more continued? Just changing the day of the week to make it more convenient. Okay. In-person meeting. All right. Yes. Mike. As a lot of you know, I've had strong opinions on this. I do strongly believe in democracy, and as much as, yes, there's been more numbers by Australian ballot, do people really know what they're voting for sometimes? I really sometimes question, you know, people go and they just, just vote. And I think at town meeting, whether it be on Tuesday of town meeting day, whether it be an evening meeting, whether it be a Saturday meeting, as Kane said, I think that at least gives people a chance to ask the select board questions. It ferrets out things. And I always say, as people, as a informed citizen of the community, if you can dedicate two to three hours of your time to participate in town government, I don't know if, I think, I don't necessarily want to have people who are not invested in their community just flipping a lever. I guess we don't have levers, but you know, you know, something. And I just, I feel very strong, I feel very strong about the tradition of town meeting, whether it be, as Kane said on a Saturday, whether it be, I know, I used to live in Bristol, you know, 40 years ago, and they went from a day meeting to a night meeting, and they had increased attendance. I think that could be, because I think you're going to have just as much problem on a Saturday, people have busy schedules, they want to be with their kids, are they going to show up on a Saturday? I think people are much more apt, I think, to come to a evening meeting. And I think since we have moved to separate the town business from the school meeting, we have enough time in the evening, I think, to get through business. The only thing that you miss by that is have, you know, some non-profit serving a lunch, which won't give you that opportunity by having an evening meeting. But I don't know. I don't think they could serve a late dinner. You could potentially have a dinner before the meeting. So I don't think that's, you know, really a detriment. I just believe in the in-person process. Okay. Thanks. I just want to think about one, we're talking about the people of our town and work on not making assumptions that if they're not there, it means they don't care and they can't take, so people are forced to choose whether to put their jobs in jeopardy to leave work and they can't be there. They have small children and they don't have childcare. So just because someone isn't somewhere, we want to be super careful not to assume it's because they don't care and they're not invested in our community. The other thing is when we talk about democracy, we want as many people being a part of it as possible. Of course we want them as informed as possible, but we don't want to then actively limit who's voting just because they didn't show up to the meeting. Just because they're not there doesn't mean they're not highly informed. So I never want us as a group to try to limit the amount of people participating in our town's democracy based on their availability. Also, I'm not advocating for Australian ballot yet. I might, but remembering that if we go that way, it doesn't mean we're not having that in-person meeting. We can't. We can have it on a night. We can have it on a Saturday. We can have those just like other town. We're doing the informational meeting to ask questions to get informed, to be a part of the conversation with the Slack board, and then have the vote by Australian ballot. So it doesn't need to be one or the other entirely binary. It can be a combination of the two. You're just not having that floor vote. So remember that there are multiple options even if we decide to make a small change. No matter what we do, it's going to be imperfect. If it's on a Saturday, if people don't have childcare or they work at a breakfast at a restaurant, they can't come to Tuesday night. They don't have childcare or they work at a restaurant. They can't come. So we're not going to get it perfect, but I think our goal, my goal, I don't want to speak for all of us. I hope our goal is that many people as possible participate in the democracy. I guess like building on what Danny said too, I think this is really positive in terms of like iterative and just recognizing there's things we could change or tweak this year. So like one is if we're sticking with 9 a.m. Tuesday, I mean I don't know what the tradition has been, but like we can offer childcare. That's something we have to do at my work. So maybe it's partnering with the children's room or others and making sure that we're offering that and advertising that when we're encouraging folks to come out. So assuming we're staying, I think that can be a like again regardless of any changes that do or don't happen. I guess the other thing, building on what you said Danny about like same thing, my bottom line is having more folks involved. You know, floor discussion at town meeting aside, which is a way for folks to engage that I think, you know, I value and welcome. It's figuring out that like backing up the process. I think like part of why we wanted to have this discussion tonight is also talking about like at town meeting we're coming with a proposed budget. And I mean, many of you have been on the board longer than I know that we iteratively go through preparing that budget. I know Tom has talked about having it earlier, but figuring out how do we have that engagement earlier when there's more time to really make substantive changes. Because I will say like at town meeting last year, you know, it was my first time on the stage how exciting, but ultimately like there was discussion, there was dialogue, but things were kind of like proposed and voted down rather than, you know, having space for more nuanced conversation. Not saying that couldn't happen, but I just think that's another piece of this puzzle again around regardless of what format we have on that day and where we get to just something we all can think about like how are we doing that. And I don't know, you know, is it our survey, you know, is it going on by line? I don't I don't know what it is, but to me like that's the end goal and a piece of that is what town meeting day itself looks like, but a piece of that is also what happens before that. Okay. I absolutely agree with you, Alyssa. But also to Delavo, you said Danny, is there a way to do a hybrid, to do in-person and Australian? No. Well, or what Dan suggested. You would be voting in person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You would still have informational meeting and then you'd still have the core, you know, everyone gathers in the gymnasium and has and talks it out and you still vote, it's still town meeting. You can't change it. Right. Sure. I guess what I'm trying to say is how do you essentially, I guess honors not the right word, but it's the word I'm going to use, honor the tradition of town meeting while modernizing it. That's the million dollar question. Yeah. Great question. Any answers? No. Chris. I wonder if there's some information out there as to any other town that might have tried this and I guess my concern would be this, a couple of concerns. If you can change the date and it's a flop, you have to maybe change again. Do you start to disenfranchise people and drive them from many interests of being part of town meeting? I know Morrisville, I believe last year voted their budget down twice. If you go the route of Duxbury where they have an informational meeting, but you can't change anything and then the vote gets voted down or the budget gets voted down and you have to go back to the drawing board, redesign the budget over another meeting. I'm just wondering if the impacts of that have an Australian ballot is actually going to make things tougher for the board in the municipality and eventually drive people away from wanting to participate. There's no perfect answer to that. I'm speaking for everybody behind here tonight. You either are dedicated to being involved or you're not. And I may have said this before, but I decided a long time ago that one day I might miss or the few hours I might miss from work or whatever it may be. What took place at the government in the town that I lived in? It was important enough to me. Can you move closer to people in the community? It was important enough to me to not miss it. Because the impact of what's being voted on from a budget perspective may impact me more than the few hours I missed at work. That's the way I was looking at it. So there's a lot of things before you dive into simply making a change that you might want to look at before making a you know. And it could go either way. You could find that change in the date and time. You start to get late at night. People like me in the construction industry, you know, people who have certain time frames on. A lot of people can't stay up late. They just can't wait through it. That's my thoughts. Thank you. Appreciate it. Sorry. Michael. Michael Frank. Hi. I spoke about this a little bit at Town Meeting Day originally. As we talk, I think I heard, couldn't hear Chris as well earlier on when he spoke about people's reactions and things. And I actually saw him, I think, pulled over by Ben and Jerry. Anyway, about where things are. Town Meeting Day is where we can come with disagreements or not knowing what the answer is. I've stepped into Town Meeting Day not knowing how I was going to vote on something and went back to the debate that can be with informational meeting and Australian ballot. But look at our town and some things that happened. In the Village Meeting the police budget was cut by half, I believe, I was not a Village resident at that time on the floor. And it then affected things and led right to the merger. A floor vote a motion by I believe I wasn't there. And a floor vote there led to solving a problem that Waterbury had been struggling with for a very long time. Back and forth and recisions and all that stuff. And I feel like a more part of it, why does the town need a dump truck? Why does the select board spending making numbers up $100,000 on a truck? They don't know what they're talking about but the meeting I say that or something like that, right? We're asked the question in a nice way and we're like, oh, yeah, we do need that and yeah, I'll go for this, right? So, you know, it's little things almost always what's voted on is what's proposed or pretty darn close and yes, it's a budget framework, right? So things change with the budget we have very few direct democracy things left and I think we already have a hybrid system already where we vote on officers right by Australian ballot. So we do that and I'm actually surprised that Ducksbury went from all floor to all not but I think it's really important the day could be on Saturday it was mentioned different times I understand no matter where we move it there's different parts I understand what Danny said about making sure different people are involved and someone not being there doesn't mean they don't care they might not be able to be there and I look at one other day going back with the merger how many people were there that one year about the police budget and the merger, right? The place was packed full for that vote so when something really