 Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. Yes, good afternoon. Welcome to the new era for energy politics. My name is Tianwei. I'm a moderator and host of a CGT and China Global Television Network. But I'm not the main characters here. They are here. The reason we are talking about a new era, it's because we know there are dramatic changes that is going on right now. Meanwhile, we also know in a new era people get concerned, worried, but people also get excited because there are both challenges and opportunities. So what we have is a group of wise men and women, shall I say, coming from different areas of energy. And they're here to help us understand what exactly is going on and what is going to be our new map and our new solutions. So without further ado, let me introduce the five of them. From there, we have Dr. Fatih Beirol, who is the Executive Director of the International Energy Agency. Welcome. Over there, we have Mr. Ian Khan, who is the Group Chief Executive of Santrica from the United Kingdom. Welcome, as well. On my right hand, Mr. Gao Jifan, coming from China, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Trina Solar, from China. On my left side, immediate. His Excellency, Dr. Mohammed Saleh El-Sadah, who is the Minister of Energy and Industry from Qatar. Welcome. Last, but certainly not least, co-chair of the World Economic Forum for the year 2018 and also a wonderful businesswoman, Ms. Isabel Kosher, who is the Chief Executive Officer of ENGIE, coming originally from France. OK, we got five of them. I don't need to talk a lot. So let's start with a very general question, but really insightful question, as well. What exactly is going on? What do you think is the most profound changes that is happening right now? Shall I go to you, Mr. Barol? As you wish. Shall I start? Yeah. Brief, concise, and precise. That's a great example for the other panelists. Both concise and precise at the same time. OK. There we go. Very good. So OK, when we look at the energy markets, we see, of course, I'm sure we all agree, a lot of changes. But I believe four of them are extremely important, and they have the transformational character, which we may call upheavals of our energy industry. And they are coming big, and they are coming very quick. What are those four upheavals? Number one, the United States said to become the undisputed leader of oil and gas for many years as a result of the Shale Revolution. It is huge implications for the oil and gas prices. Energy security for exporting countries, for importing countries, this is number one. Yes, shale oil, shale gas coming in big time. Number two, renewable energies, especially solar power, it is becoming the cheapest source of electricity generation in many countries and is competing with traditional fuels for the next power plants to build. And it is not only in the so-called industrious countries, but also in emerging countries such as China and India. It's number two. Number three, China, the largest energy consumer of the world. China is changing its energy policies, economic policies, which has been summarized by President Xi in the latest Communist Party Congress under the motto of making the skies of China blue again, so China is pushing in the direction of this time clean energy and natural gas, unlike what we have seen. The sky is not the blue, the mood. So this is number three, China changing policies. And fourth, electricity consumption is growing much faster than the energy consumption. So therefore, our energy world is being electrified as a result of new drivers such as cooling needs, such as electric vehicles, such as digitalization. So these are the four upheavals I see, which is transformational nature and no country, but no country is immune to these changes and their implications. No country is immune. So you specifically mentioned several countries, China, the United States, and those in the Middle East. About that point, I want to come to you, Minister Alsada. What about those changes to you and your country? As you know, the world needs more power and more energy. Now, I think Dr. Perot can bear me out here. By with all the efficiencies introduced through technologies, the world will still need something like 30% more energy by 2040. Now, that 30% plus the base, which is required today, there will be shift in that percentage, if you like, in that distribution of the pie itself of the energy mix. How that will happen? In my view, it will happen in a gradual way rather than just a sudden shift. And but reality also shows us that the pie is going to be a little different with time, obviously. But all sorts of energy is required. Let me give you an example. Ever since humanity started their, if you like, consumption of energy, they started with the most primitive biomass. Biomass is still there. So humanity added different types of energy, but never subtracted. Never one became obsolete. And I think I will give example on the hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbons will still be needed. And fossil fuels will still form more than three quarters of the energy mix by 2040. Mr. Minister, you already started by talking about the start of the human being. That gradual, that process? The process actually is certainly accelerated. But the percentage, if you like, change will not, in my view, be as dramatic as many would imagine. But it