 You'll be alive. Good morning, everyone. This special meeting of the Durham Historic Preservation Commission shall now come to order on this 15th day of June, 2021. My name is Matt Bouchard and I am chair of the commission. The commission is a quasi-judicial board of record and as such, all testimony will be recorded. Under this procedure, our meeting today will also be live streamed on the city's YouTube channel. The proceedings of this board are governed by the zoning laws as recorded. As such, please note the steps we have taken to ensure that each party's due process rights are protected as we proceed in this remote platform. First, today's meeting will be conducted in accordance with the statutes enacted in session law 2020-3 and codified at North Carolina General Statutes, chapter 166A-19.24, which allows for remote meetings and quasi-judicial hearings during declarations of emergency. The applicant on today's agenda was notified before being placed on the agenda that this meeting would be conducted using a remote electronic platform. The applicant has consented to the board conducting the evidentiary hearing on their request using this remote platform. We will also confirm today at the start of the evidentiary hearing that all participants consent to the matter proceeding in this remote platform. If there is any objection to the matter proceeding in this remote platform, the case will be continued. Third, notice of this meeting was provided to the applicant and to the public in multiple ways, including signage posted on site, notification letters mailed to all adjacent property owners, informing recipients regarding the remote platform, and a general announcement via our website, informing the public of the same. The notices for today's meeting advise the public on how to access the remote meeting as the meeting occurs. Individuals wishing to participate in today's evidentiary hearing were required to register prior to the meeting. Information about this registration requirement, along with information about how to sign up to participate, was included in the mailed notice letters sent to each adjacent property owner. This information was also included on the board's website. The public was advised to contact the city immediately in case of objection to the evidentiary hearing or to the remote meeting platform. I understand that nobody has registered to speak in opposition to today's case. All individuals participating in today's evidentiary hearing were also required to submit a copy of any presentation, document, exhibit, or other material they wish to submit at the evidentiary hearing prior to today's meeting. All materials that the city received from the participants in today's case, as well as a copy of city staff's presentation and documents were posted online prior to this meeting. The agenda in all materials to be discussed today may be viewed at any time during today's meeting by visiting the web link for today's agenda by Durham's Agenda Center. Finally, all individuals who registered to participate in the evidentiary hearing on today's agenda, as well as all city staff participants were emailed a witness oath and consent to a remote hearing form prior to today's meeting. Any individual planning to testify or submit evidence in the evidentiary hearing was notified that they must sign the oath form prior to today's meeting. We will often reaffirm everyone's oath on the record at today's meeting. Are there any members of this board that would have any conflicts of interest with regard to the case before us today? Hearing none, I also ask of the board, are there any early dismissals being requested today? I can be here for about an hour. I'm assuming we'll be within that range, but if not, that's it. Good to know. I think we'll be done within an hour. Good morning, Chair Bouchard. I also have an hour's timeframe this morning. Okay, anybody else? I will do what needs to be done to make sure that our evidentiary hearing is concluded within the hour. As Chair of the Historic Preservation Commission, I'd like to remind everyone that our quasi-judicial hearings function similar to a court proceeding. Staff will first present an overview of the case and then the applicant will have an opportunity to present their evidence. Opponents, if there are any, may then present their evidence and the applicant may then present a rebuttal. Board members will refrain from questions or comments until each speaker has completed his or her presentation. Testimony should consist of facts each witness knows directly, not hearsay. Evidence already presented need not be repeated. All witnesses who have signed up in advance will be given the opportunity to speak and their testimony will be recorded. The board will vote on the case after the presentation of all evidence, pro and con concerning the case. The decision of this board is subject to appeal to the Board of Adjustment and then to the Durham County Superior Court. Clerk Elliot, could you please take the attendance of the commissioners who are here today? Yes. Chair Brassard. Present. Commissioner Dianne. Present. Okay. Commissioner DeBarry. I don't think he's here. Commissioner Thieselman. Present. Vice Chair Gulsby. Here. Commissioner Hamilton. Present. Commissioner Johnson. Present. Commissioner Craggar. Commissioner Waders. Present. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioners, you've been forwarded an agenda for today's meeting. It is a single item agenda. Would anyone, including city staff, like to recommend any adjustments to the agenda? No adjustments, thanks. Let us move forward. Madam Clerk, could you please swear in all city staff that will be presenting today's case? Yes. Do you members of staff swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in the public hearing proceeding for today's case is the truth by your own knowledge or by information and belief? Carla Rosenberg, I do. Great. We will now move forward with hearing requests for certificates of appropriateness. There is just one case on our agenda today. It is case number COA 210040 1106 9th Street. Amendment to COA 210019 to reduce 365 day delay imposed by the commission on the demolition of a contributing structure. We've already pulled the commission to see if there are any conflicts of interest in hearing this case, and there were none. And so let us proceed with the swearing in of anyone who plans to speak for this case. Do you swear? We just need to bring in everybody. There's just a few people who are still trying to get in. Okay, I'll hold off. And to everyone. This is Robin. Yeah. This is Robin Burnett. Yes. If you bear with us for just one moment, we're trying to bring everyone into the meeting. So. We'll be swearing in everybody at the same time. Okay. Just one moment. Thank you, Robin. All right. And I have a patient that I'm going to have to run into the room to see. So I'll be back. But I. So the swearing in, hopefully I'll make it. Let's see if I got video. Video. Video. I believe that there on, there's a, there's two of the same name in this meeting. And so. But I think we have at least one of them. To say Calhoun's and to Joe Bailey's, but I think we have. One at least in their panelists. So I believe we have everyone, but we do ask that everyone please enable their cameras. At this time as well. Please. Thank you. Okay. Do you square or firm that the testimony you're about to give in the public hearing proceeding for today's case. Is the truth for your own knowledge or by information and belief. Yes. If you could each state your name and then. Your affirmation. Robin Burnett and I'm the owner of 1111 North Mangum street and 1107 North Mangum street. And I'd swear that what I'm saying or whatever I'm, whatever is. It's legitimate. Just I do. Just I do. I do believe. Tell you what, I will ask each witness just so we don't have people speaking on top of each other. Mr Miller. Mr chairman. This is Tom Miller. I'm happy to. Swear. As sworn. Mr DeBona. I do. Ms Calhoun. I do. Mr Bailey. Mr Bailey, if you could unmute yourself. I do. Thank you, sir. Mr Blake. I do. I do. I do. I do. I do. Thank you, sir. Mr Blake. I do. I think we got everybody. I'm going to do the same thing and do a roster roll call here. To ensure that everybody who is. Planning to speak today. Consents to proceeding using this remote electronic platform. So I'm again going to go in the same order. I see you on my screen. Mr Miller. Do you so consent? Mr. Chairman, I consent the historic preservation society of Durham. Consents. Mr DeBona. I do. Ms Calhoun. I do. Ms Burnett. I do. Mr Bailey. I do. Mr Blake. I do. I believe that is everybody. It's not. Mr Calis. In his form as well. And registered to speak. I have to do the zoom meetings. My patient. He's at the bottom under my other fake Cal. At the bottom. Okay. Ms Calhoun his name again, please. Mr Calis. Jesse Calis. I do. I do. I believe that is everybody. Mr Calis. His form as well. And registered to speak. I have to do the zoom meetings. My patient. Mr Calis. Jesse Calis is on the line. And he is on that. You see at the bottom. I have two screens up here. He has my computer. So it's showing his fake Cal. Mr Calis. If you could please unmute yourself. And please confirm that you consent. To. This evidentiary hearing being conducted on. A remote. Electronic platform. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. I will be the contractor. That was before. Uh, Uh, construction. Hey. Hi. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm. I muted both of you. Um, since you're both in the same room and, um, you could just use one camera. Um, because with both of you on, we're getting tremendous feedback. Um, so. Miss Calhoun. I would just use your camera with both of you on the same screen. That's appropriate to the board. Do I need to read a minister to him? I don't believe he was, um, one of the responding parties one given the oath. Ms. Elliott. So I think that probably does make sense. Um, So why don't you do that? And then I'll ask Mr. Calhoun. Same question. I asked a moment ago. Okay. Mr. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give in the public hearing proceeding. For today's case is the truth for your own knowledge or by information and belief. Yes. Yes. And Mr. Callas, once again, do you consent to this evidentiary hearing happening on a remote platform? Yes. Wonderful. Thank you all for your patience and getting through that, uh, that roll call. Um, at this time, we may proceed with the staff summary. Carla. All right. Can you see my screen? And. Okay. Excellent. Um, so, uh, Carl Rosenberg planning department, this is case COA 210040. I'm an amendment to COA 2100. 