 Hi, everyone. Welcome to the first Jenkins Advocacy and Outreach SIG meeting. Actually, we decided to have a meeting in order to discuss how would we collaborate as a special interest group to discuss ongoing projects and how we will press it later. If you're interested to join this call, you can open our Gitter channel and there is a link to the call. So I'll just screen share and here you may find a link. So if you want, you just follow it and join the call to discuss it. And we also have a public meeting notes. You will be updating them for each meeting. So for example, here's a this meeting and when we have next meeting, you can just propose your topics here and we will make sure to discuss them. So that's the plan. It's pretty similar to all other special interest groups. But yeah, since it's the first meeting, maybe we should do some introductions before we press it. Okay, you have a few people on the call. Liam, would you like to introduce yourself? Sure. My name is Liam Newman. I'm a technical evangelist for Jenkins at working at CloudBees and I'm part of the sort of the organizing group for this SIG to have us start talking about all of the advocacy and outreach efforts in one place so we can coordinate better. Yeah. Thank you. Mark? Yes, my name is Marky Jackson. I am one of the participants of this. I'm also a lead but that doesn't mean a lot just yet. I work for SISTIG as a software engineer. I am also the maintainer of a few different Jenkins plugins and I've been a part of the community for quite a while. Cool. Thank you. And yeah, we have Mr. Jenkins on the call. I assume it's Rick. What do you? I don't know why my picture is Dickinson. Because you were probably on YouTube outside of this in the Jenkins account and now here it transfers but don't worry about it. It's no big deal. Yep. Okay. Hello. I'm Rick. I'm from China. I'm a software engineer. I'm also a Chinese recognition SIG leader. I hope I can bring more people who can involve the Jenkins project. Okay. Thank you. Thank you too. Over the last year, there was a lot of activities around the Chinese Jenkins community. There was WeChat started. There is also a C&J Jenkins IO website and yeah, this community expands a lot. So yeah, thanks a lot to Rick for joining this special interest group. And yeah, just to introduce myself, my name is Alekden Nashev. I'm also a co-founder of this special interest group just to provide some historical information. Actually, we started discussing outreach special interest group and Liam was talking about advocacy special interest group and after several iterations, we actually decided that it might be better to just have one special interest group for everything. So here we are. And yeah, there is a lot of activities in this special interest group and the idea of the first meeting is just to think of how we press it forward and how we collaborate and to set up a framework like regular meetings. So maybe we could switch to the agenda. Okay. Do you see my screen? Yes. Okay. Thank you. So yeah, I put a few items in the agenda and then others also added them. So effectively, we have quite a list for today. Not sure whether we will go through everything, but if not, we will just schedule the next meeting and speaking off. Well, my question to you guys is how often do we want to have meetings and what would be the time frame? Rick, I'm sorry. I muted you. So just unmute yourself. Well, I think that we're in a little bit of a mixed position here because there's at least a few people that should be part of this meeting that are not going to be able to give part that aren't here right now and would need to talk about when the next meeting would be good for that. Yeah. So I believe the next meeting would definitely happen after Fosdom. Actually, when I was scheduling this meeting, I assumed that it's still okay to do it on Thursday, but apparently no. So sorry about that. But yeah, maybe we could schedule another meeting in two weeks and come there. Yeah, I think that would be good. Maybe even schedule one for next week. I don't know. I guess two weeks works. Yeah, I can do next week as well if needed. Okay. So yeah, I'll probably just start a little then. Okay. And yeah, generally the interval of the meetings in six, we usually do two, yeah, in the most of six, we do meetings every month or every two weeks, except JSOC where we have meetings every week now. So here, yeah, I think that meetings every week is generally too much pressure, but maybe two weeks would be a good interval or maybe one month. I think two weeks is about right. A month is a long enough time that we would, a lot of stuff would fall through the cracks. Yeah. Actually, yeah, we could use a time slot for JEP office hours. So Liam drives JEPs. Yeah. And I'm actually going to sort of shut that down or get it or move it into something where it it's more of a community time anyways. So that specific time slot is going to open up. Yeah, I was just thinking about that because here we could be spending some time maybe each call to discuss JEPs. But