 Welcome to our luncheon program of this second annual USIP dialogue on war legacies and peace in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. I hope you're benefiting from the last day and a half now of sessions. I'm David Yong. I'm a vice president at the US Institute of Peace. I'll be your moderator for this session. The wounds of war are both physical and psychological, of course. That's why reconciliation between former combatants requires dealing with both. The issue of wartime remains or lost souls bridges the two realms. We look for physical remains because finding them will provide loved ones with a profound peace of mind. So for 50 years, the search for wartime remains or lost souls has occupied a central place in the war legacies agenda. Indeed, key parts of the Paris peace accords of 1973 were devoted to this topic. And I quote, the party shall help each other to get information about those military personnel and foreign civilians of the party's missing in action to determine the location and take care of the graves of the dead so as to facilitate the exhumation and repatriation of the remains. And to take any such measures as may be required to get information about those considered still missing in action. We're honored to host the senior US official in charge of continuing to advance this core goal. Mr. Kelly McKee. Kelly is director of the Defense POW MIA Accounting Agency at the Defense Department. I'll call this for short DPAA. DPAA's mission is to provide the fullest possible accounting of US missing personnel accounting to their families and to the American public. Kelly was appointed as director of DPAA in 2017, a full six years ago. Before that, he had a 34 year career in the US Air Force. He retired in 2015 at the rank of Major General. His last two posts were very pertinent to his new job. They were commander of POW MIA, the accounting command at Pearl Harbor, and then deputy director of the then newly created DPAA agency. Kelly, welcome. Thanks so much for being with us today. Thank you, David. It's a privilege. And thank you for your leadership. So DPAA is now eight years old, either as director or deputy director. You've been involved for most of those eight years. Could you, we start our discussion by you're providing us with an overview of DPAA's mission and given your history on this topic. If you could explain to those uninitiated to this particular issue of the great milestones during this 50 year reconciliation journey. As David mentioned, it truly is a reconciliation initiative. That dates back again to the Paris peace accords. But I think more importantly, it was Vietnam and trusting this objective and pursuing it with vigor. It took until 1981 for the first technical talks to occur in Hanoi between US officials and Vietnamese officials and led by foreign minister talk at the time. Vietnam embarked upon these discussions. And for several years, these discussions would go back and forth as to how do we go about tangibly implementing the objectives of the Paris peace accord when it comes to remains recovery and more importantly repatriation. Vietnam in August of 1981 turned over the first two sets of remains. Back and forth with additional technical talks with diplomatic initiatives with various meetings both in New York at the United Nations as well as in Hanoi. We finally had the first US officials, military officials on the ground in Vietnam in May of 1985. Now this is 10 years after the end of the war. It also was 10 years before normalization. And here Vietnam was reaching out openly trying to again utilize what we look at this as a tool of diplomacy to begin the healing process, to begin reconciliation with the United States. And it's not lost on any of us that have been long working this mission to find Americans missing from the war. That the comprehensive strategic partnership that President Biden and General Secretary Chonk announced on Sunday. Vietnam's cooperation on remains recovery of Americans really was a foundational building block to what we now appreciate with not just where we've come as two nations, former enemies, but more importantly, the bright, prosperous, secure, stable future that leads to not just improvements in the region, but I would submit also in the world. Now all of this began literally with the families of both Americans that were prisoners of war, as well as families of Miss Americans that were missing in action. And these families began a grassroots concerted campaign back in 1970 to raise the nation's consciousness that these men and women could not, should not, and would not be forgotten. From that came the operation homecoming, the return of American POWs. And as I pointed out, what began and now is in its 35th year of remains, searching for remains as well as recovering and then identifying those returning them to their families. David, you mentioned a great point that these are lost souls. We have with us two family members, in fact daughters, whose fathers died in the war. One, we were successful in recovering her father in 1996, and the other is still waiting for answers. Ladies and gentlemen, I think it's important to recognize that again, if not for Vietnam's cooperation, again, keep in mind this is 1985, 10 years after the war, 10 years before normalization, Vietnam began cooperating with the United States on this very important building block in terms of establishing not only a relationship, but now a partnership. And again, with many of you here working other war legacy issues, all of those followed that engender trust and confidence with where we are today. Thank you, Kelly, for that introduction and overview. So you've been in place for six years now. You have a wonderful team over 700 people. You worked