019. Um, this is an application to remove. Um, a structure from the historic district to relocate it outside the district. Um, to 1111 North. Mangum street. Um, this is a staff memo rather than the normal staff report. Um, and I'd like to introduce it into the record. Um, and invite Ms. Calhoun and. Uh, Ms. Calhoun and her. Um, Daughter. Uh, Ms. Burnett to present their case. Thank you. Miss Calhoun. All right. Um, this is a new application. And it's an application to, um, for the same property. Um, and there are two reasons for this case. One is substantial changes will be made to this. And the second is that, um, The relocation of the house, um, The support of the house. The relocation of the house, um, The substantial changes will improve the property, uh, significantly. And, uh, You know, it's, it's part of, it says, uh, during the period of 365 days, which has been, uh, uh, levied on, uh, mystical new. Uh, we might negotiate with the owner and any other parties in an organization to find a means to preserving the structure or the landmark and we intend to preserve the structure. Um, so we will make a case that substantial movement of this house, uh, will take place. Can you go back to the, uh, okay. This is the house. This is the back of the house. Um, this is me standing there. Unfortunately. He couldn't crop me out of the picture, but this is the rear of the house. Now the, uh, those two, uh, small bump out areas in the rear of the house will be removed. They were not original. They were added, uh, to the original, uh, property, uh, to house a washer drive. So they, they won't, they won't go and, uh, give me the other side of the house. This is a duplex property. Next slide. This is the front of the house. Um, it will go as is. And if anything is, uh, is removed or, or demolished in order to move the house, it will be repaired and this house will be restored to the condition that it is in at this time right now. So that's, uh, that's that. I think there is a side view of the house and this, uh, side views were required. Next slide. There's a side view of the house, um, showing two meters on one side of the house, needed for each, uh, property. Each house, each townhouse, I call them the townhouses or a duplex property. Uh, what we're going to do is, is, uh, uh, all new electric with the meter going on the other side of the house. Each house will have its separate, uh, water lines, electric lines, plumbing lines, et cetera. Okay. Next slide. Um, uh, this is a bill of sale that, uh, uh, Dr. Burnett, as well as Mr. Camus, they have agreed to, uh, sell the property. And so this is a statement that the property, the building, not the land, the building will be sold to, uh, Dr. Burnett. Okay. Next slide. Uh, we have had a, a survey done on the land. Uh, the property will be moved to 1107 North Mangum street. And this is a survey of that land. Um, uh, illustrating where the property will be placed. So it will be placed on a property line that is in line with her house. This property is next door to her house. Her house is at 1111 North Mangum. And she purchased that house in 2005. And purchased the land next to her in 2007. And so this is the land next to her property and her, her property is a historic, uh, historically designated property, um, which, uh, I have included that it was the main art Mangum rice diet house. And she is maintained and is, um, constantly renovating and, and, uh, improving that particular structure. This will go on a lot next to 1111. And, uh, it will be, um, uh, installed on, on that, on that lap in this manner. Okay. Next, next slide. Miss Calhoun or Mr. I'm sorry to interrupt. Um, this is Christa Cougar with the city attorney's office. And I do not have a legal point, but, um, I'm still hearing significant, significant feedback. Um, and I don't know if someone else who's in the room with you is also amplifying the meeting via YouTube or something like that. Um, if, if you could turn that down, I think it would be helpful to hear you with more clarity. Okay. Thank you very much. Is that better? Yes. All right. Thank you. Next slide. Next slide, please. I'm trying my computer keyboard is messed up. Okay. I am not able to advance the slide. I don't know anything. Hmm. Wait, I think I'm at the end of the last page. Yes, I'm at the end. So, please go back. Okay. Miss, uh, miss quite a few slides here. Okay. Wait a minute. Hold it. Hold it. That one. Uh, okay. This. All right. This shows women. It would be worse if I was trying to do this. Okay. Well, this is a drawing of the lot with the house on it, but it's not the official survey, which we included as the last slide. Okay. Let's, let's back up, please. All right. These are some drawings. Okay. Okay. I'm going to move to the next slide. I want to make sure that we have a, a, a, or a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a. A, a, a, a, a, a, a, a. over