 recording to start. Okay, the recording is on. Let's just take a moment to pray together and then we will get started. May I request somebody to please lead the class in prayer? Could someone pray please? We'll start. Go ahead, sit kind of, can pray. Sit kind of, we can't hear you. All right, I'm not sure, sit kind of praying. Can you all hear me okay? Sit kind of, we can't hear you. Or at least I can't hear you. Okay, John, can you pray please? Father, we want to thank you for this time, Lord, we submit us before your presence. We ask, O God, that you speak to us through the class today, Lord Jesus, help us to understand your scriptures in its beauty. Lord, we pray that you anoint a pastor to give you a word in its fullness. Lord, we pray that you enable us to understand your scriptures of God. We thank you in Jesus' name, we pray. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. All right, so we are in this course on interpreting scripture. We're learning various guidelines on how we should handle the scriptures, how to correctly understand the scriptures, interpret it, and then of course the goal of correctly interpreting it is so that we can correctly apply the scriptures. So the plan for today is we finish off a little bit that we were doing on the Old Testament in New Testament scripture. I'll spend some time on that, maybe just look at some examples of Old Testament in New Testament scripture and then we want to just talk a little bit about applying scripture. There's some little guidance on applying scripture. So the whole purpose for us to study the scriptures and to learn how to interpret the scriptures correctly is so that we can apply it in our lives correctly, personally, as well as we can share with others our congregations, our churches, how people can apply the word of God correctly. Then after that, we're going to go into the last chapter of this course, which is difficult topics. So what we're going to do is get into specific topics and see what the Bible has to say on that topic. Purposely, we will pick up not difficult topics. Some of it may or may not be difficult, but difficult topics in difficult passages. Example, we talk about the question is Jesus God understanding incarnation. What does it mean to be first born and first begotten? We will talk about, you know, we'll take some common passages that are difficult, like, you know, can women minister the word of God? Should women cover the head? Those kind of passages that a lot of people have arguments about and so on. So we will address certain difficult topics just as a way of saying, okay, we've learned how to interpret scripture. Now let's apply that to different passages or different topics so that we can, you know, not only understand the topic, but also basically it's like an exercise of applying these guidelines or this guidance that we have learned on interpret scripture. We applied to the scriptures to get an understanding on difficult topics. So that'll be our last chapter, which we will take up different topics and work our way through them. So let's pick up from where we paused last week. We were in this chapter. We were talking about the Old Testament in the New Testament. So what we said was that in the New Testament there are many references to Old Testament scriptures, many, many. And in most cases, you know, you could go back and say, okay, the writer in the New Testament is quoting from this place in the Old Testament. So you could do that. Now there is a little saying, which I think is very nice. I don't know who came up with this. It's been there for a long time, but the saying goes like this. It says, the New is in the Old Concealed and the Old is in the New Revealed. So I think it's a very nice statement. The New is in the Old Concealed and the Old is in the New Revealed. So it's very nice. So what's he saying? He's saying the New Testament is actually concealed in the Old Testament. It's hidden there. It's there, you know, but it's concealed. It's there. And the Old is in the New Revealed. That means the New Testament is opening up our understanding of the Old Testament. Right? So I think it's a beautiful statement whoever came up with that. But it just shows us how the Old Testament and New Testament are, you know, are, you would say, two sides of the same. They are two parts of the make up the whole. And so we should not create the Old Testament or New Testament separately. It's all Scripture. It's all God's Word. But we need to understand them together. Right? So if you want to understand the New Testament better, we need a good understanding of the Old Testament. If you want to understand the Old Testament better, you need a good understanding of the New Testament. So they go together. And so when we, when we're reading the New Testament, many writers reference the Old Testament. They point to something in the Old Testament. In fact, even the Lord Jesus, you know, after his resurrection, when he was walking down the M.E.S. road and even when he was speaking to his disciples during that 40 days, he used