important people do come out would work soon and that was amazing was packed full so anyway I'm a big proponent of Town Meeting Day and keeping that discourse I think it's very important. One question for you Michael you're participating right now via Zoom what would be your thoughts about allowing people to participate via Zoom at Town Meeting? I'm on Zoom now because it also allowed me to listen to it when I was coming back from my kids at Karate and eat dinner while I listen to the first part enjoying so there's that great part I believe in person I believe in person is extremely important for discord and it I think raises the quality and people will say things here to this phone that they might not say in person or say in a different way so I think in person is important for that and there's technical logistical things of verifying someone is who they are or not are they a valid voter yes we don't have a checklist until meeting day but you know it could get to that point right if you had to right if you went to an actual paper ballot on something but the neighbors are checking neighbors okay well thank you for your input do you have a preferred day Tuesday Monday Saturday I agree with the whole history of why election days on Tuesday because the agrarian society and traveling into town and all that is hilarious and old that said is what we have yeah I would I like the day better than night because I think people might be a little less testy too if the meeting goes on that's late and people are tired but yeah Saturday Tuesday you know whatever I used to be a town used to be a state employee I got the day off now I'm not I make sure I either take the time off or the hours off I have flexibility that others don't too alright well thank you for your input any other questions from Michael not from Michael though Michael I love that you're helping us decide you know to have this conversation no I just wanted to because Chris made me think that it's really important I think we said it and I want to say it again for the benefit of anybody watching listening and for Lisa we're starting a conversation it is something that I think most of us have been approached about by people in town and it's our job to listen and have these conversations nothing might change a tiny thing might change and might change in an enormous way this is the very beginning there were two outspoken people who were able to attend tonight that's it that's all the input we've got so far it's really important that we're going to listen to as many people as possible get as much information look into what other towns are doing we'll be able to go through this year and see how it went for other towns this is not a decision anyone's going to make lightly we're not just going to make it we can't do that so just want to make sure that's super clear so that you know we're not I don't know look like we're doing something we're not like I just want to clarify something and Danny I don't mean to disenfranchise anyone but I do believe democracy is a process it's something that needs to be worked at and I think the relationships that we get the information I always learn something at town meeting that's why I think that in person and if we to me if it went just to Australian ballot I think we would lose something in our history I think people some people look forward to it look forward to the meals some people look forward it's the one time that they see their neighbors and I think that's a really important part of our community and I think I'm not sure what you know again I move from Bristol Vermont who was a day meeting and shortly after I left they moved to an evening meeting and their participation increased and you're going to have no matter whether it be day evening Saturday you know there's good there's pros and cons to probably each one and you're going to disenfranchise a certain amount of people the only thing I'm concerned about is that we have an informed electorate that we have some vehicle other than information meetings that we could explain things and if there's something that's really valid on the day of town meeting we could change it so that to me is why town meeting is so critical you know Billy Shepplett used to say this all the time it's amazing as again we've had these meetings like with the police force where the auditorium was packed full and I think that's when you see is when you have a topic of interest of people that's when people show up when you have the normal you know people just concerned about how much that you know loader cost that's not going to encourage a lot of people to come and if you don't have something that's really engaging that's not why people show up they show up I remember when the children's room was on button time when that first you know you had a number of people come in so I think maybe we need something to engage people to come to the meeting you know whether it be if there's not such a important you know policy decision to be made that year maybe there's some sort of decision whether it be you know we see things of people talk about climate change and discussion of climate change the discussion of you know all kinds of you know inclusion you know those kind of things would be very interesting I think it's how many I think a lot of people would be I think anything we could do to engage people I used to chastise and I'll throw my wife under the bus I say you get the day off and sometimes you don't show up to town meeting I say that's what they're giving you the day off to attend your town meeting and I just find that you know especially the people that have been given the time off to attend the meeting don't come that to me is the worst I'll get up my sofa yeah Amy hi thanks I'm really excited that this topic is being brought up just to start because I do think that I've been looking at it from a different angle and I was just wondering you know in terms of your goals I've heard you talk a lot about participation in the meeting and then Ancillary you've been talking about how and but I've looked at it from actual votes right so of a population of the town is I don't even know where we're at yet but it's a it's a actually pretty low representation of voting that's going on and I and I'm just curious if you folks have considered it from that angle because what you're talking about are all these different solutions one of which or many of which may very well help increase that kind of voting rate versus town meeting participation so to me it's two different arenas and the strategies strategies and tactics you want to play I mean are some of the ones that you've already talked about which should definitely deserve more time I'm just curious if you folks have really talked about it on the whole voter population availability that's what I'm talking about when I'm speaking so I'm sorry if it wasn't clear when I'm talking about participation in this regard I'm talking I'm meeting voting not just showing up and going home so I don't know if we're all talking about that but to clarify I mean talking about participation I love everyone to get informed and listen to slipper meetings I could give you a very simple example I mean I actually do I travel a lot for business and sometimes it's landed on town meeting day it's not something I've chosen I can't typically get out of it I do have to search to get myself informed that was a really good focus topic as well because being informed as a citizen in the town is not easy we got to go to a lot of different websites and things like that we got to keep up but I do that I mean if a hand ballot is I have to be able to do that and or right ahead so preparing me for voting while absent is an option but how best to advocate or share that with the community with all the different options they may have that's an education arm I just wanted to give that example sometimes I can't be present physically because I'm not here but I do very much would love to sit on that floor for what it's worth thank you for clarifying the varying points of view would you be able to participate via zoom if that was an option personally I could yes it does get a little interesting so for example as I'm a meeting I facilitate a bunch of meetings and lead them I do a lot virtually but even that example where Chris was just sitting one row back if there's any noise or shuffling in a room there are hundreds of people trying to hear it may be challenging so if you were to go that route I just recommend really investigating your technical plan before an audio part of it just to consider because particularly if you are not familiar with devices and how best to set up your own home experience for that it may be really challenging to hear people so you might need to have a lot of presentation or things of that nature and or mic usage but generally speaking I think it can be done I've done virtual with well over 300 people on a call it's got to be well managed and that's 300 not 3000 which is I don't know where our voting population is but so you not risking it well it can be done but I will tell you it's not an afternoon it's week you got to prepare thank you for the option they're weighing you bet I was wondering if we could go to Karen do you know how many people are on the voter checklist so just of the 5000 water braille there's 4500 on the voter checklist just to say and we're reviewing it next Wednesday so thank you and again likewise really appreciate the comments I was just going to I appreciate even just the reference of handouts and to your point Mike about like how do folks know about things I think that's another again like formats aside I have an ongoing collection of the bound printed town reports but like they used to be mailed to everyone and that's not the case anymore and I'm again not making that proposal right now but I think thinking about the content that's in that how we present it a pie chart I mean I joked there was like a town manager in another town there's like you know generational comment your generation doesn't want to read a nine page report and wants a pie graph about this is how much money the town spends and use the things it you know spends it on so again I think there's work that can happen there as well outside of the format question and I guess to say like we do I don't want to bridge us too far but separate from town meeting I think this charter is a conversation about because it isn't it's an Australian ballot opportunity so as we're having this question about who is participating and what again dress rehearsal is wrong but it's an opportunity for us to think about how we intentionally are getting a word out about the charter vote and how folks can participate in the details I know you know like Karen you often have that info right on like how to request absentee ballots and the like so maybe we can also be more intentional for the charter conversation about sharing that and seeing this broader you know point around just voter participation in general throughout the year and for other opportunities Karen how can we have a voter checklist of 40 if we're a little over 5,000 people that has to be way more than 500 people that are below the age of 18 I'm sorry like I don't think I understand your question you're saying there's an election checklist of 4500 if we're I know we're 5,000 5200 something like that I didn't name the number of people that live in this town because I don't know the voter checklist is 4500 but it is but our population is under 6,000 that's why we'll be meeting on Wednesday October 28th who needs to be slashed some people who are deceased on that checklist not usually deceased because we can use death records to remove people but people who moved I can't take them off the voter checklist without written consent I would think we would have 15 to 20% of the population are less than 18 years old it's an aging population Mike anybody else online wanting to participate I can share a little bit of information I did spend some time today looking at some neighboring communities and what they do I tried to stick in the school district but that proved a bit of a challenge some towns that couldn't find information on their website kind of piggyback Amy's comment about having to do some sleuthing so Bolton their town meeting is on Monday night 7 o'clock they go around Tuesday Devsbury has an informational public meeting it looks like the Saturday before they do their voting on Tuesday everybody does their voting on Tuesday Facedin is all on Tuesday morning meeting 9.30 everything is done on the floor Middlesex I was only able to find 2022 so there's a chance they've changed it but they were all on the floor on Tuesday Moretown does a Monday night meeting at 7 o'clock voting on Tuesday and Stowe is all on Tuesday the only thing I'll say about the Monday night meeting is that is also the informational meeting for the school so from my perspective that doesn't seem real cohesive for voters who are responsible for voting on both things to have these conflicting meetings both happening at the same time so you can't be in the school listening to them and their informational meeting and still be at our informational meeting so that was just one thing I observed about the Monday night although other, you know, Moretown's doing it but nonetheless Moretown has both meetings on the Monday the school, oh, because of the thing the school board meeting is held at Harwood and then they're informational so it's conflicts it conflicts in my opinion because you're voting for both of those the info meeting was hybrid this year I listened on Zoom to the school board so you can't be in the same time regardless of how one year and then you hear Bill Shuffler in the room which was a real thing that happened so from my perspective I think Monday night would be my least favorable night for multiple reasons not the least of which is that would not allow people to attend the school board and they can only do an informational meeting because they're relying on the clerks to do their Australian ballot so they need to hold an informational meeting what time does the VCA meeting have been saying your email? I think it's on the agenda it starts at 5.30? I think it's 5. I just looked at the agenda but it could be 5 oh wait I have a new message Dexbury's info meeting is the first Saturday in January oh thank you Lisa so the slack board can make changes to the budget before it's finalized for the warden I thought that said that word but maybe I read it wrong First Saturday in February yeah sure Chris Karen kind of brought it to mind here does voting have to take place on Tuesday? from my perspective yes okay so if you help a town meeting on Saturday you wouldn't be able to do any voting until a due player if you did a town meeting on Saturday you would be doing an informational meeting format and then you would go buy a Australian ballot I assume on Tuesday that's the more or less the but don't towns do that have their meeting on Saturday and vote then some of them vote in May I didn't see that I only looked in neighboring towns okay I'm just saying I'm going statewide I didn't broaden my search that far so if we wanted to move our actual town meeting with a floor vote to a Saturday that would be that would be a huge issue and we lose our town clerk well it's one I think we're conflating voting again so voting being Australian ballot I said I'm up like a floor vote for officers I couldn't do that on a Saturday and do officers for Australian ballot on a subsequent Tuesday? I didn't think so but that's what I'm clearing up because that's what I was wondering if that's what we're talking about I'm seeing this thing like the normal ballot vote would still be on the Tuesday but the in-person meeting whatever was going to be verbal floor votes could happen that budget special articles that's the question somebody else on the board? okay I beg your pardon it looks like Bolton does theirs on Monday night and they do last year I just wanted to answer the question Bolton had four articles that were decided from the floor on Monday night at least how I read their warning and then they voted by Australian ballot on Tuesday so they held a town meeting on Monday night and voted on their floor articles that night would that put you through the hurdles twice? I feel like it would which I'm not like I'm not really keen on that I feel like it would Docksbury does an informational meeting as Lisa pointed this clearly says February 27th but anyway select board the town of Docksbury will hold a public informational meeting in person on February 27th at 7.30 to discuss the articles listed below not in last year so did I answer your question about you can vote on floor articles not on the Tuesday but you still have concerns about that administratively I guess that's the question we want to know I've only done one town meeting I've only done one town meeting was there anything else that came up is there any lack of pledge of allegiance not with us not with us Kate, no time what I was going to say is having the school meeting along with the town meeting on the same night doesn't make any sense but also the more we discuss this the more informational meeting followed by Australian ballot still gives you that town meeting without you know so you still get the Norman Rockwell painting while modernizing our town meetings it sounds like an easy answer and it sounds easier than I think it's going to be and to answer your question it's at 5pm thank you which is it 5pm? BCA which Wednesday is that? 25 alright any further discussion on this? Lisa you've come on the screen does that mean you'd like to speak or you just wanted me to see you you're muted you're having technical issues if you want to you can message me and now cut it she's off well I think that was great we brought up some good issues Karen thank you for doing your research in neighboring communities I think it's important to learn from what others have done I might be adding more information about Bristol and how that's worked out for them that might be a good input a lot of people Bristol became more and more of instead of a farming community it became more of a bedroom community to commute to the Burlington area and I think a lot of people who have 9 to 5 jobs who can either can't or do not want to take their time off to a tent town meeting they like the idea that it was an evening meeting and then it creates the challenges of course with daycare and stuff like that I think whatever option you choose is going to be pros and cons to it right and you've got to sort through I'm all for having good participation but I also like people understanding what they're voting for I think that's a good point so I'm thinking perhaps we'd have scheduled another discussion of this and try to narrow down some particular options that are going to work for our town clerk going to meet many of the issues that we brought up tonight and then see if we can sort of narrow down and try to get a gauge of what the public will is and maybe we can even bring that to the floor during town meeting this coming March I did check the Secretary States today that is the process to place a change on the ballot this coming March well at least to change the format of both day we'd have to be on that there are many people who can't attend town meeting don't have a say in town meeting there's some maybe that would do something right Roger may I just say I just don't I think if we're going to have this discussion it should be outside of a regular select board meeting I'd like almost a special meeting because if people know it's going to be a special meeting to discuss the future of town meeting I would hold to think I'm disappointed that the number of people who showed up today for this I don't know if because I think it's going to be just a little discussion that it's not important enough for my attendance but if it's like having informational meetings and charter changes we've had informational meetings on other things years past during COVID we had informational meetings on the budget and I think you had pretty good attendance for it to be just the five select board members discussing this with a few others I think that's not a good representation I want the community to want Elizabeth I mean I agree it's not a representation as someone who thought it was really important to say initial discussion I think our goal was to maybe lower the stakes a little for tonight and I will just say on a separate topic we had the walking tour and open house for the zoning changes which is an equally lively and exciting topic for some people and that was pretty well attended I think we had 50 folks here and I will just say like I got personal emails inviting me to that saying like it would be really important for you to be here and so again just a piece of life regardless of format I think there's things we can do to try and push engagement if there's interest like make pretty posters hang it all over town email all our contacts so I think when we make a change we want to propose a change or want more input this was a preliminary discussion with us and I think we can be intentional about making a bigger ask if we want to Amy would like to speak again One more comment I want to really really emphasize there was a comment you just closed with it but I can give you one representative example to keep up with what's going on in my own town is a part time job I'm not lying you dish out there's a lot of content just in the conservation commission I'm doing volunteer work just to keep up in the one commission I'm in so I didn't want you to leave here thinking that no one really I'd like your sentiment but to keep I get a notification of the select board meeting because I asked for prior to that was there a lot of outreach to explain it that's an option this is how you signal sometimes honestly my personal calendar like three meetings a week are the town so it's a commitment that I wouldn't dare say people wouldn't want to but I think making sure they're really clear about the efforts that are being discussed and maybe the marketing on the front end people's attention I mean I'm going to just say the work I do is it's you have to gain people's attention units they're very small no matter what you have outside of the town work people work professionally don't you know they are at home whichever but their days are busy and to really grab their attention to to local government stuff it's not easy particularly when it's overwhelming with rich with data lots of information out there thank