to 11, 1107 North Mangum. So this is a drawing of the foundation and the everything that goes along with the foundation. Okay, next slide. All right, well, that's a good, this is a good thing what you had right there. Now this is a street picture of the lot at 11, 1107, which is, you know, next door on the far right is the 11, 11 property of my daughters. And it will go right up where those steps are there and be placed on the foundation. The house will be placed there. Okay, next slide. Backing up one that is a letter from Wolf House Movers. Mr. Blake is on the call today and he is exceptionally expert in moving houses and moves houses for preservation in North Carolina. I think most of the people in Durham remember that a stone church was moved from Austin Avenue from Highway 55 over to the campus of North Carolina Central University. His firm did that move without losing a single stone on the stone building or cracking any of the plaster on the inside of the church, it was amazing. And he told me that if I wanted to I could put a glass of water on the front porch of 1106 and that glass of water will come right on over to the 1107 North Manga. That's how well he's gonna move. He moves houses. So, and he's on the call to answer any of your questions having to do with the move. Next slide, please. Go ahead. Okay, that's next slide. Go ahead. I should be some, no, we've seen that one. Ah, no, no. What I'm trying to do is look, I have you look at the interior of the house. So can we go back? I wish I was. That's a survey that you wanted earlier, but I will see if there are further further. I just wanted you to see the inside of the, deploying some on the inside of the house. No, no, no, back, back, back. There, yeah. Okay. So on the inside of the house, there are, this is the second floor, existing second floor of the house. And bedrooms is two bedrooms and a bath on each side on each, in each unit. What we intend to do is expand the house 14 feet such that we can add another bedroom and a bath on the second floor. And on the first floor, there will be room for a kitchen. The kitchen in the Karen house is extremely, you know, extremely small and not appropriate. Anyway, we'll, we'll put kitchens on the, in the rear, in the 14 foot addition on the first floor and a bedroom and a bath and additional bath on the second floor. And so, let's see, that takes care of that. Front porch, the same. And I think that's it. Going upstairs, it's a duplex. And we were really excited about moving it and having it as a part of the family property on North Mangum Street. Are there any questions? I believe you're muted. I believe you're right. Thank you, Ms. Calhoun. Do any of the commissioners have questions for Ms. Calhoun before we invite others to speak? I don't see any hands raised. Thank you very much, Ms. Calhoun. Dr. Burnett, would you like to speak next? I should most be handling your patient. Dr. Burnett, you are on mute. Okay, so essentially everything that my mother has said is representing exactly how it is, as it should be. There is, trying to think if there was anything else. I've got the support of this team of people that we are, we have in place to move the house. I have the support of the place of the canoe, who is the, the house is, will be exiting and coming over to 1107, the support meaning that the cheering on and the, and helping in whatever way possible so that we can move the house with as little minimal issues or adverse issues as possible. If anyone has any questions, I'd love to get them because I have, I'm literally in clinic with back-to-back patients. So, and I can't, I couldn't reschedule them. So if there's anything that someone wants to ask me, then please feel free. Thank you, Dr. Burnett. Do any of the commissioners have any questions for Dr. Burnett? Hearing and seeing none. I would invite anybody else who has registered to speak in support of this application to do so. Mr. Chairman, this is Tom Miller. I'm president of Preservation Durham. I appeared before you when this case came up before. And what I wanted to say today is, is we've read the application. We are familiar with the staff report. It's the position of Preservation, Preservation Durham's position is the same as that of your staff and for the same reasons. And we urge you to approve this application and to eliminate the balance of the delay that we had argued for when this came up before. And I just wanted to express, although it is our preference that this building be maintained in its original location since that's not going to happen, I just wanted to express our gratitude to Dr. Burnett and to Faye Calhoun for their willingness to undertake a pretty complicated operation to move it. We're glad that it will be saved even in a new location to Mr. Blake. The only thing I have to say is I'm familiar with your work, but in this instance, please don't drop it. And to the city of Durham, I hope that you will work really hard to eliminate all the possible roadblocks to moving this property, literally roadblocks to moving this property, all the way across town. I saw the route, the preferred route, which is on Main Street. This should be quite a parade when it happens. And I certainly will be there to watch it. And when the house is set on its new foundation, I will drink that glass of water. Well said. Thank you, Mr. Miller. Does anyone have any questions for Mr. Miller? Yeah. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I did have just a question of just personal interest. In each of these apartment units today in the kitchen, there is a built-in hutch, which is really a lovely bit of carpentry from the period of the house. And I was wondering if Faye could tell us if they had considered those hutches and what will become of them when new kitchens are put on this property. Let me tell you that we have, we will save those hutches by any means necessary. We have a place for the hutches. We have a wall for those hutches to go on and we love those hutches. So we are maintained. No walls will be moved in this house. There'll be simply an addition we're gonna put on the rear of the house. So the original walls and the original, everything on the inside of the house will remain. There'll just be an addition on that house. And in that addition will be those hutches. Each unit will have its little hutch. Thank you, Faye. May I add something? Can I add something? I just wanna... Dr. Burnett, if you could turn your camera back on. Oh, I'm sorry, here is my camera. Your phone says, okay, here we go. Great, thank you. So just to let you know, the 1111 North Mangum Street was a two-year adventure for me in restoration. The every bit, the reason why I love the house at 1106 is cause she needs a home. And I don't want anything to be destroyed on her. I've named her. She is just, she's going right in there. She's the baby bear to my, the mama bear is 1111 North Mangum Street. I can totally relate to the structure that's in there, the pantry. If you talk to the person who's the draftsman that I met with for three hours on this past Saturday, it was very important for him to find, for him to understand that those hutches had to stay. So every bit of siding, every bit of parts that I can bring in and put in and recycle, this is the ultimate recycling project. And I've not, this is not new to me in terms of this, that portion of it, once it gets planted, the actual move itself is the adventure because I've never done this before. So, but I want you to be assured that I have every intention of keeping as much as we can. That's terrific to hear. Okay. For the record, the commission's purview typically does not reach interior features and finishes, but like others, I'm sure on this commission, it's gratifying to hear that there is an intention to save some historic and unique woodwork inside the house. Any other commissioners have questions for any of our speakers or is there anybody else who would like to speak in support of this proposal? Mr. Blake, you wanna talk about the move? I'll see. Do any of the commissioners have any questions for Mr. Blake about how he intends to move the property? How do we stay abreast of when it will happen so we can come to the parade? Yay. Thank you, Commissioner Feaselman. Does anyone have an answer to the timing of the move? Mr. Blake? A lot of that's gonna depend on the timing of Durham's Inspection Department improving the move, approving everything that goes along with the move in terms of all of the police department. I think there are 12 departments that have to sign off on the application. Can you hear me now? I think I was muted. This is Mike Blake. Can you hear me? Yes. Can you hear me, Mr. Blake? Yes. A comment that Rahman made about recycling and I was on the past president of the International Association. We did a lot of studies and then about 2009, the moving industry saved over 800 million tons of debris from going through the landfill by moving buildings. Now, this was nationwide. So it's considered one of the largest recycling industries in the world as a nation. This particular house, don't see any issues with the moving, don't have any concerns about anything falling apart. We will get it there in the same condition that it is now. Jesse Callis has brought on LISAC and Associates engineers. They have been involved in the moving industry quite a bit. So they'll be involved on part of the team. So I'm not expecting any issues. And as far as scheduling, we're still working through the list of getting approvals. The approvals won't be difficult when I can get in contact with the people, but waiting on Duke Power, waiting on the telephone. I have communicated with the Duke Power engineer, but have talked to the police department, the Alex Johnson with the Urban Forestry Department, have talked to Traffic Engineering, Lisa Tracy, which is signal heads and the stop lights. And that process, I am involved in working on getting the permit application processed. And we'll just have to continue to see when we have final approval permit-wise. But I'm not expecting any trouble. We're going to be a loaded height of 15 and a half feet. And Jesse's hired top people to do some dismantling and reassembly of the pieces that need to come far. Thank you very much, Mr. Blake. Any questions for Mr. Blake? Any other speakers wish to make any remarks in support of the request for