with Congress to consolidate three different operations to form DPAA. Give us a sense of the last six years, what some of the specific initiatives you and your team have wanted to do. What were some of the challenges? What are you proudest of? We work in 45 countries, statutorily by Congress. We are bounded by World War II, all the way through Operation Iraqi Freedom and everything in between there. And so it really begins with archival research. And as we work with our Vietnamese counterparts, that's where the subject material really takes place. Because with those archival information, those archival history and records, we're able to narrow down an area that might be this big to a smaller area, thereby sending a joint investigation team to hopefully narrow it down to a smaller area, at which point we will send an archaeologist, an anthropologist and a small team to again jointly work with our Vietnamese counterparts to excavate and hopefully find remains. Should the remains be found, they are brought back to one of two laboratories, one in Hawaii and one in Nebraska for the laborious and meticulous step of forensically identifying those remains and putting a name and a face upon which we are able to return them to their families. Thank you. Kelly, DPAA has done an excellent job training teams in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Can you give us some of the specifics of how it's been to train those teams and how they were independently or in tandem with your office? So as I mentioned, we work in 45 countries all over the world. Wherever Missing American died in combat, it begins and that's why I use the term tool of diplomacy. It begins obviously with getting permission from the host nation. And with that permission from that permission comes what our operations. Now, in the majority of places in the world, we will operate independently in Europe and the South Pacific. There are instances in Southeast Asia where we are jointly working with our host nation counterparts. The model was set with Vietnam in 1985 with the first joint excavation that then culminated with joint sustained operations in 1988. I believe we just completed our 151st joint field activity with Vietnam. What's interesting to note is among all the 45 countries we work in, there are only two that we entrust with unilateral excavation. South Korea is one and Vietnam is the other. And that capability is a result of, again, that 35-year track record of joint operations, but more importantly, a willingness on Vietnam's part to learn and more importantly, to train with us on how to conduct an excavation. And they've done that with great success, with great skills. Later on, I'll talk about two examples of where their unilateral excavation came to bear bore fruit in terms of not only finding remains, but then more importantly, those remains being identified as missing Americans. But Vietnam also helps us with archival research. And so obviously they have access to records not only at the federal level, but also at the provincial level. And again, those archival records are important to narrowing down areas for future searches. And I applaud the fact that after 35 years of this joint activity, several years ago, as many of you know, Vietnam embarked upon their own accounting initiative, which both the Department of Defense and USAID are helping Vietnam stand up this capability, not just to search for their missing, but also to forensically identify them. You mentioned a couple examples you'd like to share. Yesterday, we were talking about how COVID threw a wrench into your planning, particularly with the excellent Vietnamese counterparts. But you were together able to creatively surmount those challenges. Please share your stories with us. Like the rest of the world, we were shut down when COVID first hit in March of 2020. At the time, we had 45 teams deployed all over the world. We immediately brought them home. And for the next 11 months, we were stuck at home, not able to travel. As the world tried to figure out what this pandemic was all about, how to mitigate it, how to respond to it. In the midst of that, Vietnam, through those US trained teams approached us and said, let us go do some of these unilateral excavations. Over that course of that time, they ended up doing 16 unilateral excavations. Finding remains at two of them. Those remains have been identified subsequent to that recovery. The first was a Navy Commander Paul Charvet lost off of Hanh May Island. We identified Commander Charvet after again our Vietnamese counterparts found remains. Paul Charvet had a 101 year old mother. 101 year old mother. He also had two older sisters that were in their 20s when he went missing. I remember this distinctly is the older says his older sister went to his mother Blanche who was in a nursing home. And she said to her mother, she said, Mom, I have some phenomenal news without missing a beat. Blanche Paul's mom said Paul's coming home. His sister said, how do you know that? Eyes clear as day. Looked up at her and said, I've always known he would be coming home. Now, the Charvet family would not have had answers had it not been for the unilateral excavation and work of our counterpart, the Vietnamese office for seeking missing persons. Second vignette I would offer is in June. Again, this unilateral excavation found a Air Force crash site remains recovered. We identify as both the pilot, Colonel Ernest the Soto and the navigator, Captain Fred Rick Hall, Commander, Colonel the Soto was buried in June in his hometown of San Bruno, California, outside of San Francisco. His widow never remarried. His three kids are now adults, two sons and a daughter. They brought their father, their husband home. The navigator Captain Frederick