 Alright, good morning everybody. Welcome to session two. This is relocating non-traditional archives and we're very excited to have a staff with us today from Gallaudet University here in Washington. On my left is Jim McCarthy and on my right is Paige Watson and Jared Grill. They will be presenting to us on how they managed to relocate their archives at Gallaudet and assisting us with us today and I've already warned that they didn't want to do this but I'm doing it anyway. With the ASL interpreters again on my left is Victoria and here at the table are Cody and Cynthia and they will be voicing the presentations of Jim, Jared and Paige and so at the end of the presentations any questions that you people have I will be walking around with the microphone so that we will be able to ask them questions and then they will be able to respond to you in the same manner that they will do for their presentations. So I'm personally I'm looking forward to this presentation for nothing else. I want to know what the ASL interpretation of archives is so I want to know what that means. So Jim take it away. Hi, good morning everybody. So as was mentioned I'm Jim from Gallaudet and I manage the archives there. We recently went through a pretty significant relocation project and I just want to clarify when we say non-traditional that's because we don't have typical archives at Gallaudet's university only. We also have a depository for deaf culture and history specific things regarding the deaf community in the United States for the last 150 years. So we have sort of a parallel system where we have our own school and our own social organizations, newsletters, our own communications and history, all of those artifacts. So we've collected a lot of things from that system that also includes furniture, artwork, sculptures, video and film all these various things were really closer to a museum collection than an archive collection in many ways. So this does present some challenges. So the first tip that I have here for you guys I'll show that on the slides. So it's important to keep this in mind when you're going through a project like ours. Don't. If you must, then I mean obviously you'll have to. So this is what we've learned from our process and our relocation. So we're going to split this kind of into three different parts. The first section is preparing the collection for its transfer, identifying a new home and then providing access for our patrons. So the first person to speak will be Jared Grill. He's our preservation specialist so take it away Jared. So I'll be giving a little bit of context about the Gallaudet University's archives and then how we process, went through the process of inventory and packing. So Gallaudet University was founded in 1967, our archives and that was done by Lucille Pendel who was the head librarian of Gallaudet University and who also used to work here at the National Archives in the 1950s. So they founded these archives for our institutional memory and then years later we added the repository of collections relating to deaf culture and language and it really expanded from there. And then we moved to the Merrill Learning Center, another facility or another building in 1980. So we had the archives in the basement. It was a mix of library and technical services for the building. Initially we had two large storage rooms and it was designed for temperature control, inventory and shelving numbers, security and our collection really grew and expanded past that so we added another two rooms for storage. And those two rooms were not designed for archiving or for storage. They were not temperature controlled. We had several issues like leaks. There was actually some flooding. Some critters got in there. We had a pretty serious mold or severe mold outbreak there that we faced these situations there at our library. And then Gallaudet University finally got a new head librarian who started the process of upgrading our library and our collection. We had an initial plan for renovation of that library area on the first floor and the basement and we were not planning to renovate the archives. We just wanted to do that area. And a few other things came up unexpectedly. We had an archivist who retired who was really just a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. We had COVID of course, so the university was closed and everybody was working and learning from home. And so Gallaudet University of the campus was kind of abandoned during COVID. We had a really severe rainstorm and the drainage ended up getting backed up. So we had some flooding in the archive area that really triggered the decision to close that area and required us to move out of MLC of the Merrill Learning Center. So initially we had to change the schedule, change the plans for the building and we did not have a comprehensive inventory. We only had smaller partial inventories. So when I joined there was no official comprehensive inventory. So we had to start that process. From March 2020 to November 2020 we were all working from home. So we were having zoom meetings and conferences every week for how we would implement this inventory, what we should include, what we should not include. And at that moment we really didn't have any experience with relocating our archives. We were just starting from scratch. So we went to SAA, the Society of American Archivists Conference. And there were two speakers there, one from Library of Congress and one from the University of Nebraska who gave some presentations on how they relocated their collections. And those two presentations really helped us a lot. We learned a lot from them. They gave us a lot of resources to help with our move and our relocation. So through this process we went through the discussion of what we should include, a session numbers different collections and all those sorts of things we discussed. Shelf numbers, what we should include, what we shouldn't include. And to see what would be the most beneficial items to keep in the collection, what was not as beneficial and so on in February 2021 Gallaudet was fairly restricted they were not really allowing people to come on campus. So we reached an agreement, we were able to come on campus once a week just at the beginning so we would rotate staff members because we only had three archivists at the time so each of us would rotate week after week. And then the COVID limitations became a