 Welcome to the Australian National University's Malaysia Update for 2020. I'm Ross Tapsul, Director of the ANU Malaysia Institute. This biennial update conference is hosted by the ANU Malaysia Institute, which is based in Canberra. Our institute was established in 2016 to develop research and collaboration on Malaysian politics and society, but it builds on a long history of Malaysian scholarship at the ANU. More information about our institute can be found at Malaysianinstitute.anu.edu.au. This year we're doing things a little differently, running the update virtually, and working with Malaysia Kenny on the theme of alternative visions for Malaysia. Although this conference is held virtually, the ANU is built on Indigenous Australian land of the Ngunnawal and Nambri peoples, and we acknowledge and pay respects to their elders past and present. Today it is my pleasure to host the political update, which involves a 30-minute keynote address from three speakers, followed by a 60-minute discussion and Q&A session involving you all here online with us today. Youth-led political reform movements are growing worldwide, and in Southeast Asia during the pandemic, youth or student movements are challenging the status quo and pressing for change. Malaysia is no exception, having recently lowered the voting age from 21 to 18. Today's political update is from three young Malaysian speakers who will talk about politics from their experiences and perspectives and what they think needs to change and how youth might go about implementing that change. Our first speaker is Kira Yusreil from Undi 18 and Parliament Digital. Over to you, Kira. Thank you so much, Ross, for the introduction and for having me this year in the ANU-Malaysian update. Once again, my name is Kira Yusreil. I am the co-founder of Undi 18 as well as the education director. Undi 18 started as a grassroots movement in 2016 to promote a youth-centric agenda. How we do that is that we campaigned for lowering the voting age here in Malaysia from 21 to 18, and in July 2019, we actually succeeded with the help of YB-Cyclic Center Rahman. But however, since then, we've expanded the work that we do to focus on youth education, civic engagement as well as running multiple other campaigns to push for other reforms here in Malaysia. The Undi 18 bill has enfranchised many young Malaysians, specifically 7.8 million Malaysians to vote in the next elections. 3.9 million Malaysians who were 21 years old and below would have been ineligible to vote in the next election, but now are able to, and another 3.9 million Malaysians who were not registered for elections before this would now be able to vote without registering themselves thanks to the automatic voter registration bill that also passed together with Undi 18. So, riding on the Undi 18 momentum, we scaled and expand our outreach work, and we launched 7 new campaigns ranging from issues of gerrymandering and equal votes, issues of gender representation in parliament, environmental issues, senate reform, as well as regional campaigns such as Undi Sabah, Undi Sarawak, as well as a policy-related campaign called Tanaga Belie to focus on energy policies here in Malaysia. Now, besides running Undi 18, this year, we also organised Parliament Digital. It is the world's first youth-led initiative to organise a virtual parliamentary sitting to propose recommendations to address the economic and health crisis in Malaysia. Parliament Digital came about when a few friends came together and we discussed about how the Malaysian government used COVID-19 as an excuse to not have a parliamentary sitting. We felt that this was a bit ridiculous because it shouldn't be impossible to gather 222 representatives in a virtual call, either through Zoom or Microsoft Teams or even Google Meets, to have discussions and debates, especially when you've seen other countries such as the United Kingdom, Maldives, Sri Lanka, to move to a virtual parliamentary sitting or a hybrid parliamentary sitting. So we decided, why not we show them that it's possible. We decided to organise an event called Parliament Digital or a Digital Parliament, and we opened applications after just two weeks of planning. Within two weeks of opening applications, we received almost 7,000 applications to become a representative, nominations of their friends to become representatives, as well as applications to become observers. This was very unprecedented considering that we were just a bunch of young advocates. We did not have any machinery, we did not have many support from... We didn't receive any sort of support from the government to push forward this campaign and this initiative. But we managed to raise up such a huge... We managed to gather such huge attention that during the live stream of the Parliament Digital event on both days the 4th and 5th of July, we received almost half a million views combined. So we could clearly see that young people were craving for a platform to speak up about issues. Young people were thirsty and we were looking for avenues to share our views, to share our woes, especially considering the pandemic where so many young Malaysians were affected very critically by it. We had young Malaysians going to unemployment. We had students from school children to university students move from physical classrooms to online with no preparation and no heads up whatsoever. We see how university students were being asked to leave their campuses and come back the campuses and then leave their campuses again because the government couldn't decide on the right procedures. And then we could also see how government themselves were struggling with coming up with procedures because these are such unprecedented times. I think Parliament Digital was extremely unique because it brought forward 222 unique independent voices to the forefront. We did not have participants who were representing the political parties during the debates. We did not have participants who were representing anyone else's interests except their own. We had participants as young as 15 and 16 year olds running surveys, interviewing teachers, interviewing their members of Parliament themselves to ask about what are issues I should bring forth during this debate. This whole experience beyond just an initiative to showcase what young people can achieve and how governments can support young people. But it also showed that it also was an educational opportunity to engage young Malaysians to show them what democracy is all about. It really portrayed or showcased a platform or an effort for a diverse parliament because we had 30% women participation in the lineups. We could showcase even through the speakers of the House themselves, one of them will be presenting later. We had Wei Chiat and Aiman, both a young Malay woman as well as a young Chinese man to lead the debates and the discussions over the two days. I personally thought it was really invigorating and really refreshing to just see the excitement of not just the participants but also from the general public as well as Parliamentarians themselves. We had audiences from Parliamentarians. We could see that the MP themselves were inviting the parliament digital participants to come forth to share their views and to get their input and hopefully this sort of engagement will continue after just parliament digital. Now, looking at political activism in Malaysia, what does it mean? Recently, Wabi Said Sadik, the MP of Muar and the previous youth Sports Minister of Malaysia announced that he was launching a new political party together with 13 other young Malaysians. These like these sponsors or co-founders of Muda, the Malaysian-United Democratic Alliance made up of lawyers, activists, teachers, scientists, doctors, philosophers and it looks very impressive as an initial lineup. And I think even on social media, they've gotten quite a huge attention just by launching one campaign or launching a hashtag. You can see that people were reacting to it so quickly and so, you know, positively and negatively. But what does it mean for young Malaysians actually? If we look at past examples, when we see how civil society leaders join politics it not necessarily mean that it is the best solution for reforms. One example is for example, Wabi Mariachin who used to lead the amazing movement of Bersi. I think everyone worldwide can recognize how much she has sacrificed for institutional reforms here in Malaysia. She ran as an independent in Petaling Jaya, a constituent that is known for its progressive voters and of course it's an urban area and eventually she also joined the party PTR. And you can see that in our system because she was a backbencher of parliamentarian it's very challenging to push forward the reforms and ideas that she initially championed as a civil society leader. Not only that, but many other civil society champions moved from their work in the NGO to the government even if they're not MPs, they work as political officers, press officers, researchers, advisors and what you can see is that it left a vacuum within civil society where it was very difficult to keep the government in check. So I think as a, I will consider myself, you know, a newer batch of advocates here in Malaysia honestly, right? It makes people like me very cynical towards political parties' intentions. And I think this sentiment is shed across many other young Malaysians. And you don't even have to just look at Muda, right? What exactly can political parties offer us when it comes to reforms, when it comes to tackling issues of unemployment, come tackling issues of education, when you see many of the struggles that end up being publicised about political parties are always power