Hall will be buried next month in his hometown of Wainsboro, Wainsville, North Carolina. Again, his widow, his childhood friends will be there to welcome Frederick Hall home to North Carolina. Again, those remains would not turn into a face. And a name had it not been for the unilateral efforts of our counterpart, the VNO SMP. Thank you for those very moving stories, Kelly. And thanks to Mr. Wong and his team for incredible work you're doing. Kelly, can you tell us a little bit more? You mentioned that families of the lost souls were originally pushing, pushing, pushing the US government to actually implement the words of the Paris Peace Accords. Can you give us some sense of how you work on a daily, weekly basis with families like Janies? We're still searching for their loved ones. So DPA has two missions. Obviously, the first one is to account as fully as possible for missing Americans from past wars. The second just as equally important is to connect and communicate with their families. And so we do this by establishing relationships and connections with families. We meet them throughout the country. We meet with them throughout the country. We host annually here in Washington a meeting for the Vietnam War Families and annually a meeting for the Korean and Cold War Families. It's an opportunity for them to not only receive updates on their particular case, but also to enable them to connect with each other. And this effort that began as a grassroots campaign truly blossomed into an awareness that President Reagan in 1989 established a national mandate, a national priority for the United States to again account as fully as possible for its missing from past wars. You mentioned to me yesterday that a different part of the Department of Defense and USAID supports our Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian colleagues searching for their own war remains. But it's a flip side of your mission of DPAA. Could you just tell us how you liaise with USAID and other DOD counterparts in that mission, that flip side mission? So it's no different. It begins with archival research. And so the Department of Defense working with Harvard University as well as Texas Tech University are in the midst of compiling for Vietnamese researchers, archival records, wartime records that might lead to the ability to pursue an excavation that might lead to an opportunity to pursue, again, finding and repatriating those remains. Concurrently, USAID working with the International Commission of Missing Persons out of Geneva is helping Vietnam stand up and build out a forensic capability that one day will allow them to put a name and a face to a set of remains. And that initiative is in its nascent seat. There's a steering committee that Vietnam established, as many of you know, Committee 515 several years ago, that is leading this initiative. And again, through the efforts of USIP, who are assisting that, we have offered technical expertise to USAID through its ICMP partner in Geneva. And we're very excited about, again, what this means. Ladies and gentlemen, here's where I think, whether beyond just being a tool of diplomacy, why this is an initiative, this is a goal and objective, a reconciliation act that builds trust and confidence and enhances nation to nation relationships, simply because it starts at the people to people level. From the very first moment that our teams went into Vietnam in 1985, obviously, we had government officials working jointly with us. But our teams that do these, this work, whether it be an investigation or a recovery mission, they do so with the support of numerous villagers that support the work. Oftentimes in harsh conditions, oftentimes in remote areas. And I'm struck by the fact that at that people to people level. These villagers were warm, were gracious. And despite having suffered personally, with losses within their own family, they helped in this effort. And over the years, 35 years to be exact, that people to people interaction has increased. I don't know the origins of the 515 effort. However, I would surmise that it was because these Vietnamese villagers started asking their government, we're here to help the United States. We don't mind helping. In fact, they almost embraced this, this opportunity. But what about our families? What about our missing? Just a conjecture on my part, what I would surmise that it was because of that assisting in people to people interactions over the years, that they in turn, much like our families, emboldened our government to begin this national priority and this national effort. Similarly, Vietnam has now established the same priority. I have one last question, but I invite all of you to begin coming up here. If you have your own question, there's the stand up mic right here. My last question is more a reverie of sorts. So yesterday, if all of you don't know, parallel to this meeting, Kelly's team and Mr. Wong's team are having their annual technical talks, located for the first time in Washington DC, as opposed to Hanoi. And they conducted those talks last night. I don't know if they're continuing into today. But at the kickoff luncheon for the technical talks between the two teams, Mr. Wong and Kelly gave very passionate moving toasts to each other's teams and each other's countries. And what I took away from both of those toasts was that, as Kelly has repeated today, that actually, the war remains cooperation has virtually really no kidding been a building block, the building block of US-Vietnamese cooperation that has now culminated in the comprehensive strategic partnership. Yet, of the roughly 2,600 Americans on account of 4, 1,200 still remain on account of 4. More work is still to be done. I have confidence in Kelly and Mr. Wong's