little more flexible. So we were able to work every day in a week. One staff member would be in one room, another staff member would be in another room so we could practice social distancing. And then in March 2021 our new director Jim joined us and he really got the ball rolling got things going a lot faster with that relocation process. So once we had completed the inventory we had added barcodes to each of the boxes and labels of the property of Gallaudet University and so on and so forth. So then we had to start prioritizing we were moving things to three different locations. The first one was just an interim archives in another building that was still on campus another one was the warehouse. Jim will talk a little bit more about the warehouse location. And then the WRLC the Washington Research Library Consortium, they have a shared collections facility and we have already been a member of the consortium for about 30 years. It involves a lot of different research organizations and universities in the DC area and in Maryland. So we decided what was going to the interim room, what was going to the warehouse and what was going to the SCF. And that was based on demand how often people used those items in the collection. Some had already been digitized so that could be moved to a different place. It was the sort of prioritization we went through. So then we started packing the boxes and we used a strapping machine to keep the boxes closed and all tightly wrapped up. We placed items on pallets and created pallets out of these and most of them were going on a shelf so it was fairly easy to pack that. Sometimes as we went through our inventory we would have to count each individual item because we had a lot of loose objects that were up there on the shelf so we had to pack that up in a box and then get a new inventory count, wrap that up and then pack it and palletize it. So this includes things like furniture. We ended up having almost 200 pallets. It took about a year to pack and move all of this so luckily our staff of three expanded up to six at that time. So we had little rotations of two hours every day for how many months? Was it nine months? It was nine or ten. Nine or ten months of this packing. So it became quite monotonous at times but we really got to see a lot of objects that we maybe hadn't seen before so it was an interesting process. And we also had objects as Jim mentioned were almost more of a museum collection. So for example a TTY it's a teletype relay teletype writer. So deaf individuals used that in the past. It was almost a size of a mailbox we'll have a picture of that. There's a lot of things that were very heavy, some like furniture pieces of crafts and theater props, things like that. So packing those was somewhat of a challenge. We had to do it in a different way. Some had to be done entirely in bubble wrap and labeled with their number and barcode on the outside of that wrap to keep track of the items. And all of the art as well we have around 3,000 items relating to or from deaf artists. So getting those wrapped up in the bubble wrap covered and protected and then moved to a special palletization process. So there's about 15 pallets worth of art that were brought to the warehouse. We had to pack that up in a specific way so that we could keep track of everything and track all of the pieces. So in short what we learned is the comprehensive inventory is really important. It was very beneficial to get all of those pieces counted in that inventory. And this includes like donations. We'd have to get identify each of these individual pieces. Previously we'd have to identify each thing individually that was donated. We want to also prevent backlog because we do have significant backlog. So we've learned that when we receive new donations or new additions to the collection, we want to do a sort of preprocessing to reduce that workload. And then for packing as well, when we were packing we saw a lot of duplicates. We saw some things that were not really valuable to research or valuable to our history that did not need packed. So we were able to downsize a little bit before palletizing. It's maybe around 10 pallets or so that we saved that way. So we learned from that to sort of update our policies and not become just sort of a garbage repository. We wanted to become more strict with our donations to get meaningful things into our collection. And so with our new director we revisited those policies and how we make our acquisitions and accept donations. So obviously over this process it took about two years. We became very familiar with our collection in a way that had never happened before at our institution. So to give some idea of the total volume there's around 30,000 cubic feet or 15,000 square feet. Between 80 to 120,000 individual objects in our collection. So it's really out of proportion to the size of our institution. And that really gave some interesting challenges when we were relocating both to the interim and to the permanent space for our location choices. So we first had to find a new home for the collection. So the first law really is location. We were very fortunate that through our partners with WRLC, the Library Research Consortium we were able to rent some additional space for our collection in their shared collection facility. And the shared collections facility is pretty enormous. It's nine universities collections. But still we were able to only find space for half of our collection. So that was the first and easiest step. Second part was looking for a place that would still be accessible for the remaining 50% of the collection. So we tried to look on campus to identify locations for that. So a little bit of history. And from the 1940s through the 60s and 70s there was an outbreak of German measles. And a typical result of that is that a person who was pregnant who contracted the disease it would cause deafness in their child or in their infant. So there was also an outbreak of spinal meningitis around the same time. If a child caught that, one of the lasting effects was deafness. So from the 50s through the 80s we experienced a quite significant increase in the number of deaf individuals who were seeking college degrees. So during that period Gallaudet was just expanding wildly. We doubled the size of our campus. We had a lot of new dorms, new facilities that were being built. So we really just expanded the campus. So we