 Welcome to the original gangsters podcast. Another zoom edition. I'm Scott Bernstein, your host along with a very, very special guest. One of the one of the OG's all time favorite content producers and a true rising star and in the in the mob, a history space who's already a certified superstar in the gambling space but is really been making his bones in the last year and a half in this space is diverse and versatile and we love them. Jeff Nadu from Barstool. Thanks for thanks for coming back on the OG. Always good to speak to you, Scott. You're one of my favorite people. Then I appreciate the kind words. You're you're the true OG though and I've learned a lot from you and I always enjoy our talks. Thank you for having me. Yeah, so Jeff, you know, he's he was at Barstool. Then he was on his own. Now he's back at Barstool and his podcast, the sit down is, you know, it's he is the resident mobologist at one of the biggest really one of the biggest media brands in the world Barstool and I think I was excited for him when Portnoy and Company decided, you know, in addition to bringing him back for his expertise on sports gambling but allowing him to stretch his wings and get in, you know, really roll up his sleeves and get into this world with that type of backing. It's just it's good for everybody when that kind of content can be spread. And Jeff's been a great ambassador so just excited to it's been about a year probably since we, at least for the OG we've done some stuff on with him but in terms of the OG it's been about a year so thanks a lot. I remember, Scott, you you came on the second episode I ever did of the sit down. It was nice garfo right. Yeah, yeah that was, I believe it was April of 2021, and then you did another episode we did, which it's funny because that current state of the mafia shy did I was one of my most watched shows. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's been a fun ride and you know people like you are really the kind of the originators of all this and it's all kind of levels because it's funny I spoke to like Scott Dietrich recently, and I kind of listed a great episode Yeah, thanks. We did the purple gang one and I kind of talk with him about that how you know for a while it was so and rab and capiche and john Davis and then it was you and Scott beach. And you know now it's like you have a couple new folks popping up on YouTube like myself and, and other people and yeah it's, you know there needs to be people here went when the older guys move on or do something else and yeah you're kind of the ambassador yourself so we're just going to do a kind of around the horn talk and touch on, you know, current gangland news from around the country. We're going to just like Jeff and I we pride ourselves in our versatility. We're not going to stay kind of in one organized crime lane we're going to try to spread it out we're going to hit the Italians we're going to hit some Irish we're going to hit some African American we hit some cartel stuff. So, let's just kind of open it up while we were talking about, you know, Jeff's from the Philadelphia area and the first episode that I did on the sit down was about Nikki Scarfo. So let's just start off with it we're not going to this won't take too much time. Just a little bit of news coming out of the Philadelphia LCN Bruno Scarfo crime family. It's sad to report that you know one of the true we talked about up and comers and fast risers, one of the true rising stars in the in the criminal defense world, Johnny Marangolo suddenly passed away a couple weeks ago. And Johnny Marangolo is the son of the legendary Philadelphia criminal defense attorney Joey Joe Marangolo who represented mobsters in the Philadelphia area, as well as other organized crime figures for decades and, and Johnny was representing the alleged or convicted and then a number of other crime figures, Stevie Mazzone, Mazzone's on the verge of getting sentence for his role in a 2020 racketeering case, and they were supposed to show up for sensing and Johnny Marangolo. Like before, or within 40 hours of that sense in hearing. So now that sensing hearings going to be in a couple weeks from now I think it's December 15 or 16. And it looks like Stevie's going to be sentenced to six years. You know, throw it over to Jeff. Obviously, it's, it's tragic when England dies he was, Johnny Marangolo was only 48 years old. And there was clearly trust there with that family. For someone like Mazzone, who was older than Johnny Marangolo, Steve Mazzone is 60 I think close to 60 you trust a younger guy that to be his defense attorney and you know it's sad when you're saying goodbye to a guy like that 48 years old. We've seen a lot of these guys, being from this area, you know, whether it's New York or Philly, they've all kind of bounced around right Marangolo, Eddie Jacobs, Brian McMonagle, all these different guys I remember years ago. Fortunato Perry, he was a big lawyer around here he would do the. Yeah, he was beanie seagulls. He was actually in I believe one of Beanie's music videos. I do remember that. But yeah, Marangolo that's a sad story man only as you said 48 years old very young. You know I remember him. I believe he represented poor keys and hockey at one point. Yeah. So he tried to argue that the NYPD arrested him because he was Italian. And that was kind of an ethnic thing. I think he also represented junior god. So he's basically not even though his father was based out of Philadelphia, John was based out of New York City, but I believe had either dual bar admittance, or had. I don't they call it where your your bar license in New York is recognized in Jersey or Pennsylvania, because of the proximity, but he was, he was based out of New York City. He wasn't just representing guys like my zone he was representing a lot of big time New York. Yeah, yeah it's a super sad story man a great attorney obviously a guy that represented all sorts of different clients and I read when he died he represented an NY, you know, a fire department in New York firefighter who died in one of the Deutsche Bank of fire so he was kind of a well versed attorney was in the federal system the state system. And, you know, as we know I mean junior faced what five trials I think merengue was on his third or fourth but just a very sad story. I was pretty surprised and hearing that I believe he, you know, I think I don't know if you mentioned up but I think he represented Joey as well at one point. So, well I know that Joe, he very well might have john might have but we all know Joe merengue. I presented Merlino in some things in the late 90s early 2000s. You know what we'll move on in a second just the last thing I'll say is you know, Miss own 60 years old. He's been a federal prison before there's no, I don't think there's any worry about him flipping I mean he's as solid as they come. Incredibly popular and well liked. You know, beloved all due respect to Joey, I would say that Stevie is probably more universally beloved joey's polarizing you either love Joey or you can't stand Joey I've never heard anyone, at least in terms of guys on the streets I'm never heard anyone saying anything negative about about Stevie, he's got to do about six years. He'll be out when he's about 66 could be worse, but at the same time, I'm sure, after losing 10 years, you know, lost I think 40 to 50, or close to around that, you know, in terms of your, your middle ages. And now he's, you know he's 60 years old I'm sure you don't want to do to do six years but you figure I mean, you figure in his last 30 years he's going to do 16 years. 