leadership to stay the course. My question, Kelly, is, are you worried paradoxically, perhaps, that that grand new comprehensive strategic partnership ushering in new cooperation, the economic areas, climate change, etc., etc. Will in any sense dwarf the founding, founding link between Vietnam and the United States? I think there's a potential for that to happen, but I am absolutely confident that it will not happen. Simply because both President Biden and General Secretary Chunk, in their joint statement, included a paragraph about not only the past commitment, but also that this joint activity would continue to define the partnership between the United States and Vietnam. So I'm confident of that fact. I'm also confident of the fact that now that Vietnam is embarking upon a parallel similar mission, that there will be mutual opportunities for us to continue to provide, search for and provide answers to families. Look at this 50-year record. So the VNOSMP was established as a provision within the Paris Peace Accords, just celebrated the 50th anniversary. I mentioned 35 years of joint operations with the United States. And here we are, 10 years of a comprehensive partnership, embarking upon a comprehensive strategic partnership. And I would only offer this not to end on a download, but just oppose what's happening with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. A war that ended in 1953, there are still 7,500 Americans missing, 5,300 of which are in North Korea. There are no communications. Although this was used in the past as again, building trust and confidence, the last time our teams were in North Korea was in 2005. Chuck supposed a difference. And you see how one country's trust, overture in the midst of economic sanctions in the midst of just devastating losses, trying to rebuild their country 10 years after the war end of the war. And here we are on the cusp of a bright, prosperous, stable, peaceful, secure future. Indeed, please. Good afternoon. I'm John McCullough from the Fund for Reconciliation and Development. I want to mention three names of people whose shoulders were standing on who saw the POW, MIA issue as the way to get to normalization. And that, of course, was General John Vessie, Colonel Dick Childress, and Mills Griffiths. Dick, in particular, I was working for the Quakers for the Friends Service Committee at that point. And he and I had many hours of conversation in which he convinced me that even though that was not a priority, obviously from people from the US peace movement, that that was in fact the way to open the issue of normalization with leading with high levels in the United States. So I think those we should remember those three people and their contribution to this. I had two questions. One is, you talked about people to people, Vietnam veterans of America from when it was founded by Bobby Mueller and John Tarzano, and then its later iteration have always made a priority trying to get their members to provide information from their combat experience that would help to meet the question of missing Vietnamese. So I wondered if you mentioned the two universities, but I wonder if you have also an ongoing relationship with them. The second question is just to take you back to the earlier days. The big problem that Senator Kerry and McCain and the people I mentioned faced was this lobby of advocates for the concept that there were Americans still held alive in Vietnam. And you begin you see echoes of that in contemporary American life and denialism on a variety of issues. And I don't know whether you reflect on that community which is now I think disappeared. I mean, maybe there's still people out there writing things about the Americans that are buried or underground or somewhere in Vietnam. But where do you think that came from? Was that just people's inability to come to terms with the reality of what had happened? Or was that in fact, a political agenda that that issue was used to try to prevent normalization? I'll work backwards. Obviously, there are conspiracy theorists for pick a subject. I can assure you that everything we've seen, there is no credible evidence of a missing American left behind against his will in Vietnam or anywhere in Southeast Asia. We do work closely not with just the VBA but also other veteran service organizations like the FW. We've actually taken veterans from those organizations to sites and they have been very helpful. It's amazing the recall that these veterans have for war that ended in 1973. I mean, they can take us they can take the team literally and talk about blades of grass branches of trees. And it's amazing. And we've been very successful with some of those. You mentioned three great Americans, Dick Childress worked for the National Security Council. He was assigned to work with General Vessie, who was the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, charged with leading this effort. And Ann Mills Griffiths is very known to this audience for her decades of indomitable service, tired dogged service. And those three individuals made many trips, both to Hanoi, to New York all over the world, starting out as technical talks, and then moving toward again, how can we translate concepts into actually boots on the ground with putting a shovel in the ground with which to, again, find missing Americans. Dick has been a longtime advisor to the National League of Families, the organization that formed in 1970. And Ann Mills Griffiths is still its chairman. Absolutely. This was not a, and that's a great point, this was not an end to itself. Again, I think President Reagan was very clear in his direction that this was going to be an interagency effort, that this was going to be the US government coming together, and