could leverage that previous work in this case. The numbers for enrollment dropped off and they did not raise again. So we had a lot of space on campus that we thought, hey this would be great. We could avail ourselves of this space that's already there for some of our storage needs to house the remaining 50% of our collection. But again because of the age of the buildings and other factors, other financial issues, maintenance issues that did cause some issues for these buildings where they were not really suitable for that storage. In one case there was space available that was shared with electric and data like infrastructure. Where temperature control was impossible we would have had to replace the HVAC system for the entire building to make it work which was just not financially feasible. Another space we identified, we thought it would be great. It was an old dorm. Most of the spaces were all vacant and we were going to take over one floor of that. But it turns out the building was slated for demolishment. So we had to look for a space off campus. So you know the DMV area is quite expensive and any available space is going to cost a lot of money. So the first thing that we had to make sure of for the space was that it would fit our budget. Luckily we already had some funding available for us to use through the library. But it was intended for just basic renovation so it was not a lot of money. So we had to look to see what we could find with that. And at the same time we needed to make sure that the location was accessible to staff. My team and most of us live in northwest DC. Montgomery County is kind of northwest of DC. Montgomery County is expensive. So there was that factor. And in addition to that we needed space because we needed people to be able to work remotely from that area. So those were our priorities. We had to juggle. And we were very lucky to find one space. It's in PG County. It's a great option there. If you don't mind the drive. Living in the DMV we like the drive, right? The drive is awesome. So this warehouse is around 8,200 square feet. It's got 14 offices that we took down. We left four of them there and had the rest as open space. And it's near several large highways. And the best part is it's right next to WRLC's shared collection facility. So it's very easy to get between the two locations. One thing that we learned there in PG County and for most of the areas around DC is planning, zoning and permits and code enforcement means that takes about six months of paperwork for four weeks of construction. So that's important to keep in mind if you're planning out your schedule. Make sure it's flexible. It all depends on whether somebody's in the office that day or not. Whether something will get done on time. So we started moving in March 2023. And this photo here is part of our storage space. It's a pretty nice open floor plan. You can see everything. We'll speak a little bit more about how this location has impacted our relationship with our collection and what that means for us in the future. I'll speak about that a little bit later. For now we're going to discuss some of the tough things that was actually Paige's job. So I'll turn it over to Paige. Hi everyone. Good afternoon. My name is Paige Wilson. And I'm the Collection Archivist at University. And when I got on campus this process had already been initiated. So I actually jumped in at sort of the end part of the inventory process. So I was learning my job, learning this new project that was already underway and engaging with a new team. Next. We had about four sites. Two on campus and two off that we had to take care of including the shared facility. And so I had to integrate again learning their ways of archiving and recordskeeping and tracking and integrating that into our systems. So there was a lot of in-depth work that had to happen in terms of accessibility and making sure that the inventory was clear and aligned with what they expected before we even could initiate the move. Our use of campus space on campus, these two locations that were on campus were perhaps I mean not even a half or a fourth of the size of our needs. But we had to reassess sort of the processing of everything before it moved off campus and what we were keeping at the warehouse and the shared facility to keep it all organized and aligned. So this was the first piece that we did. Oh sorry, let me jump back for just a moment. There's one other point I wanted to make. No, not that far, sorry. I did want to show you this picture. This is the shared facility. I don't know if you've seen it before but this is actually a true picture of where our records are and you can see how high it is. So it really does require a forklift to get all the way up to the top if you need to retrieve something or put something up there. So it's a pretty cool facility. Thanks. Next. So initially this is what we found when we came on. When I came on campus anyway, this is what I walked into. These were the resources that were available to me. And on campus we had these kinds of files. This is a reading room and you can see it's definitely not been inventoryed. I mean there were just things kind of everywhere. There was no spreadsheet. When I came in and I opened a drawer it was just really untouched for so long. There were paper filing systems and nothing was electronic. So it took quite a lot of work. When we realized the scope of it there were only two staff who were really processing any of this. It was just insurmountable for them to kind of take care of the inventory alone. So we had to kind of divide and conquer some of the tasking so that we could make sure that we were able to modernize all of the inventory and we shared the workload. It was pretty interesting. So in the warehouse we had to complete that inventory in those boxes before we moved it. We didn't want to have to re-inventory once we had everything there on those shelves. We wanted to know where it was going and make sure that the barcode was completely aligned. We didn't want to change the location or rework. So some of those files that we had there we had file cabinets, we had artwork which Jim and Gerard have already talked about and furniture. So the same kinds of things that we had to deal with in the warehouse. So the locations needed to be within the same space perhaps four rows of shelving and file cabinets instead of four different rooms which is