struggles and internal drama. So I think young people also are not galvanised enough in Malaysia yet to participate actively in politics. We still have laws such as AUKU which has not been abolished entirely even though that was a promise by the Pakatan Harapan government. Young Malaysians are still fearful of speaking up. The school students still are not sure of what are their options when it comes to political participation. Beyond that, Malaysia also practices the first pass-the-post electoral system and Muda would like it or not will have to eventually align with a political coalition whether it's one that has parties like UMNO or PAS in it or whether it's one that already has many parties that stand on progressive values such as PQR and DAP. And after today, they have not announced any serious political or electoral strategy. So I think this also puts forth a question to many young Malaysians and it would lead many of us to still be wary and be concerned on what actually Muda is standing for and it could probably explain why there are still hesitance from young Malaysians to participate in a new political party even though it seems very sexy and their biggest selling point so far is that they have the youth interest at heart. But I think the question that we need to ask them is that is that really enough? Is age alone enough to win elections? So that being said, this is where I end my presentation and I'm very excited to also hear from my colleagues, Saudara Lim Weijet as well as Mahira from Unisabah after this. Hi, my name is Weijet. I am a lawyer with an interest in human rights and public interest law. I've also been involved in human rights-centered civil society organizations for the past three to four years. I'm a co-founder of Muda, the Malaysian United Democratic Alliance. It is no coincidence that the acronym Muda also means youth in the Malay language. The idea of how Muda as a political party started was really predicated from Saeed Saeed Abdul Rahman who was the former minister of youth and sports in a key politician from the previous Pakatan Harapan politician. And the backdrop to the formation of Muda is a bleak one. It originated from the collapse of the Pakatan Harapan government after a mere 22 months in power. Pakatan Harapan's entry into power is significant because it displaced Barsar National which ruled Malaysia for the past 60 years since independence. And there were many theories as to why Pakatan Harapan collapsed. One of the core reasons that we can't deny is the fact that there were clashes between top leaders of Pakatan Harapan on the personal level, stemming from decades of mistrust and unclear transition process. And I think that that allowed the opposition to exploit and that led to the collapse. I think that coupled with the political hopping that is going on led to a lot of disillusionment particularly among the youths in Malaysia and the youths do form a core support base of Pakatan Harapan and the fact that youths went out with droves in 2018 to vote for a democratically elected government of their choice to only see it fall apart so easily. I mean it really drives home and motivates us to believe that there is a need to create a political party. There is a need to create a party that prioritizes the people's welfare and the survival of a democratically elected government above personal differences stemming from decades of disputes. So that is how the idea was conceptualized. Then Sajj Sadiq did try to engage as many people as possible and he accumulated a group of technocrats, entrepreneurs, social activists community organizers from all across Malaysia to try to get their input as to whether a youth-centric political party is viable and more importantly if it is necessary in a political climate today. I think that in the initial stages there may be heated debate as to whether Muda should be a movement or a political party. I think in the end we decided that you really need a political party as a vehicle for change, to have that voice being heard and to have leverage on how change can be made. And I think that you need to have skin in the game at the end of the day. And so the idea was conceptualized and it was formed and I do think that this party as Sajj Sadiq has emphasized many times is not about himself, is not a political party that is personality based but is driven from the ground up. So we have engaged youths throughout Malaysia to get their views on what this party should stand for, what policies this party should advocate for and how different does this political party need to be in the Malaysian political climate. I think that in general was how Muda was formed and why am I interested to, why did I decide to join Muda as a political party? It was not an easy choice. I think for many people, for many politicians in Malaysia joining a political party will have consequences on your professional, your personal and your family life. But what made me make that leap of faith is the fact that when I was assembled in this meeting with these 30 plus individuals it was really inspiring and it electrified me. I mean it sounds cheesy but the fact that these people are willing to risk their careers and to attempt to make a change in Malaysia. I mean change is not inevitable but to even make that attempt knowing that we may fail really inspired me and really made me decide to go all in and I think that I did not wanted to regret 20 to 30 years later in life as to why I didn't join the political this moment in history. So that was just why I joined Muda and we may not succeed in the end but if you look at the trajectory of the youth movements not only Malaysia but all over the world we will damn well put on a good fight that I can promise. Why is there a need for a youth centric political party? I think that there are two key reasons. Number one, if you look at the problem of Malaysian politics it really is the cancer of old politics and when I use the term old politics I mean the fact the culture of warlords in Malaysia political warlords in Malaysia whereby politicians for particular constituency get elected to become an MP for many terms without giving the youth an opportunity to rise up the culture of buying loyalty through money through gratification the culture of corrected assassination particularly the culture of old politicians acting childishly in parliament where you engage with jokes, aegis and sexist teasing instead of engaging with substantive policy debates for the betterment of Malaysia I think that is the old political culture that we really need to get rid of and I think that it is time for a youth centric political party to break into the scene to create that ripple effect I don't think with the greatest respect existing political parties have the momentum to do that the second reason is the issue of representation and whilst representation is important I think that Muda as a political party wants to go beyond that we want to disrupt how politics in Malaysia works vis-a-vis youth participation because if you look at existing political parties the unfortunate fact is that youths are often pigeonholed into youth wings the same way women in these political parties are straight jacketed into women wings and there appears to be a glass ceiling I mean these youths rarely get the chance to rise up and they are probably only fielded as candidates once they reach their mid 40s, their 50s so I do think, I do sincerely believe that youths need to have a say and if you look at the Malaysian parliament only two MPs are below 30 and most MPs are above 50, 60, 70 years old I do think that we need fresh voices in parliament because in general I do think youths bring a more idealistic progressive world view when it comes to policies, education, climate change the economy, I think that kind of fresh reinvigorating views need to be injected in Malaysian politics and I think that Muda as a political party wants to bring that change what are the challenges of Muda as a political party I think two main challenges the first, and this is not unique to Muda is the first pass the post system in Malaysia and if you look at historically wise third force political parties have not been very successful whenever there are three cornered fights the third force often loses to the point where they lose even their deposits in their political contests so if you look at the Socialist Party of Malaysia for example, they had an incumbent MP Dr Michael Jayakumar who was very popular with his constituency but yet he lost his deposit in the last general election so that is a very pressing concern that we will need to address coupled with the fact that a general election is probably going to be held or must be held in the next two and a half, three years we do not have the luxury of time so I think Muda cannot discount the fact that it may have to enter into some kind of political coalition with other parties or if that does not materialise we have to be very strategic in where we will want to field candidates in elections I think the second key challenge of Muda is to dispel this notion that Muda is naive too idealistic or too inexperienced in policy making or to play an important role in politics I think the general perception among some in Malaysia is that youths are not ready yet and I think that we do need to recruit the requisite number of technocrats and professionals and people who have really made it in their careers in their own right to join our party to bolster the party to ensure that there is always you know, rejuvenating solid proposals economically, health care wise, education wise when we do enter parliament one day and to prove that we are not only a fresh face but we are more than