 Good afternoon, Salaamu Alaykum, His Majesty King Abdullah II, Queen Rania, our host this afternoon. We heard from President Azizi, President Abbas, and all the familiar faces in the front row and here at the World Economic Forum. It is a pleasure to be back in the Dead Sea. I am John Defterios, Emerging Market Senator of CNN, and also the hosts of the program we are very proud of in its eighth year. CNN Marketplace, Middle East, we have had a chance to interview a number of you. We had the chance and the pleasure to hear the challenges of creating growth in this sort of environment today from His Majesty King Abdullah and also President Azizi. Both countries, it is fair to say, are in a rebuilding mode in a period of massive dislocation, which if I am going to be candid with this audience this afternoon is far from being completed. Now, that is the biggest challenge, how to create growth in this sort of climate. But as we found out from His Majesty, that doesn't mean we stop the engine going forward. What we are discussing here for the next hour is the Jordan relaunch. What does the relaunch mean? It means an ambition to take growth of just over 3 percent in 2014 to a baseline of nearly 5 percent and perhaps up to 7.5 percent in a 10-year window. Most don't know that Jordan was growing 6 to 7 percent prior to the global dislocation of the banking crisis in 2008-2009 followed by the Arab Spring. Now, it is ambitious. The goal is to create a bouquet of offerings for foreign direct investment of up to $20 billion. Some will be announced in the session lunch after this panel this morning, creating fresh 180,000 jobs to the additional target of 500,000 jobs in that 10-year window and to create a sustainable environment for growth, regardless of what is happening around us today. Not an easy task, of course, but certainly not something that the business community wants to throw the towel in on either. Many of the business leaders in the Middle East have said time and time again during this period of dislocation there is opportunity, opportunity to invest, but also opportunity to create jobs for the future. We know this is a market potentially of 300 million consumers. It needs to create 50 million jobs over the next decade, and we can't stop progressing despite plans and ambitions of those who want to think differently. I'm going to introduce our panel after a short video here. Jordan relaunch video is a snapshot of those who have already invested in Jordan, who have already seen the potential of this market. There is a member of the World Trade Organization and also has a free trade agreement with the United States that wants to go to the next stage. Please, let's roll the video and then I'll bring our panelists onto the stage. Thank you. We in Jordan recognize and respect the central role of the private sector and global partners. So your work is essential to create inclusive economic growth. If we look back 14 years ago where Jordan was and where it is today, we realized that an economy of 14 billion has become an economy of 40 billion. The country is on steroids. It does not stop trying to improve the environment for foreign direct investments. As we've thought about markets around the world where we want to be active, we've looked for markets where the policy at a governmental level was focused on really making a fundamental change. Jordan is open, transparent and attractive. Jordan is different. Jordan understands how do you create a win-win environment between the private sector, the public sector and perhaps NGOs in the process. Maybe better than any other country in the world. It's a country where the leadership and the people want to leapfrog and go to the latest in technology and use that infrastructure to build the other industries. We in Jordan are offering over 20 billion dollars worth of public-private partnership, infrastructural investment opportunities. This project actually received a gold recognition as the best emerging market infrastructure project in Europe, Central Asia and the Mino region. The partnership between the ground tour, the Jordanian government and AIG works very, very well. We're in the business of developing and bonding infrastructure projects. And if you're looking at the infrastructure in Jordan, there is plenty of opportunities to enhance the infrastructure. Railroad is essential in the longer term in order to have an efficient infrastructure when we are talking to the implementation. The Aqaba can be a hub for the Wynard-Levan region. With the railroad, combination airport, seaport, that would place Aqaba as a unique hub, logistic hub in the Red Sea region. It has nine seaports, specialized seaports. It has eight logistic centers and it has an international airport, as well as it's connected to the regional countries with a strong network of highways. As for the year 2020, we shall be starting on Mersazaid and that's again a huge compound more of a multi-national city in Jordan. In Jordan, we are on the tourism map and the Dead Sea has become a destination. Before we had two hotels, only now we have six or seven hotels. They are coming from Europe, from East Europe, from the United States. More than 50 percent of our guests are foreigners even under the circumstances. One of our future major infrastructure related to water and desalation as well as protecting the environment of the Dead Sea. So this project that we are going to implement with other regional parties will be a major infrastructure project that will supply Jordan with the fresh water at least for the coming 25 years. Urban development is on the go. This is a growing city. We are going to offer close to 3 billion dinars opportunities of investments. Look at the BRT, which is a part of public transportation to carry people from point A to B. So Abdali is within that configuration that says it's a business center, it's a tourist center, it's a banking sector. Today that vision is a reality. This partnership has proved its success not only in Abdali, there are other projects that Jordan has come up with that are also private public partnership. Investing in Jordan has many values. We had a great experience doing business in Jordan and that is because in this country, government on under commitment, there is a culture of fair transaction and most importantly, there is a growth opportunity in this country. It's very important as we move forward as economies and into a progressive future that we develop local sources of energy, local ways of storing that energy and then local ways of using that energy and electric vehicles and solar and wind generation and battery storage offer that opportunity for us to develop in Jordan, to develop in the US and develop in other countries around the world. Our wind project was the first of its kind to be developed in Jordan. We are now well into our construction phase and hopefully within a few months we'll be into the operations phase of the project and Jordan will have the first renewable energy wind farm in the region. We are experiencing IPP-1 which is the solar, the largest solar farm in the Maan with 170 megawatts concentrated in the Maan Development Zone, the highest radiation experience in the southern part of Jordan. What is very exciting for me is Jordan has this opportunity to become the model country for what a 21st century electrical infrastructure should look like. When that's proven out in the region, that model can then be exported through Jordan to