 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today we're talking to kind of the the king of Christmas drumming and he does a ton of other stuff But we're talking to Jerry Grinnelli who was played on some of the biggest Vince Garaldi hits that are from Charlie Brown's Christmas So welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Thanks for asking me man I'm excited to hear about your entire career So maybe we we talk about how you got into drumming But then obviously we'll talk a lot about cuz this is kind of a Christmas episode. We'll talk about your time Playing with the Charlie Brown stuff. So so how did you tell us about you? How did you get into drumming? I just I was And my dad was Always loved to drum so there was drums around the house my uncle Both of them were did other things my dad so both were my uncle so Was a butcher, but there was you know, we lived right across the street and I grew up in a real Italian neighborhood with all the relatives in one block and There was just always music and there was Jerry who had this gift, you know There was a lot of learning involved later, but I Just loved the instrument. I just touched it. It's the first thing I remember the first thing I remember is you know, my grandmother's kitchen just dragging out the pots and pans and Having to put them in an order. They had to be an order So I made little drum sets and I just played I just banged away But there was always some logic to it. It wasn't just like, you know kid banging I was playing I played so I just loved to do it. It was very natural for And then, you know, they just went, oh took me to a teacher when I was very young and in those days there was the National Association of rudimental drummers, you know, and I Become like a little child whiz Was in like all the contests being everybody much older than me I just you know, I love to practice the drums. I love to sit at a practice pad I still do So it just I grew up and my dad of course and my uncle made so much music available to me And I was in San Francisco want a great music capitals of American music, you know, so I just got to hear everybody and got to meet people. I got to meet gene Krupp. He spent a day with You know when I was eight years old and just so many people shelly man and gene and you know, they Were all so You know encouraging and friendly gene and I have stayed friends his whole life and then Of course that continued with the other drummers I learned from Philly Joe Jones and elvin jones and All that music was in town and I was that's all I ever wanted to do I you know, never never had a day job and got to hear All of it from louis jordan to red nickels to you know all those people and It it just it just seems it just seems really natural to me, you know Yeah, I wanted to be the greatest drummer in the world. Yeah, you're you're up there I mean you you are I mean I've listened to a lot of your stuff and a lot of amazing videos and you have a very unique style too that stands out Takes time to find your voice, you know, you steal as much as you can because that's how you learn Yeah But yeah, I mean, you know, and I realize later you don't ever nobody gets to be the greatest But you get a seat at the table and I guess if I have any pride it's Being in that tribe all my friends are the great drummers and Yeah, it's just it's uh I go from thinking of it as a life wasted to just such a blessing That's a true musician who just like that constant like Like one day you're like, oh, this is going great and the next day you're like, man, I cannot play at all Like that's just all musicians have that kind of like interior. Yeah that in your head sort of like Struggle so yeah, and I that's fundamental and If you you know, I realize now at this about to be 80 years old You know, I fell in love with the practice pad the other night And of course there was the fame and wanting to perform and all that But it always comes down to this challenge of you and the instrument. I hate not being able to do something you know I hate it and so I'll work until I can accomplish it and that's That's what keeps you going because the fame comes and goes there's money. There's fame. They remember you They don't remember you they hate your record. They love your record. You can't ride that wave No, and it all comes down to like for me it comes down to Peer group, you know, the people who know who respect you There's nothing like that Yeah, yeah, especially in our in our circle of drummers um I think it's we always talk about on the show, but it's kind of different than other instruments We're drumming drumming is kind of a family. The community is very like We love our legends like you and we we love our, um, you know the guys the stories and all that So just to have the respect of everyone is is huge Yeah, because and you know, we're the only ones who are competing because there's only one drum slot Only one drummer gets to play, you know, and so we're all competing but Those same guys we competed against we were rooting for you know And they're still your friends. I talked to billy heart You know, we're buddies. We're brothers so Yeah, it's a wonderful fraternity or To be a part of it's a wonderful tribe to be a part of Absolutely fraternity is a good way to put it because it