yeah, I think that's what that's worth doing. If needed. I mean, it's worth, it's worth, this would be the place to discuss those things, right? Yeah. Yeah. And maybe another question is about time zones, because yeah, if we do our advocacy and outreach, and since we're interested in growing communities worldwide, whether it's fine to have a meeting at approximately this time or whether we need, maybe we need to have two meetings and just to have meetings in one time zone and then in another time zone. Maybe a shorter meeting and alternate every week. So we basically have a meeting every week, but it alternates back and forth, right? Yeah. Something like that. Something we started experimenting with in the Kubernetes community is also having a sort of like an APAC time for meetings. We actually started that last night when we had one. I'm in the Pacific time zone, so we added it at eight o'clock at night. That doesn't probably work for everybody, but it's something we can experiment with. Yeah. Yeah, I would definitely vote for that. And what would be your opinion, Rick? I hope we could have a switching time, though. Yeah. So I think that we can just agree to that we do something like that. And yeah, then we should start to separate the doodles. So that, yeah, we agree on the time slots for each meeting separately. And then, yeah, maybe just keep doing two meetings. So it would be something like US, Europe, and APAC, Europe, late US. Something like that, right? Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. So Liam usually participates in configuration as code meetings. Yeah. So yeah, I would just think that it could be an option part. So yeah, I'll just create the doodles then. Yeah. Okay. The next topic is about staff and community advocacy outreach interaction. So since we don't have a trace on the call, maybe we should postpone it. Yeah, I think so. And I think it's worth having her as part of that discussion, definitely. Yeah. There was, yeah, actually the discussion already started in the chat, so we can just continue in a synchronous mode. And by the next meeting, once we have questions, we just discuss that. Okay. So yeah, we postpone that. Okay. Yeah, actually we have a bunch of items there. So speaking of JSOC, yeah, I'll just do a quick update because not everybody on the call actually participates in JSOC meetings. So we are rolling towards the application phase. The deadline for applications is February 6th, so it's next week. But actually we applied two weeks ago, so everything is in place. We have all the documentation. We have all the applications. And yeah, we continuously improve our framework. So the site was completely at work according to the feedback from this year. And the application also addressed a lot of the feedback you have. And the results of the JSOC Mentor Summit. So it seems to be good. And it especially looks to be good in terms of project ideas. So last time I counted it was 24 project ideas and 27 mentors. And it's counting. Yeah. So it's bigger than 2006 and 2018 JSOCs all together. And yeah, actually I have some ideas about this particular special interest group. So yeah, definitely we are ready to apply. There is a lot of special interest groups involved. We have projects for platform seek, for cloud native seek, there are also remoteing projects. There is pipeline authoring projects, for example, pipeline documentation generator, et cetera. And yeah, some projects which are not currently mapped to special interest groups. But we will be, we will try to map every project just to have mastic holders for each project. And speaking of advocacy and outreach, one of the topics I actually wanted to propose to think about. Yeah, I was thinking about a platform for online hackathons. So last year we had a number of online hackathons and they went pretty well in terms of experience. And actually I would be interested to have a kind of platform which would allow to do it easily and which would allow to get information easily. So there is, there are some platforms like open source challenge. Yeah, something like that. So it's just an open source platform which allows managing various hackathons. And effectively for every day, you have just an opportunity to submit the statuses. It's in German, but yeah, generally in whatever language. So probably we could have something like that for Jenkins online hackathons. And today I have a meeting with actually some authors of this platform. And I'll give a try to convince them and maybe we could have a joint JSOC project idea. So my question to you guys is whether it would be interesting to you or whether you would like to try something else. So you're putting this under, you're bringing this under the topic of the GSSE, right? Yeah, right. So my idea is to just have JSOC project idea for that. Because currently we definitely have a lot of projects for Java. But there is some interest to have exotic platforms. Well, exotic in terms of Jenkins ecosystem to attract more students. For example, we were looking for Python projects