 forward to the cloud. I thought they had all these scripts here. And I can't find that one about here it is. Okay, pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law general law 30 a section 18 this meeting of the Board of Health is being conducted via remote participation. During the public discussion time members of the public audience who are dialing in by phone should press star nine to raise their hand to speak. If anyone is using a computer or tablet, you should click on the raise hand button at the bottom of your screen to let the chair know that you want to speak. Please meet your computers to cut down on background noise, you can unmute when you have been identified by the chair as having raised your hand. I will now conduct a roll call to check and make sure committee members and the director of the health department's video and audio devices are working properly. Okay, so Steve George here. John Tobiason here. Tim Radier here. Maureen Malay here. Nancy Gilbert here. Okay, so we were opening this special meeting on my little paper here. The housing code variance hearing Susan Karoo rice of 121 North Pleasant Street, the Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst request the variance of 410.150 washbasin toilets tubs and showers. Okay, so we are having this meeting and we all received. Kevin and Susan's work. Do you all get that. Yes. Okay. Okay, so the hearing will begin is Rob more in Ed is here. Representing inspection service. Okay. Hi Ed. Hi. So we have this variance about showers. Kevin, do you want to present your request. Sure. And thank you for for having the special hearing for us. We really appreciate it. And Susan Rice may be also on the call and unfortunately with this zoom type of meeting I never know who else is on the call other than you folks. Maybe that's intentional. I don't know. But the way it's designed. I don't know. So I don't know Susan Rice might be on the call. Can you tell Jen. There's another phone number and they're unmuted if they want to talk. Okay, well that could be anybody. Okay, so you got my email then about I consulted with live live Wyatt of Q and riddle and you know she as she pointed out there's no place in the upper level of the Unitary meeting house to actually construct showers. So What we're asking for is a variance and we've spoken with the people at the Baptist church and they're willing to let us use the showers. There were three showers there, two of which are accessible to people in wheelchairs. And they're willing to let us use them if we need them. And I've informed them that you know meanwhile we're working with the town and there's a possibility we've spoken with fire chief Tim Nelson about getting a Mima trailer. And I think that I think that we're probably eligible for one is just a question of finding one in an era of COVID, you know so And then there are other options that the town is exploring in terms of sites that could include showers. So we're so we haven't necessarily worked up a man, the management plan yet As to what hours and how often but the Baptist church is pretty much with the exception of Wednesday there are pretty much open Every day Wednesday they have a food pantry that operates from two to four. So we have to work around that but other than that the Baptist church showers are there and that's what we've used for the last 11 years almost To help people bathe who were staying at the at the Baptist church. So the only difference now is that people would walk over here to take a shower and we would we would staff it with problem with two people For the whatever designated shower times there are hopefully have covered everything I don't know. Thank you, Tim. Do other board members have questions when you say walk Kevin. So you're walking from the Unitarian Church up in 100 block to the first Baptist church at 400 block 400 block. Yeah. Those who are mobility impaired, we will, you know, bring them in a car, but we don't have any agency vehicle to transport people. Maybe we can see if there's a town vehicle. I don't know, but we don't have one. Is that feasible in the middle of winter. Yeah, pretty much because people are going to be out and about, you know, even though these are 24 hour sheltering operations, they're still going to, no one's going to want to stay in their room all day. So I'd want to when the sun is out, you know, and we would encourage them to. In fact, we are also considering closing from 12, from 12 to two so that people could go to the survival center and get a meal. And then we'll use that time to clean the facility at the at the Unitarian house. You know, I mean, if it's a snow day, we wouldn't do that. But if it's a ordinary day, you could do that if it's raining, we probably wouldn't do it either. But on those days when the weather is good, we would just ask people to clear the clear the room so that we can clean it, mop the floors, clean the toilets, all that kind of thing. I mean, during the shifts we'll be doing the high touch surfaces anyway with with the Clorox leak solution, you know, by percent, I believe, and but this is this, you know, the daily cleaning of the sleeping area and the toilets. Well, the kitchen will be cleaned by the kitchen crew on an ongoing basis anyway. So hopefully, hopefully that's enough information but I don't know you asked me if you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Well, one point that was brought up by the building inspector was, you know, we have to give a specific variance, you know, we want to cooperate as much as possible, we have to have some specific variance. If you give the variance for the showers at the First Baptist Church, how will that work if you then have a trailer or something else? I guess what Rob was saying is that we should define what the parameters are like, how many showers and what hours they would be available, or else we're going