what we had had at the original location we were moving from. So some of the choices that we made worked initially and some did not. We learned some lessons. Next. The second priority, going to the shared facility, this was really about, I think this was a little bit faster. There were a lot of complaints that we heard from stakeholders about not being able to access some of these resources and we really had to beg everyone's patience and understanding because we had to really be diligent with our process to make sure that we had everything documented properly. So we used Alma at the SCF and LMS. So we had some things that were already taken care of. They were already digitized. They were already there. That was perfect. But we could email a box back and forth which was great. But emailing back and forth for five years, nobody really wants to do that. So all of the new barcodes that we created on the new boxes had to be put into Alma and we had to create several thousand bibliographic entries for all of these and so that was just a minimum of we had to get the title, the author and put all of these things in the barcodes and it was just a very labor intensive process. But we wanted to make sure we had that all preserved and closed and no one could see all these things when they were completed. So we created a catalog for all of them and then we were able to close everything up and prepare it for movement. And the public view had to be put on hold for now because we had to complete our inventory. So there were over 10,000 items that we had to account for. Some of the largest parts of our collection had up to 450 boxes just in the one piece of the collection. So we had different barcodes and item labels for all of these artifacts and when we created the spreadsheet and used Alma and API to transfer all of these records we were able to upload the barcodes very quickly once we did that pre-work and then it worked very quickly. The transfers were very seamless but all together it was about 10,000 records that we transferred and I think it took us a total of about 4 to 5 months to complete and then once that piece was done then we were ready to set up some circulation desks so that folks could have access again which you know I do thank God that GW University was going through the same thing at the same time because they had a special collection there too with their annual presentations and when I watched their presentation of what they were going through it really helped to give me a point of contact that I could reach out there so we could collaborate and kind of share some lessons learned with GW so that was a real win for us and it was incredibly helpful to go through that with them and once we made some changes to our process based on some things I learned from them we were able to see that there were some specific materials in some boxes if someone needed to make a request for a particular item that was on campus we would give them a time limit of about two business days turnaround for those requests and you can see here that this is two business days for the SCF as well the warehouse we could get you know things on campus perhaps in one business day if we needed to but the turnaround time was typically two business days and people seemed very satisfied with that so I think also I think the mindset was different during COVID anyway so that was working to our favor you know it's not like the prior to COVID when people would be on campus and they would expect immediate access to the resources for their research and other needs so we just continued that process and kind of leveraged that mindset so that we could get the behaviors you know the expectations to that two business days and I think people were more understanding during COVID anyway perhaps so we did get a lot of support from our stakeholders to implement that and then we applied that to the Archives Pass and we uploaded our findings so that we could barcode everything and track everything there too so that it could be searchable any donations that we received or other collections in the same cycle and that same process and of course this process has not been smooth it's not been without its challenges but I think definitely having the courier service supporting us that was a big help the design book between all members of the consortium has also been critical to our success I think knowing what we need to put in the boxes all the collaboration we've been able to leverage with others in the community and then the consortium you know what's the maximum size for a box what if we have to go pick something up and bring you back to campus all that back and forth engagement and dialogue we've made a lot of adjustments as we've gone on and learned a lot but honestly still I think you're never going to avoid some people complaining with the two business days I mean that's just how people are you know but we do the best we can so patrons have mostly been understanding but they don't like to wait so a total of five or six months worth of work and so far I have to say putting the resources that we have in the shared facility in the warehouse all together I think we've it's been almost a year for all of these elements so I'm really happy with the success we've enjoyed in this project so that's my piece turning over to Jim thank you so how's it going now well obviously you can see we've had some challenges along the way but we've tried to convert those challenges into opportunities into how we operate and manage our collection there's some pros and some cons to the current system and go to the next slide so of course as Paige mentioned people who always complain but so far it's been a pretty good job of complaining or turning those complaints into positive changes for our institution and for the community so we encourage that process as we are moving to this new home and our community is very vocal and very supportive of our work as well so we've been pushing hard to make sure that we can get back on campus in a timely manner this has also allowed us to develop a stronger relationship with the consortium with the WRLC so for about 30 years now we've worked in collaboration with them and we have many members on committees related to shared expertise and continuing collections that's CCS right I can't remember the acronym for it it's an acronym of some kind so we're very heavily involved with the consortium's activities