like I mean it's this this like But I like it too because you could be I've seen it where there are guys Who are so knowledgeable about vintage drum gear and they're just oh god Passionate, but you hear them play and they're not they're not bad by any mean, but they're not viny caliuta They're not these amazing drummers But every we still love each other. You know what? I mean, it's not about how great you are. It's your passion Yeah, it's and my dad had that passion my dad That was the great passion of his life He you know, he became a really great italian Wedding drummer man You know and every night I remember him getting up from the dinner table and I try to encourage students to do this Rather than thinking about career my dad supported the family. He paid for my drum lessons But every night the man got up from the dinner table And he would vanish down to his drum set play along with records Play the drums for two hours. Wow Every night That's awesome And even when I was much much much better than him, he had no ego about saying show me how to do this That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, and people are fanatics. There used to be drum shops real drum shops That's all they did man. No guitars. Oh, yeah There still are there's still plenty of them and and it's it's obviously a different time But but you know shout out to everyone who has a drum shop You know a drum shop not not a guitar center, but um There's it's so cool Yeah, so it was yeah, it is kind of this Brother sisterhood now and yeah Yeah, I'm just delighted to be a part of it. Well, let's move forward here. So you obviously have a very esteemed career how did you get into um the the professional world leading up to um You know the the gig that is You know, you've obviously done many things but I and I also want to talk about how Once we get to the the the peanuts stuff the charlie brown stuff. It's like That's something where I think a lot of people could fall into that That world of like I don't want to be defined by this one thing but A lot of drummers don't get that one thing. So I'd love to hear that too, but let's Eat up to that. That's a whole journey Uh Yeah, I I just you know I In those times and kids can't do it now young people can't do it now I always saw it as a living, you know, so I worked polka bands man. I played strip clubs I did anything to keep earning money. I earned money from the time I was 15 years old playing in tenor bands like, you know playing in You know ballroom dancer gigs anything 20 bucks 25 bucks I was in the union so But my passion was always the jazz, you know always jasmine, which That was that's what I wanted to do. I didn't understand it. I didn't know how the hell I did it. It sounds like magic sounds like chaos but I just Always made a living, you know playing the drums and it didn't matter to me As long as I could play I'd rather play that Oh Than anything else so that wound its way to hanging out. It's a lot of hanging out in the you know african-american parts of san francisco and going to after hours clubs and vince was older than me uh But and I was studying with joe morello And I think joe is the one who kept telling vince. Hey man, you know when colin bailey left who did cast your fate There was a slot and vince gave me a shot, you know, and I went The audition was he called me and said we're going to sacramento On the weekend this we're gonna do, you know playing this club So I just went up there and said man, I'm gonna go for it and I did played way over my head and Burned him to the ground and he just said okay come on and took me on and but it was a lot of It was a lot of never It was a lot of stubbornness Because It was a rough school to go to People judged you on your plane and so I just I just was uh I just was determined really I was really determined, you know as joe morello said one time. He said you're just dumb enough to make it Uh It's funny. That's great so, you know, and I met joe and then he took me under his wing and was my mentor and lifelong friend and But he never taught me he never wasn't interested in me playing like him You know he interested he wanted me to learn his technique Which is like yoga, which is the reason I could still play now. I don't hurt myself sure, uh, but You know, it was that it sounds oversimplified when I say it but it was a lot of hanging out a lot of tears Because I wanted to play so good and I couldn't you know, I didn't know how People stopped to tell you So I kind of do the same thing now But that that got me to Vince and that was the real beginning Uh for me in terms of I was a professional jazz musician man, 1962. That's pretty pretty far out Yeah But that was your big like moment obviously there's those there's those pivotal moments of like I think there's a difference between I mean, I think if you're playing the drums and making money In any way polka bands, whatever strip clubs, you're a professional drummer But but that was just like playing with Vince seems like you're like You're your marquee Jump up, you know what I mean your big moment there. That was the shot. Yeah, that was it and I knew it And Vince taught me a lot. He taught me what it was to be a professional jazz musician To be able to play nine o'clock every night No No screwing off