to have to meet whenever you have a change. Well, that might be, that might be preferable because anyway, we hadn't had this meeting yet and so we haven't gotten down to that level of granular detail but, B, we've got to submit a management plan to the code enforcement as well as the health department before we can begin. So we were anticipating we would do that then. And then C, we are hoping that the town manager and his staff are going to be able to find or identify or the chief is going to be able to identify a trailer, which would be preferable to use because then we could get it, you know, we could have more hours available to the people rather than specific hours at the Baptist Church. So we don't have, I guess I didn't understand that you needed that level of detail. I don't think I understood that you needed to know where the showers are going to be as opposed to are you going to waive the requirement at this particular site. So maybe it's a two step process, maybe if you would like we would come back. If we can get the waiver and then sorry, the easement, whatever you call it, what do you call it? The waiver, yeah, the waiver or variance, yeah, variance, yeah. So grant the variance we'd be happy to come back and report in check with the chair or the health department director to let you know when the final detail is going to be using. I mean, we're not going to overlook having a shower, that makes no sense. Sure, sure. Maybe we should hear from Ed about what about the degree of specificity Ed, do you think we can grant a blanket variance or like? I think that you probably can and if we could include any information at this point, then we should. You know, like if it's going to be, if the plan at this point is going to be at the church, the Baptist church, then we should include that. Right. Go ahead. We do have permission from the Baptist church so we can leave it at that. And then we put something like we, we issues variance and the showers will use at the first Baptist church according to the management plan submitted to the town. Right, which will be submitted, yeah. And they'll submit it for opening. Right. Or submitted prior to opening. There's email. You know, is there some language we can use that mentions the first Baptist church but also is broad enough to cover another appropriate alternative without meeting again because I don't think the reasoning is any differences. The place doesn't have showers so you want to give them a variance to meet this need that we'd otherwise aren't people and have them have a shelter which we want them to have. And this meets that need but be great to have wording in my mind that covered the situation brought brought beyond the first Baptist church because we don't need to really discuss that. To me, the variance is that the facility doesn't have showers. Before and then second secondary is what they're doing foreshowers, which isn't about the facility it's about the needs of the people so I'm trying to see the difference. It seemed like we should be able to have some words that would work for both first Baptist church and beyond. I think it seems to think we can and I think Rob did in his email, right. Yeah. Did Rob mention putting a time period to it. I mean, at least for the season anyway. Well, we're only at the Unitarian meeting house until April, sorry May 1, unless they choose to remain closed, depending on what happens with COVID. So if they do, then we would have the option of renewing but I can't imagine that going past September. Well, actually, who knows what's going to happen in this pandemic. It's my first I don't know how they're supposed to go. You know, who knows with them are staying a hot spot now. Who knows how bad it's going to get so as long as they're closed. They're, they're happy to let us use the facility. There should be a date though. Well, yeah, the release that was signed with them is May 1. May 1. Yeah. And then that's what our variants should be through. Yeah. It would make sense. Yeah, sure. Tim or Maureen, do you have any comments? Oh, I was just wondering in the email from was it Rob, they looked like they was looking for more specificity about transportation hours, etc. And that seemed to make it harder to kind of have a. Plan now and a plan for something totally different later. So I don't know how specific this is this variance needs to be in terms of specifying the information about the alternate options for showers. I kind of get John's point about this is about, we know this building doesn't have showers but we can still use it for a shelter. And how much it needs to be documented about the alternate option. I have no idea. Yeah, that's Well, particularly since code enforcement and the health department are going to get this management plan from us and we can't start until we get a CO from code enforcement. And this could be there. Rob's interested and he's going to want to know, he's going to want to see it in our management plan so I'm guessing that it doesn't necessarily have to be addressed here but if Rob feels otherwise I, you know, he's the code enforcement not me. What Kevin you said you hadn't thought this through completely but I don't think we need it in our variance but I'm curious what, what would you envision to be the usage of the showers by folks are using the shelter what what might happen. We would probably set up a time like two to four every afternoon except Wednesday because that's when the food pantry operates and there's no way we can cross over there. And so two to four every day, probably I don't know about Sunday but two to four every day. Okay, so it'd be a set period of time where you would help people you make use of those facilities. Right, because we'd have to staff it we can't let people give them the church key although many of them have their own. Yeah. Church case. Yeah. All right, so I think that's a