the Old Testament Scriptures. That was the only Scriptures they had available to show them that all these prophecies and things about himself that were spoken in the law and the prophets in the Psalms were actually fulfilled and they were speaking about him. So he just used the Old Testament. The early church, when they were preaching, they essentially used just the Old Testament Scriptures to preach about Jesus and the New Covenant. And of course, they had the teachings of Jesus, which they shared and preached to the people. So when we read the New Testament and we see references from the Old Testament, we must learn how to, you know, carefully explain truth that is referencing Old Testament. Now, how do we do that? So here are some guidance and that we will just highlight here. So whenever we we have reference in the New Testament to the Old Testament, understand the context, the New Testament context. Right? So don't just go and pick the Old Testament voice. No. Understand what is the New Testament context within which the Old Testament reference is being made. Right? So if you turn with me, the book of Romans, we will be studying the book of Romans, you know, in detail in our third year that we will go through Romans verse by verse. But in the book of Romans, almost, I would say like almost every chapter or many chapters in Romans, the Apostle Paul is quoting happily, he's quoting a lot from the Old Testament and he's using Old Testament language or Old Testament pictures in his writing. In fact, not just in Romans, but in many places, Paul's writings, but his epistle to the Romans is a great example where he keeps quoting from the Old Testament. So for example, in Romans chapter three, or so it picks up here in Romans two itself, so Romans two, he verse 24, he talks about the name of God is blasphied among the Gentiles because of you as it is Romans two 24. And just giving that as an example, you could follow with me in your Bible. So he's actually just, he's quoting from the Old Testament. But what is, he is using that script to speak to Jews or in this case, really speaking to believers, Jewish believers. So when he's writing to Rome, his audience includes Jewish believers and Gentile believers, there's a mix of them. But he's initially addressing Jewish believers to and he's trying to explain to them how God, although he chose the Jews, the people of Israel, it doesn't mean the Jews are better than those, just because they have the law doesn't make them better than those without the law. So he's building that up in Romans chapter two and Romans chapter three and he shows us how all have sinned and we all need Jesus, Jew and Gentile. So in his building up, so that's the New Testament context of Romans chapter two and three and in building up that understanding truth which Paul is bringing out, he's quoting many times from the Old Testament. So Romans two 24, Romans chapter three and was four and then Romans three, ten to eighteen is all quotations from Old Testament. But what is the context? The context is, he's trying to show his audience, that is the believers at Rome, that Jews and Gentile all have sinned, that the Jews are not better just because they have the law, all have sinned. So that's the context, so when we must keep the context in mind. Like this, you know, throughout Romans you can follow and see how many times Paul is quoting from the Old Testament, but there is a context in which he is making those references. So first one, understand what is the main idea? So when you say context, you're saying what is the main idea? What is the writer speaking about? And so every scripture has to be understood in its original context. The second thing when we are working with the Old Testament in the New Testament is go back to the Old Testament and understand what was being said then which is relevant to us in the New Testament. So we are looking at the Old Testament in which the verse was given while we are seeing the New Testament. So let's go as an example. Let's go to Matthew chapter 8, please. So I think one way to really understand it is for looking at examples that the thing is there are so many examples. So, you know, we just have to pick and choose a few. So if you go to Matthew chapter 8 and let's read verses 16 and 17, please. Could somebody read that for us? Just just giving an example. Matthew 8, 16 and 17. Could somebody read that for us? Matthew 8, 16 and 17. When even had come they brought to him many who were demon possessed and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet saying he himself took our impurities and bore our sicknesses. Okay. So here's an example in the ministry of Jesus. So Jesus, what is the context point number one? What is the New Testament context? The New Testament context where there is an Old Testament reference. So New Testament context is Jesus. It's the ministry of Jesus and he is healing the people casting out demons, all of that. And while he's doing that, the Holy Spirit is inspiring or has inspired the Gospel writer Matthew to quote and to point back to an Old Testament reference. And what is the reference? He's quoting from Isaiah chapter 53. So if we can all turn, keep your hand on Matthew 8 and you turn to Isaiah 53. And he's quoting from Isaiah 53 and verse four, the first part of verse four. So first part of verse four, Isaiah 53 is surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. But now if you go to Matthew 817, he's saying, he himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses. Isaiah, I'm just using the New King James English. The New King James is saying, Isaiah 53. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. Matthew 817 is saying, himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses. Well, it doesn't seem like it matches. It seems like it's different. But then that's where you go back and say, hey, how can these two mean the same thing? Well, what does the Hebrew words mean? So now you're doing point two, which is I need to study a little bit about the Old Testament words that is being quoted because he seems to be quoting it differently. In Matthew 817, he's talking about sickness, infirmities and sickness. In Isaiah 53. He's talking about griefs and sorrows. In English, these words all mean different. You use the word grief and sorrow. Maybe even somebody has lost a loved one. You talk about infirmities and sicknesses when you talk about physical conditions. They seem to be different in English. But when you go back to the Old Testament scripture, that is Isaiah 53. You look up the Hebrew words, then you understand that Matthew is using the Hebrew, right? What does it say there? Surely he has borne our griefs. The word grief is the word surely. I'm going to be pronouncing the Hebrew word, right? But the Hebrew word simply means sicknesses. And carried our sorrows. The word sorrows is the Hebrew word makob, which means pains. So now when Matthew is quoting Isaiah 53. From the Hebrew, it is definitely talking about infirmities and sicknesses. So the original author, that is Isaiah, actually meant sicknesses and diseases, although in the English Bible, it's translated griefs and sorrows. The original words, he was really talking about sickness and disease. That is why when Matthew quotes it in the New Testament, the context itself is bringing out the meaning. The context is about healing people and casting out demons. And he is quoting the actual Hebrew words, which is infirmities and sicknesses. Are you with me so far? Let me just stop sharing and look into the classroom. Everybody's with me so far? You're understanding it? So you see how we're just using one example. There's a quotation in the New Testament from the Old Testament. So you compare the two. And in this case, especially in the English Bible, the New Testament is giving us more light on what did the Holy Spirit mean when he was speaking through Isaiah, the original writer. So this answers the question, is physical healing in the Atonement? Now you will find big books written by theologians. Theologians means, I'm talking about people who spend a lot of time studying the Bible, et cetera. They write books saying healing, physical healing is not in the Atonement. They will write their thesis and all the big books. They will try to prove that physical healing is not in the Atonement. That means it's not in the cross. And you will hear arguments like that. But for me, just the fact that the Gospel writer, Matthew quoted from Isaiah 53, Isaiah 53 is a chapter on the Atonement. It's a chapter about the cross, a complete chapter. Just the fact that the Gospel writer, Matthew quoted Isaiah 53, in the New Testament context of what of people being healed and delivered is enough proof that there is physical healing in the Atonement. Are you understanding? Because these theologians will try to disprove that. But look, hey, the Holy Spirit is writing to the Gospel writer, Matthew and saying, Jesus physically healed people. The Matthew 8.16 is, they brought people who were demon possessed and they brought those who were sick. This is about physical healing. He physically healed people as a fulfillment or fulfilling what Isaiah spoke in the Atonement chapter. So for me, this settles it. Physical healing is in the Atonement. Physical healing is in the cross of Christ. It's there. It's a blessing of the cross. No more arguments. I'm not interested because it's, you see how the New Testament writer by the Holy Spirit is revealing or is explaining Old Testament. See, the Old is in the New Reveals. So he's revealing something from the Old Testament. So the context this year, the context is very clear. So this quotation from the Old in the New, you look at the New Testament context, it gives us more light on the Old. And then you go back to the Old. You look at it. So okay. Healing is in the Atonement. So now what we can do is when we study Isaiah 53, we can look at other places in Isaiah 53 where the same Greek words are used, where the Greek word Choli, and not sorry, the Greek word, the Hebrew word, but the Hebrew word Choli and the Hebrew word Makob is