16 years in jail and that's over half the time. People have to realize I mean these people do have families at the end of the day and they don't ask for any of this stuff they're not in this life. You know he has two daughters, you know they're they're both, you know, in their own lives and they want their father around. It's a shame, you know I think, I think the common thought in Philadelphia and a lot of these other areas is, you know, you see people like my zone who look, I don't think we're not your sugar good anything he's a gangster he's a convict of felon but you deserve six years in federal prison while, you know, other areas of the city are being completely pillaged by the drug trade and it's like well. What are we still doing here, you know, yeah and it's, you know we'll get more into this, the more subjects we hit on because I think this will be a common theme but it's like you know the government sometimes can. There's a lot of things black and white there's a lot of gray, and I think with Stevie, you have, and the same can be said I think with Joey and some other people in that inner circle. The government wants to punish them and jam them up for things they're not being convicted of now. Yeah, but for things that in their mind, they should have been either convicted of in the past, or should be convicted of in the future. So it looks got it at like the current state of let's just say gambling right I mean five years ago gambling was not legal in Pennsylvania and you know I don't think the state or federal government was going to come down as hard on people but if you have book making in your case, they may make more an example because now you're stealing now from the state or from the federal level, and I liken it to you mentioned cartels we're going to talk about cartels at some point. There are there are certain cartels in Mexico that commit field theft a lot of people don't know what field theft is they're basically stealing fuel from the government right. That's one of the ways the cartels make money they're stealing gallons and gallons of fuel, and people like in the Mexican government as to why they go after them so hard for that but they can move tons and tons of drugs in and out of Mexico and that's nobody cares about that once you fuck with the government's money. You know they're they're going to take more of a foothold on it, as opposed to drugs nobody cares about drugs because the government really doesn't affect them. And the last thing I'll say with Stevie. There wasn't a ton of evidence right physical evidence to actually convict him on this what they had was was a tape, or several tapes and tapes don't lie, and he's saying some incriminating things on the tape, but he's he's speaking as talking about immigration it's not illegal to be a part of people maybe not understand my might not understand this. It's not illegal to be a part of the mafia. No. It's illegal to do things in furtherance of that membership. So they have you know they have Stevie on a tape at an induction ceremony, talking to just recently inducted soldiers and kind of giving them a pep talk if you will. But yes he's talking about being a gangster but they don't have any evidence of him taking tribute they have people three four people removed from him claiming that he saw tribute. So, I think he just, I think there was a possibility. My point is like he took this plea didn't go to trial with this it wasn't like his racketeering case in 2000, where he went to trial and there was a whole four month trial and he was convicted of it. In this situation he just kind of threw up his hands and said you know I'll fall in the sword and do six years. I mean but without violent crime and with with major drug trafficking charges I mean six years is that's a steep beef. And they're jamming him for things they think they should have jammed in for 20 years. Yeah, I mean I think it's no secret I mean and we saw with with guys like John Gotti I mean the feds have an issue with certain people they can't pen them on anything else and you know they're going to hit them hard with with some of this nonsense that no one really cares about in the end. I mean it's, it's just how it goes, you know, you got to move on. The last thing I'll say about Stevie is it going back to the tape. I think it offends the prosecutors and the FBI agents when they hear the tape where Stevie if people don't know about the tape where he's like Jeff said five minutes ago. He he's unabashed and he said I'm a gangster he says it on the tape we're gangsters. This is what we do. We're not going to let any suckers take take away from us because we've earned it. And whether or not I mean that's for a federal prosecutor or for an FBI agent that to them is like a is like a middle finger. I think the problem is Stevie as well is that you know you look at someone for instance like Philip Narducci right. He has made inroads in creating a business for himself, going out and working every day. You have some of the guys that do that. You know, as far as I know I don't know of any legitimate employment that Stevie claims on his on his tax return that he's a trainer at a gym, you spend some time there I mean he's very, you said about like on this on that it's yeah you know some are making the effort I think maybe they look at him and saying he obviously doesn't care and he's just that's just who he thinks he is so. So, and then we'll talk about one more death in your neck of the woods lesser known gangster but has some interesting ties guys guys name was Sam Siligato they called him a gator. Out of the Hammond Hamilton, New Jersey, blueberry capital of the world. I'm going to throw it over to Jeff in a second to kind of maybe give us a insider's view. I've heard a lot of people say that you know there's Philadelphia there's New Jersey and then there's Hamilton that it's kind of its own little world in itself. A lot of immigrants migrants that work the blueberry fields Siligato was the right hand man to the reputed godfather of Hamilton throughout the 60s and 70s and early 80s a guy named Vincent Jimmy the brute the Natali, who happens to have a grandfather that is very prominent in the political sphere in the last five years she's a Kelly and Conway she powerhouse Republican political strategist she ran the Trump campaign in 2016. And this was her, her grandfather she was only 16 years old, when Jimmy the brute passed away, natural causes in 1983. And Jimmy the brute by the way, even though you talk to anybody. They'll tell you this guy was a stone cold gangster didn't actually have much of a criminal record. And Sam Siligato was his his his right hand man is driver. And he just recently passed away he was 70 some years old I think, and did it didn't really get reported. I've talked to some people and they basically decided I didn't get reported because he wasn't a big enough deal to have it reported. And I probably wouldn't even be mentioned in it if there wasn't a connection to Jimmy the brute and then via Trump or from from Jimmy the brute can get Trump. So, you know, last thing I'll say to it I'll say to it before I just throw it to you for some comments. You know Siligato might have been quote unquote minor league, compared to some of these other guys we talked about and we will talk about today. But, you know the FBI ties him to at least three murders. And they, and they, they, they got a search warrant in the 80s at some point, after Dina tally died, and they searched his house and another restaurant that he owned, they dug the they dug those places up looking for bodies. So, you know, he wasn't, he was more of a serious individual, I think, according to the FBI, then maybe some people give him credit for as just maybe a lackey. I think all these people though that we call associates these guys that have Italian last names or maybe don't their associates their business owners. They all are spokes in the wheel that turns that's the mafia right so you look into someone like Sam Siligato I mean he once was an alibi witness I believe for Nikki Scarfo. You mentioned Dina tally, he, I think looked at the Natale kind of like a father figure kind of a mentor. And you know all these guys I do also believe that at one point I read that Siligato was was a big time bookmaker for like migrant workers in that area. And I think in the 80s, someone wrote about that in the paper and they actually looked into several properties that he had where they believe bodies were buried. You know, he's just one