you again I just can't I can't underscore that enough yep well thanks again for for taking the time tonight to join us all right unless there's other comments I know we will move on to the next point of order which is animal control fee schedule I need that we have a handout on that there should be a handout yeah it looks like this is sorry yep second pages sorry you don't have the way to bury it somehow okay all right there we go I have a digital one sorry to be the audience I understood okay so last adopted schedule fees was in 2015 it says that we can change the schedule of fees from time to time can I have a moment I'm sorry I just wanted to do my searching today the town of Bolton is looking for an animal control officer and they have a $250 a year cycle and I was like wow $250 so it's a volunteer possession yeah right I read that $500 for a while I honestly don't know we haven't had an ECO for so long I have no idea but I just thought the struggles we've had to get one and I really didn't think that was a very enticing offer I'll let you know we compete with Bolton so are these fees these are eight years old we said last updated 2015 I would say I was finding it Karen that's the story I thought you were going to tell them I was looking for the time meeting so are these the fee schedule that he has on the second page is that what he was proposing like he has following for consideration the first of which would be to remove the entire first category this should be removed in its entirety as these costs are borne by the town and not a fee imposed so like that's top category animal control officer costs if I'm reading correctly Tom's recommendation is that that should be struck from the fee schedule because we built it into the town he then has some other recommendations on the boarding fees that they might need to increase we can have an conversation about the civil penalties and this proposal for additional potential policies that could be created so I'm just trying to see if this boils down into motion which is sort of I can comment on that what Tom wrote here let me reference 2015's numbers hourly rate for the animal control officer is $20 an hour and it was $30 a visit to respond to a complaint he has been paying $25 an hour with $50 a visit per complaint this should be removed entirely as these costs are borne by the town I guess my proposal Roger would be that we have a discussion around sir go ahead all I was saying was that he already increased but like his suggestion is to increase his rate with $25 an hour being the minimum which is all I was suggesting is what I would have also suggested I think I can shed some light on that yeah go ahead it's a little iffy like 10 days ago and Ariel gave her notice 12 days ago I don't think that Tom even knew this document existed when he negotiated the rate of pay that he offered Ariel so that's potentially why you see that discrepancy between why he noted paying her and what you see it's an almost perfect cost of living adjustment yeah as luck would have it I'm merely speculating but I know that I only found this like last year all my comment was going to be was that I think that is the correct amount of money to pay someone $25 an hour plus $50 per visit that was my suggestion yes to me the civil penalties make no sense they are out of date even if you start at even if you continue with the first violation of $50 to have this minor escalation to me gets no one's attention I don't you know I think if you're going to be a repeat violator you have to get someone's attention by more and more fees yeah it's interesting the second violation is no more than the first but even to go for violation they're only up to $100 I know some people are just going to continue the bad behavior at low fees Alyssa if I'm thinking back to our discussion and how this got on the agenda we had some discussion about an unleashed dog if I recall correctly and there was a consideration of what mechanisms we had as a municipality had to deal with this so the fees came up I'm hearing from this analysis that the civil penalties haven't been updated and that was going to achieve our goals of getting more compliance and law I have to say personally what I'm struggling with is in general I think I support Tom's recommendations as outlined he's saying increase the pound fees and I think our substantive policy discussion for us as a board is around our beliefs around what the civil penalties should be personally I struggle a little bit with the fact that like we don't have any animal officers so I actually think the most I think right in Tom's three line email point was like I'll work on animal control officer because that is probably the most important I mean the whole fourth bullet is around that an animal control officer could help develop a more nuanced policy to be included in the future so I guess to the extent we want to discuss civil penalties I guess part of me agrees with you Mike that maybe it would help it but I think increasing the penalties for violations that we're not even enforcing to start with and that's why I also agree with you I think we should wait until we have another full-time animal control officer in place and maybe get their input on what increased fees may help or not help so would we need to amend this ordinance in order to get an animal control officer because this was adopted in 2015 unless we say differently but we can change the schedule of fees without the need to amend the ordinance that's right we amended with civil penalties to be determined you could propose increasing that's the policy conversation if you're saying you think it's really important that we have a higher second violation you could make a motion that we amend the animal control ordinance fee schedule to increase the second violation to insert dollar amount I guess personally I don't know that I would vote for that motion but I think we have the ability to make such a motion I would for the second violation but going down to fourth violation only being a hundred dollars I think that's a very much of a repeat of that and that's I don't know we see all these lifestyle issues that residents complain about and you've got to be able to hopefully have some teeth to deal with it and if we don't have an animal control officer we're not going to be able to deal with it I personally don't think I would vote for any schedule fee change at all right now without an animal control officer as Tom notes there's no time period whatsoever on any of this I love an opinion from someone who hopefully has some experience I'm also not thrilled about a monetary fee and whether it works or not and whether it's going to help or harm a situation so without someone who's at least experienced or is going to do the enforcement in town I'm not sure I feel comfortable making those changes now so I'd be curious if there's something that we wanted to definitely that we felt like we needed to make a change like maybe the pound fees although I don't know who's going to pick up a dog if we don't have an animal control officer so I'm not sure what needs to be changed today before we have an officer I'd be curious to hear about that we also don't have a pound what's I mean if we're boarding if we're taking them to a boarding facility that's going to cost a whole lot more than I can't find a boarding facility I can't find a bed I saw that I saw that who would want you as a dog captain who are you shopping for? I didn't have a voice Chris so did the dog ALC get done because of the money issue or was there other circumstances? not to the best of my knowledge I think it was a conflict of time to be honest with you I don't think I had anything to do with a monetary package to Mike's point if we had a dog animal control officer one thing that concerns me is about with the municipality is certain mine items running in the bread I'm always pushed for fee structures that help support the municipality's effort to take care of those issues that you're trying to deal with and it goes back to what I said at the public part of the meeting tonight disrespect for your neighbors disrespect for other people if somebody is clearly violating town rules which is imposing on other people that to me is disrespectful and there has to be some way of turning the ship outside of fees higher fees and I'm a firm believer that if the fees were high enough and we don't ever seem to give this a try that people would look at that and say you know what I don't want to be faced with that so I'm going to do the right thing mm-hmm so it could have Elizabeth I'm just appreciating the last three sentences in Tom's memo which is about creating a more formal ticketing policy just noting that like some of this could maybe be a little more nuanced so it's trying to actually address what we're wanting saying that select board input would be helpful people happy to work with a select board volunteer to help draft the rules and then the last sentence is as critical as the most common violation that occurs is dog owners not licensing their dogs which is 11 and 15 dollars so I just have to say like I would love to I'm happy to work with Karen and think about it but if that's actually our most common violation it's a pretty modest fee can I just hear you correctly saying that you would be the volunteer I will say who doesn't own animals you don't have a dog in this money oh literally stuffed animals only none of this you're asking I don't personally have any desire to increase the licensing fee of 11 and 15 but I do feel like in situations like what happened recently where a local dog owner unlicensed dog tons of calls and complaints about the dog running around the neighborhood I don't think it's appropriate for him to then be able to walk in and just license his dog for the same 11 dollars even with leafy it's like four dollars I mean it's he should have done the responsible thing before April 1st and license this dog the responsible thing and license your dog I'm just feeling like this I'm with ordinances and other things we talked about the last couple meetings always boils down to enforcement we don't have enforcement so as we talk about these ordinances regardless of whether it's animal control or loitering or what have you or noise we don't have enforcement for it so we can charge a million dollars ahead for a dog but it doesn't matter we don't have enforcement the problem comes if that same dog were to bite somebody then the health officer gets involved the dog gets taken away through that avenue and then I have a little bit more enforcement but just the dog running around the neighborhood doesn't provoke doesn't provoke any action this morning because we don't have an ACL we have an ACL animal control officer position it's just not filled out within that person who does exercise some authority in enforcement so I we've had a lot of good discussion on this I heard that Alyssa was willing to as Tom suggested work with the clerk and with him to come up with some recommended changes to the ordinance and the schedule I don't know if we need to vote on that but she's willing to accept it I'll make a motion to that effect I would say contingent upon reintroducing it on an agenda when we have an animal control officer no we'll do it sooner we'll come up