 playing the show Tom hi everybody hi doctor Nick you might know me from such Google hangouts as all right we ready to go wait we're gonna what should we talk about today we should have decided that is there anything that's interesting in the tech news this week if only there were things happening if only there was one dominating ideological divide and how she's breaking the internet with her butt he's breaking the internet I can't can we please talk about that cuz God not talking about that I want to talk about yeah I think that's a good idea I'm with you there all right you ready yes the Daily Tech News show with Tom Merritt is brought to you by wonderful awesome patrons like you if that's not you join this party now go to the pain dot com slash ace detect and give a little cuz it helps a lot that's patreon.com slash a c e d t e c t hit the button Tom this is the Daily Tech News for Friday November 14th 2014 I'm Tom Merritt joining me today Ms. Molly Wood personal technology columnist for the New York Times and my friend and work from home lay about and work from home lay about woman of pleasure I wish hey we're gonna talk about net neutrality are you ready I'm so excited are you so excited everyone I I think they might be at least a couple of them Len Peralta is also here he is an artist of the highest order give respect he is do respect me yes are you ready to illustrate net neutrality I think I am ready all of the strokes of your pen must be treated equally don't privilege one over the other I've been working on a little image here that I think will be a lot of fun and we'll see how I go all right cool I can't wait to see what you come up with I think reasonable actually to say that Len's art is that essential it is as essential as the internet it is a utility it is yeah I think you should be a good I quote you on that thank you so much I work as essential as the internet gigo gigo passes along Microsoft announcing a beta rollout of Skype in the browser using a plug-in for IE Firefox Chrome and Safari didn't see any opera in there Microsoft intends to move the system to web RTC soon the rollout of this plug-in version though will begin at Skype comm in the coming weeks according to Microsoft had a really respect your commitment to opera Tom the next web reports that Amazon announced a Kindle update with the new family library feature that lets that users access their spouse or partners accounts as well as manage up to four children's accounts Amazon didn't say how they plan to confirm who is a spouse partner or child wink wink or what happens in the families that have five children who may be of Kindle using age what happens is that sharing actual physical books is still easier also new word wise a feature which adds simple definitions above words on your Kindle you can wait for it to show up on that Kindle or download the update today at Amazon comm Len what are you going to do for the Kindle sharing I am going to you have more than five kids yeah I'm going to have to break myself in half and start another Amazon.com account I pretty much by the way could not be more excited about the direction in which today's illustration you know thank you the mask threat spelled with a Q as I must remind you that's the one that can affect iOS by picking backing on OS 10 apps continues to make headlines the San Jose Mercury news reports Apple commented on the matter saying quote we're not aware of any customers that have actually been affected by this attack and Apple continues to encourage its users to only download software from trusted sources like the app store but I thought it was good that they didn't say only the app store so you know that's true like the app store although let's be honest how many people actually download Apple apps iOS apps in particular from any place other than the app store yeah they're talking about OS 10 in particular here you choose your right oh right the OS 10 very few people well if you don't have a jailbroken iOS device you're not going to download from elsewhere right and even then I feel like OS 10 well anyway moving on giga home reports on IBM's plan to build two new supercomputers for the US Department of Energy called Summit and Sierra I think those kids go to my school that would roll out in 2017 both computers will be based on IBM's power servers with NVIDIA GPU accelerators and melanox networking tech they should deliver more than 100 peak petaflops boom beating China's Tianhe Tu's current top mark of 55 peak petaflops so suck it China summit will live at Oak Ridge National Laboratory I gotta sex it up somehow summit will live at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Sierra we'll go to the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory which is close to my house they'll work on things like climate change problems predicting natural disasters overthrowing their human masters without detection you know like little things oh a little summit and Sierra you were so innocent once so precocious Europe's telecom package including net neutrality rules and the elimination of roaming fees is being considered for approval right now by member states it was approved by the European Parliament but giga home reports it may be called back for revision before it can be approved thus starting a net neutrality fight in Europe again the rules have a tight definition right now they allow specialized services and things like sponsored data but otherwise most all packets must be treated equally Wall Street Journal saw a working document indicating a revamp of not yet finalized laws was being asked for by European Commission chief Jean-Claude Junker and he recommends a digital single market package which sounds like a replacement for the telecom package and also really interesting the replacement for digital agenda chief Neely Crease is now vice president for the digital single market Andrew Sandsen and I love it when a plan comes together the economic times of India reports that German software company SAP has agreed to pay Oracle more than 359 million dollars to settle a long-standing copyright battle I can assume that all of that 350 million nine million dollars will be spent putting on sweet concerts in downtown San Francisco after they close off all the streets for Oracle world back in 2007 an SAP subsidiary called tomorrow now offered software support to Oracle customers at a lower price than Oracle itself so Oracle then accused SAP of stealing software in order to offer those services a previous US jury had ruled that SAP owned owed Oracle 1.3 billion dollars but a judge ordered that reduced and then Oracle got mad and now here we are in 2014 and tomorrow now has been closed down since 2008 Larry Ellison has an island and a bunch of lawyers just ordered the really good wine oh good I'm glad this finally got resolved writers