and have been for a long time but this is the first time that we've really been in their offices and had like weekly meetings and discussions with them that's really been beneficial to us and to our future with the consortium it's also changed how we operate in a few other ways so as was mentioned there's the two business day turnaround trade off so yes people don't really like that in the past they could come in and say hey I want to see this box of stuff they could get it or go through it for the one specific thing and say oh it looks like there might be something interesting in this other box could you get that one and so we'd say okay sure and we'd retrieve the materials for them so it was just kind of an impulsive type of spur of the moment thing so we had lost that with the two business day turnaround time but at the same time that's helped our researchers become more efficient with their process because they have to plan everything in advance we frequently get researchers from all over the world really we've had researchers from UK, from France, from China Poland, from Poland, right? so all of this had already had to plan for their time in the US they had a really strict itinerary and schedule that they were trying to follow so now all of the researchers have that same experience and that's really caused researchers to become more motivated to do online work or remote virtual work and then to communicate with us before coming to campus so overall that really has improved the experience for the researchers in terms of the impact on staff as I mentioned before the commute is one negative that's one downside I think most everybody has become used to it now at this point but some of the staff have agreements or arrangements based on their work if they don't need to be there on campus on specific days or times they can do some work at our warehouse or telework so that's really a better opportunity for everybody more equitable way of doing things so in terms of the impact on our campus support services as well that has never had our archives off campus before we've had our on-site campus locations and that's been it so far so we have IT people building security and facilities operations that we've had to figure out now if the internet goes out who do we call who manages the custodial services, the cleaning we've gone through a lot of negotiations with that and luckily our campus has also taken that as a learning opportunity so it has been one thing we've been able to spin into a positive it also has had a profound impact on our operations we've become more focused on emerging technologies that will allow us to manage our collection better so archive space to figure out how we can consolidate a lot of our management and archives and records in one place keep that all together at the same time we're also developing new digital repositories that has a heavy focus on video and film as you could assume we have got a lot of deaf individuals on campus at Gallaudet University so the focus is really heavily on basic education both for English and ASL so a lot of our historical documents are actually on video so we're developing a new digital repository that's compatible with that format and in all these different ways that we've prepared our collection for transfer has really improved our understanding of these things so currently there is a donation backlog that won't go away keeps nagging at me we're a number of years behind in that so moving our collection has allowed us to take a look at it in a lot more detail and really think about what we're facing and how we can approach that so the transfer of the archives really helped with that examination process and looking over our collection and thinking about how we can approach our collection in a way that's efficient and successful and the end result is that some items have been donated several times over decades but they're spaced out in time so for example maybe like personal papers of an individual so we've got to think about how we're managing the collection in that way we've got to think about deaccession as well and consolidation and that consolidation process so there's a couple of additional things that we've had to really ask the hard questions about what do we do with these materials where can they live, where should they go, and those sort of things so we really have a broad collection policy that's been in place for about 40 years so we really needed to do a deep dive and audit of our system to understand what sort of intellectual rights we have over the items in this collection and then looking at it also in the broader context of the institution the Gallaudet like many other institutions it goes through cycles of reorganization and restructuring moving and renovation we'd had to move from a location before where all these files had been kept for 30 years and then you know just suddenly we had these 30 years worth of files and they said oh here take it we're out of space so for example in the picture as you see here this is from our registrar's office this is 160 years worth of student records in this collection, 789 boxes and two weeks ago they were like hey can you please take this off our hands, well where can we put it, right? so it really allows us to take a look at how we plan for things and how we use our space in terms of on campus we have to think about what sort of space we want to work in off campus in the warehouse space we used to be spread out in a couple different rooms it was easy to overlook things like mold growth for example now we have one large space where we can see the entire collection if any problems arise we can immediately identify and address it so we wanted to apply those those principles to our new space on campus as well so again if you're thinking about moving your archives don't but if you have to take the opportunity, take these opportunities as they arise alright, any questions? hey question about, you're talking about donations and how you're trying to limit the amount of donations that are coming into your collection, a lot of people who want to donate think that those items are precious because they're theirs but may not have intrinsic value for the future so we need to go to the trash can instead of to a repository to you guys or whatever what types of things did you do to change that and how do you share that with an individual who you say no we don't want that so