and we were successful. There is one Python project being published now, same for cshark.net. There is project and yeah, we could have some more for Perl, for Ruby, whatever, so that we can attract people from other sites of communities who do not write Java. So that's what was my idea, actually. Yeah, what I forgot to do is I forgot to do that. So my apologies about that. Okay. Yeah, so I'll just give all of your permissions so that you can just edit this document. Ah, right, okay. Yeah, sorry about that. So yeah, I just think that it could be a good project idea, especially if I'm able to recruit mentors. But let's see. And if anybody else has other ideas, what could be done as a part of this special interest group and what could be helpful to us who outreach to other people, it may be definitely helpful. And of course, we could do a lot of things around Jenkins IO. But Jenkins IO is quite challenging because we need to find a coding project there. So yeah, if you have any ideas, just let me know. I will be happy to add something there to the scope and I will be happy to help with writing our project idea drafts. Jenkins IO is actually anything else. So if you have any tool in mind, for example, for community analytics, which could be helpful for us as a special interest group and for us at the project, we could actually consider doing that. So for example, I'm not sure if you guys went to Grimoire conference. But yeah, there are usually a lot of talks about community metrics there. And the community metrics for Jenkins would be also interesting. Okay. Okay. And I'll probably go quickly. If there is no questions about JSOC, I'll probably press it. Okay. Is there too much background noise from me? It's a little distracting, but I think it's okay. Okay, sorry about that. I believe for this is the only power plug within the walking distance. That's okay. Just fine. Thank you for asking. Okay. Yeah. So what I wanted to talk about contact links. So one of my mini projects I was doing mostly for JSOC as well is to actually introduce metadata for sub projects and special interest groups, like contacts, etc. So on the right side, you may see ConnectLink. And actually, this ConnectLink is being generated from the metadata. So yeah, for each page on Jenkins IO, I tried to have contacts so that whomever visits this page, they may just go to the channel and ask something if they want. And they may be mailing lists if they are specified. Actually, I would like to expand that, for example, in documentation so that when we have use cases, when we have, for example, pipeline documentation, we clear the specified channels which can be used in order to reach out about this particular topic. So I think it could be a good improvement in order to improve visibility of our channel's special interest groups. And actually, one of the things on the top of that and that implemented inheritance. So for example, if you go to a project, let's take this one, Jenkins Remote Monitoring. Here, you may see that there is a link to the GitterChat and there is a link to the mailing list. But actually, these links are not hard coded in the page. So if you open improve this page button, here you may see that actually it's just metadata. So here it's Project Remoting and it takes everything from there. So currently, this engine is supported for project pages and for simple pages. But we could be expanding it to other documentation pages if anybody is interested because it's mostly written in Hamel so that it can be reused everywhere on the website. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, just a minor change, but I think it deserves some time. So the next topic was about onboarding community maintainers. So the story behind it that Marky reached out to me and asked actually how could he contribute in order to help the project running. So I don't recall the idiom Marky used, but yeah. Actually, the question is what we could do to improve the experience. Yeah. So when I originally brought this up, I think I used chop wood, carry water. Right. And what I meant by that is if we have a process by which people can Oh, like I'm gonna meet you. Yeah. Well, it was also. Okay. Everybody still hear me? Yes. Okay. So what I meant by that is having a process by which we can onboard a people to to in maybe not just in the advocacy and outreach community, but in all the cities across the board. However, when I did bring this up, this was pre CDF talk. So I think maybe two things. One, they should be postponed until Tracy can be available. And two, it maybe needs to be postponed until we really understand what the infrastructure of the CDF is going to look like in terms of governing bodies in the process and procedures. Yeah, I think that's probably fair process by which we do that. I mean, I think the simplest thing, of course, is to say, Hey, join, do some stuff. And then, you know, having done some stuff, you can say, Hey, I'd like about like just, you know, we don't have to go too deep into them. But for example, when in the Kubernetes