will take its time. The world now is 7.4 or so billion. The population, by 2040, they may exceed 9 billion inhabitants on the Earth. But one important aspect of the demand is the standard of living. Standard of living introduced over the past few decades have increased the consumption of energy per capita in an exponential manner. All right. Mr. Minister is arguing we are going to be relevant for a long time to go. That is exactly what you are saying. Let's go to Mr. Kham. Is it? First of all, we are in a major transition. Energy, we spend $7 trillion a year on energy. That's 10% of global GDP. And there have been major shifts before, from wood to coal, from coal to oil and gas. Now we're in another one, towards zero carbon and renewables. And we're trying to do it in 50 years. Very challenging. Second point, there are some really clear trends emerging in my view. When you say we, meaning? We, the world, if you look at all of the commentary, we're trying to make major change by 2040, 2050. There are some clear trends that have been driven by the goal of mitigating climate change. The first one is that the energy system is becoming more distributed. The second one is customers, as a result, are becoming more powerful. And thirdly, the whole thing is being accelerated by digitization. Now what does this mean? I think our topic today is the politics. Customers are becoming more powerful. Suppliers close to the customer are making more money out of new products and services. The power of producers will gradually have to share influence with the customer. And there are signs which we can come back to that this change is accelerating. And new technologies are emerging, which are going to make the system very different, like blockchain. And governments and regulators are struggling to keep up. So what do I conclude? The shift to a lower carbon world and a more distributed energy system is unstoppable. And the politics of energy are very much on the move. Oh, really? OK. How much is it on the move, Miss Koucher? It is really a new era. I fully share that. I believe that we all share that in fact. That's no longer a debate, which is interesting in itself. It was not the case only a few years ago. As a business leader, I like to witness the fact that, in my view, that's not, first of all, a technological disruption. That's a disruption in mindset, which is, in my view, the most powerful as a disruption. And it's a stronger oneness. And in my view, climate change played a big role as a kind of wake-up call. But when we look at the model of growth we have today, it's not sustainable more broadly. It's not only a question of climate. We all are aware here that, in average, we burn one and a half planet per year. And unfortunately, we have only one. So it's not sustainable. It's not inclusive. It's not inspiring. So stronger oneness and strong impatience. And what happened over the last years, I believe, is, first of all, the fact that people, they want to invent something new as a model of development that would reconcile, reconcile economic growth and common goods, to say that this way. They refuse to choose. And second, it's true also within our own companies. Civil society is in our companies. And it's important that, because it gives us the ability to change effectively. Not easy to change big companies. NG is a company. Central Asia is a big company, too, with a presence in 70 countries, 155,000 people. The ability we have to change fast is because we have the same civil society in our own companies. Second point, it's clear that we saw, over the last decade, new technologies coming that effectively allow to reconcile. That's no longer an arbitrage between value creation and common goods. We can do the same, the two at the same time. That's a reality today. We have renewable technologies that are no on par with the full size in a lot of regions. And that's a reality today. So my view is even that as a company, when we decide to become a purpose-driven company, we get a premium. At NG, I believe that I can say that it is already a reality. We get a premium from our colleagues, our staffs, with an increased engagement, an increased efficiency. We get a premium from our clients. We decided to exit from 20% of our activities and to focus on exactly energy transition. And we have a growth, which is far above the GDP growth and the premium from our investors. So there is a way now, and that's new, there is a way to effectively reconcile. And finally, my convictions is that it is not a choice. There is no winning company in the losing world. There is certainly a will, and there is certainly already a way according to you. Let's go to Mr. Gao. You mentioned about new technology, the solar panel, and things. Mr. Gao, in China, become one of the largest coming from that country. What do you make of these ladies and gentlemen's comments? And what is the so-called challenges and the pain and the point that we can develop from there, Mr. Gao, to you? Today, it is indeed a new era. Because of new technologies and new mindset and policies, three factors together, we are witnessing transformation, unprecedented transformation. I think there's four factors. First of all, solar energy will perhaps grow at a speed unimaginable by most people. When I set up the company, solar energy was 20 times more expensive than today. And only 1% of the scale today, less