 You're welcome back. Still the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Well, of course, I'm sure you might have been hearing of the latest pieces of information emanating from the war on drugs in Nigeria by the lead agency, the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency. The latest is that they have nabbed about 192 suspected drug traffickers in the Southeastern state of Eboing. But the rate of success recorded by the NDAA under the watch of the leadership or the leader, the head of that agency, has made him sort of an enigma among Nigerians. It can also be referred to as a miracle worker or a game changer because of the unprecedented success he has recorded so far. He is a Mohammed Buba Marwa retired Brigadier General and he's a chairman and chief executive officer of the National Drug Law Enforcement Agency, NDAA. He has already made history while on the saddle with a lot of drug busts and of course seizures. Having been appointed to the job, this is a top job but a dangerous job by President Mohammed Buhari in 2021. He's removed at least 5.4 kilograms of narcotics valued at about 400 billion Naira from circulation and he stole the illicit substances and cash from being utilized by drug barons for sinister motives. The latest like we said is the agency sees the 113,404 or 414 rather kilograms of cannabis sativa. This is what we hear from the agency in Nigeria's Southeastern state of Eboing. Now these are successes nonetheless from an agency that many thought was dead but these are facts that point maybe probably to a warring picture of the level of hard drugs and banned substance abuse and use in the country. Does Nigeria have a drug crisis? Now we're glad to say joining us to answer this another question pertaining to the drug situation in the country, the director general of KADAM. This is Christ Against Drug Abuse Ministry, Dokun Adeliji, who's a guest this morning. Mr. Adeliji, thank you very much for your time. Thank you very much for inviting me. Now we hear of the opioid crisis in the United States of America and the recent presidents of how to have a plan or program to tackle it. Can we see Nigeria has hard drugs and banned substances crisis going by what the NDLE has been unveiling in the past few months? The interesting thing is this is something that some of us have been saying for a long time that Nigeria has a drug problem. But we have been very resistant in accepting the reality. We used to conclude ourselves that we are just a transit nation and fortunately or maybe unfortunately in 2013 we virtually agreed that we're a user nation and most unfortunately as I speak we're a manufacturing nation. We have a crisis and I'm glad that everybody is beginning to tune into this fact raised by General Marwa that we need to wake up to this reality and do something about it unless we get consumed by it. So I'd like to ask why is it that we have more Nigerians, a lot of peasants in the business of trafficking? Prior to this time one would think that it should be limited to just a certain gender but it's encompassing and so you have not just a certain gender you have the male and the female and it's getting out of hand. So what's it with the increase participation of Nigerians in drug trafficking? Yes, can I just say to you that this is just a relative increase that you're talking about? It's been there. It does because as a people, as a nation, we are always not willing to face the issue. A characteristic nonchalance is there. If General Marwa had not come to raise the barometer of recognition that we have a problem, no, we'll still be deluded thinking that this is all the only thing to some people. I am telling you even what we're seeing is like a tip of the iceberg. The drug business is lucrative globally and everybody knows it and there is no stopping people from getting involved until we raise an issue of awareness to the point that people begin to realize that it is also of national security proportion. So if we get together on that and work together as a national team, we will get the better of this but I can tell you no matter how much any nation tries, you cannot eradicate it but you can mitigate the effect and then the spread of it across the nation so that we do not destroy our future generation. But just as a follow-up, Kofi, before then, I'd like you to show your thoughts on this, whether or not you believe that it's true because some people are alluding to the fact that the increase or the spread in drug trafficking in Nigeria is born out of the fact that it's a lot of poverty. I mean there's so much people are trying to survive. It's just another means of livelihood for a lot of peasants. Poverty and so people are just doing everything just to survive. You know my attitude to all this kind of excuses are just we are trying to create an illusion because there's poverty or because there is poverty. I just don't only call it a health poverty and the thing is look, the drug business is lucrative and do not think that those who get involved in it are poor people. The poor people that you see getting involved are just mere moves. They're just carriers. They're just bearers of this thing. Sometimes they know, sometimes they know and they get taken for what they're doing. The drug business is kind of a people that are formidable in terms of power, in terms of money. Look at the judgment that was caught in the VGC. Is that poverty? It's not poverty. But you know we like sometimes to use an umbrella to cover our lack of action or activity in dealing with circumstances. That's my view and I've been in this for a long time so I know and I've seen it. But it's characteristic of Nigeria and to find a reason. We use crutches to stand and then so we deal with it. Oh, not a problem. We are not dealing with poverty. Is there a nation that's going to eradicate poverty? No. The thing is, India is poor. Every nation is poor but do we see the same scale of drug trafficking or use? So we must begin to look at the under guiding circumstances that lead to this and that's the problem with Nigeria. You know when something happens, we just want to deal with it in a punitive manner. We never sit down to understand the dynamics, guiding those processes and how we need to deal with it. I think Nigeria is beginning to wake up a reality that we need to look in a different direction from the way we're looking. I asked you in response to my first question, you said you know what, we do have a drug crisis. Yes, and you said it's been that way for some time now. You run a ministry against drug abuse, a Christ against drug abuse ministry. And I'm sure you've been doing this for some time. I'd like you to please give us a sense of what you've seen is on the ground. We know what the NDLA is doing and we see the statistics but we don't know the details behind. So please give us a sense and an idea of what's really going on around. Okay, let me just say this to you. We have two senses. One is for undergraduates and graduate and people who work. They come there for three months program and we've seen an increase in that direction. That is what do I mean by that? That is where universities, institutions of Ireland send their students instead of speaking to them and getting them out of their education, they send them to us for rehabilitation. We have to do them and then we satisfy them. They go back to school and then they graduate. Let's say out of the 10, let me just give you a statistic. Six, seven, finally graduate and become productive people of drugs. And then we have another center in there where we see people who have chronic substance abuse disorders. And let me now tell you how this comes. When we want to admit people, we have people across the nation. We go to Abuja, we go to Benin, we go to Podakot and then we do the final one in Lagos. I can tell you the last admissions cycle was just in September. We wanted to take 100 people. We each had well over 700 people. So that is just us. And that is those who are even seeking for treatment. Do you know, can I say this to you that there is no area of Lagos, even in Nigeria, that they don't sell drugs? And I can say this to you without any fear that even today people buy drugs on the go. That is a traffic. If you walk very closely and that's why I'm saying that until we come and sit down and understand and begin to look at substance abuse as a public health issue that needs to be dealt with in that manner. Not in a criminal sense of it and then act in a punitive manner. If we do that, we're going to drive this on the ground and then people are going to continue in it and many homes will be affected without their knowing. Do you know that people can use drugs at home, even at work without their colleagues knowing? That is showing to you the ubiquitousness of substance abuse. So I can take adequately, even from disclosures that General Maher has made, and even from statistics from UNODC that were in a crisis, Nigeria has 14.4% prevalence use against 5.6% globally. That is like triple of global prevalence use rate. So in terms of numbers, that is something about 15 million Nigerians. That was three years ago. Now I can tell you about the approximation to about 25% that is about... This is quite worrying, Dokumandiliji, 14%, almost 15%, and you've given us a very important statistic there, or information, that is an important statistic whether the global average is 5%. You've talked about undergraduates and in my interaction with some people who are in this space, especially psychiatrists and mental health workers, they've also hinted that if you pay visit to the psychiatric department of various hospitals, like teaching hospitals, general hospitals, you would see that the age has been going down and down and down and down. I want to tell me what's the youngest age that you have had to treat? Number one, what's the youngest age that you've had to treat? Number one, number two, what are the kinds of drugs that are being used most? Yeah, you find. And that's number two. Number three, what is responsible for this? Because I saw a report last week that says that the intake into the psychiatric wards are on the increase because of the economic situation. People are trying to cook, so please answer these questions here. The youngest you've seen, the reason and the kind of drugs that are being used. Let me tell you something. In terms of our own facilities, we don't take anybody less than 18 into rehab. The others, less than that, we cancel it. And that's why the advice is so important that we let people know the dangers of substance abuse. But if I tell you in terms of when we go out to the joint, where people sit down to buy this thing that they use, I've seen people of about age eight, nine doing drugs. And you know, because of their availability, we take them into what kind of drugs. Look, let me tell you this morning, it's so difficult to have a complete collage of drugs that people use, but let me go like this. We have social acceptable alcohol. People don't consider it a drug, but it is one of the most dangerous drugs at the legal. The ratio is working on transportation now so that we can reduce the use, figure out, and then you come to illegal use, like cannabis, like Kong, like cocaine, heroin and all the rest. And you know the danger that I won't be emphasizing in this category of illegal, there are now something you call synthetic marijuana, which is what is so common today, something like loud, American loud, Canadian loud, Arizona, Colorado, and what people do in law. Those things are no frank weed in terms of weed of cannabis at Eva. What happens in Arizona? What happens in Colorado and loud in the father? The component of cannabis is just about 10 to 11 percent. The rest of it is made of herbs and chemicals. And that's why you are saying increase in tabernacles because when they use those things, not necessarily consequence upon cannabis, but upon those other constant ones, of the Colorado and Arizona. If you hear people say FK is kong, people think it's weed. It is not hair weed. There's a bit of weed in it, and there's dry leaves of purple, and then there's also cooking in it. And so if you then leave the leg is illegal, and then you then come to pharmaceutical drugs, that is drugs that can be prescribed, prescription drugs, drugs that can be prescribed not before, benefit, medical benefit, but people have found that benefit in using them. Something like codeine, something like tramador. Tramador today is the ring of the movement because let me say this. In hospitals, we use tramador to treat moderate and severe cases of pain, and usually they will never give you more than 50 milligrams or 100 milligrams for a number of days. But the tramador that is told outside that is imported into Nigeria starts from 225 milligrams to 250 milligrams to 500 milligrams. It starts on milligrams, and these are things produced in other countries that come with Nigeria's import. And then you wait, then you go to derivative, and they also come like fentanyl, not fentanyl. And fentanyl is one day turns more potent than hair weed. And these are things that are available in Nigeria. Those are, you