other countries in the region and make the entire region replicate a very successful model in Jordan. We've done a lot of work for others from Jordan and what we want to do is to start to create our own solutions, our own intellectual property that we can export globally and retain talent at parity with global standards. That's the contribution that such an ecosystem, such founders and start-ups are really contributing to the Jordanian economy. The National Broadband Network is a strategic structural project for Jordan because it's the infrastructure which will facilitate digitalization of the services. So we'll witness Jordan fully connected through this National Broadband Network which will of course secure a very secured network, affordable network and better services for Jordan. The world is our market, so we are exporting educational technologies to the world. We are in Jordan not because we are Jordanian only because of the taxation law that allows us to export to the world out of Jordan and enjoy a taxation break that no other country in the world can offer. I think once again Jordan is ahead in relaunching their economy and understanding the importance that the ICT community will play not just in the growth of the economy but being so deeply embedded in every change that occurs. Our partnership with the Jordanian government as a success story is a sign to investors, go for it. We know where we're going. We're determined. Resolve is our theme. Jordan is relaunched. So an 8-minute video that gives you a very comprehensive look of what the projects have been underway for the last 10 to 15 years and despite the obstacles of the global financial crisis and what we saw over the last few years here regionally, the idea is now to take 3% growth up to 7 to 7.5% growth by 2025 at the latest. I'm going to introduce our panelists. Let's say the round of applause until they're all on stage and then we'll have about 40 minutes for discussion and hopefully a few questions from the floor as well. Let's welcome His Excellency Mr. Muhammad Al-Alabar of Imar Properties and Eagle Hills, Dr. Basim Awadallah, Chief Executive Officer of Tomoe Advisory, Lieutenant General Stephen Boutil, Vice President of Cisco Consulting Services, Sir Suma Chakrabati, President of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, Sheikh Bahrauddin Hariri, the owner of Horizon Group Lebanon in Saudi Arabia, Mr. Ling Ming, the Chief Executive Officer of Han Energy Global Solar Power Group of the Netherlands and yours truly hosting this session. Nice round of applause for our panelists for joining us today here in the Dead Sea. So we had a fairly glossy look at what was taking place in the country here because of those are all the constituents who have already invested or have worked to make this investment come to life here in Jordan. We brought a variety of different stakeholders and the Jordanian economy as well but I've asked all of them to take off the glossy glasses here, the rose-colored glasses, and look what needs to be done in this uncertain climate to move forward. We have a slide of all the different sectors that were covered in that film if we can bring that back up again because this shows you a sense of what's been done over the last 10 years looking at the various investment opportunities here. So what we were talking about was from transport, ICT, infrastructure, water, tourism, urban development and energy. This is an economy of just 10 million people. But can it serve as a catalyst for growth in a neighbourhood that is very unsettled at this stage with Syria to the north and Iraq to the east having problems even in the very last week? Mohammad Al-Arabar, we've seen each other at various panels recently and you've talked to me in the past editorially about when there is dislocation you have to look at whether there's light at the end of the tunnel, is the framework in place, are the politics right, whether you decide to put more chips on the table here. Now during the 8-minute film we saw the project in Aqaba. Masasai has got a huge development problem. I was surprised when I covered it as a story a year ago. You had a choice whether to come in or stay out. But the blueprint was there. You think it has a lot of potential. Tell us why you decided to come in and not fold at this stage. You know John, I think what's interesting is that as a public company we've been in the business now for good 20 years. I think the public see our number on a quarterly basis so we can never hide. We've been living in an so-called unstable environment I guess at least been in the Middle East for 20 years after spending time in Singapore. So it has been one, thank God, decent story of growth. So therefore we are from the region, we understand the region well and we understand the potential. Now as businessmen the numbers have to work together. There ought to be a return at the bottom of it. While at the same time we are a bit emotional about the region because we are from the region and we are emotionally engaged and we want to do business but at the same time we want to be good to the society, we want to support our governments to really implement their economic policies and be good to society. But while we are emotionally involved, I don't think our shareholders or our bankers are going to be happy that we just get emotional. I think they want emotions fine but I think the numbers have to tally. So when you look at Jordan and how we moved forward with our investment in, if you talk about Acaba, the numbers have to work and the numbers are working and while the numbers are working I think it's probably macroeconomic issues, good or bad. They still reflect decently on the economy. I think there's good policies within the government, the leadership of His Majesty and we all understand that if it's really in my home or if it's in my company or in my country, if there's no leadership and there's no focus, plan, follow up, then there is an issue. So there's a belief in the leadership. It has proven that it's working well and it works really hard, Your Majesty, and we feel it. But at the same time, you know very well the region, you understand that the numbers are looking good, but you know very well that the story moving forward is a story of growth. We've seen it, we're optimistic, and the same thing you can repeat and you look at some of the stuff that we're doing, great stuff we're doing in Egypt, we feel the same way. We know the numbers, we know the growth story. Even though you look at the whole region, you see we are the source of bad news to the world unfortunately but you know we've got 300 million population young, government policies that are positive. I think governments are working hard to make it happen and we at the private sector will contribute, but at the same time the numbers have to make sense, otherwise our bankers and our shareholders are not going to be happy. So the story is a positive story for us. Okay, thank you very much. But I must say one thing, John, is that if you compare my rate of return on my projects and if you take me to UK or you take me to the U.S., you know the numbers of rate of return on these countries is relatively too small compared to the return I get in Jordan if I were to look at Jordan or if I look at the region in general. Okay, thank you very much. And as Mr. Alabar had mentioned here, he feels an emotional attachment to the region and making things work for the better of the broader