no copping out playing for real you'd get up in your face and That training and of course then getting heard going to new york and playing because he had a hit record You know and then critics writing about you because you had Ralph Gleason and Feather and these guys and they would start to you know drop a line here and there And that's how it People start knowing who you are and then maybe the phone rings And you're playing with somebody else So I got to play with once people discovered I was in san francisco I got to play with a lot of you know everybody who came to san francisco. They didn't have to bring a drummer Yeah, uh, so It's word of mouth, you know dying you're afraid the phone won't ring Yeah, I know that yeah, and by the time I was 30 You know, I'd been on the cover of downbeat magazine for Uh to work with charlie hayden and denny's eightland those records and You know winning the polls and all that stuff. It was fantastic But vince was the once and it was this important relationship with fred marshall the bassist And it really I can't underscore that you know and Of course when I left I didn't pay attention to that music for 40 or 50 years I didn't want to play it people wanted me to play it stupidly and I wouldn't do it Yeah, but I never and I was annoyed, you know, because I wasn't getting royalties man Everybody was making a million dollars Yeah That's but We'll back up a little bit. All right, so my my let's just like I mean obviously Calling this the the drum history christmas special. Let's and again I'm sure you had that those feelings of like like everyone does where like I know ginger baker had those feelings of like I'm not getting paid for this As much as eric clapton and stuff and it's similar to that but like all right, so Looking at that whole thing. How did And I'm sure this information is out there, but like with with vince graulty. How did he Become the the charlie brown guy. Do you know how that relationship started? It was all You know people think especially nowadays with social media people are thinking they if you big enough on social meetings Something happens, but this was all accidental It was purely lee mendelson This piece I do now every year Lots of lots of concerts thousands of people come It's called the tales of charlie brown's christmas because I and I talk and I answer these questions. Oh cool but Lee mendelson young producer had only produced one thing Um, and he had this brainstorm of doing something about charlie schultz And people don't realize it started before that. We did a we did a tv special A documentary called you're a good man charlie brown And it was just that lee Driving across the bridge in san francisco the golden gay bridge. He hears Vince graulty's music he hears the trio And the lights go off. He thinks it matches charlie schultz perfectly He you know, he just loves the lyricism. He loves the fact that it's jazz so He contacts vince, you know, he didn't even know vince lives in san francisco, man so and then charlie schultz and vince are We're the same kind of person very dark humor And charlie schultz thinks it's perfect. He loves it So that special goes nowhere cbs hates it, but they like a little animation that's in there So they come up with the idea of a christmas special And charlie and then we were shocked, you know, there was no animation. There was no music And then starts putting you know, he says we're doing this thing And we can't see it because of no video So we rehearse it and then Then its next thing is wow charlie schultz was coming to hang out at the club and with it Friends and then we're rehearsing and then we were suddenly going in the studio to record this in three hours Wow That's the length you did a record in those days Unbelievable no overdubbing and you just didn't want to be the guy to screw up Yeah, god, sure. So We were in in vince insisted that they'd be kids and not a professional choir And we do it and lee mendelson He and i got to be friends and before he passed away last year We spent time together whenever i was in california and i would tease him about having a bigger house than me You know and he just said you know if there wasn't that collection of what you take one person out of that recording date How that whole process? It wouldn't have happened And it's really true. It was the right people in the right time Uh, even including coca-cola You know coca-cola paid for the time cbs refused to put it on the air They said when they saw it they said look we hated the jazz music on the last one you showed us jazz does not There was no jazz on television especially in prime time at christmas Oh, man, and they said well coca-cola Lord bless them. Well just said well, we paid for it. So we're putting it on And uh cbs said okay because we'll put it on because it'll never be seen again Boy, were they wrong? Oh, yeah, it's so great to have that kind of monstrous corporate wrong Yeah, and then People did it. There was no hype I've seen the postcards and Half the viewing audience in the united states watched it And People wrote in and people have demanded it ever since I mean it's the largest selling Not christmas record jazz record in history It beats kind of blue every year because kind of blue doesn't have the advantage of christmas miles