of those kind of like old tail like legend type of people that, you know, I kind of liken it I did a piece recently on tough Tony Federici, right. Now, you know, this high level stuff. But if you actually look into Tony Federici, there's very little actual proof that he was ever in the mafia. He was never really arrested for anything mafia related. Did he maybe occasionally hang out with people yeah, but I think sometimes we use Italian individuals that are older that look a certain way. And we think oh they're mob associate now this guy. I think probably made a lot of money for the mob we just don't really hear about him much because you know he was just kind of a little bit more enclosed nobody really knew much about him but if you know him, you know that he had a lot of businesses and I'm sure a lot of it was cutting up and he was involved with gambling prostitution. I'm sure he, you know, dad some bodies. That's just that's the one of the bodies that they they connect to him the fed the federal government they never charged him with it, but some informants told their handlers in the FBI that there was a prostitution ring being run out of the this cavern called the silly Gator in, which was where Jimmy the brute would headquarter out of and spent most of his days and nights, and was Siligato his girlfriend, and this Hispanic prostitute that was doubling as a side piece for Siligato got pregnant. This is according to the informant told Siligato and Siligato and Jimmy the brute killed her to end the pregnancy and end her and buried her underneath the the bar. They never found her never got charged. But both I think all three of the murders that they tie Siligato to, they tied to the Natali to as well. Yeah, I know that was a pretty was a pretty big deal even though, you know, in the Philadelphia mob lore, he might get lost a little bit but you look you talk to FBI agents you look at their, you know surveillance laws and their records. He was taken audience with Phil Testa, Angelo Bruno, Nikki Scarfo. You know he was he was a major player that just I kind of, I kind of like it haven't been to like Chester, in a way, Chester Pennsylvania Chester had a very big and large mafia faction right in the 70s the 80s. All these little towns and we know Hamilton well from the Ron Previty era where right, you know, and I remember when I looked at Iran, you know, Hamilton is a huge Sicilian population you mentioned it's the blueberry capital but they're all from the same area in Sicily and Yeah, this guy I'm Jimmy the view if you ever look or you look at him. I mean he's central casting mob guy, you know, Scarfo had some personal I mean I should know this I wrote the autobiography of his, of his nephew so I shouldn't be asking this, you know, Scarfo spent some time working in those blueberry fields as a young as a young man. He'll move on but I just one thing I learned about what I did a little research on him and talk to some people and read what had been written when I found out that he had passed. One of the things I find most interesting about from a business perspective him, Siligato and Jimmy the brute. According to some, some people I don't think there's any official record of this, but they were the first people in the state of New Jersey to have a video game arcade. In the 70s before video games are everywhere or even available to in the 80s. I mean I have a recollection more than Jeff I mean I can remember as a young kid. There were places that you went and you just played video games I mean it was before everybody had home consoles. And even before that I mean this was before anybody really knew about video games. I was told by people that Siligato and Dina tally had some in somewhere and they it was the state of the art location for kids that were just blown away by the ability to play you know space invaders or whatever I remember I mean when I was a kid I mean you go down to the shore you know the boardwalk I mean there were those arcade kind of places everywhere. You're talking about you know even 20 years like the big video arcade games. Yeah, the computerized stuff that in the 60s did not exist and in the 70s were just starting to come into existence. Those things fell off trucks and then right. So let's let's move on and let's talk about some I was always fascinated by Kelly and Conway and her not ever wanted to talk about her father and it's like. And then Nancy probably talking about you know political yeah she's another one Nancy Pelosi had a father that and a grandfather that were allegedly tied into the Baltimore mafia which was a sub faction of the Gambino crime family. So, you know about Trump's connections to certain right. That's that's no secret and Trump admits it, in terms of, hey, I was working construction in the 1980s. And if you're working in New York and construction in 1980s you were inevitably. It's funny he never talks about how when he fleeced Salvi test for that piece of property on Pacific Avenue I think it was. Let's move into some cartel stuff. There's been news that's been breaking over the last couple days just been on top of it. While Barbie for people that might not know an American born Mexican cartel boss and Forcer that really ran rough shot through certain certain spaces within the big big big time international global narcotic. It was a Texas football star in high school ends up marrying the daughter of a cartel boss learns to speak fluent Spanish has some Spanish heritage knows how to speak the language and rises really fast, and eventually gets arrested in 2010. He's disappeared from from from the federal prison system, which people are take your people are interpreting that as that he is now in the witness protection front. I mean, there there's no other there's no other reason. I mean you don't just they don't just decide how you're doing 49 years for you selling little tons of cocaine and all sorts of things. After we fought to get you extradited here. We don't just release you after what four years. He's cooperated surely, and I think a lot of people look the truth of the matter is La Barbie is a fascinating person he is a guy that is the only known American that I'm aware of that literally left a and people have to understand. This is not some kid who grew up in projects and had nothing his family were well off they his sister is a prosecutor for the federal government they were a good people. They were a big family. He played football as you said, he literally Scott went toe to toe with Los Etas. He literally was the armed wing of the Beltran Leyva cartel and went toe to toe. I mean you and I talked. This is a guy that's probably responsible for killing hundreds of individuals he is not yeah it's not more and you know when you reach the level of violence at the cartel. At that level that that it's it dwarfs anything that the mafia or African American drug lords have even have even thought of doing when you're talking you're talking about where where life is so worthless and cheap. And if you're a boss, you could be responsible for, I mean 1000 1000s I mean El Chapo is responsible for thousands of murders. It's interesting to Scott, because the individual we're talking about he actually went toe to toe with arguably the most dangerous person in the history of this world in Miguel Trevino Morales who you know anything about the Los Etas he was incredibly enslaved I mean a guy that probably killed 5000 people I don't think that's that's that's probably conservative. But he also the Barbie he was famous for creating the execution video that we know that's very normal. Yeah, Jeff and I were talking off air about how he was rolling these videos out in the late mid to late 2000s 2000 Yeah, he's trying to be a social media gangster before people really even understood what social media was and now it's that it's common place right you know every cartel uses that and now it's usually every other day there's a there's a beheading video on on somewhere but yeah he made that famous and yeah now he's just disappeared and I think it's clear