bit more detail. And you've mentioned transportation is by foot most likely unless people can't manage and personally carry them in our own car, both the director of operations and myself we are covered in our director of administration we're covered by our insurance policy to transport but it's not our policy to normally do that, just that whole problem. But is someone who is stuck, we do, we will do it. We just don't have a company vehicle to do it in. I'm going to explain, you know, this is the whole thing about this management plan is new that wasn't mentioned in the document so could you explain what that is so so you're going to get from the Craig stores staff a management plan and you have to agree. Before they can do anything is that right. The management plan usually includes how the managers of whatever kind of an establishment is applying for permit are going to deal with reasonable and emergency situations. And, you know, who's going to maintain the building who's going to. In the case of a lot of businesses say who does their trash pick up because they're cleaning restaurants we want to know who cleans grease traps and stuff like that. So it's, we want to see evidence that active local management is dealing with the reasonable needs of an establishment whatever type it is. The variance is one thing in the management plan is second. We don't need the management plan to give the variance, do we know the management plan is part of what we will have in hand before we give the certificate of occupancy say for the program. So if we give the variance we don't have to include any of that in the variance. No, we, we won't. Yes, that's right. We just say we grant the variance, and then you take over with the management plan. Yes, is that correct. Yeah. And then if there was a need to change I say to go to a trailer there would be another management plan presumably a little end up by that time hopefully we'll know where the showers are going to be. We're hoping to have this wrapped up by next week this whole shower thing. But things sometimes take longer than you think you know so we're hoping to find a change in the middle of the season from one to the other. No, we hope to be able to maintain wherever we finally that'll be the place. Yeah. But the reason that we left about to search because it was small and we don't want to now go back and reopen but the pastor I personally spoken in these okay with it if we have to use those showers. But we kind of have an unofficial agreement like let's try and figure out, where else can we do it first and and closer to you would be good as well. Sure, sure, sure. Maybe we can have language is something like with the understanding that Craig's door we were granting a variance for having showers at this at the you location for the shelter with the understanding that Craig's doors has options to provide for having capability for users, you know users of the facility, including the first Baptist church and and other options being investigated, and that showers will be accept access at a at a predetermined schedule and staffed by Craig stores I think just pretty broad but yeah, but that covers the covers the basis right where we're granting this variance with knowledge. And we're I think it's a good question. Ed, can I ask you a question. Of course, when a variance is granted what is the wording in the variance. I think today for a couple of simple ones from the file and I shared those with Jen. Basically, it says that the Board of Health, after consideration at the meeting on October 15 decided to grant your variance and then from what specifically and your responsibility is specifically this part of the sanitary code that concerns with showers. Okay, and the management plan going back to that that has to do with with a license that inspections is granted. So we don't have to include we don't have to include any of that in the variance. No, I would just cite the specific section from the sanitary code. Or 10.15 washbasins toilets tubs and showers. Yes. So we just have to say, okay, got it. Yeah, and it's specifically section B and C, specify how many showers for the need occupants of rooming houses. And also see concerns, the shower facilities being located with accessible from within the building. Okay. And that should have a time period. Yeah, our contracts. So the condition, would it be difficult to say you grant this variance subject to, or do you just say for a period of time or subject to a condition of time or what's typical. I would put a period of time to it. The first case. Until May 1. Yeah, November 1 to May. So you mentioned some condition that it's subject to review by, you know, building inspector or someone, you know, but I think it's understood that they have to get the, they have to get that sign off anyway, right. Okay. And that's the management plan that's acceptable and they walk through as well they come in. Ready. Yeah. As does there, there are existing inspections for the two buildings already. For their, their everyday purposes. Yeah, yeah. And we will specifically be looking to Kevin and his crew for the details that concerned their operation within those buildings. Right. In Bob's email, he did suggest that we might want to specify the number of fixtures and the proximity to the shelter location. Is there, I heard you mentioned eight per how many for eight residents. So I didn't know if we, you know, saying that this would cover other options as well as the first Baptist church. So I don't know if that needs to be specified. The code specifically is looking for no less than one shower per eight occupants. So I think if the plan is for 16, then we're looking for no less than two showers available to 16 occupants. That's the ratio that has to be met. And then the section C, we would just be setting aside as they would not be accessible from the building. That's the base