with it soon I have a motion do we have a second I thought that was a joke I was saying no move and second it any further discussion any opposed any abstentions the stop sign at the corner of Perry Hill and Hoff alright for May the public works director would like you to approve or give permission for the public works department to place a stop sign on Perry Hill Road at the intersection of Hoff Road if you were traveling east my understanding is that's where a yield sign already exists and also permission to add that to the highway ordinance so moved moved do we have a second okay moved and second now discussion Mike have there been any public complaints about that or is that just a bill it's a lot of near misses I've been in those near misses I've been in those near misses it's confusing that's all I need to know I've been in a similar position there's just one situation up there it's not clear as to who has the right of way I'm not aware of any situations I just got a text well what is confusing is that Perry Hill makes a sharp right left turn there and otherwise it looks like a T where you would expect to have a stop sign coming into this road Hoff Road moves to the right and you have people coming for any given direction you just have a yield sign it isn't clear Mike can't just house right yeah exactly right near the worst spot if Cain says he's been there a number of times clear miss it well it's just that people coming off of Perry Hill as soon as they have the right of way and take that turn super hard as traffic is coming from both angles a stop sign is a good idea yeah moved to the second any further discussion hearing none all in favor say aye aye any opposed any abstentions alright we will get a stop sign at the corner of Perry Hill and add it to the ordinance and add it to the ordinance okay board liaison updates Karen and I put this on the agenda because we did introduce this idea of board liaisons earlier this year and to a certain extent they're working but we introduce them without a lot of clarity as to what the role of the liaison is and how that gets followed up on so I'd like to open it up for discussion I do have a couple of thoughts on it but first of all maybe we can go around and talk about your role as liaison and how it's working whether you have any particular recommendations going forward anyone want to start I've had a number of conversations about the conservation commission and one I'm glad to see there were two people here that you know they have had a lot of problems and as I told him sometimes it's not necessarily it's what the commission has on their plate if you don't have kind of a big sexy item or something coming down you know there's not as much interest and I think you know for a lot of time the wildlife was an interest I think that sparking itself up again and I think there's just some interest starting again it's just a matter of beating the bushes and we have talked about it it's their community mapping project I think that created a lot of interest and buzz so I think that's kind of a good thing DRB little different haven't had they kind of want just leave us alone let us do our thing kind of you know we and they will be glad to tell you know tell us their opinions as I think I've discussed before one of their biggest things are is they want things planning items that are very defined that they can make decisions on and that's their I think their biggest issue is that sometimes they can't deny something because what current stage zoning is at doesn't prove you know I've had the famous thing the parking spaces that have been issued 20 times over and that's where they have their stress so I think the planning commission is doing their job getting you know zoning rewrites done and as that kind of occurs I think that's going to clear a lot of things up with the DRB and I think it's a good commission a lot of people on the board there you know long time members I think it's a very solid board I don't think there's a lot of problems there others the natural disaster preparedness committee is going great which is higher to you guys we're going to set up a meeting soon you'll get an email you're late although quickly because I was hoping to get to each monthly e-bud meeting and it's proven really a schedule challenge on a Wednesday at 4.30 I've been I've only been to one and this month it's cancelled so schedule wise has been I know you've been to at least one didn't you get to say? yeah maybe two and it's only once a month too which is good and bad so schedule wise that's been tough in the work day so I feel a little bit like I'm not you know doing my liaising up to snuff but we'll see how that continues in the future and just stay in touch but I don't know I've been trying to think if there's a better way to just stay in touch with them or ensure them you know reading the minutes or whatever it might be but for now it's been a little bit lackluster on my end just as a comment I don't think you have to be there at every or even most meetings I think that there's an open dialogue that you're there and they know they can ask you questions and you can answer questions you know that two-way dialogue I think that's what's the important thing and I think most of these commissions if you go and you're there occasionally you know that's all that it's just they're just not out in the weeds and stuff like that they want they want to feel that they have some sense of support and if you're there supporting them it's not just coming to every you know you know meeting and stuff like that I don't think that's necessarily by any of us going to every every year thanks Mike okay thanks this is really interesting and I appreciate it being on the agenda I would say so formally I'm the liaison to the planning commission I would say certainly I tried to update you all in general about what was happening and attend meeting as much as I can again the scheduling is sometimes challenging I think it's interesting like the planning commission really explicitly I guess one to give an update like I said the zoning walking tour went well I think it was an effective engagement tool we just say that the materials are still on the website and there will be another walking tour and I'm sure I'll tell you about it in the next meeting but it was a good way to for we talked about with town meeting you know kind of this like lower stakes engagement and there was like opportunities for members they actually like shaded gray for sections of the proposed bylaws and said we haven't reviewed this yet so I don't you know wrecking their meeting right now I was actually just going to say I can go try and grab someone but it was a good way to kind of like share information really clearly for the downtown area they have literally a slider map so you can click on your house on main street see what your zone does right now what it allows and then what they're proposing so really like giving folks on property in town really concrete information about what proposed changes might you be happening and I would say in terms of like the liaison role I think in particular for the planning commission because they're proposing regulations making sure we on the select board are on the same page and so to the extent there's ways to do that more effectively I would say if anything like a critique or a valid point I've heard from planning commission members is like well you're really steeped in this stuff and know it really well and does that mean the rest of the board is and that's not like disparaging but they're going like is you coming to every single meeting when you're already so involved in this effective or would it be better to have more folks get exposed to what the planning commission is doing week to week and so I just wanted to say that you know in the spirit of I'm happy to consider playing the role I think it probably does make sense to have specific liaisons just for continuity and connection and that type of thing but thinking about that sharing back and forth and the other piece I would say is like housing task force so Cain and I have both been going to those meetings Joe who's the chair of that at one point said like well what are the select board expectations of our group and in that case we have kind of the committee outlining charge that we as a select board approved but beyond that you know I say like I'm giving you you know my take I'm not necessarily speaking on behalf of the board so to the extent you know and I've just stuck to kind of what we already approved but if there's I don't know if that's more regular meetings or being more clear at the outset or having committees check back in again I don't to be clear I think anyone's like careening off in a different direction but you know in terms of like various policy proposals and if they're looking for kind of guidance or support from the select board we don't have like a besides going to me personally we haven't been brought I haven't necessarily brought all those back to the full group in every case right yeah part of the reason for putting this on the agenda tonight was we're going into budgeting season so to the extent that any of these committees or commissions have budgetary issues that need to be taken into consideration for 2024 it's an important point and then also I have gotten some feedback from Martha on the planning commission also from Billy Big Door just wanted to know what the mandate is and where the support from the select board is and they sort of come to me as chair but obviously we all have one vote on this board so I wanted to sort of push that back a little bit and say you know does it make sense to invite them to come to the select board once a year and report out as to what they feel like they've been doing get further clarification about what their mandate is or can we just do that through this liaison format so I guess that's sort of a question back to you my thoughts are I think it would be great to have the chair and anyone else come at least yearly and obviously there's more going on more often but when Tom was first hired he talked about the idea of like a municipal calendar outside of what already exists like this kind of ongoing thing things that we let's look like bills review a million times or bills raised the things that just are going to need to happen and if we could just schedule it and knew that it was coming we wouldn't have to scramble and put it on if we could schedule each committee once per year because there are sometimes where I'm like conservation mission is working on at all right now and you know I haven't asked but so that would be my hope and they're a good example actually the conservation mission started in the annual calendar on their town committee website that has these things like you probably have to propose a budget in December so I would echo I think folks coming in really makes sense just in terms of the spirit of a town meeting conversation like dialogue about like what is your group doing and making sure folks are on the same page I would say one other piece that just I thought of when you said Martha is I think I would like to do better as a liaison I think is thinking about things that were relevant so like an oversight that came up at the planning and zoning meeting