 how does it look you're clear now to me just wipe my nose in my trousers okay just start with two huge nasty notes all righty little silence for editing i'm going to leave that bit in you should just wipe my nose on my trousers yeah so good all righty good morning everybody drew here that anxiety guy dot com it is morning it's a saturday morning yeah yeah well it's afternoon but joined again by my pal billy was it's like it's morning for you it's afternoon for me but it's nighttime when you're watching this so that's exist so there you go so it's what i'm confused it's nothing time we're warping time and space that's what we do here so so after skipping last week because of my my hectic travel schedule yes yes my week in Florida almost week in Florida and you know we're back again so we're going to take some some questions like we did last time that i think that went over went over pretty well now yeah we have all we didn't we haven't really got a topic because every time we pick one the answer is just do it so we figured that's true and we started we had the best of attentions with how do i always end up with you just do it like we kind of kind of wore that out a little bit the answer is always just do it i know it's hard and i would scary just do it so what we've been doing the last couple of weeks is just asking for questions from our little facebook group and if you're not in the group as always follow the link and wherever you're watching the description and we'll join the group so we ask a question billy posted yesterday if anybody has any questions so we these are just kind of weekly q and a's that this so you like you prompted me used your initiative said why don't you post something in the group so we did it early and we got less less questions how was that what the hell is wrong with you guys i think here's what i think might have been the issue i'm gonna it's all lost it got lost because it was so early and the group was so busy now it just got scrolled down so you posted it in like the afternoon us time where people are ostensibly maybe not looking at the group so much and then it's scrolled down so but it's all right we got a couple of good questions so we'll we'll run with them we'll see where we end up yes yes probably something completely around we are going to talk about god knows but yeah that's fine it's going to work out anyway um i have a little tip here what you're drinking i'm actually just drinking water i was going to make green tea but i decided i'm just thirsty so i just drink water so that's what i'm doing what do you got i've got like english tea today camera marble shit i'm going back to my roots or yeah yeah url gray black that's how that's what we know here like no no because like tea with milking but you guys don't do that no no we put milk and tea i do yeah yeah like not green tea i don't know why no no no yeah well tea is just tea i've had this conversation so many times with americans probably because we don't understand yeah it's it's we we don't understand number we don't boil our water well i'm constantly berated like why don't you americans boil the freaking water before you make your tea like we all right hey nobody got time for that like it's just hot enough it's so hot hot water out of the tap that's how you make it serious no but i'll be i'll be honest with you there have been times when i made tea i mean it's hot it would take the skin off your hands but it's not it's not actually boiling and it's like god that's that's close enough like all right i can just make tea with that then it's evidently very offensive to my british reds to do that but i knew tea growing up triggered yeah tea was something i knew as like if you were sick you drank tea like otherwise we're not big tea drink and and there would be milk in it so over here if you if you're sick you drink lucas aid like that's the maybe i don't think you've ever heard of that it's like a glucose kind of fizzy shit it's like an energy drink but it's not quite as bad as red bull well like gatorade do you have gatorade there or is it that's your version of gatorade i guess maybe yeah maybe yeah it's like you know replenishes your electrolytes but that's the one yeah i'm like same stuff those are better already yeah see here we don't drink that then again we're off on some ridiculous topic because i do but gatorade isn't something sick gatorade is like when you're out there and you're smashing it you know because you're just so extremely athletic because advertising has to make talking of athletic yes i had a i had an alert come through because i got a new phone i got the galaxy s9 which is i'm like promoting that shit that is good nice i got an alert on there the other day saying i'd set a new target or set a new reach a new achievement four minutes of activity in 24 hours well four minutes four minutes like i'd reached a new level yes me that is making me laugh so hard four minutes really that's what yes seriously four minutes wow that's impressive so yeah i've been i've been busy you sure you got the energy to do this you want to lay down a little bit i'm sitting it's okay i've done three minutes already so i'm sorry for after this all right let's get into some questions here okay okay all right well just take them from the top so our man cat from romania come on support groups like yours what should be the limit on post-event anxiety symptoms how do we encourage each other and bullying well i think he meant without bullying i don't think yeah yeah how do we bully people i'm pretty sure he bloody yeah um and yeah of course it it it triggered a couple of you know responses about that like people would be they wouldn't want there to be a limit i don't i think i think in support groups like ours there can't be a limit you can't tell somebody like okay that's your fifth symptoms too bad too late yeah like putting you in the penalty box yeah you can't have that you can't have that so i i think i think there should be no limit but i think the tone this is where the tone of the group matters and why our group is i think so different because the the group really does have a tone i think we think yeah i think this video is going to be mostly about the group isn't it it seems to be because that was most but i think they relate directly to to the whole recovery thing so it's okay yeah but yeah and i think there can't be there can't be a limit i would never impose a limit like sorry you've posted this too many times but depends on the tone of the group some groups are just that you join will just be all about that so you could spend two years in that group talking about being dizzy and people will be happily to do yeah yeah join you with you know me too i'm dizzy too and okay that's fine i think you got to ask yourself like are you getting any benefit from posting these things like you set your own limit knowing whether you're posting the same damn question over and over right you know i think we discussed that a bit yeah we do yeah because there's another another question that comes up like that as well yeah similar kind of thing and maybe we should skip to that one and then we'll come back um who asked that it was Henry who asked about that people who asked the same questions again and again and again and then actually then Heather asked a related question too so we might as well pull up them all together what people asking the same question over and over again in the in a thread about how ironic how does that happen yes that is the definition of irony by the way a little programming note or at least a note right now these people ask me this all the time like what what do you do when you have a panic attack this this is what i do right now i just in the last 45 seconds had a huge spike of whatever that is right right now so are we serious so i'm absolutely serious right now no way yep yep i feel so i'll tell you right right now it's my turn so extremely derealized right now so i'm looking at you at the screen but i'm not really looking at you at the screen and i'm trying to focus on my phone it's a little bit difficult and i feel like i'm on a boat you know that that rocky feeling but yeah this is what i do no kidding no shit really in the last it's any consolation i'm sitting here like sweating i am literally sweating but that's because i've done three minutes of exactly right that's the four minutes of activity and coming back to bite you in the ass say that's you better not with that activity trust so yeah so when people want to know what it looks like when drew has a panic attack i won't say that i'm at a level 10 panic right now i've not but for whatever reason i think just fatigue flying yesterday not sleeping the last week it was you know it was a lot going on yeah yeah so the travel blah blah blah it's probably caught up to be a little bit so looks like this if anybody i don't have anybody i don't have anybody able to tell but i am this is years and years and years of practice at yeah yeah it's like i guess it's because i said last week or not last week two weeks ago when we were doing that as i was feeling uncomfortable for nearly the whole thing but like looks exactly the same it looks the same as all of our videos right yeah right exactly so i just to to um expand on it a little bit like if i can where can i say that would help people now like there are still thoughts that enter my head of like it's a little bit chilly in my office here at the house there's a heater there's a heater on the floor so what happens when this happens in your body like you do sweat a little bit you know that's a natural part of the adrenaline dump so i'm sweating a little bit which means if it's chilly so now i feel the sweat evaporating so i'm a little bit cold my hands are a little bit cold and uh so i had that fleeting thought like get stop the video get up turned on the heater because you're cold mm-hmm but that immediately gets immediately gets answered with so what you're cold just be cold yeah like i'm not i didn't spend any time going through the chain that i just went through with you well adrenaline means sweat and it's cold and that means it's fine but there's still even many years into it that flashing thought that says uh oh i feel cold and clammy yeah you must do something about that but it immediately gets answered with do nothing about that just keep talking about here awesome start to the freaking video crazy right i was in no way like expecting that and there have been times when i have felt panic or high anxiety would have thought i should grab the video to grab the phone because people always ask me and i haven't because it usually doesn't last that long and even now it's like already kind of going away so what is four minutes or so since i mentioned that to you but yes so you actually just watched me have not a full blown panic attack but near panic i would say same mechanism that everybody watching goes through where that flash happens sudden derealization sudden depersonalization my heart started beating really quickly made my breathing might you might be able to tell i'm breathing a little bit differently possibly yeah i'd have to watch it back because yeah i have no idea you can't well you can't stop that like your breathing is going to change a little because of the adrenaline and just that feeling of like i this i should shut this down and yeah fix this but better off that i didn't so there you go and it's already pretty much gone so there you go and yeah so there you go and i guess so i will just add here yeah yeah no i don't know whether to yeah i'm gonna put this on my channel people that people that watch my video the 60 second cure yes cure for panic attacks like the thing that i say in that is to do nothing like it's just a video of 60 seconds of me doing nothing and that's exactly what you've just done nothing i get so much shit on that video people saying are you you must have never had a panic attack and this than the other you've got no idea because you can't just do nothing well i'm gonna direct people to this young man yeah yeah it's true and you know just because there was there were those same i'm just i feel like i should try and explain as much as i can to be helpful yeah perfect like those same thoughts still come in even now 20 years later or even