reports the FCC has requested AT&T provide specifics regarding their plans to delay fiber development in 100 cities the FCC is reviewing AT&T's proposed 48.5 billion dollar bid to buy satellite operator direct TV as part of the merger proposal AT&T had agreed to provide high-speed fiber internet to 2 million homes if the deal is approved so the FCC saying wait a minute if it's going to be too expensive for you to roll out fiber that might impact your direct TV deal just saying and time now for some news from you these are among the many things some of which you've already heard that are submitted at our subreddit daily tech news show reddit.com always like to highlight a few of those things but I appreciate every single person who submit stuff there it's always good stuff and it's always fun to read through star fury Zeta found out in his ours Technica post he was reading that the Wall Street Journal says the US Marshall service has been using small fixed wing Cessnas with digital receiver technology from Boeing DRT they call them dirt boxes because of the DRT that mimic cell towers to gather data from phones on the ground the intent is to spy on fugitives Marshall service and criminals phones but the boxes don't discriminate between fugitives criminals and other people the devices are used only after a court order is issued however but they can collect registration info texts photos they can jam signals they can interrupt calls in large numbers yeah this is a pretty big deal of story actually because of the scooping up of lots of data yeah in fact all of you go ahead oh I just got to say it's the definition of is it overbroad yeah I mean it's a flat-out dragnet in fact Christopher Sugoi and from the ACLU said it was inexcusable and that it was likely to the extent the judges are authorizing it with those warrants that they have no idea the scale of the surveillance happening there gaol kick sent us a slave like gold I'm sorry I'm embarrassing I hope I'm right I think gal sounds really cool sure does the gold kicks that does a slate article about a German cloud infrastructure company called cloud and heat that distributes its servers to people who are willing to store them in exchange for the free heat that they admit how smart is that emit customers pay to have a cloud and heat fireproof cabinet installed which is a good idea the cost is comparable to installing a standard heating system then cloud and heat page for the electricity and the internet service that it needs and the owner gets free heat not water excess heat is stored in the in what in water in a buffering tank and then vented outside during the spring in the summer so they're not just like cooking all the time that's genius love it genius Len needs that right now he does ursaf passes along the New York Times report that the prestigious am touring award often called the Nobel Prize of computer science by some people will now present a one million dollar award to the winner thanks to Google the touring award had carried prize money of two hundred fifty thousand dollars which was jointly underwritten by Google and Intel all the way back to 2007 but Intel stepped away as a funder so Google stepped in not only matched what Intel had been given but up to the award to match the prize amount that Nobel winners get love it that's pretty nifty as well they should Google okay so the news on the net neutrality front today you heard some of it obviously in the headlines but also Comcast CEO Brian Roberts while trying to unveil some features that make Xfinity TV service a little more like Internet TV obviously realized that everybody wanted to hear his opinion on net neutrality so he met it ahead on among the things he said was we've had 20 years of a set of rules that have built I think this wonderful world that we all enjoy I mean that happiness through it's true well yeah here's here's the thing and Robert's actually trying to be positive he's saying I agree with all of the principles that President Obama set out I don't think you want to do it with title to and that's what all of these guys are saying is you don't want to think we don't want to do it with title to problem with all of this debate is that we're debating entirely the wrong things but Molly I'm gonna let you go first yeah how are you feeling about the way this debate is going I mean I you know I think it's funny because it is easy in some ways to say look this is exactly the same debate that it's been for the 10 years that we've been talking about it which is can you really trust the companies with that stand to make all of the money and that stand that have arguably monopolies in some areas of this country and that have not always been good actors when it comes to their stewardship of this increasingly invaluable resource that being the internet so I think from that perspective the argument really hasn't changed that much but now it's become much more complicated because the conversation is so much about access to over-the-top video to TV right to Netflix to CBS services to streaming video to Hulu and then it's been further confused by all these conversations about interchanges and you know peering connections and Netflix paying Comcasts for guaranteed service so it's gotten more confused and weirdly more political than ever but at the end of the day I think it still comes down to the simple question of having a really good broadband infrastructure and whether we can trust these guys to build it without all of their sort of like commercial desires getting in the way right and I even would say commercial desires are fine in fact commercial desires can can spur innovation that's why we have Netflix it's not because Reed Hastings had some kind of altruistic need to make House of Cards it's because he wanted to make a company that would make money right and there's no reason that ISP shouldn't be able to make money I think that's one of the things that that ends up being a problem on these these sorts of debates is that you you tend to want to break it down as for the people for the business right and then it doesn't need to be broken down that way in fact that's not the way it works best on the internet the way that from my understanding transit providers and backbone providers have worked is providing business motivation to interconnection and I think where it has really broken down and I've said this a million times is that the ISPs have gotten too much leverage the the bigger ISPs is you know the Comcast the Time Warner's of the world have gotten too much leverage now what do you think of that I mean if we were to say like let's break up the ISPs I think that'd be going too far but how do you fix that yeah I mean the only way that you're ever going to fix that is through competition and I think we've seen over and over that we do not have a