than 1 gigawatt last year, there were more than 100 gigawatts installation already. The second thing is storage, distributed storage technology. It will grow very fast in the next 20 years. Perhaps people are still discussing and perhaps not imagining it yet, but it will happen. The reason is that energy is now being driven by technology. Thirdly, the use of energy will change, too. For example, electrical cars will mean the mobile power usage will become a new trend. So distributed solar energy and the storage of energy and usage will become a distributed pattern with smart grid as its support. And also the technology in the internet of things and artificial intelligence together will mean the generation usage and storage of power, we call it the internet of energy. And we are moving in that direction as a company, too. This transformation is rather like 20 years ago when telecommunication revolution started. And that revolution had a major impact on us. Mr. Gao mentioned a lot of different directions. And they are different directions. The question is, which direction should we drag on? What is the direction that we should develop to? Can we grasp all these facts all at the same time when it comes to your perspective? Let's go to you, Mr. Kahn. So I'd like to pick up on something that Mr. Gao said, because this march of technology driving the change in energy is similar to what it used to be. And that technology led many changes that the arrival of the internal combustion engine. But what is different is these technological changes are highly distributed. Everyone can connect to them because the world is completely interconnected. And as a result, they are accelerating very fast. The danger in trying to change the energy system faster than technology learning curves can improve, such as the one Mr. Gao said, is that it's very expensive. And so there is a tension between politicians trying to drive the energy change so fast that it's extremely expensive. And one of the worst examples of this is Germany with the energy vendor, the energy change. But if we harness the accelerating technological pathways, this change will accelerate more and more. So we've got to get the balance right of trying to push it really hard, but harnessing the benefits of technological learning. Really, Ms. Kulture? I mean, it seems that the worry is not just about whether the system is taking the lead before the technology catches up. But rather the other way around, the technology is already there. When is the system going to catch up? I would say that the first generation of technology is already there. We've got a lot of examples over the last minutes. But that's just the beginning. The more we push renewables in the systems, the more we will need efficient storage. And we all know here that economically speaking, it's still too expensive. So typically here, we still have barriers to overcome. So that's a transitional approach, step by step. The way we have decided to master it as a company is very, very simple at the end. We decided to exit fully from technologies that can be replaced by efficient ones, clean and efficient ones. And there are a lot already. These technologies, we develop them large scale, really industrially large scale, a 15 billion euros investment over three years. At the same time, I believe that's key, we increase significantly massively, in fact, the effort in new technologies to prepare the new wave because there will be others in distributed storage, even in PV technology, the organic PV technology that's still too expensive, three times too expensive. So we are not yet there. But it is key for the future. So we try to manage that a very orchestrated way, phase by phase. I believe that's exactly the same for countries, by the way, what we see in a lot of countries in the world is exactly the same kind of thing. A phase by phase approach, extremely determined, very deeply managed from a timing point of view. Who is leading the wave? Who is lagging behind? Dr. Baral. So, first of all. Obviously, our panelists have different opinions. Depending on which way we are talking about. You're not sitting on the fence, right? It's its own way. But let me tell you one thing on technology. There are major technological improvements in our energy system, but to compare energy world, for example, with the telecommunication, may not be the right way. Because in energy, the infrastructure, when you build a power plant, it is a lifetime of 30, 40 years. So it is a much slower changes are there. Let me give you one example. I don't know if anybody remembers. There was a former Norwegian Prime Minister, Brutland. And Brutland, at the request of the UN Secretary General, 30 years ago, wrote a report on sustainable development. Sustainable development concept came 30 years ago with the Brutland report. The main idea was there to decrease the share of fossil fuels in our energy system and give a push to renewable energies and the others. 