you know the DA I'll tell you that he's been collaborating for it for years. I think from what I understand he's likely probably going to cooperate against political figures, you know corrupt people in the Mexican government and Mexico. It's funny because it's a big story in Mexico nobody knows where he is they're blown away they don't, they don't understand this and it's like yeah he's cooperating. He has and he has direct links to El Chapo. Oh yeah, he acted as a, I think a driver and a bodyguard for El Chapo. He was Scott. He was, La Barbeuse with Beltran Leyva which at one point were aligned. If you know anything about Chapo, Chapo grew up around the Beltran Leyva brothers they were once very close and then Chapo believed or they believe Chapo cooperated on one of their brothers and then the war started so yeah they he this guy had a ton of power and the reason he had a trouble is down the road he tried to take over the Beltran Leyva organization and then the cops centered in on him and that was that but yeah he is a very plugged in person. I know you mentioned I'm blown away we haven't seen a film about this person yet and I'm sure this isn't the last one. I haven't even heard, I haven't even heard, I mean there's a lot of stories that have never made it to the big screen but you hear about projects being in development and they get derailed for one reason or the other. And I keep track of it, you know, because I have a part of my career in that entertainment world. There's nothing. I mean not to say that that's not to say that it doesn't exist, but there's not. There's, there's not been any reporting in the Hollywood press that there's anybody trying to develop a story. From what I heard, and I don't know if you've heard this but from what I understand army hammer bought the rights to the story. I don't know if I stand correct it. Yeah, I don't know if I don't know if it ever, you know, army hammers his own problems, his own issues right now. It's a good documentary check it out if you like true crime docs House of Hammer and I watched it it's it's good if you love you love crime docs and you love history, because his family want to talk about touching a million different global powerful figures. You know his his grandfather was a was just a moguls mogul I mean just this huge. And I always thought that grass for a second, I always thought that are the army hammer family were the arm and hammer baking soda people but they weren't there they were oil people. Yeah, I mean that's I never thought about that. I kind of make sense. But he's complex dude. And I, I believe he has this story but you know how that kind of move. I don't think army hammers getting anything made any. No, no, the last thing I'll say about La Barbie. And I don't have any question in my mind that he's in, he's in protective custody. He's in the government and some type of witness protection that he was told for what you did for us and what you will do for us. You know you're not going to have to really serve anywhere near the sense. Don't you think it, don't you think it's amazing when you think about it I wrote a blog about this today about how the government is just kind of willing and saying hey, we hate you, that we hate someone way more than you. So we're willing to forgive the fact that you did all this stuff you probably have killed hundreds of people. And we're now going to say you know we're good with it just cooperate and we're going to throw you in Lincoln Nebraska and give you a nice house and a dog and a car. And you imagine walking out of your house and you meet this guy and this is sure. I mean, think if you're me and this guy moves next door to me. And I noticed that La Barbie that I mean the guy literally killed hundreds of people. Yeah, we're just going to forgive it. You know that they're okay. You know, federal government at the end of the day is okay, making a deal with the devil. If in their mind that deal with the devil gets them a bigger more dangerous devil. Right. John Gleason told me that I said how did you justify Sammy Gravano's deal. And he said well you know we put it all together and realize that the cooperation he gave us would have put a lot more people that were worse than him together in jail. And Sammy physically killed a lot more people than John got it. Yeah, yeah, I guess essentially it's it's it's fascinating though really. So we know that La Barbie so we know there are federal documents that show. And if you believe those federal documents that back in the late 2000s before he was taken into custody that he had provided information to FBI DEA and ATF. And in relation to where his mentor. Arturo Beltran leave us leave I was in hiding and then subsequently, there was a shootout and four people ended up dead including Arturo in 1993 was bodyguards and there's some documentation and court files that send the or that he would have been out, it's been out sooner if Belgium doesn't die. He probably goes and testifies against him and that's that the problem that this he's cooperated. Okay, they don't make clerical errors. And if he died, it would say deceased. He didn't die. He is a rat and he is somewhere in protective custody now and you know he'll be living in America somewhere in the next year. So let's keep it on the international tip. The biggest drug kingpin of modern era from from the Dominican Republic sees are the abuser Peralta, the man that allegedly tried to kill major league baseball Hall of Famer David poppy Ortiz. Recently was convicted in a major drug trafficking case out of Puerto Rico in Miami and will be doing at least 10 years in federal prison in America. And I again I wouldn't even be bringing this up if there wasn't a tie to big poppy who's one of the most beloved even though he's from the Dominican Republic and he's got to be one of the most beloved athletes and American sports in Boston I think it's like big poppy Tom Brady, Larry Bird and Ted Williams I mean that he's he's a guy he's a god like figure in Boston and at first it was dismissed. I think the Boston press didn't really want to admit some there were some other media outlets that didn't want to go as far as claiming that that when when David Ortiz was shot. So in a bar in the Dominican Republic that it was a case of mistaken identity or, and then it eventually comes out that no that was a hit it was a murder contract that Peralta put on his head over a love triangle of some sort, a woman that Peralta felt like belong to him and big poppy was romancing buying her jaguars and pink coats and taking her on trips around the world and Peralta try to kill him. Peralta had been on the run for a while they finally they got him in. I think I made it they might have arrested him Columbia and now they extradited him back in the United States and he's going to be doing 10 years in federal prison. You know I'm always, I was always fascinated by this, this case with big poppy because, you know it was obviously, you know, women are always seemingly at the center of some of this evil stuff that happens, but I was always blown away that the god did it himself. Like that's, especially with how big of a drug trafficker he is, you can't get like a, you know, an underling to do I think you know I think one of the underlings actually shot. I think he was like, there. It's like, what are you doing. Yeah, yeah. Well, big poppy. I happen to have a pretty good in with with the Boston media via some family connections that are very close to to big poppy Ben you can hit the siren. I from what I understand big poppy and sees our Peralta and big poppy were friends. They were, they socialized together. They were in some ways kind of an equals standing in the DR. What was this like Al Capone, John Gotti like figure that people feared but also coveted his presence at bars and clubs and restaurants and had a lot of ownership in those bars and clubs and restaurants and big poppy was the guy could run for president at the DR and win. They were kind of in this similar orbit of celebrity in the DR and they, they socialized