 Hello, Tom. Sorry for the late start, just copying our page over, and then I'll share our agenda for today. Let me get logged in. Time shifts are a bear. Hey, Roto. Good. Just getting a little bit of a late start. Time shifts are tough. Yeah, I'm also an airport, so. Okay, I need to drop. No worries. Might be a shorter one today, depending. We'll see. Tom, if you'd like to come off mute, I don't know if you had been talking before, but I hadn't heard anything. But if you wanted to start giving us an update, I've seen a bunch of of your work going. While I get the page set up, we'd be happy to hear how things are going. I think I saw the peer did to work and some other things. I don't know if you're still trying to talk, but you're on mute. Okay. I don't see anything in the chat. So I don't know, maybe Tom can't come off mute. But that's okay. All right. So let me publish our page. I see him. He's here. Hey. Hey. Did you, did you want to give us some updates on your Nessus work? Yeah, I can. I can just a quick one. I looked at did peer. Did peer. I'll go to and try to rework the, you know, the out of band invitation thing. So that's the, the document attachment is optional. Right. So, so what we now have is, is I got rid of the. Did conv2 switch command line switch or yeah, because I assume that the other side speaks did conv2. And if the other side is Agapai, I know that it doesn't. Right. So if I talk to Agapai, then it uses the old protocols. So there's no need to, to switch anymore and, and get protocol confusion. But I must say, I'm, I'm generally not so clear about how, how this is supposed to work, right. And with, with it peer number go to and, and the reason is that the inviter generates the invitation. And the invitation now contains just the did, you know, which can be resolved and an endpoint can be discovered from the data. And the did happens to be did peer. And, and then of course the, the invitee can make the connection and so on. But what I'm not clear about is, is that invitation is seems to be in a sense it seems to be public. Right. So, so whoever gets their hands on the invitation right has, has at least a did an endpoint to connect to and, and the invitee doesn't really know, you know, whether, whether that invitation is really coming from, from the intended invitee. Right. So, so this is a thing. I'm sort of, I'm aware of that this is a chicken and egg problem. Right. And maybe this has been solved in a, you know, more intelligent way, or maybe this is by design, the way it is, you know, but, but, but that was a, you know, what do you say, a tripping stone, right. So tripping point. Then you have the same issue with the tier one, right. Yeah, of course. This is not chicken egg. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, this, this is not, this is not. It's not coming from it pier two. It's a general issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 16 is public. So I can read, maybe if you are, you can generate in your wallet and show to only one people, but that's, that's the only duration that you can trust, right. If you show personally, you know, the private place, okay, this is only for you. You see it, I know, but you scan it. And, but then I think that the way to work is, well, after that, you start with that connection. You have this upper layer protocols and trying to find something on that. Yeah, but in a way, it's, in a way, it's the root of trust, isn't it. You know, because if, if your invitation falls in the wrong hands, then the other party can pretend to be whoever, right. And, and I'm fully aware that this is probably very much related to the old did to the old key exchange problem. Right. So that's always a very hard one, I think, although I don't know much about it. But, you know, I'm just saying that, that this is the current state of my understanding and right. And it is, it is that way. Yeah. The only thing that you can do is just ask for it. Also, maybe you, if you like the credential, you can make better know. It's, it's very choppy. I don't, I don't hear you properly, Rodolfo, unfortunately. Yeah, I caught it just a little bit on my end. I'm going to move to another place. Yeah. Yeah, he's in the airport. Can you hear me? Okay. Tom, can you hear me? Okay. Let me try this. Okay. Then brodo, I think you were pretty good. So I think, I think that was on Tom's end. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I hear you well. And there was like a little, it was like a little bit wavy, but I could understand you, you know, very well. So I think that's on Tom's end. Yeah, it's interesting the idea of asking for credential. I mean, we can talk about it when Tom comes back, but here he is. Tom, how do we sound now? I just got rid of. I got rid of my screen. Yeah, you, Tom, that was interesting. So Rodo was mostly clear for me and your video was clear and your audio was clear. But yeah, I think something happened on maybe your end. If I wasn't clear, because well, maybe my, my connections also have problems. No, it's clearly on my end. Okay. Can you hear me well now? Yeah. Yeah, what I'm saying, Tom, is maybe after you, yeah, you, you, you share this out of ban, then the, the inviter should, should maybe ask for a credential or something that you can make your, yeah, to validate something extra and see if you're talking to the right person. Yeah, but I think that's the way, yeah. That's the way. Okay. So this is, first you establish the connection, and then you get the trust pin going so both sides know who to talk to and, and then they need to have some other form of authenticating each other. Is that what you are saying? Yes, yes, right. So but we did only, yeah, yes, this concert, so you know, if you, the intuitions, you know, there are the other nations, right? That's every time we did the same, right? And we don't go with those credential, I see. Sorry for the noise, right? Yeah. Yeah, he's in the airport. Yeah, it's a good question. So as a side effect of this, yeah, the did peer, so that the project from sigma has been dormant for some time in nine months or so. So, so that needed to get resurrected before I can actually integrate it. Yeah. So as a, as a side effect, there's a few, you know, commits to, to the did peer project that bring it up to speed to current Kotlin compilers and so on and so there was some issue with the document serialization as well. So that got fixed. So, so the, the did peer project now, at least in the Java space is, is usable again, you know, so so that is, not sure if it's really that much useful in Nessus but but it's, you know, maybe better than what we had before. And, and also, if you're interested, I have another funny story. I tried to connect with, with the decentralized identity foundation with div, right. So and and I was asking, I was asking whether IBM or redhead is already a member of the diff, right. And so the managing director came back to me Claire Claire something I forgot her surname. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, and she, you know, she seemed to be very excited that somebody from IBM is asking and she wanted to set up a voice thing and everything right. But, but I'm in no position right to speak in the name of IBM, of course, right, not even in the name of redhead not even in the name of my team in redhead right. So, and, and I asked what what it would actually cost, right and what it would cost and and what would the benefits be for, for our organization to to, to, to join and, and the answer was well you know, IBM has more than 10,000 employees so it would be 50k a year right 50k. And I said okay thank you very much and I'll talk to people. I'll talk to a few people and see what I can do right and five months later she says, Oh, you know, it could be 10k if that makes a difference right. Well, yeah. Okay, very nice but I don't know if it makes a difference I still need to talk to people. Selling, selling the stuff. This is where it, this is where it ended. And I'm actually now, you know, I'm really trying to sell the idea I'm really trying to, to sell that technology and and I'm always as you know you know I'm making the, the, the use case with with the airport, the unnamed airport right and, and, and I think it would be usually beneficial if, if that tech would actually eventually, you know, be in our integration product, because that's what we do you know we integrate stuff right. And, and so, but, you know, and, and our end. It only resonates with my, you know, with my manager really, you know, he's very supportive. Right, but, but he is sort of, you know, keeping my, my back clear and allows me to, to work on this stuff when time permits right. You know, it seems that, that we have, we have priority company strategy and everything, every little thing has to be directly related to company strategy. Right, so, so if this is not company strategy, you know, I can do this, more or less in my spare time right and of course, you know, this this is a flexible definition what spare time actually is but, but yeah I wish I wish there would be more resonance in in redhead or IBM. So if you know somebody in IBM, who I can talk to, you know, that that would be great. Right. I know they had a, they had a supply chain group. I know it's blockchain related. But nobody related to to did come. Right. So, right. So this is at least how far I got. And this is why I'm telling you this right so this is where it stands. Yeah, because I was hoping you know if I, if I can actually find somebody from IBM, then maybe they can pay for me coming to to the meeting. Right. Yeah. I'm trying to remember the last time there was an IBM person in what meeting. Maybe Roto also has come across some IBM folks, but I definitely came across an IBM person. The last month or two. I want to say it might have been the OWF open wallet foundation. I don't recall. Okay. Yeah. Well, I'll keep an eye out for that. For sure. And certainly roots ID is no stranger to do as much as we can in our free time while we have far customer work. Yeah, customer specific work. Speaking of IW, you know, I mean, we are certainly trying to get as much going for there in terms of the airport. For example, I think probably that would be like a fall thing that we would shoot for because as best as I can tell the spring IW did come. The two stuff will be just showing, you know, interaction messaging basic messaging and you know maybe a couple other protocols between agents from different vendors. If we can say it that way. So next week, if you like, you know, or the week after, I could do another demo and I have credentials ready verifiable credentials more or less ready. So I hope to have, I hope to have the, the airport example completed. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it would work with what what portion of the airport credit. Yeah, like which credential for for the airport scenario. All of them. All of them. Okay. Yeah, all of them. So, so it starts with, you know, it starts with a schema and I could, I can show how you, how you define the schema and then I can show you how you, how you create verifiable credentials and how you, and how the verifier can use these open policy agent OPA. I think so, so it's, it can use, you can apply all sorts of verification policies to verify the credential right in that, in that special language. It's not what it's called, but it but OPA is the thing you wouldn't want to be looking at. And, and the roadblock I hit there was conception conceptual roadblock was, was that you can verify. Well, you can verify the credential as a whole. Right. But it's not possible to disclose just certain attributes from it. Yeah. So, so that was, of course, you know, I thought that might be tricks. Right. So if a verifier asks you for, for a presentation, you could go in that time, you could go back to the issuer and asked the issuer to provide you with a verifiable credential that just contains the that the verifier asked for, but, but this would this approach would surely not scale of course right and yeah, and, and the way to go seems to be zero knowledge proofs. Right. What type of credentials are you using? W3C credentials, would that be. Which one. Okay. W3C JSON LD. That is a question of representation. Yeah, but, but yes. Okay. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, they selected this cluster. You're going to have to use an inquiry. Right. We go with backup. You can use it because it's. Yeah. Does. So, are we saying that JSON LD doesn't provide selective disclosure. I think no unless you have this BBS class. Oh, option that is not available. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So. Right, but a non creds would be more complicated. Okay. So, is this something that we could show in roots wallet in the near term? What would we need to do in order to interact with Tom? I think we, I'm sorry. Are you asking Rodolfo? I'm sorry. Yeah, but either of you, I mean, you know, if, if we can speak did come be to obviously that's that helps, but I, I. Remember if we've displayed JSON LD credentials in roots wallet and what, what else are we missing? We need to check that if with Alex if there's. Okay. How far are we with that? But yeah, we should definitely can do it that way with that version, even in WCC. I don't know if what you're using the JSON LD or the shawty, there are many options inside the WCC. Yeah, so shawty for sure we are doing that. So it's really easy to make those credentials. So we can define a like the type and then work on that and see if you can issue a credential to the root one something like that. Yeah. Excellent. So, so I'll do the presentation. And then we, we see, you know what we can do and maybe we can have a little workshop together or something. Right. Yeah, for sure. Right. Yeah, I mean. And if I didn't realize you were that far long. So that that's something that we could display at IW as like, maybe an introductory scenario that we could try to get more participants to join in. Yeah. So that we can just show, you know, a wider variety ecosystem. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I just this will be ready for what is the thing in mid April and April. Yes, April 18, I think is the start date and it's three days. Well, I'm in no rush. Right. So I need to, I need to, you know, tie a few loose ends and bring it all together but but this this will certainly, I think I can get this done in March. Right. Yeah. Depending on how it goes on. As I say, you know, I'm in no rush. But if you think it's useful for a demo and then we can, you know, make an effort to make it happen. Yeah. Let's see. Let's see how far we get. You know, even if I if I can't go, it's not a problem. Right. Yeah. And at the very least we also want to, we had the idea of a video for, especially for those who can't attend, but at least we, you know, would have a recording of, you know, interactions and and could talk about Nessus and our integration, you know, that way and. Yeah, I mean, honestly, anything, you know, last time we demoed just did comfy to between two roots wallets that had the same, essentially, agent, you know, architecture, this, this month, or this time we want to show multiple agents so same same as we run in, but multiple agents behind it but then obviously we want to interact with as many other agents as possible and, you know, start talking