community, which I'm involved in, when you have people come on, you have things like GitHub tags. So we'll say good first issue, right? So helping people to, you know, to really, I want to say less in the learning curve. So but again, I think it's, it's premature to discuss that until we start really forming what what the under the CDF banner is going to look like. Yeah, just to quickly answer this question, actually, we do have new different issues. Our main problem is that some projects use GitHub issues, some projects use Jenkins Jira. But in GitHub projects, there is usually good first issue used in Jira. We have new befriending ticket and it's linked to the from the Jenkins participate page. So yeah, there is a kind of landing page for whomever who wants to contribute. So this page may be far from ideal, but it's a landing page for any kinds of contributions. So for development, there are links. And if you go to write the code, you may see that links to Google Summer of code. But here you may see Jira query for issues, we believe, for a beginner friend. Awesome, awesome. Can you send me the link to that or I'll do I'll search for it. See how user friendly it is. Not the Google Summer of code, but the I pasted it to the meeting notes. And yeah, this page is not ideal. But yeah, if you want to approve it, just go forward to propose a full request. So anything on this website can be managed through both requests. Awesome. Thank you. That was all I have for that topic. Okay, that's good. Anything else about that? Or should we just postpone it until Tracy is available? Yeah, let's let's push that out. Okay, the rest of it. Okay, so let's continue job process. It's also a follow up to Marcus proposal. Actually, I just quick made a quick answer because there is a great presentation by Liam at one. Oh, yeah. It has been presented at one of the Jenkins online meetups. And if I should do it. So, look, you meet yourself for a second again. Yeah. Mark, what was your question? Just how does it work? Not so much how it works in this video was really good, by the way, I did watch that. But when we start to think about like sort of an online entry point for people, this is it would be this video would be something good to to show. Hey, this is how we do the jet process. So what I what I guess if I take it back to the first topic, what I was sort of envisioning is we have a really central document that says as an advocacy and outreach team, here is how you can become involved. And while different SIGs may have different entry points, we can start to sort of link to those entry points. But we're sort of that sort of first face that people see, right? At least that's the way I envision it. That's interesting point. Because in one sense, yes. And in another sense, it's the reverse of that, like the advocacy and outreach, the members of that would be things that people see. But the the group itself is not necessarily the face. I think it's more like the, I think I've thought of it more like the the folks behind the curtain that are like, okay, we're going to do this is the process stuff that we have that needs to happen. Are we these these are the sort of behind the scenes discussions. And the the SIGs are more of the frontline here. You know, if someone's interested in doing a platform work or interested in doing whatever, you know, specific kinds of work, then, you know, pipeline authoring work, then that's the SIGs are more the rest of the SIGs are more what I would expect people to step into first, right, rather than I want to promote Jenkins. But you know, it really isn't like linear. So I agree. I think you could look at it from both. I think you could look at it from both. I also agree with Liam. So for me, of course, our main priority is to improve onboarding experience. So facilitating SIGs, encouraging them to have proper documentation, proper onboarding, and maybe taking a look at this centralized page, just like this participate and contribute organizing events. So that's what we can do. But yeah, maybe we are not exactly the entry point for communication everywhere. We just need to provide these ways and ensure that these ways are actually active and available contributors. I agree with that. And I agree with you also, Liam. But having to put this in the way, I also would say it definitely good to have a landing page in a clear way that we say, okay, here's what kind of sort of a menu like it's sort of like the participate page, but you know, clean that up a little bit more, make it a little bit more streamlined, I don't know exactly how yet, but to kind of make that menu not continue to grow and grow, but more sort of guide a little more guided than the way it is right now. I agree. I agree. And of course, also, you know, at the point with the CDF coming on, the JEP process may need to change and adjust to deal with that aspect too. So we'll see what happens with that. Yeah, a lot of what we're, you know, talking about and planning on will probably change in a certain percentage as that CDF process is