that we want to bring a new brand of politics but also policy making I think that is the challenges that Muda would need to address in the near future Thank you Thanks Rejit Hey guys, my name is Mahira I'm a lawyer as well as the program coordinator for Nisaba and I generally got involved in activism just by caring about an issue first care about a lot of things family change, feminism, etc for me specifically when I came back to Saba after I finished my studies was the statelessness issue then it branched out to parliamentary reforms and political activism because I grew to realize that people like Achey Borus need to be politically engaged and involved to change the things we wish to see so that's me so Nisaba was established just a few days after the fall of the state government then so we decided that youth needs to make their voices heard so a bunch of us were from parliament digital like most of us and that's how it started so our movement aims to empower youth in Saba to be more politically involved and to sort of bridge or fill in the information gap with regards to politics by improving political literacy so all of the members were you know, were people from different and various political meanings and background I think the reason Saba election was very complex that even locals are still trying to unpack it I think if we observe most elections in the world we see that there is an increase in polarization and I do think that it is also the case in Saba I do believe that the outcome of the election was a result of both this being worried for their livelihood, safety and generally just bread and butter issues and especially in the midst of a global pandemic you tend to care about what you're going to get right now so it's about which political party or coalition that can ensure that voters welfare will be taken care of so in Saba the issue of statelessness or undocumented migrants have always plagued us since the 70s so thinking that into context contrasting the two coalitions that exist on one hand you have a camp which focuses on trying to reserve their power against the federal government things like being able to have being able to have their own autonomy to self-government and voters were under the presumption that this may or may not be a prerequisite to getting more resources for the state but principally it's about taking control of our state and also rally under the message of unity and celebrating differences and as a party like a major party under that coalition kind of won the most seats and this camp kind of won the overall votes in the state but they didn't win as a coalition so they didn't win enough seats to form the government on the other hand you have a camp which operates in a more tribalistic and nationalistic sentiment claiming that unlike the other coalition we're not going to associate ourselves with immigrants or we're not going to help them because they're the ones taking our resources and etc so on top of that the accusation towards the opposing party by attaching them with labels like pro-PTI which locally means pro-immigrant made it clear that it's their stance so this coalition won the state election so both of vision do lead to the same conclusion which is to ensure that voters will be safe and your quality of life will be better once you vote for us but the side that won the coalition are the ones which promises that they're not going to associate themselves with immigrants and maybe do something about it they never said what it was but voters seem to believe them and voters seem to buy into that narrative so this immigrant and stateless issue became a very serious issue this election that you never got this bad you get completely polarized views on it and that's where it divides people because when I was small back then it was just a small issue and there were just microaggressions and all of those things but it never became this serious but this election we see that it became the deciding factor so from Undi Sabha's perspective there were so many candidates and parties contesting in the last election so our campaign kind of focused on opening up a discussion by engaging with everyone across the political spectrum and divide to kind of let people decide or make their own informed choices but mainly to let them be exposed in the discussion so I understand that everyone have their own biases but just by the virtue of having the people they support to be there with a presence of people from other you know, parties or representatives from other parties they can be exposed to just generally diverse views so yeah so that's us so as I do think that Mouda's intention is noble was very powerful in trying to break the culture of old politics and warlords in politics the challenges in Sabah I do believe are very different because I think Sabahans in general which includes the youth are very much concerned about the Sabahan agenda because since forming Malaysia it seems that they are not being treated as equals or if knowledge is equals and this is reflected in the constitution policies as well as the literal development of their state so the imbalance in power dynamics makes it very difficult for Sabah to self govern themselves and this will impact things like immigrants in Sabah infrastructure, internet connection having an assembly meant from an Islamist party that Sabahans never consent to by being shoved to them welfare and all of these issues playing Sabah are because of the imbalance in power dynamics they have no control over how things are happening to them so I guess in Sabah or Sarawak, Muda will need to compete with parties who are very loud and clear about fighting for the Sabahan agenda or Sariqan agenda so they really need to know how to position themselves in that climate so I think whilst the mechanism of Muda to be more policy centric to be more transparent and less hierarchy I do think that the prerequisite for them to earn the East Malaysian status especially in Sabah and Sarawak is whether you would fight for the Sabahan agenda because all parties in Sabah and Sarawak are claiming that they are the ones championing it so that's the barrier I think because if you want to talk about you know policies that will improve the lives of Sabahans and Sarawakians like everyone promised that every other election so why is this youth led movement any different so I don't think it's impossible for Muda to set foot in East Malaysia since we do like in Sabah we do have a Malay nationalist party dominating our politics yet we don't have natural Malays and Malays are minorities here but Muda is a multicultural party with progressive you know mechanisms and reforms could definitely set their foot once once they earn that stress from East Malaysians but I do think Muda's presence nationally was already shifting the overton window because I do agree that in Sabah's politics it is dominated by you know more seasoned and veteran politicians and it is evident in the recent you know lineup of state cabinet administration so the presence of Muda kind of shifted that mood in the recent election we observed political parties claiming that they have youth they have young people they have young women they have the youngest candidate you know in Sabah which is unprecedented so political parties ride on that wave as well which is refreshing because it looks like they are more accepting of youth being in politics but obviously I don't deny that maybe they're just using a set of tokens but if political parties are also championing for the youth whilst being in touch with local sentiments where does Muda position themselves then so it's about trying to move past that so I think one of the main challenge of only Sabah is obviously trying to reach people within rural areas and you have to take into consideration of Sabah's geography and how everyone's far from each other and it's very difficult to you know connect to one another because in some areas they don't have proper routes for you to go to their community and in some to access some communities you need maybe boats to travel to their villages and in some area in some in most of these areas you don't have proper internet connectivity so for you to send messages of advocacy and I think that was one of only Sabah's you know biggest barrier especially I think in today's context the challenge is more difficult because of COVID but just in general for youth political activism in East Malaysia you require a lot of resources for you to reach these communities and it's a huge hindrance especially for youth because they're mostly you know students or they're just starting their career but hopefully youth and you know other people and other communities could coalesce and trying to reach these communities to advocate for social change yeah so this now ends the presentation from all of us and we will now move to the live discussion in Q&A thank you Welcome everyone I hope you enjoyed the Keeney TV presentation and production we did try something new this year during COVID times obviously this is the first time we've tried that so hopefully enjoyed the collaboration and there was a bit of a lag there I think that's what happens when you play a video through Zoom there's not much we can do about that but thanks for thanks to our speakers Kira Wajet and Mahira for going to the trouble of pre-recording speeches and now are really compelling and so again in this idea of trying something new I guess we thought that there was a really interesting youth movement here in Malaysia worth discussing and obviously there's been so much going on in Malaysian politics and lots to discuss if you'd like to ask a question you can do so in the Q&A chat group initially we were