of operations for this year. It's really only this so called section C that is of any concern to us right now. Right. Yeah. B is about the B says provide showers. What's it? What's B is providing showers. I guess what's the difference between B and C. B is how many showers are to be provided. Okay. And see that they are within the same building. Well, I think we grant a variance to see, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's it and assume compliance through the occupancy permit with, with it otherwise with all the other provisions of the code. Through the management plan that Kevin will, that Craig source will submit. But I think the variance has to include B and C, correct? Because in that building. We can't. Well, I, yeah, I'm not, I don't have the code in front of me. I'm not reading the wording of B. I can read B if you want me to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And what's it under? It's under something called. It's 410.1. Five zero. Then a colon. Wash basins, comma, toilets, tubs and showers. B says for no more than eight. Eight occupants of rooming units and rooming houses. Who are not otherwise provided with these facilities. In a room not used for living, sleeping, cooking, or eating purposes. In the same room as the toilet and wash basin. Or in another room, not used for living, sleeping, cooking or eating purposes. And which affords privacy to a person. So that's the ratio. One shower per eight occupants. Does, and B. Does it include the words that it, that either state or imply that that's ratio. Is about being inside the building or is it not even. That not part, not even mentioned. It's section C that refers to. Location accessible from within the building. Sounds like it's really is C that we're granted. Yeah. Yeah. Does someone want to make a motion? Some words together. That's it. Put the words together. John, John, practically you John got a good start on it before. So you remember what you said, say it again. What would I move? I would. Move. I don't have the right numbers, but I would move that the board of health grant variance to Craig's doors incorporated. To provision. Like, you know, the engine part C of the state. Yeah. Regarding providing. Indoor showers at the. At the Unitarian Universalist Church. Can I. And this variance. Is in effect from until May 1st. 2021. And had originally said, can we do original. The beginning that you said the Amherst board of health. Yes. Our October. 15. 15. A hearing. On the variance. 410.105. Wash, base, and toilet tubs and showers. Section B and section C. Just say. Just say. It is section 150. Right. Part C. And we grant this variance from. November 1st to May 1st, 2010. Right. 21. I mean, 2021. 2021. 2022, 2021. Oh, man. My head. Just one point. I think the petitioner is Susan Karoo Rice as the president of the Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst. And they, you know, like when the CO is issued, it's going to be issued to the society. Okay. Okay. Got it. So we're granting the variance to. You. You. Hey. Okay. You use society. You see it. Use this. For this. Part of the state sanitary code for this period of time. For in order, I would say it would be useful to say in order to accommodate use of the. The church facilities for. The public shelter. It seems to make sense to me to mention why we're doing it. And you could even say something like the board understands that. That shower facilities will appropriate. Shower facilities will be provided elsewhere. We may not even need to say that. So. Probably better not to say it. To say as little as we need to. Yeah, it's going to take care of it. Don't worry. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Kevin, I would suggest that when you pull together the management plan or just, you know, if you're using the one from last year, say specifically address the shower. Provision, you know, that it will be, you know, no less than one for eight occupants. And any details that you know at that point. And then we'll start with the one that we have. We have many different ones. We have one. We have two different people because we have to submit the management plan. And then they have to tell us what's authorized. There was some dispute, not dispute, but there was some question. On the part of live because if she uses dormitory as the standard, then there's a. Need to have separate. But, but. Male and female, which they are not now, they're unisex. there's a six to one ratio for women and a eight to one ratio for men I guess that would be written someone who wrote that must have been anticipating a concert where all the women are lined up next to the men's room saying please could you please let us know I don't know how that's going to play out so we'll either have 14 or 16 depending on what is finally decided by okay code enforcement oh thank you okay John do you want to read I'm not reading anything Steve's been one right now I will I will try okay so the the the motion is to grant a variance to the state sanitary code section 410.150 section C to the Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst regarding providing indoor showers at the University Unitarian Universalist Church what was the first what was the first half you got the variance to grant a variance to the state code with all those numbers to the Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst and I would then say to maybe to it to I was gonna say to facilitate to enable to allow the use to support to support to support the use of the UUSA facility by Craig's doors whatever the right words are described the shelter this and then you can say this very we're getting a variance from that but maybe you want to say something about what the variance you mentioned the section but use some words to describe what we were giving a variance for right I think so it's we're giving a variance so you might