sufficiently competitive landscape you didn't really even see these guys starting to invest seriously in their networks until pretty recently when they started to realize that they were having significant competition pressures from wireless you know from high-speed wireless and that they couldn't deliver Netflix I mean crazily enough that the push to upgrade their infrastructure came from companies like Netflix and from them streaming long form video content which they apparently just didn't see coming but until then they were busy sort of like creating fiefdoms I mean Comcast controls a huge part of the market and is trying to buy Time Warner like you just don't have enough legitimate choice in this country and enough legitimate competition and I actually don't think that wireless is true competition to wired broadband at this point so they haven't had the right incentive to build out their broadband networks if they do if the free market actually worked and they had plenty of competition then I think we would have broadband networks we'd all be pretty happy with right we had lots of competition in the dial-up era and in the dial-up era everybody could use the phone system because it was a common carrier to run their ISP then DSL came along and the DSL networks were under common carrier under title to forced to unbundle and open up their networks to competitors what happened was they delayed that that is when the push for classification of ISPs as information services came and they without using regulation essentially put in really difficult ways of putting in DSL I remember trying to get DSL installed in 2000 in San Francisco was a nightmare because they said well if you're using you can't use that kind of box you can only use this kind of box and they put in incredible amounts of roadblocks to prevent competition and since the regulatory agencies were swinging away from common carrier anyway they didn't bother to follow up and try to change the situation so now you have a situation where the ISPs were entrenched monopolies in their beginnings right all of these local telcos were monopolies at one time all of the cable companies for the most part were given monopoly franchises at one time and they have benefited from that they also benefit from local regulations a great article on wired where it talks about how difficult it is for any income anyone to come in again the incumbent if you try to actually roll out a new ISP you face tons of bureaucratic nightmare you face all kinds of local fees you face lawsuits from the incumbent who's like well you know you're you're you're trying to use our polls and those polls are owned by us most of these are frivolous and get thrown out of court but they they cost you money of time and money exactly yeah so essentially we don't have enough competition and some people are trying to I've got five providers do you have five providers that provide you 10 megabits per second or more even do you have you know do you definitely don't have five providers that give you gigabit most people feel like they don't have more than two choices and that those two choices are basically not much of a choice yeah in a lot of places it's cable faster internet versus DSL slow internet yeah and that's just not a reasonable option so in my opinion if you if you if you look at that you say okay well what can we do for competition there's two there's two ways it's worked elsewhere in Europe they unbundled the loop they said look you can't own the infrastructure and be the ISP at the same time and that has worked that has worked fairly well that is not the only way to do it though and and when we did the the special the summer we found out that in Korea they just made it easy for people to invest and roll out infrastructure and so they have they had five at one time fiber networks in Seoul Korea because the government actually worked the opposite of the way local governments work here they said yeah we'll make it easy for you to run infrastructure and it's not efficient they all have their own lines and they all have their own boxes but they have competition so what we did was we did the worst of both sides we let a monopoly build up all the infrastructure with a lot of government help sometimes subsidized funds sometimes just easements and then we made it really hard for anyone to come in and compete with them because the cities are broke and they're like well we want our taxes we're not gonna make it easy the incumbent telcos are like that's right don't make it easy for them make it really hard and nobody can break that log jam at the same time any kind of regulatory agency that would come in and suggest unbundling is just gonna get fire bombed at the national level yes they're gonna get creamed and then the results is that we're now having a conversation about reclassifying the internet as a title to utility which is the wrong law to apply these are the these are rules that were as we've talked about not designed for something like the internet they're just not going to be efficient they're not gonna cover the interconnect and peering agreements that are already sort of the subject of so much controversy and it's just not it's the wrong solution and it is an over regulation I mean I think you and I probably agree and have been saying for a decade that the worst thing that could happen was that these guys would behave in such a way and such an untrustworthy way that the government would come in and over-regulate the internet I actually do not think that we need that you know that ideally we would foster enough competition maybe through subsidies or some sort of specific incentive programs that what we would get is faster broadband for all and that we would have you know like a rising tide floats all votes I feel like there's a part of me that could be arguing for some kind of a trickle down thing and that makes me uncomfortable but you know what I mean yeah yeah which is that ultimately we don't need we don't want a bunch of government regulation that will not help the internet it will not I agree unless it is like a new law a new set of rules that are crafted specifically for this very unique entity and that what we really need is just faster broadband because we also don't need fast lanes if we just have faster broadband that doesn't affect traffic shaping like traffic shaping and prioritizing video and prioritizing emergency channels none of that has to be in violation of the spirit of net neutrality it isn't right nothing net neutrality doesn't say that you have to treat every packet equally and that you have to deliver them equally it says that you have to treat all the content equally and not favor one over the other and not charge smaller companies and essentially a tax to get on to the internet and make it prohibitive for them to do so in an