together and I, from what I've heard, they lived, or for at least part of their years. They both had penthouse apartments in the same luxury condo in Santo Domingo so they, they were familiar with each other. You see a very powerful woman in the center of that to do all that to someone that, I mean, I, it was funny I was in an Uber a couple weeks ago, the guys from the Dominican and we were talking about, he was telling me that as you said like David Ortiz is like a king there. Yeah, he is the, you know, Michael Jordan, you know he's he's the dead set guy and yeah it's it's you always wonder, I have to see this woman she must be something. You hear about, you never know I mean, if we've learned anything over the last 1015 years you never you don't know your heroes. I mean, there's so much that we don't know, but from, you know, from from just from a face value perspective, David Ortiz seems like one of the good guys. Yeah, he had the kind of the steroid thing hanging over his head for, but but for the most part, he had a pretty blemish free career was was a guy that was a leader in the clubhouse as clutches as any baseball player that I've watched in person. And was everybody but the media loved him the fans loved him his teammates loved him wasn't one of these superstars that you know has a reputation as a prick. Yeah, very likable I was like David Ortiz. I mean, I'm not the biggest Boston guy either but yeah it's, you know, it goes back to with with the case as far as the drug case I mean to the guy does 10 years, he gets out. You know, he just stopped the flow of drugs coming in and out of the Dominican Republic for any second. So, yeah, what are we really doing here but yeah, wild story always always found to be a wild story. When I was reading some of the court documents, you know, the DA is alleging that this Peralta, his, his reach in the drug world goes well beyond DR that in that whole region of the world that Caribbean region that you know he is a, he is a drug Titan. You should see what happens. What's kind of that meeting point you have Asia and you always had Columbia you have kind of the DR right in there and then it's the trampoline to Mexico and then it's the United States so. Let's talk about a couple guys that could be seen freedom soon after quite a while behind bars let's start with. We'll start with the will go African American drug world. Washington DC, you know probably the most legendary drug world figure in the history of DC, rifle admin appears to be close to seeing the light of day. It looked like he was going to be serving multiple life sentences, but he he cooperated back in the 1990s. And because of that was able to get a future out date or the potential of a future out date now it appears that that will be coming up in the next couple years the federal government can let him out. And with that discretion I think the federal judge said, he has to serve at least three more years but could be let out at any time at the prosecutor. This decides that they would like to let him out after a year you come out could come out could come out after a year but the very latest would be like 2025 and admin. It was short rain, but it was the legacy is quite long lasting and a lot of bodies. He was a lot of cross sections with with with with sports, maybe not professional sports but with college athletes at that time, Georgetown men's basketball was was one of the top programs in the country was perennial top five team. He was spending a lot of time with with the Georgetown Hoyas, particularly Alonzo morning would go on to be a NBA All Star. And there was a famous meeting with with John Thompson, but the legendary basketball coach from Georgetown called him into a meeting and this they sat for about an hour. Yeah, and admin almost awarded as a as a badge of honor, because he loved the Hoyas so much. I don't believe he ever went to another game after that. I think he was respected Thompson just stayed away. Yeah, so what I find interesting and I want to get your take on this. Sometimes you can be such a folk hero on the street that cooperating doesn't really affect the way you're looked at to some to some degree, not it not 100% right. But I think with the old school street guys. That's not going to change for them that you're not to them. But yeah, nowadays, I mean, I mean, I think it's pretty clear nobody cares anymore. The same ethics I don't think are out there. And I've I've heard about Ray Fledman, I know Frank Fyrdolino told me Frank Fyrdolino Jed with him at one point. And he said he was just a very nice guy. I think you know Ray Fledman, whether he's a rat or not I think he's kind of one of those real old school black drug dealers that still he he respects someone like John Thompson, these new age guys, they would probably try to kill him. Yeah, they would Ray Fledman was just like you know what, I respect you, I'm gonna stay away you're right I shouldn't be around young kids like that, because I'm going one way and they're going another. Well you know what he was doing. If people and this is the reference point that I have and maybe I'm dating myself but you remember the movie above the rim with Tupac, right. You know the way that they kind of explain or show this summer basketball world in certain big cities where drug dealers will field teams and there'll be a lot of money on the line. These games that happen in, you know, open air parks and and whether it be the rocker in New York City or other places like that. And admin was a huge basketball fan, and in the years that he was this huge drug lord. He made sure that the best players in Washington in the Washington DC, Baltimore area Virginia area that that they play for him in the summer. And a lot of those Hoyas, including morning including another future NBA player named John Turner were players on those teams and like Jeff said, once Thompson and then there wasn't much of a run left for rifle admin at that point, but it is not worthy to say that he respected where were Thompson was coming from. And I think, I don't know if he didn't realize, or didn't care until Thompson brought it up that like, this is more than just you man, you're bringing heat on me on my program on these kids. And I think there was a, there was like this come to Jesus moment. I think it was back when the drug trade had ethics. Yeah, you know I always liken it to the wire. Marlo Stanford had something that Avon Barstow never had he had that depraved, you know, evil being where he didn't care about anything it was about what he wanted that people like rifle admin didn't think that way they, you know, if there was a killer on the street they were going to get rid of them so it didn't fuck with their business you know, I don't want them around kids like that. You know and it's funny because I think rifle admin at one point, one of the reasons he cooperated was because he caught cases in jail where he was still conducting business in jail and Eric Holder I believe at one point, kind of bemoan the BOP for allowing it to happen. Yes, and that's the fact of why we see places like the supermax now where you can't do shit like that. Because if you remember, like with rifle, Kebani Savage did all of his dirt in the federal prison system, the order of that firebombing in the prison system, that was a bad thing for the feds a lot that happened. So, and, you know, having the final word on this I'll just say that all these guys, whatever their past glories were or they all have to watch their back for the rest of their life. I mean, just look no further than Alpo Martinez. Yeah. Someone just like rifle had that legendary street status and in Harlem and there was a movie made about him and got out cooperated got out finally got out from a life sentence and you know was out for five years, six years and got killed in Harlem last you know in 2020, either 20 rifle, he's smart enough to kind of stay away. I would love this, you know, I'm sure we'll see it I would love to see an interview with him at some point. Yes, you know, he is, you know, I