is we appointed someone to the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission For God's Tell the Planning Commission have been to like seven meetings since but they and so they were like yeah this person introduced himself and said he was the new rat but it was in part because it had been Steve for so long and both but I think it certainly brought to my attention of like oh making sure you know I often will say when I attend the planning commission meetings that I mentioned things that are relevant so for example I mentioned the charter change because it is relevant to zoning administrators which is something the planning commission has been involved in but I think it was just a good reminder to me that I do think part of the liaison role is thinking about what things is the other group thinking about but I think that being a group conversation more regularly would be really really positive. Okay and I've been serving as the liaison to the rec committee I haven't been to every meeting but I've been to a few of them and part of the challenge with them is that they used to be very directly engaged because we didn't have any rec staff to mention other than director for the summer program and then for the past several years we've been increasing the staffing around the rec and so they become more of an advisory body and there's a certain lack of clarity as to what they're advising on and so I suggested that they take a look at the projects because there are any number of recommendations on what should be built and what needs to be further developed and I said if you could prioritize those for the remainder of this calendar year and then more particularly for the budget of 2024 that would be particularly helpful and that's really where they've focused a lot of their effort and they've come up with a whole evaluation strategy that they finalized this last Thursday and they'll be going through each project with a list of their priorities for 2024 so I think that is helpful maybe going forward we can work on developing a calendar there are a couple that we have not even dealt with like the tree commission I mean as a committee I'm not sure but you know there's we've changed its name and we've adopted the tree ordinance good question Roger Amy has asked it sounds like they are supporting I guess you saw that I was just going to say that the other added benefit that hasn't really been discussed but if considering inviting a larger the commission of the self it's really important for us as members to hear directly from you instead of distilled points through a leader not to say that in my case Billy is an amazing communicator he's very transparent has all of that but there's also the aspects of how you folks think and translate ideas can be very helpful for guiding the team and understanding where the gaps are in terms of maybe some questions that you folks have and or direction I think it could build a real good partnership and not to mention there are several people that don't even know what your faces look like so when they hear the name they're like oh yeah I know this person but then they can't place where they may not have seen them I think Alyssa's point is really well taken I think it would be really helpful to have some sort of organized plan when some of these commissions and boards are going to report to us but I think they have done that but I don't think it's been in an organized it's usually when something comes planning commissions here where the conservation commission has been here all the commissions for the most part the bigger ones I think maybe not annually but pretty close to annually been reporting to us Alyssa and just to further that Mike I think it's also just a check to make sure everyone metaphorically is growing in the same direction just to say I haven't experienced I think like we talked about how to recruit and retain volunteer committee members who are already volunteering at the time and I think there's nothing worse than like oh I'm volunteering my time to further this initiative and I'll say like tree care ordinance would be a good one and then it came up and like I had questions and so I think again to that like how do we earlier on check in about like okay this is what you're thinking of proposing and this is what that's going to mean for other groups and commissions development review boards also a great example that should require the planning commission to propose regulations for us to adopt so making sure we know what the development review board is asking for to make sure that the planning commission knows and that we're down to adopt it and that all of us are talking I think like personally that's something I'm interested in is figuring out how can we have big picture goals as a town and then figure out how all of the different you know pieces are all moving towards those same goals we're on the same page okay maybe a piece of homework is that everyone that's serving currently as a liaison could propose a time either specifically or generally as to when their appointed committee or commission could meet with us I've tried three times and they are currently meeting right now so I will do my best but planning commission is a tough one right now well I mean if they're here anyways we could just pop in for 10 minutes and we can discuss what needs to be discussed alright I'm sorry just so I can make my note correct are you asking for just the board chair to come or the board the whole board like the rec board to come I guess just this meeting I think we would invite the entire board and understanding that people are busy and not everyone necessarily can make another meeting but I think to the extent possible I think it would be ideal to have the entire board there what would it be we would just speak to like the board or commission and then we would probably get something from you when they put that on the on the agenda yeah we could do it that way or we could we can do it when we do the planning for the next meetings I'd like to have Mike come the next meeting are January okay consider impact training through VLCT handout so yes I printed out for everyone this is literally if you google VLCT welcoming and engaging communities program where they sent a couple emails about it this week this is the webpage that you will land on and in the spirit of again talking about earlier I just wanted to bring all of our attention so that we can decide on if it's something we're interested in pursuing further in terms of talking through it I will say I've said before I'm on the VLCT equity committee this would actually be the second cohort they're running so back when the state was doing the ideal program which we all talked about and they're doing that again this is a separate but complementary program that really is just helping communities be more welcoming and inclusive places to be and in particular to work so I will say I would certainly not want to commit to this without talking with Tom further and again this is a first conversation but one of the neat pieces about it is it's really like data driven the woman who runs at the consultant Dr. Jude Raquel Smith does has done this work in a ton of organizations and has really interesting baseline data about like basically like if folks are feeling included in their workplace and that is the good that actually assuming a community participates in it goes back to the town so that you can actually see like how you're doing it and how that compares to other communities I would just say in the spirit of like we did equity training as board we also had that with employees and it's just another opportunity to do that parts of it that I think are neat is it's a cohort model so like the last cohort had I'm trying to think about Middlebury Heinsberg I'm not even remembering but essentially you're going through this with like other peer communities so talking about like what are you doing in your town whether things you might be able to try so that was interesting VLCT is really heavily subsidizing the cost so just to say you're accessing a ton of training it costs like $500 for the town for essentially they ask for three people to participate over a series of sessions I haven't checked all my dates but I'd be happy to I'm certainly interested in participating they also support municipal staff participating so again that would be part of the Tom follow-up question if we're interested in applying the questions they ask is essentially like why the community's interested what we're interested in getting out of it efforts related to cultural improvements that you've already undertaken they mentioned like declaration of inclusion that we did I was thinking about the employee handbook that we've updated recently again the equity training we've already done so those would be things to think about and then they ask kind of what three people are interested in participating for the dates so I guess you know recognize we're just presenting this for the first time but if folks are interested in talking about it further I would think that we would want to formally we have to like you know send a letter and what not so I would be happy to like work on an application for approval at the next meeting if there was interest but mostly just wanted to high level bring it to everyone's attention I'm sorry is this more about the culture in our office or the culture in our both but it does like include an employee service so that's or it has in the past so that would be the top question like if he has no interest I'm certainly not trying to impose it or say this is what you have to do but I believe from the past ones that's one of the things they ask is they do I think it's voluntary but some sort of survey that goes out to employees and it's over a couple of months so I think that's a like further down the road thing from what I recall so we just because I'm on this committee they presented from some of the people who participated last year which is when I heard about it so and who would participate from Waterbury that's one of the open questions so they do so it says eligible officials include legislative body so all of us city or town manager or town administrator mayor, clerk, department head good question I don't know if EFUD would have to apply as its own municipality or we could ask if they wanted to be included it would be a good way to get them we could ask if someone from EFUD wants to participate again like that's my I think it's an opt-in obviously they wouldn't have to apply themselves if they just go on board hang on there's only three people yeah which is one of the interesting they actually opted so the first cohort it was only two and they ran into candidly like participation issues with just folks having conflicts from life so they felt like three gave a little more but it is I think intended to be like a more intensive training for folks who are interested with the idea that they can learn things maybe they want to bring back again I haven't been through it before but from telling my second hand there's a higher number of people going down to a hundred dollars so if someone one of the three come you're good to go if you need 80 percent trustees can go that's fun in the spirit of our earlier conversation about fee structure