unfair way so all we want is faster broadband and then it will work fine for everybody it will now a lot of people say oh yeah Brian Roberts was one of them we've had 20 years of a set of rules that have built a wonderful world thing is it's not a horrible world right and and that that's where the people have started to divide up into camps you're wrong and you're wrong it's a disaster well it's not a disaster so it's easy for the other side to say no it's not a disaster we have you know 50 megabit per second internet available in lots of places but there was the new america survey that came out in june that looked at all of the top 24 cities for broadband some in the u.s. some not and they determined that the United States pretty much pays more for slower internet than the rest of the world highest ranked city was sold with a private isp number two are actually tied for number one Hong Kong with a private isp Tokyo with a private isp you know who else was up there Chattanooga with a municipal isp Kansas City Google fiber Lafayette with a municipal isp then you get Zurich then you get Bristol Virginia with a municipal isp so why is it that the rest of the world these so-called socialist countries are having private isps give them the fastest broadband we're here in the United States where we have open enterprise and we've had 20 years of wonderful rules only the government run stuff is giving you the good broadband at the right price that's not right that's not the way it's supposed to work and then all the isps are going after all the municipal laws saying well we can't actually compete with them so let's just pass laws to make them illegal to make them a little to make municipal broadband illegal exactly I mean it's a it's a just a bizarre situation when you think about it and it is exactly what happens when you don't have competition and so every conversation that this comes down to has to include the competition element like you have to make that a crucial part of the plan because otherwise you will just continue to regulate virtual monopolies and I don't think that we are to the point yet where like I said where wireless can be considered that competition and so that to me that's a straw man like they still charge so much for access that to use a wireless hotspot as your full-time data connection is absurd yeah no and you and I were talking on the phone yesterday and I don't you know I don't want to try to pretend like this is a new idea but we were both saying really the solution is new legislation right title to isn't right because it's meant for phone and you have to forebear the crap out of it to make it even fit title one is also right not right because the internet is more than just an information service and it's that was not meant for the internet either let's let's actually create a title that governs internet and let's do it right that is politically impossible right now unfortunately it is I mean I don't necessarily I have zero faith that such a law could be written in a way that would be palatable to anybody I guess my question is what would that law say I mean what so what are the parts that need to be governed because realistically I can't believe I'm gonna argue this but realistically if we had sufficient competition would there be a need for strong net neutrality regulation because in a scenario where companies and consumers can choose alternatives except then you get like Balkanized internet service where some companies say I'm not gonna be available on Comcast because they want to charge too much for a fast lane prioritization I don't know I mean would it obviate the need for a net neutrality regulation if we didn't have to worry about somebody messing with packet delivery here's where I think the ISPs are making a good argument they keep saying look there haven't been any violations and you can argue there have in a couple of specific cases and certainly a lot most part there haven't been and on the backbone side there haven't been there there there have been like nasty business negotiations recently because the ISPs are getting more leverage than they've ever had before but I would argue that yes if you when we've actually had competition no one was talking about net neutrality as it as anything of interest so how do you get the competition is the thing I've been struggling with and I haven't come up with an answer until today and I'm not saying it's the answer but the first thing that finally I looked at and said wait that could work is take away all of these local rules that make it difficult to roll out you don't even have to use subsidies go if you want openness go open the infrastructure open the municipalities for anyone to be able to roll out the city votes and decides it wants to build its own great let that city do it if a city wants to say you know what we're gonna really lower the the bureaucratic barriers we're gonna lower the fees which is a kind of a subsidy but we're gonna we're gonna lower the fees we're gonna make it simple telcos won't like this because they don't want people to come in and compete but open the access to the ground that is I read over and over today when I was looking through this that is what every person who has tried to build an open free enterprise ISP has run into is permits construction crews restrictions on equipment purchasing capacity from transit providers it's it's expensive but it doesn't all have to be expensive and if you can make it easier say you know we're gonna open our municipality for people Google has done us a favor by showing it can happen because what they did is they said look we're 500 pound gorilla so we're gonna get the municipality to give us a break and they did it in Kansas City and they did it in Austin what happened in Austin when they got the municipality to ease the restrictions all of a sudden AT&T and I think it's century link started rolling out gigabit 5 or 2 right absolutely I mean that makes perfect sense and it reminds me of this great Ted talk I watched that was about on the topic of the city-state right it's like we need to stop talking about solutions at the national or EORs certainly at the but even at the national level and start talking about solution-building at the sort of city-state level like cities mayors are the people who have the power to actually make change that can kind of sweep across and so it makes a lot of sense that if you say at the smaller because what you're talking about is a version of the last mile problem mm-hmm like you can even build a pretty fast wireless network but you still might have a last mile concern and so it makes perfect sense that if you're a innate if you're able to ease the biggest to competition on a city by city basis that you could kind of dig the ground out from under these big telcos yeah literally yeah I like so what