going to open it up for others to give speeches and talks and so on and ask questions to the camera but the registration just got too big so we're now going to we're now going to just keep it to questions via written format and I'll do my best to go through them over the next hour so congrats to you all first and foremost on Parliament Digital I thought it was one of the most really exciting things to come out of Southeast Asian politics in the last months and it's a really great initiative to see young people using digital technology and promoting democracy in that way so I think the main reason why we thought we'd get you on these kind of initiatives rather than a professor of political science to talk through what's been happening in elite politics in Malaysia over the past while but by all means the questions may get out of this discussion I'll ask a few questions to kick us off and then I'll start to read through some of the Q&A questions and I guess the first question is just to ask I presume you're all watching with interest the protests in Indonesia and in Thailand the student movement student protests that are going on there and this has happened very recently but I'm wondering whether you see you'll expect we'll see more of this in Malaysia whether youth movements will move to protest and whether there are comparisons that you would make here between the disgruntlement from youth in neighbouring countries or is Malaysia a different case maybe Kira over to you first Thanks for the first question I honestly don't think that we will be reaching the breaking point soon so I think what Thailand is experiencing the student movement that they've reached where they really feel like they can't they don't see any other options anymore when it comes to voicing up their opinions and their grouses to the government but I think in Malaysia I genuinely think that we are not there yet and what I mean by that is that for me I see protests as a form of speaking out when there are no other options available but in Malaysia young people still don't even have that civil option yet because they are not exposed to what other options even so an example is that when I run workshops and I speak to my students a lot of them don't see they don't see that certain things as rights that they have the right to speak up they have the right to question they don't see that yet so until the majority of our Malaysian students are able to critically analyse what's happening around us I don't think that we will reach that breaking point soon enough this is also probably why you see many protests looking at the track record in Malaysia many of that happens in cities and we don't really see much involvement from Malaysians in other states I think in KK they didn't organise the Women's March to coincide with the one we hold in Sembananjo but even then it's only in KK and you don't see the same thing happen in Sarawak or Johor or Perles or Perah so I think we have not reached that breaking point yet in my opinion Mahira you're nodding you're agreeing from the from the Sabah perspective there yeah so I I agree that there's no appetite for that yet because I suppose Sabah is concerned with our obviously current state right now we're so people are a bit apprehensive if we're talking right now even though there's a lot of things happening that in our state that we wish we could change or been done differently but generally a massive rallies and protests of a larger scale are much stronger in Kuala Lumpur or in Selangor and most youth or students do go to West Malaysia to further their studies to kickstart their career so compared to KL I think protests you know rallies are not like as much celebrated or there's no appetite for it yet but you know anything could happen it depends on the mood and appetite of people at that time yeah Wajah Well I'd just like to add that in the past we are not alien to youth led student movements so if we look at the 1970s we had the Barling protest where Anwar Ibrahim himself let the protest against poverty what happened in 1975 was pursuant to those student protests the government amended the University and University Colleges Act to heavily restrict students from being involved in political parties and political movements and as a result our university students and youths in general have been living in a very sanitised environment for so long but in recent events do show that the youths when the moment calls they will mobilise for example in the Barling protest or the protest against one in D.B there is a sizable youth population that join in those particular protests but the underlying structural problems i.e. the prevention of political parties from penetrating to campuses the fact that there's no student autonomy when it comes to student unions I mean those kind of things really with the ability to think critically or to stop students from even thinking of joining these kind of civic movements in general so that is something that we will need to address and that is something that youths in Malaysia need to wake up to there is those kind of options and there are critical issues out there that you may need to be caught to enter into a protest movement at a particular point in time but at this juncture I don't see an issue that would trigger this kind of youth led protest not at least at this juncture yeah thanks that frames things interestingly which sort of leads into some other questions I had around some defining junctures in Malaysian politics because as long as anyone that starts to study Malaysian politics we're taught about ethnicity is crucial for understanding Malaysian politics so it's defined as ethnicity rather than demography so I kind of wanted to ask that question of whether demography is more significant or whether the polarizing topics around Malaysian society are entrenched in youths as well so what can you tell us about engaging with Malay youths and Malay attitudes towards say the role of Islam in the state the Bumi Putra policy rights of Malays and so on Kira to you first I can't say definitively that we've engaged many people or even many Malays on this topic but I think if we take a step back and look at these conversations in academic circles in activism circles we do want to look at this topic a lot more but clearly Malaysian youth we don't have that we don't have that platform to have these difficult discussions because there's always that fear that if you talk about Malay rights if you talk about Bumi Putra privileges you are either questioning the status quo or you're not sure what you're talking about so for example if you're not Malay and you want to talk about it they'll just be like this is not something that you should ever talk about because you're not affected by it but the thing is all this special rights all this different treatment that you receive either from institutions or the government or even the general public in a form of social stigma this affects every single person and kids grow up in school knowing that there are double standards there are opportunities that are just not available to them or privileges that are free for them to take up so but I think political parties do latch on to these ideas and these sentiments and play heavily on them regardless of which political party they are I think especially looking at the major ones even parties like DAP all that they try their best to be inclusive and diverse but you still have players within the party that when you go campaign you see them using and playing on these racial sentiments as well so I would say that the discourse in Malaysia still have not progressed past that and because of that and these discussions and discourse only stay within academic circles and intellectual discourse like this political parties will still use that as a weapon when it comes especially nearing to elections because they know that this is an extremely hot button issue and they will not hesitate to press on it I think I would be interested to see Muda's student tackle these kind of issues because I think every political party and politicians knows how dangerous it is to actually bring this up and one way or the other using it as a form of a weapon in their political strategies Alright, Wei-Jed is Muda inclusive of those range of perspectives? I think when Muda was conceptualized I think we aim to be as inclusive as possible and we also set forth very clearly that we will adhere to the Rukun Nagara and the constitution so that means that nobody is going to dispute the role of Islam as a religion of the Federation no one is going to dispute that there are certain affirmative action policies and trends in the law for Bumutra communities for specific areas so we are quite clear on that but having said that I do think when it comes to the issue of Agnesty, it really depends on where the voters are from so if you look at more rural areas perhaps the issue of Agnesty race and religion plays more heavily but as you move towards the semi-urban and urban areas it plays a lesser role so I do believe that there is a growing electorate that is proud of their identity as a Malay Muslim or a Chinese Buddhist for example and they also recognize that when it comes to electing the representatives there are a host of many other issues that they do consider and race and ethnicity is not the be all and end all and I think that it is our duty as a political party and politicians to not pander to insecurities and to the worst fears of people and the mistrust between the races and then that is what Saadik has made it quite clear in conceptualizing Muda and I think as a person coming from a minority ethnicity that also is personally very important to me for the