Certificate of Appropriateness Amendment? I don't believe there's anyone registered to sign up in opposition to the case, but I will ask, is there anybody here who wishes to speak against the proposal? Seeing and hearing from none, we are going to close the public hearing at this time and discuss amongst the commissioners. I would like to kick this off. Number one, first by saying, what a remarkable job you all have done to plan to save this property. And my suspicion is that the other commissioners will share that sentiment with me. I do have a question, and I don't know if it's appropriate to ask this now of Stafford to wait until commissioners have a chance to talk about the substance of the proposal. I just want to confirm that we are simply voting to amend the 019 approval from a couple of months ago. It appears that there's a separate certificate of appropriateness 040. And because there isn't a proposed motion in our package, I'm just a little bit unclear procedurally whether or not we're simply amending a previously approved COA or voting on a new COA 040. Carla Rosenberg Planning Department. It is both, it's a new COA, but it's an amendment to the previous. So you would state the motion as approval of COA 40, 21, 0, 0, 0, 40. An amendment to, yes, the previous, that's correct. And it would be for removing or reducing the delay. Okay, thank you, thank you. And then additional points in the motion would be the relocation aspect. That's very helpful, thank you. Commissioners, conversation, comments, discussion? Yeah, silence. Okay. Matt, this is, oh, go ahead, Andy. Go ahead, please, please. I just wanted to say, yes, I'm grateful for the applicants for saving the property. Though it's not in the, it's original location. It looks like they are going to do great lengths to put this application together, get a special meeting and take care of the matter in a timely fashion. So I'm thankful and grateful and the property will still be preserved. This is commissioner's rules. We, I echo that sentiment. Do appreciate bringing forth the additional information. We need it to be able to say that this move could happen. I know you've gone to a certain extent beforehand, but bringing this additional information certainly assists us in making a better decision. Good morning, Wanda Watersen. I concur with both Ms. Johnson and Mr. Gillespie that work was done promptly and very accurately for us to understand. However, I do want to see the move as well. I remember when the church was moved and I look forward to seeing this happen at least from the beginning. Thank you. Anybody else? I have to say one thing real quick. I have to go see the patient right now. I have to hang up, but I want you to know that I'm planning on a humongous party when this all gets settled. Definitely, I would love to do a fundraiser. And this is not to try to sway you, but it's to do a fundraiser for the preservation as I did at the rice diet house. And I believe that flying drones over the move and having this very much advertised would be great for preservation Durham, for the future and recycling homes and for people to know that it can be done. I think it's a great thing. I think we can use this as a very big positive for the whole community. So that's my five cents and I've got to go. And I thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Burnett. Much appreciated. Thank you, Robin and everyone that's put together this proposal to make this happen. Commissioner, should we vote? Are we ready for that? If we could have a staff recommendation from Carla. Carla Rosenberg Planning Department, staff would recommend approval of the application to eliminate the delay. I will make a motion and hopefully it'll be well-worded. And Krista, if it's not, please let me know. With respect to case COA 2100040 1106 Ninth Street, amendment to COA 2100019 to reduce 365 day delay imposed by the commission on the demolition of the contributing structure, the commission consents to the amendment of COA 210019 to remove in its entirety the 365 day delay imposed in that COA for the sole purpose of permitting the immediate relocation of the primary residence located at 1106 Ninth Street to 1111 North Mangum Street. Otherwise COA 2100019 remains in full force and effect. Second. I second. Madam clerk, we can have a roll call vote. Okay, Chair Prashad. Approved. Commissioner Down. Approved. Commissioner Feaselman. Approved. Vice Chair Gulsby. Commissioner Hamilton. Approved. Commissioner Dotson. Approved. Commissioner Waders. Approved. Motion passes seven zero. Just want to thank everybody involved in this process for all of your hard work. This is a terrific victory for everybody. This is a win-win-win all the way around and the folks who have been key to making it happen are to be commended. So thank you and good luck. Good luck and thank you. Do we have other business to discuss? That is the only item we have on the agenda. We have no further COAs to consider, no old business or no and no new business. And so I would entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. I second as well. Bye everybody. We'll see you after the fourth of July. Everyone have a great holiday weekend.