you know well well by many years into what i would i always describe as full recovery like yes full recovery so right now i had an experience that if i go back to when you and i first met would have been a nightmare would have ruined the rest of my day would have lasted all day you know it would have been really bad but but the same thoughts still occur and i talk all the time about people say but how do you do that how do you do it how do you do it you just do it like for me it's not like i know i i know like well i could do nothing it's still be fine it's totally fine yeah you know um because i know that there's nothing really wrong which is but i know that because of experience of doing i was gonna say yeah yeah so many so many times i knew always knew logically that there was nothing wrong but until you have the experience of do nothing and still be okay so there's that but the same thoughts still come how do i people always say well i don't understand and that's how we talk about like the meditation thing with susan and learning that skill of knowing like this is a skill of knowing where you want your so i could have either put my focus on i feel a little bit dizzy or focus on i do i why does it really look so weird to me now and why am i sweating and why well people already they came out wrong but you know why why do i feel this way this is oh my god i could have focused inward on all of those things but at that point i could make the decision to say no my focus i want my focus to be on doing this task that we're doing and i am able to over many many many many years it doesn't take it didn't take me years to get there but over many many opportunities to practice this and using meditation and things like that could put my focus from like oh it's screaming at me here and i focus on it for a half a second and then like nope i'm gonna put my focus right back here because that's where i want it and i yeah and i know how to put it there so in a way that mechanism when i say let it scream in your face it was screaming in my face but i can just it's i don't know how to describe it so i was saying happening to me just putting my focus here now that's where it's going to go because that's where i want it and i control where my focus goes yeah and that skill whether it's to help you know make this little episode pass really quickly which it did or just in general like in conducting business and and solving problems hugely hugely hugely valuable to be able to focus here here then here then here then here really rapidly but every time i focus is on something it's fully on that even if it's only for six or seven seconds and then i can switch to the next thing the next thing the next thing so so many benefits to learning how to do this so many i was i was talking to tina about it the other day because i was i was on a call to her but like i think it was the night before i was just sitting on the sofa i was playing on playstation as i do but i was just getting like this mad extreme tension it just be like a split second thing where i i'd feel like shit this is a panic just like i don't know i can't explain the feeling that come over me but it was just like a split thing but like i acknowledged it straight away and just like i just thought to myself i'm not going there because that would usually be the trigger for me to start escalating and i'd build to a panic but for some reason like it happened twice the other night and i was just sat there and i didn't do i literally did nothing about it i just i'm not thought to myself right like that's the feeling that i get well that's the feeling i've had in the past when i've led to a panic but i'm not going to do that today yes i'm going to sit here and just like notice that that's just happened but that's it and just keep doing what it is you want to be doing yeah yeah yeah just back to what i was doing and just let's give that no more thought like i was just just a feeling that i experienced i'm not going to feed it with all this bullshit thinking right right which makes perfect sense that's kind of what you do it and i think the last thing that i probably add on this because like i don't really feel it anymore everything's back to normal for the most part is my heart rate is still a little my Fitbit tells me my heart rate is close reasonably close it's not a medical device but you know if i when i first glanced at it before when i said that i was in that i wanted to see what it was and it was it was 92 because i have a really low resting heart rate so 92 we're just sitting in a chair talking to you is high but it's supposed to be high like that's what adrenaline does now i'm like in the 70s which it'll go down into the low 60s in another minute or two but um i think the sensations i felt i feel the same sensations and have the same thoughts that everybody does yeah they're still there it's just that they don't they truly don't matter i hope that that was really an illustration of how little it matters because people question all the time how could that possibly be like i'm guessing it's all about that second fear isn't it it is you can't stop that flash or the feeling that you experience it's still a way to go with it it's still happening and and even being useful on a plane like yesterday we were chatting while i was in the air like you and i and uh free and flight wi-fi whoo awesome it's great yeah so uh and i think even then like i'm still not a big fan of flying so yeah you know but the cool thing about it is like it's still we hit a little bump here in there or whatever and it still gives me that startle but uh i don't it even that and that's just a simple phobia of flying that's not a panic thing but even then i don't like don't i don't let it steamroll like okay that that was uncomfortable next like on to the next moment and it's fine so so many lessons to learn and can that can be used like in the rest of life for what it's worth all right so there you go congratulations you got to win this this is already the best episode we've had my back is literally dripping good sweat right now you want to like take it so we could edit you want to kill the hoodie or whatever it's fine now my t-shirt's terrible underneath it's big i'll tell you why it's because the heating that i've got in this house it's crap and you have to put it on overnight and then it heats the house the next day but it's pretty mild today so i've had had the heating on overnight and it's just like uh oh it's a sauna and you're living yeah i hate what happens beautiful all right so we were talking about talking about symptoms in the group or in a support group because i think a lot of people watching whether in our group or not are some sort of internet support group Facebook or wherever and so cat had asked about limiting that what should the limit on post b and we said there should be a limit and then henry said have a discussion about constantly asking the same questions or feels like statements when other members have already asked the same questions before and had it answered by others but still continue to ask i think and then heather asks about let's see and then heather asked about well we'll take ours next so let's answer that one asking the same questions over and over and asking questions that have already been answered i think we see it like this yeah i think like when i've joined groups like unrelated to anxiety the first thing that i would do would not be to search previous posts i'd be going in there to ask my question so i think we can forgive people that just joined and i yeah i think they don't yeah they yeah they don't know anything about like what drew says i mean if because probably 90 percent of the people that joined don't watch that video that you've put as the announcement thing they should 100 they should but they i i i don't thinking about that they're so they're yeah feeling scared out their minds or whatever and they want an answer to whatever it is that's bothering them that's caused them to join the group in the first place correct which is i think normal behavior you'll do it you know and like you said you'll do it even in a group that has nothing to do with anxiety like answer my question like yeah yeah yeah so we could all be slightly lazy and self-centered that way i think just normal that's what people do that's what we do and then in this situation people come to a group like an anxiety support group they are incredibly self-centered we talked about this not and i don't mean that in a like a personality defect kind of way they're just all about how they feel and what they're thinking getting help yeah me me me he puts you in me me mode not like i said not in a bad way just that's your survival mode in a way so i think it's to be expected and i understand that sometimes in a group and i know why henry is asking to like henry's one of those people who's a little further down the road and he stays around to help yeah which which i so appreciate everybody that does that you know yeah it's huge and i know that they can get frustrated like so it can get frustrating i think yeah but the best advice would be to just scan over it just don't right like if you feel that you can't be constructive or if you feel that you're gonna maybe offend somebody by saying like search the freaking post and that just don't i would say just yeah that's my advice it's true don't get on people's backs unless they keep doing the same thing if they keep asking and keep asking and again and again so i think we're going to see new people roll in and and i mentioned in one of my responses that remembered that everybody goes through at this point i'm pretty confident saying this just because of the thousands of people i've dealt with like there's there are stages like you know the five stages of grief that they always talked about and all that stuff there are stages in this too so the news the first stage is i don't know what this is i'm convinced i'm physically dying i must go see doctors yeah and then we usually see people like in the group or in these sort of support groups that have gone through that's they've done that part already they might still be kind of doing it but now they're into the first stages of what do i do about this yeah and it's all new to them they don't they've never heard of claire weeks they've never heard of cognitive behavior therapy they don't know what's going on and they're still focused on their symptoms and so that's normal like yeah i went through that you went through that holly went through that everybody went through that so understand that you might be seeing a person join the group because the bigger the group gets the more facebook shows it to people i think yeah that's what i'm seeing yeah so yeah um so we might be you might be looking at a person who's in one of those early stages they must go through that stage and i think what happens in our group sometimes and i think this happens i don't have any real data because i haven't followed anybody specifically but i think some people who are in the early stages they hang around for a while they listen they watch what goes on they start to get the gist of it and then they begin to participate or it's true that some people show up in that early stage they are the ones that maybe ask the questions again and again and again and again yeah they maybe get some feedback from people trying to be helpful pointing and trying to steer them in the right direction and and they leave they determine like this is not for me yeah at least in our group so i don't think you're doing it just be patient and if you're one of those people that's hanging around trying to help you you can't help everybody so what i try and do for if it helps at all is i if i see a post from a new person especially if i've been busy and have been that active did someone else already answer it and i'll just let it go you know if no one else has answered i will try and jump in and answer it so that person doesn't feel left out but i think that's you have to just admit understand that that's a stage that everybody goes through yeah that's okay it's okay but i think if they keep if they stay stuck in that stage it's okay to try and steer them yeah definitely yeah yeah without a doubt and and i wanted to mention something