about scenarios that we could build towards so. I think, you know, the top on the top of my priority list would be the idea of the TCK, you know, I would like to push that really urgently, probably with diff, right. Who owns, who owns the TCK, right. And then this is probably not roots and probably certainly not Nessus, right. So, but there needs to be some some home for for the TCK and then as many agents as possible to sort of flog around it and and try stuff. In the scope of, of a given TCK version, right, really, right. So that would be ideal, you know, for to push adoption to define a set of functionality that everyone must comply with to to get that checkbox if you know what I mean, right, level ABC or whatever they are called right so so that would be ideal and and I found, I found. Can you tell me TCK. Yeah, technology compatibility kids. Ah, yes, right so similar to like the AIP concept. Yeah, yeah, and Rodolfo, you didn't hear that last time was like offline conversation so in the Java world, there's this notion of TCK right technology compatibility kid and formally it was owned by son and then Oracle acquired son of course and if you, if you want to provide a compliant Java application server, j2e, j2e server, then you need to license the TCK and that that is big business, right, licensing, licensing the TCK costs a lot of money, and then you have like thousands of tests and and you you pass those tests. And only then you can say you have a, you have a Java application server, right, you're not allowed to use the brand Java, you know, unless you've passed the TCK, right, so in did come in did come it could be similar. So, so you, there could be a brand established around what it means to to be ready for interoperability, you give it a name, right, and and maybe it has levels or maybe it has sections or whatever, right. And, but there, there must be somebody who owns that TCK and, and it must be must be somebody who is not, who is not at the same time an agent, right, and Java in Java, it is the case that there is the TCK, and there is also the reference implementation. Right. So there is the reference implementation is always right. You know, unless proven wrong. But, but, and that worked really well, at least from from, you know, what I have seen in those many years in Java. When you say reference implementation in the did come context, are we talking like what Sikpa is providing. Well, it would be an agent that passes the TCK. Right and it would by, it will probably be the first agent who passes the TCK. Right. And, yeah. I'm sorry I need to drop or maybe some minutes until I borrow the play. Okay, yeah, no worries. Okay, bye. Okay, thank you. Bye bye. Yeah, thank you for jogging my memory on that. Okay, so that is, I mean, all of that sounds great. Obviously, the community is small. So I'm with you that essentially we have to make it happen, right, as a community that's the whole point that's why we started this meeting. And, yeah, they're really, I don't know how to stir these kinds of things up, you know, within like an IBM or, or things like that, like how other than essentially all of us setting up services showing integration demonstrating it, you know, creating hypothetical scenarios that are hopefully attractive. So, looking up buzzword things like chat GPT, you know, to a did come in point like all these kinds of things like beyond, you know, building software, I don't know how to cause adoption or cause investment into these things. I personally think that that the diff should own it. Right. And then there should be, there should be an initiative within the diff that provides the TCK, right, because they have, they have digital identity in their name, right. So, so they should be very much interested in interoperability because, because, you know, self sovereign identity is nothing without interoperability. Right. So this is the whole point. Yeah, so you need, you need to have these back end wallets, seamlessly to communicate with each other, and, and a little later, you want to see a front end wallets. You know, communicating with each other and communicating with these back ends and for that to happen. You need a very strong body of standards of specifications. And as you know, you know, with every specification there is always some or a lot of room of interpretation. Right. And these gaps, they need to be filled by the TCK, right. So they need to disambiguate. What's the world disambiguate. Yeah, disambiguate. Yeah, you disambiguate, you know, they need to disambiguate these specs so that everybody knows what they need to do. Right. And yeah, so, and I think the diff would be the right home for it. I think. Yeah. And, and there, there's a lot of posting recently in the did com user group by Fabio Pinheiro who we work with him. Because he's an IOG guy, I'm just looking, but he was basically saying yeah where is this did come V2 test harness like this needs to be something hosted that everyone can can hit. Exactly. Exactly. That's that's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah, to Fabio. I'm just going to put his name because I don't