yes that was actually a recommendation so they came up with a thing and they were saying given that participation it would have been a challenge they were trying to incentivize it how much it is removed I will say in part because across the state I think that's one of the things they ran into is just again I forgot to they have a tendency to wander on this I don't know Amy spoke earlier about her you know the idea of a part time job well I don't see why we wouldn't consider participating in something like this I mean it says we can send trustees that was a joke you would have to have three officially designated people and those would be it I think so that's what our motions are doing yes something we have to consider would be my thought would be I guess maybe that's the like if there isn't I mean I guess one is the I don't know what Thomas would be back but would want to talk with him about his interest actually other staff interests which maybe would be one see I'll tentatively say I'm willing to be one see but per the liaison thing it doesn't need to be me someone else would be interested in that at the time and then we potentially need someone else again I just it's an opportunity that's available and a way to have some more training to learn what's out there what other communities are joining that work with them it would be nice to get a town office staff person because someone select board someone from EFUD and and I'm almost going to say someone other than Tom I was going to say I love going to training surrounded by my employers all right would you like a vote on this endorsement I don't know that when I think to officially apply we would need a motion so if you want to make that motion now that's fine and if not we could approve the full written application in a motion at a personal meeting if that timing works I assume Tom's in favor well that's I guess I haven't I've mentioned it in passing but we have not had a detailed discussion about either his capacity to do it or again interest because I would say I'm interested in but would defer to appease the municipal manager and has reservations I'm not I don't feel strong enough about it to want to thank you for the date yes the first meeting that we are holding in November before this application it's the special town meeting for the informational meeting I think we'll have it done we've already got a big agenda what is the normal but I would say I guess I'm happy to circulate ahead of time so we can approve versus having to discuss I think if you could get in touch with Tom when you're back at least to say that either he or he'd like to put it out to the staff and see if a department head or Karen or whomever wants to do it it's a big commitment it is a big commitment I know I'm very interested and I'm unsure about the time the timing is going to be tough for me because of work but if you wouldn't mind just checking the time on this and getting coming back to us in November okay next meeting in general okay so our next meeting will be the third informational meeting on the term change as of yet you don't have anything else on that agenda wait we have a third I think it was not a normal select board meeting night I did not make a draft agenda for that meeting because the best of my knowledge that's the only thing we're doing that now we don't have to have that be the only thing we're doing we can certainly have a full meeting and how I would have no objections to adding a consent agenda if you have permits that care at 1, 2, 3 usually okay but I'm not sure we want to load it up with much else yeah I'll be bringing my parents my parents are in town so can't wait you're excited I'm excited they think that we're doing something special I can't wait so I want to back up a little to Amy Marshall Carney's comments earlier whether we all feel like we or I am doing enough to get the word out about this charter I haven't personally done anything on from porch forum I think Lisa's done a little bit around about but if there's something that you all need or want me to do now would be a great time for you to ask me to do that so I have time to put it together and get it out there so yeah I think it is important for you to work together with Tom and I'll help to put something out on from porch forum and in the roundabout about this meeting yeah we have some statutory requirements of course but they're pretty minimal right but I think just perhaps a broader introduction as to why this is happening what we hope to the purpose behind it will I think help to get more people informed and ideally get some people to come to the meeting for us to meet just to discuss this one more time we serve a great deal of purpose so this is really an opportunity to get more people involved in this discussion so that when the vote comes around December 5 it's people show up to vote and they know what they're voting for Amy has a suggestion have you folks ever considered recruiting for volunteer that has social media comms planning background that could support Karen and Lisa and whomever else because what I'm hearing here isn't like business world it's like a strategy so it's like where are we going to communicate what are the messages how frequently and I know that everyone here has a full-time job too so that would be additive and Karen I don't know your background there so forgive me if that is that and but I know how seeking volunteers for commissions I don't know if I know that the budgets are typically tight perhaps you could consider that too but in the short term maybe you could get a citizen that has that experience and could offer some ideas for a variety of your communication needs like your town meeting and all these other topics that you're discussing for engagement something to think about are you raising your hand there you go I have program project I have a whole different skill set I might be able to find some people but I don't know if they live here in town so I do know a lady that I actually connected with who is willing to volunteer her time for our family farm and minimal time and of course I would compensate however we could but that was actually a welcome surprise to me like oh this is great this is a lady who's moved into town and she has a passion for helping out locally so I was just curious if you hadn't considered that that might be an option as one of your recruitment options for volunteers I could help with skill sets and responsibility defining all that stuff for you if you need that help but I can't do the marketing side well anyways about his thought about that we briefly talked about it when he started the town facebook page we did have a conversation around it but I'd be happy to have that conversation with him again would we not want to consider because I know you've mentioned front porch forum and whatabare around the valve which are great outlets for the community but I think we should have an ad in the Times Argus maybe the Washington world different people different things this is for the outreach meeting for the charter we have to post the warning so that will be in the Times Argus that's part of the statutory requirement Tom's already made those arrangements I can't recall the dates off the top of my head and in line with that my recollection from new folks at one point was that when you named the Times Argus as your paper record because you had to have a paper you also instructed staff whenever we were advertising the Times Argus to also advertise Lisa so when I spoke with Lisa I asked her to please run the warnings and the very roundabout as well and I agree but I'm looking at a more maybe informal like kind of a promotional thing like people read the Washington world and say hey what's happening this week and it's another way to let people know that meetings are happening and some people are not I love Lisa and the roundabout I think I get most of my best information about town there but I'm not a front porch forum person but I think from what I know I know a lot of people who are involved in the media world a overarching broadcast strategy is the best way to we have an unlimited budget Michael I know the Washington world is very cheap I know I don't even have a rep at the world to be honest not that you couldn't call I just advertise there our foreclosures that we did better business than some of the big papers if a concern is getting the word out just take an ad out on facebook it's like 20 bucks it's kind of cheaper than running in a paper it's going to be you just make a post you turn it into an ad and you know run and that's it that's your button you pick your target audience over waterberry hit run doesn't cost that much and it's going to get to way more people than the Washington world I will be sure sure that the Washington world is a much better place so I think obviously best case more is more Karen thank you very much for asking me I don't think it's all on you either I think we all can help I think at a minimum everything you've described makes sense from porch form makes sense maybe touching base with Tom I think from porch form doing it a couple times I think maybe some of us doing it I will say like I am not always doing it so I think you doing it from the town is always great but per a year point no we haven't directly recruited people but I think like one of the other informal networks is us talking about it as select board members and we're talking to other community members I think like yes if we had a graphic designer person that would be amazing but I will say in practice like we've had municipal staff who have filled in bits of pieces of that so I would say one of the things that we try to be careful is not wanting to duplicate or step on any of those toes so again we would go to Tom before doing anything there personally and Danny's already offered to bring her family so a lot of us can bring two people for work right family have phones I do wonder about like a I actually think the posters I know didn't notice more I just think it's like it's small print that's hard to read you wonder about something printed that's not statutory but try to information session I think I think I think a couple things the planning commission I think that word out was really I had multiple people talk like are you going did you know about this you should go to this I'm going to this where I can't go to this but I found the website so like that path of printing and word of out was successful also remember that like some people really want people to attend of course in people that it is pretty simple so there might be a really significant part of our population who reads whatever gets up on front porch forum and is like cool those bullet points covered it for me I don't need to go to a meeting I'm busy I get it so it's okay like obviously we want to do the effort but I'm just saying like just because if only 10 people come it might not be because we didn't get the word out it might be because it was well explained it's two bullet points and they got it because there's you know it's good enough so this couch night they might want to protect their house you know I don't know I can't speak for generation Z I'm not one of them but I have not I have seen sharp decrease in cabbages that's true I teach my son how to do