30 years ago, when this move started, share of fossil fuels in the global energy was 81%, 81%. And many things happened. As colleagues say, technology improved. The renewables, we made major achievements. We have seen also efficiency improved substantially. And the prices changed. Government support, Germany, other countries. And now, after 30 years, that 81% fossil fuel share today, 2017, after 30 years, is today the share of fossil fuels in the energy mix is 81% still. No change. So what I am saying is some facts are stubborn in the absence of government policies and regulations. So we cannot leave everything to the technological improvement by themselves. If we want to see changes, we have to push the changes. Otherwise, changes will not come itself. So 81%, 30 years ago, 81% today. So if we want to see the shares of renewables, other technologies improving much faster, then we have to take the measures accordingly. Mr. Gao, is that the real picture? I think one thing to do, obviously, is to look back Dr. Biral has done that. But a renewable energy technology, perhaps, is not increasing the proportion. But there are several things special. First of all, climate change requires lower carbon emission and a new technology, like at the Climate Conference in Paris, over 190 countries signed up to it. And also, new technology in Latin America, in Middle East, in India, solar energy is close to coal-fired power in the next three to five years. Perhaps the rest of the world will see that parity, or even solar energy being cheaper than coal-fired energy. So that's special today. And also, the development of systems. In the past, it was the supply-dominated industry. And now, distribution has led to more participants. So there will be more of a user-led energy industry. So these three things added together means it's a new era, different from the last 30 years. It will definitely drive new changes. To testify about the future, that's the argument. So next 30 years may be different than today. But this will critically depend on what government policies are there. The technological improvement is there. It is happening in an incremental way. But if you want to see major technological breakthroughs in the absence of the government policies, this will not happen. We have a government official sitting here, the minister. Minister, your thought. Well, I will speak about the connectivity mentioned by my colleagues, Mr. Kahn. The world is getting more connected. And that connectivity has a profound effect, even on the energy politics. If we look at energy politics, it's shift from producers to consumers, or geographical shift, US, shale oil and gas, China, et cetera. I think it's more complex than that, because they are not the only players. Players now is the major companies where the investment goes, the regulations mentioned by Dr. Perl. There are so many interconnected factors that politics is not going to be as simple as one would expect, geographic or supplier and consumers. All the players will have their share in the politics of the energy future. And those with the right vision will definitely have more than the others. But I think the politics in the future will be very much diluted rather than polarized. We've already seen a trend of decentralized power, in a way, when it comes to government's control of energy or government's approach to energy and different players coming onto the scene. Ms. Koucher, how do you see that trend? Is it going to bring us more innovation and technology as fast as we can, or rather the other way around? It's like when you talk about the issue of artificial intelligence, people now not only talk about the technological part of it, but also the ethnic part of it and the social impact of it. So very similar comparison we got over there. That's clear that the fact that the technology is now distributed, not only decarbonized, but distributed, decentralized, is a strong factor of acceleration. Really, because it means that in the past, so the answer was all the players were directly the states. Now the players are the companies, the industry players, and individuals. So the consumers, they become prosumers, producing themselves part of the energy they consume, and taking a much more active role. And it is a huge factor of acceleration. That's good news. Nevertheless, politics is needed. I mean, even if we accelerate, it is visible in the figures. You can see that every day things coming more and more rapidly, but not enough. We are not yet in a two-degree scenario. You know that better than me. So we are more 3.5, 3.6, something like that. So that's not yet enough. So in my view, well, we have all to focus on our own responsibilities. As business leaders, we need absolutely to a very determined way implement large-scale what is already clean and affordable. Bertrand Picard founded a very interesting initiative, I mentioned it, which is the clean and efficient solutions. Thousand clean and efficient solutions. That is to say, thousand solutions where you can effectively reconcile. That is our role, business leaders, to fully and large-scale implement them. That the role of politics to accompany the move, to set up a carbon price. How could we continue to say, we need zero carbon in a mix and to continue to have, well, fiscal scheme, which is not aligned with that. So it is the combined effort we need in order to be at the rendezvous of the two-degree, which is still a big challenge for everybody. I heard an argument a lot, but we do not see much action being taken when it comes to countries, it seems, for example, about the carbon trading issue. Let me go to you, Mr. Khan. A lot of words. Well, I think some countries are starting to do things. If you take the UK, where I'm based, in addition to the European trading