part of our approach has been a strict policy against unsolicited donations where people freely contact us and say we've got this stuff to donate if they're free to do that we're also free to say no thank you we don't need that or it may be better off at this other place or another collection so we do have a strict screening policy in place and our alumni, we love them, we had our homecoming last week it was so much fun, a lot of people wanted to donate items to us we have six copies of a full run of our year books for example, we don't need more so we're trying to approach it that way with our community and be as transparent as possible with it sometimes people don't know what we already have we don't realize that we already have all these things in the collection and when they realize that they'll say oh okay well that's fine, some people accept that with some people it's not so easy to accept that so typically we'll just say look I can't throw these things away or the person who's donating that will say I can't throw these things away can you dispose of them for me so we'll say okay I guess we'll do that so I think the important thing is just really communication with the community that's the key is just to have that open dialogue and communication any other questions? so if I understand correctly there's a desire to once again have on campus storage how developed are plans on that? well there's an ongoing debate on campus in regards to that we only have so much space available and there's several projects on campus that are on the to-do list but we also need to think about funding as well so the timing early is tough this project took us two years to get to the point where we're actually off campus so this is not something that we can just do spur of the moment or last minute if somebody approaches us and says okay we're ready to break ground next month and like everything can be moved back over we can't just up and do that so we have that risk of having to wait for the funding to come through for the university getting a design breaking ground on the facility and everything being prepared for us to move back in and contract terms are not always extendable so we're a little bit waiting for the university to communicate some decisions to us for the on campus building projects actually last week they did announce that we will be coming back on campus in 2025 and the current building will be renovated and we'll be moving back into it so it seems like we will be moving back to campus and we really do want to be there we love our community we like people coming to speak with us and discuss our items with us has a very large deaf community and many of the individuals here graduated from Gallaudet Frederick Maryland also has the state school for the deaf there and they're a very active community as well so this really is the largest concentration of deaf population in the world so we have a lot of visitors a lot of people coming wanting to chat with us a lot of historians and researchers so we want to be close to our collection and close to our community as well does that make sense great thank you yes over here I have a question about your emergency management protocols how have they changed from being in multiple locations to being in one open location which can be a blessing and a curse when you have all of your items in a large room where everything can be affected can you talk a little bit about the differences and changes that you've made yes sure so we have had a disaster management in place since about 2010 and that's our current plan but we are in the process of updating that to our current spaces Gallaudet University as an institution as well is reevaluating their policies for how we respond to disasters and crises we've got a team responsible for crisis and disaster management on campus as well Jared and I went to the disaster management training at GW this summer through the consortium and we've learned a lot of good information about how you can manage a disaster scene document everything and get that reported and recorded so for that we really want to leave it to the professionals focused on a plan for arriving on the scene and documenting and doing that damage control as soon as possible and then allowing the professionals to take over from that point whether that's the fire departments, police or whatever emergency services and collection care services for example and we have a lot of vendors as well that were in the process of reaching out to and negotiations with that as well. Any other questions? Yes. Have you found that there is one particular collection or a couple collections or a particular type of item that boy you really wish you could have on campus because that's what people you know whether it's researchers or students you have to keep going to time and time again to get information. Yes we've got several high contact collections in our archives one thing people are typically surprised to find out we're often used for genealogical research so we have one collection of papers from schools for the deaf that's the entire history like all of those papers that we have on record that can be really important for people researching family history so we often get requests for that probably on a weekly at least monthly basis. We have our photo collection as well that's a very high use item. People depend very heavily on our historical photos for a variety of reasons and you know classes for research on into deaf history and culture and such. Also I would just add that you know things are you know we're changing as campus is changing so we're trying to keep you know our specific undergraduate catalog you know that's been under revision constantly and we didn't expect that we didn't really kind of plan for that kind of dynamic catalog there with the changes with undergraduate needs so we're trying to be responsive to the changes on campus as well and also we're working to mitigate that through digitization of our larger collections in that way so a lot of things are available online now that reduces the need for things to be kept on campus so that's made our lives easier as well any other questions? Alright well thank you. Alright well yes thank you very much I really want to thank them again this was really a great presentation I really enjoyed hearing from them and so I would like to thank everybody for coming to this second session presentation