became a great fan of the trio Wow You know and a lot of people a lot of jazz musicians Not to their credit thought we sold vincenzo loud, you know, they were like, oh man, you know but It wasn't it wasn't it was really as good a jazz trio record as you can find out there Yeah, I mean you take away some of the like Really christmasy Songs on the the album, you know what I mean like there's some that are just like you could listen to any time of the year but People do Oh, I do too and and it's so funny because um again, I was saying I just moved to a new um House and we were walking around the neighborhood They did a thing where there's like, you know, you you put those luminary things outside and people were walking up up and down the street and There was a little I say little because they were like in grade school Some kids who had drums and a bass and a keyboard set up And they were playing um, they were playing music from that album and it was just unbelievable. It's yeah, it's it's It's it's it's far out. I mean, it's just really You know, it's in It's in the library of congress For under the american classics, you know, it's a permanent collection uh It never changed my life it never changed Any because it took time to grow, you know vince did all the specials and Then they started doing hiring other people to do them But charlie schultz said please get vince to do them again use that music. I don't like all this new music Yeah, uh, so Yeah, and I you know, I mean it's countless emails and Phone calls from drummers. How how did you play that? You know, why did you play? How did you play that? Yeah, well, let's talk about that because like before we move on to like the the aftermath and all that stuff And then the rest of your career So what was the recording? You said I know you said it was kind of a three hour No overdubs probably like a four or eight track kind of we didn't have no eight tracks So four track four track basically, you know, yeah What was the setup like and what was your what were your drums you were using and your symbols? I mean you're talking to drum nerds here. So what was that all like? I it's funny because it's a side up there now people talking about campbell I was using one of the original Campgo drum sets cool the oak lawn. Yeah Morello said hey, man, there's this guy. He's got these great drums He hooked me up, you know, I flew to la did you know did the drum? All the dream, you know behind the drums with the sticks in your hand picture and So I was one of the original so was Collin Bailey the original Endorsers of campgo and I still have I still have a bass drum I still have some set or parts of sets, you know And then with campgo and it was like, you know, I liked I was using a zildred cymbals Uh, which I still wish I still had and Joe Morello gave me one of the first prototypes of the metal snare drum that Ludwig made for him. So that's the drum calf heads And we set up like the trio, you know the drums were a little bit isolated the piano was but we could see each other Uh, and we never used those kinds of visual cues, but it was pretty much set up like recording studios at that time, you know Um, and you didn't if you made a mistake you had to You had to do it over Yeah, so different now. We were pretty much one or two takes if you listen to the record, you'll notice there's So many fadeouts because we couldn't see the video So you just played. Yeah, well, there's the fadeouts are all along hardly anything it ends abruptly You know We've been playing the music in the club. That's how we rehearsed Vince put it in And we it went pretty fast man. It went pretty fast Just maybe two or three takes of anything Wow, that's amazing And so people know while we're talking that we in case someone doesn't know this because again There's people out there who are maybe, you know, just not familiar with it Which is pretty unlikely, but it's a charlie brown Christmas. Um, is the album that we're talking about which If you put it on you're gonna hear it. I mean, I'm pretty sure everyone knows Knows the music, but I just need to say that's the album. We're talking about if you don't know that music You don't go to restaurants airports Yeah, all those but it's in every new second Yeah, and I mean literally in the world Yeah, heard it in airports in europe and asia Heard it in china. I was in china last year and uh, there it was man But it was just And it was really I can't it was really honestly played and One of the great benefits of that besides all the joy that it brought generations literally Uh, it was a lot of people's first jazz concert first jazz record And even the one i'm doing and now it's a lot of people's first jazz concert You know, yeah, and that's really Maybe a really important important fact of this You know That it that it did that it opened those doors Yeah, it's very um, uh, it's very All albeit it's it's obviously the most like cheerful and uh I would say it just feels For me when you know, you're listening to like now. It's it's the week before Christmas right now when we're doing this You have Christmas music on and it feels you know It's cool. It's great the the standard stuff, but when that comes on it just feels more like True and uh, just like more there's more musicality to it then