scheme, the UK is imposed about 23 euros additional of carbon tax. That makes a total of nearly 30. And it's effectively eliminated coal from the system in the UK. We've talked a lot about governments. We've talked a lot about companies. As Isabel said, the player that is the most powerful now is the customer. And it's industrial customers and it's consumers. And they now have choice. They no longer have to take their energy from the wall in a prescribed way. As Isabel said, they can generate their own. They can increasingly store their own. They can control their own. They can make choices on their relationship with that energy. They can choose on its carbon intensity. And this is accelerating with the increasing digitization of the system, whether in a business or in a home. We are one of the largest internet of things providers for energy control. We've got nearly a million people out there now using our products. This is changing people's relationship with energy. This is why I'm an optimist. I think we're in a very difficult situation. But it's accelerating. And it's accelerating in the right direction because customers are starting to speak up and to use the authority that they've now got. To talk about customers, I need to talk about the customers of China, for example. But because all of you have been talking about the big country, huge market. So Mr. Gao, here's the thing. Even about carbon issue, there's a carbon plan already in China, despite a huge debate before taking place about it. And it's there. The question is, how fast will China move because it's a big consumer of the world's energy? And certainly, China, such as the other, just as the other emerging and developing countries, could quote unquote take this great leap forward without going through all the process but already going to the next stage. So tell me about what is going on in China, particularly to our participants here. I'm not saying China exceptional. I'm just using it as an example. Suji Zhang. In fact, yes, China, India, and other developing countries are making great progress in these fields. And they showed leadership. This morning, Premier Modi clearly said that in India there is a clear plan to developing renewable energy in China last year. Solar capacity already more than 130 gigawatts. And 2020, it will be expected to reach 300 gigawatts. Why is that? Why the leadership by China and India? Because we see that the new system will not be supported by high cost. It's quite different from the past. Because we can save cost and sustainable development. It's new change. And from the user side, from the user's perspective, the users in China take an example. A lot of the buildings on the roof in China, we calculated if we use all the roofs in China, residential, school, or factories, if we use solar, it can cover the totality of electricity used in China. We are carrying out a project, millions of roofs in solar energy. The people in China welcome this initiative because they give 12% of return if the money in the bank is only 3% of return is four times of return. So that's why the distributed energy in China reached already last year 20 gigawatts. And it will reach very soon 30 gigawatts. So the market force and government combined, it's very powerful. We provide a solution. We don't invest. And we provide relative services. I mean, a country that is well-known traditionally for energy industry, together with your colleagues in this same part of the world. What about the next stage when it comes to your preparation? Well, in my country, while Qatar has abandoned gas, we export to the old corners of the world our LNG. But again, we are part of this world and we are very careful about the CO2 and the footprint, environmental footprint. And that's why we, again, diversify the energy. And we are going through major projects of solar. That is, again, complementary to the base load taken by the gas. And in my view that, I again reiterate that most of the countries will find themselves in a similar situation that it's a mix of the energy balanced by the market, balanced by affordability. Rather than one form will come and just dominate and made other forms obsolete. For example, even with the best spread of renewables, you will still need other forms of sources of energy like gas to complement. Most of the renewables are intermittent, day and night. When is there or not? Gas is needed, actually, to complement the other renewable type. Another thing, of course, I have to ask you, because you are from the region, the Greater Middle East, is changing dramatically right now. The politics, the relationship between the countries, and also the new players coming into the fossil field, such as Russia and some of the others. So what would all of this mean for the great geopolitical changes that is already going on in your parts of the world, briefly to share with us? And then I'm sure there will be smarter questions coming from the audience. Well, we think that having the natural resource is, while it is a bless, but it is a responsibility, because we are a member of this bigger community of the world. And we would like to play a positive role in this. That sounds so diplomatic, I have to say, Mr. Minister. And this is reality. And if you see how we acted, how we acted, we invested, actually, while the downturn of oil and gas price were very harsh on us. It's