past 3-4 years the kind of toxic brand of racial politics in Malaysia is really disconcerting and I do genuinely believe that the youths are perhaps less inclined to bind to those kind of race debating in general so it is our duty to first show that while identity is important there are issues like the economy, job creation climate change, quality of education youth specific issues affecting you which should matter us as well and number 2 we should also point out that the other political parties out there that are politicizing race and religion don't actually genuinely believe in pushing your race and religion to be protected but they are merely using it as a tool to gain political power and I think that we also point that out at the same time so that is perhaps how Muda would like to approach the subject Mahira you just lived through an election campaign and in your presentation you talked about the identity politics that was central to that campaign and polarizing did you get a sense that there was different attitudes amongst youth on these issues well with respect to role of Islam or Bumi Putra policy it wasn't I don't think it was heavily discussed during the recent Sabah politics but I do agree with what has been said by both of them I think they explained it well it is still a very sensitive topic and people are still apprehensive about it but at the same time I do think that youths are less likely to kind of buy into these narratives of fear mongering and that is reflective in the Sabah election I'm not sure what will happen in West Malaysia though but as for Bumi Putra policy and rights of Middle East I don't think and migrant workers in your presentation you talked about that was there a clear did you think demographic divide there in that as an electoral issue oh yes definitely so for in Sabah like specifically so that issue is the turning point of how people decide or who do they vote for and how political parties are going to deal with these issues so I think people are rather polarized on that and it seems that people are still buying into the narrative of like you know Sabah or for Sabahans and you know we have to protect our land like for us and you know like these narratives are still being used I guess like the context is just different in Sabah we have a question from Professor Meredith Weiss well known to us here at ANU and also in Malaysian politics and her questions around patronage and not just flat out patronage but obviously that's a problem in Malaysia splashing out on scholarship funds for young people for example but she wants to know about the more endemic efforts to go to the ground which have long swayed voters in Malaysia so what kind of civic education do you think that might convince new voters people who between 18 and 21 perhaps if you're just going to be voting for the first time to not be swayed by the fact that they are their families benefit from patronage or by a candidate's personal touch should we assume that younger voters today or even new youth candidates will perform differently so I guess she's talking about the systemic nature and whether civic education whether youth will be any different. Weijet perhaps for you first and I know this is something that you've thought about previously at Muda I think when the voting age was lowered from 21 to 18 I think one of the major concerns that we had is that our education system simply is not prepared to educate and teach the young out there on how to make political choices on what kind of things that you should not consider and what are things that you should consider and so I think that it then therefore lies upon NGOs like E18 and political parties out there like Muda to really tell them that look at the end of the day guess the personal touch and the integrity and the personality of your elected representative is important but more importantly that the issues are going to define and affect your life 24-7 365 days a year and those are the things which are going to really matter so when it comes to job creation, education and climate change those are the issues that we need to instill are far more important than the personality and how we go about that is perhaps a strategy that all political parties need to consider I mean we have seen how certain political parties are innovated to use videos and infographics or tiktoks you know we are talking about communicating with the younger generation today to try to creatively inform them that these are the issues which matter in a medium which appeals to them so those are the kind of strategies that political parties may have to instill it's not an easy task to tell you that the economy is more important than this charming 40 year old uncle who is giving you goody bags but it's something that we need to do and we need to move forward as a nation Kira yeah I think specific education, voter education is really what we are trying to do here in 2018 and I think it's a core part of education reform that needs to be discussed about I mean voter education is not just about political parties reaching out to potential voters but also educators need to change the mindset you know and they need to be prepared that when their students leave university or when their students leave high school they are going to be voters and they are going to be deciding the country's future so what kind of values and mindset that we want to prepare these students to have as they become voters and to move and to you know to understand that it's not just about voting for people who's helping my family, you know who's helping my parents and things like that but of course different contexts have different areas and different contexts so for example in Borneo there's a lot more politics of development where the politicians need to be the one who will be there, funerals need to be there and weddings or else they won't get voted in but I think more importantly educators need to emphasise to students that the specific roles that different representatives have for example I still get students who don't know that city councillors are not elected they are appointed when there's an issue of drainage issue they will call their MPs and not a city council so if we still can't understand if you still don't know what are the actual roles that our politicians are supposed to do it's very difficult for young people to evaluate them based on their policy stance ideologies and so on and so on and often associate with politicians so I think our education system needs to be reformed to accommodate the legislation change for the 2018 and we need to do it, we need to start doing it fast because if a snap elections happen after the law has been gazetted there will be so many more new voters in the system and I think it's actually even going to be very difficult for politicians and political parties to navigate this scene so I think it's actually a collective effort that everyone needs to work together and not just a concern for politicians and political parties yeah so I agree with Kira I think just through giving more like what we can do right now it's just like by giving more education and awareness to voters we remind of what's right and wrong but I do think that is something that we can actively pursue even right now but the thing is I feel like some people might already know but still kind of choose them or it's laced with something that made it seem like it's something morally acceptable for voters to kind of justify their conscience especially in rural areas so those who have higher access to information or like to internet connectivity are more likely to be informed so I believe that marginalized communities tend to be deprived of these things for them to kind of like for them to be able to distinguish like what is like you know within the rules of these political parties or MPs I think the younger generation are much more exposed to verified information and able to distinguish sources of news that are hopeful because in the reason election I do meet or bump into friends who's like frustrated claiming that their parents or their families in their hometown are voting for specific candidate because they've been charitable to them and they're advocating you know them like not to be swayed by it so in my mom's hometown like people get aid and donation every election but you don't see that in rather urban areas like in my area or yeah in urban areas but in rat you know like these aid are much more prevalent in rural area so yeah great thank you yeah really interesting answers I might turn now to the open questions that are coming through and I'll try and get through so please please do continue to send them through I expected this way yet so it's good to get this one started but a lot of questions on the pause Malaysia comment perhaps we could we could knock that one off early what do you mean is it accepting the status quo to say that Malaysians should pause I did note I think the I'm no youth leader also said we should pause politicking just yesterday or today correct me if I'm wrong there but so yeah perhaps you could clarify at what mood it wants or was thinking in that comment you're right in saying well in essence there are many political parties and political actors which I essentially say the same thing but they have not fame it as pause but no one has been an issue out of it so really what we intended to when we initiated the pause Malaysia campaign is to really invite political parties out there to stop jostling for political political you know political realignments and to parties and politics from jumping here and there which is the root cause of the instability that we are seeing today and we are also asking for no general