market that I was talking about in my opening comments. One who can't take that view is Summa Chakrabarti because he has to report to his shareholders as well, but he has to be president in so many different countries around the world. I was looking at the track record of the EBRD here in Jordan and see that through 2012, there's been nearly $440 million approved, and if I'm reading my numbers correctly, that could get up to $680 million of all the projects that are on the table push ahead. The sectors that I brought up in terms of that chart before, Mr. Summa, have a very diversified option here. What are the key sectors to build that infrastructure up correctly for other investors to come in for that second wave, would you suggest? Well, thank you very much, John. I think I would like to just say one thing at the beginning. It's okay to be emotional about this country. I'm emotional about this country. I'm a banker, I'm a development banker, but this country has a lot going for it and we need to support it. The key issue for me is how to close the gap between its potential and where we currently are in Jordan. You mentioned the numbers. In terms of EBRD, in two years, we've had from a standing start a huge start, and that has been due to some of the things my colleague has just said. We've had great cooperation, frankly, from the authorities, from the government, putting the right policies in place, trying to do the right thing. Taking a long-term view, we as businesses like governments that take a long-term view and are consistent in their policies, the government has been. I think what His Majesty said this morning about the macroeconomic policy for the last few years has been an object vessel, in fact, to many other countries. It makes it very attractive to many investors, too. There are things to work on. The investment climate clearly is something that doesn't need to be worked on even further. Jordan needs to lift itself up at the various league tables. But here are three sectors that I think really, where Jordan, you wouldn't think at start, from the start, has a great opportunity, but it has a massive opportunity. One is the energy sector. And you heard it from some of the people on the video. We're investing heavily in the energy sector, in energy efficiency, in renewables, in solar. In solar, Jordan has a comparative advantage compared to just about every country we're working in. And that's why we're investing very, very heavily in that sector. Another area would be the SME sector. I think the SME sector is untapped relatively. We're putting a lot of financing into the SME sector through banks and directly. I think one issue that we need to face up to in terms of solutions is perhaps the Jordanian banking sector is being a bit too conservative, in my view. It's got a lot of liquidity. But I think the way it approaches, if you like, loans is a bit too conservative, asking for personal guarantees too often. I think asking also for collateral, that is property. That makes it more difficult for female entrepreneurs, of course. Those are sort of issues that do need to be tackled. I think to allow the banking sector, which has the cash to put more money into the SMEs, and that would be good for job creation, obviously, as well. The third area, and again mentioned this morning by His Majesty and by others, is the technology sector. I mean, this country is now becoming a real power in the technology sector, I think. And we're, again, putting financing in through Badeir, through a new national innovation centre, which we've just got money for, from the Doveville Partnership Transition Fund. This is all very good, and this is in recognition that Jordan has the innovation, the creativity amongst its population to really take the sector further, to be a powerhouse, actually, in the region. One big issue, though, I think, that we do need to face up to in this sector, and also in the SMEs, probably, as well. Jordan doesn't lack for creativity and technical skills. That's not the issue. What entrepreneurs, Jordanian entrepreneurs, say to me, they need much more support if they're to grow on business management skills. How do you run a company? How do you run it well? What sort of business plans do you create? What sort of corporate governance should you have? So that doesn't cost a lot of money, actually. It's good advisory services, and we in EBRD need to do, I think, more in that area, but also to others, too. Stephen Boutel interviewed John Chambers at the last World Economic Forum here in the Dead Sea, and it's rare that you see him so passionate about a market in the Middle East. He's going to almost bleed Jordanian blood, because he saw opportunity here in the past. If you look at the list of what Cisco has done in the country, it's quite impressive. Healthcare and a whole different series of different sectors. Where is it going next? Now, give us just a taster, for example, of what you've done in healthcare, what you've done in education, what you're doing in other broadband network services that you think are vital to the next stage of growth in the country. Thanks, John. And I think this is a great opportunity for a relaunch. It's a relaunch in Jordan, but it's really a global relaunch, because what's happened over the last 10 or 15 years, and Cisco's been involved since 1999 with the public-private partnership, a great relation with His Majesty and the Kingdom. He identified very early that Jordan had not only the people, but the capability to really, really stretch the envelope in the region. And so we became very early in the public-private partnership. John absolutely believes in Jordan. You know that. He's very, very passionate. You saw him on the video. So in 1999, we became involved, and we started several different processes. And one of the things we do is we absolutely believe in the education piece, and that's through network academies that come in different forms. We have about 170 countries. We have network academies, and either in a public-private partnership or in our social responsibility. We started out with the public-private partnership here with the academies. And what we really stress is not only the technology, but the entrepreneurial piece. Problem-solving, communications, those things, and employer works for. And we started off with, initially, with about 340,000 people being trained in Middle East and North Africa. But the first one we did here was a UN Women Gender Initiative capacity building. And we started off with about 8,000 people, which 55 percent were women in the first initiation of it. We set up 15 Cisco academies. We next moved, and we have network academies in the military. We move about 400 people a year through that. We have the Jordan Engineers Association. We have three centers with the Jordan Engineers. We produce about 500 certified people out of that a year. We have the Jordan University Initiative of Science and Technology, the Just Program. We're translating health information networking into Arabic for use throughout the Middle East. That will be done in 2015 and 2016. We've been investing in companies. We invested in, we needed a technical support center in this part of the world, a TAC as we call them. We invested in a small company called Estrada. That company now has 270 people. It is our TAC, our Technical Advice Center for the Middle East, and now for a lot of the world. It gets some of the highest ratings in the world. Jordan's resources