used in the chapter and interpreted the same way. That is Choli means sickness. Makob means pains, which has to do with physical ailments as well. So if you go back to verse three, you will see, I'm now in Isaiah 53. If you go back to Isaiah 53, he says a man of sorrow, that is Makob, and acquainted with grief, that is Choli. So again it's saying, when Jesus was dying on the cross, what he did for us on the cross, he bore our pains. He took upon himself our sicknesses. And you see the word used again. In verse 10, he has put him to grief. So the word is used again there. He has put him to grief, Choli. So Bb, this is verse 10. Let me just quickly look it up. I don't want to say something wrong here. Isaiah 53 in verse 10. I'm just looking up that word just to make sure it's the same Hebrew word used here for grief. He had put him to Choli. Yeah, it's Choli. It's a different word, Choli. But it also means to make sick. So this is in Isaiah 53-10. He has put him to grief. The Hebrew word is slightly different from Choli. But that word also can be, that's verse 10. The word grief in verse 10 can also be translated as sickness. And then this verse that we know in verse 5 and by his stripes we are healed. By his stripes we are healed. That means we are completely made whole. We can therefore use that to say, healing is in the atonement. Because verse 4 says, surely Isaiah 53-4, surely has borne our sickness and carried our pains. Then verse 5, the punishment for our peace was upon him. And by his stripes we are healed. So it's not just talking about healing, forgiveness of sins, healing, a spiritual healing in that sense. But he is also talking about physical healing. Because verse 4 deals with physical sickness and disease. You with me? Right? So that's one thing. One understanding. Now the second thing is this. Going back to Matthew 8, 16 and 17. So we're giving one example. Matthew 8, 16 and 17. Matthew is saying, Jesus healed people and he's fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy. But Isaiah 53 is all about the cross. It's about Christ being crucified. But in Matthew 8, Christ has not yet been crucified. That crucifixion comes later. Over in Matthew 26, 27, 28, it comes later. This is the beginning. Matthew 8 is the starting of the ministry of Jesus. Early part is crucifixion comes later, almost three years later. Isaiah 53, the full chapter is about the cross. Jesus did for us on the cross in the Atonement. But Matthew 8, the Gospel writer Matthew is saying, Jesus healed people. Jesus cast out demons to fulfill Isaiah 53, the cross. But the cross has not yet happened. So my question is, how can we understand it? How can we understand? Matthew 8, because the cross has not yet happened. It's going to happen maybe three years later when Jesus will die on the cross. So how do we understand Matthew 8? Any thoughts? Anybody wants to share your thoughts on it? It's okay if you don't know the answer already. Just what do you think? How will we understand that? I think when Matthew sees Jesus doing miracles, he would have remembered what Isaiah prophesied and tried to correlate with what Jesus is doing. Say that again, John. I'm sorry, I didn't understand. I was thinking, Matthew saw what Jesus is doing as miracles and he would have read what Isaiah has written earlier. So he tried to correlate the promise that Isaiah, Jesus would come and do this. Yeah. So, Collins, please share your thoughts. You see, Pastor, it is actually very hard to detect what Matthew thought before all these things happened. Because he's writing this gospel many years after he knew all he knows, everything that had happened in the past. Because when you look at when he wrote this gospel, it is almost 20, if not 30 years after Christ had gone to heaven. So when a human being, much as they were being helped by the Holy Spirit, it's not easy for them to separate their knowledge. Because right now he's writing much as it is chronological it is from 1 to 28. It's not easy for them to depict, to say what was not supposed to be said at this time and what is not supposed to be said at the next time. Because they already know what happened. So I think he is just using the Esther. The Esther moral principle whereby he cannot separate, he's not separating what happened earlier and what, but is mentioning him in the same context of him being our Savior and dying for our sins on the cross. Thank you so much. Very good, very good. Good, thank you. Anybody else you want to share your thoughts? So our question is, or the question I put out was Matthew 8, it's the beginning of Jesus' ministry. How could Matthew say it's fulfilling Isaiah 53? So we're trying to understand that and any thoughts on it? Okay, very good. So Collins made a very good point. So we all know that the Gospels were written much later. So the first Gospel was the Gospel of Luke. I mean, these are approximate dates, not exactly, around AD 63, then Mark, around AD 66, then Matthew, around AD 67, and then John's Gospel, which came later. So they put it around AD 85, something