another way to look at it would be we would give a variance to the requirement for provision of indoor showers as specified in state code you know whatever right we're giving a variance to that requirement to it to support use of the facility something like that somehow you want to get the code the date the time frame and why we're doing it well if I understand you're very you're giving or granting a variance if you vote to do so for CMR 410-1.150 section C yes right we know that yeah we got that part it's a question of some words to describe what we're what we're what that variance is I mean it's not necessary I guess anybody can read the variance but we're so it could be as blunt as that I think it's simpler the better and we give that variance to the UU for them to support Craig's doors a home association for the months of November 1st 2020 to May 1st 2021 amen I think we have a public function here you know if somebody is going to say well why can't I get this variance then or something like that I think there's some degree of specificity as to what this is is useful because otherwise people are just going to say what are they doing why are they why can't some motel or something do it so just some degree of specificity is I think let's go back and what's necessary you're the building code person what's necessary I think you're pretty well captured it yes I think you pretty well captured it if you say where when you know why and you might say that this is a you know temporary or this is I guess saying November 1st to May 1st indicates that this is a period of time but this is a strictly a temporary issue and this is a variance which you know we we inspect to the code we do not have any interest in inspecting to a series of variances you know this is the exception to the rule right right right so how specific do we need to have this and I I think we want the address you know the the owner of that address mentioned the time period the section of code and the program that's using it okay I think all of those things capture it okay and then we will through the management plan we'll make sure that only an appropriate solution she has accepted yeah or they are yearly licensed totally so we don't have to specify that we would only allow this variance if they had another option for a showering that there would they would provide those services on another site you don't have to say that I don't think so because I won't get an occupancy permit unless they do occupancy their plan they won't get it so I guess I would to me it should be maybe two sentences Steve I don't know one one that we're granting a variance to the right name and association right I move that the Amherst Board of Health on October 15th 2020 something whatever we're gonna get the date in a grant of variance to the section to the right entity right we're grant UUA whatever to the section of the from the from the section variances from this yeah variance from the code and then maybe in that you get the details of the code which requires indoor shower facility right because it's a code you stating those numbers and that code requires on site indoor shower on site whatever the words are we can take words right from it I don't know if it's on-site or indoors or within the building or is something like that what we should use the words from that section there was a short sentence right and what did it say right yeah it's shall be accessible from within the building that's the main thing okay so you can say from variance of that section requiring showers to be accessible from requiring showers be accessible within the building period and and then say this this something about the variance is granted pursuant or something to the use of the UU whatever sleep by Craig's door for for the period right and first you can put in the time period in the second sentence the variance is granted from date to date to support pursuant to whatever word you wanted the use of the facility by Craig's doors something like that does that make sense to divide those two yep it's hard to be wordsmithing by committee over zoom it's very bad very very right I'm getting it but why don't we pass the the sense of it and then we should be able to wordsmith it Jennifer and Steve or something I don't know let me let me just give you this I think we've got it I think this is it okay so the motion is to grant a variance to the Unitarian Universalist Society of Amherst from the state sanitary code all those numbers sex to see which requires showers accessible from within the building the variance is granted from November 1 to 2020 to May 1 2021 to support the use of the universal Unitarian Universalist Church by Craig doors incorporate sounds good and just add 121 North Pleasant Street get the UU yeah okay and it's it's Craig's doors dash a home association incorporated that's their formal title right yeah and just it's a small detail but the Unitarians don't refer themselves as a church this society yes good yeah because they have members of this USA Universalist Society yeah we have the words correct from the email from Susan Rice her her signatory on that you use society okay does someone make a wonderful motion that is the motion I'm gonna write it up immediately right after an email to everybody to give you a chance just in case there's some problem but I think I've got it and I'll instantly send it okay who's gonna second it second it already who made the motion Steve made okay okay so we'll have a roll call vote on accepting this motion for the variance Maureen I Steve I Tim I John I Nancy I okay it's unanimous it's past okay all your work okay all right so still there you have other things to ask me no we're good we're having a special meeting on our behalf you're welcome you're hosting yeah stop recording all set thank you thank you all thank you very much and okay thank you thank you all stop recording