in the 80s, 90s. And lately, we continue to invest, because we know that this strategic commodity is needed by the world. And we take responsibility for that. We continue to invest. And if you look at the map of investment, you will see the Middle East, especially the Gulf, continued investing while the price of oil and gas were down. All right. Mr. Minister is saying, we originally, until now, always believe in a shared future, you see what you're saying? Yes. Let's go to Dr. Virol before we open it up to the floor. I would like to make two points. One on China, one on Middle East. And China, I mentioned in the beginning that China is changing so will the markets. I want to give two examples on two fields. We didn't talk much. One is natural gas and coal. China put a cap on coal because of, again, the blue skies and the health issues, and started to import LNG. As a result of that, because China is a big country, the LNG prices in Asia Pacific in very few months of time went from $6 to $11, almost double. It is a China effect. Again, to understand the impacts of new China energy policies for everybody. Number one. Number two, another technology that we didn't talk. Many of us like, some of us don't like, is nuclear power. Today, China is building almost half of the nuclear power plants in the world. And as a result of that, Chinese bring the cost of nuclear power down. And I wouldn't be surprised if China soon emerges as a nuclear technology exporter, because it is cheaper than they compared to establish nuclear technology exporters. This is on China, on Middle East, and other resource holders. Mr. Minister is completely right. They are serving the world, providing gas, oil, and the others. But I see a challenge for those countries coming, which is the following. A shale gas coming from United States, shale oil coming from United States, and the renewables are coming. Therefore, those countries, not in the short and medium term, but in the longer term, there is a need to diversify the economic base, broaden the economic base, in order to reduce the vulnerabilities of the economy to the changes in the international energy process. It is already happening, but at a speed satisfactory to you? I think some countries are doing faster than the others. It's a diplomatic answer. What about, I figured that out. What about Qatar? Well, in Qatar, we think the diversification is a must. The journey started, but it is a journey. It will take time, but we are adamant about diversifying our economy. Our service sector has great potential, construction, et cetera, et cetera. But I fully agree with my colleagues that we need to diversify further. But what is good is that we started the journey, and we can see that the percentage. I'll give you an example. Only five years ago, 60% of the GDP was for the hydrocarbons, and 40% for the rest. Today, it is vice versa. In fact, last year, it was 70% the other sectors, and only 30% the hydrocarbons. So the journey started, and we are continuing. Ms. Korshaw, very briefly, you want to comment? Yeah, there was a big absent, I believe, in our conversation, which is energy savings. Because the best energy is the one you have no longer to consume. And the new fact is that this new technology, this distributed technologies, they open the opportunity, which is really new too, to fully rethink the way we not only produce, but consume energy. And our experience, because in our group, it is our biggest metier, is that when we start screening energy consumption, setting new technologies, digital, algorithm, sensors, artificial intelligence, et cetera, you can save 40%, 50% of your consumption. So it is really a major point in the global equation. And I say that because to me, it means that we have to rethink not only the technologies, but the business models. As a group, we started to invest in megawatts, no longer only the megawatts, but the negawatts, the energy you no longer consume. So we have to think at a new layer of investment, infrastructure investment, to rebuild heating systems, cooling systems, lighting systems, everything to set up massively this digitalized distributed technology, because it is really to me that the best answer is this one. And it is a win-win. It is a win-win situation. I would even say win-win-win. Savings, climate, job. Can I say that? Win-win-win. Do you have one more to win? A proof point. Just to, this journey that Isabel's talking about, which is absolutely crucial, customers, society wants to use less energy per unit GDP. And just one fact, in 1980, it took 0.56 tons of oil equivalent to generate $1,000 of GDP. In 2016, it was 0.17. We have reduced the energy intensity per unit GDP by 2 thirds over the last 36 years. We're still not on the right track, but we're a lot better than we were in 1980. All right, some may agree with you, some may not. We are getting a very smart crowd with us today. People who are coming to the World Economic Forum, they are always very smart. So let's go to them. They have much more intelligent questions than my earlier, and I'm sure they know whom to address those questions to. Let's have our audience to raise your hand, and our colleague will bring the microphone to you. Anyone? Be supportive. Anyone? Over there? OK, over there, this gentleman. Thank you. Yeah, my name is Jeroen van der Veer. I think my question is probably for a Fatih