formulated. Yeah, so even now there are some obvious changes in coming. For example, the CDF defines a technical steering committee. And the most probably we won't have BDFL or yeah, at least the domain may change. So even when BDFL wasn't reduced, we were discussing that it's temporary until we have a technical steering committee. And if CDF organizes that, maybe it will be the first changes. Okay. Well, it's quite chaotic there. Sorry. No problem. Okay. Any other questions, comments about JEP? None to me. Okay. So let's switch to the agenda from Rick. And yeah, the first topic is what's the duty of the press contact. So just to provide some context, we have a number of press contacts, at least on Jenkins cyber press. So this page, which actually describes what is Jenkins, what is Braindian, etc. And if you scroll long enough, you see that there are all the results, a list of press contacts in different regions. So yeah, there are US press contacts, UCCs, and also China press contacts. So Rick has submitted a request to become a China press contact maybe a few weeks ago. This request was approved at governance meeting and now it's here. So yeah, and the reasonable question about actually the responsibilities. So yeah, I can probably try to explain my understanding since I'm a press contact. Yeah. Again, these contacts, yeah, when we have CDF likely is going to change somehow. Or maybe not. Let's see. Because CDF also implies that there will be outreach board. I do not recall the correct name, but yeah, there will be also a board of people responsible for marketing, etc. And likely they may become press contacts. But now what we do here, we put our email in public. And sometimes there are requests incoming for various comments or for various contributions. Actually, I receive maybe one email per month, maybe even less. So it's not a high traffic. And usually these emails are about helping something to happen in the Jenkins community, usually release of a particular issue, etc. So I have received only a few requests for comments, etc. as a press contact. But I believe Kiki and Tyler actually receive much more of such requests than me. So technically, I'm just in standby mode and I answer whatever Jenkins related communication which lands in my inbox. Yeah, so I'm not sure whether it's a good answer. But yeah. I think it's fine. Sorry, continue. Go ahead. I think it's fine. You mentioned the press contacts, maybe they are changed after the CDF. Yeah, because yeah, so CDF, there is a kind of, maybe you remember the correct name. So there is technical steering committee and another committee which focuses on marketing. There's a marketing committee, yeah. Yeah, marketing committee. So yeah. It's more like a marketing committee. It's hard to say. I believe we still need to get more clarity on the CDF. But yeah, in the future, I believe some bits of that could be addressed by CDF. Yeah, the actual charters probably came out in the next few weeks, I believe. So we'll know more shortly. Yeah, right. But yeah, again, it's not a high traffic. And even if you're not listed on this page, there are so many ways to find your email and people usually start reaching out anyway. So yeah, that's how it happens. And yeah. So the sub question was where can I get the detail of Jenkins User Conference? Could you clarify what it means, Rick? As far as I know, we have a Jenkins User Conference for China, but who has a qualification to host that kind of conference? I can't find any introduction or information about this. Yeah, so how it happens? We have an events officer. It's Alisa Tong. And effectively she would be the entry point for such requests. If you're interested about user conferences, the results are approved trademark usage. And I believe China is listed here. Yeah, so here you may see that there is Jenkins User Conference China. So this approved trademark usage, you may see which company has requested that. And definitely you could reach out to Alisa and just ask for contracts. And I can probably help you so that because I do have contracts. But yeah, maybe it still makes sense to reach out to Alisa. Yeah, so if I want to host a conference, I need to reach out to the event officer. Well, the event officer can just help you this because if you want to organize a conference, most likely you will need stickers, various giveaways. And Alisa is contacting the community for that. So yeah, the government may want to host Jenkins User Conference. Okay, in China, right? Yeah. So one of the ways would be to, so just let's take it as an example. So hosting a conference is definitely not a problem. So the problem is that there is Jenkins User Conference China trademark. And yeah, you can just submit a request in the Jenkins developer client list. And I ask for approval to use this trademark. But in such case, since there is already a company, we should request that. Obviously, we will add the request to CC and we will ask them for the feedback. If they do not find, we will just approve the same name, I guess. And you will be