then reaching out to the Vietnamese government to, again, embark upon discussions. And it was in 1985, that the largest at the time since the war, 26 remains were turned over by Vietnam. And that preceded the first joint excavation that occurred in 1985. Thank you, John, for your questions. Are there other questions from the audience? Please. Dave Huffman with Mission POWMI. Would you let everybody know about the increased scope and pace due to the budget enhancements? I think it's very encouraging and it's something that should interest everyone here. It is. Thanks, Dave. By the way, Dave heads up a new organization of families that are that represent losses from all conflicts. He and his wife Cheney established this new organization Mission POWMI and again, to build advocacy. For the longest time, we were dependent upon largesse. I use that word fondly from Congress. Obviously hearing from their constituents, families, veterans. For many years, Congress would afford us an increase in our annual budget. For those of you that are business people, you know that that's not a way to run a successful business. So two years ago, we petitioned the Pentagon, the Department of Defense to increase our budget simply because time is our biggest enemy. Particularly in Southeast Asia, we're losing remains, both to natural conditions. The soil acidity in Southeast Asia has a pH of a lemon. And so remains are often degrading literally by the day, leaving us oftentimes only with teeth. Remains are also subject to loss due to manmade development where there be structing a dam that leads to reservoir, train track, housing development. And thankfully, our counterparts are very much aware of where these potential sites are. And should there be a site threatened by again, development, urbanization or what have you, they will make it a priority with which to pursue that particular site. So we presented the argument that time is our biggest enemy. Numbers are staggering. And so again, witnesses firsthand witnesses, especially in Southeast Asia, are passing or losing their memory are dying. And so it's incumbent upon us that if this remains a national priority, that we must have the resources with with with which to do that. And please to see that our argument earned some acknowledgement or importantly, it earned us money. So we will enter this next fiscal year in 2024 with a 40% increase, thereby allowing us in the case of Vietnam to triple the number of joint field activities that we had from this year to next. And to their credit, Vietnam has agreed in those technical talks last night, that they have the means and the capacity with which to support that increased scale and scope. Thank you. Andrew, we're almost out of time. So I'll take the last question more. And this returns to my introductory theme of the physical versus psychic psychological wounds of war. So we at USIP consider Kelly an American peace builder par excellence. And we value your leadership. The same for Mr. Wong and his colleagues. So as international peace builders, my question for you Kelly is, it's a version of leases our president's question to opening plenary yesterday and to Senator Merkley this morning. And that is she didn't put it this way. But let me put it this way. A cynic could say that US Vietnamese reconciliation has been a simply a product of geopolitical self interest on both parts. It has nothing to do with human to human spirit to spirit reconciliation. But I think all of us peace builders know that the human spirit and the human animal is more complicated than that. So to paraphrase Lisa's question, what would be your distilled lessons from both the half century journey and the parts of it that you walk Kelly for future reconcilers, whether they're Ukrainian, Russian, or Afghan and American, or whatever. And just from a very personal perspective, the consequences of war, as you all know, are devastating. The human impacts, the societal impacts are just mine, numbingly, mind boggling, devastating. If we can somehow take a war, which cynic would argue wars are inevitable, and mitigate those consequences through legacy issues like remains recovery, like unexploded ordinance removal, like dioxin remediation, then we can at least at least put a solve on what is really an open wound, and will remain an open wound simply open wound simply because of the personal loss that individuals, families, societies have experienced from any war. And if we're able to do that through efforts that many of you all rep many of you all represent, there's hope for the future. Now, would these war legacy initiatives, this reconciliation initiatives serve as a deterrent for future wars? Human nature tells me not so. However, at least there's an avenue that should there be a war in the future, much like one is ongoing all over several places in the world today, that efforts are being made proactively to be at the ready so that when hostility ceases, that we can use this human to human interaction, this peace building, this reconciliation initiatives, with which to restore hope, with which to restore trust among not just two nations, but among its peoples. And that's where the non cynic side of me tells me that the goodness that we're doing now is a blueprint. Should it ever be required in the future? And by the way, we have been asked by other countries to assist them in their wartime recovery efforts. Vietnam I mentioned South Korea is another one. And these countries again recognize that healing at least the loss of these families and their loved ones is one step forward in terms of restoring again, that nation to nation trust, and that people to people trust. Thank you, Kelly. Please join me in thanking Kelly for his leadership and his participation today.