Birol, but I leave it to you. My concern is, which is not yet mentioned, that if you don't have a shared vision and this question about politics, that we basically will under-invest our energy system. And that means that if you think that's true, you get high cyclicality, especially at the gas... So coal may be out, but nobody will invest in a coal mine. But for oil and gas prices, we are now used for some years of relative lower oil prices. But I think it will become very cyclical to the prices, due that everybody is reluctant to invest if there is a lot of uncertainty. But later, it may translate to electricity prices as well. OK, that's both a comment and also a question. Dr. Birol, you want to comment on that? Now, I think Mr. van der Veer, who is one of the leaders of oil business many years, pinpointed a very important issue. Now, the oil and gas upstream sector in the last four years, we have seen investment declining by 50% almost. It is unprecedented. We have never seen in the history of oil if there was one year of decline, the next day there was a rebound. And this is a significant issue because the demand is growing in a healthy way, 1.3, 1.4 million dollars per day. And some of the fields we have today, which are producing oil, are in a decline. The oil fields are like human beings. When they are young, they produce a lot and after they come a peak and they decline. So, how are we going to meet the demand in oil demand in the next few years if we are not investing today? Which may be a big challenge for the oil industry and this is a very important point to highlight. Check on that, I think, but very important one. Any other questions or comments? Feel free. Well, I guess some comments from here. I actually just want to pick up on your own point. This is so crucial that we don't have a stop-start process. And you said yourself earlier, governments and regulators are struggling to keep up with all this change. One of the things we can do is build on the learnings from the last 20 years. And even if I may plug it, the World Economic Forum System Initiative, on the future of energy that Fatih and I are chairing together, is trying, with lots of work that Yorun and others have done, to make a coherent sense of all this so governments don't need to keep learning for themselves. They can start to learn from others. This is going to be crucial if we avoid turning from left to right and start to move towards a common path. The pendulum is too much a waste of time. What about you, Mr. Gao? You earlier want to comment about this. The government in China has been very determined in the change. In the past, we know China used to rely on coal exclusively. Well, predominantly. In 2015, it was still 75 percent. But the government set a target that by 2030, coal fire will be below 50 percent. The new increase will come from solar and other renewable energy. So the reason is mainly, what my understanding is that the Chinese government has seen one thing. When we are driving changes in energy, renewable energy, as you said, will drive technology improvement, much of this distributed energy is in fact driving the upgrading of the industries in China. So China will probably be a leader in the energy change, but also in other industries, driving our energy change forward and together with other countries towards a new future. One is the economic structural reform that China is doing right now, or trying to do at least. The other is about trying to improve the efficiency of energy that is going on right now. But whether that goal is too big a goal, we'll see how the actions are being taken. Ms. Koucher, I know you have to leave a little bit earlier, and you do have some wonderful comments before you go. You have to leave some wonderful comments before that. Maybe the last comment on the key point of shared vision. I'm sure we need a shared vision, but we have to focus on the goal, the final goal. The final goal is decarbonize and build a better society, giving access to energy. You all know that there are 1.3 billion people having no access to energy. You all know that without energy. You have just nothing, no education, no development. No human development. That's a purpose, that's a shared vision. Now, I'm not sure we can fix the technological solutions. Just on one example, Fatih mentioned the fact that we effectively see today, which is that, well, probably the easiest way to clean energy is to go through power, because power, we know how to clean it, wind, solar. But never forget that it's only 1.3 of the energy consumption. So to clean the rest, what is the best solution? Nobody knows. Either we move everything to power, but we will meet difficulties, or we find other alternatives. And so maybe you heard about hydrogen. Hydrogen is probably an option. Nobody knows what is the best today. So I believe that our role together is to have the clear purpose in mind and to try, in parallel, several solutions to implement large-scale what is already efficient, affordable, economically speaking, and for the rest, to put a lot of options on the table to push them in parallel and when ready to make decisions. And not too early, because if you do that too early, you are no longer agile. In a context where everything is moving so fast, we would have bet that the solar technologies would experience such a decrease in price, in terms of cost. It was