election in the foreseeable future until COVID-19 is addressed so those are things which to me are quite common and logical in the pandemic that we have now and in the political instability that we have now some people have interpreted to say that we mean to pause any kind of constructive criticism or any kind of attacks towards other political parties for the statements that they make which was not the intention of pause Malaysia we have never said that we will not hold the government accountable we have never said that we will not speak up against abuse of power or the wrong doings of the government today so I think that the messaging can be improved I admit but I think that if you look at the original statement and original intent of Muda pause Malaysia started from a very noble kind of noble intention and I think that we do not so there is certainly no intent to stop this cause and stop criticism and accountability for the government today but you don't want to see an election we don't want to see an election only because it's going to deteriorate even further than the COVID-19 pandemic which you've just lived through Sarah do the Sabar election does that make sense to you having seen the spike of cases in Sabar that there should not be an election well I mean I do believe that the election should be done I don't think it was like the spread of the spread of the virus of COVID was due to the election per se because if we observe in countries like Singapore and Korea they've held their elections as well and you don't see a rise in spike so there has to be like something in the mechanism as to how we actually conducted this election so yeah but because of how things have turned in the Sabar election so you know we really do have to assess maybe like our machinery or our system what are the I guess like mechanisms that we need to put in place in order for like our democracy could be you know sustained or even assisted so people can participate in our democracy but as we stand right now I think a lot of people are apprehensive because we're not because of the rise in COVID so yeah I think people are apprehensive but I should I feel like previously it should like it could be safe it's just that something has happened that maybe could have been prevented Kira what's your thoughts on the pause politicking argument that some youth leaders including Muda have said is this a case where they're doing their own politicking this is why you're a bit concerned about youth political parties I think the post-Malaysian campaign is it came out a very interesting time especially on Twitter I think it got the most reactions on Malaysian Twitter especially because I think probably the day before there was the trending hashtag so I think I guess the general public were just confused that whether this campaign by Muda is to complement or to go against that particular campaign because and it's quite amusingly enough immediately after post-Malaysian launch PTR youth tried to launch their own forward Malaysia campaign it looks like to be in response of that so it became like a hashtag war on Twitter for about 24 hours or so which I'm not sure should be what encapsulates youth politics in Malaysia I hope it's not but I think if you look into the demands of post-malaysian specifically I really can understand where they were coming from especially in regards to the point of no elections because even though Mahira pointed out there are countries that have succeeded in running elections rather safely Malaysia did not do that Malaysia our politicians were reaching SOPs they were going around shaking hands, hugging, giving tempers and all that and they were clearly you know no regards given to the situation that we're in at all not to mention that there were many campaigns including by Bursay, Udi Sabah themselves have launched a request to expand the boundaries of postal voting and you know especially for the Sabahan diaspora in Semenajong Malaysia so I think unless the election commission is willing and have the political or have the will to change the way we do elections in Malaysia having another election especially as net elections is simply unrealistic and in my opinion quite selfish to demand clearly because I think we have I mean we can see how Sabah is really suffering right now every day almost a thousand cases and majority of them are from Sabah so I feel like yes we need to uphold democracy and yes we need to give people the right to voice out and to cast their decisions but we also need to seriously consider what and what cost do these come with and I think if and I'm not saying that there's a particular government there's a particular side of coalition that deserves to be in government because in the end you need the people to vote you in but I think we also need to be realistic and not just assume that we can we can live life as normal meaning that if there is a power struggle we should call for a snap elections right away because that is the only way to determine who deserves to be a prime minister so I think young people especially I think you can see the responses to the campaign they are not by politicians many people could actually see the logic of why Mouda is calling for post Malaysia because they are the one feeling the brunt of the SOP reaching the campaigning not even in Somnajong even in KL Slamo when we are going on lockdowns after lockdowns and we're not even sure whether we can still go and earn a living so I think there are multiple facets to this the impact of this campaign and not enough people are looking at it from different lenses and just assuming that I guess painting on a broad brush that Sadiq is supporting Tan Sri Mokigen as a prime minister I noticed you mentioned Twitter there and the blowback on that and that leads to another criticism that might be had of all of you although perhaps to Mahira less and that is the urban secular youth network that you all mix in and so I guess Indonesia is a really interesting case of a youth party that in the 2019 elections you know was driven by Jakarta urban youth groups and people and highly educated and with highly well meaning ideas but they didn't reach the 4% threshold so the question is from Qian Wang who's asking about whether there is a sort of this compromise from the outset because Muda is an urban secular youth network but you could say that perhaps about other groups that you're involved in given that pass and um no youth wings have already been part of the party infrastructure outside of urban areas Wait yet to you first Yeah I don't um I think there is a general perception I don't blame that Muda is a urban urban centric party but I do think that there is a concerted effort from Satic himself and many of us to include as many youth representative and leaders from you know all across Malaysia factors and industries and that includes you know people from the Orang Asti community in Kelantan to you know entrepreneurs or people involved in the agriculture industry in Sabah there is that attempt to reach out and I do think we do not want to be a party that is only associated to be concentrated for urban seats and urban issues at the end And is that possible Wait yet I mean like to get into Kelantan and try and trench there that Muda has is going to be difficult Well it's going to be difficult but that doesn't mean that there is no attempt that is being made Yes there may be focus that we may both place the emphasis on certain states and certain types of constituencies considering that a general election is going to come in the next two or three years So for example we probably won't channel as much energy and resources to a particular seat which we don't think is a viable option in the next three or four years when the general election is going to be called but I do think on the very broad level there is no discrimination we are trying to reach out to as many people as possible we do run engagement sessions with people from the northern region, the southern region So there is that considered attempt whether it's successful or not only time will tell In the near term however I do want to say that there will be certain focus and emphasis very in mind that a general election is going to come So that's something that we want to focus on Mahira are these guys in a Bunk Sa bubble? I guess when it first started they kind of had that perception but I don't think they are they did try to engage with a lot of communities they did engage people from only Sabah as well a lot of people from Sabah and different communities and activists as well on the outside it kind of looked like it but I don't think so it's just because they are professionals and technocrats but they are also actually from people from diverse backgrounds of different social class so what besides Sadiq from what I know is not he is from a middle class family so I don't think it's a Bunk Sa bubble There's a question here from Arindoshi which I think is a really good one it's asking seeing a steady rise in youth movements how would it be possible to gain the trust of older generations of Malaysians who may seem skeptical of youths and of political parties so I guess what do you see as some promise in common ground policies or issues which you might able to convince older voters not just fellow youths that your agenda, vision and skill set are what the country needs I would guess that this is a universal issue across any young person that's trying to prove themselves no matter what arena the politics of corporate or even in the activism world here in Malaysia as well we're constantly being second-guess, we're constantly being judged for just because we're inexperienced but I think if for young politicians