think he's on is asking for and did come. Okay, so maybe I'm always trying to figure out, you know, okay, we're whipping up this this interopathon, you know, for IW but, you know, what should we come out of that with maybe that's what we need to bind together for is basically what you're saying a reference implementation on test harness that we collectively make sure this is the shining star right to that that it's the north star that everyone is is, you know, coding towards. He was complaining, for instance, one of the CICPA libraries, I can't remember which one he was using it was probably the Java one, but yeah, essentially he he was getting some TYP field that he wasn't expecting, and it was embedded in a way that he wasn't expecting so on the on the Diff did come user group. There was a whole discussion going back and forth about, you know, why is this returning something wrong and I believe they've submitted a PR for it. Oh no it was in the CICPA Python library. So yeah, I mean we're going to keep finding these things but yeah there needs to be kind of yeah that test harness that we can all just say I am what percentage you know on the test harness. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And, and there's this business angle to it as well. Right, so right, if you if we could. So, you know, for me it's funny to say these things because I'm not even a member of the diff, right. Okay, and it's not it's it seems to be kind of difficult to become a member, because I have these 10,000 employees at the back they all want to become members right and there's this price tag associated. Yeah. So, this is a bit awkward at the moment. But, but yes, I think, I think there needs to be a project on GitHub that has does all the tech right so the, the architecture of the TCK itself needs to be defined yeah how this should work. And encryption comes into the game and what should it see and what is the contract with with the TCK and how can it verify that stuff is actually working right. And, and then there is the business angle to it. Right, so what does it is it can, is there a license associated with it is there a brand associated with it right. So, can anyone claim that he is compatible without proving what is the process of proving that that you've actually that you've actually are compliant right so. So all these questions need to be answered I think in Java. It was self certification yeah it was not some police turning up in your shop and then looking over your shoulder that you actually pass it was self certified So, and I think, if I remember correctly that this was the way it worked, but it does not necessarily have to be the way it works with diff right so, but it needs to be defined so that people know what it means right and to how to become compliant. What it means, you know, is is this available in various levels or is this just one shot. Right, does it cost anything right so so that you in your product in your little, you know, in your roots wallet is there a logo that you know that proves that you are TCK that you are compliant with that name. Roots wallet is did come compliant. Right. And there's a little logo to it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And this is another chicken and the egg rent where no one's going to care about that logo unless a bunch of us start integrating with each other and doing things so. But adoption is hard if we don't all have a reference implementation and test harness to work with so. Okay. Well, I'm, it seems that there's a movement for this. And so let's try to make that one of the results of the IW interopathon. Yeah, this is a joint effort to make a test harness that exists. Yeah, I think that's good, and somehow start providing a score. I mean, we can definitely use the Aries agent test harness as a as an example for that. Yeah, good. Interesting. Okay. You haven't done anything with OIDC. Correct. No. Okay. I came across it because it's, it's heavily used in, in vault. Yeah. Okay. And, and vault uses it before EPC uses it a lot. Yeah. It wants to position itself well within the European community effort. Yeah. And for that they have, they have this OpenID communications thing. Okay. It's on my list, you know, I know very little about it. I only watched a few YouTube videos about it. But I can't say that I really know what it is and it's not integrated in Nessus yet, but it will be. Yeah, sure. Yeah, the reason that that was mentioned last time is there had been a session at IW where they were talking about, you know, people talk OIDC versus did come. But the truth is they have overlap, but they're not. They don't completely overlap, right? And so they were talking about ways that you could be issued a credential over OIDC for VC, but then, you know, did use that credential, you know, in a variety of did come V2 protocols, but, you know, obviously as a present proof. So this is obviously much more advanced topic than the work that we're doing for did come but yeah, it would be nice to. If there's agents that we're integrating that already have OIDC for VC support, then why not leverage that support and show