and treasure are the young people. And that is a tremendous resource. Jordan Healthcare Initiative, we started that in 2014. Our 2011, we've been doing that for four years. We have the Jordan Health Initiative. We have mobile health vans. We have radiology vans. I think we've had about 110,000 patients go through that. And we're also in the venture capital aside, and we're part of the BIDA Fund. We put $6 million into that, which is invested in eight different companies. We've committed to invest more. So we absolutely believe this is the right place to be. Okay. That means that Cisco came in, when His Majesty came into the rain here, 16 years on the ground. My question is a little bit differently than what's been done the 16 years. What are you willing to do next in this sort of climate, particularly as an American company? Many American companies get scared away, Stephen, as you know. I think the first thing is, whether we like it or not, this national, this broadband is creating a global engine for growth. It brings a lot with it broadband and cellular penetration. The broadband we're seeing grow is the engine for growth. If you are not a participant, you will be left behind. And what we're seeing is countries that embrace it, and they also have to deal with the downside of broadband and cellular penetration. Countries that embrace it create innovation. We call it Internet of Everything, or Internet of Things, because every device is being connected to the Internet. And over the next few years, it's like $14 billion now. It'll be like $40 billion devices connected in the next five, six, seven years. That's where the innovation takes place. That's where the global economy is going. And that's how you drive it. So what we are looking at is in our smart and connected cities, economic centers that we're doing, the four of them in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar, some of the cities, some of the work that we're starting to do in Egypt. It really is driven by what's happened in the last five to ten years, and that's everything is connected. A country that is not connected doesn't provide the opportunity for their industry and the people to participate will be left behind, and that's what we're trying to leverage globally. Okay. Bassam al-Adel is a very familiar face here in Jordan, but also in the region worked in the Royal Court in terms of the early stages of economic policy, 1990 on and beyond. This economy is growing six to seven percent, and you kind of felt the momentum of Jordan, and I can even recall a number of people willing to put money into Syria because they saw the opportunity of the market, and then we've had gigantic dislocation over the last five years. Now, as Majesty has suggested, we'd like to get to seven and a half percent, and during our interview yesterday I said, is that bar a little bit too high? He says, let's not forget, we were growing seven percent before the global financial crisis. Concretely though, Bassam, what are the ingredients to sustain six to seven percent growth in Jordan at this stage? Well, John, just to keep it in perspective, obviously the political situation has cast its shadow. I mean, the revolts, the continued instability, the deep change that has taken place in Syria and Iraq. These are historically the two major trading partners for Jordan, remember, as well as what's happening in Egypt, Libya, Sudan, Tunis, and also Yemen. This has, this is rendering the future of the region increasingly bleak, and together with the stalemate on the Palestinian-Israeli front as well. I mean, that has put enormous pressure on Jordan. I think the two major economic aspects, the two major economic results that have come out of this regional situation, one is the hosting of 1.3 million refugees, Syrian refugees in Jordan. This is equivalent to 20 percent of Jordan's population, and out of a funding necessity of funding appeal of 1.2 billion dollars, only 195 million dollars has been received. That's 16 percent of the total funding appeal, so you can imagine what the pressure is on the government. The second result is the massive increase in the subsidies for the electricity. As a result of the shift from the natural gas to heavy fuel oil, with that alone, as a result of the holding of the Egyptian natural gas supplies, that alone has accounted for half of the national debt since 2011. So today's debt is almost 90 percent of GDP. This was 60 percent of GDP back in 2008. So you have a very bleak regional picture. Despite all of this, the International Monetary Fund, only a month ago, on the 24th of April, comes out with a statement after its sixth review of Jordan's three-year economic plan program, and states, and I quote what the IMF is saying, that Jordan is still persevering within a very difficult regional environment, and continues to face burdens, social and economic burdens, on its economy because of the conflict in the neighboring countries and because of the hosting of refugees. This has affected also the external and the fiscal balance. Nonetheless, the IMF report continues, Jordan is showing growth is actually accelerating, inflation is low, and the external and fiscal balances are gradually strengthening, and the banking sector is actually sound. End of the quotation of the IMF. Now coming from the IMF, this is not bad. This is a very good report about what the government is doing and about where Jordan is faring, and really it is no accident, this resilience and stability of this country. I think it speaks volumes about the leadership of this country, it speaks volumes about the people of this country, it speaks volumes about the economy of this country, remember. This country has gone through the start of 1999. The reforms that have taken place in Jordan are very deep, and many of them maybe will not continue to their full extent. Many of them are not holistic, taken in their holistic approach, but even with that, they really provided a shield for the Jordanian economy when the times became rough, and we are all still living in these rough times. And you can see that this is the case today, when Jordan has been sheltered and resilient, and everybody speaking about the economy. The second factor is that Jordan's big asset is its young and educated people, and this is something that is really a big asset which is not there in many, many countries around the world. We do have an advanced infrastructure and we do have obviously a very strategic location. This has helped Jordan. Remember that also foreign investment is part of our economy. 