else i said it in my answer in the group like that is a thing when you were one of these groups and we've talked about this before coaches and programs and books and things that you can buy this is where it becomes a question for somebody like me somebody like you even someone like holly like we're spending our time on this how much time can you spend like you want the group to be super productive i want to see like i want people to get help i want to watch people progress and stuff so it can be frustrating and you think like is there a better way to deliver this information i get suggestions all the time like shouldn't there be an f a q there should be files there should be videos there should be that's right it would it would be helpful if something was created but then it's it's more time isn't it right so that has to be a like i'm not going to do it right i have to acknowledge that like while i may shit all over the anxiety coaches and people that are selling things like i understand zeus there has been times believe me where this group has challenged me to almost want to do that like i should make an online course like okay if you're new to this go and take this 10 hour course yeah like not because i want to buy a lamborghini like i don't need that but because you i'll buy you a lamborghini here's here's a public statement i'll buy my friend billy lamborghini if i'm ever able to um yeah but you know what i mean like yeah no it makes sense it makes sense it would rule out all those questions wouldn't it would be a case of go do this and then come back to the group and then we'll share and right right by all means read and listen to stuff but go do this five hour video course whatever but producing a five hour video course or producing a book a 300 page book takes time months you know a lot of a lot of time and so how can somebody do that for nothing so like it's a struggle to a certain extent because i have many many people who are like what you should do that why don't you do that why don't you do that well you know it takes time and then then it would be a money thing yeah yeah it's tricky it is right yeah yeah run dmc said that it's tricky and they were right tricky there you go um i thought that was worth mentioning then heather as can you guys talk about as someone who is further down the road in recovery or maybe already recovered how to help and not hinder those who are in the beginning stages how can we be compassionate and empathetic but get off our white horses i i guess i know what what she's saying like so you're a little bit further down the road how do you help somebody without sounding like you're being preachy yeah yeah that's another good question got a good answer for that one i don't know because i'm just unapologetic preachy and aggressive so i yeah yeah well i because i've been so i've been down there but i've also been up there so often like i flip flop between good and bad so i just i'm just the same wherever i am like it makes no difference the answers are still the same i guess yeah there's no sugar coating is that that's the i think there is no sugar coating so heather to answer your question if you're watching i know she's gonna watch um of course um i know heather will watch to answer the question like you just answered the best way you can i think the best that you can do and and when you're trying to help other people that's a huge sign to me like they say the last step in recovery is using what you learned to help someone else avoid what you went through and i believe that to be true so if you find that you're in the group and you're actually starting to offer advice or in any group whether it's as or any other like that's a really good sign that's a really good sign yeah um and i think you just do it the best way you can don't never no personal attacks um relate your own experience it's probably that's what i was gonna say yeah yeah advice from from experience that's that's what makes this group so different i think like there's no nobody's learned anything here or nobody's preaching from textbooks and stuff right it's life that's what they've actually done yeah like because i know there's a question about does this method work that we're talking about like yeah do that next takes experience to say that yes it does yeah and i think one of things that we see a lot and and heathers you specifically which is a great question i appreciate it like i think heathers posts when she she digs in and offers somebody advice or answers someone's question she is almost always relating it to her own experience like i did this and it didn't work so i changed to this and it is working and i think there's never a problem saying that i've i've very rarely have ever seen anybody say you know be condescending or or mean like i think it's more valuable to the person that's posted the question in the first place if they get a response from somebody that can completely relate to it yes like that i had that problem but i did this yeah yeah i used to do what you're doing and it didn't work so i changed to doing this instead yeah yeah definitely that's always i think there's ever anything wrong with with doing that and honestly at least in our group i encourage that because otherwise it's just like oh it's okay we understand this is so hard you're a warrior it's okay to not be okay a lot of this a lot of it's okay no one understands and then that doesn't get people anywhere and that's what makes us different so you guys just keep doing what you're doing heather you're doing fine um should we then go to the i'm just reading through here we just got another one we just got another one we did okay um really cross asks does anyone have any questions for today's video as a matter of fact belly that was me go on what's your question you're on it i think before randy asked about bumps in the road and and sort of setbacks and bad periods that's a good one we should we'll talk about that for sure let's talk about donna has asked several times i want to answer my friend donna here how to create a vision like do you have a don i'm not a hundred percent sure that question really is to be honest like that i'm not sure what the vision means do you have like a vision of so like is it having a vision of what you think your life should be or i'm not sure yeah is it like visualizing goals or is it like the end game like the way you want to be maybe and i'm done i'm sorry that i'm not answering this very well but i'm not i'm not a hundred percent sure the question but i can i think a vision what's useful about having a vision i think one of the things is we get so wrapped up when you're in the thick of it you're wrapped up minute by minute and how you feel how do i feel this minute next minute next minute almost second by second sometimes so it could be hard to change that and think down the road like where do i want to be and you know what should i be doing that will be helpful to be tomorrow as opposed to how do i escape these feelings right this second yeah yeah so that's the only thing i could think of is like it is helpful to be able to think in the in the terms of the future but the future sometimes if you're in the thick of it and you're just going minute by minute right now which i think in many instances don is so open on the board so i don't think she might be saying this i know she is um just trying to get through each minute each urge to check blood pressure or you know that sort of thing that the vision i would urge you to have if you're stuck in a minute by minute is just start learning to think five minutes ahead of time that's the only vision you need right now like you don't need a grand vision of what i will look like when i'm fully recovered and what life i will live and live my best life and you don't need that yeah like if you're good most of the day then fine start thinking about what's going to happen next week or in a month or what your big life plan is going to be but if you're stuck second by second minute by minute dealing with your symptoms like in that mode where you're living second by second and focus inward just try and think five minutes down the road that's the only vision yeah i'm trying to think there was something that i read something about like have goals and stuff like that and like how people that are chasing those dreams they're never actually happy because like they're constantly chasing something else where if you just like if you're happy with how you are now like just live in the moment i guess it's the the mindfulness stuff of being like present now like this is what this is what we've got this is who we are like we'll end up where we end up man right shit happens so just that's that's true some some people would say like a vision is a bad idea that's a whole that's like yeah yeah yeah yeah it's not bad it's not a bad idea to have like motivations and goals that you want to reach but i think the longer that you're chasing them like you're not going to be happy until you reach that goal so i'm like i'm happy now because fuck goals you know i mean right that's the way i'm trying to think about things it's just like whatever it is what it is i think don is question about vision and to me just to reiterate i would think just try and think a little further down the road than you're currently thinking now so if you're stuck minute by minute don't worry about what's going to happen in 10 years don't try and build a grand vision i must visualize my recovered life just try and visualize what's going to happen five minutes from now like what what can i do right this minute that will benefit me in five minutes or 10 minutes which is usually the opposite of what you're doing like it's always comes down to that but but i think that leads to it kind of plays into danny's question also which was can you talk about following a structured recovery plan versus doing it alone and entirely unplanned so a vision we could talk about a vision and then they just went into a conversation about australia day so that's fine um i guess we don't need to talk about that but a vision and plan might be similar like we should probably should try to talk about that let's talk about that one and then we'll go back to randy setbacks and then we'll talk about the big question which is is this effective um so having a structured plan versus winging it what have you done have you been kind of have you winged it you think you're going back and forth over time i think yeah yeah i mean i've tried plans i've tried winging it i've tried everything pretty much the only thing i haven't tried is just persistence yeah i think that's the key to it like i've there's no real structure to what i'm doing now i'm just doing something every day whatever it is like i spent last weekend tidy in the house completely top to bottom yeah so like we talked about just doing something yep and it could you know i was completely out of my own head so it's just been refreshing like i went to the retail park here into a big sport shop the other night it's only the second time i've ever been in there it's like been there freaking 15 years yeah like just doing stuff just not sitting being in my own head all the time right i don't know but there's no specific plan like i haven't got i must do this or this is my goal like i've got my real goals at the moment it's just as long as i'm doing something yeah better than me doing nothing it's true but i would argue that maybe that's a plan like you made that shift a month or two ago between yeah i will sit and wait and then go try and do a giant exposure and then sit and wait again like that was that was sort of your plan and now your plan is like just do something every day yeah yeah it's a plan but it's not like because if you remember like i made the list of five things years ago and did and that was like i see that as more structured because i was attempting these things every day yes whereas now it's just like i as long as i do something and challenge myself and make myself feel those feelings where i need to challenge myself then that's that's where i see myself which i think is is helping so that shift in strategy so that to kind of direct dany's specifically address dany's question and she followed up because she had a conversation with rebecca here