think he's like late fifties probably at this point. Yeah, very interesting. Um, veto guzzo, Colombo crime family soldier is kind of on the verge of seeing freedom or possibly on the verge of seeing free. Trying to get a compassionate release. You know, he's significant for the fact that he was one of the shooters on one of the frontline soldiers in that Colombo of the last Colombo war of the 1990s, where junior Perseco had to hold off a lot of insurgents from his acting boss little vicarina, who's also been desperately trying to finagle his way out of a life sentence. The reason I find it interesting is in this, you know, there's a through line here. There are guys that were involved in that war that killed quite a few people that are better out and free and, you know, living, living their lives. And maybe those were, you know, what's, I guess, well, you know, what, who judges who's responsible for what in regards to when an order gets sent down and why are why does the federal government want to hold certain people more accountable than others? It's an easy answer for, you know, in some in some regards it goes back to what you said what Gleason told you is if you can give them someone they want, then I think the problem that Vito Guzzo has is he didn't he was killing people for his own one. Okay. And you look at, for instance, he killed an individual that he believed killed his father. He shot in a moving car with three made men in it and one died. He also killed two drug dealers and let their bodies on fire. He's a depraved human being. He admitted to five murders at 38 years. The problem that he's going to have in his, you know, he's saying that he's just a regular guy. He's moved on from his life. How does that explain as to why you got made in prison. You also committed a prison riot in Danbury several years ago, and he's also not really denounced anything. He hasn't denounced that he's not in the mafia anymore. He's not part of that life anymore. I think he didn't necessarily I think a lot of his murders take, you know, take an order. He just did it. You know, he was just he's a lunatic. He was shot twice survived. He's definitely developed a reputation. A lot of people called him the next John Gotti at one point due to the fact that he was from Queens and he, you know, just seemed to be kind of immortal, if you will, he kept people kept trying to kill him and he survived. He was part of the genie need crew, which, you know, Frank was a part of and Paul regus and all those guys. Vito was a, he's a dangerous dude, man, probably one of the more dangerous people that is coming up from the younger kind of group of gang mobsters. I'm not, I'm not by no means am I saying that he's for sure going to get a get a get out of jail. There's at least I agree with you. It's not going to happen. Okay, but no way. The bigger, I think the bigger overall arc that I want to touch on though, from that is since 2020 and the onset of the COVID pandemic. And we might have talked about we might have talked talked about this in past and some of our past, you know, content that we've made together. It's turned into a giant get out of jail free card for a lot of organized crime figures that would have never even been able to think about getting out. But because of overcrowding because of age because of medical conditions and whatnot a lot of these guys are are getting a second chance at freedom. I agree. Unless it's probably a bad example of someone that could use it to his benefit. I think it depends. Look, if your last name's Gotti, you're not getting out. If your name is Tommy shots, you look at what some of the things he was involved with a cop died on his watch. Yeah, probably not going to get out. You know, Peter Gotti talk about him. Gus so again, this is a guy that killed five people he admitted to it. Okay, he should have got life. The government said you know what, we won't go to trial we'll just give you 40 years. I don't see it. We've seen sentence reductions, maybe, but he's not going to get sprung or anything. What I would immediately go to in my mind and some of this might be apples and oranges but in other ways it's not because it's it's the we're talking about the first step act and which is really, you know, for my dollar, I can't really say much positive many positive things about Donald Trump. But, you know, one thing that I think he did that was very important that in my opinion is probably the only lasting positive legacy that this man might have is that he championed the first step act which needed to be done. You know, a drug dealer to serve in life sentences for, you know, essentially nonviolent crimes, you know, should not be clogging up the prison system, the way that they are. And he's given a lot of people an opportunity and combine that with the pandemic. The one thing I'll say though about guys that I would have never expected to be able to get out that have gotten out. And that was the kind of apples and oranges thing was there's been a lot of gangster apples. An African American game based out of Chicago that has spread, you know, all over the East Coast and Midwest and down south. Larry Hoover, you know, the one of the most infamous African American crime lords of all time. In super max and it's crazy to think that the government thinks that he's calling shots from super max seems almost impossible. Hoover's not going to get out on it and he's tried. He ain't going to get on first step. But there was two or three of Hoover's top lieutenants guys that were serving life sentences that you would have never thought had a chance to get out that were that were able to find their way out. It shouldn't be like what I'm about to say but it is it's truly a case case basis if they like you. Maybe you'll get out. You look at like Bobby Manna, Frankie LaCasio. Yeah, shouldn't have died in prison. But you know you look at Frankie look who is he associated with John Gotti. You look at Bobby Manna. The feds believed he attempted to have Mary and Barry killed. That's just the truth pride and happen but they thought it happened. They're just people that I think developer reputation that they don't like. And then there are people that they are like going to like I just think what goes though he's again he didn't get made allegedly until he went to jail. Now whether the mob approves of that as far as do they recognize it we don't know but you know he hasn't exactly been a choir boy either behind the wall either so yeah I think he's probably going to do is every minute and he'll get out in 2030 or whenever it is and we'll see how it goes but he's he's a lot of bodies on him so I don't think it'll be easy. Only want to touch on one more thing we'll wrap up. This has been a lot of fun. Talk a little whitey bulger little maybe a slice of that whitey bulger story that people didn't know and I've learned more about as I've reported on it. So whitey bulger got killed in 2018 a crazy powerful insane. Demented. Just a hellion I mean one of the worst individuals that has ever walked this earth James whitey bulger Irish crime lord out of Boston was also working with the federal government. For 25 years finally caught a decade ago roughly after 15 years on the run convicted of eight 14 murders I think 13 or 14 murders and is in a protective custody wing in Florida gets transferred. No one really knows why into a general population wing in West Virginia and within hours is beaten to death by allegedly by Massachusetts organized crime. The ringleader of this hit team allegedly was a guy named Freddie Jesus, who was a guy that very tough, a guy that made his bones in Springfield Massachusetts guy that if he had been Italian would be a made guy, you know possibly more, but he was Greek so he couldn't be made but he was very close to the Genovese crime family leaders in Massachusetts. When he was in state prison in the 1990s before he went away in 2010 on a murder case where he's going to be serving life. He was mentored in prison by a guy named Freddie Weichel. Freddie Weichel was a low level