90 percent, the foreign stock is part of our GDP. Today, 50 percent of the companies listed on the advanced financial market are actually owned by foreigners, both at the individual level and at the institutional level. So this really shows you that there is a deep knowledge of foreign investment and how foreign investment can actually affect Jordan and promote growth and sustain growth in the medium and long-term. I'm sorry I'm taking a lot of time, but maybe if you just give me an initial question, what's going on? Jordan obviously is a member of the WTO. It has access to over one billion customers worldwide and at the end of the day Jordan's dynamic sectors like the IT have proven that they really can create jobs for Jordanians. This is all on the positive side and this explains the resilience of the economy. But having said all of this we all know that foreign investors are still shy. The political situation in the region is really reducing the appetite for foreign investment in this country and in the region as a whole. And I think this is the question that needs to be raised. I think this is the question that is on the minds of everybody in this hall saying that there is a very difficult regional political situation. There is a resilient Jordanian economy. The Jordanian economy is making a turnaround finally. How do we sustain that? How do we accelerate that? How do we actually relaunch the economy of Jordan? What do we really need to discuss? And part of the discussion should really focus about countries that have looked at unconventional extraordinary measures in distress times. Remember Saudi Arabia spent 20% of its GDP in 2009 as a fiscal stimulus. The United States spent 6% of its GDP in 2009 as a fiscal stimulus. China spent 5% of its spending back in 2009. You have many other countries actually that have looked at the monetary stimulus. The Federal Reserve in the United States increased its balance sheet by 20% since 2008. So really we really need to think out of the box. I think in the case of Jordan coming back to Jordan what needs to be done I think the government is doing a very good job at focusing at the macroeconomy, at focusing at macroeconomic stability, at focusing also at regulatory reforms and public services. A few days ago as you said they issued the 2025 vision and I think they really are concentrating as well on investment in major sectors in energy, in water, in infrastructure, urban development. This $20 billion package I think is a very important thing. Having said this, this is necessary. This is very important what the government is doing but I think in and of itself it's not enough to actually boost the growth and achieve what His Majesty wants in terms of 6% and 7%. We need to create 400,000 new jobs in the next seven years and this requires at least 6% real growth in the economy. In the Gulf region today we have 600,000 Jordanians. Now the Gulf is not going to be able to take more Jordanians over the next few years so we really need to concentrate on our economy here. So I think what we need to do is to emphasize in addition to what the government is doing we need to emphasize two other ingredients. One is the human resource development by looking not only at the numbers by looking at the quality of education. We really need to support entrepreneurship and we need to support innovation in terms of our focus on human resource development. The other thing is SMEs and that's the last thing I will say. SMEs as you said this is a core of the economy of Jordan. We have 100,000 SMEs in Jordan. They represent 97% of the companies of the total companies registered in Jordan. They provide 60% of the jobs for the total workforce and 70% of all new entrants in the market. SMEs account for 45% of our exports in Jordan. So this is really what we really need to concentrate on. Funding for SMEs you have to look at private equity funding for SMEs which really is significantly low at the levels at the current levels that we are talking about. If you give me an chance later on I would like to just come up with another just proposal about public-private partnership if I have the time. I would also bring in Sursuma afterwards about youth unemployment. We have talked about it for 10 years and you couldn't suggest that this economy is not reforming and there are a lot of examples in the region who are pushing the traditional economic reforms but the birth rate is growing faster than the job creation which creates problems. Opportunities of course because it is a young workforce but also the challenges of finding them the right jobs and getting the right education mix as you were suggesting. Baha Dino Harir it's nice to have you on the panel. For those before they leave Jordan I would suggest and I did this and shooting a story last year take like a seven minute detour and find your way into the boulevard into Abdulli. It's really something I had talked about for the last four or five years I've got to do it, I've got to do it and actually we shot a story last year it's the new downtown of Amman and I really thought it was all kind of glossy commercials and nothing there and there's no destination and it's going to the next stage right now with the John Hopkins University Rotana Hotels has moved in there it's a whole set of retailers and it's become like the new Agora if you will of Jordan. Now the reason I bring it up and I think it's an amazing project in itself but it was delayed. I know you got hit by the global financial crisis you had to have deep pockets to stay in then the Arab Spring and people got nervous and now it's gotten rebooted. At this stage today do you feel comfortable that it can move ahead without any more setbacks after getting clobbered twice in a five year window? Yes I truly believe that the planning and the leadership and the vision is there you are right about the setbacks we had they are big setbacks Bernanke the Federal Reserve Chairman said in 2008 we were not close to a recession but a depression a 1929 type of depression so of course the ramification and the wave of this crisis even reached our region today yes true there are issues in Iraq and Syria and everything but like Mr. Al-Abbar said it rightfully we are used to these issues in our in this region Saudi Arabia is growing Emirates is growing, Qatar is growing we have to build ourselves and move forward Abdali is only part of that configuration and that diversity in this economy there will always be difficulties but I believe like Abdali to date we are going to open Erotana by the end of the year Amal by the end of the year Hopkins in 2017 banks are moving in from the region and Jordanian banks are moving in insurance companies are moving in why because they believe that the vision is there and such project cannot succeed unless there is long term vision this is where such project can succeed and I am very happy to see the launching of the 20 billion projects because this is what the government has to do to provide the infrastructure and like we have seen before and to facilitate private public partnership because at the end Abdali is a private public partnership and this is how we have to move forward the private sector is key to promote this growth in Jordan this infrastructure that will see the light of day hopefully and that we saw in the last 10 years this is what will bring more and more investments into the region not only in the 20 billion but also promotion into the health sector tourism and other sectors that has been developed within Jordan do you actually think if I can get a quick answer on this Jordan can serve as a model like UAE does with Dubai as a financial center for this part we saw a lot of capital coming in with Iraqi capital with Syrian capital the last few years but I know the banks are moving in do they see this as a second financial center for the broader Middle East and North Africa I think the key for Jordan Jordan's first has a huge history with Iraq Jordan has a huge Iraqi diaspora which is over a million and that is living in Jordan I believe we have to build and to be ready for post Iraq post Syria the safety is here the stability is here the vision of His Majesty is here and this is where we have to build and grow as it is growing and I believe the 6% 7% growth will be once Syria stabilized Iraq stabilized maybe it's not for tomorrow maybe it's not for a year but