who are trying to prove their worth I think I would honestly say that you know it's quite easy, not easy but I think if you want to look at her I think for example if you want to compare against seasoned politicians, yes there are many great seasoned politicians but if you look at Malaysians there's actually many bad seasoned politicians as well politicians who have been in power year after year after year and I feel like as young politicians or as young leaders rising up this is an opportunity to pinpoint to focus, laser focus on the pain points of Malaysian politics and to prove that we are the solutions or we are an alternative for what's currently out there so I personally think that how young people can set themselves apart is to move away from the racial, religion discourse that's being weaponised by existing political parties, make it issues-based, make it policy-based every time a young leader, whether it's politics or outside of politics like Mahira and I whenever we raise up concerns or issues we need to be able to suggest good and concrete solutions to accompany what we're talking about I think the biggest misconception that people have on young folks is that you don't know what you're talking about or you don't have enough knowledge about these issues but the thing is information and knowledge is not very far-reached anymore especially when you look at some of the problems that Malaysia have many other countries have already solved it I think we need to, young people can need to bring in their perspective of successful case studies around the world and see how we can have even kickstart the conversation on solving these issues here in Malaysia just to begin with is electoral reform so many countries, like we keep mentioning elections can be done safely in the pandemic so I think young people, young organizations need to provide alternatives or start speaking up and creating a larger pressure group to discuss these topics and to consistently stand by the solution that we are proposing so that we can make sure that our messages gets across to people regardless of the generations and regardless of the age because I think when you distract them from what they assume us to be whether it's Malay or Chinese or 21 or 55 and just keeping the discussion focused purely on the issues and policies I think this is how we can win over or at least bring people together in the same on the same space to have these discussions and to even talk about these issues, the issues that we want to champion for. Yeah, okay, well Jed how would this work at a party level so obviously at some point you're going to have to be part of some coalition of older generation Malaysian led older generation politicians and you'd have been criticizing them throughout a campaign and saying Malaysia needs to turn away and they'll have their own youth parties. How do you then reconcile to say that hey we've got a common ground? Well joining a coalition is not a given so I mean there is an off chance that we may have to go it out alone but in the event that a coalition is an option that we want to exercise, I mean I can't speak for the party now obviously this is my personal view. I mean I do think that we can bridge the common ground by perhaps making it a condition that there's a certain percentage of youth candidates that should be filled if we want to enter into some kind of agreement or something along those lines to justify the both sides on why and how we can work together and how we can complement one another and I think that is the bridge that we will need to form one another so in all honesty I've not really had the time to think about this particular issue on entering coalition at this juncture but I do think that yes there is a problem of old politicians and old politics dominating Asia but I do think that no matter how we move forward you know there is still going to be a involvement at the end of the day and we cannot disregard the older politicians out there. They are part of the problems but they are also part of the solution. They can be part of the solution if we leverage and we manage to reach some kind of positive agreement with them. So we cannot discount old politicians at this stage that's my message. Where did you have anything to add? I believe like most Malaysians and obviously politicians promise that they will make Malaysia better or aspire to improve the lives of Malaysians so like most policies or issues could be a promising ground if it's backed with data and evidence if we're able to convince everyone whether seasoned or veteran MPs or ministers that a particular policy actually benefits most Malaysians and Malaysia in general I don't think why it's like it could be you know impossible. We've seen undi 18 teams as well as YB Sadeh himself approach MPs across you know the political divide whether seasoned or young to get bipartisan support for the policy to pass so to convince like older voters as well as Malaysians in general similarly by leading through examples I think and I think they've shown it and this is our evidence I do think that a lot of young ministers and politicians exhibited their capabilities whether you know in office and like in corporate sector and I think even in the activism scene so I do believe that prime that's primarily why right now politicians start to care or start to include youth within their you know political discourse and have more engagement programs so yeah like we're very hopeful I don't think like you know we can always reach to a conclusion common ground There are a number of questions I'd like to get through but one is inevitable also a little bit on the party hopping seems to be this is a big issue in Malaysian politics is there any anyone like to tackle this question of how do we stop Malaysian politicians from party hopping is it a structural issue that needs to change that requires you know regulation or is it a ideological one where if political parties have more clear ideological policies therefore you can hold them to account more when they jump what do you think anyone want to jump in Okay perhaps I can jump in because I think Muda did release a statement recently on what we think are the reforms that are needed to prevent this kind of party hopping from you know continuing to perpetuate in the near future so our first proposal is to implement a recall election system in basically it means that you know if a particular elected representative hops to another party then the constituents in that particular constituency have the option if they have a certain percentage for that petition to do that to demand for another for a buy election and that defecting politician can recontest but so can other parties and the voters will have the ultimate choice on whether to choose the defecting politician or to choose another political party so that is one option that would heavily disincentivise a particular elected representative from hopping to another party the second proposal is really to it may be specific to Malaysia but it is to ban politicians and elected representatives from being appointed to government-leading companies because if you have seen how Tan Sringrin has sought to consolidate his power it is purely to appoint MPs into GLC chairman, GLC directives and think that if we have a law to say that is a no-no then there is not much option for a prime minister or a monthly bazaar, chief minister to buy a loyalty of elected representatives through the award of positions in GLC which are very lucrative in nature, they come with perks and bonuses and cars and all sorts of benefits. The third proposal that we have and it probably is also unique to Malaysia is to split the role of attorney general and the public prosecutor the idea behind it is that we want to create an independent director of public prosecutions it is important because in the status quo the prime minister may have certain influence on how criminal prosecutions are being done because the attorney general is also the government's legal advisor so we want to minimise whatever conflict of interest that exists now as much as we can to prevent prime ministers from using that kind of influence to either buys to buy political support which is common in Malaysia because a lot of politicians are being charged for corruption and bribery in the courts they have used that as a leverage for political realignment so those in JIS are what Muda has been proposing so far but of course there are many other things like for example giving equal funding for all MPs so that MPs don't feel they need to be beholden to the government of the day or they don't need to join the incumbent government to get funding for their constituents so that they are re-elected in the future so there are many proposals and mechanisms that we would like to push for Thank you, anyone else like to jump? Yeah I think just to quickly add on besides what Muda is suggesting to fix the problem of party hopping but another problem I think that actually Professor Wong Chin pointed out also that the reason why for example the Saba party hopping initially came to this point actually it was started when Shafi became Chief Minister back then when Saba realised that they were going to be in opposition state and everyone understand that when you want opposition and you are an elected member of the opposition you will either not get your allocation or have your allocation reduced drastically and this was a problem that PH also did not solve when it came into power the improvement they had was the allocation but it was much much smaller than government representative so I think when opposition members see that they begin their term as an MP or are already in such