do we do here how do we yeah exactly literally how do we like write this up and like make government do that because I'm afraid they're gonna screw it up like I actually now kind of weirdly now I'm worried that they're gonna classify it as a title to and it's gonna be like it's gonna be like a mess well and thing is if they classify this title to it won't be more of a mess than it is now it'll just be a different mess in lots of different ways it's it's not gonna solve the problem at all I don't think it's gonna be a disaster though it's just it's just more muck and I want to get us out of the muck right exactly like so yeah go the right that's the next question that's the perfect next question is how do you open up locality so that more people can build ISPs what what do you do you can you can campaign on your local level and actually have a much better chance of swaying somebody but it's still not guaranteed maybe there's some kind of national legislation that would give incentives to municipalities to open up their their their regulations the beer you know and lower their fees kind of like the way the highway administration works I don't know if that's a good idea maybe it's not that's that's certainly the most expedient right and probably the the most efficient in terms of a large scale because otherwise you'll just have those the entrenched monopolies dig in further in the places where they have all the control yeah because I do think fundamentally the conversation about net neutrality comes down to trying to protect the internet from bad actors and and behaviors that are so financially motivated right like this is what would separate a monopoly from a good business is when the financially motivated behavior start to be anti competitive it's out of proportion yeah out of proportion exactly nobody saying that businesses shouldn't be able to make money what we're saying is that there should be enough of you competing that we start to have that consumer that fundamental consumer level trust that we know you're not going to try to screw us because you can't screw me because I can go to somebody else yeah we do not have that on a broad scale now and that's why we're worried about things like that's why we're worried about bad actors bad behavior about about money grubby basically for lack of an if you have sufficient competition I think you could make an argument that you don't need net neutrality regulation yeah I think you're right I mean I be great I you the only thing that I can think of that's an objection to this is people saying oh but you know this is taking away the natural way business is gone Comcast has has worked hard and invested to get where they are today why take that away from them why have the state take that away from them and as we pay for that the lie is that yeah Comcast AT&T Verizon none of them got where they are today with open competition they all started with government intervention giving them an advantage exactly and even if that were the case companies still become anti competitive monopolies and get in trouble for it when they overreach see Microsoft see the trains that you know the train companies like monopolies can still come into being and that's why we have regulation in the first place and unregulated business completely unregulated business hasn't always produced bad actors yeah like otherwise we wouldn't have business regulation in the first place so I think I think some light net neutrality guidelines are perfectly reasonable I don't think section 706 gives you the right way to do it I don't think title two gives you the right way to do it but even if you can find the right way to do it there it's not going to solve the problem the lie that Netflix and the telcos and the ISPs want you to believe is that the government can fix this what they want is that they continue to allow the status quo to happen so that no one can compete with them because they have they have these natural advantages that are almost unassailable and because and then you make the I mean we need to make the point over and over that the reason they have those advantages is because we helped them pay for that with our money they were they were given that step up that was not yeah and and we've come along we have come a long way in some ways from the 10 year old argument about conflict of interest like we that did not materialize thank goodness that right comcast prioritized its own internet TV services over Netflix and you have people getting into the online video delivery space every day right and they are all counting on this infrastructure to be able to deliver the product that they are investing heavily in so they obviously believe that it's going to be okay on some level or that they're not going to be throttled in unfair way so I think ultimately all it comes down to is infrastructure and competition and let me tell you folks as soon as you start to feel that any of these arguments are against your side you've stopped thinking productively this is not a one side or another issue unless you're a large company trying to protect your your current profit margins this is not a republican issue it's not a democratic issue it is an internet issue it's it's about internet management so try your hardest no matter what side you normally are on not to get caught up in that crap because it's only going to confuse the issue oh you're the best Tom I love that you think that that could happen like people split into right and wrong over for getting teabags dude like we can't we're doing green tea or black tea don't argue with anybody about this on the internet and then maybe you can continue all right let's take a look at the calendar bitcasa unlimited storage plan ends tomorrow November 15th so hurry get your files out and if you missed out on the one phone from one plus they're going to give you another chance to order on Monday November 17th at 11 a.m. Eastern time 8 a.m. Pacific 4 p.m. GMT convert accordingly also Monday Polish American Innovation Week begins with events in Los Angeles and Berkeley along with Palo Alto California very cool our pick of the day comes from Rolando in Paraguay who says you said you're mean my pants pocket he means pocket the app or you save articles to read later he said your pocket is full of articles you wanted to read but never got a chance to go over them it happens but you may want to try the TTS feature of pocket and then you can listen to them whenever you are unable to read good tip I didn't think about that so when I'm done with my audiobooks and my podcast I could do that it won't be the most appealing voice you ever heard now it won't but you know it's better than nothing and these articles are sure most of the podcast I listened to so that's a good good tip thanks Rolando send your picks to feedback at daily tech news