sooner or later hopefully this must see the light of day and I myself I am more of a a realist optimist but a realist at the end so you have to build and move forward but I believe Jordan can play a big role into this configuration between Iraq and Syria good thank you very much for that I want to come we've got about 10 minutes this is just right and then I want to bring up some more provocative political questions in the context because I often hear this discussion jeez poor Jordan King Abdullah is doing all the right reforms if he only got a break from Syria if he only got a break from Iraq if only they would commit money as they pledged to get him through the crisis because of all the refugees if only this if only that but I'd love to hear from the business community where do we go here in terms of security what would the business community like to see what we see in the region so think about it and I'll come back to you I think it's an excellent time to bring up the sector of renewable energy taking advantage of solar power that Jordan has in the 300 days of sunshine you're thinking of Jordan not just as a market on its own obviously you see it as a with its free trade agreements as an ability to build a base a manufacturing base and use it as a leaf frog to the broader region can you mention the strategy and also mention what the next 45 minutes are so tell me thank you Joe it's honor to talk here we come here well prepared to invest in Jordan we see today we listen personally to his majesty's speech and the Jordan's vision so this is the most attractive scene to us energy as a renewable energy investment and manufacturing company we always look at the leadership the public private partnership the key is the public without government vision and a strong leadership you cannot go on for long term in a sustainable way so we think Jordan at this moment is in three elements are there the timing the location and the people and the timing is we are in time that the change of our vision how we are going move forward on energy and such the change of the price of oil and the people are searching how we are going to move from now so I think it's not the disadvantage that under the ground we don't have much oil it's okay this is an opportunity we search for alternative that's a renewable we understand that 20% GDP spend on import of oil can we make this 10% of this 20% made in Jordan we make energy here without import I think energy and other renewable companies solar companies will be able to help to bring the new energy to new economy and also growth of the economy to this country and we believe the time of simfilm power and the distribute power production and the mobile energy is the new era for this region and I think Jordan is in the center and can take a leadership in a role that to demonstrate that energy and energy mixture in terms of the Jordan it's ambitious the domestic production of energy now to meet the needs is just 2% under this 2020 to 2025 plan I want to get that to 39% which is a huge leap over a 10 year window you're convinced they can do that and the energy vision is by 2035 most likely will happen that more than 50% of the world energy supply will not come from fossil will come from other renewable and alternative energies so it's good start for Jordan to invest instead of the other energies but renewable energy is a future when technology allows the efficiency converting the sunlight into energy we can already reach 30% of such efficiency while you're using fossil it's only about 1% of sunlight come to the earth so this is a big difference and this era is already coming okay thank you very much now I said I wanted to see where politics security and economics converge I don't think you can divorce the two and we often don't talk to the business community which is trying to look for opportunities looking to see where they can develop but have to navigate through a great deal of uncertainty so I'm going to pepper the questions across the panel here for the next 10 minutes and be very blunt about it do you think the global community DCC which has a very close affinity with the leadership here in Jordan is doing what it can to circumvent what we see around us in terms of chaos today you're a leading businessman you're in a number of different markets what would you like to see done I wanted to answer you directly but I definitely would like to see more done without a doubt because I think the interlink of relationship and security and economic will being is one of the same for it but as a businessman I also would like to tell you one thing is that if Jordan is grown at about 4% now and we're talking about all the chaos that's going on around us this cannot continue I'm optimistic that we are going to settle this so imagine what will happen once all these issues are settled in the region in general so therefore I think we are starting at the right base now even if you ask me as a businessman I think it's the right time now to make that investment if you are realistic optimistic and can assist risk but also another we talked about emotion earlier you know why I'm emotional about some or most of our investment and the numbers have to make sense as I said the bankers will not help me but you know we as businessman I must tell you that we get created because of government help how did I get created I got created by my government support I got created also in Egypt in Jordan by the support I get from the government of Jordan and extraordinary support so I think we as loyal human beings I think also we need to be reasonable even though we're getting rate of return I think we time to pay back as well I think people are built on loyalty I'm loyal to the people who came and picked me up when I was nobody and it became somebody I don't think we should forget the favor right I'm speaking I'm speaking from my heart and I run a public company and I'm watched every three months people want to know my profit that's how much pressure I'm under but I think at the same time we should be brave to say I've been supported these people help me grow it's time for me to go in and the numbers also making sense so that's why I still believe I think emotions are important because most of our businessmen our governments have given to us okay and we follow up very quickly though do you think we're seeing the unity that we should in terms of a security basis are we going to get to the end of this in the next four or five years are we going to be having this conversation in four or five years about even greater dislocation I'm very optimistic that I don't think we'll have this conversation why do you say that well I think I'm involved in so many issues I deal with a lot of matters and I see the unity I see the work that's going on I see the belief more than any other time that we are really one that we all need to support each other because we are all in this together we are 300 million people or more or less and truly the events the past I say 24 months or 40 months have shown that we are interlinked and I think the leadership also realizes that and they're working on it and one month they do much better than other months but they're focused on it while they're doing that I think also our governments are getting better I think our governments are working harder I think our people and the governments are re-engineering themselves they're under pressure from the social media so they're trying hard so therefore I think