 How do we incentivize the corporate structures or corporations to actually address these social issues? What is the role of governments and civil society organizations in the process? Well, when it comes to serial deforestation, it's more a market solution. And the question then becomes what is the role of the consumers? I think a lot of the advances we've seen have really been through sort of the stick approach, right? The international NGOs have been holding corporations up for public scrutiny, exposing unsustainable practices or unfair practices or environmentally damaging practices. This has done a lot to move these corporations along because they care about their image. They care about what the consumer thinks of them. And if the consumers are informed and want to improve the performance of their consumption, then they're going to demand products that are more environmentally sustainable, that are produced in socially responsible ways. We're just getting started on this. This isn't something that's pervasive or that's happening across all markets in the world. We have a lot of markets in emerging economies right now that are not necessarily demanding these environmentally sustainably produced products. And so there's a need to educate those consumers. There's a need for these markets to actually care about what they're buying and the quality of what they're buying and what's the impact of the production systems that lead to their products. The civil society has become quite engaged together with the corporate sector, particularly on this zero deforestation idea. And one thought that I've had is that that's really good. It's a positive collaboration. But if now both the civil society and the private corporation are sitting together around this objective, who will do the monitoring and verification of this commitment that we're talking about?