and I love all the other christmas songs the burlives and all that stuff, but um There's something about it. I mean obviously you know that and it's almost like the recording quality and the just the Atmosphere and the sound and the kids who came in and sang there's just like something so Like they captured you guys captured like lightening in a bottle every day. We just yeah, it's real That's all I could tell you. I think that's why people could feel that heart connection and they They made it happen, you know, I'm surprised I'll go go play a concert and Somewhere and there's a thousand people I mean just sold out. It's really cool No, they're all sold out before you get there, but it's and these people are generations. I'm meeting kids little kids Who are you know, they're grandparents people bring their parents you know, so It has that quality and it was uh Vince's melodies are everything he wrote are not dark And they're really complicated. They're hard to play of your arrangements uh because they're so precise, you know and uh For a drummer Vince there was a simplicity that if you listen to all the Vince Corrali records, there's nothing that fancy on there Yeah Which is for me is a 23 year old because I could you know, I wanted to play everything I knew He taught me how to serve the music. So It's very subtle. I'd say yeah That makes it hard. Yeah Very true. Now you mentioned before about and and I'm sure it's You know, it's a part of the story about how a lot of times with drummers like I mean this is to this day one of the most um Popular albums in in history. I mean it's it's one of those some of these songs are just They're everywhere. Like you said, but what happens with drummers, which we all fall in that category listening to this is like You know, he wrote the the melody. He did all that stuff. So so when it comes to the royalties and stuff I'm sure like you said where there was you were mad about that. I mean you had to be Right. Thank you Bernard Purdy and yep like that, you know those those composers quote Who wrote those songs? They didn't write the drum parts man Totally so the musicians union never protected us There's a there's an organization called Music rights organization And they found all the money for me. So I got some big checks good But yeah, I'm pretty caught up now, but good. I think that Over the years as drummers Nobody relates to us as composers and we are composing Yes, we're composing those drum parts. We're arranging that music by the how we play it 50 ways to leave you a lover without Steve Gad's drum Hook that tune is nothing. Yeah, a perfect example It without that forget it you know, yeah But I it's part of the nature of that instrument and that's that's why at some point I Do to the inspiration of max roach and a couple of people I I started I decided I wanted to be a leader and make my own band my own music, you know Which there's not that many of us who did that So I got, you know 28 records to my credit that are mine. Wow That's awesome Yeah, it's it's a nature of the instrument It's a it's a it's an instrument that controls it has so much energy And yet Is in a serving position Yeah, and I mean, did you hit a point where like I can tell you I have a one and a half year old we in the last week We have watched the charlie brown that the you know the original You know the the christmas special that we're talking about probably three times like in the last week Did you get sick of did you not want anything to do with it? Did you not want to hear it? Did you separate yourself from it for a while? What I left I left shortly after it was done I was 24 and then I went on to Why you know and of course when you that age and you have and you're out there fighting those battles You know not playing hi-hat on two and four Uh, which really disturbed people and the things we were trying to do with the drums at that time Yeah Trying to go forward and and imply time and understand how it works and Getting to see how the drums is another voice in the band, you know I could play on chord changes as good as any horn player. They forced me to learn that and uh So I let it be and I didn't like people always bringing it up or it was kind of a And then I just wouldn't touch it and then my manager Collin McKenzie Uh slowly Slowly would say hey these people Uh, you know pbs wants to do something about Charlie Brown's christmas. So I would do the interview and then I couldn't do it because I didn't want to be at play it as a character. Sure. You know I didn't want to be like some guy in the holiday in playing Charlie Brown, you know And then a guy You know, it's like oh man, that's where it all ends up and uh, yeah pbs You know like calling me and they want to know this story and then being stopped by people who Wanted to introduce me to their grandson and I began to realize that Hey, man, you grow up. This is a great blessing in your life. Yeah, you're mature enough now to be able to Do it but I couldn't figure out how so One day at one night literally I uh, I just saw it as a piece and I call Collin. I said hey man It's going to be called Kales of Charlie Brown Christmas I had a great trio who I recorded with before and These guys could play it because every musician damn near every jazz musician I ever met