the business community also should work hard Excellent, Sir Suma you had a comment on this I very much agree with that I think I'd like to make two points though one is you don't get to choose your neighborhood and unfortunately Jordan isn't a very tough neighborhood there's no doubt about that the key thing for us, people like me but also for Jordanian government and private sector and other private sector investors is to show differentiation to prove to people who don't know the region well that Jordan isn't defined by the regional conflict actually Jordan is very different it's a much more stable, good place to do business and the foreign investment numbers show that, that people do understand that when you explain it to them that's the first thing and that's why we're working with a fantastic session on Jordan and why people should invest in this country and convincing new people who don't know the region why it's different the second thing is I think also people in business, people in development we need to also help with this situation in Jordan you know it is a tough thing 20% of the Jordanian population now refugees from Syria this is huge in terms of economic and social cohesion issues and so we I think at the EBID we need to think about whether we can help through our private sector based model and trying to help integrate the refugees into the economy to give them actually some options here as well hopefully one day for when Syria is again a place where people can go back to and work but if not, while they're here to make a real contribution to the Jordanian economy as well so there's I think two things we should be doing as business and development people OK, Basim Ovedallah to share some of our past together in 2007 I think it was we had a dinner in Dubai and you were incredibly pessimistic about the region at the time you thought there was going to be trouble on the horizon and lo and behold it unfolded before our eyes three three and a half years later which of you today in terms of the amount of dislocation we're seeing and do we have to go down deeper to have further dislocation before we find a bottom and what happens to the youth unemployment in this sort of environment unhappiness more dislocation more radicalism where do we go in 2007 as now I think the issue is about youth it's about unemployment it's about economics yes the politics in the region have been very complex for many many years since at least 1948 that has not stopped Jordan from growing or other countries from growing but I think it's economics I think it's economics at the end of the day and I think that we really need to assume the responsibility all of us whether in governments or private sector or NGOs or civil society I think these are not ordinary times these are extraordinary times and they require extraordinary solutions whether we speak about Egypt or we speak about Jordan we have come out of financial distress let's face it like other countries have come out of financial distress because of the economic crisis we have come out of financial distress because of political reasons because of the regional externalities very creatively I think what needs to be done and I cannot see any other way except for a new public private cross border partnership to be built and I mean by that you need to have foreign governments included you need to have the international financial institutions included you need to have the international institutional investors both international and local and you have to have the private sector international and private involved I think there are four stakeholders in this we need to come together in order to make sure that they identify what are the projects that can be really done to look at the projects to look at the sectors what will make a difference to people this of course needs to be taken to look at the strategic strategic sectors at energy at water at urban development but they also need to look at high impact investments investments which are going to make a difference now not four years from now I don't think anybody the Jordanian people or the Egyptian people or anybody in this region are going to be happy if you actually achieve results for them four years from now they want results now I mean I know his majesty wants results tomorrow but I mean the people also they want results in the next year and you really need to actually achieve that you have to do that you have to identify what are the new industries biotech pharmaceuticals how do you harness all this youth how do you actually create out of the SMEs a real core for the economy it will not happen just by grants from GCC countries it will not happen just by government policies all the government policies are needed but the government is is good at identifying projects the private sector needs to come the international financial institutions need to come and foreign governments need to look at how this public private partnership the new paradigm model for development for the Middle East needs to be sustained that is the only way in my view that we can accelerate we can sustain and we can relaunch the economy in Jordan and elsewhere Steven John I don't I don't think we can write the chapter yet on these next five to ten years I'm not quite as optimistic we have the huge growth of young people we know that we have the second largest bubble in the world except for Sub-Saharan Africa you know we have a dwindling population in Eastern Europe a dwindling population Asia and that group is not yet formed if we don't provide the opportunity for that group to get educated and have something to look forward to we have a problem I'm confident in Jordan King Abdul and the Queen have set out great vision they got a vision plan 2025 if we can execute that with metrics and deliver for that young group of people that huge population we're on the right track but we've got to do that across the region and that can be a very very valuable group of young people or very dangerous group of young people that chapter is not yet written in this part of the world thanks for the interjection I think it'd be interesting to hear from Bahadina Hariri about where you're allocating fresh capital in this chaos you're not stopping I would imagine we're putting new capital we're going into phase 2 you see we cannot force people into investing and we see the likes of 100, 200, 300, 400 million dollar projects so if that value proposition is not here Jordan without the chaos that is surrounding it I think what has been built in Jordan in the last 15 years we have passed that critical phase where Jordan as itself its value proposition and diversity can sustain a solid growth division has made us reach that past that critical phase this is how we see now more and more investment in all the fields all the gentlemen talked about including our field and I think that will accelerate if we see stability in Iraq and Syria but I believe that the Jordanian model is solid enough today that will attract investment in all its sectors so I don't see any actually I see from my side of the equation more interest in our project quick follow up for you and then I'm going to conclude the panel the Gulf states have been very generous throughout the region we've seen their work in Egypt seen their work here in Jordan different pledges during the most critical times you were alluding to the DeVille partnership and the potential Marshall fund Basim and that has not come to