um keen aware of his vaping was mentioned in what yes they were talking about vaping and i guess in in another thread i want to mention rebecca's video too because i think it was really good um it seems a lot of people don't know or don't have a graded exposure plan she's talking about graduating in the u.s we call graduated exposure or have been or have been made aware of their safety behavior and their avoidance like they don't they don't know so we're we're talking we're painting at very broad strokes in these videos and we talk in the group in very broad strokes but we rarely ever get to the very specifics of this and so i think she makes a good dany makes a good point here like there there does need to be at least a strategy if not a plan some people do better with like okay today we'll go to the grocery store tomorrow i will do this and that's fine yeah if you're that person that's a good thing to do but i think more so than that a plan of exactly what you will do is understanding the the systematic nature this process so even though you know billy you don't really necessarily have a plan that you're following you do have a strategy now that's different than your old one yeah yeah yeah and that strategy definitely plays into the systematic nature of the process that everybody every we're all living the same system yeah whether you know it or not we're all living in the same system because we're all the same brain functions but um so your strategy you got to pick a strategy here that acknowledges that this is a systematic process it's a gradual process and we always talk about taking small steps often as opposed to big steps once in a while yeah yeah um and i think that awareness that says of what you're actually doing you're extinguishing safety behaviors and building and putting other behaviors in its place so just saying like okay i'm gonna do my exposures do you understand what the exposures are actually accomplishing yeah and i think many people don't i mean yeah they just it's just a general idea of like well i know i have to face the fear so general concept must face the fear but then they wind up white knuckling through it just just bearing it um or not even understanding the things in their lives that they're avoiding so this is not a we should probably just do we could probably do a series of videos just on this yeah you like really get down yeah well we did one like how to yeah how to make a recovery plan but the real actual nuts and bolts of like what are you actually accomplishing so when you go out and go for a walk that is difficult for you what are you actually doing in that walk the mechanism that you're following because understanding that probably matters and it would change people's perspectives on the process too it's so much more than just face your fear which sounds like one of those amorphous like be a warrior and go toward the fear and be courageous yeah you need that yeah to do it tiring he gets tiring just doing that and that's why people motivation a lot that that's exactly right because sometimes I think it's because dany's probably right they don't understand that this is a graduated systematic sequential thing and what are the nuts and bolts that are actually happening you're understanding what you're doing to avoid and learning to not do that and replacing that behavior with another behavior replacing certain thoughts with other thoughts so every single time out you're accomplishing something and maybe they they don't understand that like I'm just working so hard and how come it's not getting better instantly why do I still feel this way and maybe because of that so that's a that's more of a topic than I even thought it's a yeah it's a what to do and why why are you doing this what is happening here and then that's like the nuts and bolts of cognition and learning theory which we can be thrilled to talk about because I'm a big like cognition geek so I like that stuff you're about that all day I'll just sit here saying mm-hmm yeah we'll have to do one at one point where you and me and Holly are together because Holly Holly would help with that too I think see I'm doing it now doing it now that's what ASMR vaping sounds I actually found an ASMR watch review the other day somebody actually did a review of a wristwatch that was an ASMR review anyway there you go so Danny thank you for that question you prompted a probably whole series of videos that's good I think to answer the question quickly like it's better to have you need some sort of strategy you don't necessarily have to have a daily plan that might be helpful and if you're working with a therapist you will have a daily plan yeah yes will give you specific tasks to do the therapist will ask you to identify what do you want to accomplish what do we want to work on and then here are tasks you will do as your homework before you come back and see me again so there will be a structured plan but if you're on your own you need at least a strategy and an understanding of what you're trying to accomplish and what you're trying to accomplish isn't a big giant recovery like recovery is you know you need to break it down to little goals so we'll talk about that in some other time so where else are we here jump back and forth sorry guys come on Randy talked Randy talked about uh hey Billy I think it would be helpful to discuss bumps in the road I know you guys don't like the term setbacks it would be helpful uh to people a little bit further down the road in recovery how do we deal with the ups and downs of recovery I know it would be helpful to me as I've been an up and down cycle from hell lately curious if you guys might have an idea what type of things might set off bad periods it is a common thing stress everybody goes through it stress for me stress and sleep and yeah I guess there's a number of things but it's how you respond to those setbacks in it it's whether you can deal with whatever's causing it or if you can identify if there is something because sometimes like you just go into these setbacks without any reason you don't know yeah like the vertigo thing for me that was like a bit of a setback and I see people talking about that again like somebody else had vertigo it's like sometimes you don't know or if something comes out of the blue just deals with and then it's how you deal with that those feelings it's how you interpret them are you gonna add like oh shit this is going to bring more anxiety or is it oh shit like this is happening let's deal with it well I'm so knowledgeable no that it's a really good answer so it's not so much the setback or or the bad time it's how you deal with it yeah yeah I think like my experience is like people get into this what they call a setback sometimes often it's because they were expecting like they're doing really well and then suddenly they feel things they haven't felt for a couple of weeks or a month and then they feel like oh no that went backwards yeah yeah so often a setback is defined by the individual experiencing it as I was doing so great and now I'm having a week where I feel so anxious but that's not a setback like because the goal is not to not feel anxious so often the setback I'm talking about two things number one the stress that you're talking about and then that's the nuts and bolts nice fucking fly of uh like it's always one it's always one I think it's the same one he waits then he comes back Saturday killed it so many times that's disturbing that's like some sort of undead zombie fly it just has a vendetta against you in some way in England zombie undead flies but I think it's important if you feel like you're going through a rough period usually it's because of how you feel and remember that the goal here is never to not it's not to feel different that's the secondary outcome I mean it's the outcome everybody wants but the but your target here is not to change the way you feel it's the way it's to change the way you react to how you feel so if you're doing great and you're out and you're pushing it and like all of a sudden you're in the supermarket and you're you're getting back to work and you're doing things and you went to a birthday party and all these cool things are happening and usually the happiness is I'm doing it and wow I didn't even panic like okay that's awesome it means you are making progress but then you have a bit of a panic and then you start to feel anxiety for a few days and suddenly it's like oh I'm backwards but but you're not backwards because those things must happen and when they happen the progress is measured by do I just go back and sit on the sofa again until I feel better or do I just keep going even though I feel this way because I'm less afraid of how I feel this time yeah yeah realizing that you're in no no danger right so this it's never a you know if your goal if you're if you think you're getting out and doing this work because you will change how you feel then you have the wrong goal like you need to be doing the work even when you feel badly so that you change the way you react to how you feel that's how yeah and I can only just say well trust me after many many years of this like and many many many millions of people who do this process like those things will happen sometimes you just watched me have a near panic attack on video 15 minutes ago whatever it was like that can still happen to me but the difference is who cares like yeah and so that's your goal you're trying to get to where that where you can have a panic attack on video while you're doing this thing no one would even know that's your goal not to never panic again or not to ever feel anxious you know anxiety again but then but then the other thing that could set up the setback is like you said stress just people lose track of like there's the anxiety disorder that you're working on and there's just being alive like yeah your boss is an asshole or like you lose your job or you're having money problems huge me too he's he's yeah my money problems are your kids are driving you crazy whatever it is yeah yeah some we forget that like life events get entangled in this disorder so like oh I hate my mother-in-law she makes me panic no she doesn't like your in-laws don't make you panic your boyfriend doesn't make you panic your boss doesn't make you panic they are stressors and when you're in the midst of an anxiety disorder you panic over that yeah you turn life stress and as you go further down the road those things will begin to separate and it'll get clearer like I have an anxiety disorder I'm afraid to drive and my sister-in-law just said something nasty to me and I hate her those are two different things this well what's happened don't have to name names oh I don't want to name any names um that you know but they're right like these are two different things like there's like stress and then there's this thing that you're working on and stay first start like you can't separate the two and then over time they will begin to yeah I think yeah that that's where I'm at so you can differentiate between the two right right so it's you'll feel like oh I had a really crappy week here for whatever reasons in life maybe you were ill or something happened but you won't tie that into this is an anxiety setback that will get better as you go so the advice is just keep going remember what the goal is if you start to feel badly again after having two really good weeks or three really good weeks or a month or two that are good you feel bad this week just keep doing what you've been doing the past three months even though you feel that way it doesn't matter that you so that that's my big setback advice I think you're you're doing that now it seems I don't know but it seems to me like you are like it's been a while now since I heard you say like I don't know man I'm just you know you would do every once in a while you'd say that to me like I don't know it's not to say that I'm not yeah it's not to say that I'm not experiencing those same feelings it's just that I'm not right like I'm not letting it escalate at the moment yeah that's not to say that it won't like it might do after this video am I enduring yeah yeah I think that's the I've got a shift in my mind it's like I'm just not focusing on how I've been feeling or what what I'm doing