absolutely impossible to predict. Though my point is just to say, we have to mix two things at the same time, vision, but agility. So that's what makes this topic fascinating, in my view, because we have really to do the two at the same time. Vision and agility. There we go. Thank you so much for sharing with us. Thank you very much, and sorry for leaving now. Yes, you got some keywords over there. Let's go floppers for the keywords as well before we wrap it up. Mr. Minister. Shall we consider energy as a purely commercial commodity or strategic commodity? What is your choice? I think it is a strategic. It has commerciality in it by nature. That's fine. But we should, regardless of which sector of energy we're talking about, we should look at energy as a strategic commodity. Human being needs it, and they need all form of energy. Population is increasing. We have responsibility to avail energy in an affordable manner. Boom and bust can cause shocks, which will manifest itself down the road. Five, 10 years from any shock happening. That's not very healthy to any kind of energy. Example, with what is mentioned by Dr. Pirol, 50% drop in two consecutive years, first time it happened. Now, that has a lot of ramification. It may manifest itself down the road. If we look at it responsibly, we should make absolutely sure that such shocks, boom, and bust don't happen violently impacting the energy industry in a negative way. The least discovery happened in the conventional oil was last year. The discovery to replacement ratio is 11. That didn't happen in the last 80 years. That can have an effect down the road. We need to have healthy industry. All sectors of energy must enjoy healthy situations so that they can sustain itself, avail energy wherever it is needed. Sustainability and coexistence, that's what you're talking about. Let's go to you, Mr. Gao. Some key words? Some key words? OK. The energy industry is perhaps not the same as the new industries. But today, I think two things will happen. One is the participation of users going forward. And users will become a very important force in the industry. This is different from the past. Secondly, digitization, smart energy, digital technology will be capable of linking up billions dollars worth of equipment to achieve smart management so that energy production of service will be connected. This is something we will see. A lot of changes going on. Some are extremely fundamental. Let's leave to the two co-chairs to say a few words. Maybe some key words for our audience to take away. Mr. Gao. Look, I am an optimist. Despite the challenges, I actually think to what Jeroen van der Veer was saying, there are real pathways that are now understood. If I take heat and power, the first thing we've got to do is energy efficiency. The second thing we've got to do is natural gas, which needs to displace coal. The third thing, where it is politically acceptable, is to use nuclear. And the fourth thing is to gradually move to renewables as they become cost efficient and as the grid is decarbonized. Now, on transport, there's a similar pathway that we've learned a lot about over the last 25 years, which is, again, energy efficiency first, hybridization of the internal combustion engine, then progressively moving to electric vehicles as the grid is decarbonized and as the technology develops. And all of this is supported by more and more distributed energy systems, ultimately leading to solar and batteries being at the heart of this future state. I'm an optimist about the end game. The challenge is getting everybody walking down that path. But we're a lot further along it than we were 20 years ago. OK. Mr. Barrow, you are the same? No. He's an optimist, and I am a pessimist. I should start from there. So this is the. It's a balance of power, right? Exactly. So I'm just only say costal optimistic to make it more diplomatic again. Now, shared vision is a very good catch word, a key word. But let's remember the overall title of this web, fractured world. How can we have a shared vision in a fractured world? Put in a more global context. The only I believe the shared vision like goal we have is the Paris Agreement. And here, I believe every country will have its own way to reach their targets. And we mentioned Mr. Gower mentioned what's happening in China. I highlighted the solar. India is also going in the same direction. But why those countries are pushing renewable energies are not necessarily primarily driven by climate change. It is driven by the local pollution in the cities. This is the main driver. So if you want to have a shared vision, we have to get the concerns of all the countries together and try to put it together. Because some countries have other concerns, such as energy security, such as affordability of energy. So in my view, to put a shared vision for the world is not very easy. But if you want to go in that direction, we try to have an empathy with all the countries and build a shared vision on the basis of that. To solve all the root problems, that would bring us the shared future. All right, I guess we have coming back to the very theme of the World Economic Forum this year. It's a great success and discussion. Thank you so much, Dr. Burro, Mr. Kong, Mr. Gao, and Minister Al-Sadha. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much, gentlemen. And Ms. Koucher earlier. Thank you.