show dot com and you can find my picks at daily tech news show dot com slash picks alright we got a few messages I know we're running long you are you cool to stick around for a couple more minutes I think it was worth it for that conversation that was a good talk yeah it was good talk good talk we talked about start TLS being killed by cricket wireless which is owned by AT&T a couple of times now on the show and John had some thoughts on that hey Tom Jenny lemon Molly this is John from Arctic New Hampshire calling in response to yesterday talking about the AT&T script out start TLS and we were talking about how it has either had to be malice or incompetence but not both I actually have a feeling that it could be both but for different responsible parties there's been pictures going on for a couple of years like that actually was an essay of FBI I can recall which one with stacks of fiscal routers and switches and firewall in there you know in their offices supposedly redoing the firmware on them so some of those had gone out to AT&T there's no reason why they were you know maliciously script out start TLS and AT&T wasn't confident enough to catch it anyway that's just my theory thanks guys well that's a good theory John that's an interesting there because Patrick Wolf had pointed out that so he had he'd run into a router at a place he worked where Cisco did an update and the update somehow who was stripping out TLS and they had a reason for he couldn't remember but they didn't notice it at first he was like maybe that's what happened to cricket but maybe it wasn't an accident Steven the OC writes with the suggestion that when an eye report on smart device comments commands which we always have a problem if I want to say the words Google and okay in the reverse order he says Tom if you just learned how to say Syrian French the rest of us will figure it out you won't trigger our devices and that way only one person has to learn French instead of making everybody else learn French since I listened to your show on my nexus five with earbuds you never trigger that's the phrase this is actually become an issue like it is that the voice recognition is just good enough that it happens you know what I like actually I have been using the motor and the Moto X and you can customize the name the wake-up name and I love that because then it's not a generic like it I couldn't get them to confirm this but it sounds like in lollipop that's a possibility I feel like that was true yeah yeah yeah they were kind of like I think that might be possible and I was like why are you being so quiet but anyway I named my Moto X man servant because hilarious like they why it's supposed to be sort of a similar number of syllables so I say okay man servant and then my phone wakes up but then nobody can just be talking about like okay Google you know and mess it up right and you just turned off somebody's phone just now I'm just looking to say oh I'm so sorry I tried to pause I was but you know what somehow the okay man servant thing didn't work on my Moto oh so it doesn't always work Xbox definitely works and you don't even have to do anything you just say the word and it's like we can't avoid we I'm not gonna never say the word Xbox so it's sometimes it's gonna happen I have to say boy Xbox sorry you know what I'm just gonna stay on topic because I know we're already late but it's gotten so cheap now yeah and you know what I think that the firmware updates have really been making the voice activation work I was too lazy the other day I already told the story but I was too lazy to go get the remote and I realized it wasn't on TV and I successfully was able to use my voice to switch it to the TV that's how Microsoft rules like they put out this thing kind of junkie and then the thing about that they do successfully is they correct quickly except for the zoom no I liked it I know it's gorgeous I'm going finally Michael wrote the other day you mentioned you use LibreOffice I've created some tutorials on how to use LibreOffice calc writer draw and base that go into a little more depth than the average LibreOffice tutorials being a LibreOffice user yourself you may be interested in some of the talks covered like how to create an index using LibreOffice writer how to create floor plans with measurements using LibreOffice draw or creating a search form using LibreOffice base these are all explained in my video tutorials and everything is free so take a look if you get a chance youtube.com slash user slash the frugal computer guy tutorial overviews downloads etc that's cool I figured you know what there's probably some people out there who've tried LibreOffice and went I don't know what I don't want to do the learning curve so maybe this will help if people can't afford Microsoft office still you can use LibreOffice also that's so awesome that he did all those two tutorials yeah thanks Michael that's pretty cool and thank you Molly would good Convo oh that was so great yay I know I'm like every time I do this I'm like okay I need to do this more often and also there should be like an hour yeah we're gonna have especially with topics like this right but there is more mollywood out there on the internet twitter.com slash molly would go to nytimes.com slash machine learning is that right that's right nytimes.com slash machine learning and you will find videos there as well excellent so for those of you who constantly tweet me and want to know if I'm doing any video I am actually if you go to YouTube and search mollywood new york times to there's a really nice like it's really easy to watch all the videos cool check it out folks and now we are going to check out what Len Peralta has been working on my favorite part of the show you know net neutrality net neutrality always gives me a headache and I think that the easiest thing to do is that we just did a bandwidth fairy and that's the bandwidth fairy of course this week of course is mollywood guys that bandwidth fairy and she's going to she's going to break the internet in a good way that's right and and and break it free for all of us so we can get as much streaming video and video games and all kinds of stuff she's the bandwidth fairy and it's available to my online store right now take that Kim Kardashian break the internet wide open you have to read your bet your your voice bubble oh it's oh go ahead don't make molly read it make molly read molly can you read that totally and you get bad way it went away hold on hold on I'm putting online to stay okay there you and you get bad with and you get bad with and you get bad with let's break the internet to my pretty I'm losing my mind it's awesome and it is available right now in my online store and since we're running long I have one more thing to say one we have one more week to get drawn in to the DTNS