fruition despite a number of different pledges the EBRD has put money on to the table but the $18-20 billion that was floated a few years ago did not come forward do we have to get ready to a new reality it's not 100 and above oil it's not $100 to $1,520 oil that we had over the last four or five years but probably $60 to $70 oil where the Gulf states can't be as generous what happens are we going to go through a really big shock of dislocation in the Gulf where they trim back budgets and these states without the big partnerships that we talked about that the proposal you put on the table don't happen at all we could be in for a second round of shock about do you want to take it first I think that the Gulf in general have done very smartly in the last 10 years the accumulated debt that we have seen before is gone we have sovereign funds that generate quite a strong amount of cash flow and the infrastructure has been built the private sector is very powerful I mean we've seen the remnants of this private sector an investment in Jordan so I believe the staying power of the GCC is there maybe they see the growth here in Jordan stronger they will be but I don't think this flow will stop maybe it will be reduced from the public sector increased from the private sector why? if we're talking about Jordan right because the oil the Arab investor wants a return the return he has seen in my sector is strong in Kuwait and everything and Saudi Arabia and the Emirates but today with the stagnation of this oil price we are talking about 60 to 70 the return is not as much as before they have made a lot of return in the Levant Lebanon and Jordan in the 60s now they're looking back again into these sectors again because they realize with these low oil prices the return is here in Jordan like Mr. Aaba said it's the return that matters here so the solidity of this return and the continuity of this return will make more the private sector looking at investing here okay very good final comments from Bassem and they will wrap up the panel very quickly if you can please two points I think the European example here is very telling when the European Union started it's actually started in 1958 with the Treaty of Rome and then you had an expansion and the rich countries actually invested in the poorer countries and helped their economies to actually graduate and to grow and to spare growth in all of these economies and then they opened up their borders for trade and for the flow of capital and for the flow of people I think here we really need to look at collective security measures I really think that when we look at the Arab countries oil producing and non oil producing rich ones and poorer ones I think there is a collective security for the Arab countries as a whole and I think that when we speak about grants we are essentially just out of political favor I think it's a collective security measure for all the Arab countries I wonder sometimes that had we had the Arab world gone through all the measures and all the had it implemented all the actual resolutions of the Arab summit when Amr Musa was there and speaking about Arab unity and collective Arab markets and the Arab free area agreements I'm not sure we would have seen the Arab spring in Tunis or anywhere else I think that the reality of the Arab world would be much much more different today I'm not sure Yemen would be today what it is had there been a serious investment in the economy of Yemen and for many many years to come so I think that when we speak about the collective Arab security we really need to look at the economic component of it but the second point I want to mention is that today we really have to think not only about governments and about grants because I remember in the economic summit that President Sisi had and Sharma Sheikh he came out and said you know if you think that $2 billion is going to help Egypt you're wrong because Egypt needs $200 to $300 billion and that's the reality Jordan needs more than $20 billion Jordan is indebted today with more than $30 billion US dollars so you really need to have an effective Marshall plan to graduate these countries out of what they are today into what you really want them to be the private sector has a nuance role I think that we cannot really just let the private sector away with getting away with this because we have a serious role I think people like Baha and people like and many others in Cisco and John Chambers have shown tremendous commitment to Jordan and the tremendous faith in Jordan's leadership and Jordan's people and Jordan's economy but I think we need to see more than that we need to look into a different paradigm all together right now there needs to be a new partnership that exists between the regional and the global private sector and governments governments have to be really far-sighted they have to be really far-sighted in how they address the private sector but also the countries the foreign governments the international financial institutions need to move beyond the conventional wisdom of the IMF and the World Bank and look at us in a different way it's high time for that Okay so as soon as your opportunity you wanted to speak and then Mr. Alibar I think Basim summed up a lot of it up I think two points one is the GCC generosity is fantastic and I think it's very very important I can see despite the oil price going one way I think the GCC countries are still very committed to the region but Basim is absolutely right but if we rely frankly on government donations government aid then this will not do the trick we have got to move to a much more private sector financed mode of development this country is trying to get its private sector going I think that's much better supported by the private sector sources of finance what I would like to see longer term Jordan and all the other EBID countries of operation is much more equity participation from the sovereign wealth funds because countries like Jordan are starved of long term capital and so one thing we in EBID want to do over the next year or so is develop an equity participation fund for all our countries of operation but particularly a place like Jordan where we are going to take more equity stakes in companies here over the next 5-10 years I'd love to see sovereign wealth funds come in with us to do that That's an interesting innovative idea No I don't have I think both have done a wonderful job I think that's exactly the way to go and that will give me optimism that I think we are going to see more and more participation I think it's going to move there will be a little bit of the donation side of it but I think just the potential of investment and large funds being invested in these economies and whatever sector you want I think it will add to growth and the will be in the economy while of course you are getting few dollars your capital and I think everybody wins and then you take care of security and employment collaboration, integration of economies I'm in full agreement Okay, nice run of applause for the panel and I have one final housekeeping gift here Thanks very much We are on time for 120 we have like a window for a 10-minute break and then there is a lunch hosted by His Majesty and the Prime Minister to announce some of the packages of the Jordan relaunch and there will be a buffet on the terrace so straight out and then down you will see the signs Thanks again for your attention and thanks for your patience here in the audience