cabbages so that's a different topic alright so I'm hearing that there are a lot of different ways it couldn't come off mute that last comment I just want to skimming skimming from porch forum and thinking you have it can be very dangerous if the avenue of validating the understanding isn't there so if that's how you want the town towns people to engage then I'd recommend really closing those messages with a way that they to reach out to validate because I do think a lot of assumptions are made before decision making and that's just general not just this town I mean in general people and I when the topic around having town meeting the affect of that is you have that validation of understanding and that opportunity to get it and so I just want to be very cautious when I hear someone saying about hey I picked up something I read and I think I completely understand what's going on because that is I doubt ever the case particularly on from porch forum except for I'm selling something and here's where you can find it kind of thing yeah and I bring that to you because that's something that you know we've been talking about on the conservation commission particular around complex ideas yeah alright good point so I think what I heard is that we're going to try a variety of different media if there are volunteers out there a little bit late for that frankly I think you know try it in terms of but we can reach out through social media perhaps an ad in the world or the TA I mean I'm prepared to if your decision is to have the 1030 meeting be approved the agenda consent agenda informational meeting then I will put that agenda together finalize it with the correct zoom link and then I will post that on from porch forum I can do it a number of times using my town clerk credentials and I think Amy makes a good point I'm more than happy to put at the bottom if you have any questions please email me please call I think I try to close my post that way anyway so that if there is a question to be fielded at least they have a way to reach me by their phone or email if I need assistance I can't do anything with Facebook but I can Tom Keon I don't know who has those credentials but it's not me so I can do from porch forum if you'd like me to publish something in one of the papers tell me that tonight and I'll look into that yeah but I think we want something written more robust way though so it might be a couple of days and I might wait on Tom's approval of the outline of what the charter why the charter here the points here's the schedule you know so the point wasn't just put something on from porch forum and call it a day the point was to have a well written out here's what's happening here's when you can be a part of conversation more than once so it seems like we would want to wait for Tom to like when is Tom do that later this week is all I know 19 yeah I'll be able to check with him in with him on Friday and we can take this up I just don't want to leave I don't think I want to lose the whole week well post the agenda but I just mean yeah I just wanted to cover what Amy was talking about and be like it's not a one and done yeah for sure but I don't want to I'm going to lose the whole week because I don't have the right robust word and even like with the Washington world just get at least get in their calendar they have a calendar of events and stuff like that's free let's and you can just check in with all of us by email okay my life was on orca if we have zoom we can record ourselves right but I didn't know you don't request them right they just come thank you we appreciate you because I'm wondering especially for the first one if it makes sense for us to actively try and get a recorder so that we would also have that as a resource am I involved with scheduling when I'm not involved with that you should send send a request to the all would you be willing to do that Karen so Amy just had another suggestion which is WDV on their calendar which I can do as well all right we'll continue to look for ways to get the word out on this I think we've already I have my laundry list from Forge Farm the world's orca WDV roundabout okay so that is for the Monday of the 30th of October we're also planning the next regular schedule meeting which is Monday the 6th of November and we have that draft agenda in front of us here which includes the river of lights parade road closures public safety experience right along I believe that's Tom's suggestion that he would do right along with our new officer named Murdoch and then restorative justice presentation this is the one to which I'm inviting Jane Willard as well as Carol Plant and I was also thinking that we ideal to get a representative from the state police there because I think that's a connection that really wasn't being made when Lieutenant Nguyen made his presentation to us a month ago or so so I'm going to try to push for that as well joint meeting with EFUD on the process for municipal manager job requirements in review oh okay I thought we developed pretty robust job requirements in that process Tom's first anniversary will be on the 1st of November he started off as deputy and then moved to full town manager on the 1st of January but we'd like to have that discussion on how we're going to do his review it's already been discussed a bit informally but I know it's going to do a public thing so you invited them or were skip I did tell, I told Skip that we're going to consider inviting him in our first meeting in November and he said okay we hadn't formally decided yet so I didn't tell them for sure and editorially I might just say we should put them sooner just so they can have a little more clarity on timing also is the info meeting at 6 or is that our first agenda? I'm going to ask and note if it was two agendas I would recommend two agendas one for the informational meeting we're starting this one at 6 dedicating the first hour and then moving into select board meeting that was a question Lisa had as well and I said we'd have to decide tomorrow hello the other one is just starting at 7 the one I'm at 30th because that's the only item mm-hmm what do you think about starting at 6? I don't love it but I'm willing to do it if we need to 630 we can start at 7 630 for the meeting on the 30th no the one you're staring at the meeting on November 6 we'll stick with 7 o'clock for the 30th oh yes for November 6 we'll do the informational meeting at 630 do we need more than half an hour what do you think? maybe not okay and so then we'll start the regular agenda at 7 o'clock as printed here and then move forward let's move joint meeting with EFUD up to the top right after public mm-hmm and I can work with you other times on Friday mm-hmm anything else we'd like to see on this agenda Mike? this is not necessarily for this agenda but I thought about this and we should probably have this even kind of thinking um Jeff Kilgore our moderator is leaving and we talked about at the last town meeting doing something for him so town meeting is going to come here later and we should probably think about what we want to do you know for right and I have had a side conversation with the head of EFUD on this we'll spill all the beans because it would ruin the surprise we'll follow up with us I just wanted to get it out there I don't want to come out in my session and we're scrambled but I can inform all of you as to what the thinking is on this and I appreciate you bringing it out okay other it does look like it's a reasonably full agenda particularly with the informational meeting if anyone feels like they want to bring their commission or committee forward at this time or maybe in November you can let me know I'll say so right now restorative just to see it was in the parking lot so it is being moved forward so hey we move something out of the parking lot let everyone take notice can I put something in the parking lot oh gosh no it was just when we got that real angry email about the traffic I do want to add on Hollow Road and Guptell and Howard and Perry Hill it was your session yeah adding something to the tune of can be revisited in June of next year but in the parking lot so you're still thinking about it parking on the middle of the road leaf season traffic so it's not like what like Pamela's scene or Palm Frit nobody's stopping in the middle of the road traffic is just it does happen but it hasn't been but that's not the specific trouble that we're seeing in one of these centers it's more like standstill traffic from the beginning of Guptell to Hollow and then 100 is completely blocked and so everyone's starting to take Perry Hill which is then becoming bumper to bumper traffic and none of it makes any sense that is pretty wild I took the high road I've been having to go back and forth to Stowe for work and I was like oh there's just as much traffic up here all those stories these emails I'm just curious living across history from Coalhouse I don't know for the last 12 years did any of these emails suggest a solution the task there has been the former owners hired traffic control I don't know who it was it was the Sheriff's Department that couldn't have been cheap I worked in Stowe for years and I experienced back ups during foliage from the center of Stowe all the way to Coal Hollow it's just the way the traffic moves on that road the problem is the problem is tourists have discovered Guptell and they're like oh I could circumvent 100 and no you can't you get pinched so having to cross the street from Coal Hollow like I mentioned the Sheriff and the traffic control that they hired before they work for Coal Hollow Cider Mill so as I'm attempting to leave my residential neighborhood I'm getting a hand because we're ushering people out of Coal Cider Mill so I think an argument could be made that the Sheriff there to direct traffic doesn't necessarily solve a traffic problem we're still a ton of traffic it's not going to change it I just felt like it made it safer whereas I've been talking about close calls like the past two weeks have been wild and at least maybe it was a false sense of security felt safer that someone had an eye I thought that's not necessarily even a solution at all because it was the former owners who did it but I think frustrated so we want to end the parking lot there's several suggestions that can be made it won't 100% solve the problem but it'll relieve relieve some of the pressure a little bit I think especially on locals leave people traffic can I call with that call everyone our minor permission so people traffic put it in the parking lot for future discussion I think we're I'll stand by maybe for the next November meeting parking ordinance I would love to get parking ordinance out of the parking lot I just feel like in the spirit of our different discussions I get to an ordinance we could update now we're going to have to talk with the planning commission candidly I would be more excited to work on that than the animal control but I've only realized this at this point in the meeting so I'm just saying maybe next November meeting the second meeting November talking about parking ordinance okay I'm good with that any further recommendations not this one may be concluded we'll entertain any motion to adjourn second we'll be seconded I'll never say aye aye