first anniversary print if you go to patreon.com forward slash Len it's the 250 level and there are still a bunch of things left there's still a bunch of a bunch of slots left so if you want to get drawn into the anniversary poster please go and do that today patreon.com forward slash Len excellent do that and thank our patrons at 189 folks found enough value in the show to give it at least a five cents a day back so we appreciate that if you think you know what I could kick a little into go to daily tech news show comm slash donate if you can't don't worry about it and you you can still participate in the show at the subred and things like that producer Jenny needs your help she's building the year-end best of show and whether you're contributing to patreon or not she'd like your opinion on the best moments on DTNS so far it's a Google doc go in and add the date of your favorite moment an approximate time it happened in the show YouTube video handy for that or if you don't have time just email us your favorite moments feedback at daily tech news show comm I know that doc had a restriction problem yesterday but I think that's fixed so go to bit.ly slash DTNS best of all one word bit.ly slash DTNS best of don't forget you can have a voice in what stories we cover at our subreddit daily tech news show to reddit.com our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com you can give us call 51259 daily 5125932459 and listen to the show live 430 p.m. Eastern 130 Pacific on alphageekradio.com our website at daily tech news show dot com we'll be back Monday with the first appearance as an official contributor by Justin Robert Young see you then that was fun I can't stop looking at my bandwidth very self it's an old problem is this considered narcissistic it's like narcissists Friday like everybody's I thought you would be sure not to miss narcissists Fridays you know who you are you know what I'm talking to you you have teeny-tee and NCF I'm we're such nerds that we literally called each other to just like talk because we were like texting right now neutrality completely just totally like oh I can't believe this article oh can you believe this and then it was like we just need to talk about this on the phone and I was like man we are nerdy but it never gets old yeah it has been almost 10 years of net neutrality talk yeah dude we're old as hell I remember I remember sitting next to I remember sitting next to Craig Newmark on an airplane from Austin just by random chance and asking him like have you heard about this thing net neutrality and it was like the week that Randall is it Randall Stevenson from AT&T sorry had said like Google wants a free lunch yes that comment and back in the day it was like almost easier because it was just like wait a second you already get paid to deliver traffic and you want to get paid again to make sure it gets there I mean it was such a like straight up mafioso argument you know like yeah yeah you know everybody pays for a garbage service and then but you got to pay a little extra to make sure that we actually come to yes yeah like what I was trying to think okay I didn't use this in the show because I think it's a little hacknide but what Comcast is doing on the interconnect front which we I think wisely stayed away from that yeah because it's a different thing but what they're doing on the interconnect what if you could do it let's say Comcast had a streaming service that you could only buy through their pipe right it was like oh if you're a Comcast customer you can get the special service and you owned a really big apartment building so you were the ISP customer and then everything about in your apartment building could sign up for the Comcast service individually and a bunch of people were doing it and then your apartment building got so vast that you went to Comcast and said you know you need to pay me now because I've got all these customers in my apartment building that are paying you for your streaming service that's what Comcast is doing to level three right totally couldn't municipalities become a version of that of the apartment building of the apartment building well that's interesting I don't know could they just like start a program that's like hey we're gonna you know do like low-income housing for internet and be a big customer well and then say listen we're the municipality like we maintain the infrastructure around you know I mean they could sort of say like some happen to your telephone poles that exactly like totally take back the power city-state I really like it that like this is an issue where traditional roles of like who thinks what is a good idea is completely reversed do you know what I mean like like it's not often that you hear people but never mind I'm about to make generalities but I'm just fascinated by the idea that that it is probably the best idea at this point to leave it to the states leave it to the city that is not something I personally would often say right bandwidth will rise again is that what you're saying yeah I hear you I'm a secret states writer because I mean I'm you know not on every issue but to some extent because I came from Montana right like I just once in a while find myself like firmly on the side of states rights I'm like well I mean I do think that there is a place for national level incentive like we were talking about earlier I could see that being valuable but I could also see the yeah like take back the night municipalities why can I hear myself I'm like from like four different places I don't know super no does that just start to happen just now no I heard it during the show actually I could hear myself like just a little tiny echo and then just now I heard like a bunch of places I was like weird well I have to get going because I have to go um look at that snow no well look out left window yeah let's see you see it oh wow yeah there it is that's the snow unbelievable oh no it's not crazy when during the show it was coming down like you wouldn't believe so really unbelievable all right well yeah you better scamper and dig yourself out right on thank you so much it's always great to see you Molly thanks Len thanks Len take care we'll see you all right bye that was maybe my favorite drawing ever just what I thought I had a favorite drawing ever I know he always outdoes himself like the greatest the greatest I'm so lucky that he's continuing to do to be willing to do it too you know yeah and I am super excited for that poster it's going to be like the like the the Simpsons poster with all the characters only it's going to be like Tom and all the people and oh you mean the DTNS that he was talking about at the end yeah we're all in this together and that's amazing we're all in this together it's a bomb like what kind of show is great enough that I had like its own in-house