is how it's making me feel like I'm not thinking about it right that's what I'm trying to do like the biggest the biggest thing for me at the minute is anticipation like the sport sport shop the other day I went with my dad and my daughter and we were just sat in the car outside the place and we probably sat there for like five 10 minutes and they were both like hammering me come on like get out the car you gotta come in like my my daughter was saying what is it you're scared of and I was like no idea my dad said what's the difference between the pub like that I went to with Ben and going in here and I was like there is no difference like the difference is in how I'm thinking about this task now that's the only difference it doesn't matter what it is but then like it's so annoying after about 10 minutes I got out the car walked to the sport shop walked in and that was I felt so much better as I got in the shop than I did sitting in the car yeah like just proved to me that like that was the peak the peak of my anxiety was before I got out of the car and as soon as I made that decision to just do it whatever yeah I noticed the huge weight lifted and I was just walking around a freaking sport shop like I haven't been in for years and it was not like a major disaster yeah no like I was I was still feeling like I'm not saying that I'm freaking cured and my only problem is anticipation it's not because I still felt wobbly and weird but like made no difference yeah I still feel wobbly and weird when I'm standing doing the washing up at the sink you know so what difference to me that's a that is like a huge leap forward you know like yeah where the anticipated the anticipatory anxiety is bigger than the event itself that's that's where I'm at on a consistent basis that's a giant leap forward it's a huge leap forward so I because I think a lot of people watching would say they have both like they they're dreading what they have to do and then when they go and do it it's really difficult to and they're just panicking right it's just as bad and so what will happen over time is the event will become easier and easier the anticipation it stays lingers longer than anything yeah yeah yeah definitely that's really really good it's really really good so uh yeah forward yeah and like and you don't let it get you down like even when you have a bit of a wobble you don't let it get you down you don't you're not retreat you don't retreat anymore no I'm not seeming to no you just you just continuing to execute this strategy I've got so much shit going on at home like freaking money troubles and yeah like it's it's crazy at a minute like stress yeah but I can tell the difference it doesn't mean I'm anxious it means I'm stressed like that's the difference that is such a big deal that is such a big deal yeah you don't even know if you realize that what a big deal that is that's what we just talking about set back yeah yeah exactly that you know like stress like life anxiety and stress is becoming separated from the actual agoraphobia if you will yeah yeah so very big deal so uh Randy I am a big deal you are a big deal dude there's no question to my mind those statements you just made are really huge and for anybody watching like that's what will happen yeah yeah like because me and Ben are supposed to be going to the zoo next Monday so like I haven't been there since I was early 20s so that's gonna be crazy but I'm not I'm not nervous about it now at all but I know that I will be the day before I'll be crapping myself about it yeah but then I'm 99% sure that I'll be able to go and do it and I'm all I'm 100% sure that I'm gonna feel weird while I'm there and I'm gonna have dizzy spells and all that kind of crap I just accept that now yeah like it's just become normal and don't let it stop me from because there's gonna be times when I'm walking around the zoo that I'm gonna have a freaking smile on my face as well you know what I mean right so rather than miss out on that because I might feel dizzy for five minutes no yeah anymore because you you have like you're talking about the nuts and bolts like you have literally taught your brain that it doesn't matter if you're dizzy like yeah yeah I can just stop what I'm doing it just actually what happened yeah yeah yeah whereas I know that that dizzy thing used to be such a a showstopper like that said I'm dizzy must leave yeah yeah it would stop it would stop me even attempting through fear of that happening right and now you are no longer afraid of that happening so this you're witnessing here our friend Billy in the UK witnessing the actual nuts and bolts of what happens like those are literally for those of you who must dig deep into it there was a whole discussion in the group like these are new neural pathways being quite literally in your brain so there was a pathway that said dizzy means danger and there's a new pathway that says dizzy means I don't like this but I can still do it and sooner or later there's a pathway that will literally say biologically physiologically say dizzy who cares you don't even have a dizzy pathway anymore I thought it was the CBD that was doing it so anyway there you go I'm kidding by the way I am kidding if anybody's watching yes it's not the CBD for the record um so let's get to there was another question was the question was from you said we got another one that was Daniella uh uh Cal and just oh I didn't see that one commented on something okay on my bit you know where I said does anybody have more questions yes oh he responded that yeah I'd have to read anyway fresh Daniella I don't know if this was already answered um maybe it's too broad a question for how to desensitize it is a very broad question I mean constant tension no wonder I'm dizzy meditation yogurt they help for short time I think we just sort of answered it to in a way like you were so sensitive to the specific symptom of being dizzy or off balance and now you are much less concerned about that so I you are it's desensitized because yeah because like I think the problem that people usually have is like how do I stop feeling dizzy and I'm not doing I'm not doing that anymore you're not trying to not be yeah yeah yeah exactly I'm just like embracing the wackiness embrace the suck I was sat in on the sat in I was sat in on the sofa the other night and I was feeling like that boat thing that you was on about where you feel like so I was just sitting there and I was actually doing this like let's fucking make it worse like because it's nothing because it's exactly the same feeling right that's what I'm doing now just could you imagine that though like it you know six months ago a year ago no like when you were very yeah you just have more tension and then you start noticing it even more so Daniela the answer to your question it is a very big question and we can talk about that for hours and hours but you actually first of all you're not trying to stop feeling that way how you desensitize is you feel that way and be as non-reactive to it as possible and I know it's super scary and it's dizzy and all that but you're trying to make it go away so when you say meditation and yoga help for a short time you're probably saying I feel better for a short time but then I feel I feel these this tension again yeah yeah right so tension is a thing like when you're under constant tension which you are when you're in the thick of this problem but you just you're not trying to change the way you feel you're just trying to change the way you react to how you feel and that literally will retrain your brain to not worry about those feelings so if you've watched and watched Billy tell a story about being dizzy by the way dizzy somebody posted I don't remember who was recently and I think it was yesterday that their neurologist had said to them I guess you know they were talking about that dizzy I'm dizzy they were talking about being feeling like they were on a boat I believe yeah and their neurologist had said if you can stand there with your feet together and put your arms apart and you can actually stand there you do not tip over and hit the ground then there's nothing wrong that's anxiety dizzy and I thought that was absolutely brilliant so but here's the problem when people get dizzy or that anxiety dizzy you know if balance the last thing they will do is to stand there still and put their arms out to fight or dizzy yeah the problem is if somebody does that and they still feel dizzy they're gonna think oh shit it's not anxiety right right but but that's but it's the neurologist didn't say if you could put your hands out and stop feeling dizzy he didn't say that he or she so if you can just stand there if you can do that if you can do that task and stand there with your arms straight out and your feet on the ground and you do not literally topple over or stumble into the wall you can stand there doesn't it be perfectly still but if you do not fall down or spin and wind up on the ground or bump into the wall because you literally can't stand up then you are not dizzy like you are just feeling that anxiety symptom so that's not a thing to make dizzy go away that is a great great thing but what you're doing if you feel dizzy what most people do I know what I would feel that would be close your eyes and tuck in right you try to get there most people react to dizzy that way react to dizzy by putting your arms out and if you really wanted to get crazy you could probably put your head back but that's much more difficult for sure so that is how to desensitize that so to address the symptom of dizziness that's a cool test yeah and it adds objectivity so instead of like this feels like feels like feels like nope the only fact you need to know is I am standing upright with my arms stretched out and I am not falling over or not crashing into the wall yes so that's that's objective and you're also desensitizing yourself to being dizzy by doing that because you're inviting more dizzy in yeah yeah so daniella that's how you desensitize just let it be there and don't react so there you go what did cat say should we ask him because we're going to get into rebecca's question it's the biggest one he said you said he responded to in us if anybody has more questions he said how toxic pleasing people and being a yes man is for your anxiety and recovery how toxic pleasing people and being a yes man is for your anxiety and recovery being a yes man I mentioned that years ago do you remember when I mentioned that I was being a yes man like when somebody if my ex was saying do you want to go here there whatever I was just saying yes everything my daughter had a viking day at school do you remember that I remember talking about this viking day yes I do remember she never my daughter stopped asking me if I wanted to go to any like school events or anything like that because she knew it would always be a no but this for the for some strange reason she just decided to ask will you come to viking day and I was like yes and I went so I don't know I don't know what the answer to the question is how is being a yes man it's good and bad it is well it's good or bad and well okay so I think what the question is right the question I think if I'm reading it correctly is or if you're reading it correctly because I'm not literally reading it um how toxic is that like if you're trying to please people and be a yes man all the time is that bad for your anxiety well that's like a more of a personality thing that's goes back to that same thing but we have to separate read the comments and I don't you see well answering all kinds of questions up next how to change the oil like your Subaru yes let's talk about that yes man the and I think that's there are two different things that thing we're like life stuff and the disorder like sometimes there are people out there who are more prone to want to please people and they make people happy and be a yes man like that's just your personality type it's your propensity in life to do that you could do that and it might cause you some issues in life but it doesn't have to make you afraid to go to the supermarket so we have to separate these things like if you if you are that way and you don't like being that way because it makes you unhappy or it ruins you know or it degrades