grew up with this and uh I said it's going to really be for real. I'm not playing it just by road. We'll play the heads right The Scholes family was so great because they let me use uh Some clips so I have animation And the children's choir and I said it has to be a benefit for educating people for jazz great Yeah, and he said let me go with this man And all of a sudden we had 12 concerts and I said it has to be a good payday for me Of course. Yeah, you need you get what's coming to you. I mean you deserve it So I could see it as a composer and then I could do it You know and so every night it's fresh The trio plays the hell out of it And and I play you know, it's like every night I could be going out and playing with any of my avant-garde Friends because I feel that same pressure playing the drums right Yeah Has to sound a certain way No big sound systems. It has to sound like a 50 60s trio But I could see it as a composer so I could come back To it and then on the new record with jamie saft New york trio record I did jamie who's a genius young Channel player if you don't know jamie you should go out and look at jamie saft And he We play cast your faith to the wind and we he said man. We got to play christmas time is here. Please for me So we recorded it and it's brand new So I think that's your As an artist, I think you finally grow up. Yeah Well, like I said before I mean a lot of people out there. I mean I think we always hear about it where like the big band who like like Um Led Zeppelin might not want to play stairway to heaven. You know what I mean and but like People don't get that opportunity to even have That problem. That's a that's a nice problem to have. It's a very wonderful problem to have And it's very rare for for us jazz musicians to have that kind of problem Uh, yeah, and I I just really Sounds corny but at this point in my life I I I don't view it as having anything to do with me You know, it's more about the people who comment And you know so many kids and I just did something on Canadian radio some 10 year old kid His mom sent me a video of him playing Linus and Lucy They happened to live near me. So I said come by and then cbc wanted to do an interview This little kid is trying to learn this music and it's really cool, man That's great. But that's I think that's Yeah, the history of jazz and the the drumming and you know, you realize We did have some pop heroes gene krupa Cozy Cole and then, you know, morello was like huge man. Oh, yeah God So I think some of that rubbed off on me that Possibility that you could that could happen, you know Yeah, yeah, really especially in gene comes up in a lot of episodes, but just how he has he sort of The drum set and it became something else which is kind of what this album did where it transcended just music and Yeah, and obviously it's a right place right time right animation right characters Yeah, everything was like perfect. Yes. It was just one of those things I have I have no idea how it happened So I'm glad part of it now Yeah, really now um you beyond You know this obvious your like Your your masterpiece here will call it You have other tons of other work and now you've done a lot of and I've posted some videos that I think you know people have seen Probably, you know, I think uh probably about six months ago. I found really some cool videos of you I mean, it's very It's it's not Christmas music. That's for sure Very cool different unique like we said quote-unquote avant-garde kind of more um Just I would their stuff. I just wanted to play it. I mean, you know the drums You know, I just they were so fascinating. They were endless You know, I mean So, yeah, and and how they're used In the music we change that I'm proud to be a part of changing that Yeah pop records Uh, I wish you know my other hit records. I was you're right about Changing the sound because a lot of stuff you'll do is very like it's not just playing the drums the standard way it's like using things and Just experimenting. It's very I guess experimental Is the best way to kind of like put it all together but um That had to be that has to be freeing to kind of be like and I'm sure part of that Deep down you're probably still like okay. I'm not just the christmas guy. Here's some really cool different stuff, right? Yeah, at this point my greatest fear. I mean I was talking to someone it takes years to find your voice You know to find your voice in music is the greatest gift If a record comes on somebody knows it's me Because of the sound I get because of the way I phrase Things usually because I can't figure out what one is but you know, it's like That's that took years to find Took years to find it took years of of study To to listen to Kenny Clark to go back You know to thinking that actually you think you're like really have on guard and you go back and you listen to baby dodge A great drummer and Yeah, you know who was like an archetype and you listen to those guys and you go Oh my god, this was in there. He was doing that. He was playing melodically Yeah, that happens all the time now that I've seen with gear Where there's a lot of things where you'll be like, um Oh, man, there's this awesome new invention that happened and you know, things are really modern and different But then you look back