able to use that. And so this is about the naming and about the organization. Any conference is great. Thanks a lot for the interest of your company to do that. And yeah, we will be able to help and Alisa can help a lot with that because she knows speakers. She knows other contacts in China and she will be able to help these delivery of whatever promotion materials. Okay. My another point is through the way to write something down about this. About what? You mean as a JEP? Maybe JEP, maybe other things. So you just guidelines for organizing the Jenkins events? Yes. So actually we have these guidelines for Jenkins area meetups, but not for conferences, I believe. Yes. That's my point. Yeah. So, yeah, we should probably have it written down and it also is. But I think with the conferences, it's not so much of a one size fits all kind of process. There's a lot more variables to deal with. So we can probably outline it, but it's going to be an outline rather than like a really detailed document. Is that fair? Yeah. I think it's right, but we could still have a kind of entry point for that. Yeah. So something like that. Organize your Jenkins conference. Right. Again, it may somehow interact with CDF because since CDF is a part of Linux Foundation and Linux Foundation organizes conferences worldwide, maybe there will be some overlap. But yeah, I don't expect that CDF takes monopoly to organize conferences. And I believe that we will be still able to organize. Everybody else will be still able to organize conferences. So yeah, I think that we could try writing something. So I'm not sure how to proceed there. We could actually ask Alisa to provide these guidelines or maybe try to writing something on our own. What would be the next steps? I think the next step would definitely be putting, at least making this request on the Jenkins CI dev list. We can ask Alisa, but her time is getting more limited currently. So it might be something where we need to have someone in the community write it up or max or something. Yeah. I mean, there's just hope there's a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. So Rick, would you be able to do that? Me? Yeah. Just to start the discussion. Oh, I can try to do this. Yeah. And this is just write up an email asking the question about, hey, can we get some documentation? Can I get some help and can we get some documentation? Yes, I got it. Just start the discussion in the DV mailing list. Yep. That's right. Thank you. And yeah, the government, the last item, he is who and when we'll handle the ambassador applications. So generally ambassador program is sponsored. So there is a job for that. And the sponsor? Yeah, I found the, but I can't find my answer. Yeah. So yeah, this is also something that needs to be discussed in the context of CDF. So the job exists, which, and it obviously needs some detail, but I don't know that we want to, there's within the next month, we should get at least more of a sense of what's going on here. Yeah. So technically, we can say that ambassador applications are on hold right now until we have clarity. Yeah. The question is, once we join the CDF, we still have do you consider ambassador or CDF ambassador? That's the question that needs to be answered exactly. Yeah. We don't know. The short answer is we honestly don't know. Yeah, right. So I can just provide someone said that since I'm a Jenkins ambassador, yeah, actually, yeah, there are some events happening in this area, but not that many. So my idea was actually to invite all ambassadors to advocacy and outreach seek just to have an opportunity to discuss, to have a venue for discussions today. So maybe you can partially make it open even if you're not officially an ambassador. At least that's my idea for now. And then we, if ambassador program is cancelled, okay, we still have a special interest group. If it's replaced by CDF, then you will find a way to transition. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So it was the last topic in the agenda. Would you like to discuss anything else? Well, I mean, I think we've covered our time slot, right? Yeah, I scheduled 45 minutes time slot, but usually schedule and keep in mind that it may be extended if needed. Okay. Yeah, but yeah, 45 minutes is the time slot scheduled. Cool. Yeah. So we have several action items. And yeah, I'll start a doodle in order to schedule next meetings. So let's try to do the next meeting, maybe in one or two weeks in the park time zone and then one week after in the US time zone. Well, yeah, probably the naming is not correct, but yeah. Yeah. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah. Okay, then that's cool. And thanks to everybody for participating. Yeah, we have a lot of topics to discuss. And we still need to just set up a framework of the special interest group. But it's great that we finally have it because yeah, we have a venue for such discussions. Indeed. Actually, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you all. Okay, thank you. Thank you, everybody. Yeah, thank you. Bye.