illustrator basically freaking awesome all right I also better scamper pretty soon because I have to pee because I drink a bunch of tea and my editor I am to me in the middle of it so I guess I should figure out okay time to get back to work good job guys but great show I'm super glad that we have that pre-call yeah me too like that it did I was worried like oh I hope this doesn't like take the wind out of ourselves but it did the opposite I don't think it did it all it really helped focus it that and the ongoing argument that I've been having over email which is going to be doing like extra it's great it's like I'm like okay I got this although I am finding myself going in unexpected directions with regard to net neutrality which is interesting it's a complex issue and that's why I think the one thing that we said that I'm 100% sure certain of is we need new law yes like the internet doesn't fit any of the old law right like I just I disagree President Obama like yeah I'm glad that you're talking about it I guess except that it just makes it more of a partisan issue almost for him to wait in is almost destructive in some way yeah in some ways it certainly turned it into the Obamacare football instead of I know a reasonable debate although like Obamacare is working here comes the internet just drop that all right guys all right thanks bolly take care I'm gonna watch the show with Justin I'm excited all right bye all right we got some good titles I'm already exporting I picked one would you choose I picked beat master bias neutrality nice that's neutral like Korea was pretty close I would have gone with and you get internet and you get internet or broadband you get bad with then you get bad with yeah that's the one with only with exclamation points but it is a little long bias neutrality I like that oh oh thanks Suncast Suncast just thanked us on Twitter oh the twitters so no current geek this afternoon oh yeah I wondered about that Scott's uh out of pocket yeah well you know out of pocket is supposed to mean I'm paying my own way I mean I know it means out of how it became like and it became now it means he's not in the office to me it just was always something we said when we were about to go cover something in an area with no cell phone service which is okay I'm going to be out of pocket for but but but I think the transition comes from somebody saying like yeah I'm going to be in a place where you know I'm going to be on my own not the company won't be paying for me so I'll be out of pocket and then that feels similar to I'm going to be away you won't be able to contact me right there's a similarity there maybe that's the the history of that anyway yes he's out of pocket you're right he's not here he's uh he's doing something else I don't I don't know what the conflict was actually but we'll be back next week cool we got sleepy all of a sudden it's the Friday sleepies look like that live editing live editing wake up wake up it works okay I don't know why I did that it gave me a little red x on the file for a second that's a Dropbox thing I think but okay well you got any gum um on the plus side I just uploaded a video to YouTube and it was blazingly fast ah very nice so I'm back in that game now the only bad part of that is once you catch up on the YouTube channel for daily tech news show I won't be able to find our net neutrality special video because right now it's at the very bottom of the page we could make a playlist for it where yeah we should get to the top yeah let's do that that's a good idea I was surprised I was like oh it's still it's still on the page there yeah let's let's feature it yeah that's a good one to feature most death and this one yeah for sure it's good you know Veronica was talking about net neutrality on uh Take Part Live yesterday nice it's it's news it sure is did I not add the oh man sorry folks I forgot to add the um album art only the AUG users will get it now uh too many cheese breads for lunch make jenny too many cheese too many cheese those little at the brazilian place they have like little cheese below round cheese bread have you watched too many cooks yet no not yet it is part of your essential internet education yeah I'm on it it's part of your daily breakfast of meme I have this whole list queued up in a browser that's like Benedict Cumberbatch imitating 11 people in 60 seconds I just watched that this morning yeah too many cooks takes 11 minutes too so you gotta you gotta make sure you got time at the end of the week yeah that and uh what the hell's put us oh it's still processing sorry that's why oh bonfire of the inanities the history of the New York times style section I'm pretty excited about that I got some good reading oh best game idea to play with friends over Skype Baship Casey McKinnon was asking for ideas and Leslie ran had that one smart nice Casey McKinnon why do I know that name why that name is like getting confused with oh Casey has been around the internets for a long time we've had her on court killers a bunch and on night attack it's like one of the you think you totally and then you realize you don't know it and then you're curious oh there you go I got it Kate McKinnon that's right too many cooks did it to myself so wait have you read the science of interstellar yet you've already read it is that what you were saying to me now I wasn't ever talking about interstellar you were before when earlier when you said you are talking to the host sword and laser so I took that to mean that you have read the book called the science of interstellar you said you said nobody reads books oh that's what I was I didn't say that I would never say that someone else said that that wasn't me no you you said something like that you said something like like nobody I you said something like I can't read books anymore but I'm really enjoying this one the science of interstellar or I didn't say that no no no no that's what I read I read like two books a day I'm like a book book crazy yeah yeah you could check out the geek radio I feel like I never would have said I would have maybe said sarcastically nobody reads books but I read a lot of books maybe it was sarcastic yeah someone else said nobody reads books anymore that was not me all I know is that there was an assault on books but it didn't come from me you were telling me no but what you who was assaulting books said then I thought you said you was okay spider I've got it I've got it recorded I know please go back and check it out I stand by my position check the tape I stand by my position I love books I will be reading books at the end oh you know who's calling I know who's calling do you know who's calling I gotta take this call is it Time Runner Cable no it's it's people who are coming to the farmer's market oh oh okay yeah so I gotta go all right well thanks bye everybody