a workflow that includes it. So that may be something we don't do in the spring here. Basically, if there's two agents that can do it and we have time to, you know, practice a demo, then we would do it. But something to consider as well. Okay. And I wanted to. I can probably come. I can probably make the fall meeting because I expressed my dismay loud enough at, you know, various. I think I, you know, we should be able to go to these things and meet with people in person and actually, you know, get inspired by others and show our own work and it should be possible to do this at least once a year. Yeah. I'm just looking really quickly at the open wallet foundation. As they announced their sponsors, I was just going to check really quickly. I don't know if you knew if IBM's already on that. Okay, so diff is on there hyper ledgers on there. Just over IPs on there. Okay, but there's no, no IBM. Accenture and visa and okay. So we had listed the agents that we were hoping might participate. At IW. We haven't heard. So Ariel's going to be there animal is actually going to be there as well. But we don't know if AFJ will actually have that did come be to support necessary. Bjorn's going to be there from block trust Brian said he's in. It looks like in DCO is interested. Bruce is also interested obviously roots ideas. So they have a lot of prism. They, it sounds like Tony's going to come from IOG Tony Rose. So, at the very least, we'll have a recording of, of our, our interop with them over did come be to but they might actually be in attendance. So they have an example chat app that we did a quick, you know, did come be to messaging with. As well. So, do you want me to just call it Nessus here. And yeah, my, my be a recording. Okay. How do these things work when you, when you do these interop sessions, do people actually sit in the same room and try stuff out. So that at IW. Yes, they tried to do that last in the fall. So we had done, there's a demo hour, but then you can have a session on anything at any time at IW. And so we had done our demonstration in the demo hour for roots wallet with two roots wallets doing, you know, chat, messaging over did come be to and then that kind of spurred others other agents who support did come be to to say, well, let's try to get together and do an interopathon right in, you know, in a session. And so Alex was in that session he they tried with Varamo with Nick and them, but because, and also I think Brian might have been in there as well. But at that time. I don't think any of the agents other than ours had been settled on the Sikpa library, like I'm pretty sure Brian had implemented his own crypto. And I'm not sure what Varamo had at that point. I think I think the problem with Varamos was their implementation had been prior to the. They had done their implementation before did come V2 had been accepted by the diff so it had changed enough. And so essentially interrupt. It didn't happen. Nothing was able to interrupt but I think people have solidified much more on the Sikpa libraries, which helps a lot to avoid some of the issues, including, you know, a teleprism definitely. If they're not using the libraries they essentially are making sure they're compliant with the Sikpa library so. Yeah, we would get in get together in a room but what I'm hoping is that if we get the word out now that we've essentially practiced. It means that when we're together, we're mostly having success, we know where we fail and we can essentially, you know, talk more about like, well a test harness, you know, let's how we implement that so that everyone can. Yeah, can start to use it so that's my hope is instead of it being, you know, a last minute type maneuver that we're prepared. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, we had just talked about obviously basic message, trust ping. Well, I guess basic message routing. Discover features would be nice. But yeah, I mean, obviously this is this is where we'll sit there's there's several did come agents. Well, I guess, at least one that maybe doesn't even care about issue credentials so that's fine. Right. What about very fine. Yeah, certainly. Yeah, would be nice to show the full triangle the trust triangle. Validation is also a topic schema validation. There are various, various formats you could use. Yeah. I would, I think this will be a smaller group of us but yeah, I mean we would certainly be happy to do these things with with you. And then, yeah, as long as we have successful at the very least we record it and show it and talk about it. And there's no way to call in order. No, they, I assume they do that on purpose. Oh, yeah, they, and I think when they release the recordings, they only release it to attendees. I think they're trying to force, you know, people to attend in person, which I used to not like because basically I didn't, you know, I didn't want to spend the money and other things to attend but honestly, when I did attend. There's there is magic that happens by being in person. Yeah. So. Okay, I think that's pretty good. There was a lot of talk in the Aries working group stuff about did