know, there are so many things like injection fentanyl, that is given to people by the early state class when they have to get pain. It's so available they call you for treatment in pharmacy that you can get it off the counter. People use it. And then you come, let me just end with this, and then you have something you call miscellaneous. How can you categorize petrol? How can you categorize glue, or a boost stick, or a nail polish remover, or peak lacquering? So that's what we call the substance abuse. And then you did, I mean, I can't remember the thought question. I asked the reasons behind... Okay, yes, yes. Okay, the reasons are multiple. At each substance abuse person comes. Some people will say family problems, they're much more than disillusioned. Some will say poverty. Some will say generally availability. And also experimental use and social use, particularly among young people. They want to belong. There's poor self-esteem. They want to be like their friends, peer pressure. So it's so very... Some use it experimental and then they get good on it. And obviously we just want to feel good about it. I did it. Let's quickly look at this as we round it up this morning with the issue of... Let's come back to the issue of trafficking. Okay. We know that there's a punishment. I mean, there are laws that are against trafficking and of course the offence is punishable on conviction with a sentence of live imprisonment when you look at section 11 of the Act. But my question goes, why is drug trafficking still thriving despite the laws that we have against it? I will also say a question to you. Why is armed robbery still prevailing in spite of death penalty? You see, the thing is people look at very face. If I carry this same one, I can make a million dollars. What are the chances that I can be caught? You know, so people feel like a lottery. Let me do it. If I make money, I get it. If I don't make money, they catch me and then I suffer the penalty. And also he allows people to now have a caterer. The next thing I say, how do we break people like marijuana? How do we circumvent all these activities? The best set of different, the pursuit of penetrating every agency that could be involved. And then you don't see business. You know, until, as I said, until we begin to understand what these does to our national psyche and international recognition and how people look at us and also what it does to our national security and so we sit down slightly. We understand all these things. We don't start from the mental issues and then you just want to catch them and punish them. We will be missing the point. Or we want to ban. When you ban, you create a lucrative market for those who are important. Then they increase the price and then they become clad in time and then you can catch them and also encourage general marijuana to do much more. And they say that is it possible that politically we can have the backbone to say have legislation. Not only to ban, but to say everyone who wants to seek employment everyone wants to be looted. Not because we want to punish but little people don't want to do. What do you think those people that are thugs that they carry around to be thugs? What do they feed them on? They feed them on drugs. So they're also not scared. They don't want to do anything. We want that the political ways as long as together with an attempt to do something. We will be lucrative as long as there is money in it. Very interesting. You say that it will be lucrative as long as there is money in it and you are advocating for not just banning and enforcement of the laws but also testing. If you want to seek employment you'll be tested. If you want to run for political office you'll be tested. But looking at the methods I'd like you to tell us very quickly what you think about the idea of the direction the western world is moving in which is on banning marijuana. Seeing it as a recreational drug a medicinal drug and all that and soft peddling on that because of the impact on the communities and saying if there are harder drugs and drugs that do more damage than marijuana and you're not being arrested for that we're going to have to reverse the laws and say you can take marijuana for... Yes. You said that the way that the world is moving and it's moving to precipitate of destruction and I can tell you can I tell you that lately in British Columbia in Canada they have said that no cocaine is a banned drug but you can have a certain number of ounces on you if they find it on you they will not punish you you know if the world begins to suffer the consequences will come and when the... look at what is happening in America a man gets up walks into it who kills people you think it's just because he has metal... where is the metal if you come in from? there are also many actually and also you know that in Ohio and all those states in the western zones of America there's not a lot of peers and you know one thing they found in Colorado they found me and stayed there legalized marijuana nobody will tell you thereafter where they did survey on the patients coming into casualty the fact that was an upstart in the people that were coming in with active psychosis but you see they think the world is running the world is like to be culture we want to be... they can do what they choose but I would suggest as a nation that we be careful the kind of things we do they may be working for them in detrimental here because we have no control over the basic drugs or basic elements even prescription drugs and when you allow those kind of things to come in here and then you begin to justify you can use in the treatment do people know that even if you use of cannabis or cannabinoids in the treatment of infantile epilepsy it is not general the same result is not gotten in every case of infantile epilepsy so we need to be very methodical and careful in approaching these issues and we don't just know the global of people who are the base in their culture and allowing these things these all kinds of things they say have reduction and all the rest it's up to them but for me as a Nigerian I would say we be very careful we cannot forget alright thank you so much Dokoan Daily G one hour will not be enough to exhaust the issues around drug use in Nigeria but I think the thesis of what you said is that we have a drug crisis in the country Dokoan Daily G director general of Christians of Christ against drug abuse ministry in Nigeria thank you so much for your time and please keep up the work that you're doing thank you very much I appreciate it have a good morning