the quality of life for you in some way then by all means you can work on changing that but if you're okay because you're happy when you make people happy and it and you don't go into a tizzy if you don't make them happy I'm like if that's okay for you then that's okay for you but understand that being a people pleaser does not make one agoraphobic or does not give somebody panic disorder like these are different things so I mean I think it's fine to ask those questions and work on those things if they're important to you but I don't think you can say well my problem here is that I'm trying to please people although I will say that if you it probably makes it more difficult if you are a people pleaser or one of those or yes man yes person gender neutral no see how I call myself there yeah good I don't I don't want to get boycotted toxic masculinity you know the if you are a yes person and a people pleaser you probably feel like this is more of an insurmountable problem than other people do because you are not only feeling like I this thing is keeping you down but you're also feeling like you're ruining everyone else's shit and I think we see that like I've ruined my family's damn ruining my kids I'm ruining my husband I'm ruining my life I'm ruining this I'm like no because you want to please people and so when you can't you you judge yourself really harshly that could be an impediment like you gotta get past that yeah yeah um that's my best answer to that question like in a way yeah it's about you it's not about anybody else like don't worry about what everybody else is thinking about your anxiety disorder you have to work on you and they will come along for the ride whether they like it or not yeah yeah that's it yeah and if you and if you take the ride and you're successful they'll be happy for you people in your life that love you so there you go so that's my answer to that question yes man all right let's tackle rebecca's question and we're gonna talk about rebecca's question we're gonna talk about rebecca's video that she made I don't think she'll mind she put up a video so it was really really really good because about my my post about hiding behind trees so I'll make an admission you didn't I didn't watch all of it I watched up until she vaped and then they had to switch you off that's it I'm hanging up this call it's just a vape as she stole your vaping by the way no vaping in any videos it's billy's yeah yeah it's copyrighted I'm not sure come on um what if this isn't the way we embrace this as the method here and yet many psychologists and therapists haven't even heard of claire weeks and some say CBT does not work for home area to reasons okay what if they are right and you were wrong just incidentally I'm not saying that just a question um what if this isn't the way I spoke I spoke to my doctors and stuff about claire weeks and they'd never never heard of I'm gonna say that the vast majority of therapists have never heard of claire weeks yeah let's just put it out there as much as we as much as I admire her work and many people in the group do and it's helpful to them you're not going to encounter a whole lot of medical professionals our mental health professionals that know who she is that's okay well number one she doesn't spend a shit ton of money on marketing and that like asking if they've heard of barry mcdonough or charles pissing linden right bet you bet your life they've heard especially in the uk they've probably heard of charles linden where he's huge I get it so I mean understand why why have they not heard of claire weeks that is not an invalidation of what she says so there's two things going on here when it comes to dr weeks like number one she was never there's never a marketing machine behind her there's still not so the organization clear weeks publications is run by two people like her niece and grand niece like in Australia on their own like doing what they can do they don't have a marketing team and a publishing company and you know SEO experts and podcasts they don't have that so it stands to reason and she did her work way before an error where that ever happens which is fine but the other thing to remember is number one that doesn't invalidate what she said number two none of what she says she invented like she just took those she's essentially talking about graded exposure graduated in vivo exposure she is using all the concepts that come along with cognitive behavioral therapy and you'll find names like beck and ellis and if you're trained in psychology you've studied that you'll know these names like these are the fathers of CBT behavioral therapies and their variants like she just applied those concepts to this particular problem of panic disorder and agoraphobia so in a time when there wasn't a lot of means to communicate this to the general public so you know this was stuff that was studied in universities in labs and papers would be written about them and only other psychologists and behavioral scientists would read the papers at conferences there was no internet there was no there was barely TV and radio in some cases yeah yeah and so she didn't invent this so the claire weeks method is not something that she came up with out of the blue she essentially applied those the tenets of cognitive behavioral therapy and and package them in a really great way i think for another another thing to think about is instead of asking all these doctors and professionals if they've heard of claire weeks don't ask them that ask them if they've heard about like acceptance and stuff like that because right like the author may not be well known but the method is the method is because everybody else is rehashing the same stuff it's all the same stuff and so she may have been one of the early people in the late 50s in the 1960s to package this information for for laypeople for like regular people to use as almost self-help which is great um and she said it really clearly and in a good voice but just because the therapist hasn't heard of claire weeks does not disqualify and i know robin like if robin is watching this i know that's been a thing for her like my claire my therapist never heard of claire weeks so she must not make a difference no most therapists i've never will tell you they won't they've never heard of her it's okay it does not invalidate the method and it doesn't mean that that's a bad therapist so rebecca goes on to say that some say that cbt does not work for a whole myriad of reasons and then adam had actually mentioned in his question is this method of acceptance based on evidence so this is the same question now this is the cbt question i can answer it in the u.s i think you could probably answer it better in the uk sadly we don't have experience in other countries although i will tell you that in australia they seem to be very keen on this and in norway where england lives they seem to be very keen on this so they're a little bit ahead of the game yeah in the united states if you are going to practice a be a a therapist you have to have a doctorate a phd you can either be a phd in psychology you can be a psychiatrist which makes you a medical doctor who went through medical school or you can have a master's degree in social work and be a clinical social worker which is a means there's levels of supervision above you and blah blah blah some of the curriculum is based on behavioral psychology some of it is based on Freudian and analytical stuff or things like harle young's personality archetypes so you're learning a bunch of different things and so in the end if you go on to the phd level and you could be doctor something a clinical psychologist in the u.s you may have chosen maybe you believe that youngy and archetypes are the are the answer to all problems maybe you believe that Freudians yeah well i'm just you know these are things these are this is the answer to this question maybe you believe that Freudian you know psychodynamics are the answer to all problems you haven't been hugged as much as much as a child you were neglected as a child not reinforced so therefore you have this disorder in later life or maybe you are behavioral therapist not so there's so many different variants of this it's like a doctor you might be a neurologist a urologist a cardiologist there are specialties and so somebody a therapist who is a Freudian analyst and believes in psychodynamic methods of treatment yeah we'll tell you that anxiety comes from that we're going to dig down for two years until we find the root cause of this trauma that you experienced in childhood and that's how we will fix you they will tell you that cbt is not the thing that's how you do it and i think it just depends on what the persons you just have to find a therapist who says oh yeah i'm a behavioral therapist now to answer and that's why that's why many doctors have never heard of this they just don't they didn't travel in that circle that's all yeah so here in the us we have an entire we have professional organizations full of cognitive behavioral therapists and that's what they do you just have to find that person so if your car needs a new transmission you need to find a transmission shop right if your sink is broken you need to find a plumber you don't just call somebody to sink you need somebody who is right you need somebody who looks at your sink and says this is a plumbing problem i am a plumber i will fix this so it's same thing just because there are doctors and therapists that don't know about it doesn't doesn't mean it's an invalid thing it is a valid thing so adam and i'm just rambling well i know while you're sitting there which is i'm sorry jump in at any time chewing gum that's fine um yeah that's all good i'm just i have a minute so to answer adam's question is this based on evidence yes it's based on absolutely decades and mountains and mountains of clinical evidence in the behavioral sciences focused on cognitive behavioral therapy that this is the very best intervention we have including medication so when you look at outcomes over time people who are involved with meds alone combination of meds and CBT and just CBT and its variants alone cognitive behavioral interventions are as effective short-term more effective long-term than medication it is there is not even a question and most well-versed therapists who are analysts psychodynamic you know or personality type people they if they are well versed and stay abreast of what's going on in their field they will even have to tell you that most of them and remember that they are making a living so they do not make more money if they tell you that they are not the therapist for you but what i have found over time is that analysts and other therapists will say oh yeah i can help you even when they know that behavioral interventions are the most effective way whereas behavioral therapists are more likely to to tell you yeah i you know i know you're having problems with your mom over what happened when you were 11 i'm not a good choice for you like i don't understand that like behavioral therapists will admit that they're not the one or will be honest about it but many other therapists will will not say that and sometimes let's have some of your money first then we'll talk about i i think we have to acknowledge that to a certain extent sometimes it's a money thing you know like they don't make money by now and they and but in their hearts i'm not saying that they're just money grabbing scammers they believe that they can help you with this and and i i find it in many instances absolutely reprehensible that i personally know people who have been with the same therapist for years and years and years still cannot go out the door themselves how that person can make you sit in their office for 40 minutes every week and take your money or your insurance company's money whatever it is yeah and talk about whatever it is you talk about in that session and you are no better off in your agoraphobia than you were a year ago is beyond me that is to me unethical and really is a violation of almost their professional code of conduct like at some point that person has to stop and say okay maybe you do have some issues that we need that i can help you with but obviously i'm not helping you with this problem so we need