peer to support. Apparently several Aries agents have did peer one support in various ways, but they haven't really got a good ride between the agents to make sure that their did peer one support is good and did peer ones complicated so that's why the support is, you know, not well formed even the spec itself, basically is not clear on on several parts so but they are talking about did peer to in terms of they have these things called legacy dids that are essentially not fully qualified did so they don't start with did colon something right, but I think they're often used in the indie or sovereign world. And so they need to upgrade those dids to something. And so it sounds like did peer to is what they're going to use to do a transform. And so we supported. Essentially, we had been talking about Kerry light as a possible solution but there's too much resistance, you know, not people don't know Kerry light they don't trust it necessarily. And that's fine. But I think it was good that it was just mentioned. So Kerry starting to get on on people's radars because of the trust spanning protocol work. Yeah. Why is that such a big issue. You know, I mean, can we not. Can we not. Let's say from, from the perspective of the TCK. Right. Maybe there is this section where you don't need to resolve a did and it could be, you know, in those scenarios did key would work just fine. Right. But in cases, in cases where you need to resolve a did, you know, from from the actual did you are I, you need to go to the document and then you find the whole lot of metadata right this scenario. Is it not possible to define a least common denominator, denominator for for that. So for example, you know, essentially you need to, you need to have some sort of a registry ideally the registry is the centralized, but it doesn't have to be right so so what it in the context of the TCK not be possible to to have a mock, you know, a mock registry, or even use IPFC IPFS. Yeah, for, you know, why not, you know, or, or you even use the, you know, the sovereign blockchain maybe right that's easy enough to set up that we have the Docker containers. It's really, you know, up and running in no time. And you have those four nodes. And you can do all sorts of things but I haven't looked at it closely enough if that only supports dissolve method method. Maybe maybe that's the case. Right. And there's also this universal resolver project. Do you probably know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so, so you know, maybe it's as part of the TCK setup. There's a definition of, you know, we use this or that registry, and it may be IPFS or it may be sovereign and, and there's this common interface to this resolver here. So, so, you know, first stop would be universal resolver with a number of did methods, it supports and, and you know what I mean then then this whole discussion of, of did carry versus did peer v2 and so on and so on. And that would go away. Right. If, if, if the TCK had a way of saying, right, you know, if, if it's, if did key is not working in this scenario we use a B or C. Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think that, well, like, I see Alex just hopped in. So when, when he was doing the JFF challenge agents supported a variety of, of did methods, but a small set of did methods and so you know if you didn't support the same did method as someone else, there was issues. So I think they're just trying to define this simplest set of did methods that, that should be supported. And so did peer to just is I think gaining even more momentum as kind of one of those base implementations because that's the other thing there's there's did peer it's confusing you know for people that, oh I do support did peer well you don't just you don't support did peer to you support maybe zero and one or some, you know, and so I think they're just trying to get some momentum, you know, towards exactly what it will be. But you are right that, yeah, we will, I think the goal from a lot of the agencies to be able to just support whatever the universal resolver will will allow. So, we're almost out of time, Alex, I call, if you can hear me. I Hey, I tagged you on. So, Thomas is gotten pretty far with his W3C credentials for his Nessus agent for the airport use case that he's working on so at some point in the nearest future we would like to try to see if we can, you know, accept the credential and display it in Brutes wallet. You know, essentially showing integration with with his work, you know, in hopes of having a solid integration prior to IW at least recorded. But you know, we might even be able to show some things at IW. So that's that. Is that the issue credential protocol? Have you implemented Thomas? Yeah. Yeah, issue verify schema. Yeah. Yeah, we should be able to get some interrupt there. Good. Great. Okay, that's our time. It's good to see everybody. Roto was here. And so, yeah, Alex, you missed him because he's flying out, but he was here for a bit. So that was great. Good meeting. Good to see you all. And yeah, we'll stay in touch on the on the roots ID. Yeah, okay. Yeah, channel. Yeah. Yeah.