member of whitey bulgers winter hill gang and Freddie Weichel was framed by whitey bulger it's been adjudicated and a civil court jury recently came back with a $33 million verdict that Freddie Weichel deserved or based on a wrongful based on the corruption that whitey bulger was involved in and they framed him for this 1980 murder. He did 35 years I believe in prison. Got out a couple years ago just got this verdict in the last month or two, but it's interesting to tie that into the motive for if you believe certain theories and narratives. The motive for Freddie Jesus, being the one to kill whitey bulger was exacting vengeance for what bulger had done for someone that he felt very close to and Freddie Weichel. It's a very interesting connection isn't it. And I will say man, the money they've had to pay out due to the bulger. And really just a corrupt FBI in Boston, whether it was John Connolly or you look at even like Peter Limone. Yeah, the money did what 30 years in prison for it and how much they patent that was a hundred million dollars. I mean just, you know, the damage that people, several agents did up there is crazy but yeah that's an interesting connection. I kind of thought about that myself and, you know, I think it was several things. And Gius did it, which we don't know if he did. I will say I think that is still one of the more corrupt things the BOP has ever done. It very much likens to the Jeffrey Epstein stuff but again think of it like this. You and I both know this and we talked about it during the LaBarbie stuff. They don't make clerical errors. Okay, they don't put an 88 year old male who, look, you know this better than me, Scott. Any 80 plus year old individual in the feds goes to Danbury, Butler or Springfield or Rochester. That's a federal medical center. You in no way would ever ship a man in a fucking wheelchair to the one of the worst federal prison. I think the target on his back to a federal prison that's known as the worst federal prison outside of Florence, Supermax, who happens to have a reputation in a population that is made up of all Massachusetts. And you put him near a guy. And you put him near a guy who, remember, let's say Gius gets off Balger. He still serves life. Okay, Gius' life is either going to be in GP or it's going to be in Ad Max. Or it's going to be. That's the difference here. This is a guy who hated informants, hated women abusers, and you put the guy in general population with him and other lunatics. What do you think is going to happen? Just listen, how Balger's family didn't win anything? I don't know. They should. It is a suitable case. But yeah, very interesting connection between Whitechill and him. I don't think it was the sole reason that if he killed him, he did it. It probably added something to it. I'm going to get some vengeance from my friend and now he'll get a double vengeance because now he's getting paid as well. And if you do a deep dive into the Whitechill case, I mean, again, it turns your stomach at how some of these police officers, FBI agents, prosecutors, and how you can sleep at night knowing that you're, I don't care what, I don't care that argument about I'm making a deal with the devil to get a worse devil. That's one thing, but framing people for murders and locking people up for things they had nothing to do with. Real quick, I remember, and this kind of is connected in a way, I remember when I did, I did some deep dives into that guy Wayne Jenkins and Baltimore, the gun trace task force, the guy that was like, I remember watching some of the interactions he would have with people in the street and it's it's sickening really to think about it's like you can see a guy that's just solely doing stuff to jam people up to make more money. You know, it's, it's really sickening whether it's the FBI or the police. In this case also shows, not that we needed to have any more indication that Wadey Balder was a depraved, warped evil, I mean pure evil individual. He writes a letter to the Whitechill's mother saying your son didn't do this. I, I know it because I framed him. But just so you know, I ain't going to do anything to help you. I just want you to know I'm not going to refuse to go tell anyone this but I just think you should know that you're just an evil guy who, you know, likes to see people just in their worst states. Yeah, listen, I also have said I think his murder is probably one of the most violent I've ever seen. His eyes were gouged out of his head. But I also will say, I know Howie Carr allegedly sent Gia's money for doing what he did. I think Balder was trying to kill Howie Carr. People that might not know Howie Carr, one of the big media personalities in the Boston area, great reporter, but one, unfortunately, you know, had a, had a murder contract put on his head, wasn't carried out. But Balder was trying to kill Howie Carr. I think we should, you know, I think a lot of people say we should throw a parade for Fred Gia's. I mean, yeah, I think Whitey Balder probably wouldn't matter. Yeah, I said that. Probably Balder deserves, you know, he's probably the one person on earth that deserves the power saw to the back of the head, you know that. In the movie, I don't know. People, unfortunately, and I'm guilty of this too, you know, we get our history from pop culture and from films and a lot of stuff that we see in a movie kind of becomes the gospel whether or not it's true or not. You know, Black Mass was not a movie that was that well received. I thought it was underrated. I thought Johnny Depp was real. I thought I liked it. I thought Johnny Depp was really good as Bolger. But the movie in a lot of ways sanitizes Bolger. And if you're consuming that, you're just thinking of Bolger as a hardcore gangster, which he was. But they didn't go into the fact that, wait, Whitey Balder was a pervert and was someone that like little boys and little girls and wrecked havoc in South Boston in more ways than just racketeering and murder. I think when it comes to like strictly organized crime figures, Irish Italian, I don't think there was a more maybe Anthony Casso was very horrible. Yeah, I think he was Whitey Balder was surely the worst, probably. I don't think it's even comparable. I think Casso was bad. He was a depraved guy, but yeah, he deserved the ending he got, a lock and a sock to the head and his eyes gouged out. They kind of touched on it in The Departed. You got to have to pay attention to it. There's a scene early in the movie where he's talking to a young girl, clearly he was a teenager, and he's giving her money and asking if she's getting her period. It was implying that he was sleeping with her. And I think they obviously did that intentionally, even though the character was fictional, but it was loosely based. But I didn't love how they left that part out of the black mass narrative. You didn't need to address it. You didn't need to spend 20 minutes addressing it, but you could have given us a couple minutes. They definitely addressed that he choked the one woman to death. They didn't do much. They made him asexual in that movie. He didn't really have a sex drive. Right, right, right. I remember watching, I think it was 60 Minutes where they found two people that were victims of his extortion and stuff. He would do stuff like a lottery, a person would win the lottery. He'd extort people that won lottery tickets. He would go to them and say, give me a lottery ticket or I'm going to kill you. You won a million dollar lottery ticket, I'm going to buy it for $20,000. Yeah, or if you don't agree, I'm going to kill you. It was a psycho. But Freddie Weichel, I mean, tip of the cap to him. I think he's in his early 70s, probably he's got maybe a good 10, 15, 20 years left. Enjoy the money. Yeah, he's got some money coming to him. Hey, Scott, let me ask you two questions about Weichel. First of all, does Freddie Geass ever have to put money in his commissary again? And B, do you think he did kill Whitey? And do you feel, why do you, do you think that when Weichel was the reason or do you