like that. You know, towards the end of John's, the Apostle John's life, before hero tribulation, John and then the epistles. So Colin is right in the sense that, so Jesus died on the cross, approximately AD 33, somewhere like around that, these approximate dates. So Matthew and Mark and Luke, they are writing about 30 some years after the cross. Okay, so they're looking back. And for them, Isaiah, Ministry of Jesus, Cross of Jesus, it's all happened. It's all happened, it's already over, and they are recording it. They are writing down. So in their minds, what Colin is saying is, in their minds, they may not necessarily be separating this. For them, it's all happened. It's not necessarily done. So they're just stating that Jesus fulfilled as F 53. So when Matthew says in chapter eight, that Jesus fulfilled as F 53, it is a completed truth for him, because Jesus did die on the cross. Jesus was already crucified, which is well taken. That's a good answer. But it is also interesting that Matthew was quoting this in relation to the Ministry of Jesus. So he's not quoting Matthew 817, when he's talking about the cross of Jesus. He's writing this in relation to the Ministry of Jesus, which is in the early stage. Well, it is definitely, you know, it's a very valid thing to say that all these things have already happened. And Matthew's writing much later is recording these things for us. But it's also very significant that he would quote as F 53 in relation to the Ministry of Jesus. It's very interesting. And nothing happens by accident, right? It's not an accident that it is here in chapter eight and not in chapter 26 when Matthew's writing about the cross. So what does this mean to us? First, we said that, you know, we can definitely conclude that healing and deliverance is a provision that comes through the cross of Christ. It's a very strong statement that healing is in the Atonement. But another thing that we can conclude, which I just wanted to highlight is that the Ministry of Jesus, of course, it took place before the cross. How could Jesus heal the people and forgive the sins of the people before he had paid for it? You remember, and in fact we read it in the next chapter, we read about this man whom the four friends brought and Jesus said, son, your sins are forgiven. And to other people also Jesus said, your sins are forgiven. So, but Jesus has not yet paid for the sins. He was going to die on the cross. But he healed the people and he forgave sins before the cross. So what does that teach us? It teaches us. Of course, it really emphasizes the fact that on the cross he took our sins and he removed our sicknesses and diseases. So there is healing in the Atonement. But secondly, it also teaches us that Jesus gave them a down payment. He healed them in advance. It was like an advance payment because of what he was going to do for them on the cross. It's like saying, I am going to bear your sicknesses. I am going to take away your diseases and I'm giving you an advance. I'm giving you a down payment. I'm giving you a foretaste of what I will do for you on the cross. You got it. So how could he heal them before he went to the cross? Because he was going to do it for them. He gave them a down payment. He gave them an advance for them on the cross. So now when we are on the other side of the cross, that means the cross has already happened, we are looking back at the cross. How much stronger should our both administering to people and in our receiving what he has already done? How much stronger that should be? Because we are looking back. It's no longer a down payment, but I'm receiving out of the full payment of a payment that has already been made. If the down payment, if the advance could be so good, how much better would be when the payment has been fully made? Every due has been settled. Everything has already been provided and here we are receiving out of that. Did we all understand what I was trying to get at? On what basis did Jesus heal and forgive people before the cross? He was giving them down payment. He was giving it to them in advance because he was going to go and do it for them. Any questions so far on this? Here's just an example where in the New Testament there is a quotation from the Old Testament and then you start looking at it. You look at the context of the New. It gives us some understanding. You go back into the Old. You look at that. It gives us a little bit more understanding and then we put it all together to arrive at conclusions and interpretation that we say, here's all that we can understand based on this quotation in the New Testament of a scripture from the Old Testament. Here's all that we can understand. Like this, there are many other references to the Old Testament in the New Testament. The New Testament then explains to us what the Old Testament intended. I want us to look at one more example. It is a little bit more, I would say a little bit more, maybe I would use the word maybe complicated or maybe a little bit more difficult or thought-provoking. This is in Galatians