 Namaste. Good afternoon. Good evening. How are you? Fine. It's a good morning. It's so nice to see you. All over the world. Yes. Indian nurses. Yes. Helping everybody. Yes. You make us very proud, especially in this time. Thank you. We don't often get to say this to you publicly. But you are representatives of our country and you are doing us proud. Not just you. Thank you. Millions of women, brothers and sisters like you. So it's an honour for me to speak to you, actually. Thank you. You're welcome. You may be wondering why I thought I should have a chat with you. And there are a couple of reasons. One is there are some of you who are abroad, some of you who are working in India. All of you have a different experience. So I wanted to have a conversation so that we could get a sense of what different people are seeing in different parts of the world and how they can help each other or how you can advise some of our people, how our people can advise you abroad. So that's one aspect. The second aspect is I wanted to get a sense that you should feel, not just you, but as a community. You should feel that we are with you. We understand you're doing a dangerous job. We understand this is not an easy job. We understand you're putting your lives on the line for this. And we appreciate greatly what you're doing all over the world and in India. So I'd like to start by asking you to introduce yourselves. My name is Shaili. I live in Liverpool, England. I've been here for more than 21 years. This is Vipin Krishnan. I'm Vipin Krishnan from Kerala. I've been working in Delhi and Ames for 9 years. Mr. Vipin, are you COVID now? Unfortunately. You are both fighting the disease personally and also on behalf of Ames. Both me and my wife are infected. We are right now in quarantine. But I believe you're okay now? Yes, I am perfectly okay, Rahul Ji. Thank you, Rahul Ji. That is good news. I'm Narendra Singh. I'm from Rajasthan, belonging to the Seeker District. I've been working in nursing for 15 years. I did work in Jaipur. I did work in Ramano-Loya Hospital. And the last job I did was in the Sub-Bezang before I left for the country. Now I'm working in Australia. New South Wales Health, Liverpool Hospital Intensive Care. And been working there for years. And looking after this old COVID patient. And now I think we've learned a lot from the last couple of months. My name is Anu Ragnat. So I'm from New Zealand. So I came here in 2004. So I work as a clinical specialist for older people in the community. So in Northland District Health Board in Whangarei. So thank you so much for taking this time to talk to us Indian nurses. And yeah, you're really showing some passion. So thank you so much. So this must be easily the most difficult time that you have faced. I think any of you would have seen anything of this scale. Can you give me a sense of how you're feeling while you're sort of in the front line? When this COVID started, we initially thought this is a simple flu. And we thought the flu is killing more people than COVID. So we didn't took really seriously this one. Once the COVID started rolling over and then we see the news every day and then Italy and the mortality rate is going higher and higher. Then that time we start thinking more and we thought this is not a flu. This is really serious. I think we have to take very serious this one. And then we start preparing on that one and then all the equipment, setting up the ICU, different ICU that's especially dedicated only for COVID patients. Australia and New Zealand have done pretty well. Yeah, it's really well. I think they did really well. I totally agree with you. The cities like Auckland, Kaischurch, Hamilton, they are pretty crowded. So it could have driven easily into five years if New Zealanders were careless. So I think going hard and going early was the motto by the Prime Minister Jacinda. So she's done absolutely well. I think going hard and early was really the right thing and that really flattened the curve in New Zealand. You mentioned that there was fear and obviously something like this will create fear among the patients, among those who think they're going to get sick, among the nurses, among the doctors. Can you give me a sense of what this fear was like in the hospitals? What did you feel? Were you worried that something might happen? What was the sense? For me, I work in acute medical unit. So we receive patients directly from the community. So initially there was a lot of fear. So who's going to catch this virus? Is the patients all coming with this virus? So my personal experience was when I was seeing a patient and she came in with no COVID symptoms. She only came in with the diary and vomiting. But because of her abdominal pain, I requested an abdominal x-ray and a chest x-ray and her chest x-ray was reported within minutes and it came back as typical severe COVID chest x-ray. So that made us all really, I wouldn't say paranoid but it was very, very cautious. So I did speak to my clinical directors, my clinical lead at the time. And at that time that was the beginning of March. Even at the time in the UK, we were not even in lockdown. So we've been told so we have to use the PPE, surgical masks, usual aprons and gloves. So since then I've been using that and we were seeing patients at the time day after day and then we went into lockdown. What is your experience in AIMS? How are you feeling in AIMS? Because their epidemic is winding down or our epidemic is picking up? You know more about our country than I do. Do you understand Hindi? Yes, I'm very fine with Hindi. So we'll do a mix of Hindi and English. Before that I would like to talk about statistics. Our country's statistics are that we have 1.2 million registered allopathic doctors in India and we have around 3.7 million registered nurses in India. When we are coming to the ratio it is 1 to 1,500 for doctors and 1 is to 1.7 is to 1,000 nurses in India. But the WHO recommended is 1 is to 1,000 doctors and 3 is to 1,000 doctors when coming to the recommendations of WHO. So we are running short in the scenario of human resources. But still we are fighting hard. But in our country the scenario is entirely different if we talk about private hospitals or government hospitals we will see the difference in the world. What is the difference? So when we are looking into the private sector there are a lot of discriminations. Private nurses are saying that their salaries are getting cut. How will they take care of their families in this pandemic situation? In this situation I think the government should help them and all private hospitals should pay their salaries. In this condition how can they look after their families? At this point of time it will be very difficult for them to survive even. Because you asked me one thing. You were afraid. I didn't feel that the pandemic was coming because to save this country it was in the front line. I was experiencing it myself. I was not afraid. I was not afraid of the pandemic. I want to tell the government that I am fine. I want to go to the COVID ward first. Yes, absolutely. But I was very surprised that in many hospitals in Delhi I was told that testing is not allowed. Yes, this is very sad and painful. Because I want to tell you a statistic about it. In 27th May our Delhi's infection rate was 13.7%. At that time we were doing 7000 testing, average per day. Now we are on June 12-13. So our infection rate has increased above 30%. And we are bringing our testing below 5000. This is very surprising because the infection rate is increasing on one side and deaths are also increasing and we are reducing our testing. I don't understand what is happening. Because someone was telling me, one of the doctors I was speaking to in one of the private hospitals was telling me that it becomes impossible for them to work if they cannot test COVID patients. Absolutely. They don't know whether he has COVID or not, where to put him. Putting two patients, one who has COVID, one who doesn't have COVID next to each other. So they were saying that they are completely frustrated and they do not know how to move forward. I think little bit is the governments are trying to manage the exception, they are trying to give a sense that the problem is not as bad as it is. But I believe that look, we have to face the problem. So we should accept the problem, define the problem accurately and then fight the problem. I don't know how you react to that. No, Rawal Ji, you are absolutely right. We have a fantastic situation. And the director of AIMS has also said that we are going to the peak at July half. So even the Delhi chief minister, respected Arvind K. Jirwal Ji has told that they are expecting 5.5 lakh cases. We are having around 10,000 beds in Delhi. And can you imagine the depth of the thing that if 5.5 lakh people are coming, maybe it definitely did not come at a time. But average 1 lakh patients a day, I can't imagine the depth of the situation. What will we do? Yeah. How about the people from abroad react to this? I just want to ask, you are on sick leave at the moment. Is that being paid or are they paying you? Right now, Institution has told that it's paid. But since there are a lot of people, it's a pandemic, a lot of people are getting infected healthcare workers. I'm even worried about that. So right now they are telling it's paid. But I don't know what will happen in the future time. And how you said it was for you to get the testing done though. Was it okay for you? Was it quite accessible? Yes, but when my wife's turn came, my turn was a little okay. But when my wife's turn came she had to wait for a complete 10 hours. It was a little worrying. It was a little sad kind of incident for me. It's quite upsetting as a family. I want to add one of the points you said it's very hard to do testing. As Raulji mentioned that you go to private hospital and they can't taste it. If you go to private hospital and then you can't taste it, it's very hard to manage. Because you can spread very easy to the other staff as well. And then you became whole hospital staff can get infected. So the testing is very important as much as you do your social distancing and other measures you use to prevent COVID-19. So looking back for the people who are abroad what is your biggest learning from this epidemic? What would be your advice to Indian hospitals, Indian nurses, Indian doctors, now that you've been through it what would you say are the key things that one has to look at? So wash the hand. You have to wash the hand. During the day like I do 12 hour shift during the day in 12 hours we do 100 times. Wash the hand. Put a proper PPE. That's quite concerned because I was talking one of my friend he works in Delhi we used to work together. He's saying me that a lot of staff and doctors are getting positive now. Which is one of them we've been as well. So this is very worrying. It means something is missing in that. Either we are not putting properly PPE either we are not using hand hygiene properly or we are not self isolating or maybe we are an asymptomatic care there. So you also have children? Yes. Children must be very worried that you are going into the middle of the hospital where everybody has COVID. That's a very good question. How are you dealing with that? Can I ask somebody else to come in? My personal experience is my husband is actually in the highest category and he was in shielding. So because I've been working with the COVID patients so I had to move out of my home leaving my husband and my children for 6 weeks. Now I've gone back 2 weeks ago I went back home. It's because the numbers are coming down. The number of patients in the hospitals come down now. And my management is so supportive for me. Here in UK it is so respectful. People are so respectful. We have dedicated shopping time for the NHS staff or the care workers whoever is the key workers. We have all those kind of. Every Thursday the government is putting in a clapping for care which is so supportive. All the supermarkets are very supportive. You feel that you are being backed up by the government fully? Yes. Do you feel that in aims at all? Or do you feel that you are alone? I would like to take care of one thing. It's a very important thing and it's sad. We had 2 nurses in Delhi. They were from South India. An extra technician. In aims we had a retired doctor. And we had one serving person in the sanitation department. We lost him unfortunately. Till now till today the compensation that the Delhi government has given us is 1 crore rupees. We still don't get it. It's not that we can give some amount of money and equalize the debt. It's not debt. But at least we should support their families. The government should do something about them. I would like to put the amount of compensation in your mind because we believe that you are the leader of this country. I will write a letter and try to see if we can expedite that. Yes definitely. Another thing is that nurses doesn't come under the risk 11 category of government of India. There are nurses and doctors. As healthcare workers we are fighting this forward in the frontline like the army. We can compare this like a bioarr because it's not a bioarr but a virus, a small microscopic organism is challenging the whole world and our country. So we are fighting like the army force. I am not comparing this with our force but at least I think