to get somebody else involved yeah but many people will not do that and i don't understand that so yes there's mountains and mountains and mountains of clinical evidence here that says the behavioral approach is the most effective approach in dealing with an anxiety disorder and the disorder is defined by that root cause of the anxiety is decoupled and now your anxiety is caused by your anxiety so if you don't want to get in the car because you're afraid of having a panic attack in the car you have an anxiety disorder if if crowds just make you anxious but you still go in them you do not have an anxiety disorder you just don't like crowds so i i could talk about this all day long because this is my this is my jam and i think it's so important when people say like well maybe this is the wrong way i call call me pedantic if you want this is the right i i'll accept it this is the best way this is the best way but again we're talking about these disorders like panic disorder and agoraphobia we're not talking about low self esteem issues or trust issues like those are other issues that people yeah often have in conjunction with these disorders those are different that's true um which i when i did my video with monique about past trauma trauma is different that's true but but you know in the end the disorder where you learn to be afraid of how you feel there's there's no better approach there isn't and claire weeks just i think said it very well it was very approachable in the way she said it yeah the other thing that i would mention you know in terms of adam's question about like is this you know doctors are only what did he say um i almost recommend antidepressant tablet instantaneously which is true yeah too like if you see your general practitioner here in the united states and tell him you're having panic attacks most likely that doctor is going to want to get out his prescription pad and just say here's a benzo for when you panic and here's an antidepressant it'll take two weeks to work and you won't panic it you know what do you think that is it's the fastest way yeah it's the fastest way maybe it's the cheapest way i don't i don't know and i think medicine is a business and it's a even if you have socialized medicine like you guys have it's still a business like the british government is paying for that and must manage isn't it one of the biggest industry in the world and it pharmaceuticals pharmaceuticals yes and here's the thing so even and we don't have to do a health care debate because i please don't start a health care debate in the thread it's just about to but like so here's two different things we have for profit medicine here in the us which i think many people find reprehensible and we could talk about that if we wanted to one day and you have socialized medicine or in canada or in i think australia socialized medicine where everybody just gets health care because we don't leave people without health care and that's great but the pharmaceutical companies are not socialized right pay for medications in any country whether they're in the us where it's profit is like religion here or they're operating in the uk with a socialized medicine system even though the government of the of great britain is is the british government is paying for your health care they somebody has to pay glaxosmith client for those pills and so in the end i think the pharmaceutical company exists outside the bounds of whether it's for profit or they are for profit no matter what country they're in and if you really want to know in the uk they charge less for that tablet than they do in the us because in the us they can the market lets them charge more so the pill costs more in the us than it does in the uk or in canada or in australia because they can hear and in the end i think if you are a doctor you that's what you know to do you write you write a prescription and you give somebody a pill that you are told will fix them and they have so many people i was going to say customers doctors have so many customers come in they have so many people go through the door like they've got to get these people out right they can't sit and explain the ins and outs of cbt you know it was that's exactly right and then there's so many like the numbers are staggering the amount of people that are being referred like the waiting lists are already crazy off the charts for cbt like yeah yeah yeah and i think what you're running into there is the same problem we have here in a way like there's a certain there's a limited number of therapists that specialize but i think in your system where it doesn't matter everybody gets access to healthcare which is great it's not bad it's a good thing i hear so many stories of people in the uk that go through cbt that was not really cbt like you could tell you know i was talking about holly talking holly about this the other day they could almost tell this person i think wants to help they've chosen to be in that profession like they're not making it up but like their cbt training was like you know they did a week retreat where they they had to go through the cbt module to be approved by the nhs and now they're doing cbt which is not a thing it's fucking flying he's gonna get it did you get him yes nice save that man that's free protein right there i do i feel like i do that every it seems that way yeah you there's a fly buzzing you every single time man i've got a fly infestation i'm gonna have to start taking the trash out and have to sweep the maggots to the side yeah just yeah just push them away it's all good so i think it's a big topic i could just rant on it which i have now um but i think that's why what if this is the wrong way it's the right way and every time we see somebody you know come in the group in january crippled and convinced that they can't do it and it's too scary they'll never be it and in june they're out and living life and like you post nothing but success stories and helping people it's the way trust me it's it's fucking way um it's the first time you swore today no i've been really good i'm trying to like censor myself a little bit yeah yeah so so there you go and i think um that you know that's pretty much the questions i see somebody else answered ask something let me look yeah joey c jane joey c claustrophobia affects me a lot i always need to sit on an n c well it can be really difficult claustrophobia is its own phobia for sure and i'm sure that there are people who have panicked disorder agoraphobia and claustrophobia at the same time right i'm not an expert in claustrophobia but my guess is that you would treat it the same way you do any simple phobia yeah yeah right so exposure exposure right exposure so i think somebody who's claustrophobic like would work up graduated expo there's a little bit just like your brain learns that oh i can be in this place and be safe it's okay yeah yeah it's probably the same thing let's how long you've been going for i don't even know you have the recording so i'm not sure hour and 15 okay that's a long time fine man i guess we should probably wrap it up i was going to talk a little bit about rebecca's video and the tree post but i don't know maybe we should do our own maybe we should do another one on that one do it should keep going yeah i was going to mention blue monday as well because that was last week blue monday oh i'm talking about blue monday i just wanted i wondered what you thought like the third january and the third monday in january sorry is or is apparently blue monday the most depressing day of the year yeah and we have some kind of crazy stats that come up every year too like it's the number one day for like heart attacks in the u.s right yeah like i don't even know like nobody can ever cite like where does that source come from you know just apparently it was started by some holiday company the term blue monday years ago yeah hallmark or something they were trying no no like a travel oh oh i get a get away right because that's when you need to book your holiday because that's here's in the winter yeah that's your the southern hemisphere and you're roasting right now but i get it blue monday it's the most the third monday of january is that what it is i didn't i didn't see the specifics is the most depressing day of the year that's a lot of monday i think a lot of people would say that the monday after new years or whatever that first day back is from holiday the holiday break is the most depressing day of the year interest kind of used to be for me blue monday i i did a video once called blue monday bullshit so that's my take there you go that's all you need to know about it blue monday bullshit yeah i think a lot of people i thought you know i did i kind of skim that a little bit i saw the blue monday discussion yeah it's just everywhere i thought people were talking about having the monday blues i used the sunday blues i used to get that i used to get that worst way sunday afternoon i was ready to like just kill myself not i'm joking joke with that but like my sunday afternoon because it was that like oh god tomorrow and now even when i was a kid i got to go back to school tomorrow even when i was a kid and then i got to go back to work tomorrow like sunday i used to get that in the worst way so i thought that that's probably late yeah but it kind of like so does that mean that from tuesday onwards we're all going to feel better like that's the problem that it all right like i have no idea yeah i think the answer to that is don't let anybody tell you how you're going to feel like you determine that for the most part thank you or at least how you're going to react to that so it's not a bad thing should we want to talk about the tree for you rebecca posted buddy thing was an excellent video and i commend her on that thank you very much rebecca for sharing that i think this is a huge thing and it was an accident somebody posted while i was traveling and i took a few minutes to respond and i wrote my little post about hiding behind trees go look i guess if you haven't looked and essentially it's the question that comes up all all the time like okay i've decided to accept my anxiety surrender to and i'm doing my exposures why do i feel worse and you went through this you went through this it weren't long ago was it maybe a month ago we were talking about it was around it was around christmas time i think yeah for sure yeah like why do i feel worse and the answer to that is you are now you are abandoning the nuts and bolts we talked about before safety you are now abandoning avoidance and safety behaviors and so the analogy that i wrote about my little post was every time the wind blows you duck behind a tree to get out of the wind and then when you decide that you no longer duck behind that tree you will then feel the full force of the wind the tree has been hiding you've been hiding from the wind right so when you step out from behind the tree suddenly the wind which was the same wind that it's always been will feel much much much worse because you have abandoned your safety the tree and rebecca was so honest and genuine about how that what i wrote impacted her not because i wrote something amazing but it made her look and say like holy mackerel like i've been you know hiding behind trees for years and i think many of us who are in these situations could probably relate to that like how much time have you spent hiding behind trees that you don't even know you're hiding behind and i think people who live with these disorders especially people who are agoraphobic um engineer a life that they can manage to live and there's always a plant trees all along the way that they can do and and yes when you stop hiding behind trees the wind will smack you in the face harder than it usually does and it is that is not a mystery as to why you suddenly feel worse because when you truly identify the trees that you've been hiding behind i would talk on metaphorically here and stop hiding behind them you are now making real progress and it will feel like shit i couldn't vouch for that it felt bad didn't it like yeah yeah it was asking me a few times like yeah yeah even at home and i feel badly at home what's going on here and how did that in the end you know how did it resolve i mean do you feel like it's