think it was? I don't think, I agree with you. I mean, I think if, if, if what he bolder gets transferred into that wing and Freddie Geass had no connection to Freddie Weichel, you probably have the same exact result because that's who Freddie Geass was. I believe, yes, Freddie Geass did it. And I believe if we had Freddie Geass here and there was just us, you know, talking and it wasn't going to come back to possibly bite him and court, he'd tell you that himself. But I, you know, I think that it was motivation, I think that from what, and this is just based on people that I've talked to that were very close to Freddie Geass, that say that Freddie Geass considered Freddie Weichel a father figure, and that the whole Whitey Bolger situation from before Freddie Geass was in prison, before Whitey Bolger was ever caught, that it was something that Freddie Geass would talk to people about and lament and say one of these days, you know, what he's going to get what's coming to him. So I think you can, it can both situate both scenarios could be true, whether or not Weichel was a factor or not, if Freddie Geass had a chance to kill Bolger, he was going to kill him. But I think that it was, he was smacking his lips when he heard that that Bolger was being transferred. And look at this, it would be virtual hell to live in Hazelton for the rest of my life. But if there's a federal prisoner that probably lives pretty well inside it would be him. I'm going to get real conspiratorial and say that you could convince me and it wouldn't take a lot of convincing that the someone from the prison system or from the from the federal government knew that Geass was there knew that those and tipped him off and said hey, we're sending we're sending this your way. Well, how else would he have known, like you just happen to go there and that unit, you know, we know we know from one of the co defendants from a phone call he made to his mother that they that the unit knew that Balger was coming in at least, you know, 1012 hours before he got there now how long. We're not sure but you say they don't make mistakes like that. Balger had a lot of information on a lot of powerful people stuff that I think he was informing on that had still not seen the light of day. I mean Scott at Scott at the time he was arrested he was literally the number one fugitive on the planet. It was been a lot and him and we've been loud and got killed in in May of, I think it was 11. I remember turning to someone and being like, why do you ballers days are numbered because they've spent 10 years ignoring him Scott think of it like this this would be like that feds taken El Chapo right and putting him in a wing with a bunch of laws that does and just saying, there you go. What is it? What is it shows you that they weren't looking for Bolger between 2001 and 2011, they weren't looking for Bolger, the second they decided to look for them they found it, which also makes you kind of wonder like, maybe they knew the whole time where he was right. Yeah. Well this was awesome Jeff thanks so much, my man. Please everybody go check out if you don't know you probably know already but if you don't go check out Jeff Nadu the sit down podcast. It's it's it's for history buffs everywhere. He deep dives mob history like no one else, you know, in this space. He's got great support and backing out from the bar still people had did a great interview with with Sammy the bull Gravano a couple weeks ago. It's just it's great content and we love here for OG, you know, combining and joining forces with Jeff hopefully there'll be a lot more of that as we go forward. This was this you know we love going around the horn man you know there's always I remember at some point, maybe 10 years ago, someone kind of questioning whether there was enough content to fill the tank of the mob tubes and the mob reporting and I'm like, I was like, I don't think you're looking close enough or or far enough I'm like it there's always news. Well I think I'll take just like in sports. If you know where to look there's always going to be news talk. And I think if you're willing to meld other things as well in you know doing you know the cartel stuff. Yeah, you know I've done stuff on you know arms dealers I've done shows on you know all you know stuff that's that's relevant in the world you know so yeah I appreciate talking to you you're always great always enjoyed talking to you and I know we have to do a Jimmy Hoffa show or some sort of Frank Sharon shows soon because I'm getting a lot of people saying you really don't believe Frank Sharon. You know I know you don't so yeah we can we can definitely do a we'll have to do that at some point. Update episode and I can I can come on we can talk about this this it's it's so evergreen man it's the story that will never die Hoffa's been dead for almost 50 years. The story will never die we're going to be talking about a 50 years from now. And if we if I come on we do a show, I'll I'll let your I'll let your listenership or your viewership know where the where the investigations headed right now I'll tease it a little bit. From what I've heard the next place they're looking at right now is Canada. And that sounds insane. And I still I still question it that they could have got a body across the border because Detroit borders, Windsor, Ontario, but this this theory is that a dirty Detroit police officer was a part of the hit team and that put him in the trunk of his police car drove him to the border they buried him somewhere, you know, in Windsor, Ontario, which is like a suburb of Detroit. And there's a there's a very prominent documentarian and researcher that has no real background in this space is his expertise is like DB Cooper. I know that the FBI is taking this seriously. And that that's probably where it's headed and when we do some content we can deep dive that I'll tell you this and I'll tell you again I think he's on somebody's mental somewhere in some sort of earn and people laugh and ever they hear the the story of where Jimmy's buried and someone laughs as he's right there. It's, it's like it's the gift that keeps on giving. I'm almost tired of, I shouldn't say all I am tired of doing Jimmy Hoffa interviews, but hey if that's my test across have to bear for my life as a crime reporter and I got to do Jimmy Hoffa interviews to the day I die I guess it'll be all right. No I hate it. Thanks Jeff, everyone go check out Jeff need to sit down sit down podcast big man on campus for his for sports gambling, you know, I'm not the first one to say this, you know, if you're if you're into college basketball, there's no there's no better handicapper in the world. Then Jeff need you. He breaks it down and analyzes it like very few can or well listen Scott, I don't know if I'm the best gambler in the world but I am the best breakdown of games guy in the world. I mean it really is. I remember growing up around my grandpa and his best friend Leslie I. What do you do Leslie I'm a gambler what do you mean you're a gamble you put that on your, you put that on your texture yeah. And then I go I remember going over his house. And this is before the internet, and just his just filled with research. We just books and magazines and newspapers. He showed me that there's a science to it it's not just, you know your gut, or, or I saw these guys play last week. You do you do you do a week's worth of research to figure out who you're betting on funding or say no there's more than it's more than just, you know hey. North Carolina is playing Indiana tonight no there's more than that you got to look into all that stuff and yeah I enjoy it my passion so awesome thanks Ben. Jeff, great. We will be back next week with some fresh content for Ben Augusta behind the glass on the ones and twos he's these really are. He's our MVP I always say it but Ben is pushing the needle for us. We love Ben. Jeff, thank you Jimmy Bucciolato who couldn't join us today. He says hello he'll be back next week and we will see you again on the OG podcast I'm Scott Bernstein out.