an unequal playing field I think this incentivises them to change their allegiances and to go back on the mandate they were voted in from so whoever is trying to solve the problem of party hopping in Malaysia needs to also look into this issue and make sure that if you are in government you need to ensure that both sides of the political aisle if you are an elected member of the opposition you are entitled to the same amount of allocation to help the people so I think this key issue is as well as there is a question from Ramat Shahzi and it's around the future of Malaysian industry obviously one of the questions we get a lot at Malaysia Institute involving Malaysian students is this brain drain issue and Australia in fact benefits a lot from the brain drain and a lot of young people come to Australia and they come to study and please there is the ANU but the brain drain is a huge concern for Malaysia in the aftermath of the pandemic and presumably economic downturn globally and huge problems around unemployment and under-employment for youths does anyone have an alternative vision which is the theme of our update the alternative vision of the future for Malaysian industry and this issue of low value aid industries versus high value aid industries Mahira I'm interested in what you think about employment prospects for young people in Sabah yeah so unique to Sabah I guess like we face some similar problem as well because even locals from Sabah youth from Sabah like they do go to West Malaysia to start their career there so I do think it's because people are not romanticizing a lot of the industries that Sabah could offer and I think the structure is like different you know so in Sabah like you can venture into agriculture or yeah things like agriculture or fisheries or arts that is not being I guess like there hasn't been ample support structure being given towards the youth in Sabah because I do think that Sabah is a large country with a lot of natural resources but I don't think that the government or the state government gives like ample support structure or vision or like how we could like kind of reinvent our economy so I do think that there are you know efforts into pursuing that and yeah so like I'm hopeful but hopefully like it's the government could do something about it but we do face and I'm not sure what is the step like the government wants to take but I do think there are ways that they could if they want to yeah. Thank you a couple of quick questions one to Wajat what would you say to those who believe the current government is unsuited for the task of handling the crisis and hence electing a new government is the solution to our current problems well I would say that ultimately there is a balance that you need to strike so do you want this current government to continue administering which I also personally believe have not been performing up to but what is the other choice the other alternative could be another prime minister like Arnau Ibrahim but you will also risk the possibility of having a general election and that is a real possibility should transfer immediate advice to King to Dissolve Parliament so I think that if you look at that from that perspective you may risk a general election which may aggravate the Covid-19 situation even further and the economic downturn could be even worse so I do think that we need to adopt that kind of nuanced view at the end of the day I do believe that we need to form another government but yes we need to wait for the appropriate time for the general election it is by no means mean considering that this government is functioning and this government is some government that I support but we need to look at it from a holistic point of view okay thank you a question from Greg Lopez a good friend of the ANU and graduate of the ANU's political science department his question is to all panellists is the system is inherently and systemically corrupt or are there just some cases of corruption Kira to you first I don't think all politicians are corrupt but I do agree that our political system allows for corruption to happen and to a certain extent do not it definitely allows and maybe to a certain point even encourages because it gives you so much space for abuse of power Mahira sure yeah I agree I agree as well I don't think there's there's enough safeguards and policies that you know that can be put in place to kind of just like control the powers of politicians I don't think politicians are corrupt as well but because there are gaps in laws and policies so they kind of you know exploit them and in the in the election itself would you say that the campaign showed systemic levels of corruption on the ground or it's largely isolated or in certain pockets that are like I said like it happens obviously in certain pockets not all politicians do it but it's happening on the ground and like there are no policies or you know safeguards are being put in place so hopefully there will be in the future um yeah okay thanks Wajid well I used to have some hope back in 2018 that corruption would be stemmed when eradicated when the new power came to power but obviously that has changed and they are now open calls by certain political parties that it is okay to lobby for criminal charges to be dropped something to that effect so it's really sad seeing how Malaysia was poised to combat corruption you know in 2018 and at the level that we have now where you know interleaders are going to have a comeback so corruption is a very serious issue and I think that Muda does set up to that is a huge priority for Muda we want to introduce laws which cap political funding which prevent this kind of loopholes from happening and prevent corruption from further perpetuating and I think that that is something that will play a huge role in the next generation to come thanks I might finish just on a nice softball question but I think it's important given the success of parliament digital um as a new model that um showed to you know parliament look this is how it can be done and it was in July uh this year but what now uh what what's how do you sustain something like this to keep it going here to you first I think that's a very good question because I think parliament digital really kick started a a hype of all eyes looking at young people after the event at least on my part we're trying to think about how can we continue to engage the group that's been impacted by the event by running in the workshops engagement programs but also we want to at 2018 we want to try to create more innovative programs like this to provide the platform for Malaysian youth to experiment and to play and to learn politics um that that we that they've never learned before the way they never learned before right we outside the boundaries of classroom and all that um I think we are also trying hoping to uh introduce them to to the concept of you know policies and not politics first because what we've learned in parliament digital that many of these participants have never been exposed to any form political advocacy before this is their first entry into you know what is debating in parliament about what are policies about even so we're hoping to create or or duplicate this form of similar form of innovation in future programs I personally am not sure if parliament digital will happen again next year because it was done in reaction to the parliament just sitting but I do hope that you know we can at least consider um and and you know other NGOs and governments to consider how can we innovate youth programs so that uh it's not just it's not just like a 2-3 day camp organized by the government and then they get they learn about boring boring stuff and then and then they just lose interest in politics or understand or policy. Mahira? Yeah so um I was helping out with parliament digital and most of the members in Wendy Sabah were from parliament digital maybe even if like parliament digital wouldn't be host next year but I do think like the impact was great enough that it mobilized a lot of youth into you know being more active and participative in politics so I think that's a great step and that's a great turning point. And finally Wajat there's a question here from Deanna Anwar who's a graduate of the ANU who's asking where does Muda see itself in five years so um perhaps you can finish on that one. Well uh it really depends on when the general election will be called I do think that you know if a general election is called in the next two to three years we may have a very strong chance well at least I believe that we have a strong chance of earning some seats in parliament and I do think that we have to build on that to push for for not only youth centric policies but a brand new kind of politics that focuses on issues that focuses that brings away from the personality driven politics that we have today and I think that that is the ultimate goal of Muda to make sure that youths are no longer at the back seat but they are at the driving force of relation politics and they their time is today and not tomorrow and that is the kind of message that we're going to bring and I do think that there is a lot of hope in what Muda will do in the next five years well thank you to all our panellists Kira Yusri, Limway Jet and Mahira Mazuki and thank you to all for being here today speaking of today and tomorrow tomorrow is in fact the economic update which will be at 10 am Malaysian time and 1 pm Australian time and we look forward to seeing you there and on Friday will be our cultural update 10 am Malaysian time and 1 pm Australian time so thanks for everyone for participating in the political update and hope to see you again tomorrow. Thank you.