just time i guess primarily resolved for you do you think are you still like sitting at home feeling like crap not as often right i'm still getting like it's still the same sort of force like the wind hasn't died down i don't really pay as much attention to it that's probably the difference yeah yeah okay so i think it's so so so important to understand i'm not saying i've got bad wind by the heif that's what people you know it's funny because the wind hasn't died down it's still i think you guys use wind slightly different than we do and i had to glean that from listening to rebecca talk about like now i'm not talking about that kind of wind i'm like oh i get it i understand what she's saying yeah but um the breeze i don't know guys sorry i didn't mean to make a british like gastrointestinal joke but uh i i think it's a thing like another one it's the wind that's what it is someone texted me to tell me about it it's windy out here probably so i don't know i i think it was important to throw this in here i'll probably make my own video rambling about it to be honest with you but for anybody watching now like when you feel like why have i accepted this yet i feel worse two things are going on number one you think that when you accept and surrender it'll all go away quicker than it really does and it won't it's a long process and number two like if you really are diligent about this and you really look at all of those safety behaviors and avoidance techniques that you have developed in your life you will probably be surprised at how many there really are i think the analogy is perfect like i was sitting here thinking about it when you were just saying it and that's exactly what it is like when there's no tree right you're feeling it you feel the wind that has always been blowing yeah yeah and it is you're not hiding from me you're not hiding from it you step out into the wind and you will feel that full force and what will happen when you don't hide behind the tree your face will start to get cold your skin might get a little dry you know yeah you had to walk into the wind all day long it would be physically taxing it would wear you out a little bit so all of the effects of wind negative though they may be but not dangerous you will now have to feel and i think when you experience this like i've changed i when you have truly put it to you this way when you've truly changed what you have what you're doing and you're going into the field and you're not avoiding anymore and you're going toward it and you're saying just kill me bring it on and you start to really start to move forward it is probably likely that you will start to feel worse at first consider that an indicator that you are doing it right yeah yeah not because this is a process that's built on suffering like no it's just not no pain no gain there's nothing on that bullshit it means that you are you're stepping out from behind all those trees that you used to hide behind all the time i think that's probably the the single thing that makes people stop trying that's what knocks people's confidence motivation right right that that is the that's the key to it is understanding that yeah step out you step out into the freaking headwind it gets rough and you must get rough feel it right yeah there's no other way around it again and again and again that's the only way that your brain will learn that this wind is not killing it it's okay but it's about persisting through them those initial stages that's the key moment you're probably right yeah yeah when you realize oh you perhaps don't realize that this is the right way because i feel worse right that that is the right way and it's that key is it makes you yes and it makes you realize and i think if you have not seen first of all again i said if you're not in our discussion group you should join it and if you have not watched rebecca's video just search for rebecca mansell and look at the video she posted it's it really i know i've said it a couple times like it's really so good because you need to stop and look in the mirror and say i will not thank you very much i'm sorry i forgot i was on freaking filming my apologies that's quite all right um i think you really need to at some point look in the mirror and say like rebecca really took as she took that moment of reflection and say oh man i'm doing this i'm really doing this and that's not accusatory i'm not saying like you feel this way because you did it just say this is the way these disorder i'm wrong now every that all hell is breaking loose the phones ringing flies we'll let it ring down that's fine should answer it hello don't need to be my dad is that an actual landline yeah yeah but the only person with the number is my dad that's always the way i might like get rid of that i'm i can't call me anymore yeah it's not an emergency so anyway i just wanted to make that point you will feel badly when you do these things but that's the point like recognize that you have engineered your life so that you do not feel badly so when you when you leave all those things behind and you intentionally fail badly you will feel badly but you must do that that is how you learn that feeling badly is not dangerous and you don't have to be afraid to feel that way so there you go i'm out sweet my truck beautiful so there you go well you know an hour and a half there's a long time yeah we're almost there we're a minute a couple of minutes off yeah that's a long one it's a long one i think we did that last time yeah yeah that's cool what else you got anything else no i'm trying to think it's all it's all fine in the minute yeah you're you're moving and grooving it looks like yeah i'm just i feel the same but i'm not bothered that's it you'd mentioned a plan something that you were thinking about doing with ben whenever i do yeah yeah we're going that other thing plan yeah we've spoke about it because we've got some big plans but i don't know if you wanted to say it or not you could you don't have to say it yeah i'll see it like we're talking about maybe flying from Birmingham to Edinburgh which is like the middle of England to Scotland like how long does that take maybe an hour and change yourself you have no idea no idea yeah but that would be that would be awesome because it was because when you were on the flight weren't it that's when yeah i'm dreading dreading that first freaking flight yeah but could you even imagine that you're in a place where you're considering doing that now nope i could i was thinking about this the other day like in that freaking sport shop like go back however many years you want that's not something that i would do yeah like going to the pub for lunch with the freaking guy that i've only met once like ben you know what i mean it's just weird progress good you don't you don't really notice you don't notice how much progress you're making that's the thing with me like i'll i'll just go i went and put fuel in the car the other day and didn't even think about what i was doing it was just like this isn't a challenge yeah wait a minute two months ago i'd have been sitting at home thinking about this for hours you just did it uh see this is the way say again this is the way yeah that would be a big deal but i i think the reason why i kind of prodded you to see if you want to bring it up is that's another good indicator like what are the what are the things you're thinking of doing next like you're you're actually considering the idea of going getting on a flight and flying to scotland i mean that's freaking amazing i want to go and watch a footy match yeah you guys yeah that's gotta happen yeah whatever watch birmingham oh when they go and play in edinburgh that would be awesome no no just go and watch birmingham at birmingham like oh okay and i'll do that okay i thought you like it might be like nearly 30 000 people there like that's a bit of a big deal just a bit it is but but you build but you know how to build that you don't just do it like you do build that yeah yeah well because they they have like reserve games yeah like under 23s or something so i'll probably go and watch one of them first they'll have to be like a couple of thousand people maybe yeah sure sure that'll be my first step they're just getting into crowds more into the city center when it's more crowded blah blah blah but you know how you know what to do well the because the thing is like come june when tina is supposed to be coming over in fact i'll say that on the video then she's cut to oh no now you're committed tina yep get your ass over here thrown down the gauntlet yeah so early june she's supposed to be coming to the uk but i've got to go meet her at heathrow airport which is like one of the busiest in the world it is apparently yeah and that's in london so i've got to drive there on my own and like she obviously she's got to fly freaking 10 hours across the water it's i'm worse than her it's not that it's about a six hour flight oh but she's in florida so yeah yeah so that's what i'm building up to like that's my no evasion that's yeah i'm using i'm just pushing on just doing it and the way you'll do that is before she ever arrives you'll you'll go to london a few times i'm sure i know yeah like that won't be your first trip to london you're you know like you know it's it's up now so that's cool exactly and then the big goal is like i want to come visit you man oh that would be so good as if we talked about that well at some point either i'm gonna end up there or you will end up here i'm gonna come see you that's true you yeah you get your ass to the u.s you you know what even if it's to florida which you know i would i would totally get that you would choose to go to her before me i would choose her over me too um sorry tina i just had to make a stupid joke i would totally get that but i would uh yeah you come to the u.s i'll go wherever you are and we'll we'll do that that would be cool but at some point i do want to i i really do want to come to the uk it's just yeah my many friends there now that i do want to meet and and just a lovely place so i'm gonna go to scotland i'm all about scotland i'll take you to scotland nice we'll go you me and ben as long as we can squeeze it into my four minutes of activity you may have to ask the google to say you have google on there hey okay how many days will it take if i only move for four minutes oh i just hook up my phone no no no don't we don't want to know really like that shut up four minutes so good all right well i'll let you get rolling because you have four minutes of work to do now yeah yeah train you five minutes today if you can yeah yeah all right guys if you if you have hung in this long more power to you hit subscribe if you're on youtube yes i still haven't i still haven't put any on my channel but i keep getting asked when i'm me and you doing another video so i might oh you should probably upload a couple i like people are stealing my content i said oh that's right that blows me away my palpitations video somebody has stole my video they've re re uploaded on their own channel and just slowed the audio down so it sounds like i've had a stroke basically it's just me talking for seven minutes slower lower it's nice when we hang up i'm gonna look now in my my youtube interface what is it the copyright tab i'd say there's a copyright and you can see if anybody's copying my stuff there's a guy that called that anxiety guy who's got loads of oh that's what you were saying because all we have hundreds of videos that we both post i know which is so funny i'm gonna start hitting i'm gonna start sending you copyright infringement notices a video that you're in and you get so stupid they'll they'll give you the work to checking off get it it's kind of ridiculous but yeah that's cool so i'm gonna look at that too i did find once i did once by the way that i found one of my there's a video that i made while i was driving i found it on some other website so i turned off external linking just because i was like that was yours that was yours like screw you man at least credit at least credit the provider that's the thing yeah i get it all right peeps thanks for hanging in there for this long and i guess we'll see you on the next one we certainly will good luck have a wonderful evening yes