chapter 3. If you go with me please to Galatians chapter 3 and we read verses 22 to 31. Galatians chapter 3, sorry not chapter 3, Galatians chapter 4. Galatians chapter 4 verses 22 to 31. I want us to do another analysis, another passage where Paul is quoting from Old Testament. He's making reference to Old Testament incidents and so on and he quotes Old Testament scripture. But it's a little more difficult to understand so it's good for us to work on this passage. So let's read this Galatians chapter 4 verses 22 to 31. Let me type it here. Galatians 4, 22 to 31. And let us try to understand. This is one more example of Old Testament being used in the New Testament. How do we go about understanding that? Could somebody read this passage for us please. For it is written that Abraham had two sons, the one by a born woman, the other by a free woman. But he who was of the born woman was born according to the flesh and he of the free woman through promise which things are symbolic. For these are the two governments. The one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to Bontage which is Hagar. For this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is and is in bondage with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free which is the mother of us all. For it is written, rejoice O baron, you who do not wear. Break forth and shout you who are not in labor. For the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband. First I will read it to anyone. Yes, please. Now we brethren as Isaac was, our children of promise. But as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the spirit even so it is now. Nevertheless what does the scripture say? Cast out the born woman and her son for the son of the born woman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman. So then brethren we are not children of the born woman but of the free. Okay. So this is a very interesting passage and a little bit more complicated passage. Right. So let's try to understand. First of all, we need to know the context and then we need to get into the details of all the Old Testament references that Paul is making. So, you know, he's talking about Abraham, Old Testament, two sons Ishmael and Isaac again Old Testament. Then he's talking about two covenants. He's talking about Mount Sinai and Jerusalem. He's talking about Hegar and he doesn't mention the name of Sarah but he's doing a contrast just as he's contrasting Ishmael and Isaac. And so those are all the Old Testament references he's making. Along with that, he's quoting two scriptures from the Old Testament. That is verse 27 and verse 30. These are both scriptures from the Old Testament. So all these are Old Testament references. So pretty complicated. He's making so many references. You know, Abraham, Isaac, Ismael, Hegar, Sarah, Mount Sinai, Jerusalem and then two verses. All in these, in the short passage about nine verses, he's done so much. But what is the message he's trying to get to us? What is he trying to tell us? He's writing to New Testament believers. He's writing to us. So how do we understand it? So here's one example. Here's another example like, you know, there are many examples, but there's another example where Old Testament incidents, people, characters are referenced in the New Testament to teach us something. How do we understand it? How do we go about interpreting it? And what is the truth we are supposed to take from, you know, this kind of passage where the Old Testament is being used in the New Testament? Okay. So what we will do is we'll go for a break now. And after we come from the break, let us try to understand. Let us try to analyze this. How will we interpret this passage? Which has so many references to the Old Testament. And the first thing, first thing we have to do is, what is the New Testament context? Right? That's point one. So in order for me, before I jump back into the Old Testament and start talking about Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Hagar and Sarah and Mount Sinai and all that, before we jump back there, we have to say, we have to understand first thing, what is the context? That means, what is Paul redressing here in Galatians 4 and in this whole episode, what is the context? And then we have to understand the Old Testament. That means, what is he referring to? Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, all that. We have to understand that and then bring it together to see what is the truth we are to understand. And in the process, we will also understand Old Testament better. We will get New Testament revelation, but we will also get Old Testament understanding. We will understand the Old Testament better. So that's how we are going to go about it. So let's take a break and over the break time, if you want to think about it, do it. First is, we should think about what is the New Testament context. So when we come back after the break, that's the first thing we will ask. So think about it and let's discuss it when we get back. So we will be back in about 10 minutes. Thank you.