you will agree with that we are fighting as an army. Yes you are a non-violent army. Thank you. And I would like to bring into your consideration that risk 11 should be given to nurses and doctors at least at this point of time because we are losing lives, we are exhausted and we are fighting in the frontline. Without any fear we will win and you and the government are all with us, we are all believers in the corona that we will fight this war and win. So I had asked a question about your family and I am asking the most about your family and your children what do you think how do you look after them because they are afraid that their parents are sick in the hospital so how do you manage them? From the New Zealand government the first thing the health minister was announced was a 10 million package for health workers. So that includes accommodation funding like if you like Shirley's case like if you don't want to go back home to an immunocompromised family member you can stay either in hospital or any nearby motels and the government listening to the rest of the team I feel like we are in a blessed position actually. Tell me one thing why is it that Indian nurses are valued so much abroad? What is it that wherever I go I went to the Middle East and they took me to a hospital there and then in the hospital they said look if we didn't have Indian nurses we could not run our hospital. I have to say about that Indian nurses sorry Indian nurses are very very hardworking they dedicate their life to the profession and Indian nurses don't care about themselves they see their patients in front of them as they are either their parents their children their mother, their brother or sister so that's what probably the COVID words like we've got people Indian nurses in managerial roles and planning not just on the floor and yeah definitely in the floor and in the community there's a lot of Indian nurses and I think it's we are Gorgias I think in the front line you don't think twice and the education the way our course, our curriculum is being designed I think we are ready to cope in any country in any situation in any scenario our background that education that concrete education curriculum is really backing us I think and it's easier for Indian nurses to cope in any situation we easily adapt been in few other roles before this and what I felt is like yeah you are in there for two months and yeah you kind of learn just quite quickly it's just all because of your background, concrete education and again as Charlie said we are quite compassionate by nature and how can we help Indian nurses and doctors who are fighting this battle whether abroad or in India what is the main thing that we should be trying to help you with what should we do to help you to help you always thank you for that thank you for asking you keep talking to us we will share our experience you will share your experience we also feel that we always love the India you keep talking to us it's a good thing for us in policy making I don't think our voices are being heard in a point that it should be heard so I I want to put that point in your mind that when a thing comes or when a policy is being made considering the nursing profession or the medical profession the experts in that profession should be asked for the thing then only the policy should be made but unfortunately that is not being happening in our country it's very unfortunate to say that because many organizations or leaders are not being called when it comes to the policy making decisions in all this Covid battle was there any experience that was positive for you that you felt this was a very happy definitely can you describe me one experience like that what happened Anu here in New Zealand again the communication between the government and health workers it was really really good I would say daily at 1pm during that 5 weeks lockdown our health minister and our president would come and do the press meeting and I think almost pretty much all the New Zealanders will tune to hear these numbers the levels and the president himself she made us feel responsible and participating and winning this battle the leadership styles were like one of empathy in a crisis my positive experience I would like to say about during the weekends during all this pandemic Covid cohort unit developed and working and the cohort unit I worked at the weekends and none of the nurses had Covid this was so it was such a brilliant news for us because nobody caught we have 20 patients all patients were admitted there were Covid positive patients none of the nurses had Covid that was good news that was such a brilliant news for us so my last question in all this of course the non-covid patients have a completely different trajectory because the hospital is occupied by Covid patients not all of them not all of the hospitals we have in our accident and emergency department there is a red zone and there is a green zone so patients were exhibiting the symptoms of Covid so they were putting into the red zone and those other patients who are not coming with the Covid symptoms so they were going to the green zone so once everybody is getting swapped everybody is getting tested so this is the only where we know and now we are not seeing many patients maybe the question that you asked in India it is more significant that the government hospital is not running we don't have a way around because that is also a question but how we can help these people because many people have cancer patients many patients are asking for help but we are not able to do anything because as you said our entire hospitals majority of the beds are being allocated for Covid not only names in majority of the government hospitals I think that it is important that people also hear different voices yes that's right I feel that's why I am holding these conversations where whether it is nurses or it's experts in their field or it's manual labourers but I feel everybody that makes up India should have a voice should be heard I find you have given quite a good perspective I think we work as a team we work as a team and then win against Covid 19 so I would like to thank all of you very much for your time I know it's valuable because you are involved in the fight against Covid so thank you very much and very proud of you all of you for the work you are doing not only you but millions of nurses and doctors like you who are from our country are doing an excellent job in India and abroad I would also like to thank you because you have given a precious time for us thank you very much so proud of you thank you for everything you have done for Wynard too I should say that thank you thank you thank you thank you