at like I was looking at like a 40s gretch Catalog and there's like a hi-hat stand that has like two hi-hats connected and it's like a bar and it's like They were doing wild. It's the drums have always been out there and wild and different There were double bass drum pedals, you know, yeah Aided in the 20 in the before the 20s out of wood And uh, so the technology, I mean, I never when I was a kid I grew up with cymbals hanging off a piece of leather knows And and you couldn't even ride it You know, you had to use the hi-hat to ride things You know, you even do that at first because it was a low boy Then it became a hi-hat Got up, uh, of course. Yeah, baby dots Had one that got up to where he could play it You couldn't tune heads. It was a big deal when you had one the top head was tunable. The bottom head was still tacked on uh calf heads You know, and it's a very people forget that it's a very unique american instrument that in the electric guitar Yeah, and and We lived through When I learned to play there was only one way to learn to play rudimentally Which had no relationship to the drum set But now there's Tons of technique. I hear these drummers. I look online man, you know Don't drum clinics were Good god the things they can do are amazing. Yeah, it's it's a different world now That's for sure than what you what you were doing, but I don't think you can have one without the other I don't think there'd be let's call it chop chop city now without The very clean smooth earlier jazz stuff. It's kind of it's all just a part of the what makes drums great, you know Yeah, jazz drumming is still I mean, no The uh, I'll get too scientific the body that you acknowledge you have to have You have to understand chord change You have to know a form, you know You have to Be able to move a band Through a set of chord changes in odd time signatures I mean It's it's incredibly sophisticated It's considering it's an instrument that started out as all as a language instrument That's what it started out as as a ritual instrument Yeah, and it was a way to You know For people to communicate Yeah, exactly send messages and even with war and battles it'd be sending messages down the line and I mean, yeah Yeah, it's a wonderful Consider it was the first instrument that in voice Yeah, somebody banging on a log Uh and creating a beat that said danger You know, I'm sure that was the first one, right Of course, yeah They're gonna eat us Todd yeah run Play this beat, you know, yeah so We're really getting into drumhead stuff, but it's it's I think that's important to realize and what's being lost now as a if I could be a grumpy old guy is There's I watch people do technique, you know, but there's no music man They're not playing music. They're just It's it's uh sport Sure, that's a good way to put it. It's they've changed it into sport and Uh It's fantastic, but it it's separating it out and that's wonderful. I could never do that But And I'm not interested in that it in But then you have Vinny and you have other great Drummers in that then, you know in that form That are, you know incredible musicians Incredible musicians. Yeah, I can't think of my favorite one of my favorites is the guy with the sting Oh man, just that's there's Vinny. Who else has played with him? Uh, josh freese has played with him It's oh god. I can't remember omar hakeem. I think played with him Yeah, but the way if you listen to her copeland Yes, not here. It's the last I think it might be vinny actually Yeah, Vinny that snare drum sound where they have to put it But the way he'll he'll just play three Bells of the symbol in the right place in a song it makes the whole tune, you know, yeah Yeah, absolutely. That's genius, man Yeah, that's musicality and cleanness and I think and I always say this that I think if people are playing the drums, that's the best thing period play the drums, but But if you're if you're always playing alone Um, which I understand too like I've fallen on that again having a baby and like I I used to play in a band A bunch of different bands and then I started the podcast and had a baby and I was like Okay, now I'm just like playing alone and it's it's just a different thing But you got to do what you got to do, but it's very different When you sit down with other people and you're not like, okay, you don't go nuts all the time You that's bad for the music. It's no, you're not gonna you're not gonna work doing that You're gonna work you're gonna work Because you play for the music not for yourself and that's the problem with people, you know People send me those things and they go look at this 15 year old and he's playing along with the record He's playing along with and he's learned all the parts on that CD Right for this complicated drum part, but the person who's playing with it Didn't think up those parts They're just copying them, you know what I mean And that's sport. It's beautiful, but it's sport Yeah I did a big drum clinic somewhere. I just I could I was going out there and there's you know, all these drums and there's right in the middle of the stage is a regular old jazz drum set So the only thing I could do is I just walked out and started playing it backwards with my back to the audience It started the other way Yeah You know slowly moved around it, but I uh It's fascinating and because and drummers are more nervous than anybody else We are we love it. Oh I mean if if you're listening to this show right now, I'm sorry to tell you but you're probably a nerd and you're one of us and uh And accept it because it's yeah Yeah, and I still am like hey man. What are you doing there? How'd you do that? Give No, yeah, people don't get it who aren't drummers. They'll go like I don't know. I mean, it's like it's not a hobby. It's a it's a life It's a life choice. Yeah you're holding on to like You know k-zildred symbols. I've got a 1943 k-zildred. It's like wow, man. Cool. You know That's so cool. No people go out. What kind of symbols I go whatever they were giving me at the time so You know got 40 symbols sitting downstairs and I give them to my students and but I A lot of my don't Well, you got to keep them, but hey on that note. That's a good kind of transition here as we kind of wrap up So you teach Why don't you tell people how they can like find you how they can take lessons from you know the master himself? And uh learn more about you. How do they do that? I'm not doing the zoom lessons. They can go to Gerrygrinelli.com And that'll lead you to a thing called creative music workshop website uh, because I like I Uh, I don't like to give private drum lessons. Okay, because it I you know, I can an all honesty just bores me and It's usually a solvable problem You know, I like to help people with their hands in the morello system and on practice paths If anybody wants to learn that I can teach you that But the rest I like to teach the instrument in context. I think it's very important to teach the musical instrument in a context, you know But creative music workshop is is I is done in Halifax. There's one online from january 17th, but it really uses Improvising and I'm interested in teaching that more than a drums at this point in my life I have a few students here, but anybody who wants to write to me grinelli drums, man, you know, and I'll answer questions about it I do love to talk about it as you can tell. Oh, yeah. Well, you're in the right place and I'll spell it's j e r r y g r a n e l li dot com jerry grinelli dot com Yeah Hey at the risk of getting weird emails grinelli Drums one word is at gmail is my email and I will answer questions. I'll I do love it, you know, I mean When I when I was studying morello, I drove him anywhere he wanted to go because he was going to talk about drums all the time Yeah, I've heard we've we've had um So steve fiddick who's a great drummer did a biography episode on joe and then I've uh, yeah, yeah So I've I've heard of his and I've I've been taking lessons with one of his friends and a student of stone Barry james who's become a good friend. Um And I've heard just joe morello. So I mean he's he's the it doesn't matter again If you're a pro or an amateur you can be you know, he's he's a drumnut like all of us. Um, oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I love I love to talk about it and You know, uh, I love to teach it Sound of it I yeah, I'm a complete nerd man. I'm all in That's good. Well, I'm glad we had you on here and I should have done this at the beginning so, um I always say who kind of recommended the episode with the other morning Like I said on our probably third time in the week watching the charlie brown special. My wife said I think she was just googling and uh She recommended she was like, oh my god, you should talk to like she googled you and and I'd seen your stuff, obviously Before like I said, but and I I know you were great, but she said why don't you email Jerry Grinnelli about getting him on and talking about you know, this stuff for a christmas episode So my wife abby was the one who um, this was this was her idea. So um, we can we can all thank her for that But uh, we owe so much to our wives Yes, we do. We probably don't admit it enough. I know I don't but um That's the wives of drummers Yeah, exactly. I'm picking up an electronic set today because I moved and again having a baby. I'm trading I'm all about trading. I'm picking up a um, I traded a an old piece of audio gear that I don't use for this guy as a brand new electronic set. So I'm like it if I Playing is playing. I know it's preferred. I love the acoustic drums. I have multiple sets, but I'm like I just want to play and not wake the baby up at night Oh No, it doesn't matter. It's wonderful. You know, my mom went to every drum lesson I had When I was a young kid she could tell across the room. She'd say that paradiddle doesn't sound right You know, that's awesome. Mom That's great. Cool. Well, hey Jerry, I want to thank you for coming on the show and again people can find you at Jerry Grinnelli.com Yeah And just you're a super nice guy. So I'm sure people will reach out and just want to talk to you and And see your schedule and hopefully and check out videos, which I'll be sharing and I'll post Jerry's website in the kind of description of this episode. So again, um, Jerry Thank you so much for taking the time to be here. Thank you for doing this. I mean, thank you for having the podcast and There's some great stuff up there. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jerry If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast